Green leader visiting city (From Daily Echo)

Wonder how she travels about.

hulla baloo wrote:
Wonder how she travels about.

Humvee, if she's got any green sense.

"to meet local activists". There must be one more than I thought.

I wasn't aware there were any local elections in Southampton next year.

.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

freefinker wrote:
.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

Not misinformed, its Fact, they did bring in a Budget of Cuts, after there promise of a needs budget. so less of your excuses for this Right Wing Party that only offers the same as all the rest, oh what else was it they doing Building homes on a SSI meadow field.
Still they will learn come may next year when there is elections again after 2 years are up and Brigton and Hove council go to the polls

FoysCornerBoy wrote:
I wasn't aware there were any local elections in Southampton next year.

There is not apart from any by-elections, the Elections they are on about are the County Elections

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

Not misinformed, its Fact, they did bring in a Budget of Cuts, after there promise of a needs budget. so less of your excuses for this Right Wing Party that only offers the same as all the rest, oh what else was it they doing Building homes on a SSI meadow field.
Still they will learn come may next year when there is elections again after 2 years are up and Brigton and Hove council go to the polls

As supporter of TUSC and sympathiser of Southy's Socialist Party I can't share his sectarian attitude towards Greens and virtual obsession with Council in Brighton.

Considering Southy describing Greens as party of right on the basis 'if you are not with us you are against' is similar to philosophy of Neo-Con Bush,former president of USA, it could beg the question about his own left wing credentials.

Whether any individual likes Greens or hates them should not be the issue, they have won the Council wards in Brighton in large numbers through proper democratic process, where our TUSC only lost every seat contested. So to keep on moaning about them in Southampton is not only insulting voters of Brighton but also in my view is waste of time.

Southy's Socialist Party in its last life as Militant within Labour had some of it's members elected as councillors in Southampton, having sat in the same Labour Group I can only say that all of them bar Linda often supported right wingers in the Group and likes of I and late Brian Roost outside, and then went on to stitch us up... Hardly surprising the monopoly rights holders of true socialism our Trotskyist comrades also supported John Denham against Bryan Gould as Labour candidate for Soton Itchen. And then in Portsmouth were caught enrolling National Front members into the Labour Party.

With record like that I request Southy to stop throwing stones at others from inside a glass house with partly missing roof.

IF they are really serious about achieving some success Those within the Green Party with open minds and people in various socialist factions including socialists still stranded within NuLabour should rather than keep on attacking each other learn to cooperate,

And Southy should concentrate more on Redbridge where as SP member and TUSC candidate he has built a reasonable base.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

Not misinformed, its Fact, they did bring in a Budget of Cuts, after there promise of a needs budget. so less of your excuses for this Right Wing Party that only offers the same as all the rest, oh what else was it they doing Building homes on a SSI meadow field.
Still they will learn come may next year when there is elections again after 2 years are up and Brigton and Hove council go to the polls

As supporter of TUSC and sympathiser of Southy's Socialist Party I can't share his sectarian attitude towards Greens and virtual obsession with Council in Brighton.

Considering Southy describing Greens as party of right on the basis 'if you are not with us you are against' is similar to philosophy of Neo-Con Bush,former president of USA, it could beg the question about his own left wing credentials.

Whether any individual likes Greens or hates them should not be the issue, they have won the Council wards in Brighton in large numbers through proper democratic process, where our TUSC only lost every seat contested. So to keep on moaning about them in Southampton is not only insulting voters of Brighton but also in my view is waste of time.

Southy's Socialist Party in its last life as Militant within Labour had some of it's members elected as councillors in Southampton, having sat in the same Labour Group I can only say that all of them bar Linda often supported right wingers in the Group and likes of I and late Brian Roost outside, and then went on to stitch us up... Hardly surprising the monopoly rights holders of true socialism our Trotskyist comrades also supported John Denham against Bryan Gould as Labour candidate for Soton Itchen. And then in Portsmouth were caught enrolling National Front members into the Labour Party.

With record like that I request Southy to stop throwing stones at others from inside a glass house with partly missing roof.

IF they are really serious about achieving some success Those within the Green Party with open minds and people in various socialist factions including socialists still stranded within NuLabour should rather than keep on attacking each other learn to cooperate,

And Southy should concentrate more on Redbridge where as SP member and TUSC candidate he has built a reasonable base.

The Green party will end up breaking up its coalition, some green members have all ready left the coalition of greens. 2 had turned up at the TUSC Confrence last mth.
I not saying all Greens will agree what went on in Brighton, there are a number say that was wrong, more wrong than normal as they got elected in on a Needs Budget, and what did they do on there 2nd term of office present a Cuts in Services and Jobs Budget, they are acting more like Labour and the Torys than a party for the people.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

Not misinformed, its Fact, they did bring in a Budget of Cuts, after there promise of a needs budget. so less of your excuses for this Right Wing Party that only offers the same as all the rest, oh what else was it they doing Building homes on a SSI meadow field.
Still they will learn come may next year when there is elections again after 2 years are up and Brigton and Hove council go to the polls

As supporter of TUSC and sympathiser of Southy's Socialist Party I can't share his sectarian attitude towards Greens and virtual obsession with Council in Brighton.

Considering Southy describing Greens as party of right on the basis 'if you are not with us you are against' is similar to philosophy of Neo-Con Bush,former president of USA, it could beg the question about his own left wing credentials.

Whether any individual likes Greens or hates them should not be the issue, they have won the Council wards in Brighton in large numbers through proper democratic process, where our TUSC only lost every seat contested. So to keep on moaning about them in Southampton is not only insulting voters of Brighton but also in my view is waste of time.

Southy's Socialist Party in its last life as Militant within Labour had some of it's members elected as councillors in Southampton, having sat in the same Labour Group I can only say that all of them bar Linda often supported right wingers in the Group and likes of I and late Brian Roost outside, and then went on to stitch us up... Hardly surprising the monopoly rights holders of true socialism our Trotskyist comrades also supported John Denham against Bryan Gould as Labour candidate for Soton Itchen. And then in Portsmouth were caught enrolling National Front members into the Labour Party.

With record like that I request Southy to stop throwing stones at others from inside a glass house with partly missing roof.

IF they are really serious about achieving some success Those within the Green Party with open minds and people in various socialist factions including socialists still stranded within NuLabour should rather than keep on attacking each other learn to cooperate,

And Southy should concentrate more on Redbridge where as SP member and TUSC candidate he has built a reasonable base.

Southy is another Stalin in the wings who would like to enjoy totalitarian rule so that he could take revenge on anyone who didn't live in a council semi and had more money than he has. Sadly the inconvenience posed by democracy has stalled his plans and unless he can pull off the sort of military coup in the usual style of the communist dictator, power will always be a pipe-dream seen through the smoke of 'under the counter' tobacco.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. did someone mention the Greens?

.. come on southy, here's your chance to have yet another misinformed rant at me.

Not misinformed, its Fact, they did bring in a Budget of Cuts, after there promise of a needs budget. so less of your excuses for this Right Wing Party that only offers the same as all the rest, oh what else was it they doing Building homes on a SSI meadow field.
Still they will learn come may next year when there is elections again after 2 years are up and Brigton and Hove council go to the polls

As supporter of TUSC and sympathiser of Southy's Socialist Party I can't share his sectarian attitude towards Greens and virtual obsession with Council in Brighton.

Considering Southy describing Greens as party of right on the basis 'if you are not with us you are against' is similar to philosophy of Neo-Con Bush,former president of USA, it could beg the question about his own left wing credentials.

Whether any individual likes Greens or hates them should not be the issue, they have won the Council wards in Brighton in large numbers through proper democratic process, where our TUSC only lost every seat contested. So to keep on moaning about them in Southampton is not only insulting voters of Brighton but also in my view is waste of time.

Southy's Socialist Party in its last life as Militant within Labour had some of it's members elected as councillors in Southampton, having sat in the same Labour Group I can only say that all of them bar Linda often supported right wingers in the Group and likes of I and late Brian Roost outside, and then went on to stitch us up... Hardly surprising the monopoly rights holders of true socialism our Trotskyist comrades also supported John Denham against Bryan Gould as Labour candidate for Soton Itchen. And then in Portsmouth were caught enrolling National Front members into the Labour Party.

With record like that I request Southy to stop throwing stones at others from inside a glass house with partly missing roof.

IF they are really serious about achieving some success Those within the Green Party with open minds and people in various socialist factions including socialists still stranded within NuLabour should rather than keep on attacking each other learn to cooperate,

And Southy should concentrate more on Redbridge where as SP member and TUSC candidate he has built a reasonable base.

The Green party will end up breaking up its coalition, some green members have all ready left the coalition of greens. 2 had turned up at the TUSC Confrence last mth.
I not saying all Greens will agree what went on in Brighton, there are a number say that was wrong, more wrong than normal as they got elected in on a Needs Budget, and what did they do on there 2nd term of office present a Cuts in Services and Jobs Budget, they are acting more like Labour and the Torys than a party for the people.

When are you going to face the fact that most Trotskyist members in Militant disguise not only behaved same way in Southampton but in fact even worse... Two even became members of Lib Dem. And one who was used to stitch me up in Coxford in fact within days was part of partnership with Lib-Dem in Hampshire County Council and officially complained about me not towing that immoral decision and demanded action against me for staying socialist and faithful to Labour's official policy???

Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

Well someone told me Southy was one of the first to take up Margaret Thatcher's offer and buy his council house on the Redbridge estate. Or is that just a nasty rumour put out by Tories to discredit our thorough bred Socialist Southy?

Nobody outside of Brighton takes the greens seriously. They may have genuinely held beliefs and I respect that but they're environmental idealism does not hit the mark with most people.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

.. and the Greens actually outvoted the Lib Dems in 4 wards.

My reading of the current situation is that NuLab is only a gnats crotchet to the left of the Tories with both occupying the centre to centre/right. The LibDems are to the left of both these, but utterly discredited. The Greens now occupy the sensible left – libertarian environmental realists.

Their strategy as outlined in this article is obviously to capture the LibDem vote and the Old Labour rump. I hope they succeed.

TUSC, on the other hand are just a slogan – No Cuts.

To quote the TUSC website, ‘Oppose all cuts to council jobs, services, pay and conditions’; ‘Reject increases in council tax, rent and service charges to compensate for government cuts’; ‘When faced with government cuts to council funding, councils should refuse to implement the cuts’; etc.

That’s all very well, as they are unelectable. However, when southy went off on one of his ‘I can’t admit I’m wrong’ exercises over Council Tax, he admitted, and rightly, that it is central government that tightly controls the purse strings of local government.

And local government income is being cut by this dreadful coalition year on year into the distant future.

So, perhaps southy would like to ‘square the circle’. Where is the money coming from to fund ALL the existing local services provided by local government (i.e No Cuts) if total income is being drastically reduced?

You see, it’s easy to be irresponsible in politics if you haven’t a hope in hell of ever being elected.

The Greens on the other hand ...

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

Yes something like that.

Considering Greens did not run that much campaign it wasn't too bad. I hold the view that by cooperating with rest of left more could have be achieved.

I still believe (yes I may be expecting the impossible) if parties on left of centre unite against parties of the right they could start making their mark. So from that point of view TUSC could be a good idea. Yes at the moment it is dominated by the SP but everybody in SP does not suffer from sectarian attitude like Southy does.

Looking from outside I think Greens in Southampton while well intentioned have no idea how to run election campaigns. Having helped them in the past I am disappointed with their ability of connecting with ordinary people.

Considering now Milliband has made it clear that his inspiration comes from Disreali, whole of the left should be stopping its civil war and unite to save the values of real Labour with a united party of the left. Otherwise judgement of history will be very harsh upon all of us.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

Yes something like that.

Considering Greens did not run that much campaign it wasn't too bad. I hold the view that by cooperating with rest of left more could have be achieved.

I still believe (yes I may be expecting the impossible) if parties on left of centre unite against parties of the right they could start making their mark. So from that point of view TUSC could be a good idea. Yes at the moment it is dominated by the SP but everybody in SP does not suffer from sectarian attitude like Southy does.

Looking from outside I think Greens in Southampton while well intentioned have no idea how to run election campaigns. Having helped them in the past I am disappointed with their ability of connecting with ordinary people.

Considering now Milliband has made it clear that his inspiration comes from Disreali, whole of the left should be stopping its civil war and unite to save the values of real Labour with a united party of the left. Otherwise judgement of history will be very harsh upon all of us.

.. unfortunately, they got it spot on in Life of Brian.

Peoples Popular Front.
Popular Peoples Front.

Splitters.

Fieldbean wrote:
Well someone told me Southy was one of the first to take up Margaret Thatcher's offer and buy his council house on the Redbridge estate. Or is that just a nasty rumour put out by Tories to discredit our thorough bred Socialist Southy?

When Southy has been accused of taking advantage of Margaret Thatchers 'Right to Buy' scheme, he points out that he bought his Council house before this scheme came about. Southy found a way to run his own business and purchase a local authority property before Mrs Thatcher even thought of it and he now spends his days tearing in to business and property owners for acquiring wealth while trying to work out how to spell 'hypocrite'.

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

Yes something like that.

Considering Greens did not run that much campaign it wasn't too bad. I hold the view that by cooperating with rest of left more could have be achieved.

I still believe (yes I may be expecting the impossible) if parties on left of centre unite against parties of the right they could start making their mark. So from that point of view TUSC could be a good idea. Yes at the moment it is dominated by the SP but everybody in SP does not suffer from sectarian attitude like Southy does.

Looking from outside I think Greens in Southampton while well intentioned have no idea how to run election campaigns. Having helped them in the past I am disappointed with their ability of connecting with ordinary people.

Considering now Milliband has made it clear that his inspiration comes from Disreali, whole of the left should be stopping its civil war and unite to save the values of real Labour with a united party of the left. Otherwise judgement of history will be very harsh upon all of us.

.. unfortunately, they got it spot on in Life of Brian.

Peoples Popular Front.
Popular Peoples Front.

Splitters.

freefinker, I honestly can't say who is not team player, but yes I have been saying for many years that overall British left is virtual photo copy of Life of Brian. So I agree.

There are so many good people scattered around in various groups on the left but sadly few sectarian minded people in virtually all groups keep on hindering the unity we need.

If this new leader of the Greens turns out to be like Caroline Lucas, I too have the feeling party will increase its vote, but without unity of whole left complete success may be difficult.

freefinker wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Southy please try to accept the fact that in free society everybody is entitled to hold his/her own views. Just because we may hold different views than others should not over ride the judgement delivered by voters in elections. Face the fact Greens have won in Brighton and in some wards did better than our TUSC in Southampton.

Only way to prove acceptability of our ideas is to put those to votes. As it is at the moment we on the left are not exactly doing well because we end up dividing our total votes.

So please try to think why we are failing. Part of the reason is that we on the left suffer from sectarian attitudes. It needs curbing.

But obviously you have different ideas.

.. oh Paramjit, it's an even more comprehensive drubbing than you suggest.

The Greens and TUSC fought each other in 9 Southampton wards in 2012.

Result: - Greens 9 - TUSC 0

.. and the Greens actually outvoted the Lib Dems in 4 wards.

My reading of the current situation is that NuLab is only a gnats crotchet to the left of the Tories with both occupying the centre to centre/right. The LibDems are to the left of both these, but utterly discredited. The Greens now occupy the sensible left – libertarian environmental realists.

Their strategy as outlined in this article is obviously to capture the LibDem vote and the Old Labour rump. I hope they succeed.

TUSC, on the other hand are just a slogan – No Cuts.

To quote the TUSC website, ‘Oppose all cuts to council jobs, services, pay and conditions’; ‘Reject increases in council tax, rent and service charges to compensate for government cuts’; ‘When faced with government cuts to council funding, councils should refuse to implement the cuts’; etc.

That’s all very well, as they are unelectable. However, when southy went off on one of his ‘I can’t admit I’m wrong’ exercises over Council Tax, he admitted, and rightly, that it is central government that tightly controls the purse strings of local government.

And local government income is being cut by this dreadful coalition year on year into the distant future.

So, perhaps southy would like to ‘square the circle’. Where is the money coming from to fund ALL the existing local services provided by local government (i.e No Cuts) if total income is being drastically reduced?

You see, it’s easy to be irresponsible in politics if you haven’t a hope in hell of ever being elected.

The Greens on the other hand ...

.. I see southy hides yet again when I ask the difficult questions.