Homes plan thrown out over refinery fears

Daily Echo: Homes plan thrown out over refinery fears Homes plan thrown out over refinery fears

A CONTROVERSIAL housing scheme has been thrown out – because it would increase the number of families at risk if a major incident occurred at Fawley refinery.

A Government-appointed planning inspector has upheld a decision taken by New Forest District Council, which rejected proposals to build 20 homes on a greenfield site off Rollestone Road, Holbury.

Christopher Anstey said the land was inside the officially designated hazard zone that surrounded the refinery.

He added: “The proposal would increase the number of people at risk from a major accident at the complex by about 50. Most would be present overnight, with a significant proportion also likely to be at home during the day.

“It is accepted that the risk of a major incident is relatively low.

“However, locating new housing in the area likely to be affected makes little sense in planning terms. Other sites outside the sphere of this major hazard will not suffer the same consequences if an accident occurs.”

The district council rejected the original application last November, even though the proposal included a large amount of affordable housing. The authority had received 19 letters of objection from local residents, who said the scheme amounted to over-development and would result in the “harmful urbanisation” of the area.

Fawley Parish Council also attacked the potential loss of open space.

Other objectors included the Health and Safety Executive, which criticised plans to build a high-density housing scheme so close to the refinery.

A report to district councillors said: “The land forms part of an area of countryside that is critical to maintaining a degree of openness between Holbury to the north and Blackfield to the south.

“Protecting sites on the edge of built-up areas is considered particularly important if the character of the countryside is to be maintained.

The applicant, Elizabeth Young, lodged an appeal but Mr Anstey has upheld the council’s ruling.

Comments (11)

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7:34pm Wed 19 Sep 12

southy says...

""Other sites outside the sphere of this major hazard will not suffer the same consequences if an accident occurs.”

Well that would depend on what plant a major accident occurs, tank farm and mybe the seven sisters more than likely be right, but if some thing like the Deleading plant or the Residfinder plant blows up they be catching metal 200 miles away.
the one in the USA that went up killed 8 people and that was in the middle of no where in a desert, metal was being found 200 miles away, and that plant was at a lower pressure and lower tempeture than the one in the fawley refinery.
""Other sites outside the sphere of this major hazard will not suffer the same consequences if an accident occurs.” Well that would depend on what plant a major accident occurs, tank farm and mybe the seven sisters more than likely be right, but if some thing like the Deleading plant or the Residfinder plant blows up they be catching metal 200 miles away. the one in the USA that went up killed 8 people and that was in the middle of no where in a desert, metal was being found 200 miles away, and that plant was at a lower pressure and lower tempeture than the one in the fawley refinery. southy
  • Score: 0

11:10pm Wed 19 Sep 12

Torchie1 says...

You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going.
You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

11:38pm Wed 19 Sep 12

Solomon's Boot says...

southy wrote:
""Other sites outside the sphere of this major hazard will not suffer the same consequences if an accident occurs.”

Well that would depend on what plant a major accident occurs, tank farm and mybe the seven sisters more than likely be right, but if some thing like the Deleading plant or the Residfinder plant blows up they be catching metal 200 miles away.
the one in the USA that went up killed 8 people and that was in the middle of no where in a desert, metal was being found 200 miles away, and that plant was at a lower pressure and lower tempeture than the one in the fawley refinery.
So, we're all going to die? Oh well!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: ""Other sites outside the sphere of this major hazard will not suffer the same consequences if an accident occurs.” Well that would depend on what plant a major accident occurs, tank farm and mybe the seven sisters more than likely be right, but if some thing like the Deleading plant or the Residfinder plant blows up they be catching metal 200 miles away. the one in the USA that went up killed 8 people and that was in the middle of no where in a desert, metal was being found 200 miles away, and that plant was at a lower pressure and lower tempeture than the one in the fawley refinery.[/p][/quote]So, we're all going to die? Oh well! Solomon's Boot
  • Score: 0

9:44am Thu 20 Sep 12

loosehead says...

I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they? loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:02am Thu 20 Sep 12

Torchie1 says...

loosehead wrote:
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

11:13am Thu 20 Sep 12

southy says...

Torchie1 wrote:
You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going.
Check out the plant that was built in 1986 to 87 by Kelloggs in the refinery, that was a deleading plant, and your wrong about fuel all fuel from crude oil contains lead, the parfin layer of crude oil contains the most lead and why you not allowed to use parfin motors on the roads.
Octane is a hydrocarbon and an alkane and has 18 structural isomers 24 including stereoisomers. Octane comes from crude oil after you crack it- Deleading plant.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going.[/p][/quote]Check out the plant that was built in 1986 to 87 by Kelloggs in the refinery, that was a deleading plant, and your wrong about fuel all fuel from crude oil contains lead, the parfin layer of crude oil contains the most lead and why you not allowed to use parfin motors on the roads. Octane is a hydrocarbon and an alkane and has 18 structural isomers 24 including stereoisomers. Octane comes from crude oil after you crack it- Deleading plant. southy
  • Score: 0

11:35am Thu 20 Sep 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
The blast area was set up in the 1950's, but since then mainly after early mid 80's, new techonoly allowed refinerys to be smaller but what comes with this is a higher pressure and higher temptures.
like the residfiner plant built in 1989-91 is a cracker plant its only a 1/4 of the size of the old cracker plant but works at a very much higher tempture and a lot more pressure, it has its own power plant that super heats water at a temp that would make copper go soft, the pressure is in its 1000's of psi, where as the old cracker plant the pressure was only just above atmospheric pressure when cold and used hot water that was supplied by the SP2 plant that heated water up to just above boiling point.
So yes the Houses that are there now are to close.
In America they do not build the new types of Deleaders and Residerfiner plants any where near people, they are built in places where people don't live normally. but in the uk you will not find a place isolated enough to be able to do what they do in the USA and other places like Australia.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]The blast area was set up in the 1950's, but since then mainly after early mid 80's, new techonoly allowed refinerys to be smaller but what comes with this is a higher pressure and higher temptures. like the residfiner plant built in 1989-91 is a cracker plant its only a 1/4 of the size of the old cracker plant but works at a very much higher tempture and a lot more pressure, it has its own power plant that super heats water at a temp that would make copper go soft, the pressure is in its 1000's of psi, where as the old cracker plant the pressure was only just above atmospheric pressure when cold and used hot water that was supplied by the SP2 plant that heated water up to just above boiling point. So yes the Houses that are there now are to close. In America they do not build the new types of Deleaders and Residerfiner plants any where near people, they are built in places where people don't live normally. but in the uk you will not find a place isolated enough to be able to do what they do in the USA and other places like Australia. southy
  • Score: 0

11:47am Thu 20 Sep 12

southy says...

Torchie1 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.
The one in Texas city apart from it killing 15 people 5 in the USA and another 10 in Mexico, it happened at Mexican gas pipeline distribution center on the boarder in 2005, and not in 1989.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.[/p][/quote]The one in Texas city apart from it killing 15 people 5 in the USA and another 10 in Mexico, it happened at Mexican gas pipeline distribution center on the boarder in 2005, and not in 1989. southy
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Thu 20 Sep 12

loosehead says...

Torchie1 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.
Honestly nearly every one I konw would say if Fawley went up in say a terrorist attack Southampton would be finished.
I'm not scare mongering & I wouldn't swear on it it's just something most people I know take for granted
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.[/p][/quote]Honestly nearly every one I konw would say if Fawley went up in say a terrorist attack Southampton would be finished. I'm not scare mongering & I wouldn't swear on it it's just something most people I know take for granted loosehead
  • Score: 0

1:16pm Thu 20 Sep 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it?
But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?
If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.
Honestly nearly every one I konw would say if Fawley went up in say a terrorist attack Southampton would be finished.
I'm not scare mongering & I wouldn't swear on it it's just something most people I know take for granted
Pre 85 you probley would of felt a little bit of a tempture rise, and maybe get killed by the gasses if the wind was blowning in the right direction.
But after 86 it would be more than just feeling a bit of a tempture rise you have tiny bits of metal flying pass your ears and after 91 it would be more than tiny bits of metal it would be lumps flying pass
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: I read once if Fawley was to go up then we in Southampton will have had it? But surely the housing estates they have near it now should be classified as too close shouldn't they?[/p][/quote]If your life depended on it you wouldn't be able to give the source of that bit of information. Fawley has provided employment for hundreds of thousands of people over the years and not all of them have been the sharpest knives in the drawer. Southy alone provides evidence of belief in the most lurid tales of what he's managed to misunderstand and then repeat as gospel truth. I think you'll find that the boundary has been established based on a release of Chlorine gas because of the large quantities that were used in various processes. More noxious gases like Hydrogen Sulphide have been included in the past but have now been dropped because they are no longer used.As for shrapnel flying after an explosion, you only have to look at devastating incidents like the catastrophe at Texas City to see how localised the damage is.[/p][/quote]Honestly nearly every one I konw would say if Fawley went up in say a terrorist attack Southampton would be finished. I'm not scare mongering & I wouldn't swear on it it's just something most people I know take for granted[/p][/quote]Pre 85 you probley would of felt a little bit of a tempture rise, and maybe get killed by the gasses if the wind was blowning in the right direction. But after 86 it would be more than just feeling a bit of a tempture rise you have tiny bits of metal flying pass your ears and after 91 it would be more than tiny bits of metal it would be lumps flying pass southy
  • Score: 0

2:56pm Thu 20 Sep 12

Torchie1 says...

southy wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going.
Check out the plant that was built in 1986 to 87 by Kelloggs in the refinery, that was a deleading plant, and your wrong about fuel all fuel from crude oil contains lead, the parfin layer of crude oil contains the most lead and why you not allowed to use parfin motors on the roads.
Octane is a hydrocarbon and an alkane and has 18 structural isomers 24 including stereoisomers. Octane comes from crude oil after you crack it- Deleading plant.
You clearly didn't study or understand chemistry either. Lead was being added to raw gasoline in WW11 which allowed the Allies to produce a much higher octane for their aircraft. In those days the refineries couldn't produce it by the process but adding T.E.L gave 'free octane'. After the war the practice was carried on because adding T.E.L was cheaper than reforming a low octane Pipestill product but the environmentalists kicked up a fuss and leaded fuel became generally unavailable in 2000. One of the Reformer byproducts was re-routed to a new plant called an Isomerisation Unit, which came on line in the mid eighties and because this was for the production of unleaded fuel, you've overheard something and completely constructed another fantasy around it and insist on calling it a 'deleading plant'. Any member of the public can check this by phoning the Esso Refinery on 80892511. Just to clarify the point, lead was added as Tetraethyl lead and as lead is a Catalyst poison, any lead going forward from the crude tanks through the Cat Cracker, the Hydrofiners, the Residfiner of the Polymerisation plant would stop them from working. You don't know what you're trying to talk about and you're obviously too embarrassed to phone the refinery but you carry on making yourself look silly by persisting with this argument. Make the phone call and you can be man enough to admit you got it wrong..... or can you? Perhaps you ought to ask about 'octane' while you're at it. Ex Pipestills the octane is around 65 which is boosted by reforming (not cracking) it to about 95. This is then blended with Isomerised product which is typically 88 octane and that's where your petrol comes from. Perhaps you should give up with the '**** baffles brains' approach because you are no good at that either.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: You've been told before that there is no such thing as a 'Deleading Plant' and if you call the Esso Refinery on 80892511 they will tell you the same thing. Leaded petrol was finally phased out of general sale in the UK in the year 2000 and the 'lead' came from the addition of the octane booster Tetraethyl lead. No T.E.L has been used at Fawley for over ten years. The only place a ;Deleading Plant' exists is alongside all the other mumbo-jumbo in your mind. I've given you the number to check and I imagine the owners of the refinery would have a reasonable idea of what equipment they have on site. As for the mysterious refinery in the American desert that has managed to cause an explosion that the Army would be envious of........ I won't laugh too much if you can just provide a name for this source of 200 mile range fragments. We both know it's another of your fantasies but try to make up a name to keep the tale going.[/p][/quote]Check out the plant that was built in 1986 to 87 by Kelloggs in the refinery, that was a deleading plant, and your wrong about fuel all fuel from crude oil contains lead, the parfin layer of crude oil contains the most lead and why you not allowed to use parfin motors on the roads. Octane is a hydrocarbon and an alkane and has 18 structural isomers 24 including stereoisomers. Octane comes from crude oil after you crack it- Deleading plant.[/p][/quote]You clearly didn't study or understand chemistry either. Lead was being added to raw gasoline in WW11 which allowed the Allies to produce a much higher octane for their aircraft. In those days the refineries couldn't produce it by the process but adding T.E.L gave 'free octane'. After the war the practice was carried on because adding T.E.L was cheaper than reforming a low octane Pipestill product but the environmentalists kicked up a fuss and leaded fuel became generally unavailable in 2000. One of the Reformer byproducts was re-routed to a new plant called an Isomerisation Unit, which came on line in the mid eighties and because this was for the production of unleaded fuel, you've overheard something and completely constructed another fantasy around it and insist on calling it a 'deleading plant'. Any member of the public can check this by phoning the Esso Refinery on 80892511. Just to clarify the point, lead was added as Tetraethyl lead and as lead is a Catalyst poison, any lead going forward from the crude tanks through the Cat Cracker, the Hydrofiners, the Residfiner of the Polymerisation plant would stop them from working. You don't know what you're trying to talk about and you're obviously too embarrassed to phone the refinery but you carry on making yourself look silly by persisting with this argument. Make the phone call and you can be man enough to admit you got it wrong..... or can you? Perhaps you ought to ask about 'octane' while you're at it. Ex Pipestills the octane is around 65 which is boosted by reforming (not cracking) it to about 95. This is then blended with Isomerised product which is typically 88 octane and that's where your petrol comes from. Perhaps you should give up with the '**** baffles brains' approach because you are no good at that either. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

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