200 council jobs face axe (From Daily Echo)

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Quite Frankly wrote:
I don't think we need any lessons from Royston, do we?

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

bigfella777 wrote:
How can temporary staff have worked for the council for 7 years? It shows you how inept these degree jockeys are.
I bet you if you got all the manual workers to run the civic centre and bombed all those limp wristed spongers out to do a bit of graft, things would improve.

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Georgem wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

You have figures to back this claim up, I presume.

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

Graeme Harrison wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

If they've been employed for a continuous period in excess of 2 years by SCC, they're entitled to redundancy payments.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Independent Thought wrote:
Unfortunately losing 200 temporary staff only makes a small dent in the overall £42m deficit.

My fear is that there will be a lot more jobs that will need to go in order to balance the books.

We will see the true scale of the cuts when the 2013/14 budget comes out for consultation later this year.

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

That's far from the only difference. Do these agency workers get holiday and sick pay from the end client? Is the council paying employers NI contributions on them? What about employer liability insurance? Do they get pensions? Do they get health insurance? What is the HR expenditure per capita? How much time do they spend doing non-work activities, such as meetings with line managers to discuss career options and objectives?

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

That's far from the only difference. Do these agency workers get holiday and sick pay from the end client? Is the council paying employers NI contributions on them? What about employer liability insurance? Do they get pensions? Do they get health insurance? What is the HR expenditure per capita? How much time do they spend doing non-work activities, such as meetings with line managers to discuss career options and objectives?

The Contracting agency gets NI from the contractors, as Sick benefit and holiday leave that become part of the agreement contract some will and some will not all will depend on the job.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

Southy, you are still yet to demonstrate HOW the TUSC would achieve all of this. All you've ever come up with is a few vague definitions of words like 'cuts'. What's needed - and impossible for you to obtain, let alone provide - are solid numbers to back your claim. Without that, it's empty promises all the way down.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

That's far from the only difference. Do these agency workers get holiday and sick pay from the end client? Is the council paying employers NI contributions on them? What about employer liability insurance? Do they get pensions? Do they get health insurance? What is the HR expenditure per capita? How much time do they spend doing non-work activities, such as meetings with line managers to discuss career options and objectives?

The Contracting agency gets NI from the contractors, as Sick benefit and holiday leave that become part of the agreement contract some will and some will not all will depend on the job.

So you agree that redundancy payments are not the only difference. Thanks.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

That's far from the only difference. Do these agency workers get holiday and sick pay from the end client? Is the council paying employers NI contributions on them? What about employer liability insurance? Do they get pensions? Do they get health insurance? What is the HR expenditure per capita? How much time do they spend doing non-work activities, such as meetings with line managers to discuss career options and objectives?

The Contracting agency gets NI from the contractors, as Sick benefit and holiday leave that become part of the agreement contract some will and some will not all will depend on the job.

So you agree that redundancy payments are not the only difference. Thanks.

No but they are the biggest differences and the most costliest.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

Southy, you are still yet to demonstrate HOW the TUSC would achieve all of this. All you've ever come up with is a few vague definitions of words like 'cuts'. What's needed - and impossible for you to obtain, let alone provide - are solid numbers to back your claim. Without that, it's empty promises all the way down.

No empty promises we are not into those, I don't know if it still there but it was expained in the City TUSC manifest web site, probley would have to search for it very deep now.
any way you sustain the job levels the local economy would start to stable, you add jobs and the local economy would improve, Cut jobs and wages then the local economy will suffer more and take a fall.
Its jobs that will improve or slump the economy less there are unemployed more people will spend in the economy, the more unemployed the less is spent in a economy.
And as the Right Wing Political partys are hell bent on cutting services, wages and jobs will result only in one thing a bigger dip in the economy.

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Similarly, I and many others, were saying that the money spent on Royston's White Elephant would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely involve cuts.

How many paying customers visited yesterday?

My betting is that they did not cover the running costs.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

That's far from the only difference. Do these agency workers get holiday and sick pay from the end client? Is the council paying employers NI contributions on them? What about employer liability insurance? Do they get pensions? Do they get health insurance? What is the HR expenditure per capita? How much time do they spend doing non-work activities, such as meetings with line managers to discuss career options and objectives?

The Contracting agency gets NI from the contractors, as Sick benefit and holiday leave that become part of the agreement contract some will and some will not all will depend on the job.

So you agree that redundancy payments are not the only difference. Thanks.

No but they are the biggest differences and the most costliest.

Costliest to whom?

loosehead wrote:

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Similarly, I and many others, were saying that the money spent on Royston's White Elephant would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely involve cuts.

How many paying customers visited yesterday?

My betting is that they did not cover the running costs.

Can't you get it through you're thick head the Sea City Museum had sweet B+ggar all to do with pay cuts or job losses.
the Sea city Museum was built on funding from the Lottery & other grant organisations & from selling Millbrook industrial estate.
the wage cuts were for a year on year ( continuos) cut in expenditure so stop the hell bringing that red herring into the argument

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

loosehead wrote:

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Similarly, I and many others, were saying that the money spent on Royston's White Elephant would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely involve cuts.

How many paying customers visited yesterday?

My betting is that they did not cover the running costs.

Can't you get it through you're thick head the Sea City Museum had sweet B+ggar all to do with pay cuts or job losses.
the Sea city Museum was built on funding from the Lottery & other grant organisations & from selling Millbrook industrial estate.
the wage cuts were for a year on year ( continuos) cut in expenditure so stop the hell bringing that red herring into the argument

loosehead wrote:
Can't you see the left now squirming?
Under the Tory councils wages for those over £17,500 later revised in negotiations to those over £22,000 would take pay cuts starting at 2% going up to 5.5% the same rate the Tory & Liberal councillors took in a pay cut.
the whole reason was to secure weekly bin collections & save jobs.
We heard our Leader say 1-10 refuse jobs to go & fortnightly collections then he accused the Echo of lying?
We warned you then Workers beware but were called all sorts of names.
Royston made no lies he said a figure of job losses which would be made up by temps & voluntary redundancies & then after negotiations with the unions A figure agreed with unions of compulsory redundancies was said.
At no time did he say no redundancies did he?
You have all been lead up the garden path by the Labour Party & the Unions.
Refuse workers if you haven't voted yet then I hope you see you've been conned & vote against the Union & council proposal & get another Union officer(s).
I can see this being far worse as Williams did say 1,500 permanent posts would go on top of Temporary posts so this is the tip of the Iceberg.

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Similarly, I and many others, were saying that the money spent on Royston's White Elephant would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely involve cuts.

How many paying customers visited yesterday?

My betting is that they did not cover the running costs.

Can't you get it through you're thick head the Sea City Museum had sweet B+ggar all to do with pay cuts or job losses.
the Sea city Museum was built on funding from the Lottery & other grant organisations & from selling Millbrook industrial estate.
the wage cuts were for a year on year ( continuos) cut in expenditure so stop the hell bringing that red herring into the argument

No need to be abusive. I know that it is not pleasant when you are reminded of mistakes made by the administration that you supported but, whether you like it or not, the Sea City Museum was NOT (R) WHOLLY FUNDED BY A LOTTERY GRANT & OTHERS.

As with all other lottery grants, the recipients have to put up a percentage of the cost of what has to be funded, and no Royston's Folly was no exception.

Royston did the deal, leaving those that followed him to pay the price, and what we are seing now is part of the price that has to be paid.

You constantly bellyache about Labour leaving a note to say that there was no money in the safe.

Royston did not even leave a note.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Can't you see the left now squirming?
Under the Tory councils wages for those over £17,500 later revised in negotiations to those over £22,000 would take pay cuts starting at 2% going up to 5.5% the same rate the Tory & Liberal councillors took in a pay cut.
the whole reason was to secure weekly bin collections & save jobs.
We heard our Leader say 1-10 refuse jobs to go & fortnightly collections then he accused the Echo of lying?
We warned you then Workers beware but were called all sorts of names.
Royston made no lies he said a figure of job losses which would be made up by temps & voluntary redundancies & then after negotiations with the unions A figure agreed with unions of compulsory redundancies was said.
At no time did he say no redundancies did he?
You have all been lead up the garden path by the Labour Party & the Unions.
Refuse workers if you haven't voted yet then I hope you see you've been conned & vote against the Union & council proposal & get another Union officer(s).
I can see this being far worse as Williams did say 1,500 permanent posts would go on top of Temporary posts so this is the tip of the Iceberg.

Labour is not left they are as right wing as the torys, Torys said they would save 400 jobs but what they did not tell you was that there would still be around 1,500 job loses, there was only 1 million difference in savings for each year over the next 4 years between Labour and Torys, The torys was going to do the hit as quickly as they could, Labour was going to do it slowly but at a very small amount less cost

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

So where does Fascism sit?

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

So where does Fascism sit?

Extreme far right wing and you all ready know that.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

So where does Fascism sit?

Extreme far right wing and you all ready know that.

southy wrote:
Another thing about Right wing aka Capitalism its a War monger Machine.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:
Another thing about Right wing aka Capitalism its a War monger Machine.

For goodness sake, southy, this is comic book rhetoric.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:
Another thing about Right wing aka Capitalism its a War monger Machine.

For goodness sake, southy, this is comic book rhetoric.

thats why its being going lately, the envy of another country wealth. and why the uk is involved in 2 wars, and causing proplems for other world governments that will not play ball. its capitalism rhetoric

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy,

Some time it is difficult to follow your logic.

Just because some people may not belong to certain group does not make them capitalist ultra right or fascist. Winding people on this site is one thing but the real life is too complex.

Even cowboy President Bush practised so called socialist system while trying to save capitalism when he poured billions to save some American Banks, which is contradiction of principles of ‘free market’ the mantra of capitalism. Under Thatcher Rolls Royce was nationalised. Originally even water was not nationalised by any Labour or socialist government. Should we as socialists have opposed that??????? I hope not.

Haven’t you ever thought of super rich believers in capitalism who were killed by fascist Hitler because they were Jews?

Please do not try to tell me that Churchill was not a capitalist; but he led historic fight against most obnoxious form of fascism of that monster Hitler’s Nazis.

Basic issue on this thread is financial problem of local government. Your answer to those should be to question the policies of last few decades, how local authorities have been financially penalised by central government.

Over the years governments of all three main parties have kept on pushing more and more responsibilities upon local authorities but have not only kept on decreasing national share of contribution they have also been capping the amount councils can raise through Council Tax.

That basic problem needs challenging in an organised manner. Most if not all the Councils should get together to demand resources from Central Govt. At one time Labour preached that, but when Liverpool and Lewisham etc tried to act the Party led by Kinnock turned upon them, because powerful press was becoming hysterical about ‘Reds Under Beds’ and Trotskyite Militant Tendency threat to the country.

Basically TUSC is saying no different than what Labour originally preached, that was before likes of Blunket decided to ‘skate on thin ice’ and betrayed all those who wanted to secure proper funding from Central government.

Once again the real issue is starting to be sidelined because of sectarian nature of many who do not want to touch TUSC because there are too many members of your Socialist Party in it. In fairness I must also say that some if not all members of SP are not exactly helpful because like you they too waste more time on attacking those with whom they may have minor differences (for example you about Greens) than concentrating upon the bigger beasts.

Hardly surprising we are not making much progress, while people are fed up with system that is cutting services and many workers are losing jobs.

Georgem wrote:
So now, southy, you're talking about "different types of capitalism". I thought this was all perfectly simple, as clear as left from right.

bigal007 wrote:
man the line oil drums out they can take are jobs but they cant take are frrreeeeeeeedooooooo

m aw is that a right thing to say

they all lie to get in the spot light we all no who they are may be should them out and let the council be run by the people of southampton !!

bigal007 wrote:
man the line oil drums out they can take are jobs but they cant take are frrreeeeeeeedooooooo

m aw is that a right thing to say

they all lie to get in the spot light we all no who they are may be should them out and let the council be run by the people of southampton !!

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:
So now, southy, you're talking about "different types of capitalism". I thought this was all perfectly simple, as clear as left from right.

Its clear line between Left and Right just like your hands are, and like your hands its has sub groups (sections) your hands have didgets each didget have 3 sections, the same happens in the 2 main political economic and political policy Capitalism and Socialism it get sub-divided extreme far right is Fascism extreme far left its Anarchism.

Independent Thought wrote:

bigal007 wrote:
man the line oil drums out they can take are jobs but they cant take are frrreeeeeeeedooooooo


m aw is that a right thing to say

they all lie to get in the spot light we all no who they are may be should them out and let the council be run by the people of southampton !!

Councillors should be Southampton residents as they represent local people and set Council policies.

The Council staff is another thing. Think you would find that loads of the highly paid managers dont even live in the city but live outside it. Maybe they should be city residents as well?

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy,

Some time it is difficult to follow your logic.

Just because some people may not belong to certain group does not make them capitalist ultra right or fascist. Winding people on this site is one thing but the real life is too complex.

Even cowboy President Bush practised so called socialist system while trying to save capitalism when he poured billions to save some American Banks, which is contradiction of principles of ‘free market’ the mantra of capitalism. Under Thatcher Rolls Royce was nationalised. Originally even water was not nationalised by any Labour or socialist government. Should we as socialists have opposed that??????? I hope not.

Haven’t you ever thought of super rich believers in capitalism who were killed by fascist Hitler because they were Jews?

Please do not try to tell me that Churchill was not a capitalist; but he led historic fight against most obnoxious form of fascism of that monster Hitler’s Nazis.

Basic issue on this thread is financial problem of local government. Your answer to those should be to question the policies of last few decades, how local authorities have been financially penalised by central government.

Over the years governments of all three main parties have kept on pushing more and more responsibilities upon local authorities but have not only kept on decreasing national share of contribution they have also been capping the amount councils can raise through Council Tax.

That basic problem needs challenging in an organised manner. Most if not all the Councils should get together to demand resources from Central Govt. At one time Labour preached that, but when Liverpool and Lewisham etc tried to act the Party led by Kinnock turned upon them, because powerful press was becoming hysterical about ‘Reds Under Beds’ and Trotskyite Militant Tendency threat to the country.

Basically TUSC is saying no different than what Labour originally preached, that was before likes of Blunket decided to ‘skate on thin ice’ and betrayed all those who wanted to secure proper funding from Central government.

Once again the real issue is starting to be sidelined because of sectarian nature of many who do not want to touch TUSC because there are too many members of your Socialist Party in it. In fairness I must also say that some if not all members of SP are not exactly helpful because like you they too waste more time on attacking those with whom they may have minor differences (for example you about Greens) than concentrating upon the bigger beasts.

Hardly surprising we are not making much progress, while people are fed up with system that is cutting services and many workers are losing jobs.

throwing a few bones of socialism for the people is only to keep them quiet, like in bush case if he did not do that at the time would of been roits all over the USA and the whole banking system would of totally collapse where people would off been with drawing all there money from the banks all capitalism will do this just to save there necks, and don't forget the Bush Family are from bankers, it was J, Bush who help Hitler to be finance, Hitler was a capitalist as was churchill just 2 different types of capitalism.
I have no problem with Socialist Greens they are trying to do the right thing and that is a green policy where all will benefit, under the greens it the Capialist that will benefit.
Was it not you who was having a dig at Keith when Williams got Keith to lie for him about the reason why he resigned from the cabinet job.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:
So now, southy, you're talking about "different types of capitalism". I thought this was all perfectly simple, as clear as left from right.

Its clear line between Left and Right just like your hands are, and like your hands its has sub groups (sections) your hands have didgets each didget have 3 sections, the same happens in the 2 main political economic and political policy Capitalism and Socialism it get sub-divided extreme far right is Fascism extreme far left its Anarchism.

Yawn. I shan't even bother reading these posts any more, southy. I've just explained to you, in this very thread, why that view is inadequate.

Georgem wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

You have figures to back this claim up, I presume.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy,

Some time it is difficult to follow your logic.

Just because some people may not belong to certain group does not make them capitalist ultra right or fascist. Winding people on this site is one thing but the real life is too complex.

Even cowboy President Bush practised so called socialist system while trying to save capitalism when he poured billions to save some American Banks, which is contradiction of principles of ‘free market’ the mantra of capitalism. Under Thatcher Rolls Royce was nationalised. Originally even water was not nationalised by any Labour or socialist government. Should we as socialists have opposed that??????? I hope not.

Haven’t you ever thought of super rich believers in capitalism who were killed by fascist Hitler because they were Jews?

Please do not try to tell me that Churchill was not a capitalist; but he led historic fight against most obnoxious form of fascism of that monster Hitler’s Nazis.

Basic issue on this thread is financial problem of local government. Your answer to those should be to question the policies of last few decades, how local authorities have been financially penalised by central government.

Over the years governments of all three main parties have kept on pushing more and more responsibilities upon local authorities but have not only kept on decreasing national share of contribution they have also been capping the amount councils can raise through Council Tax.

That basic problem needs challenging in an organised manner. Most if not all the Councils should get together to demand resources from Central Govt. At one time Labour preached that, but when Liverpool and Lewisham etc tried to act the Party led by Kinnock turned upon them, because powerful press was becoming hysterical about ‘Reds Under Beds’ and Trotskyite Militant Tendency threat to the country.

Basically TUSC is saying no different than what Labour originally preached, that was before likes of Blunket decided to ‘skate on thin ice’ and betrayed all those who wanted to secure proper funding from Central government.

Once again the real issue is starting to be sidelined because of sectarian nature of many who do not want to touch TUSC because there are too many members of your Socialist Party in it. In fairness I must also say that some if not all members of SP are not exactly helpful because like you they too waste more time on attacking those with whom they may have minor differences (for example you about Greens) than concentrating upon the bigger beasts.

Hardly surprising we are not making much progress, while people are fed up with system that is cutting services and many workers are losing jobs.

throwing a few bones of socialism for the people is only to keep them quiet, like in bush case if he did not do that at the time would of been roits all over the USA and the whole banking system would of totally collapse where people would off been with drawing all there money from the banks all capitalism will do this just to save there necks, and don't forget the Bush Family are from bankers, it was J, Bush who help Hitler to be finance, Hitler was a capitalist as was churchill just 2 different types of capitalism.
I have no problem with Socialist Greens they are trying to do the right thing and that is a green policy where all will benefit, under the greens it the Capialist that will benefit.
Was it not you who was having a dig at Keith when Williams got Keith to lie for him about the reason why he resigned from the cabinet job.

Yes I did and still stand by what I wrote about local NuLabourites planning and telling whoppers over Keith Morrell's resignation and also fully supporting same Keith on his stand taken over Oaklands Pool.

That is why I am saying real life is complex, and why you should avoid narrowing everything thing into us Vs them. Or into capitalism, fascism and socialism.

You have admirable knowledge and always willing to put in lots of work, but I feel you tend to sometimes spoil that by being over defensive. Those who have found this in you are obviously taking advantage of this..

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy,

Some time it is difficult to follow your logic.

Just because some people may not belong to certain group does not make them capitalist ultra right or fascist. Winding people on this site is one thing but the real life is too complex.

Even cowboy President Bush practised so called socialist system while trying to save capitalism when he poured billions to save some American Banks, which is contradiction of principles of ‘free market’ the mantra of capitalism. Under Thatcher Rolls Royce was nationalised. Originally even water was not nationalised by any Labour or socialist government. Should we as socialists have opposed that??????? I hope not.

Haven’t you ever thought of super rich believers in capitalism who were killed by fascist Hitler because they were Jews?

Please do not try to tell me that Churchill was not a capitalist; but he led historic fight against most obnoxious form of fascism of that monster Hitler’s Nazis.

Basic issue on this thread is financial problem of local government. Your answer to those should be to question the policies of last few decades, how local authorities have been financially penalised by central government.

Over the years governments of all three main parties have kept on pushing more and more responsibilities upon local authorities but have not only kept on decreasing national share of contribution they have also been capping the amount councils can raise through Council Tax.

That basic problem needs challenging in an organised manner. Most if not all the Councils should get together to demand resources from Central Govt. At one time Labour preached that, but when Liverpool and Lewisham etc tried to act the Party led by Kinnock turned upon them, because powerful press was becoming hysterical about ‘Reds Under Beds’ and Trotskyite Militant Tendency threat to the country.

Basically TUSC is saying no different than what Labour originally preached, that was before likes of Blunket decided to ‘skate on thin ice’ and betrayed all those who wanted to secure proper funding from Central government.

Once again the real issue is starting to be sidelined because of sectarian nature of many who do not want to touch TUSC because there are too many members of your Socialist Party in it. In fairness I must also say that some if not all members of SP are not exactly helpful because like you they too waste more time on attacking those with whom they may have minor differences (for example you about Greens) than concentrating upon the bigger beasts.

Hardly surprising we are not making much progress, while people are fed up with system that is cutting services and many workers are losing jobs.

throwing a few bones of socialism for the people is only to keep them quiet, like in bush case if he did not do that at the time would of been roits all over the USA and the whole banking system would of totally collapse where people would off been with drawing all there money from the banks all capitalism will do this just to save there necks, and don't forget the Bush Family are from bankers, it was J, Bush who help Hitler to be finance, Hitler was a capitalist as was churchill just 2 different types of capitalism.
I have no problem with Socialist Greens they are trying to do the right thing and that is a green policy where all will benefit, under the greens it the Capialist that will benefit.
Was it not you who was having a dig at Keith when Williams got Keith to lie for him about the reason why he resigned from the cabinet job.

Yes I did and still stand by what I wrote about local NuLabourites planning and telling whoppers over Keith Morrell's resignation and also fully supporting same Keith on his stand taken over Oaklands Pool.

That is why I am saying real life is complex, and why you should avoid narrowing everything thing into us Vs them. Or into capitalism, fascism and socialism.

You have admirable knowledge and always willing to put in lots of work, but I feel you tend to sometimes spoil that by being over defensive. Those who have found this in you are obviously taking advantage of this..

yes it is or maybe complex but throwing a few bones in the right direction do not mean that they will do what is right for the majority they just throw those bones to keep majority quiet.
I try to go on what there over all actions are and what they do, this last local elections proves that point to well Smith and Williams trying to be different but there actions are the same, there is no real difference just the way they are going to apply them that is different but the results are the same

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

George4th wrote:

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

The SeaCity Museum is EXCELLENT! Everyone I know who has been to see it has been 100% complimentary! It is TERRIFIC! It's a great building with every modern gizmo you can think of. It gives a wonderful insight into the history of Southampton through photos, videos and artifacts.

It's a shame that many citizens of the City of Southampton were born with a gene that causes whinging, moaning, lethargy, apathy and inertia - much like the Labour Council!
>
I would bet that most Sotonians haven't even been to the SeaCity Museum or many other of Southampton's attractions. Many people have a problem getting away from the TV or the Computer or posting on this website!!

George4th wrote:

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

The SeaCity Museum is EXCELLENT! Everyone I know who has been to see it has been 100% complimentary! It is TERRIFIC! It's a great building with every modern gizmo you can think of. It gives a wonderful insight into the history of Southampton through photos, videos and artifacts.

It's a shame that many citizens of the City of Southampton were born with a gene that causes whinging, moaning, lethargy, apathy and inertia - much like the Labour Council!
>
I would bet that most Sotonians haven't even been to the SeaCity Museum or many other of Southampton's attractions. Many people have a problem getting away from the TV or the Computer or posting on this website!!

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

Over the Edge wrote:
Surely 200 temp staff going and saving permanent staff is better, permanent staff get better pay and conditions, (although temp staff after 6 months with the same employer are entitled to the same conditions) isn't better making room and creating space/positions for permanent staff.

Having in the past worked with some of the temp staff at SCC, I can only say I'm not shocked at this decision, the standard of their work was quite poor and they needed hand holding from permanent staff.

I don't see what the issue or all the fuss is about, cuts needs to be made, if this prevents permanent staff losing their jobs so be it.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

Dresnez wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

No he wrong, left and right matters as much today as it did 100 years ago, Right wing = Capitalism = the support of big business, corporations to squeeze to max out of people and not sharing. Puts money before people and hoards and worship of money and power.
Left Wing = Socialism = the sharing of the wealth, and giving all a bite of the apple. people before money, money being use as its ment to as a tool.

Predictable nonsense.

Not nonsence that is what it is, there is a line that defines Capitalism aka Right Wing and Socialism aka Left wing, its as clear difference between you left and right hand

There used to be but Nu Labour from Blair's time has blurred the boundaries considerably. Now they are all Tories of one sort or another. Unions have stayed nearer to the original Labour views.

Don't matter who you vote for now you get the same policies only with Labour perhaps a little less right wing and that is arguable.

Milliband has said he will not be repealing any Coalition legislation or measures.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy,

Some time it is difficult to follow your logic.

Just because some people may not belong to certain group does not make them capitalist ultra right or fascist. Winding people on this site is one thing but the real life is too complex.

Even cowboy President Bush practised so called socialist system while trying to save capitalism when he poured billions to save some American Banks, which is contradiction of principles of ‘free market’ the mantra of capitalism. Under Thatcher Rolls Royce was nationalised. Originally even water was not nationalised by any Labour or socialist government. Should we as socialists have opposed that??????? I hope not.

Haven’t you ever thought of super rich believers in capitalism who were killed by fascist Hitler because they were Jews?

Please do not try to tell me that Churchill was not a capitalist; but he led historic fight against most obnoxious form of fascism of that monster Hitler’s Nazis.

Basic issue on this thread is financial problem of local government. Your answer to those should be to question the policies of last few decades, how local authorities have been financially penalised by central government.

Over the years governments of all three main parties have kept on pushing more and more responsibilities upon local authorities but have not only kept on decreasing national share of contribution they have also been capping the amount councils can raise through Council Tax.

That basic problem needs challenging in an organised manner. Most if not all the Councils should get together to demand resources from Central Govt. At one time Labour preached that, but when Liverpool and Lewisham etc tried to act the Party led by Kinnock turned upon them, because powerful press was becoming hysterical about ‘Reds Under Beds’ and Trotskyite Militant Tendency threat to the country.

Basically TUSC is saying no different than what Labour originally preached, that was before likes of Blunket decided to ‘skate on thin ice’ and betrayed all those who wanted to secure proper funding from Central government.

Once again the real issue is starting to be sidelined because of sectarian nature of many who do not want to touch TUSC because there are too many members of your Socialist Party in it. In fairness I must also say that some if not all members of SP are not exactly helpful because like you they too waste more time on attacking those with whom they may have minor differences (for example you about Greens) than concentrating upon the bigger beasts.

Hardly surprising we are not making much progress, while people are fed up with system that is cutting services and many workers are losing jobs.

throwing a few bones of socialism for the people is only to keep them quiet, like in bush case if he did not do that at the time would of been roits all over the USA and the whole banking system would of totally collapse where people would off been with drawing all there money from the banks all capitalism will do this just to save there necks, and don't forget the Bush Family are from bankers, it was J, Bush who help Hitler to be finance, Hitler was a capitalist as was churchill just 2 different types of capitalism.
I have no problem with Socialist Greens they are trying to do the right thing and that is a green policy where all will benefit, under the greens it the Capialist that will benefit.
Was it not you who was having a dig at Keith when Williams got Keith to lie for him about the reason why he resigned from the cabinet job.

Yes I did and still stand by what I wrote about local NuLabourites planning and telling whoppers over Keith Morrell's resignation and also fully supporting same Keith on his stand taken over Oaklands Pool.

That is why I am saying real life is complex, and why you should avoid narrowing everything thing into us Vs them. Or into capitalism, fascism and socialism.

You have admirable knowledge and always willing to put in lots of work, but I feel you tend to sometimes spoil that by being over defensive. Those who have found this in you are obviously taking advantage of this..

yes it is or maybe complex but throwing a few bones in the right direction do not mean that they will do what is right for the majority they just throw those bones to keep majority quiet.
I try to go on what there over all actions are and what they do, this last local elections proves that point to well Smith and Williams trying to be different but there actions are the same, there is no real difference just the way they are going to apply them that is different but the results are the same

Yes you have summed up correctly. So please try working with every situation on its own merits or demerits while respecting the fact that others on this site may have their own views or even agenda. Rather than picking upon them all the time try saving your energy for working on real people in your ward.

Dresnez wrote:

George4th wrote:

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

The SeaCity Museum is EXCELLENT! Everyone I know who has been to see it has been 100% complimentary! It is TERRIFIC! It's a great building with every modern gizmo you can think of. It gives a wonderful insight into the history of Southampton through photos, videos and artifacts.

It's a shame that many citizens of the City of Southampton were born with a gene that causes whinging, moaning, lethargy, apathy and inertia - much like the Labour Council!
>
I would bet that most Sotonians haven't even been to the SeaCity Museum or many other of Southampton's attractions. Many people have a problem getting away from the TV or the Computer or posting on this website!!

In the first paragraph you made a very good point.

Pity you spoilt it by insulting all the people from Southamton.

Your rant rather detracts from your valid argument.

Oh and I am not from Southampton.

Dresnez wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Please explain how it costs less if they are paid more, and they agency is not providing temps for nothing, they have overheads to cover and will want to make a good profit.

So please enlighten me as to how they cost the taxpayer less.

Agency workers get little in the way of pension benefits so will require welfare subsidies when they retire so again another cost to the taxpayer.

Using temps instead of permanent staff is a good way of the private sector milking the taxpayer if you ask me, but I may be wrong.

I await your reply/

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:
So now, southy, you're talking about "different types of capitalism". I thought this was all perfectly simple, as clear as left from right.

Its clear line between Left and Right just like your hands are, and like your hands its has sub groups (sections) your hands have didgets each didget have 3 sections, the same happens in the 2 main political economic and political policy Capitalism and Socialism it get sub-divided extreme far right is Fascism extreme far left its Anarchism.

Yawn. I shan't even bother reading these posts any more, southy. I've just explained to you, in this very thread, why that view is inadequate.

Its not inadequate at all just takes a little bit more off under standing, Like Labour pre 1980 use to use a mild form of State Capitalist System with a bit of Socialism mix in. that is the nature of the Keynsain Policy, Its been 32 years since that policy was used, for the last 32 years its been a Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism Policy not much difference off the Policy of before 1945.
And I know Andy from Locks Heath will back me up on that and he is a 100% Capitalist he a Thatcherite though and though.

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

You have figures to back this claim up, I presume.

Do you for your claims?

Dresnez wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

lisa whitemore wrote:
doesnt matter if your permanent or agency in Southampton City Council because The Labour council dont care
for its loyal staff or voters-FACT all ive witnessed is all doom and gloom!!

Yes, and the TUSC Political Group said this will happen under a Tory, Labour, Greens, UKIP, First and any other pure right wing party, there will be cuts to Services and Jobs.
Its a case that the TUSC told you so before the elections.

Yeah, but that's still not enough reason to vote for them.

Explain 'pure right wing' please.

Its good enough if you want to keep services and jobs.
Just because Council Tax do not go up, it do not mean there is no increase, an increase in council tax can happen when your paying the same tax but getting less services for your tax.
You know what is right wing you do not need to told the difference

You've dodged the question, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

'Pure right wing' infers Fascism.

You've still not grasped the differences have you?

To label everyone who is not on your side of the political spectrum 'pure right wing' is utterly childish.

But as long as we are going to use political baby talk then you won't mind if I infer you to be 'pure left wing'.

I'm assuming you have all the facts and figures about how you're party would pay for this all. Link to the info please.

Imagine me as someone who might be undecided and wants to see them. If you don't have it to hand, I'm going somewhere else.

No Fascism it Extreme Far Right Wing, Right wing is Capitalism in it many forms, you really do need to learn.

Southy, drop the "you need to learn" nonsense. Shoongs point - and he's spot-on - is that you assume everyone who doesn't support your political ideals is, by definition, a right-wing fascist capitalist.

The entire notion of left/right wing politics is inadequate today. I've explained this to you, but you try and draw attention away from it with irrelevant history lessons about the labour party, for some reason.

Ah some truth at last. They are all useless. I despise all politicians. So few are worthy of any respect. Lab,Lib, Con, UKIP, BNP have no answers to the global problems and all spout such similar policies or non policies there is little to choose between them. This Tory government has been the worst government since WWII and that is saying something because there has been some sh*te in the past of both red and blue.

George4th wrote:

Linesman wrote:
The price you have to pay for Royston's Folly - the Titanic White Elephant.

The SeaCity Museum is EXCELLENT! Everyone I know who has been to see it has been 100% complimentary! It is TERRIFIC! It's a great building with every modern gizmo you can think of. It gives a wonderful insight into the history of Southampton through photos, videos and artifacts.

It's a shame that many citizens of the City of Southampton were born with a gene that causes whinging, moaning, lethargy, apathy and inertia - much like the Labour Council!
>
I would bet that most Sotonians haven't even been to the SeaCity Museum or many other of Southampton's attractions. Many people have a problem getting away from the TV or the Computer or posting on this website!!

Graeme Harrison wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

If they've been employed for a continuous period in excess of 2 years by SCC, they're entitled to redundancy payments.

loosehead wrote:

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:

Linesman wrote:

loosehead wrote:
You bl++dy hypocrites!
I & many like us come on here telling you of Labours plans.
we tell you watch out for job losses yet you argue what job losses.
then when you hear temporary you blame Sea city Museum ( totally different budget) you say so it's temporary?
The workers ( 200) will be redeployed for 4 months but what happens if they can't or don't want to do the job offered to them ? If there's a job to offer them?
If it's lower pay & they take it will they be guaranteed that their pension & redundancy packages will remain at the higher wage ?
Will they have to take a cut on their pension as well as their earnings & then find out the job they've taken is up for review & they could face redundancy on less money than if they were made redundant now?
On top of that the refuse workers will be expected to drop court cases would you knowing what's to come ( tip of iceberg) vote to accept any deal with this council?
We told you at least with the Tories you had jobs & were better off well now I can say TOLD YOU SO

Similarly, I and many others, were saying that the money spent on Royston's White Elephant would have to come from somewhere, and it would most likely involve cuts.

How many paying customers visited yesterday?

My betting is that they did not cover the running costs.

Can't you get it through you're thick head the Sea City Museum had sweet B+ggar all to do with pay cuts or job losses.
the Sea city Museum was built on funding from the Lottery & other grant organisations & from selling Millbrook industrial estate.
the wage cuts were for a year on year ( continuos) cut in expenditure so stop the hell bringing that red herring into the argument

No need to be abusive. I know that it is not pleasant when you are reminded of mistakes made by the administration that you supported but, whether you like it or not, the Sea City Museum was NOT (R) WHOLLY FUNDED BY A LOTTERY GRANT & OTHERS.

As with all other lottery grants, the recipients have to put up a percentage of the cost of what has to be funded, and no Royston's Folly was no exception.

Royston did the deal, leaving those that followed him to pay the price, and what we are seing now is part of the price that has to be paid.

You constantly bellyache about Labour leaving a note to say that there was no money in the safe.

Royston did not even leave a note.

Once again monies received from selling Millbrook Ind.Est. went to paying for the build & I remember you & others kicking up about that.
Now tell me does a 2% pay cut on £22,000 sound worse than no job at all?

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Collectively we the citizens must accept our part in this unholy mess.

After all it is us who either voted for these councillors or made their election possible by staying away on election day.

So many self serving ego driven men and women got elected. Most of them have conveniently forgotten that they should be serving the people but have become puppets of highly paid pen pushers or rubber stamps in Fat Cats hands.

We may have changed parties in power but not the evil nasty and vicious agenda of so called officers.

aldermoorboy wrote:
OHEC, it was Labour who put us in this position from 1997- 2010 by over spending ( £3 earnings £4 spent). The point I was making is Tories have the sense to live within our means.
Second point, locally Labour promised everything when we have little money, now they cannot deliver, that is misleading the voters.
Tories wanted a small salary drop for the better off, to keep services in Southampton, but Labour /Union militants had a political strike which has ended now with Labour sacking 200+ workers and restoring pay for the better off.
Conclusion vote Tory in 2014 for the party that cares and tells the truth.

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Wow talk about out of proportion or what ........ mind you it is to be expected from the usual Tory posters.
.
They will do away with Agency workers. These are paid by the agency and in theory employed by the agency and cost a small packet ..... however the agency worker often gets paid on or about the national minimum pay.
.
Doing away with "Freelancers" who command a very high payment, often on day rates, and cost an absolute fortune to carry out the same jobs as the SCC employed.
.
Its a pity but the dear old Echo really spend more time getting quotes from a failed leader rather than establishing the "truth" or perhaps putting more meat on the bone.

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Wow talk about out of proportion or what ........ mind you it is to be expected from the usual Tory posters.
.
They will do away with Agency workers. These are paid by the agency and in theory employed by the agency and cost a small packet ..... however the agency worker often gets paid on or about the national minimum pay.
.
Doing away with "Freelancers" who command a very high payment, often on day rates, and cost an absolute fortune to carry out the same jobs as the SCC employed.
.
Its a pity but the dear old Echo really spend more time getting quotes from a failed leader rather than establishing the "truth" or perhaps putting more meat on the bone.

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Wow talk about out of proportion or what ........ mind you it is to be expected from the usual Tory posters.
.
They will do away with Agency workers. These are paid by the agency and in theory employed by the agency and cost a small packet ..... however the agency worker often gets paid on or about the national minimum pay.
.
Doing away with "Freelancers" who command a very high payment, often on day rates, and cost an absolute fortune to carry out the same jobs as the SCC employed.
.
Its a pity but the dear old Echo really spend more time getting quotes from a failed leader rather than establishing the "truth" or perhaps putting more meat on the bone.

Freelancers are also cheaper than permanent employees. They also don't do the same jobs as the permanent employees. As well as the day job, they're also in effect relieving their client of some accounting duties. As a freelancer, I do my own PAYE and NI calculations and paperwork, my clients don't have anything to do with it. They just settle invoices as they do with any other supplier.

Graeme Harrison wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

If they've been employed for a continuous period in excess of 2 years by SCC, they're entitled to redundancy payments.

Maine Lobster wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote: It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

Rubbish! They get paid more via an agency and the permanent staff have to train them every time they come and go, often with no long term interest or commitment in the job,so the real cost if far more. A stable permanent staff is far better for all.

Independent Thought wrote:
Unfortunately losing 200 temporary staff only makes a small dent in the overall £42m deficit.

My fear is that there will be a lot more jobs that will need to go in order to balance the books.

We will see the true scale of the cuts when the 2013/14 budget comes out for consultation later this year.

southy wrote:

Graeme Harrison wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

nedscrumpo wrote:
It's the agency staff you want to get rid of; some of them are earning in excess of twice the rate of council staff!

Yes, but costing less.

No the cost is more, the only difference is that there is no redundancy money.

If they've been employed for a continuous period in excess of 2 years by SCC, they're entitled to redundancy payments.

Not from SCC that is down to the agency to pay them redundancy and the angency are more likely to move them to another location than pay redandancy unlees there is a one off agreement with SCC and the Agency concered

loosehead wrote:
Can't you see the left now squirming?
Under the Tory councils wages for those over £17,500 later revised in negotiations to those over £22,000 would take pay cuts starting at 2% going up to 5.5% the same rate the Tory & Liberal councillors took in a pay cut.
the whole reason was to secure weekly bin collections & save jobs.
We heard our Leader say 1-10 refuse jobs to go & fortnightly collections then he accused the Echo of lying?
We warned you then Workers beware but were called all sorts of names.
Royston made no lies he said a figure of job losses which would be made up by temps & voluntary redundancies & then after negotiations with the unions A figure agreed with unions of compulsory redundancies was said.
At no time did he say no redundancies did he?
You have all been lead up the garden path by the Labour Party & the Unions.
Refuse workers if you haven't voted yet then I hope you see you've been conned & vote against the Union & council proposal & get another Union officer(s).
I can see this being far worse as Williams did say 1,500 permanent posts would go on top of Temporary posts so this is the tip of the Iceberg.

loosehead wrote:
I was called a liar I was called Southy so please where's my apologise?
Everything I've said has come true now we have to fight to stop this Barmy Williams Labour council

lisa whitemore wrote:

loosehead wrote:
I was called a liar I was called Southy so please where's my apologise?
Everything I've said has come true now we have to fight to stop this Barmy Williams Labour council

cant see where fighting dick williams will do any good as he and his deciples follow their leader and joe public havnt got a hope in hell of getting any message through.