Pensions row continues at Ford (From Daily Echo)

If fords was in the public sector, we would of had 30 posts by now say tuff put up with it everyone else has too.

Good on you fords employers, public or private. Why should the pension you signed and paid in too be changed and diminished.

Dusty wrote:
If fords was in the public sector, we would of had 30 posts by now say tuff put up with it everyone else has too. Good on you fords employers, public or private. Why should the pension you signed and paid in too be changed and diminished.

Obviously you mean Ford employees

Yes, typo and thanks for pointing it out :o)

It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

What's the answer, put up with it and be thankful to have a job and pension, or strike. Both are rubbish, but striking is deadly, and younger workers should not be taught this art, as 60s and 70s strikes led to thatcher and industry gone. Management though, could not manage, and there was a lack of vision. In the building industry wages have fallen, and there are no provisions for pensions, but then that is a decision taken to a degree. I still think striking only gives a temporary short term solution. But it is never forgotten, and in many cases, the industry gets pulled down, and it's retail or call centre's here we come, and just talk of the good old days when this used to be a....etc, etc, but it's all gone now... Don't strike. Vote UKIP

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

clausentum wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

Do you seriously believe there is no such thing as class? Do you seriously believe there is no so such thing as the rich bashing the lower class? Do you seriously believe that there are no bad employers and the weak Labour Laws in the UK are fair?
.
There is overwhelming evidence of class society in the modern western world. Unjust laws are there to defend this status quo. We dont live in a society where oppurtunity is for everyone. Undeed oppurtunity depends on your wealth; the more wealth you have the more oppurtunity you have. If you cant see and understand that , its sad....
.
The correction I would like to make is your understanding of the Me society. That I'm afraid, dear boy , is the sole property of the Conservatives (and the employers!). They demonstratively support the completely misinformed notion that we live as individuals in society. In my opinion that is not the case.

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

clausentum wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

Do you seriously believe there is no such thing as class? Do you seriously believe there is no so such thing as the rich bashing the lower class? Do you seriously believe that there are no bad employers and the weak Labour Laws in the UK are fair?
.
There is overwhelming evidence of class society in the modern western world. Unjust laws are there to defend this status quo. We dont live in a society where oppurtunity is for everyone. Undeed oppurtunity depends on your wealth; the more wealth you have the more oppurtunity you have. If you cant see and understand that , its sad....
.
The correction I would like to make is your understanding of the Me society. That I'm afraid, dear boy , is the sole property of the Conservatives (and the employers!). They demonstratively support the completely misinformed notion that we live as individuals in society. In my opinion that is not the case.

You've proved my point.

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

clausentum wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

Do you seriously believe there is no such thing as class? Do you seriously believe there is no so such thing as the rich bashing the lower class? Do you seriously believe that there are no bad employers and the weak Labour Laws in the UK are fair?
.
There is overwhelming evidence of class society in the modern western world. Unjust laws are there to defend this status quo. We dont live in a society where oppurtunity is for everyone. Undeed oppurtunity depends on your wealth; the more wealth you have the more oppurtunity you have. If you cant see and understand that , its sad....
.
The correction I would like to make is your understanding of the Me society. That I'm afraid, dear boy , is the sole property of the Conservatives (and the employers!). They demonstratively support the completely misinformed notion that we live as individuals in society. In my opinion that is not the case.

Looking at your argument, it could be summed up by saying that feckless parents breed feckless children. Even when parents are total wasters they could encourage their offspring to go down a different route but it's too much effort in most cases. Individuals can succeed if they want to but the drive needed requires a sustained effort that lots of people find too demanding. When they get to the point in their life that they realise the error of their ways, they pound away at their keyboard as they use the Echo website to blame the rest of the world for their mistakes.

clausentum wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

clausentum wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

Do you seriously believe there is no such thing as class? Do you seriously believe there is no so such thing as the rich bashing the lower class? Do you seriously believe that there are no bad employers and the weak Labour Laws in the UK are fair?
.
There is overwhelming evidence of class society in the modern western world. Unjust laws are there to defend this status quo. We dont live in a society where oppurtunity is for everyone. Undeed oppurtunity depends on your wealth; the more wealth you have the more oppurtunity you have. If you cant see and understand that , its sad....
.
The correction I would like to make is your understanding of the Me society. That I'm afraid, dear boy , is the sole property of the Conservatives (and the employers!). They demonstratively support the completely misinformed notion that we live as individuals in society. In my opinion that is not the case.

You've proved my point.

But the point is you havent a point!!

Torchie1 wrote:

Ant Smoking MP wrote:

clausentum wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Militant Ford Worker wrote:
It's six years since Ford last gave their pensioners a rise - some of those years very profitable, like this last one has been.

What a way to treat the people who spent their lives building your business.

The pension scheme will be 'funded' from sources other than the company that the annuitants worked for. The performance of Fords won't necessarily have an effect on the annual rise which is discretionary and decided by the pension board of trustees. Fords will probably underwrite any shortfall if the scheme has underperformed. It's unlikely with a company of that size but if it was in control of the pension scheme and the schemes performance was linked to the company profits, what would happen if the company folded? Pension schemes need a degree of independence as the annuitants of the Mirror Group found when Robert Maxwell dipped his hand in the pot to fund other ventures. This independence means that the annuitants won't always see the companies successes in their pension payments.

Impressive informative objectivity. Alas, likely to sail over the uninformed subjective heads of those stuck in the rut of class warfare, employer-bashing, or signed-up members of the Me Society.

Do you seriously believe there is no such thing as class? Do you seriously believe there is no so such thing as the rich bashing the lower class? Do you seriously believe that there are no bad employers and the weak Labour Laws in the UK are fair?
.
There is overwhelming evidence of class society in the modern western world. Unjust laws are there to defend this status quo. We dont live in a society where oppurtunity is for everyone. Undeed oppurtunity depends on your wealth; the more wealth you have the more oppurtunity you have. If you cant see and understand that , its sad....
.
The correction I would like to make is your understanding of the Me society. That I'm afraid, dear boy , is the sole property of the Conservatives (and the employers!). They demonstratively support the completely misinformed notion that we live as individuals in society. In my opinion that is not the case.

Looking at your argument, it could be summed up by saying that feckless parents breed feckless children. Even when parents are total wasters they could encourage their offspring to go down a different route but it's too much effort in most cases. Individuals can succeed if they want to but the drive needed requires a sustained effort that lots of people find too demanding. When they get to the point in their life that they realise the error of their ways, they pound away at their keyboard as they use the Echo website to blame the rest of the world for their mistakes.

well at leastr you have explained why you and Clausentum come on here