Campaigners step up fight against controversial plans (From Daily Echo)

Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads

I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

I am for the Sainsbury plans, but against the Stoneham development. Both have their pros and cons. I doubt what I think will have any effect on the eventual outcome.

sburman wrote:
Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

Couldn't agree more!

Let's not forget that Fleming Park golf course is now public space. People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space.

Organiser Pat Ford said: “We both feel that the green areas that are under threat are part of Eastleigh’s heritage and so we felt we could join together.

“It is just wrong to just concrete over a green space which lots of people enjoy.”

So lets keep the green areas and all the people who need homes can buy tents and camp out on them - everybody happy !!!!!

Organiser Pat Ford said: “We both feel that the green areas that are under threat are part of Eastleigh’s heritage and so we felt we could join together.

“It is just wrong to just concrete over a green space which lots of people enjoy.”

So lets keep the green areas and all the people who need homes can buy tents and camp out on them - everybody happy !!!!!

I went past Sainsburys in Portswood yesterday and felt sick to the stomach. It is large, dominating, grey and ugly. (and it is already destroying businesses there).

When the same gets built onto Eastleigh rec it will utterly destroy the beauty of the space forever and destroy as many jobs as it creates.

All these wonderful supermarkets, so benevolent in their altruistic desire to save the high street, yeah right....they are in a battle to see who can REPLACE the most hight streets first.

Tescos are using exactly the same arguments in Romsey...pretty soon we'll all be in clone towns with no character or independent businesses.

seriously??? wrote:
Organiser Pat Ford said: “We both feel that the green areas that are under threat are part of Eastleigh’s heritage and so we felt we could join together.

“It is just wrong to just concrete over a green space which lots of people enjoy.”

So lets keep the green areas and all the people who need homes can buy tents and camp out on them - everybody happy !!!!!

The country has a large stock of empty homes, but they are not as lucrative to sell off to developers.
Also, plenty of brown field sites have been ignored, in favour of green land that the council can make money off.
Another travelodge has appeared opposite the station (despite the company being in financial trouble) - that could have been affordable flats with parking underneath.

Irate Wintonian wrote:

sburman wrote:
Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

Couldn't agree more!

Let's not forget that Fleming Park golf course is now public space. People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space.

"People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space"
egh?...Yes they do! you obviously walk around with your eyes closed. (which would explain your blinkered views). Kids play there, students eat lunch there, as do workers. Also for a lot of disabled people in Eastleigh who don't have money or access to transport, it's where they go to enjoy fresh air and greenery. Not everyone in Eastleigh has a garden to sit in.

As one of the protesters and a local resident I am not against the redevelopment of Sainsbury's - I shop there and will continue to do so. It is the size of the development which is the problem. Sainsbury's don't just want to add a wet fish counter a cafe, clothing and hardware aisles - they want a distribution and home delivery hub with parking for a fleet of delivery lorries and that's what is causing encroachment onto the rec.
The supermarket chain is actively trying to expand its home delivery business so this will do nothing to encourage people to visit Eastleigh and bring trade to other businesses. In fact the opposite, Sainsbury's offers financial incentives for people to stay at home and do their grocery shopping online.
Surely it really doesn't matter where this part of their business model is located, a warehouse on a trading estate would do just as well.
Sure its more economic to bundle this in with a store but It's not as if they can't afford it.
The Sainsbury's application is in reality two separate operations and planning should treat it as such.
As it stands the store is a Trojan Horse for a warehouse and lorry park in the middle of a town which already has air quality issues an dis supposed to be restricting lorry movements not increasing them (policy). We also need more trees not fewer.

stuartjebbitt wrote:

Irate Wintonian wrote:

sburman wrote:
Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

Couldn't agree more!

Let's not forget that Fleming Park golf course is now public space. People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space.

"People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space"
egh?...Yes they do! you obviously walk around with your eyes closed. (which would explain your blinkered views). Kids play there, students eat lunch there, as do workers. Also for a lot of disabled people in Eastleigh who don't have money or access to transport, it's where they go to enjoy fresh air and greenery. Not everyone in Eastleigh has a garden to sit in.

From what I saw of the Sainsbury's plans there will be plenty of recreational space left.

I have participated in campaigns to protect Eastleighs green areas, notably the allotments, in the past and no matter how hard you campaign, the present administration will vote whatever they want through the chamber. As a child the Leigh Rd rec was a fantastic place to visit and to lose more of this facility will be a travesty bearing in mind the amount of vacant shop space in the centre. With a realistic development plan put in place, the town centre could still be saved and the park left as a valuable asset for the residents. I do not like the way my home town has been left to rack and ruin over the last twenty odd years. We have missed a golden opportunity to remodel the town into an attractive centre, Somebody please use some imagination to turn this around, pass me the pencil and plans, I would love to do it.

Son of Fred wrote:
As one of the protesters and a local resident I am not against the redevelopment of Sainsbury's - I shop there and will continue to do so. It is the size of the development which is the problem. Sainsbury's don't just want to add a wet fish counter a cafe, clothing and hardware aisles - they want a distribution and home delivery hub with parking for a fleet of delivery lorries and that's what is causing encroachment onto the rec.
The supermarket chain is actively trying to expand its home delivery business so this will do nothing to encourage people to visit Eastleigh and bring trade to other businesses. In fact the opposite, Sainsbury's offers financial incentives for people to stay at home and do their grocery shopping online.
Surely it really doesn't matter where this part of their business model is located, a warehouse on a trading estate would do just as well.
Sure its more economic to bundle this in with a store but It's not as if they can't afford it.
The Sainsbury's application is in reality two separate operations and planning should treat it as such.
As it stands the store is a Trojan Horse for a warehouse and lorry park in the middle of a town which already has air quality issues an dis supposed to be restricting lorry movements not increasing them (policy). We also need more trees not fewer.

What a load of cobblers a fleet of delivery lorries, that would be a few transit type vans, and the small area of the recreation ground they want to lease from the council is a small price to pay for the rejuvenation of Eastleigh which it desperately needs. Look at it another way if Sainsbury's are not allowed to expand their store here they can just close it and open one somewhere else and their current store would make one hell of a charity shop, it could be the first charity shop in the country to have its own bus terminus.
It would be nice to live in a perfect world it would even be nice to live in the world that i was born into but times change not always for the better but change they will, if you look at the picture above i would say the average age is over 55 so in their lifetime millions have come to this country swelling the population to breaking point and how many houses have been built in that time ?. We need far more houses than can be achieved by just using brownfield sites so all you nimby's stop being so selfish and think of others.

I think all councils should be made up of 50% local independant people (who can't be a paid up member of a political party) - so each ward (which might need to be larger) has 2 councillors - only one of which can be affiliated to a political party. that way, we'd return to true local democracy - by ensuring that local people have a genuine stake in local decision making and we can never again have dictatorships like Eastleigh, elected on a low turnout. Runaway egos and political careerists would be kept a bay.

ohec wrote:

Son of Fred wrote:
As one of the protesters and a local resident I am not against the redevelopment of Sainsbury's - I shop there and will continue to do so. It is the size of the development which is the problem. Sainsbury's don't just want to add a wet fish counter a cafe, clothing and hardware aisles - they want a distribution and home delivery hub with parking for a fleet of delivery lorries and that's what is causing encroachment onto the rec.
The supermarket chain is actively trying to expand its home delivery business so this will do nothing to encourage people to visit Eastleigh and bring trade to other businesses. In fact the opposite, Sainsbury's offers financial incentives for people to stay at home and do their grocery shopping online.
Surely it really doesn't matter where this part of their business model is located, a warehouse on a trading estate would do just as well.
Sure its more economic to bundle this in with a store but It's not as if they can't afford it.
The Sainsbury's application is in reality two separate operations and planning should treat it as such.
As it stands the store is a Trojan Horse for a warehouse and lorry park in the middle of a town which already has air quality issues an dis supposed to be restricting lorry movements not increasing them (policy). We also need more trees not fewer.

What a load of cobblers a fleet of delivery lorries, that would be a few transit type vans, and the small area of the recreation ground they want to lease from the council is a small price to pay for the rejuvenation of Eastleigh which it desperately needs. Look at it another way if Sainsbury's are not allowed to expand their store here they can just close it and open one somewhere else and their current store would make one hell of a charity shop, it could be the first charity shop in the country to have its own bus terminus.
It would be nice to live in a perfect world it would even be nice to live in the world that i was born into but times change not always for the better but change they will, if you look at the picture above i would say the average age is over 55 so in their lifetime millions have come to this country swelling the population to breaking point and how many houses have been built in that time ?. We need far more houses than can be achieved by just using brownfield sites so all you nimby's stop being so selfish and think of others.

I was at the demo - and it was certainly NOT all older people - there were plenty of teenagers, and families with children there. I would say a broad mix of ages and cultures and political viewpoints. There were speakers from every party (Con, Lab, Ukip and Green party) but no one from the Lib Dems.

ohec wrote:

Son of Fred wrote: As one of the protesters and a local resident I am not against the redevelopment of Sainsbury's - I shop there and will continue to do so. It is the size of the development which is the problem. Sainsbury's don't just want to add a wet fish counter a cafe, clothing and hardware aisles - they want a distribution and home delivery hub with parking for a fleet of delivery lorries and that's what is causing encroachment onto the rec. The supermarket chain is actively trying to expand its home delivery business so this will do nothing to encourage people to visit Eastleigh and bring trade to other businesses. In fact the opposite, Sainsbury's offers financial incentives for people to stay at home and do their grocery shopping online. Surely it really doesn't matter where this part of their business model is located, a warehouse on a trading estate would do just as well. Sure its more economic to bundle this in with a store but It's not as if they can't afford it. The Sainsbury's application is in reality two separate operations and planning should treat it as such. As it stands the store is a Trojan Horse for a warehouse and lorry park in the middle of a town which already has air quality issues an dis supposed to be restricting lorry movements not increasing them (policy). We also need more trees not fewer.

What a load of cobblers a fleet of delivery lorries, that would be a few transit type vans, and the small area of the recreation ground they want to lease from the council is a small price to pay for the rejuvenation of Eastleigh which it desperately needs. Look at it another way if Sainsbury's are not allowed to expand their store here they can just close it and open one somewhere else and their current store would make one hell of a charity shop, it could be the first charity shop in the country to have its own bus terminus. It would be nice to live in a perfect world it would even be nice to live in the world that i was born into but times change not always for the better but change they will, if you look at the picture above i would say the average age is over 55 so in their lifetime millions have come to this country swelling the population to breaking point and how many houses have been built in that time ?. We need far more houses than can be achieved by just using brownfield sites so all you nimby's stop being so selfish and think of others.

Interesting observation you make ohec, if Sainsburys pull out then the charity shops have their own bus terminus. Redevelop the end of Leigh rd, remove the charity shop spaces and allow Sainsburys to develop into the centre, thereby leaving the park alone. We need some imagination to turn the Town around. Just because we want to save the park in no way constitutes us as Nimbys.

stuartjebbitt wrote:

ohec wrote:

Son of Fred wrote:
As one of the protesters and a local resident I am not against the redevelopment of Sainsbury's - I shop there and will continue to do so. It is the size of the development which is the problem. Sainsbury's don't just want to add a wet fish counter a cafe, clothing and hardware aisles - they want a distribution and home delivery hub with parking for a fleet of delivery lorries and that's what is causing encroachment onto the rec.
The supermarket chain is actively trying to expand its home delivery business so this will do nothing to encourage people to visit Eastleigh and bring trade to other businesses. In fact the opposite, Sainsbury's offers financial incentives for people to stay at home and do their grocery shopping online.
Surely it really doesn't matter where this part of their business model is located, a warehouse on a trading estate would do just as well.
Sure its more economic to bundle this in with a store but It's not as if they can't afford it.
The Sainsbury's application is in reality two separate operations and planning should treat it as such.
As it stands the store is a Trojan Horse for a warehouse and lorry park in the middle of a town which already has air quality issues an dis supposed to be restricting lorry movements not increasing them (policy). We also need more trees not fewer.

What a load of cobblers a fleet of delivery lorries, that would be a few transit type vans, and the small area of the recreation ground they want to lease from the council is a small price to pay for the rejuvenation of Eastleigh which it desperately needs. Look at it another way if Sainsbury's are not allowed to expand their store here they can just close it and open one somewhere else and their current store would make one hell of a charity shop, it could be the first charity shop in the country to have its own bus terminus.
It would be nice to live in a perfect world it would even be nice to live in the world that i was born into but times change not always for the better but change they will, if you look at the picture above i would say the average age is over 55 so in their lifetime millions have come to this country swelling the population to breaking point and how many houses have been built in that time ?. We need far more houses than can be achieved by just using brownfield sites so all you nimby's stop being so selfish and think of others.

I was at the demo - and it was certainly NOT all older people - there were plenty of teenagers, and families with children there. I would say a broad mix of ages and cultures and political viewpoints. There were speakers from every party (Con, Lab, Ukip and Green party) but no one from the Lib Dems.

How many police where there for `crowd` control?

You will never get a plan on which all agree but the fact is Eastleigh Town centre is already dying and this idea seams as good as any and better than most.

sburman wrote:
You will never get a plan on which all agree but the fact is Eastleigh Town centre is already dying and this idea seams as good as any and better than most.

Well said its quite depressing to see shops close and then reopen as a charity shop, with all of the new housing they are going to build a bigger and better Sainsbury's is the catalyst that is required to turn the town around and the only people that are to blind to see that are nimby's and people that are against change of any kind.
As for the houses i wonder how many of the protesters are hoping to buy their first house or are on the social housing list (answer none) because they already have nice houses so its a case of f**k you jack im all right.

sburman wrote:

stuartjebbitt wrote:

Irate Wintonian wrote:

sburman wrote:
Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

Couldn't agree more!

Let's not forget that Fleming Park golf course is now public space. People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space.

"People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space"
egh?...Yes they do! you obviously walk around with your eyes closed. (which would explain your blinkered views). Kids play there, students eat lunch there, as do workers. Also for a lot of disabled people in Eastleigh who don't have money or access to transport, it's where they go to enjoy fresh air and greenery. Not everyone in Eastleigh has a garden to sit in.

From what I saw of the Sainsbury's plans there will be plenty of recreational space left.

Don't trust Sainsburys' initial plans,they always chuck in many variables after permission is granted.

100%HANTSBOY wrote:

sburman wrote:

stuartjebbitt wrote:

Irate Wintonian wrote:

sburman wrote:
Crowds of 10’s on Eastleigh Rec., That’ll turn a few heads I live in Eastleigh and I strongly feel that the development plans for Sainsbury’s are a good idea, does anybody know where I can sign a petition stating this

Couldn't agree more!

Let's not forget that Fleming Park golf course is now public space. People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space.

"People don't generally go into a town centre to specifically enjoy green space"
egh?...Yes they do! you obviously walk around with your eyes closed. (which would explain your blinkered views). Kids play there, students eat lunch there, as do workers. Also for a lot of disabled people in Eastleigh who don't have money or access to transport, it's where they go to enjoy fresh air and greenery. Not everyone in Eastleigh has a garden to sit in.

From what I saw of the Sainsbury's plans there will be plenty of recreational space left.

Don't trust Sainsburys' initial plans,they always chuck in many variables after permission is granted.

And you know this how, it is not uncommon to apply for variations to plans as often unseen problems arise. I would also prefer to put my trust in Sainsbury's rather than a bunch of stick in the mud nimby's who want nothing to change, then when its too late and Eastleigh has died the death they will go around looking for someone to blame. And those very same people will also complain that their children/grandchildr
en have nowhere to live, how sad and short sighted some people can be, not to mention selfish.

Better a nimby than a sheep....bah!!! bah!!!..bah!!!

This is not anti-Sainsburys. It would be the same reaction if it were Tescos or Asda. The proposed store is simply way to big and inappropriate for the setting. (over 3 x the current floorspace). I suggest people go and look at the behemoth that is the Sainsburys store in Portswood and then imagine that transplanted onto Eastleigh Rec.They want to add a cafe when there are already 20 or so places in Eastleigh where you get a coffee and food. Hardly, encouraging more footfall around the town is it?
Maybe when all the independent shops have gone and only the 4/5 major 'one-stop' supermarkets remain, paying low wages, will people wake up to what is happening.

stuartjebbitt wrote:
This is not anti-Sainsburys. It would be the same reaction if it were Tescos or Asda. The proposed store is simply way to big and inappropriate for the setting. (over 3 x the current floorspace). I suggest people go and look at the behemoth that is the Sainsburys store in Portswood and then imagine that transplanted onto Eastleigh Rec.They want to add a cafe when there are already 20 or so places in Eastleigh where you get a coffee and food. Hardly, encouraging more footfall around the town is it?
Maybe when all the independent shops have gone and only the 4/5 major 'one-stop' supermarkets remain, paying low wages, will people wake up to what is happening.

But the trouble is all of your independent shops are going one by one they are shutting because there is no main attraction anymore, i frequently go to Sainsbury's in Winchester because my wife can buy things their that she can't buy in Eastleigh and i am sure i am not alone. We need that major attraction and the little independents but for the independents to survive they need to be diverse and have the footfall that Sainsbury's will generate, they have done their homework and know exactly where and how many customers their new store will generate including all the new builds that are going to be built.

ohec wrote:

stuartjebbitt wrote:
This is not anti-Sainsburys. It would be the same reaction if it were Tescos or Asda. The proposed store is simply way to big and inappropriate for the setting. (over 3 x the current floorspace). I suggest people go and look at the behemoth that is the Sainsburys store in Portswood and then imagine that transplanted onto Eastleigh Rec.They want to add a cafe when there are already 20 or so places in Eastleigh where you get a coffee and food. Hardly, encouraging more footfall around the town is it?
Maybe when all the independent shops have gone and only the 4/5 major 'one-stop' supermarkets remain, paying low wages, will people wake up to what is happening.

But the trouble is all of your independent shops are going one by one they are shutting because there is no main attraction anymore, i frequently go to Sainsbury's in Winchester because my wife can buy things their that she can't buy in Eastleigh and i am sure i am not alone. We need that major attraction and the little independents but for the independents to survive they need to be diverse and have the footfall that Sainsbury's will generate, they have done their homework and know exactly where and how many customers their new store will generate including all the new builds that are going to be built.

Yes, I agree with your point of 'no main attraction'. But the idea that the Sainsburys will be a quick fix is a false one I believe. All the research shows that large supermarkets such as this destroy as many job as they create - so you just flatline, and meanwhile you've further destroyed the choice of shops, and in our case, lost yet another chunk of green space (which incidentally, was given to the people of Eastleigh as such, forever)
When I lived in Ringwood the big pull was the market - market day was always packed! why are we shrinking our market and not making it easier to start new stalls? also Ringwood have created the Furlong precinct - which is aesthetically pleasant to visit and brings in footfall. Sainsburys could easily expand to provide what you are asking for here without building into the park. The building into the park is to facilitate a home delivery depot - so of no value to Eastleigh footfall whatsoever. They want to have their cake and eat it - and our tick box one party council will give it to them. Eastleigh is sitting on a massive multi -million earning potential of Railway and Spitfire heritage - yet no one is being approached to exploit it. I personally have no interest in it - but thousands do - you only have to see the crowds that appear from far and near when any steam train passes through. I think the council are not thinking outside the box, they are looking for a quick fix and Sainsburys are taking advantage of that.

I don't see Sainsbury's as a quick fix i see it as the first step towards revitalising Eastleigh, i can't agree with your point of the home delivery service being no gain to Eastleigh those vans need drivers and the goods have to be picked and any revenue that the store takes has to be good for the town as a whole, i do have some sympathy regarding the park but it is only a very small part they will be leasing and i feel that is a small price to pay for the benefit the store will bring. Also any effort to bring the town to life has to be a good thing and all options should be explored including road closures to expand the market, high streets all over are having a hard time and we need innovative solutions the people are there and they will come if we can give them something to come for.