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Hampshire's fluoride debate

Plan for fluoridation of Southampton's water to be challenged at the Royal Courts of Justice


THE controversial decision to add fluoride to Hampshire’s tap water WILL be examined by a high court judge, the Daily Echo can reveal.

An application for a judicial review into the plans to fluoridate almost 200,000 homes has been approved because of claims that health chiefs ignored public opinion.

If the legal challenge succeeds, it could ultimately mean the contentious scheme has to be scrapped.

Plans to move towards fluoridation in other parts of the country have already been put on hold while health bosses wait to see the outcome of the judicial review.

The case could now be heard at the Royal Courts of Justice in London, before the end of the year.

And Health Secretary Andy Burnham, who was forced to quit as vice-president of the pro-fluoride British Fluoridation Society after being promoted in a Cabinet reshuffle, could be called as an “interested party”.

Anti-fluoride campaigners have heralded the decision as a vital step in safeguarding individuals’ rights.

The court bid has been lodged by a Southampton woman Geraldine Milner who is angry because she believes South Central Strategic Health Authority went against the views of residents when it approved the plans earlier this year.

More than 10,000 people submitted their opinions during a public consultation, with 72 per cent of those from people living in the affected area – covering parts of Southampton, Eastleigh, Totton, Netley and Rownhams – saying they were against fluoridation.

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In a separate phone survey of 2,000 residents, 38 per cent of people questioned opposed the scheme, compared to 32 per cent in favour of it.

Ms Milner’s lawyers argue that the SHA’s board ignored those views when it unanimously approved fluoridation, which had been requested by Southampton health chiefs as a way to improve the dental health of the city’s youngsters.

Since the decision was made, campaign group Hampshire Against Fluoridation has handed over a petition of more than 15,000 names calling for the government to step in and stop the plans.

The group’s chairman, John Spottiswoode, said the judicial review is not just key for those fighting fluoride in Southampton, but is essential for the future of the right of the individual to choose how they are medicated.

“It’s extremely important, because it addresses a major issue of law for the whole country that has to be resolved,” he said.

“It’s something we must win, because if we lose we lose this fundamental right to control what goes into our bodies.”

Sean Humber, a partner at Leigh Day and Co Solicitors, who are representing Ms Milner, said the challenge is a serious one.

Cuttings from the Daily Echo, quoting Prime Minister Gordon Brown on the issue when he said the decision must rest with local people, will be used as part of the evidence.

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Mr Humber said: “The judge has said it raises, in stark form, a significant public law question,” he said.

“We’re pleased by the judge’s comments – he has basically said there are questions to answer, and it will be interesting to know what they will say. It proves this is not a frivolous or vexatious claim, as has been suggested.”

The second part of Ms Milner’s application, which argued the SHA had not paid full attention to the arguments against fluoridation, was rejected. The judge said the rest of the process was “unimpeachable”, but Leigh Day have lodged an appeal against that decision, that will be held in October.

● The Daily Echo has backed calls for the 200,000 Hampshire residents affected by the fluoridation plans to be given a referendum on the subject.

Campaigners, including several of the county's MPs, have argued that the public must be given a straight choice on the issue.

The move comes because many feel that the majority voice was ignored when South Central Strategic Health Authority gave fluoridation the green light, and a referendum is the simplest way to ensure the public will is upheld.

Strategic Health Authority

SOUTH Central Strategic Health Authority has always insisted it did everything it was legally required to during the public consultation into the fluoridation of Hampshire water supplies.

The body says it met or exceeded all of its statutory requirements by sending out leaflets to most affected areas, holding drop-in information sessions, and three Question Timestyle debate sessions where experts from both sides gave arguments for and against.

The SHA was unavailable to comment on the judicial review application being approved, but it has previously said it has set aside £400,000 to fight the legal challenge to its decision.

It is not known if the SHA will appeal against the judge’s move to accept the application, but it argues that the legislation it followed required it to canvass public opinion and have regard to it, but ultimately to look at the scientific evidence and what people’s views were based on.


Comments(26)

goard says...
11:05am Mon 7 Sep 09

So we are getting near the final decision on fluoride. At times I feel the Health Chiefs have an alterior motive besides giving the water company another golden handshake because why are they so dogmatic. Also, I do wonder if our water is so contaminated with foul water they want to put in fluoride to make it more safe. I hear the seas around us are contaminated with sewarage - so how about all the water seeping through our watercourses from farm sewerage and chemicals, also it is against the law for households to put dangerous liquids down the drains - but not everyone is law abiding - fluoride is just another dangerous substance to add to the cocktail. There is no end to secretcy when it comes to money. Well, its a thought.

goard

dballadon says...
12:11pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Has anyone actually tasted the water in this city? its DISGUSTING..so now they decide to add more crap to the water, I guess they just want us not to drink the water at all! idiots!

southy says...
12:30pm Mon 7 Sep 09

dballadon wrote:
Has anyone actually tasted the water in this city? its DISGUSTING..so now they decide to add more crap to the water, I guess they just want us not to drink the water at all! idiots!
that it is, but you need to take into account that water from here comes from a chalk river, with a mix of acid river from the new forest, and is classed has a semi hard water area. its taste different from water taken from a hard water area ( lime ) or water from a soft water area ( hard rock like granite )

if this fluoride is added to the water the socialist party if in power will have it removed.

Ozmosis says...
12:31pm Mon 7 Sep 09

It's all a scam by the bottled water companies to make our water so foul tasting that we all buy their products.

Possibly!

Jerry Parsons says...
12:39pm Mon 7 Sep 09

We've just come back from a farm in Wales where their water is pumped out of the ground...great tasting, so we brought back some bottles of it. What a difference to the tap water here.

I accept Southy's argument about sources, but please... couldn't they just clean the water & then leave it alone?

goard says...
12:46pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Southy, what is it about you - like a rough hewn rock but able to construe the real realities of life. I just see black and white - on the otherhand there is so much more to rock, chalk and granite foundation producing a different formation, but unhappily what is introduced before it reaches our consumption? DO we need a 'Water Police'?

goard

Oracle1 says...
1:16pm Mon 7 Sep 09

This is good news provided it is dealt with fairly. People power has got it this far, without it we would be definitely looking at it being added next year.




southy says...
1:43pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Jerry Parsons wrote:
We've just come back from a farm in Wales where their water is pumped out of the ground...great tasting, so we brought back some bottles of it. What a difference to the tap water here.

I accept Southy's argument about sources, but please... couldn't they just clean the water & then leave it alone?
well no they cant they need to add a type of chlorine to kill the water born germs that causes illness like cholera, and to keep the water fresh and not go stale.

bumblysaint says...
2:11pm Mon 7 Sep 09

It won't matter what we the public want,no one will accept our point of view,they will just go ahead and do exactly what they want.
We'll see just how good our local M.Ps.are now.

southy says...
2:36pm Mon 7 Sep 09

bumblysaint wrote:
It won't matter what we the public want,no one will accept our point of view,they will just go ahead and do exactly what they want.
We'll see just how good our local M.Ps.are now.
the socialist party will bumblysaint, they are a party by the people, for the people, and they will listen to the people. and are working with the people now and helping out, thats why the socialist party is gaining ground very fast, its all so why you been seeing a lot of false propaganda about the socialist party from the capitalist partys and its true blue supporters.

Andy Locks Heath says...
3:41pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Hi Southy, I am very concerned about this false propaganda against the Socialist Partybeing put out by capitalist parties. Could you give us a specific example including validated references? ta.

bumblysaint says...
3:45pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Southy, i'm gonna try and find out things about the
Socialist Party you're on about.
If what you say is fact and i'm not doubting you,this could be the party we're looking for.
Thanks Southy.

freemantlegirl2 says...
4:33pm Mon 7 Sep 09

I'm lost here? how have the SWP been involved in Hampshire Against Fluoridation ? We could all promise things 'if we were elected'.... in reality, that just isn't going to happen....

southy says...
4:54pm Mon 7 Sep 09

bumblysaint wrote:
Southy, i'm gonna try and find out things about the
Socialist Party you're on about.
If what you say is fact and i'm not doubting you,this could be the party we're looking for.
Thanks Southy.
it is it part of the cnwp campaign, there are other groups that use to support the labour party, a part from the socialist party, like socialist workers, workers liberty, socialist labour party, they all use to be part of the labour party pre-80's, they still have one or two mp.s in the labour party who will be leaving the labour party at the end of term of office. people like mp dave nellist have all ready left.

andy take a look at what happen to dave nellist constituency and this is the labour government that done this, they all so taken away a large number of voters that would of voted for the socialist party and made it southampton north and part of romsey, not that it will make any difference to the out come.
take a look at some of the posts on this site andy, i know there are 2 members of the tory party, posts on here there might be even more. have a look at what the sun news paper says about the socialist party, a news paper that cant be trusted in any way, its a sheep in wolf clothing, a true blue capitalist paper, this news paper is that bad they cant sale a single paper in liverpool, because of what they said and done. the propaganda is there andy you just not noticed it yet.

southy says...
4:58pm Mon 7 Sep 09

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
I'm lost here? how have the SWP been involved in Hampshire Against Fluoridation ? We could all promise things 'if we were elected'.... in reality, that just isn't going to happen....
dont get sp mix up with the swp they are 2 difference socialist groups.

Andy Locks Heath says...
5:25pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Yes Southy but you haven't given a straight answer. The Sun may give opinions that you don't like but that does not make those opinions propaganda. You've made a few random statements but you've done what other politicians do and avoided answering a straight question. Give us a specific example of propaganda - ie a lie - perpetrated by a capitalist party against the Socialist party. The Sun is not a politicial party - it is a newspaper (just). You are also talking about the work of the Boundary Commission which is nothing to do with what was asked. You are also pledging to remove fluoride in advance of a referendum -how can pre-judging the outcome be "democratic"?

southy says...
8:16pm Mon 7 Sep 09

andy dont mistake the sun news paper, merdock and top board members and the editor, are all tory party members, and gives funds to the tory party. murdock is a member of 3 capitalist partys in 3 different countrys. and the paper is used to carry tory party ideas and propaganda, to the prdinary working man, and the only reason they will support labour now is because it a capitalist party. they would not and did not support labour back in 1979 or at any general election in the 80's, the sun stop being a working man paper the moment murdock took it over.

southy says...
8:26pm Mon 7 Sep 09

.andy said "" You are also talking about the work of the Boundary Commission which is nothing to do with what was asked. You are also pledging to remove fluoride in advance of a referendum -how can pre-judging the outcome be "democratic"?""

its funny how they hit all the area's where the socialist party is expecting to do very well.
if its in the water all ready, then you remove it, then ask people if they want it in there water or not. that is being democratic, but the out come on that is all ready known it will be a resounding no. you dont do what the sha do get a majority no vote but still force ahead with it, that is undemocratic, even you must agree on that.

Andy Locks Heath says...
10:58pm Mon 7 Sep 09

Southy you are revealing yourself as a fool, a liar or both. I have now asked you three times to back up your words with documented examples of this "propaganda" from "a capitalist party" as you said, against the Socialist party and instead you are backtracking and talking about the Sun Newspaper and now also adding guesswork of your own about Media executives. So what? A newspaper is not a political party but its staff are allowed to be - most of the Guardian staff are members of the Labour party. So what? but now you are going further and claiming that executives of news International are members of the Tory party. So what? There are other executives who are members of other parties butl New International is a media organisation not a political party. So stop trying to worm out of what you said and back up your own words with evidence. Give us the evidence of incorrect capitalist party smears against the Socialist Party (not press or media smears) as I asked twice previously or retract your statement and apologise if you dare. As it happens Murdoch is not a spokesman for any party certainly not the Tories - he instructed the editors of his English and Scottish papers to support Blair - not Major, nor Haig, not Duncan Smith and definitely not Howard, so you are wrong on two counts now. He has not supported the Tory party for its last four leaders - how wrong do you intend to be?

southy says...
11:35pm Mon 7 Sep 09

dont need to guesswork on who pays what to any political party andy, even you should know that it has to be open for all to see, and is publish openly once a year. Guardian staff not labour andy but green party, thats why they give so much intrest to green issues. the daily mirror supports the labour party. but murdoc commands and owns the international news group whitch also inclueds sky. a news paper may not be a polirical party but it can be its mouthpiece for a political party. watch what the sun and other news papers say when the next general election is called. they all supports one of the politcal partys, even the echo fall on the side of the torys.
let me repeat what i said early on ""and the only reason they will support labour now is because it a capitalist party. they would not and did not support labour back in 1979 or at any general election in the 80's,"" and the sun supported major just the once, but did not when blair took over the leadership of labour, why because when blair took over the labour it was no longer a socialist party but a capitalist party. and you just agreed with me in it your self by what you said ""he instructed the editors of his English and Scottish papers to support Blair - not Major, nor Haig, not Duncan Smith and definitely not Howard"" you need to relise that the labour party is not a socialist party and have not been one for a long while, they have been a capitalist party (tory labour) since blair was made leader of the labour party, why do you think they call it nu-labour for.

Andy Locks Heath says...
7:18am Tue 8 Sep 09

Everyone can now see that you cannot back up your own claim that the Soicalist Party is a victim of propaganda from the "capitalist parties". You had three chances to produce an example and all you have done is talk about newspapers as though none of us has ever read one. People reading this may wonder why this is important; well If you simply regard all criticism as "propaganda" it gives you an excuse to feel justified in not answering criticism - exactly as you have done in your last three posts. But unless you give straight answers to questions on your policy and actions you will never be accountable to the people. People know what newspapers do - that was never the issue but now you insist on talking about newspapers rather than parties! Newspapers talk poliitics and present political opinions - that is what they are there for - but you are talking Westminster not Wapping so be a man and talk about parties - you brought it up, now you back it up or back down. If you don't do it this last time everyone reading this can draw their own conclusions about you and your party.

freemantlegirl2 says...
7:31am Tue 8 Sep 09

southy wrote:
freemantlegirl2 wrote:
I'm lost here? how have the SWP been involved in Hampshire Against Fluoridation ? We could all promise things 'if we were elected'.... in reality, that just isn't going to happen....
dont get sp mix up with the swp they are 2 difference socialist groups.
My answer would still be... 'spot the difference'! I'm left of centre myself but am totally with Andy on this one, you seem to think we are all idiots with no perception. I feel annoyed actually that someone is using these columns to push an agenda and their own propaganda and promise the earth knowing that they will never be in a position to do what they claim. I look forward to reading reports of the SP doing 'very well' but I won't hold my breath!

southy says...
1:21pm Tue 8 Sep 09

andy all i going to say is watch and see, time will be my judge, and i dont need to back it any thing up. remember what i have said in the pass, and have come to light after i have said it, example the mental health wards being closed down and the big pay rise that the board had, sch making some of its work force redundant and being replace by agency, the great yarmouth dock workers being layed of and being replace with agency. vestas and other things, the list is a very long one. i told you about them before it got published in the news paper's. people go to the socialist party for help and tell them whats going on. and they help them out and supporting them, the socialist party do a lot of work for people behide the sceans.
why do you think the people in liverpool dont buy the sun news paper for, because it lies alot and is a propaganda mouthpiece for the capitalist partys and will only support a capitalist party, what did murdoch do when he first aquire the sun news paper, i tell you he got rid off all those who did not support the torys in the office. then there was wapping where he finished of the job, by bring in eric hammon union ( this union got expel from the tuc because of there actions) to replace the printer's union reason why because hammon supported the torys and the printer's did not. then look at some of the articals it has printed over the years, like that pilot who got the jet down. safely on the ground when the cockpit glass blown out. and the other pilot was hanging out of the window, the sun news paper slag him real bad while other news papers was calling him a hero, then there was the thing that happen at that football ground killing all those people the sun lied about what happen here to, and if they look into what happen in the pass that that ground, then they would of seen this has happen before at the same spot at the same ground, and the same error was made by the police has they had done before, and when the sun do run down the capitalist system it is watered down that much people dont think much of it, but when its a socialist system they rip right into it and add a few things to make it look worse than it is, this is propaganda, and its no difference than saying some thing like cuba dont have elections for there two tire parilement when this is untrue they do every 5 years and are not different from us again this sort of thing is propaganda and is aimed at running down the socialist.

Andy Locks Heath says...
3:25pm Tue 8 Sep 09

Southy you are embarrassment to whatever party you represent because instead of answering a simple straight direct question you just scatter random material as though that is an acceptable substitute. It isn't. Why would anyone want to support your party when you don't answer direct questions? Your post above makes you sound like you have some sort of insider access to the corridors of power when the only corridors you have access to are those in Redbridge Tower! Nobody but you has talked about the papers. Why do you keep bringing them up? I keep saying just talk about the parties and parties alone and not their supporters, but you either won't, can't or are too dumb to understand that difference. You said the capitalist parties smeared the Socialist party with propaganda, and now I've asked you for a specific referenced example of a party doing this it is clear you haven't got one. Everyone reading this will draw their own conclusions about whether you can back up your claims.

southy says...
4:08pm Tue 8 Sep 09

andy you miss the bigger picture of things, if it was not for the media you and me would never know what it going on in the corridors of power and it how they present the info to the media, and how the media tells you, and if you dont take notice of how it is pass on to you and how it is put. and if you cant see this for your self, then no body can help you. i gave a few example what the sun is like. they will give you lies to serve there own ends, just watch is said when the socialist declares that they will be standing in the elections, like i told you before time will be my judge.

goard says...
3:27pm Wed 9 Sep 09

Southie I bow to your vast knowledge of all things 'pie in the sky', Andy, sometimes I take my hat off to you for your intuitiative knowledge in all things andchallenging such as Southie - but the main problem is WATER. No one knows, its all a matter of 'know it all's who do not know'. We have to get our water from somewhere or somehow - but not to the extent its added with nefarious and noxious substances - DO you want your offspring minus legs and arms? answer carefully.

Goard


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