Hundreds sign petition to save Southampton's Ford Transit plant (From Daily Echo)

surely buying Transit vans would be the best course of action? In France the public sector utilities only use French built vehicles, it's a pity this isn't happening in the UK.

I know public money has recently been used to finance the banking industry, but no way should it be used to subsidise a large company such as Ford.
They are not even British.
Ford are holding a loaded gun and using the workers to try and force the Governments hand for funding, so they do not have to.
If Ford get this, where will it stop, as every other company in the country will use this as a precedent.

Condor Man wrote:
surely buying Transit vans would be the best course of action? In France the public sector utilities only use French built vehicles, it's a pity this isn't happening in the UK.

The problem for commercial vehicle sales is more widespread than just Ford.

"The depth of the recession was revealed today as truckmaker Volvo admitted demand across the Continent has crashed by 99.7% as it took orders for just 115 new lorries in the last three months. That compares to orders totalling 41,970 in the third quarter of 2007"

With that kind of reduction in demand Turkey may not be needed - at any price. Southampton may be making 10,000 vans next year.

Source for the report: Evening Standard
24 October 2008

I agree, HB, this is not something the taxpayer should finance. If the government wish to put together a package to help the affected workers find alternative employment, then all the better. But bailing out any old corporation that asks for it simply cannot be done. Borne out by the security word: cold-fact

Georgem wrote:
I agree, HB, this is not something the taxpayer should finance. If the government wish to put together a package to help the affected workers find alternative employment, then all the better. But bailing out any old corporation that asks for it simply cannot be done. Borne out by the security word: cold-fact

With downturn of the economic climate, lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected - including skilled workers. The Government needs to support manufacturing in this country, (not necessarily by ploughing millions of pounds of taxpayers cash) why not “persuade” government agencies who by fleet vehicles to buy from British workers. Yes, Ford is USA owned, but British workers build the vans…

hulla baloo wrote:
I know public money has recently been used to finance the banking industry, but no way should it be used to subsidise a large company such as Ford.
They are not even British.
Ford are holding a loaded gun and using the workers to try and force the Governments hand for funding, so they do not have to.
If Ford get this, where will it stop, as every other company in the country will use this as a precedent.

if you want to take away that loaded gun away from fords,the best way is to turn the southampton plant into a co-op,ford will soon come to them to build for them,they will not like the competition,it will not cost much to turn it into a co-op seeing ford dont own any thing at the southampton plant its all been paid for though the state and the profits that plant made in the pass

MyLeftFoot wrote:

Georgem wrote: I agree, HB, this is not something the taxpayer should finance. If the government wish to put together a package to help the affected workers find alternative employment, then all the better. But bailing out any old corporation that asks for it simply cannot be done. Borne out by the security word: cold-fact

With downturn of the economic climate, lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected - including skilled workers. The Government needs to support manufacturing in this country, (not necessarily by ploughing millions of pounds of taxpayers cash) why not “persuade” government agencies who by fleet vehicles to buy from British workers. Yes, Ford is USA owned, but British workers build the vans…

Nissan and Honda vehicles are also built in the UK - do we include those?

Ford of Britain is a British Company listed in Companies house, that employs 13,000 British workers directly and another 40,000 indirectly.
Although profits may be booked to the US parent company those profits are taxed in THIS country.
Ford is a major UK employer and contributor to the nations GDP, Balance of Trade (Ford is a major exporter)and to the Treasury.
Southampton plant itself will generate over £400 million in income to the Treasury this year - far more than the £100 million subsidy required to retool the plant.
Because Industry generates prosperity for the host country, states vie with each other to attract and retain industrial investment with taxpayers money.
Industrial Giants like Ford, Honda and Nissan do not have to pay for their own Plant. In the US they are getting $5billion of US Taxpayers, in Canada C$60 million.
Ford have just announced £70million of investment in Bridgend producing CO2 friendly engines. £13.5 Million is coming from the British taxpayer via the Welsh Assembly the othe £56 million is coming from the taxpayer via a £31 billion EU grant to carmakers investing in CO2 friendly engines.
Get this - Ford isn't paying for it.
You may also be surprised to hear that although Turkey is not a member of the EU it still receives 500million euros a year in EU Aid as economic stimulus. As does Romania.
Estimates as to how much the UK taxpayer contributes to the EU seem to vary considerabley but its in hte Billions.
Suffice to say that UK taxpayer money is being used to subsidise the export of our national strategic industries to the detriment of our own economy.
I urge people to read the wording of the petition carefully. Is it actually asking for a bailout?
go to:

transit.bigbig.com

Son of Fred wrote:-

"As does Romania"

Romania is an EU member and also a member of NATO. I don't agree with our membership of the EU but since we are in so are they.

Turkey has been a candidate member o the EU for nearly a decade. However they have been a useful member of NATO.

thats is true fred turkey do get 500million euros a year in EU Aid but its not for building vans,the aid is a part agreement for them so they will keep the oil pipe line open coming in from asia,Romania gets money because they are apart of the EU and is for to help them to bring them selfs up to date,most countrys in the EU get aid from the EU for one thing or another

Adrian Smith wrote:

MyLeftFoot wrote:

Georgem wrote: I agree, HB, this is not something the taxpayer should finance. If the government wish to put together a package to help the affected workers find alternative employment, then all the better. But bailing out any old corporation that asks for it simply cannot be done. Borne out by the security word: cold-fact

With downturn of the economic climate, lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected - including skilled workers. The Government needs to support manufacturing in this country, (not necessarily by ploughing millions of pounds of taxpayers cash) why not “persuade” government agencies who by fleet vehicles to buy from British workers. Yes, Ford is USA owned, but British workers build the vans…

Nissan and Honda vehicles are also built in the UK - do we include those?

Yes ,the building of the Nissan plant in Sunderland was subsidised with taxpayers money. It is more economically efficent to have people building cars and generating wealth than being sat at home drawing dole or flipping burgers at £5 p.h.

Should the government continue to use taxpayers money to retain wealth creating industries? Are you saying you prefer to watch them move away to invest in other countries, EU or otherwise?

Son of Fred wrote:

Adrian Smith wrote:

MyLeftFoot wrote:

Georgem wrote: I agree, HB, this is not something the taxpayer should finance. If the government wish to put together a package to help the affected workers find alternative employment, then all the better. But bailing out any old corporation that asks for it simply cannot be done. Borne out by the security word: cold-fact

With downturn of the economic climate, lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected - including skilled workers. The Government needs to support manufacturing in this country, (not necessarily by ploughing millions of pounds of taxpayers cash) why not “persuade” government agencies who by fleet vehicles to buy from British workers. Yes, Ford is USA owned, but British workers build the vans…

Nissan and Honda vehicles are also built in the UK - do we include those?

Yes ,the building of the Nissan plant in Sunderland was subsidised with taxpayers money. It is more economically efficent to have people building cars and generating wealth than being sat at home drawing dole or flipping burgers at £5 p.h. Should the government continue to use taxpayers money to retain wealth creating industries? Are you saying you prefer to watch them move away to invest in other countries, EU or otherwise?

You wrote "agencies who by fleet vehicles to buy from British workers".

I was merely pointing out that British doesn't just mean Ford.

"Ford of Britain is a British Company listed in Companies house, that employs 13,000 British workers directly and another 40,000 indirectly."

This is for taxation reasons only. It would be impossible for a foreign company to operate from offshore and tax at their homeland rates of taxation.

That does not mean that it isn't ultimately governed from offshore such as almost all companies from beyond the borders.

In a nutshell thats why the decisions Fords have made are irreversible. The mothership is in Detroit not Europe.

All the money in the UK wont change their minds and there is little if anything that the British can do if Ford chose to move to another country. It called freedom and 'freedom' is not 'free'.

Try going to a bookmaker and betting on it staying open and see what odds they offer if at all any.

lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected

Let's indeed be honest, and realise that "recession" isn't synonymous with "zero employment"

Georgem wrote:

lets be honest, if Ford closes, there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected

Let's indeed be honest, and realise that "recession" isn't synonymous with "zero employment"

Where did I suggest that was the case? Basic supply and demand will dictate the level of employment and skill mix needed in any one area a a specific point in time. So you seriously think that Southampton & the surounds has the ability to absorb such a flood to the labour market - no matter what the economic situation? Get real!!

it's a tough pill to swallow but people will have to retrain and may have to relocate if necessary. Sadly the global economy is no respecter of location.

Where did I suggest that was the case?

The bit where you said "there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected".

So you seriously think that Southampton & the surounds has the ability to absorb such a flood to the labour market - no matter what the economic situation?

And where did I say that? You stated that the local area would not, in the current economic climate, be able to re-employ all those affected, and I opined that a recession does not mean "no jobs". At no point did I make any outrageous claim, regardless of whether you decide to imply otherwise. If you've got a valid point, you'd be able to make it, without having to use such ridiculous rhetoric.

We don't know to what extent the affected workers' prospects will be affected by the economic climate, which is why I never claimed they would be fully unaffected. Likewise, you don't know that they won't be re-employable.

Georgem wrote:

Where did I suggest that was the case?

The bit where you said "there is no way the surrounding area will be able to offer employment to all affected".

So you seriously think that Southampton & the surounds has the ability to absorb such a flood to the labour market - no matter what the economic situation?

And where did I say that? You stated that the local area would not, in the current economic climate, be able to re-employ all those affected, and I opined that a recession does not mean "no jobs". At no point did I make any outrageous claim, regardless of whether you decide to imply otherwise. If you've got a valid point, you'd be able to make it, without having to use such ridiculous rhetoric. We don't know to what extent the affected workers' prospects will be affected by the economic climate, which is why I never claimed they would be fully unaffected. Likewise, you don't know that they won't be re-employable.

Okay, I understand your reasoning - I agree, we will not know the full impact of/if a closure takes place due to the ever changing picture & timescales.

However, I still stand by my original point, the Government should intervene to support manufacturing in this country as a whole, rather than letting the industry falter. There is no wrong in aiming to save the jobs of UK workers, rather than increasing tax payer’s funds into re-training employees of Ford. Could these positions (re trained for) potentially be non existent due to a wholesale increase in unemployment & the economic climate?

I’m interested in your view – do you see closure and re-training of staff to suit the local as the more viable option?