Rubbish collections begin as threat of new strikes hang over Southampton

Daily Echo: Big city clean up begins as more strikes loom Big city clean up begins as more strikes loom

STRIKING bin men and street cleaners returned to work in Southampton today to begin clearing litter and rubbish blighting the city’s streets.

But frustrated residents face yet more misery as further strikes could be announced later today for next week.

Council leaders hope the breather in a bitter industrial dispute over pay cuts will give crews time to clear the backlog of rubbish spilling on to the streets.

Face-to-face talks between council and union leaders could resume as early as tomorrow after a three-hour session on Friday broke-up without agreement.

But two months of industrial action by up to 2,400 council workers is continuing and social workers are among staff ready to wal kout from Monday next week in a fresh wave of strikes.

Contractors hired by the council to pick up bags of festering rubbish continued to work over the weekend.

Up to ten hired trucks have been working the streets while bin men have been on strike.

Council leader Royston Smith said they would continue to be used next week as bin men catch up with rounds to get collections “somewhere near normal”.

Volunteer residents have also been sweeping streets and taking rubbish to the tip themselves.

Talks through the mediation service ACAS aimed at resolving the industrial dispute ended in stalemate three weeks ago.

Around 4,300 council workers last week signed new contracts under threat of dismissal, cutting their pay and conditions.

Unions have vowed to continue a campaign of industrial action to restore the pay cuts of between two and 5.5 per cent unless they can reach a negotiated deal with the council.

The council says the pay cuts will save 400 jobs. Other councils such as Shropshire are now following Southampton’s lead.

Comments (191)

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8:39am Mon 18 Jul 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Seems like the archaeic and bully boy negotiating skills of our Council leader still are not working.
.
Can we possibly get a representative from Monkey World to come in so that negotiations can come to a satisfactory conclusion please.
.
I am not so much worried about the emptying of bins ......... but i cant take much more of the "cut and paste" brigate that infiltrate this site.
.
Added to that, the paragraph after paragraph of Roystons spin doctor.
Seems like the archaeic and bully boy negotiating skills of our Council leader still are not working. . Can we possibly get a representative from Monkey World to come in so that negotiations can come to a satisfactory conclusion please. . I am not so much worried about the emptying of bins ......... but i cant take much more of the "cut and paste" brigate that infiltrate this site. . Added to that, the paragraph after paragraph of Roystons spin doctor. Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

8:47am Mon 18 Jul 11

StEmmosfire says...

Yep, saw the troops in Woolston this morning by the bridge with about 20 vehicles.
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We wont be bullied and held to ransom by these politically motivated Union Leaders.
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I think the majority of strikers now have seen sense.
.
Support for the strikes are dwinderling.
Yep, saw the troops in Woolston this morning by the bridge with about 20 vehicles. . We wont be bullied and held to ransom by these politically motivated Union Leaders. . I think the majority of strikers now have seen sense. . Support for the strikes are dwinderling. StEmmosfire
  • Score: 0

9:09am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

StEmmosfire wrote:
Yep, saw the troops in Woolston this morning by the bridge with about 20 vehicles.
.
We wont be bullied and held to ransom by these politically motivated Union Leaders.
.
I think the majority of strikers now have seen sense.
.
Support for the strikes are dwinderling.
Yep, Lone Ranger was spot on. Here is the first of the anti working people brigade. Won't be long before joenice,MGRA,clausen
tum,loosehead etc crawl out of their bunkers to start lobbing grenades! Makes me think they are somehow very close to the local politicians!
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: Yep, saw the troops in Woolston this morning by the bridge with about 20 vehicles. . We wont be bullied and held to ransom by these politically motivated Union Leaders. . I think the majority of strikers now have seen sense. . Support for the strikes are dwinderling.[/p][/quote]Yep, Lone Ranger was spot on. Here is the first of the anti working people brigade. Won't be long before joenice,MGRA,clausen tum,loosehead etc crawl out of their bunkers to start lobbing grenades! Makes me think they are somehow very close to the local politicians! Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

9:22am Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?
It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:29am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?
More like the Gestapo than the Taliban!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?[/p][/quote]More like the Gestapo than the Taliban! Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

9:43am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

9:45am Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:46am Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:49am Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote: It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?
More like the Gestapo than the Taliban!
"Talabin" not taliban, nothing like Gestapo, they were disciplined, very nasty, but totally organised, Godwins Law strikes too.
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?[/p][/quote]More like the Gestapo than the Taliban![/p][/quote]"Talabin" not taliban, nothing like Gestapo, they were disciplined, very nasty, but totally organised, Godwins Law strikes too. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:56am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached. Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:10am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

10:15am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping. Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:20am Mon 18 Jul 11

carl_sfc says...

Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP carl_sfc
  • Score: 0

10:25am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
really? they earn alot more than my husband who works for the new forest council and who i might add is on a pay freeze for the next few years too, the lowest amount for cuts was 19,500 thats over 4 and a half thousand more than what he gets, also 25k average?? yeah national average, we're on about southampton, what planet do you live on?, i know theyre back to work, like they have been numerous times over the last 8 weeks but they havent emptied my bin once, it is a matter of opinion who is to blame and i for one dont blame the council anymore, 19,500 is quite enough to live on im sure!!! just fyi, i only know of 2 people that earn 25k a year and one is an electrician in the private sector and the other is a manager of a large chain store, again in the private sector, public services dont pay that much, for services and the bin men should be thankful they get what they do, my hubby worked for 3 months on the new forest bins to help out and he said its really not that hard ( new forest dont as a rule have wheelie bins, only bags), less hours and he didnt get paid extra for it either, alot of people dont have jobs, maybe these strikers should think of that when theyre lazing at home when they should be doing their jobs!!! nothing you say will change my opinion so you can carry on arguing or just be quiet, i really dont care which ive said my piece!!!
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]really? they earn alot more than my husband who works for the new forest council and who i might add is on a pay freeze for the next few years too, the lowest amount for cuts was 19,500 thats over 4 and a half thousand more than what he gets, also 25k average?? yeah national average, we're on about southampton, what planet do you live on?, i know theyre back to work, like they have been numerous times over the last 8 weeks but they havent emptied my bin once, it is a matter of opinion who is to blame and i for one dont blame the council anymore, 19,500 is quite enough to live on im sure!!! just fyi, i only know of 2 people that earn 25k a year and one is an electrician in the private sector and the other is a manager of a large chain store, again in the private sector, public services dont pay that much, for services and the bin men should be thankful they get what they do, my hubby worked for 3 months on the new forest bins to help out and he said its really not that hard ( new forest dont as a rule have wheelie bins, only bags), less hours and he didnt get paid extra for it either, alot of people dont have jobs, maybe these strikers should think of that when theyre lazing at home when they should be doing their jobs!!! nothing you say will change my opinion so you can carry on arguing or just be quiet, i really dont care which ive said my piece!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

10:28am Mon 18 Jul 11

Wupperty says...

re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo
d god.
re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo d god. Wupperty
  • Score: 0

10:28am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
[quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much. Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:29am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

10:30am Mon 18 Jul 11

rightway says...

Once this issue is finally resolved I think the spotlight should be focused on Rambo royston and his cohorts. Their handling of the dispute has been pathetic, how anyone would ever thing to employ these clowns let alone vote for them beggars belief.
Once this issue is finally resolved I think the spotlight should be focused on Rambo royston and his cohorts. Their handling of the dispute has been pathetic, how anyone would ever thing to employ these clowns let alone vote for them beggars belief. rightway
  • Score: 0

10:32am Mon 18 Jul 11

carl_sfc says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
£21k, let us bear in mind that the majority of graduates get paid less than that for having studied hard for 3/4 years and adding to the economy for the most part. McDonalds staff ge paid the minimum wage I can assure you which on a full time basis equates to around £13k before tax. So, let's get the facts right, no one in the private sector can strike effectively, they are paid more than staff in the private sector and are under less pressure than staff in the private sector. Prettty easy life for £21k if you ask me?
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]£21k, let us bear in mind that the majority of graduates get paid less than that for having studied hard for 3/4 years and adding to the economy for the most part. McDonalds staff ge paid the minimum wage I can assure you which on a full time basis equates to around £13k before tax. So, let's get the facts right, no one in the private sector can strike effectively, they are paid more than staff in the private sector and are under less pressure than staff in the private sector. Prettty easy life for £21k if you ask me? carl_sfc
  • Score: 0

10:33am Mon 18 Jul 11

Neilsaintsfan says...

Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?
Good question.


How can they have signed "under duress" and still strike? anyone who continues not to work should be sacked.... or is it a situation where they are not getting paid while striking so in the end the council will save so much money that the cuts will not be needed?
Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts? Good question. How can they have signed "under duress" and still strike? anyone who continues not to work should be sacked.... or is it a situation where they are not getting paid while striking so in the end the council will save so much money that the cuts will not be needed? Neilsaintsfan
  • Score: 0

10:34am Mon 18 Jul 11

pod says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.
absolutely spot on, I was in Bitterne precient yesterday, saw a mum outside iceland with a litle girl about 4, the mum waited whilst she insisted that the lil un walked back to the bin to put her wrappers in the bin even though it was full. Full marks to that mum and to the many many other people who are bringing their children up to be responsible for their own lives and to be respectful to others, there are plenty of us about and one day will will rule the world (or even if we don't maybe there will less litter).
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.[/p][/quote]absolutely spot on, I was in Bitterne precient yesterday, saw a mum outside iceland with a litle girl about 4, the mum waited whilst she insisted that the lil un walked back to the bin to put her wrappers in the bin even though it was full. Full marks to that mum and to the many many other people who are bringing their children up to be responsible for their own lives and to be respectful to others, there are plenty of us about and one day will will rule the world (or even if we don't maybe there will less litter). pod
  • Score: 0

10:36am Mon 18 Jul 11

Dusty says...

davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/ Dusty
  • Score: 0

10:37am Mon 18 Jul 11

Paramjit Bahia says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Seems like the archaeic and bully boy negotiating skills of our Council leader still are not working. . Can we possibly get a representative from Monkey World to come in so that negotiations can come to a satisfactory conclusion please. . I am not so much worried about the emptying of bins ......... but i cant take much more of the "cut and paste" brigate that infiltrate this site. . Added to that, the paragraph after paragraph of Roystons spin doctor.
Please do not insult the intelligent monkeys by putting their good name in the same post as certain former grease monkey and his nameless and faceless fan club
.
Little bit of sanity can only be introduced in this Council by removing the anti working people mob in the Council Chamber through the ballot box next May
.
I can understand your frustration, as I am never ever likely to support the Tories, their side kicks Lib-Dems, or even closet Conservatives of NuLabour against members of trade unions,
.
The same applies to highly biased and well organised filthy flag wavers against trade union members on this site or anywhere else. But in supposedly free society even they have got the same rights as we on the left would like to enjoy, which is called freedom of expression
.

While it can be annoying to read anti workers views expressed by virtually full time propaganda people of other side, the workers well wishers should try not to bite their bate. Responding only provides them with respectability they otherwise lack. So I suggest comparatively intelligent people should not sink to lowest of the low level of the other nasty side
.
Post your own views and let the readers decide for themselves, after all most of them are more intelligent than regular contributors.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: Seems like the archaeic and bully boy negotiating skills of our Council leader still are not working. . Can we possibly get a representative from Monkey World to come in so that negotiations can come to a satisfactory conclusion please. . I am not so much worried about the emptying of bins ......... but i cant take much more of the "cut and paste" brigate that infiltrate this site. . Added to that, the paragraph after paragraph of Roystons spin doctor.[/p][/quote]Please do not insult the intelligent monkeys by putting their good name in the same post as certain former grease monkey and his nameless and faceless fan club . Little bit of sanity can only be introduced in this Council by removing the anti working people mob in the Council Chamber through the ballot box next May . I can understand your frustration, as I am never ever likely to support the Tories, their side kicks Lib-Dems, or even closet Conservatives of NuLabour against members of trade unions, . The same applies to highly biased and well organised filthy flag wavers against trade union members on this site or anywhere else. But in supposedly free society even they have got the same rights as we on the left would like to enjoy, which is called freedom of expression . While it can be annoying to read anti workers views expressed by virtually full time propaganda people of other side, the workers well wishers should try not to bite their bate. Responding only provides them with respectability they otherwise lack. So I suggest comparatively intelligent people should not sink to lowest of the low level of the other nasty side . Post your own views and let the readers decide for themselves, after all most of them are more intelligent than regular contributors. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

10:43am Mon 18 Jul 11

pod says...

davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now. pod
  • Score: 0

10:43am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

Dusty wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/
Thinking exactly the same. "I won't touch it" she says. OK, sit in your own filth. I'm off to the tip with mine.
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/[/p][/quote]Thinking exactly the same. "I won't touch it" she says. OK, sit in your own filth. I'm off to the tip with mine. Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:43am Mon 18 Jul 11

Dusty says...

Wupperty wrote:
re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo

d god.
Is driving a lorry a below average job? gaining an HGV and CPC at the cost of £1000s? using state of the art in cab computer technology to proses missed bins and bins collected, cutting out admin staff. Do you think people that spend a small fortune on getting the licence and CPC to drive a lorry will bother to do it for minimum wage?

Yea any old chimp can do that. Maybe someone as ignorant as you can do it too?
[quote][p][bold]Wupperty[/bold] wrote: re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo d god.[/p][/quote]Is driving a lorry a below average job? gaining an HGV and CPC at the cost of £1000s? using state of the art in cab computer technology to proses missed bins and bins collected, cutting out admin staff. Do you think people that spend a small fortune on getting the licence and CPC to drive a lorry will bother to do it for minimum wage? Yea any old chimp can do that. Maybe someone as ignorant as you can do it too? Dusty
  • Score: 0

10:46am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

BMWDellboy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
Then you obviously like the sight of maggots and rats etc ? Or is it the fact that your husband is a just a lazy f*****
lol
[quote][p][bold]BMWDellboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]Then you obviously like the sight of maggots and rats etc ? Or is it the fact that your husband is a just a lazy f*****[/p][/quote]lol Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:49am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

pod wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.[/p][/quote]i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

10:52am Mon 18 Jul 11

Wupperty says...

Yeah I could do it thanks. But I pay my council yax to make sure I don't have to. And to clarify, my post referred to those who pick things up and put things down, not those who drive the truck (and I agree that anyone who has to pay for the licence or other costs should have this reflected in their wage)- although if you are trying to convinve me that of what you mentioned requires much thought then I'm amazed you have the ability to fire up your laptop.
Yeah I could do it thanks. But I pay my council yax to make sure I don't have to. And to clarify, my post referred to those who pick things up and put things down, not those who drive the truck (and I agree that anyone who has to pay for the licence or other costs should have this reflected in their wage)- although if you are trying to convinve me that of what you mentioned requires much thought then I'm amazed you have the ability to fire up your laptop. Wupperty
  • Score: 0

10:53am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

Dusty wrote:
Wupperty wrote:
re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo


d god.
Is driving a lorry a below average job? gaining an HGV and CPC at the cost of £1000s? using state of the art in cab computer technology to proses missed bins and bins collected, cutting out admin staff. Do you think people that spend a small fortune on getting the licence and CPC to drive a lorry will bother to do it for minimum wage?

Yea any old chimp can do that. Maybe someone as ignorant as you can do it too?
Well done Dusty. Wupperty must be a misprint of "Mupperty" - another plonker who has absolutely no understanding of Council Services. I wonder how many would think the same if they had to spend a week doing the job! Most would be laid up whining!
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Wupperty[/bold] wrote: re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo d god.[/p][/quote]Is driving a lorry a below average job? gaining an HGV and CPC at the cost of £1000s? using state of the art in cab computer technology to proses missed bins and bins collected, cutting out admin staff. Do you think people that spend a small fortune on getting the licence and CPC to drive a lorry will bother to do it for minimum wage? Yea any old chimp can do that. Maybe someone as ignorant as you can do it too?[/p][/quote]Well done Dusty. Wupperty must be a misprint of "Mupperty" - another plonker who has absolutely no understanding of Council Services. I wonder how many would think the same if they had to spend a week doing the job! Most would be laid up whining! Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

10:53am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

Dusty wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/
read my other post, i was making a point!! although i am disabled, outside my house is clean and tidy and has bin bags stacked neat and tidy double bagged too i might add, i wasnt making excuses just stating a fact, i never said my bin bags were in a mess the person just assumed!!!
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/[/p][/quote]read my other post, i was making a point!! although i am disabled, outside my house is clean and tidy and has bin bags stacked neat and tidy double bagged too i might add, i wasnt making excuses just stating a fact, i never said my bin bags were in a mess the person just assumed!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

10:56am Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors. southy
  • Score: 0

11:00am Mon 18 Jul 11

Dusty says...

Plus people have no cars on bin strike days :o/
Plus people have no cars on bin strike days :o/ Dusty
  • Score: 0

11:00am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

11:05am Mon 18 Jul 11

Tell it as I see it says...

Having taken a car load of rubbish bags to the dump on Saturday I was initially just a bit peeved when a contractors bin lorry cleared our street yesterday - yes a Sunday.

But what a difference from our usual crew! Quick, efficient all extra bags etc cleared and - something which is clearly beyond the usual council lot - my bin was returned to my house!!

In fact every bin in the street was put back at the right house so the usual spectacle of householders playing the weekly game of "hunt your bin" wasn't necessary!

Let the strikers stay out, I'll keep the contractors please.

Some posters on here really should get a grip on reality, McDonalds staff on £21k ?? Do me a favour, they earn nothing like and the same goes for Van drivers (16k ave), Shop workers (14-16k- if you're lucky enough to be full time these days),Clerical staff (15k), Postmen (15k).

The fact they start early in the morning is nothing to do with it, they either chose the job or it was the only one they could get.

All over this country councils (many of them Labour)are making similar and often even more hard hitting cuts to both jobs and services yet the Unions are supporting these actions to save jobs!!
Perhaps the union leaders would like to publicly state what they propose as an alternative - Either put up or shut up.

At the moment it seems that the union leaders and what seems to be a dwindling number of followers seem intent on keeping the strikes going.

Mr Strakers appearance on South Today last week only reinforced the notion that he was clueless and had no intention of negotiating nor any counter proposals.
All this, unfairly or not appear to indicate that the strike is politically motivated which is unfair on the workers particularly and the city in general.

We know the councils position so as I said lets hear some positive, constructive proposals MADE PUBLIC by the Unions so that both their members and the public at large can make their own minds up which might then go some way to both resloving the dispute and avoiding some of the more extreme views expressed in this forum.
Having taken a car load of rubbish bags to the dump on Saturday I was initially just a bit peeved when a contractors bin lorry cleared our street yesterday - yes a Sunday. But what a difference from our usual crew! Quick, efficient all extra bags etc cleared and - something which is clearly beyond the usual council lot - my bin was returned to my house!! In fact every bin in the street was put back at the right house so the usual spectacle of householders playing the weekly game of "hunt your bin" wasn't necessary! Let the strikers stay out, I'll keep the contractors please. Some posters on here really should get a grip on reality, McDonalds staff on £21k ?? Do me a favour, they earn nothing like and the same goes for Van drivers (16k ave), Shop workers (14-16k- if you're lucky enough to be full time these days),Clerical staff (15k), Postmen (15k). The fact they start early in the morning is nothing to do with it, they either chose the job or it was the only one they could get. All over this country councils (many of them Labour)are making similar and often even more hard hitting cuts to both jobs and services yet the Unions are supporting these actions to save jobs!! Perhaps the union leaders would like to publicly state what they propose as an alternative - Either put up or shut up. At the moment it seems that the union leaders and what seems to be a dwindling number of followers seem intent on keeping the strikes going. Mr Strakers appearance on South Today last week only reinforced the notion that he was clueless and had no intention of negotiating nor any counter proposals. All this, unfairly or not appear to indicate that the strike is politically motivated which is unfair on the workers particularly and the city in general. We know the councils position so as I said lets hear some positive, constructive proposals MADE PUBLIC by the Unions so that both their members and the public at large can make their own minds up which might then go some way to both resloving the dispute and avoiding some of the more extreme views expressed in this forum. Tell it as I see it
  • Score: 0

11:06am Mon 18 Jul 11

StEmmosfire says...

Is that mode, mean or median?
.
I would imagine you have used the mean average in order promote your arguement. This is fairly inaccurate, a better average would be to take the mode, the wage bracket that most people fall into. You will find that it is a lot less.
.
You also need to take into consideration locality? You cant compare wages in London with that of Southampton.
.
Many other variables to consider also.
.
But the end result would be the same, a very good wage for a very unskilled job.
.
Note: Driving a HGV would be a semi skilled job, hence paid a little more.
Is that mode, mean or median? . I would imagine you have used the mean average in order promote your arguement. This is fairly inaccurate, a better average would be to take the mode, the wage bracket that most people fall into. You will find that it is a lot less. . You also need to take into consideration locality? You cant compare wages in London with that of Southampton. . Many other variables to consider also. . But the end result would be the same, a very good wage for a very unskilled job. . Note: Driving a HGV would be a semi skilled job, hence paid a little more. StEmmosfire
  • Score: 0

11:08am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.
Well said
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.[/p][/quote]Well said Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:09am Mon 18 Jul 11

StEmmosfire says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
Is that mode, mean or median?
.
I would imagine you have used the mean average in order promote your arguement. This is fairly inaccurate, a better average would be to take the mode, the wage bracket that most people fall into. You will find that it is a lot less.
.
You also need to take into consideration locality? You cant compare wages in London with that of Southampton.
.
Many other variables to consider also.
.
But the end result would be the same, a very good wage for a very unskilled job.
.
Note: Driving a HGV would be a semi skilled job, hence paid a little more.”
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]Is that mode, mean or median? . I would imagine you have used the mean average in order promote your arguement. This is fairly inaccurate, a better average would be to take the mode, the wage bracket that most people fall into. You will find that it is a lot less. . You also need to take into consideration locality? You cant compare wages in London with that of Southampton. . Many other variables to consider also. . But the end result would be the same, a very good wage for a very unskilled job. . Note: Driving a HGV would be a semi skilled job, hence paid a little more.” StEmmosfire
  • Score: 0

11:09am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

11:18am Mon 18 Jul 11

rightway says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times
Well said Maine Lobster
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times[/p][/quote]Well said Maine Lobster rightway
  • Score: 0

11:19am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:21am Mon 18 Jul 11

ottermill says...

If bins haven't been emptied and you have already paid for the service you should be due a refund. After all is said and done if you don't pay your council tax SCC will definitely send their bully boys around to try to frighten you into paying and if the frighteners don't work SCC can have you committed to prison for non-payment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I doubt whether arrogant Rambo Royston will be amenable to giving refunds though.
If bins haven't been emptied and you have already paid for the service you should be due a refund. After all is said and done if you don't pay your council tax SCC will definitely send their bully boys around to try to frighten you into paying and if the frighteners don't work SCC can have you committed to prison for non-payment. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I doubt whether arrogant Rambo Royston will be amenable to giving refunds though. ottermill
  • Score: 0

11:22am Mon 18 Jul 11

Linesman says...

Well said ML. I suspect that the strike was instigated by the Council in an attempt to divert attention from their own short-comings. Am I the only one that thinks it strange that the Council is pushing ahead with the new multi-million pound Art Complex and Museum while, at the same time, pleading poverty and saying that they will have to sack workers if they do not take a pay cut?
Well said ML. I suspect that the strike was instigated by the Council in an attempt to divert attention from their own short-comings. Am I the only one that thinks it strange that the Council is pushing ahead with the new multi-million pound Art Complex and Museum while, at the same time, pleading poverty and saying that they will have to sack workers if they do not take a pay cut? Linesman
  • Score: 0

11:23am Mon 18 Jul 11

StEmmosfire says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
he is also WRONG about bin men not earning more than most people. He obviously doesnt understand about averages and quotes a mean average, but when he says "most" people he should quote modal average - that is around £17k - £20k.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]he is also WRONG about bin men not earning more than most people. He obviously doesnt understand about averages and quotes a mean average, but when he says "most" people he should quote modal average - that is around £17k - £20k. StEmmosfire
  • Score: 0

11:24am Mon 18 Jul 11

pod says...

I admit I made an assumption, an assumption on the facts as you wrote them.
you used the words maggots, rats and your families refusal to manage your waste in you first post.
I am truly sorry that your children are poorly and as a disabled mum with disabled children life must be difficult, not disputing that at all. What I do take task with is your attitude, most of us on here pay council tax and are not getting the service we pay for, aim your bitterness and spite at royston, he is taking 23 thousand expenses out of our taxes and not at the bin men who like your husband are trying to maintain a stand for their families by working. Most of these binmen with kids would be better off claiming benefits, instead of getting up in the small hours in all weathers to keep our streets clean.
You assumed I have a high horse and was on it, I do not have and I am not,
and I do not smoke a pipe.
take a chill pill, none of us like this situation.
I admit I made an assumption, an assumption on the facts as you wrote them. you used the words maggots, rats and your families refusal to manage your waste in you first post. I am truly sorry that your children are poorly and as a disabled mum with disabled children life must be difficult, not disputing that at all. What I do take task with is your attitude, most of us on here pay council tax and are not getting the service we pay for, aim your bitterness and spite at royston, he is taking 23 thousand expenses out of our taxes and not at the bin men who like your husband are trying to maintain a stand for their families by working. Most of these binmen with kids would be better off claiming benefits, instead of getting up in the small hours in all weathers to keep our streets clean. You assumed I have a high horse and was on it, I do not have and I am not, and I do not smoke a pipe. take a chill pill, none of us like this situation. pod
  • Score: 0

11:30am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
I think you will find most of the people at McDonalds are on minimum wage or just above, and many of them under 21, so are on the lower levels of minimum wage
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]I think you will find most of the people at McDonalds are on minimum wage or just above, and many of them under 21, so are on the lower levels of minimum wage Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:38am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

so its ok for you to give me attitude then you just dont appreciate it back???, my husband works outside year round from 7:30 in the morning til 3:30 in the afternoon and you dont hear him moaning, we get tax credits just like the bin men do and we manage so if losing £6 a week tops is going to break their bank maybe they need to cut back on their luxuries! dont think i havent emailed the council and given them wrathful paragraphs either because i have, but after all in this day and age a job is a job and there are many out there who would be willing to take the job as it stands!! my first post said nothing about my refusal to clean it up, there is nothing to clean up because it is tidy and stacked, i never said i had rats, i said at the sight of rats! maybe you should learn to differentiate between the words, my attitude is as it is if you dont like it dont read my posts!! and as for them being better off on benefits so would most of us, with 4 children to feed and clothe, we would be rolling in it, but my husband works hard because hes glad he has a job and isnt lazy. they should get back to work, once the union stopped paying their wages i wonder how long they would still strike for eh??
so its ok for you to give me attitude then you just dont appreciate it back???, my husband works outside year round from 7:30 in the morning til 3:30 in the afternoon and you dont hear him moaning, we get tax credits just like the bin men do and we manage so if losing £6 a week tops is going to break their bank maybe they need to cut back on their luxuries! dont think i havent emailed the council and given them wrathful paragraphs either because i have, but after all in this day and age a job is a job and there are many out there who would be willing to take the job as it stands!! my first post said nothing about my refusal to clean it up, there is nothing to clean up because it is tidy and stacked, i never said i had rats, i said at the sight of rats! maybe you should learn to differentiate between the words, my attitude is as it is if you dont like it dont read my posts!! and as for them being better off on benefits so would most of us, with 4 children to feed and clothe, we would be rolling in it, but my husband works hard because hes glad he has a job and isnt lazy. they should get back to work, once the union stopped paying their wages i wonder how long they would still strike for eh?? davesbabe
  • Score: 0

11:40am Mon 18 Jul 11

ColaCola says...

To be honest I keep changing my mind on whether I support the strikes or not. I am a legal secretary and have been for about 6 years now, I'm on £14k. I am struggling to pay my rent which is always paid 2 weeks late because I get paid in the middle of the month and I have a court summonds for council tax. This is because I just cannot afford to pay everything. My boyfriend is disabled so cannot work and his benefits are a joke. He lost 3 benefits when I moved in because I earn "so much" thats what the Council say!!!! I would like to add to the other people's comments who are living in the real world that the average wage is certainly not £21- £25K and the people writing that are obviously earning above average. However I would also like to state that unless you're earning shedloads, you spend what you earn and for someone to come along and take that away, that must be daunting. I am sure I am not the only one struggling to make ends meet and some people that are are probably earning more than me. If we are used to a wage, we spend that wage. Simple as.
To be honest I keep changing my mind on whether I support the strikes or not. I am a legal secretary and have been for about 6 years now, I'm on £14k. I am struggling to pay my rent which is always paid 2 weeks late because I get paid in the middle of the month and I have a court summonds for council tax. This is because I just cannot afford to pay everything. My boyfriend is disabled so cannot work and his benefits are a joke. He lost 3 benefits when I moved in because I earn "so much" thats what the Council say!!!! I would like to add to the other people's comments who are living in the real world that the average wage is certainly not £21- £25K and the people writing that are obviously earning above average. However I would also like to state that unless you're earning shedloads, you spend what you earn and for someone to come along and take that away, that must be daunting. I am sure I am not the only one struggling to make ends meet and some people that are are probably earning more than me. If we are used to a wage, we spend that wage. Simple as. ColaCola
  • Score: 0

11:40am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

It's a shame that some people think that the answer is always to strike, to try to resist job cuts or cuts to pay and conditions.

This always puts the employer under more stress, leading to more job cuts, heavier pay cuts, or the employer (if private sector) going bust

There is a difference between having sympathy for people who will have their pay cut, and having the common sense to realise that we cannot afford to keep public sector spending as high as it is.

When you think what generous terms people are on for redundancy, you realise we cannot afford to lose too many jobs to redundancy either.

Also, when you consider how generous the state benefit system is, how we cannot afford to put too many more people on benefits

Also, many of the services need to be done, so redundancy shouldnt be the primary answer

When the simple fact is that many public sector workers are paid much more than they would get (in terms of pay and conditions) than in the private sector, it becomes the simple common sense solution of choice....

.... we must cut the pay to public sector workers.

Any other options would be more painful, and lead to worse services and lower employment in the future.

Saying that you would have supported Toyota workers if they wanted to strike is not the point. If Toyota workers strike, they know that it damages their reputation back in Japan, and next time a new car is to be designed, the production may be sent elsewhere.

We have to remember that Britain is a small country.

While we have been historically quite powerful, the changes in China, India, Indonesia mean that Britain will struggle to compete.

If unions stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to hear the economic realities, then they doom themselves, and us with them.

Britain needs to try and make sure it has as many people as possible with good skills, that can justify earning the sorts of wages that can support our high cost of living.

Sadly, with economic migration and many people willing to come to Britain and work very hard for less than many Brits are, the workers at the lower skilled end of the market are going to come under increasing pressure.

They will have to wake up and get with the program, or we will see swathes of lesser skilled workers on benefits, in a similar way to how the miners in many cases ended up on the scrapheap

And if we do end up with more Brits unemployed, and incomers happpy to take their jobs for less, then there will only be one solution available to any government to redress the imbalance in the economy. The government will have to force people to work for their benefits, and reduce people to bare minimum for those who refuse.

Which will mean if they are not careful, that the same low skilled well paid public sector workers will end up doing the same jobs for benefit money on a workfare scheme if they cannot appreciate that the time has come for pay to be cut to what the market will support.

There is no malice in this argument, it is an economic inevitability
It's a shame that some people think that the answer is always to strike, to try to resist job cuts or cuts to pay and conditions. This always puts the employer under more stress, leading to more job cuts, heavier pay cuts, or the employer (if private sector) going bust There is a difference between having sympathy for people who will have their pay cut, and having the common sense to realise that we cannot afford to keep public sector spending as high as it is. When you think what generous terms people are on for redundancy, you realise we cannot afford to lose too many jobs to redundancy either. Also, when you consider how generous the state benefit system is, how we cannot afford to put too many more people on benefits Also, many of the services need to be done, so redundancy shouldnt be the primary answer When the simple fact is that many public sector workers are paid much more than they would get (in terms of pay and conditions) than in the private sector, it becomes the simple common sense solution of choice.... .... we must cut the pay to public sector workers. Any other options would be more painful, and lead to worse services and lower employment in the future. Saying that you would have supported Toyota workers if they wanted to strike is not the point. If Toyota workers strike, they know that it damages their reputation back in Japan, and next time a new car is to be designed, the production may be sent elsewhere. We have to remember that Britain is a small country. While we have been historically quite powerful, the changes in China, India, Indonesia mean that Britain will struggle to compete. If unions stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to hear the economic realities, then they doom themselves, and us with them. Britain needs to try and make sure it has as many people as possible with good skills, that can justify earning the sorts of wages that can support our high cost of living. Sadly, with economic migration and many people willing to come to Britain and work very hard for less than many Brits are, the workers at the lower skilled end of the market are going to come under increasing pressure. They will have to wake up and get with the program, or we will see swathes of lesser skilled workers on benefits, in a similar way to how the miners in many cases ended up on the scrapheap And if we do end up with more Brits unemployed, and incomers happpy to take their jobs for less, then there will only be one solution available to any government to redress the imbalance in the economy. The government will have to force people to work for their benefits, and reduce people to bare minimum for those who refuse. Which will mean if they are not careful, that the same low skilled well paid public sector workers will end up doing the same jobs for benefit money on a workfare scheme if they cannot appreciate that the time has come for pay to be cut to what the market will support. There is no malice in this argument, it is an economic inevitability Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:40am Mon 18 Jul 11

StEmmosfire says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
I think you will find most of the people at McDonalds are on minimum wage or just above, and many of them under 21, so are on the lower levels of minimum wage
The left wing propaganda machine is in force today I think?
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]I think you will find most of the people at McDonalds are on minimum wage or just above, and many of them under 21, so are on the lower levels of minimum wage[/p][/quote]The left wing propaganda machine is in force today I think? StEmmosfire
  • Score: 0

11:41am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Labour's approach, with much higher redundancies, will maximise public spending.... when we have to cut it

(1) more redundancies leads to big redundancy payouts

(2) more redundancies means the well paid people left working get to keep more of their lucrative pay and perks

(3) more redundancies means lots more people on benefits being propped at vast expensive to the taxpayer.

We have to maximise employment, and minimise expenditure.

We need to improve productivity

We need to try and keep inflation in check

All this adds up to pay cuts
Labour's approach, with much higher redundancies, will maximise public spending.... when we have to cut it (1) more redundancies leads to big redundancy payouts (2) more redundancies means the well paid people left working get to keep more of their lucrative pay and perks (3) more redundancies means lots more people on benefits being propped at vast expensive to the taxpayer. We have to maximise employment, and minimise expenditure. We need to improve productivity We need to try and keep inflation in check All this adds up to pay cuts Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:42am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

I do believe the council are on the side of the workers, trying to maintain employment and minimise people being out of work is the best way to reduce expenditure (which has to be done) while minimising impact to workers, and sharing the burden across all council staff, with the higher paid taking more than their share of the burden

I think this is self evident surely?

The council have no choice but to make cuts, surely the concern for the workers is obvious from the reasonable offers that have been made.

The dismissal and reengagement process was a necessity when the unions didnt negotiate.

By being a barrier to change, the unions have harmed their members, because they havent recognised that change is inevitable. Fortunately other union reps around the country realise how big the economic problems are and have been much more pragmatic
I do believe the council are on the side of the workers, trying to maintain employment and minimise people being out of work is the best way to reduce expenditure (which has to be done) while minimising impact to workers, and sharing the burden across all council staff, with the higher paid taking more than their share of the burden I think this is self evident surely? The council have no choice but to make cuts, surely the concern for the workers is obvious from the reasonable offers that have been made. The dismissal and reengagement process was a necessity when the unions didnt negotiate. By being a barrier to change, the unions have harmed their members, because they havent recognised that change is inevitable. Fortunately other union reps around the country realise how big the economic problems are and have been much more pragmatic Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

11:45am Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service. It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks. So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth. Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services. How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens. southy
  • Score: 0

11:47am Mon 18 Jul 11

Maine Lobster says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
The "five offers" you quote fail to mention that at least two of those were impossible to impliment because those who put them together in the Council were ignorant of the different arrangements for the wide scope of jobs across the Council.

The unions do accept that savings are innevitable, so why did the Council spend £25m on Guildhall square, £15m on the Titanic museum and £12k on a carpet for the Chief Exec not to mention the multi thousand pound relocation package he got for coming here?
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]The "five offers" you quote fail to mention that at least two of those were impossible to impliment because those who put them together in the Council were ignorant of the different arrangements for the wide scope of jobs across the Council. The unions do accept that savings are innevitable, so why did the Council spend £25m on Guildhall square, £15m on the Titanic museum and £12k on a carpet for the Chief Exec not to mention the multi thousand pound relocation package he got for coming here? Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

11:47am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times
so if the union wasnt paying their wages would they still be striking??? obviously the people that signed the contracts werent all that bothered about the paycuts as they signed, to be fair the council has given 5 options and the union refused them all, oh and try to grasp the fact that i really dont care, the public pay for a service were not getting, when a child throws a tantrum you dont give in to it or they turn out to be a brat, the strikers are behaving no better than toddlers throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way, negotiations have been put on the table and the strikers declined them all, its the workers with a large amount in wages that are protesting, at one point i believe the wage cap was i think 22k, if the bin men are on that then most people are in the wrong job!!!
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times[/p][/quote]so if the union wasnt paying their wages would they still be striking??? obviously the people that signed the contracts werent all that bothered about the paycuts as they signed, to be fair the council has given 5 options and the union refused them all, oh and try to grasp the fact that i really dont care, the public pay for a service were not getting, when a child throws a tantrum you dont give in to it or they turn out to be a brat, the strikers are behaving no better than toddlers throwing a tantrum because they cant get their own way, negotiations have been put on the table and the strikers declined them all, its the workers with a large amount in wages that are protesting, at one point i believe the wage cap was i think 22k, if the bin men are on that then most people are in the wrong job!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

11:53am Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.
i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service. It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks. So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth. Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services. How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.[/p][/quote]i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

11:57am Mon 18 Jul 11

tootle says...

Question is who will gain from this action. Council - no, not even if they win. Unions, only if they win. Andy Straker - been strangely silent since the TV appearance, so a loser. The workers - hmm, no way - they've proved most households can manage monthly never mind fortnightly collections, the libraries are overstaffed and, to be honest, there's probably too many of them,(likes libraries), street cleaners - well our streets aren't too bad, get community sentences to empty bins and collect litter, itchen bridge collectors - being automated anyways, traffic wardens - are we paying more for their wages than is lost in parking?, put barriers up where possible, employ the odd bod to collect meters when people honestly pay and leave dangerous parking offences to the police . The public - losers as we will end up paying for this mess regardless who wins.

Me I think it's time for knocking heads together(union and council alike) and sitting down and negotiating PROPERLY.
Question is who will gain from this action. Council - no, not even if they win. Unions, only if they win. Andy Straker - been strangely silent since the TV appearance, so a loser. The workers - hmm, no way - they've proved most households can manage monthly never mind fortnightly collections, the libraries are overstaffed and, to be honest, there's probably too many of them,(likes libraries), street cleaners - well our streets aren't too bad, get community sentences to empty bins and collect litter, itchen bridge collectors - being automated anyways, traffic wardens - are we paying more for their wages than is lost in parking?, put barriers up where possible, employ the odd bod to collect meters when people honestly pay and leave dangerous parking offences to the police . The public - losers as we will end up paying for this mess regardless who wins. Me I think it's time for knocking heads together(union and council alike) and sitting down and negotiating PROPERLY. tootle
  • Score: 0

11:57am Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

Linesman wrote:
Well said ML. I suspect that the strike was instigated by the Council in an attempt to divert attention from their own short-comings. Am I the only one that thinks it strange that the Council is pushing ahead with the new multi-million pound Art Complex and Museum while, at the same time, pleading poverty and saying that they will have to sack workers if they do not take a pay cut?
Thats why Royston Smith got that £5 million loan from croydon Council, before any industral action was taken, it was to fight the strikers.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: Well said ML. I suspect that the strike was instigated by the Council in an attempt to divert attention from their own short-comings. Am I the only one that thinks it strange that the Council is pushing ahead with the new multi-million pound Art Complex and Museum while, at the same time, pleading poverty and saying that they will have to sack workers if they do not take a pay cut?[/p][/quote]Thats why Royston Smith got that £5 million loan from croydon Council, before any industral action was taken, it was to fight the strikers. southy
  • Score: 0

11:59am Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
The "five offers" you quote fail to mention that at least two of those were impossible to impliment because those who put them together in the Council were ignorant of the different arrangements for the wide scope of jobs across the Council.

The unions do accept that savings are innevitable, so why did the Council spend £25m on Guildhall square, £15m on the Titanic museum and £12k on a carpet for the Chief Exec not to mention the multi thousand pound relocation package he got for coming here?
As a resident, I approve of projects such as Guildhall square, the arts centre, and the titanic museum

I dont mean that the cost of those have necessarily been good value, as I havent looked into the costs, but councils do need to put in place measures to make a town attractive, to create employment, and to attract tourists. I think all of these projects are excellent projects, and I am proud of them.

I have been fed up with Southampton losing ground to places like portsmouth in previous years

I am fed up of people on the around hampshire seeing southampton as a cultural desert largely full of philistines.

Southampton needs to put itself back on the map, and needs to get some pride back, and I think these projects are wonderful.

I can understand why workers facing pay cuts get irritated by seeing big ticket projects going on, but the council have to balance of lot of different priorities.

I have no problem with accepting the need to invest while trying to cut recurring overheads
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]The "five offers" you quote fail to mention that at least two of those were impossible to impliment because those who put them together in the Council were ignorant of the different arrangements for the wide scope of jobs across the Council. The unions do accept that savings are innevitable, so why did the Council spend £25m on Guildhall square, £15m on the Titanic museum and £12k on a carpet for the Chief Exec not to mention the multi thousand pound relocation package he got for coming here?[/p][/quote]As a resident, I approve of projects such as Guildhall square, the arts centre, and the titanic museum I dont mean that the cost of those have necessarily been good value, as I havent looked into the costs, but councils do need to put in place measures to make a town attractive, to create employment, and to attract tourists. I think all of these projects are excellent projects, and I am proud of them. I have been fed up with Southampton losing ground to places like portsmouth in previous years I am fed up of people on the around hampshire seeing southampton as a cultural desert largely full of philistines. Southampton needs to put itself back on the map, and needs to get some pride back, and I think these projects are wonderful. I can understand why workers facing pay cuts get irritated by seeing big ticket projects going on, but the council have to balance of lot of different priorities. I have no problem with accepting the need to invest while trying to cut recurring overheads Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

12:05pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Condor Man says...

I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.
I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves. Condor Man
  • Score: 0

12:05pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

tootle wrote:
Question is who will gain from this action. Council - no, not even if they win. Unions, only if they win. Andy Straker - been strangely silent since the TV appearance, so a loser. The workers - hmm, no way - they've proved most households can manage monthly never mind fortnightly collections, the libraries are overstaffed and, to be honest, there's probably too many of them,(likes libraries), street cleaners - well our streets aren't too bad, get community sentences to empty bins and collect litter, itchen bridge collectors - being automated anyways, traffic wardens - are we paying more for their wages than is lost in parking?, put barriers up where possible, employ the odd bod to collect meters when people honestly pay and leave dangerous parking offences to the police . The public - losers as we will end up paying for this mess regardless who wins.

Me I think it's time for knocking heads together(union and council alike) and sitting down and negotiating PROPERLY.
I disagree that we can manage fortnightly bin collections, many people will have been taking their bin bags to the tip weekly. It still needs doing, and the locals will want the council doing it again once the strikes are over.
[quote][p][bold]tootle[/bold] wrote: Question is who will gain from this action. Council - no, not even if they win. Unions, only if they win. Andy Straker - been strangely silent since the TV appearance, so a loser. The workers - hmm, no way - they've proved most households can manage monthly never mind fortnightly collections, the libraries are overstaffed and, to be honest, there's probably too many of them,(likes libraries), street cleaners - well our streets aren't too bad, get community sentences to empty bins and collect litter, itchen bridge collectors - being automated anyways, traffic wardens - are we paying more for their wages than is lost in parking?, put barriers up where possible, employ the odd bod to collect meters when people honestly pay and leave dangerous parking offences to the police . The public - losers as we will end up paying for this mess regardless who wins. Me I think it's time for knocking heads together(union and council alike) and sitting down and negotiating PROPERLY.[/p][/quote]I disagree that we can manage fortnightly bin collections, many people will have been taking their bin bags to the tip weekly. It still needs doing, and the locals will want the council doing it again once the strikes are over. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

12:06pm Mon 18 Jul 11

mummsie says...

Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!" mummsie
  • Score: 0

12:13pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Condor Man wrote:
I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.
Selling assets would be a disaster

This just leads to a short term splurge in money, with ever increasing recurring expenditure, which would drag the council into an ever bigger financial mess

One of the main reasons Woolworths went under? Sale and leaseback of assets

The parent group Kingfisher’s decision to sell and leaseback more than 180 Woolworths stores in 2001, raising £614m for Kingfisher but committing Woolworths to 25-year leases with a minimum annual rent rise of 2.5% a year. That was simply unsustainable.

By the way, the current approach does mean those workers who are highest paid do lose more than those at the bottom.
[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.[/p][/quote]Selling assets would be a disaster This just leads to a short term splurge in money, with ever increasing recurring expenditure, which would drag the council into an ever bigger financial mess One of the main reasons Woolworths went under? Sale and leaseback of assets The parent group Kingfisher’s decision to sell and leaseback more than 180 Woolworths stores in 2001, raising £614m for Kingfisher but committing Woolworths to 25-year leases with a minimum annual rent rise of 2.5% a year. That was simply unsustainable. By the way, the current approach does mean those workers who are highest paid do lose more than those at the bottom. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.
i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!!
It has every thing to do with Royston Smith, And has every thing to do about saving there jobs, 250 jobs are to go any way, next year if this Tory Council is still in control there will be 800 jobs gone and the year after that another 700 jobs are to go.
Don't be fooled in what Royston Smith is saying about saving 400 jobs thats only for this year and they will be gone next year. They want private company to take over the public services and it will cost you a hell alot more than it do now, but your Council Tax will not go down it will still go up.
And yes they will make it a seperate bill for rubbish once its been privatise, and you will end up paying at lest £22 per mth to have your bins emptied, you can find this system in the USA in most states, and this is what your Capitalist wants here in the UK, where you pay a private company for each of your services, Its what is known has a Capitalist Corporate System.
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service. It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks. So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth. Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services. How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.[/p][/quote]i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!![/p][/quote]It has every thing to do with Royston Smith, And has every thing to do about saving there jobs, 250 jobs are to go any way, next year if this Tory Council is still in control there will be 800 jobs gone and the year after that another 700 jobs are to go. Don't be fooled in what Royston Smith is saying about saving 400 jobs thats only for this year and they will be gone next year. They want private company to take over the public services and it will cost you a hell alot more than it do now, but your Council Tax will not go down it will still go up. And yes they will make it a seperate bill for rubbish once its been privatise, and you will end up paying at lest £22 per mth to have your bins emptied, you can find this system in the USA in most states, and this is what your Capitalist wants here in the UK, where you pay a private company for each of your services, Its what is known has a Capitalist Corporate System. southy
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Condor Man says...

Sotonian, they may lose more on paper but in reality a 5% cut for someone on £25k pa is going to hit harder than someone earning twice as much. I'm just looking at both sides of the argument.

As for bin collections, if people generated less waste and recycled properly we could easily have fortnightly collections. They work in more affluent areas.
Sotonian, they may lose more on paper but in reality a 5% cut for someone on £25k pa is going to hit harder than someone earning twice as much. I'm just looking at both sides of the argument. As for bin collections, if people generated less waste and recycled properly we could easily have fortnightly collections. They work in more affluent areas. Condor Man
  • Score: 0

12:33pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Nod says...

So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?
So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....? Nod
  • Score: 0

12:33pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

No, rotting waste should not be allowed to sit there for more than a week, its unhygienic, it attracts rats, and it smells.
I am happy that people recycle, but weekly bin collections are a must, and the people successfully made their views clear on that when the proposals for fortnightly collections were overturned.
If we go to fortnightly collections, I will be taking rubbish to the tip every other week.

It is less green to have lots of these individual car journeys, better to have an effective weekly service
No, rotting waste should not be allowed to sit there for more than a week, its unhygienic, it attracts rats, and it smells. I am happy that people recycle, but weekly bin collections are a must, and the people successfully made their views clear on that when the proposals for fortnightly collections were overturned. If we go to fortnightly collections, I will be taking rubbish to the tip every other week. It is less green to have lots of these individual car journeys, better to have an effective weekly service Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!
The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.
i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!!
It has every thing to do with Royston Smith, And has every thing to do about saving there jobs, 250 jobs are to go any way, next year if this Tory Council is still in control there will be 800 jobs gone and the year after that another 700 jobs are to go.
Don't be fooled in what Royston Smith is saying about saving 400 jobs thats only for this year and they will be gone next year. They want private company to take over the public services and it will cost you a hell alot more than it do now, but your Council Tax will not go down it will still go up.
And yes they will make it a seperate bill for rubbish once its been privatise, and you will end up paying at lest £22 per mth to have your bins emptied, you can find this system in the USA in most states, and this is what your Capitalist wants here in the UK, where you pay a private company for each of your services, Its what is known has a Capitalist Corporate System.
what on earth are you on about??? i havent heard anything royston smith has said so how am i listening to him?? im not a capitalist!! and if it means that all my services im supposed to have get done ill gladly pay £22 a month, so theyre going to sack 1,750 people then over the next 3 years? where is your proof? we are still the ones suffering, the strikers are just being selfish, thinking of themselves and not the public, they could have striked one day a week, say one week on a monday the next week on a tuesday etc etc so that we would have our bins emptied at least once a fortnight, the way theyve done it has drowned out any sympathy and nobody wants to hear what they have to say now we just want them back to work, if the unions stopped paying them theyd be back to work in the morning!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!![/p][/quote]The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service. It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks. So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth. Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services. How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.[/p][/quote]i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!![/p][/quote]It has every thing to do with Royston Smith, And has every thing to do about saving there jobs, 250 jobs are to go any way, next year if this Tory Council is still in control there will be 800 jobs gone and the year after that another 700 jobs are to go. Don't be fooled in what Royston Smith is saying about saving 400 jobs thats only for this year and they will be gone next year. They want private company to take over the public services and it will cost you a hell alot more than it do now, but your Council Tax will not go down it will still go up. And yes they will make it a seperate bill for rubbish once its been privatise, and you will end up paying at lest £22 per mth to have your bins emptied, you can find this system in the USA in most states, and this is what your Capitalist wants here in the UK, where you pay a private company for each of your services, Its what is known has a Capitalist Corporate System.[/p][/quote]what on earth are you on about??? i havent heard anything royston smith has said so how am i listening to him?? im not a capitalist!! and if it means that all my services im supposed to have get done ill gladly pay £22 a month, so theyre going to sack 1,750 people then over the next 3 years? where is your proof? we are still the ones suffering, the strikers are just being selfish, thinking of themselves and not the public, they could have striked one day a week, say one week on a monday the next week on a tuesday etc etc so that we would have our bins emptied at least once a fortnight, the way theyve done it has drowned out any sympathy and nobody wants to hear what they have to say now we just want them back to work, if the unions stopped paying them theyd be back to work in the morning!!!!! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

Right I've heard the Loony left blame Royston for tis dispute but please tell me how can you negotiate if one side refused to negotiate from the beginning? no matter how many times it's pointed out to these lefties they still bang on about Royston. Look as I've pointed out look at Labours proposals if they get power.The unions have taken on a council not of their political choosing to only find out that the proposals put forward by the present council were the best offers on the table so why not show that they have their members at heart & settle with the council before or if Labour gets in & decimates the workforce.Southy your spouting rubbish again the council were going to make 250 ( now 285) redundant & over the next four years another 400 this would have been achieved by early retirement(get redundancy as well) or people finding new jobs for them selfs so keeping down the enforced figure your beloved socialists have no intention of such a low figure have they? maine lobster I've continuously stuck up for the bin men I'm just Anti Unions who are using the workers for political aims
Right I've heard the Loony left blame Royston for tis dispute but please tell me how can you negotiate if one side refused to negotiate from the beginning? no matter how many times it's pointed out to these lefties they still bang on about Royston. Look as I've pointed out look at Labours proposals if they get power.The unions have taken on a council not of their political choosing to only find out that the proposals put forward by the present council were the best offers on the table so why not show that they have their members at heart & settle with the council before or if Labour gets in & decimates the workforce.Southy your spouting rubbish again the council were going to make 250 ( now 285) redundant & over the next four years another 400 this would have been achieved by early retirement(get redundancy as well) or people finding new jobs for them selfs so keeping down the enforced figure your beloved socialists have no intention of such a low figure have they? maine lobster I've continuously stuck up for the bin men I'm just Anti Unions who are using the workers for political aims loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:44pm Mon 18 Jul 11

TEBOURBA says...

The dropping of litter is an offence punishable by a fine, this has been the case for many years.
In all this time how many litterbugs have been taken to court and fined in Southampton?
I would think that you could count the number on one hand and have fingers left over!
If the police are not prepared to invoke the law, then there is no deterrent and the 1,000's of litterbugs we have in the City will continue to pollute our streets with their rubbish!
The effects of the strike of street cleaners and refuse collectors just shows what a vitally important job they do for the community.
The wage they are on is barely a living wage, leaving very little, if any money over, for the little luxuries of life.
With food inflation runnning at over 6%, petrol at 15% and increases in gas and electricity set to hit 20% or more , why should these valuable public servants suffer a 5.5% reduction in wages!!!
What makes life a little more enjoyable is the money left over after you've paid for the essentials, i.e.--- shelter, food, heat,light, clothing etc.
I would suggest that these valuable public servants already have little left over and inflation and a pay cut will leave many of them owing at the end of the week.
Stick at it boys and girls you have my total support. the "sack'em!" brigade have no idea what they are talking about and certainly don't know what it is to go without and count the pennies at the end of the week!!!
The dropping of litter is an offence punishable by a fine, this has been the case for many years. In all this time how many litterbugs have been taken to court and fined in Southampton? I would think that you could count the number on one hand and have fingers left over! If the police are not prepared to invoke the law, then there is no deterrent and the 1,000's of litterbugs we have in the City will continue to pollute our streets with their rubbish! The effects of the strike of street cleaners and refuse collectors just shows what a vitally important job they do for the community. The wage they are on is barely a living wage, leaving very little, if any money over, for the little luxuries of life. With food inflation runnning at over 6%, petrol at 15% and increases in gas and electricity set to hit 20% or more , why should these valuable public servants suffer a 5.5% reduction in wages!!! What makes life a little more enjoyable is the money left over after you've paid for the essentials, i.e.--- shelter, food, heat,light, clothing etc. I would suggest that these valuable public servants already have little left over and inflation and a pay cut will leave many of them owing at the end of the week. Stick at it boys and girls you have my total support. the "sack'em!" brigade have no idea what they are talking about and certainly don't know what it is to go without and count the pennies at the end of the week!!! TEBOURBA
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Poppy22 says...

Having seen the waste opertives' jobs advertised, I think their salaries are very good, especially when compared with the private sector jobs of, eg, people in admin/secretarial roles and people who have studied for years but then end up in the new "factories" (call centres) being paid little over minimum wage.
The striking binmen deserve the cold shoulder treatment from the public in Southampton - after all it's the public who have suffered by the binmen's striking, not the Council. I hope no-one gives them a Christmas tip this year (well, not a monetary one, anyway!).
Having seen the waste opertives' jobs advertised, I think their salaries are very good, especially when compared with the private sector jobs of, eg, people in admin/secretarial roles and people who have studied for years but then end up in the new "factories" (call centres) being paid little over minimum wage. The striking binmen deserve the cold shoulder treatment from the public in Southampton - after all it's the public who have suffered by the binmen's striking, not the Council. I hope no-one gives them a Christmas tip this year (well, not a monetary one, anyway!). Poppy22
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Mon 18 Jul 11

davesbabe says...

TEBOURBA wrote:
The dropping of litter is an offence punishable by a fine, this has been the case for many years.
In all this time how many litterbugs have been taken to court and fined in Southampton?
I would think that you could count the number on one hand and have fingers left over!
If the police are not prepared to invoke the law, then there is no deterrent and the 1,000's of litterbugs we have in the City will continue to pollute our streets with their rubbish!
The effects of the strike of street cleaners and refuse collectors just shows what a vitally important job they do for the community.
The wage they are on is barely a living wage, leaving very little, if any money over, for the little luxuries of life.
With food inflation runnning at over 6%, petrol at 15% and increases in gas and electricity set to hit 20% or more , why should these valuable public servants suffer a 5.5% reduction in wages!!!
What makes life a little more enjoyable is the money left over after you've paid for the essentials, i.e.--- shelter, food, heat,light, clothing etc.
I would suggest that these valuable public servants already have little left over and inflation and a pay cut will leave many of them owing at the end of the week.
Stick at it boys and girls you have my total support. the "sack'em!" brigade have no idea what they are talking about and certainly don't know what it is to go without and count the pennies at the end of the week!!!
my husband works for the council in the new forest and as the lower cut off point at the beginning was £19,500 i can tell you that is over £4000 more than what my husband earns, we have 4 children and have to save to have those little luxuries, at £19,500 a year i shouldnt think they have to save much do you?, yes i know exactly what its like to go without i do frequently and i for one would love for my hubby to earn the sort of wages that theyre earning, just for the record my hubby is on a pay freeze for the next few years too so i would imagine we will have to save a lot harder but i want to make my childrens lives more enjoyable more than i do my husbands and my own, to see them happy after slaving at work all day, outside, year round is enough motivation for him to do his job and not moan about it! for the measly wages he does earn, he has a job, others are not so lucky, we are thankful he has one, they should be too!! life is a struggle get on with it i say!
[quote][p][bold]TEBOURBA[/bold] wrote: The dropping of litter is an offence punishable by a fine, this has been the case for many years. In all this time how many litterbugs have been taken to court and fined in Southampton? I would think that you could count the number on one hand and have fingers left over! If the police are not prepared to invoke the law, then there is no deterrent and the 1,000's of litterbugs we have in the City will continue to pollute our streets with their rubbish! The effects of the strike of street cleaners and refuse collectors just shows what a vitally important job they do for the community. The wage they are on is barely a living wage, leaving very little, if any money over, for the little luxuries of life. With food inflation runnning at over 6%, petrol at 15% and increases in gas and electricity set to hit 20% or more , why should these valuable public servants suffer a 5.5% reduction in wages!!! What makes life a little more enjoyable is the money left over after you've paid for the essentials, i.e.--- shelter, food, heat,light, clothing etc. I would suggest that these valuable public servants already have little left over and inflation and a pay cut will leave many of them owing at the end of the week. Stick at it boys and girls you have my total support. the "sack'em!" brigade have no idea what they are talking about and certainly don't know what it is to go without and count the pennies at the end of the week!!![/p][/quote]my husband works for the council in the new forest and as the lower cut off point at the beginning was £19,500 i can tell you that is over £4000 more than what my husband earns, we have 4 children and have to save to have those little luxuries, at £19,500 a year i shouldnt think they have to save much do you?, yes i know exactly what its like to go without i do frequently and i for one would love for my hubby to earn the sort of wages that theyre earning, just for the record my hubby is on a pay freeze for the next few years too so i would imagine we will have to save a lot harder but i want to make my childrens lives more enjoyable more than i do my husbands and my own, to see them happy after slaving at work all day, outside, year round is enough motivation for him to do his job and not moan about it! for the measly wages he does earn, he has a job, others are not so lucky, we are thankful he has one, they should be too!! life is a struggle get on with it i say! davesbabe
  • Score: 0

1:20pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that! dango
  • Score: 0

1:24pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Hopeful Saints fan says...

Southy,

A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this?

Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.
Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides. Hopeful Saints fan
  • Score: 0

1:26pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Hopeful Saints fan says...

Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.
Sorry should have fininshed with people who are unimpressed with both sides think.

s/w used-push - like this long running story has been used by people from both sides to push their agenda
[quote][p][bold]Hopeful Saints fan[/bold] wrote: Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.[/p][/quote]Sorry should have fininshed with people who are unimpressed with both sides think. s/w used-push - like this long running story has been used by people from both sides to push their agenda Hopeful Saints fan
  • Score: 0

1:27pm Mon 18 Jul 11

wasthatthatguy says...

I thought Maggie Thatcher had got rid of the unions.....Although, come to think of it, that was all of the unions apart from the ones she needed to run the Government, of the local and national varieties.
I thought Maggie Thatcher had got rid of the unions.....Although, come to think of it, that was all of the unions apart from the ones she needed to run the Government, of the local and national varieties. wasthatthatguy
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Northam Lady says...

Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th
is seems to be before any talks have taken place??
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th is seems to be before any talks have taken place?? Northam Lady
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

The strike it political. May I suggest some of you who think the strikers are "the good guys" study the history of political strikes. See how many have been successful. Anyone who thinks 14 day refuse collection does not work is living on a different planet. OF COURSE IT WORKS, as has been proved in 40% of the entire country. The Unions will now be desperately wanting a solution ( secretly ). Royston knows this. So this political strike will fail. And the main reason is simple. SCC employees are overpaid for what they do compared with others in similar jobs in the private sector and other public sector employers. So in the end the forces of balance will win, as they always do. The Unions have misjudged sentiments on this. If these guys were earning the same as most others in similar jobs then there would have been solid support from the start. But the Unions are slowly painting themselves into a corner. I expect the "negotiations" to go know where and there will be more strikes. Once residents get used to a lower service level, SCC will have an easier time riding out the strike.
The strike it political. May I suggest some of you who think the strikers are "the good guys" study the history of political strikes. See how many have been successful. Anyone who thinks 14 day refuse collection does not work is living on a different planet. OF COURSE IT WORKS, as has been proved in 40% of the entire country. The Unions will now be desperately wanting a solution ( secretly ). Royston knows this. So this political strike will fail. And the main reason is simple. SCC employees are overpaid for what they do compared with others in similar jobs in the private sector and other public sector employers. So in the end the forces of balance will win, as they always do. The Unions have misjudged sentiments on this. If these guys were earning the same as most others in similar jobs then there would have been solid support from the start. But the Unions are slowly painting themselves into a corner. I expect the "negotiations" to go know where and there will be more strikes. Once residents get used to a lower service level, SCC will have an easier time riding out the strike. MGRA
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th

is seems to be before any talks have taken place??
SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.
[quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th is seems to be before any talks have taken place??[/p][/quote]SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste. MGRA
  • Score: 0

1:53pm Mon 18 Jul 11

My View From Here says...

MGRA wrote:
Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th


is seems to be before any talks have taken place??
SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.
Maybe the strikers should adopt the French style of striking?

When the French blockade the port, at least they do it properly.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th is seems to be before any talks have taken place??[/p][/quote]SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.[/p][/quote]Maybe the strikers should adopt the French style of striking? When the French blockade the port, at least they do it properly. My View From Here
  • Score: 0

2:23pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

My View From Here wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th



is seems to be before any talks have taken place??
SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.
Maybe the strikers should adopt the French style of striking?

When the French blockade the port, at least they do it properly.
The french style of striking is a farce. Its pretty much all staged and agreed behind close doors. Its all a pantomime. thats why you don't get many french strikes that last long, the union members aren't as stupid as one in the UK, they want gaurantees before they strike. The strikes themselves are just cynical displays. Its no secret in France.
[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th is seems to be before any talks have taken place??[/p][/quote]SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.[/p][/quote]Maybe the strikers should adopt the French style of striking? When the French blockade the port, at least they do it properly.[/p][/quote]The french style of striking is a farce. Its pretty much all staged and agreed behind close doors. Its all a pantomime. thats why you don't get many french strikes that last long, the union members aren't as stupid as one in the UK, they want gaurantees before they strike. The strikes themselves are just cynical displays. Its no secret in France. MGRA
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

Nod wrote:
So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?
Both Torys and Labour are saying the same amount of cuts amd job loses are needed, just that the torys will do it quicker than the Labour Party, The TUSC are saying no to any cuts that results in job loses or reduction in pay for the front line workers.
[quote][p][bold]Nod[/bold] wrote: So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?[/p][/quote]Both Torys and Labour are saying the same amount of cuts amd job loses are needed, just that the torys will do it quicker than the Labour Party, The TUSC are saying no to any cuts that results in job loses or reduction in pay for the front line workers. southy
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
[quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost. southy
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

southy wrote:
Nod wrote:
So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?
Both Torys and Labour are saying the same amount of cuts amd job loses are needed, just that the torys will do it quicker than the Labour Party, The TUSC are saying no to any cuts that results in job loses or reduction in pay for the front line workers.
Not true Southy!

The Conservatives want to be restrained with job cuts, and use pay cuts and natural turnover of staff to try to reduce the number of potential future redundancies

Labour are not consistent, elsewhere in the country they are working with unions to implement pay cuts, but in Southampton oddly prefer to plan many more redundancies than the conservatives would wish to see happen.

The TUSC havent a hope in trying to prevent the inevitable cuts that all three major parties are committed to. They destroy their credibility with such a ridiculous position.

Support the workers? support the local services? Support the minimum job cuts? If so, its Royston and the conservatives who deserve your support.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nod[/bold] wrote: So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?[/p][/quote]Both Torys and Labour are saying the same amount of cuts amd job loses are needed, just that the torys will do it quicker than the Labour Party, The TUSC are saying no to any cuts that results in job loses or reduction in pay for the front line workers.[/p][/quote]Not true Southy! The Conservatives want to be restrained with job cuts, and use pay cuts and natural turnover of staff to try to reduce the number of potential future redundancies Labour are not consistent, elsewhere in the country they are working with unions to implement pay cuts, but in Southampton oddly prefer to plan many more redundancies than the conservatives would wish to see happen. The TUSC havent a hope in trying to prevent the inevitable cuts that all three major parties are committed to. They destroy their credibility with such a ridiculous position. Support the workers? support the local services? Support the minimum job cuts? If so, its Royston and the conservatives who deserve your support. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Roger Khan says...

mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"
I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.
[quote][p][bold]mummsie[/bold] wrote: Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"[/p][/quote]I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort. Roger Khan
  • Score: 0

2:39pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.[/p][/quote]Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers. Southy, why do make things up as you go along? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

2:42pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Dusty says...

Wupperty wrote:
Yeah I could do it thanks. But I pay my council yax to make sure I don't have to. And to clarify, my post referred to those who pick things up and put things down, not those who drive the truck (and I agree that anyone who has to pay for the licence or other costs should have this reflected in their wage)- although if you are trying to convinve me that of what you mentioned requires much thought then I'm amazed you have the ability to fire up your laptop.
It requires more thought than what went in to your post.

The only thing you can drive is people round the bend i don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. If i said i was pilot, you would say you could do that as well.
[quote][p][bold]Wupperty[/bold] wrote: Yeah I could do it thanks. But I pay my council yax to make sure I don't have to. And to clarify, my post referred to those who pick things up and put things down, not those who drive the truck (and I agree that anyone who has to pay for the licence or other costs should have this reflected in their wage)- although if you are trying to convinve me that of what you mentioned requires much thought then I'm amazed you have the ability to fire up your laptop.[/p][/quote]It requires more thought than what went in to your post. The only thing you can drive is people round the bend i don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. If i said i was pilot, you would say you could do that as well. Dusty
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy,

A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this?

Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.
At the moment the majority of people are backing the strikers, strike over public services are not just contained to Southampton any more it has gone national.

The right thing to do for any council is to say no to government, but to tell the government to look at where the country is losing the most of the money and it what direction and close the loop hole IE like the £120 Billion thats being lost in Tax Revenue that not being paid by the Super Rich each year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion.
If cuts and saving must be made then the right way is to start at the very top and slowly work down wards, The top effects less people and do less harm to the Economy.
The Council should be asking for more of there money back, if not then the Council should stop letting the Government having the Council Tax and Rent and House sells money first, and let the Government have the left overs after the Council finished using what is needed.
[quote][p][bold]Hopeful Saints fan[/bold] wrote: Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.[/p][/quote]At the moment the majority of people are backing the strikers, strike over public services are not just contained to Southampton any more it has gone national. The right thing to do for any council is to say no to government, but to tell the government to look at where the country is losing the most of the money and it what direction and close the loop hole IE like the £120 Billion thats being lost in Tax Revenue that not being paid by the Super Rich each year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion. If cuts and saving must be made then the right way is to start at the very top and slowly work down wards, The top effects less people and do less harm to the Economy. The Council should be asking for more of there money back, if not then the Council should stop letting the Government having the Council Tax and Rent and House sells money first, and let the Government have the left overs after the Council finished using what is needed. southy
  • Score: 0

2:48pm Mon 18 Jul 11

acid drop says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.
British citizens being tidy and not dropping litter DREAM ON I live close to a corner shop and when the wind is blowing my way my garden is full of sweet/cigarette packets plastic bottles and newspapers
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.[/p][/quote]British citizens being tidy and not dropping litter DREAM ON I live close to a corner shop and when the wind is blowing my way my garden is full of sweet/cigarette packets plastic bottles and newspapers acid drop
  • Score: 0

2:49pm Mon 18 Jul 11

shouty says...

Does anyone else aft to check the name on posts? I keep thinking I've gone un posted another parody!
Does anyone else aft to check the name on posts? I keep thinking I've gone un posted another parody! shouty
  • Score: 0

3:14pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Service-defender says...

I think £20k is a pretty sweet deal, That's just under two grand a month which is double what i'm getting. I work full time in a retail store where we get bullied, abused and disrespected by customers on a regular basis and we get half of what these bin men are getting.

Now i do sympathize and i'd be upset too if i was in the same situation but how much longer can this go on for?

You still got a sweet pay deal for a 5 day a week job with weekends off and every bank holiday off,

For half of what your getting paid i get taxed, and only Christmas day off if i'm lucky with no additional payments for working on bank holidays.

Just think yourselves lucky.
I think £20k is a pretty sweet deal, That's just under two grand a month which is double what i'm getting. I work full time in a retail store where we get bullied, abused and disrespected by customers on a regular basis and we get half of what these bin men are getting. Now i do sympathize and i'd be upset too if i was in the same situation but how much longer can this go on for? You still got a sweet pay deal for a 5 day a week job with weekends off and every bank holiday off, For half of what your getting paid i get taxed, and only Christmas day off if i'm lucky with no additional payments for working on bank holidays. Just think yourselves lucky. Service-defender
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Mon 18 Jul 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

davesbabe wrote:
pod wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!
If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.[/p][/quote]i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!![/p][/quote]If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in? I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy.... Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem! It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!! freemantlegirl2
  • Score: 0

3:38pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Condor Man says...

FM2, you're right WE create the waste and it's been interesting to see how people have reacted to the problem. Thankfully I have a car and today I'll be taking my rubbish to the tip after work. If, like me, you have a car and are capable of shifting your rubbish you should for a number of reasons. Firstly it's unhygenic not to. Secondly if you have any pride in where you live and respect for your neighbours you won't want to live in tip. There are a lot of people who are not being reasonable. I accept some can't but a lot can
FM2, you're right WE create the waste and it's been interesting to see how people have reacted to the problem. Thankfully I have a car and today I'll be taking my rubbish to the tip after work. If, like me, you have a car and are capable of shifting your rubbish you should for a number of reasons. Firstly it's unhygenic not to. Secondly if you have any pride in where you live and respect for your neighbours you won't want to live in tip. There are a lot of people who are not being reasonable. I accept some can't but a lot can Condor Man
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Mon 18 Jul 11

captain_chaos says...

You lot make me laugh! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Half of you want to rip the previous posters head off and the other half are offering it on a plate! Haven't you got anything better to do? Mamsy pamsy idiots! It will be resolved when it gets resolved. Live with it, I am. Oh and, next year vote for someone with a bit of gumption!
You lot make me laugh! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Half of you want to rip the previous posters head off and the other half are offering it on a plate! Haven't you got anything better to do? Mamsy pamsy idiots! It will be resolved when it gets resolved. Live with it, I am. Oh and, next year vote for someone with a bit of gumption! captain_chaos
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Service-defender says...

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
pod wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!
If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!
Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong.

We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation.

Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different.

Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now.

Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.
[quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.[/p][/quote]i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!![/p][/quote]If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in? I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy.... Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem! It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!![/p][/quote]Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong. We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation. Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different. Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now. Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it. Service-defender
  • Score: 0

3:45pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

3:48pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

captain_chaos wrote:
You lot make me laugh! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Half of you want to rip the previous posters head off and the other half are offering it on a plate! Haven't you got anything better to do? Mamsy pamsy idiots! It will be resolved when it gets resolved. Live with it, I am. Oh and, next year vote for someone with a bit of gumption!
Oh you mean like the conservatives who've stood up to the unions In an attempt to save as many jobs as possible?
[quote][p][bold]captain_chaos[/bold] wrote: You lot make me laugh! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Half of you want to rip the previous posters head off and the other half are offering it on a plate! Haven't you got anything better to do? Mamsy pamsy idiots! It will be resolved when it gets resolved. Live with it, I am. Oh and, next year vote for someone with a bit of gumption![/p][/quote]Oh you mean like the conservatives who've stood up to the unions In an attempt to save as many jobs as possible? loosehead
  • Score: 0

3:53pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

So sotonians you don't want to pay a decent wage for the work carried out ,and now you don't want to pay out a decent redundancy package to trim the workforce....it's nice to feel valued! what a joke your comments are ! people have put in the years for this city pay up or shut up!
So sotonians you don't want to pay a decent wage for the work carried out ,and now you don't want to pay out a decent redundancy package to trim the workforce....it's nice to feel valued! what a joke your comments are ! people have put in the years for this city pay up or shut up! go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
Nice trap, I fell for it, sorry to hear about your disability, nothing wrong with your brain though, is there?
[quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]Nice trap, I fell for it, sorry to hear about your disability, nothing wrong with your brain though, is there? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

3:56pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

Southy/shouty here's a idea why don't you do the normal socialist thing & round up as many workers ( working class) as you can & force them to sweep the streets & empty the bins or get no food? just look at socialist revolutions China/Cambodia in the beginning of these states how many died for that ideology? Stop banging on about it we live in a free society & people have freedoms if they want to the worlds their oyster.But this disputes about two Unions trying to p[rove how powerful they are at the expense of their members jobs you & they can't tell me that a low (joke) wage of £19,000 -£22,500 isn't a good wage & better than most people can earn today with the chance of a lot of overtime
Southy/shouty here's a idea why don't you do the normal socialist thing & round up as many workers ( working class) as you can & force them to sweep the streets & empty the bins or get no food? just look at socialist revolutions China/Cambodia in the beginning of these states how many died for that ideology? Stop banging on about it we live in a free society & people have freedoms if they want to the worlds their oyster.But this disputes about two Unions trying to p[rove how powerful they are at the expense of their members jobs you & they can't tell me that a low (joke) wage of £19,000 -£22,500 isn't a good wage & better than most people can earn today with the chance of a lot of overtime loosehead
  • Score: 0

4:00pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

davesbabe suprised at your attitude towards us binmen ,because your one bin is missed the whole workforce are lazy quite incredible really, oh well suppose you've got to whinge about something.
davesbabe suprised at your attitude towards us binmen ,because your one bin is missed the whole workforce are lazy quite incredible really, oh well suppose you've got to whinge about something. go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a. go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

acid drop wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.
British citizens being tidy and not dropping litter DREAM ON I live close to a corner shop and when the wind is blowing my way my garden is full of sweet/cigarette packets plastic bottles and newspapers
Just pick 'em up put 'em in a bin. Simples.
[quote][p][bold]acid drop[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.[/p][/quote]British citizens being tidy and not dropping litter DREAM ON I live close to a corner shop and when the wind is blowing my way my garden is full of sweet/cigarette packets plastic bottles and newspapers[/p][/quote]Just pick 'em up put 'em in a bin. Simples. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Torchie1 says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Why don't you take a few moments to explain the details of your job?
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Why don't you take a few moments to explain the details of your job? Torchie1
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............
. UNIONS!
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Condor Man wrote:
I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.
Condor man, your religious convictions, are you the guy that chucked Domestos at the vicar, and got done for a bleach of the priest?
[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.[/p][/quote]Condor man, your religious convictions, are you the guy that chucked Domestos at the vicar, and got done for a bleach of the priest? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:19pm Mon 18 Jul 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

Service-defender wrote:
freemantlegirl2 wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
pod wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!
If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!
Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong.

We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation.

Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different.

Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now.

Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.
We've been to the dump today and no traffic queue..... we've only had to wait once....

I know what you mean, we all need to take responsibility but calling people names and 'assuming' that they're lazy is just wrong and unproductive....

I think Go Punk's idea of job swaps is an excellent suggestion. I wonder quite how many people would do such a dirty, physically demanding job, with the public who are extremely ungrateful on the whole, in all weathers, pouring with rain, boiling sun (not that we've seen much of that), freezing cold and ice (we saw a lot of that!)..... if they were REALLY honest.... everyone should be paid a decent wage in order to meet the demands of modern life, there should be no 'underclass' of citizens who are deemed to be of 'less value' than the rest of us. The fact that the bin men have been missed by so many and so acutely surely demonstrates their worth! I feel ashamed of some comments here of people calling them lazy f***ers and the like. Perhaps they ought to be first in teh queue to walk in their shoes!
[quote][p][bold]Service-defender[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.[/p][/quote]i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!![/p][/quote]If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in? I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy.... Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem! It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!![/p][/quote]Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong. We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation. Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different. Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now. Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.[/p][/quote]We've been to the dump today and no traffic queue..... we've only had to wait once.... I know what you mean, we all need to take responsibility but calling people names and 'assuming' that they're lazy is just wrong and unproductive.... I think Go Punk's idea of job swaps is an excellent suggestion. I wonder quite how many people would do such a dirty, physically demanding job, with the public who are extremely ungrateful on the whole, in all weathers, pouring with rain, boiling sun (not that we've seen much of that), freezing cold and ice (we saw a lot of that!)..... if they were REALLY honest.... everyone should be paid a decent wage in order to meet the demands of modern life, there should be no 'underclass' of citizens who are deemed to be of 'less value' than the rest of us. The fact that the bin men have been missed by so many and so acutely surely demonstrates their worth! I feel ashamed of some comments here of people calling them lazy f***ers and the like. Perhaps they ought to be first in teh queue to walk in their shoes! freemantlegirl2
  • Score: 0

4:21pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Lone Ranger. says...

loosehead wrote:
Southy/shouty here's a idea why don't you do the normal socialist thing & round up as many workers ( working class) as you can & force them to sweep the streets & empty the bins or get no food? just look at socialist revolutions China/Cambodia in the beginning of these states how many died for that ideology? Stop banging on about it we live in a free society & people have freedoms if they want to the worlds their oyster.But this disputes about two Unions trying to p
Why dont you just define what "working class" is please ...... and whether you fall into it
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Southy/shouty here's a idea why don't you do the normal socialist thing & round up as many workers ( working class) as you can & force them to sweep the streets & empty the bins or get no food? just look at socialist revolutions China/Cambodia in the beginning of these states how many died for that ideology? Stop banging on about it we live in a free society & people have freedoms if they want to the worlds their oyster.But this disputes about two Unions trying to p[rove how powerful they are at the expense of their members jobs you & they can't tell me that a low (joke) wage of £19,000 -£22,500 isn't a good wage & better than most people can earn today with the chance of a lot of overtime[/p][/quote]Why dont you just define what "working class" is please ...... and whether you fall into it Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

4:23pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Roger Khan wrote:
mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"
I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.
More Khant than Khan then?
[quote][p][bold]Roger Khan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mummsie[/bold] wrote: Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"[/p][/quote]I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.[/p][/quote]More Khant than Khan then? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:24pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
So sotonians you don't want to pay a decent wage for the work carried out ,and now you don't want to pay out a decent redundancy package to trim the workforce....it's nice to feel valued! what a joke your comments are ! people have put in the years for this city pay up or shut up!
That's the problem.... the unions and strikers have a me me me attitude.

The council workers have already been paid for the years they have worked, and they have been paid more than they should have been due to union pressure, more than we could afford, and we have ended up with a big national debt.

Now the time has come to take action to try to control the deficit, pay is being cut a little, and then frozen.

But, its not being trimmed that much, and the only cuts are to future pay and conditions, for time which hasnt yet been worked.

Anything due to workers from past years of service has been paid for, pension rights accrued remain there, benefits earned up to the changes will still be paid from the original dates.

The reform is about future term and conditions for future work yet to be done...

So.

If you dont like the new terms and conditions go get a new job. You have been given appropriate notice, and it is your choice whether you wish to continue to work for the council on the future terms or not. We will respect your decision if you wish to find work elsewhere.

But dont come complaining about what how you have put in the years and how you want to be paid yet again for what you have already been overpaid, via concessions or redundancy packages! That, dear binman, is not going to happen.

You shouldnt get redundancy, because your jobs are still there. Its just we will only pay in future what we can afford, closer to the lower pay levels of the private sector.

It's still more than you would get if the jobs are all outsourced (particularly if TUPE is scrapped which is on Osborne's agenda), so better to be cooperative, than force the council's hand to take any further dramatic steps.
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: So sotonians you don't want to pay a decent wage for the work carried out ,and now you don't want to pay out a decent redundancy package to trim the workforce....it's nice to feel valued! what a joke your comments are ! people have put in the years for this city pay up or shut up![/p][/quote]That's the problem.... the unions and strikers have a me me me attitude. The council workers have already been paid for the years they have worked, and they have been paid more than they should have been due to union pressure, more than we could afford, and we have ended up with a big national debt. Now the time has come to take action to try to control the deficit, pay is being cut a little, and then frozen. But, its not being trimmed that much, and the only cuts are to future pay and conditions, for time which hasnt yet been worked. Anything due to workers from past years of service has been paid for, pension rights accrued remain there, benefits earned up to the changes will still be paid from the original dates. The reform is about future term and conditions for future work yet to be done... So. If you dont like the new terms and conditions go get a new job. You have been given appropriate notice, and it is your choice whether you wish to continue to work for the council on the future terms or not. We will respect your decision if you wish to find work elsewhere. But dont come complaining about what how you have put in the years and how you want to be paid yet again for what you have already been overpaid, via concessions or redundancy packages! That, dear binman, is not going to happen. You shouldnt get redundancy, because your jobs are still there. Its just we will only pay in future what we can afford, closer to the lower pay levels of the private sector. It's still more than you would get if the jobs are all outsourced (particularly if TUPE is scrapped which is on Osborne's agenda), so better to be cooperative, than force the council's hand to take any further dramatic steps. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys![/p][/quote]Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:27pm Mon 18 Jul 11

lewis99 says...

25k a year for getting up at 4-30, getting home at 12, no lifting involved, walk a very short distance with wheelie bin, press button on lorry, week-ends off, good pension ... i'll have some of that!!!
Be gratefull that you have a job and, as has been pointed out on here, 5% cut in 25k a year is better than no job at all.
The public have turned against you ... now if you can get back to work it would help ... MUPPETS!!!
25k a year for getting up at 4-30, getting home at 12, no lifting involved, walk a very short distance with wheelie bin, press button on lorry, week-ends off, good pension ... i'll have some of that!!! Be gratefull that you have a job and, as has been pointed out on here, 5% cut in 25k a year is better than no job at all. The public have turned against you ... now if you can get back to work it would help ... MUPPETS!!! lewis99
  • Score: 0

4:28pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Service-defender wrote:
freemantlegirl2 wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
pod wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Why not clean up your own mess?
i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!
I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.
my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!
And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.
i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!
If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!
Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong.

We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation.

Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different.

Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now.

Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.
We've been to the dump today and no traffic queue..... we've only had to wait once....

I know what you mean, we all need to take responsibility but calling people names and 'assuming' that they're lazy is just wrong and unproductive....

I think Go Punk's idea of job swaps is an excellent suggestion. I wonder quite how many people would do such a dirty, physically demanding job, with the public who are extremely ungrateful on the whole, in all weathers, pouring with rain, boiling sun (not that we've seen much of that), freezing cold and ice (we saw a lot of that!)..... if they were REALLY honest.... everyone should be paid a decent wage in order to meet the demands of modern life, there should be no 'underclass' of citizens who are deemed to be of 'less value' than the rest of us. The fact that the bin men have been missed by so many and so acutely surely demonstrates their worth! I feel ashamed of some comments here of people calling them lazy f***ers and the like. Perhaps they ought to be first in teh queue to walk in their shoes!
Why stop at temporary job swaps? If the bin men are so convinced no one would do their jobs for the new pay and conditions, then let them offer their jobs to the unemployed, and for every new recruit that accepts on the new terms, sack a striker (once it is legal to do so of course)
[quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Service-defender[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Why not clean up your own mess?[/p][/quote]i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!![/p][/quote]I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.[/p][/quote]my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!![/p][/quote]And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess. Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.[/p][/quote]i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!![/p][/quote]If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in? I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy.... Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem! It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!![/p][/quote]Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong. We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation. Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different. Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now. Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.[/p][/quote]We've been to the dump today and no traffic queue..... we've only had to wait once.... I know what you mean, we all need to take responsibility but calling people names and 'assuming' that they're lazy is just wrong and unproductive.... I think Go Punk's idea of job swaps is an excellent suggestion. I wonder quite how many people would do such a dirty, physically demanding job, with the public who are extremely ungrateful on the whole, in all weathers, pouring with rain, boiling sun (not that we've seen much of that), freezing cold and ice (we saw a lot of that!)..... if they were REALLY honest.... everyone should be paid a decent wage in order to meet the demands of modern life, there should be no 'underclass' of citizens who are deemed to be of 'less value' than the rest of us. The fact that the bin men have been missed by so many and so acutely surely demonstrates their worth! I feel ashamed of some comments here of people calling them lazy f***ers and the like. Perhaps they ought to be first in teh queue to walk in their shoes![/p][/quote]Why stop at temporary job swaps? If the bin men are so convinced no one would do their jobs for the new pay and conditions, then let them offer their jobs to the unemployed, and for every new recruit that accepts on the new terms, sack a striker (once it is legal to do so of course) Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Mon 18 Jul 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Roger Khan wrote:
mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"
I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.
More Khant than Khan then?
oh dear, me and my rude mind read that in a 'different' way the first time ! lol... ooops!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Roger Khan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mummsie[/bold] wrote: Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"[/p][/quote]I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.[/p][/quote]More Khant than Khan then?[/p][/quote]oh dear, me and my rude mind read that in a 'different' way the first time ! lol... ooops! freemantlegirl2
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

Freemantlegirl2 thanks for your support!
Freemantlegirl2 thanks for your support! go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

4:33pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!
That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys![/p][/quote]Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha![/p][/quote]That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-) I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

4:39pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!
That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!
Ho! Ho! Ho! e i e i e i o into the wheelie you must.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys![/p][/quote]Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha![/p][/quote]That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-) I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking![/p][/quote]Ho! Ho! Ho! e i e i e i o into the wheelie you must. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:41pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!
That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!
Ho! Ho! Ho! e i e i e i o into the wheelie you must.
Go!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys![/p][/quote]Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha![/p][/quote]That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-) I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking![/p][/quote]Ho! Ho! Ho! e i e i e i o into the wheelie you must.[/p][/quote]Go! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:47pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

Yes sotonions co-operative had a chuckle at that one 'swings and roundabouts there me thinks' a small cut in wages it may be to you but they are my wages i have worked towards for many years jumping through hoops on this course and that remember that sotonions mine, your attitude towards your staff is alarming and rather arrogant.If the money isn't there as you say go back to fortnightly collections cut your fleet back and reduce your staff in line with this you won't get the cheap option you are after we're not that stupid!
Yes sotonions co-operative had a chuckle at that one 'swings and roundabouts there me thinks' a small cut in wages it may be to you but they are my wages i have worked towards for many years jumping through hoops on this course and that remember that sotonions mine, your attitude towards your staff is alarming and rather arrogant.If the money isn't there as you say go back to fortnightly collections cut your fleet back and reduce your staff in line with this you won't get the cheap option you are after we're not that stupid! go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

4:53pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!
[quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

4:54pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip!
Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip! go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

4:57pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip!
I have to admit, 25k for a Bin Man is over exaggerated. If that was the case, every Citizen in Southampton would be up in arms!
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip![/p][/quote]I have to admit, 25k for a Bin Man is over exaggerated. If that was the case, every Citizen in Southampton would be up in arms! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

5:00pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

shouty wrote:
Does anyone else aft to check the name on posts? I keep thinking I've gone un posted another parody!
Did you know shouty is an anagram of youths? Like the ones that dumped half a dozen or more empty Fosters Lager cans and their accompanying packaging, three feet from a litter bin in Daisy Dip, which do I prefer, Yuppy litter louts or striking binmen, you guess.
[quote][p][bold]shouty[/bold] wrote: Does anyone else aft to check the name on posts? I keep thinking I've gone un posted another parody![/p][/quote]Did you know shouty is an anagram of youths? Like the ones that dumped half a dozen or more empty Fosters Lager cans and their accompanying packaging, three feet from a litter bin in Daisy Dip, which do I prefer, Yuppy litter louts or striking binmen, you guess. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

5:02pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Lone Ranger. says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip!
Over the last 8 weeks jokers like this have been plucking numbers out of the air,
.
When they are challenged to produce the facts then we are all left wing loonies.
.
You stick with the real facts- "go ahead punk make my day" - still the public are on the side of the public sector strikers.
.
Leave the Bull Sh** to Roystons spin doctor, the cut and paste man and the other Lemmings that follow the Cllrs propaganda.
.
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip![/p][/quote]Over the last 8 weeks jokers like this have been plucking numbers out of the air, . When they are challenged to produce the facts then we are all left wing loonies. . You stick with the real facts- "go ahead punk make my day" - still the public are on the side of the public sector strikers. . Leave the Bull Sh** to Roystons spin doctor, the cut and paste man and the other Lemmings that follow the Cllrs propaganda. . Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?
B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.[/p][/quote]Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers. Southy, why do make things up as you go along?[/p][/quote]B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S dango
  • Score: 0

5:10pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!
Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need![/p][/quote]Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-) dango
  • Score: 0

5:26pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Roger Khan says...

dango wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!
Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)
I think its time they chained themselves to some railings. Ice Rink
[quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need![/p][/quote]Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)[/p][/quote]I think its time they chained themselves to some railings. Ice Rink Roger Khan
  • Score: 0

5:42pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!
Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!
That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!
We all contribute to their wages, we don't all slag them off, that is the difference. What do you call a wheelie with an Iron Lady in it? = Full!
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road. Thank you guys![/p][/quote]Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha![/p][/quote]That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-) I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking![/p][/quote]We all contribute to their wages, we don't all slag them off, that is the difference. What do you call a wheelie with an Iron Lady in it? = Full! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Roger Khan wrote:
dango wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!
Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)
I think its time they chained themselves to some railings. Ice Rink
That's OK as long as a Pikey doesn't knick them for scrap.......
[quote][p][bold]Roger Khan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need![/p][/quote]Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)[/p][/quote]I think its time they chained themselves to some railings. Ice Rink[/p][/quote]That's OK as long as a Pikey doesn't knick them for scrap....... OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

5:57pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be. MGRA
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............

. UNIONS!
I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS![/p][/quote]I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

6:08pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Did he ask you if you supported him, was he aware of the vitriolic posts that you and the other "Talabin" members sent on here about the binmen? In answer to your first question did he want to strike, no he didn't, no one, not even Unions want to strike, ask them again. Manipulated is too strong a term in this instance, you are wrong with that assumption, these guys are not as thick as you make them out to be, they all have minds of their own and use them.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Did he ask you if you supported him, was he aware of the vitriolic posts that you and the other "Talabin" members sent on here about the binmen? In answer to your first question did he want to strike, no he didn't, no one, not even Unions want to strike, ask them again. Manipulated is too strong a term in this instance, you are wrong with that assumption, these guys are not as thick as you make them out to be, they all have minds of their own and use them. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

6:11pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............


. UNIONS!
I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.
Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS![/p][/quote]I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.[/p][/quote]Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner. As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved. When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong. At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

6:12pm Mon 18 Jul 11

VeryWorriedParent says...

I have to commend the binmen who came back to work today. Hooray for the strikers they emptied my bin today for the third time in 8 weeks. I had about 12 black bags in my drive but didnt put them as I thought they wouldn't take them. To my surprise they came into my drive and took the lot. Thankyou to you all and before you synics start it was the striking workmen not the cowboys I have seen in the private trucks picking up rubbish willy nilly and not clearing all rubbish. You workers deserve all the pay you get.
Don't let that poisened dwarfe win he will be back in the chocolate factory as an umpla lumpa by may woo hoo
I have to commend the binmen who came back to work today. Hooray for the strikers they emptied my bin today for the third time in 8 weeks. I had about 12 black bags in my drive but didnt put them as I thought they wouldn't take them. To my surprise they came into my drive and took the lot. Thankyou to you all and before you synics start it was the striking workmen not the cowboys I have seen in the private trucks picking up rubbish willy nilly and not clearing all rubbish. You workers deserve all the pay you get. Don't let that poisened dwarfe win he will be back in the chocolate factory as an umpla lumpa by may woo hoo VeryWorriedParent
  • Score: 0

6:21pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Did he ask you if you supported him, was he aware of the vitriolic posts that you and the other "Talabin" members sent on here about the binmen? In answer to your first question did he want to strike, no he didn't, no one, not even Unions want to strike, ask them again. Manipulated is too strong a term in this instance, you are wrong with that assumption, these guys are not as thick as you make them out to be, they all have minds of their own and use them.
"thick" is a relative term. He knows I don't support his strike, I told him I think its a political strike. I also told him that I would have spent the last 6 months doing his job on the new money than mine in this climate...I told him I had the opinion that they were being lazy and workshy taking the union money to sit at home... He called me something. regards your comment about the Union not wanting to strike, Well its clearly a political strike and of course they want to strike, they want to justify their own existance. The only spanner in the works for them, is that SCC also want them to strike. It will unltimately serve their goals. I think this is the point most miss with all this. There is a smoke screen being put up but its not fooling many. This strike plan of the Unions was based on a huge false assumption. I still think they will be wanting a way out before the SCC. We shall see.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Did he ask you if you supported him, was he aware of the vitriolic posts that you and the other "Talabin" members sent on here about the binmen? In answer to your first question did he want to strike, no he didn't, no one, not even Unions want to strike, ask them again. Manipulated is too strong a term in this instance, you are wrong with that assumption, these guys are not as thick as you make them out to be, they all have minds of their own and use them.[/p][/quote]"thick" is a relative term. He knows I don't support his strike, I told him I think its a political strike. I also told him that I would have spent the last 6 months doing his job on the new money than mine in this climate...I told him I had the opinion that they were being lazy and workshy taking the union money to sit at home... He called me something. regards your comment about the Union not wanting to strike, Well its clearly a political strike and of course they want to strike, they want to justify their own existance. The only spanner in the works for them, is that SCC also want them to strike. It will unltimately serve their goals. I think this is the point most miss with all this. There is a smoke screen being put up but its not fooling many. This strike plan of the Unions was based on a huge false assumption. I still think they will be wanting a way out before the SCC. We shall see. MGRA
  • Score: 0

6:39pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Very interesting MGRA. I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

6:45pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work
From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Very interesting MGRA. I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work[/p][/quote]From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course. MGRA
  • Score: 0

6:51pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............



. UNIONS!
I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.
Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.
Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS![/p][/quote]I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.[/p][/quote]Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner. As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved. When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong. At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.[/p][/quote]Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

MGRA wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work
From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.
Let us hope you are right, that's the most sensible post from you so far, much better without all the Right Wing rhetoric, keep it up.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Very interesting MGRA. I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work[/p][/quote]From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.[/p][/quote]Let us hope you are right, that's the most sensible post from you so far, much better without all the Right Wing rhetoric, keep it up. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA,
I hope they do take the sensible approach and call off the industrial action.

The points your friend made about the low turnover of staff showing how good the terms and conditions are, are very significant, and backs up what we have been saying all along.

Its not just among bin men that many are accepting of the cuts and unwilling to strike.

It's a shame more people dont participate in the ballots, as I think it is likely that with a large turnout they would be unlikely to get a majority in favour of continuing strike action at this time.

The government should get a move on and require ballots to include over 50% of eligible members to be in favour of a strike for action to go ahead. The significant proportion of members who are not sufficiently interested in a strike to vote in a ballot would then have a good chance to carry the day against strikes in many cases.
MGRA, I hope they do take the sensible approach and call off the industrial action. The points your friend made about the low turnover of staff showing how good the terms and conditions are, are very significant, and backs up what we have been saying all along. Its not just among bin men that many are accepting of the cuts and unwilling to strike. It's a shame more people dont participate in the ballots, as I think it is likely that with a large turnout they would be unlikely to get a majority in favour of continuing strike action at this time. The government should get a move on and require ballots to include over 50% of eligible members to be in favour of a strike for action to go ahead. The significant proportion of members who are not sufficiently interested in a strike to vote in a ballot would then have a good chance to carry the day against strikes in many cases. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

7:05pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.
Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work
From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.
Let us hope you are right, that's the most sensible post from you so far, much better without all the Right Wing rhetoric, keep it up.
I am not rightwing. I am for nationalisation of electricity and gas for example. I am not blanket anti-union either. I am just not fooled by a bunch of greedy union bosses stoking up trouble for their own political ends. I am an economist, but certainly not a pure capitalist. I am for free markets, but with appropriate social responsibility through regulation. I find it absolutely hilarious that you do not see the irony of a gullible SCC striker being given a banner saying "is royston worth 5 social workers" when it could equally say "is Prentice worth 8 social workers" !?!? hypocracy I can not stand. Its rife in this country. Unions have a history of blindly stoking disruption for their own aims. But I also know of some very good local branches of certain unions that have done some very good work to genuinely protect their members from injustice. I also know that they local union reps are not earning hundreds of thousands of pounds like the union fat cats that are directly causing the problems in southampton.
I think there should even be more solid union representation in certain areas of the economy. I would not last long in any Tory Party....
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.[/p][/quote]Very interesting MGRA. I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work[/p][/quote]From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.[/p][/quote]Let us hope you are right, that's the most sensible post from you so far, much better without all the Right Wing rhetoric, keep it up.[/p][/quote]I am not rightwing. I am for nationalisation of electricity and gas for example. I am not blanket anti-union either. I am just not fooled by a bunch of greedy union bosses stoking up trouble for their own political ends. I am an economist, but certainly not a pure capitalist. I am for free markets, but with appropriate social responsibility through regulation. I find it absolutely hilarious that you do not see the irony of a gullible SCC striker being given a banner saying "is royston worth 5 social workers" when it could equally say "is Prentice worth 8 social workers" !?!? hypocracy I can not stand. Its rife in this country. Unions have a history of blindly stoking disruption for their own aims. But I also know of some very good local branches of certain unions that have done some very good work to genuinely protect their members from injustice. I also know that they local union reps are not earning hundreds of thousands of pounds like the union fat cats that are directly causing the problems in southampton. I think there should even be more solid union representation in certain areas of the economy. I would not last long in any Tory Party.... MGRA
  • Score: 0

7:08pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA,
Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?
MGRA, Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it? Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

7:14pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

party,,,,,,,,,,,wher
e,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll bring beer and chicken wings!
party,,,,,,,,,,,wher e,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll bring beer and chicken wings! dango
  • Score: 0

7:15pm Mon 18 Jul 11

cyber_fug says...

Good post MGRA, add in "
controlled immigration" and you would get my vote ;o)

To me, most of what you have posted is common sense, but too many people get so blinded by their own political stance their common sense goes out of the window.
Good post MGRA, add in " controlled immigration" and you would get my vote ;o) To me, most of what you have posted is common sense, but too many people get so blinded by their own political stance their common sense goes out of the window. cyber_fug
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
MGRA,
Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?
I would have to loose my "nationalise the utilities" stance to join the Tory Party..... But I can't, Gullible people in this country are currently being conned into joining a 2 year fixed tarriff with British Gas for a further 5% premium on top of the existing price hike. They know full well the whole sale gas price will fall in the next couple of years and are using this 5% increase to "hedge" against their own forecast. This is deeply immoral since its mainly the elderly who will fall for this scam. In my opinion we need to nationalise the utilites of water,gas and electricity as a matter of urgency for national security and for the benefit of millions of consumers. Also the Torys still believe the global warming scam and the public are being fleeced in carbon and green taxes to stop global warming in a world that had been cooling since 1998 and will continue to do so.... so right of centre I may be, but can't see them welcoming me with open arms. Free market is still more important to Tories than economic justice and fairness. imo.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: MGRA, Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?[/p][/quote]I would have to loose my "nationalise the utilities" stance to join the Tory Party..... But I can't, Gullible people in this country are currently being conned into joining a 2 year fixed tarriff with British Gas for a further 5% premium on top of the existing price hike. They know full well the whole sale gas price will fall in the next couple of years and are using this 5% increase to "hedge" against their own forecast. This is deeply immoral since its mainly the elderly who will fall for this scam. In my opinion we need to nationalise the utilites of water,gas and electricity as a matter of urgency for national security and for the benefit of millions of consumers. Also the Torys still believe the global warming scam and the public are being fleeced in carbon and green taxes to stop global warming in a world that had been cooling since 1998 and will continue to do so.... so right of centre I may be, but can't see them welcoming me with open arms. Free market is still more important to Tories than economic justice and fairness. imo. MGRA
  • Score: 0

7:25pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

cyber_fug wrote:
Good post MGRA, add in "
controlled immigration" and you would get my vote ;o)

To me, most of what you have posted is common sense, but too many people get so blinded by their own political stance their common sense goes out of the window.
immigration is complicated. Despite what some many think, our EU membership is about benefit/detriment neutral in terms of pure costs and funding but beneficial for trade obviously. As EU members, freedom of movement exists and therefore EU resisdents are not immigrants. Then there is the problem of our skills shortages. We absolutely have to have immigration from outside the EU otherwise our hospitals and some other vital services would grind to a halt. The "problem" immigration certainly exists and is a result of 13 years of labours see no , speak no , hear no evil on the matter.... so we are where we are and need to implement sensible safegaurds but we also have to be realistic.
[quote][p][bold]cyber_fug[/bold] wrote: Good post MGRA, add in " controlled immigration" and you would get my vote ;o) To me, most of what you have posted is common sense, but too many people get so blinded by their own political stance their common sense goes out of the window.[/p][/quote]immigration is complicated. Despite what some many think, our EU membership is about benefit/detriment neutral in terms of pure costs and funding but beneficial for trade obviously. As EU members, freedom of movement exists and therefore EU resisdents are not immigrants. Then there is the problem of our skills shortages. We absolutely have to have immigration from outside the EU otherwise our hospitals and some other vital services would grind to a halt. The "problem" immigration certainly exists and is a result of 13 years of labours see no , speak no , hear no evil on the matter.... so we are where we are and need to implement sensible safegaurds but we also have to be realistic. MGRA
  • Score: 0

7:37pm Mon 18 Jul 11

southy says...

dango wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?
B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S
Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them.

Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more.

But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge.

Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing.

When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more.
The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.
[quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.[/p][/quote]Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers. Southy, why do make things up as you go along?[/p][/quote]B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S[/p][/quote]Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them. Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more. But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge. Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing. When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more. The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy. southy
  • Score: 0

7:41pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Hopeful Saints fan says...

southy wrote:
Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy,

A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this?

Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.
At the moment the majority of people are backing the strikers, strike over public services are not just contained to Southampton any more it has gone national.

The right thing to do for any council is to say no to government, but to tell the government to look at where the country is losing the most of the money and it what direction and close the loop hole IE like the £120 Billion thats being lost in Tax Revenue that not being paid by the Super Rich each year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion.
If cuts and saving must be made then the right way is to start at the very top and slowly work down wards, The top effects less people and do less harm to the Economy.
The Council should be asking for more of there money back, if not then the Council should stop letting the Government having the Council Tax and Rent and House sells money first, and let the Government have the left overs after the Council finished using what is needed.
Southy,

I would disagree about the majority of people backing the strikes, but that's because I know different people, so I would have to say that it would be best to agree to disagree about this unless a full vote was put to all eligible voters in the area.

As for your comments on getting the government to deal with the super rich, perhaps you should get your strikers to target the rich people, not the ordinary person who does pay their tax for a service they're not receiving, or even better why not get the strikers to picket Westminster, since it's all their fault?
That's what people with petitions do, and they can prove the support of the public to their cause. Do you think the union could get a petition organised?
Better still, use the back of the picket boards so that you can also recycle at the same time!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hopeful Saints fan[/bold] wrote: Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.[/p][/quote]At the moment the majority of people are backing the strikers, strike over public services are not just contained to Southampton any more it has gone national. The right thing to do for any council is to say no to government, but to tell the government to look at where the country is losing the most of the money and it what direction and close the loop hole IE like the £120 Billion thats being lost in Tax Revenue that not being paid by the Super Rich each year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion. If cuts and saving must be made then the right way is to start at the very top and slowly work down wards, The top effects less people and do less harm to the Economy. The Council should be asking for more of there money back, if not then the Council should stop letting the Government having the Council Tax and Rent and House sells money first, and let the Government have the left overs after the Council finished using what is needed.[/p][/quote]Southy, I would disagree about the majority of people backing the strikes, but that's because I know different people, so I would have to say that it would be best to agree to disagree about this unless a full vote was put to all eligible voters in the area. As for your comments on getting the government to deal with the super rich, perhaps you should get your strikers to target the rich people, not the ordinary person who does pay their tax for a service they're not receiving, or even better why not get the strikers to picket Westminster, since it's all their fault? That's what people with petitions do, and they can prove the support of the public to their cause. Do you think the union could get a petition organised? Better still, use the back of the picket boards so that you can also recycle at the same time! Hopeful Saints fan
  • Score: 0

7:42pm Mon 18 Jul 11

now in the north says...

how bout the council dont get any tax...and the people do the jobs between themselves...if only people would do their share, we could cut out the middle man.
hate-earn
how bout the council dont get any tax...and the people do the jobs between themselves...if only people would do their share, we could cut out the middle man. hate-earn now in the north
  • Score: 0

7:44pm Mon 18 Jul 11

go ahead punk make my day says...

A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this. go ahead punk make my day
  • Score: 0

7:49pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
dango wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?
B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S
Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them.

Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more.

But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge.

Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing.

When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more.
The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.
I love you for your humour! You are the funniest guy ever! x
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.[/p][/quote]Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers. Southy, why do make things up as you go along?[/p][/quote]B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S[/p][/quote]Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them. Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more. But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge. Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing. When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more. The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.[/p][/quote]I love you for your humour! You are the funniest guy ever! x IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

7:50pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

and the Council couldn't have it's policy amended during the strike? When I next renew my licence, I won't bother checking what it says about others driving my car as that is of no realavence. I may double check my insurance policy, but I probably won't do that either, as I always have myself as the named driver. Anyway, post(?), keep it up :-) I'm off to see if I can raise £500 deposit for MGRA and see if he'll stand as an independant in the next council elections!
and the Council couldn't have it's policy amended during the strike? When I next renew my licence, I won't bother checking what it says about others driving my car as that is of no realavence. I may double check my insurance policy, but I probably won't do that either, as I always have myself as the named driver. Anyway, post(?), keep it up :-) I'm off to see if I can raise £500 deposit for MGRA and see if he'll stand as an independant in the next council elections! dango
  • Score: 0

7:52pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

now in the north, Bolton, The Richmond ring any bells with you? ;-)
now in the north, Bolton, The Richmond ring any bells with you? ;-) dango
  • Score: 0

7:58pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

southy wrote:
dango wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
southy wrote:
dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!
The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.
Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?
B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S
Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them.

Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more.

But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge.

Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing.

When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more.
The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.
You cannot compare your personal Policy to a Company Policy. The Council will hold a Policy which covers it's employees in bulk, they don't have named drivers like on our personal Policy.

As with my Company Policy, it would cover Agency workers with my permission, but that would mean I would need a copy of each Agency workers driving Licence etc. Maybe the Council chose to just leave the Insurance to a hire company via the Agency to save costs and time.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/ s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that![/p][/quote]The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.[/p][/quote]Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers. Southy, why do make things up as you go along?[/p][/quote]B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S[/p][/quote]Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them. Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more. But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge. Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing. When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more. The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.[/p][/quote]You cannot compare your personal Policy to a Company Policy. The Council will hold a Policy which covers it's employees in bulk, they don't have named drivers like on our personal Policy. As with my Company Policy, it would cover Agency workers with my permission, but that would mean I would need a copy of each Agency workers driving Licence etc. Maybe the Council chose to just leave the Insurance to a hire company via the Agency to save costs and time. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

7:58pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
I would also introduce pricing of the water/gas/electricit
y so that the first packet used per week that would equate to what an ordinary elderly person would use would be FREE. then the next packet used that week chargeable, then the next at a higher rate and so on. This would encourage high energy users to use smart meters and also means that careless users would help pay for basic users....we are heading towards a country where 2 million elderly people will be planning financially on how to survice each winter and its a national disgrace.
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]I would also introduce pricing of the water/gas/electricit y so that the first packet used per week that would equate to what an ordinary elderly person would use would be FREE. then the next packet used that week chargeable, then the next at a higher rate and so on. This would encourage high energy users to use smart meters and also means that careless users would help pay for basic users....we are heading towards a country where 2 million elderly people will be planning financially on how to survice each winter and its a national disgrace. MGRA
  • Score: 0

8:18pm Mon 18 Jul 11

hatpacker says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help. hatpacker
  • Score: 0

8:23pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Stupideditor says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
I work for the public sector and work all hours including nights and in all weathers, plus I deal with abusiive people and drunks yet I earn less then these binmen. I'm gratefull to be employed and I pay their wages as much as they pay mine but you won't see me refusing the service they pay for.

I was shocked when I saw bin lorries moving over itchen bridge, I thought it was my mind playing tricks, or the trucks had been stolen.

As I said last week when we had a private firm with polish operators come and collect our rubbish.

There are people out their who are desperate for a job and will work for less money. If you fancy the dole que then quit and give someone else a chance. Otherwise shut up and do the job your paid to do
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]I work for the public sector and work all hours including nights and in all weathers, plus I deal with abusiive people and drunks yet I earn less then these binmen. I'm gratefull to be employed and I pay their wages as much as they pay mine but you won't see me refusing the service they pay for. I was shocked when I saw bin lorries moving over itchen bridge, I thought it was my mind playing tricks, or the trucks had been stolen. As I said last week when we had a private firm with polish operators come and collect our rubbish. There are people out their who are desperate for a job and will work for less money. If you fancy the dole que then quit and give someone else a chance. Otherwise shut up and do the job your paid to do Stupideditor
  • Score: 0

8:27pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
MGRA,
Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?
I would have to loose my "nationalise the utilities" stance to join the Tory Party..... But I can't, Gullible people in this country are currently being conned into joining a 2 year fixed tarriff with British Gas for a further 5% premium on top of the existing price hike. They know full well the whole sale gas price will fall in the next couple of years and are using this 5% increase to "hedge" against their own forecast. This is deeply immoral since its mainly the elderly who will fall for this scam. In my opinion we need to nationalise the utilites of water,gas and electricity as a matter of urgency for national security and for the benefit of millions of consumers. Also the Torys still believe the global warming scam and the public are being fleeced in carbon and green taxes to stop global warming in a world that had been cooling since 1998 and will continue to do so.... so right of centre I may be, but can't see them welcoming me with open arms. Free market is still more important to Tories than economic justice and fairness. imo.
I'd agree with much of your post...
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: MGRA, Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?[/p][/quote]I would have to loose my "nationalise the utilities" stance to join the Tory Party..... But I can't, Gullible people in this country are currently being conned into joining a 2 year fixed tarriff with British Gas for a further 5% premium on top of the existing price hike. They know full well the whole sale gas price will fall in the next couple of years and are using this 5% increase to "hedge" against their own forecast. This is deeply immoral since its mainly the elderly who will fall for this scam. In my opinion we need to nationalise the utilites of water,gas and electricity as a matter of urgency for national security and for the benefit of millions of consumers. Also the Torys still believe the global warming scam and the public are being fleeced in carbon and green taxes to stop global warming in a world that had been cooling since 1998 and will continue to do so.... so right of centre I may be, but can't see them welcoming me with open arms. Free market is still more important to Tories than economic justice and fairness. imo.[/p][/quote]I'd agree with much of your post... Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

8:28pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
Your representatives haven't put anything to you. They have chosen to accept a small minority of opinion. You cannot speak on behalf of all Public Sector workers and neither can the Unions.

A lot has changed since the strike started.

I for one, can only claim that people I speak to feel the workers are better off accepting the latest proposal, but the Unions need to feed that back to ALL members.
[quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]Your representatives haven't put anything to you. They have chosen to accept a small minority of opinion. You cannot speak on behalf of all Public Sector workers and neither can the Unions. A lot has changed since the strike started. I for one, can only claim that people I speak to feel the workers are better off accepting the latest proposal, but the Unions need to feed that back to ALL members. IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

8:31pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
[quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ... MGRA
  • Score: 0

8:40pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

Just heard new strikes are going ahead next week! I hope the workers withdraw membership from the Unions before it's too late.

It's the workers I feel sorry for!
Just heard new strikes are going ahead next week! I hope the workers withdraw membership from the Unions before it's too late. It's the workers I feel sorry for! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

8:43pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

For the record, the echo have placed the poll back on this article. Dropped 4% in support of the council in a week!
For the record, the echo have placed the poll back on this article. Dropped 4% in support of the council in a week! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:12pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
Southy have you not read the posts from go ahead punk? if you had you would know what you have just said was absolutely false as he's a bin loader & he's on £19,000 a year even with tax & N.I stamp he would still be on £1,200-£1,700 a month so please tell me how on earth £1,200 works out at £160-£170 a week? even the dumbest person can see at the low figure it's £300 take home a week the higher figure would give them £400 a week if they want more there's overtime so where the hell do you get your figures from?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]Southy have you not read the posts from go ahead punk? if you had you would know what you have just said was absolutely false as he's a bin loader & he's on £19,000 a year even with tax & N.I stamp he would still be on £1,200-£1,700 a month so please tell me how on earth £1,200 works out at £160-£170 a week? even the dumbest person can see at the low figure it's £300 take home a week the higher figure would give them £400 a week if they want more there's overtime so where the hell do you get your figures from? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:18pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.
Southy have you not read the posts from go ahead punk? if you had you would know what you have just said was absolutely false as he's a bin loader & he's on £19,000 a year even with tax & N.I stamp he would still be on £1,200-£1,700 a month so please tell me how on earth £1,200 works out at £160-£170 a week? even the dumbest person can see at the low figure it's £300 take home a week the higher figure would give them £400 a week if they want more there's overtime so where the hell do you get your figures from?
Please don't confuse my man, let him have his fun. One day I'll show him fun, in the meantime just put up with him ;-)

Oh and don't forget to vote TUSC whoever they are?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.[/p][/quote]Southy have you not read the posts from go ahead punk? if you had you would know what you have just said was absolutely false as he's a bin loader & he's on £19,000 a year even with tax & N.I stamp he would still be on £1,200-£1,700 a month so please tell me how on earth £1,200 works out at £160-£170 a week? even the dumbest person can see at the low figure it's £300 take home a week the higher figure would give them £400 a week if they want more there's overtime so where the hell do you get your figures from?[/p][/quote]Please don't confuse my man, let him have his fun. One day I'll show him fun, in the meantime just put up with him ;-) Oh and don't forget to vote TUSC whoever they are? IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Mon 18 Jul 11

hatpacker says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_



together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA[/p][/quote]MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be. hatpacker
  • Score: 0

9:24pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

IronLady2010, I Googled TUSC for you :-) One result that came back was TUSC; The Union of Socialist C*N*s. (I made that up, but it could be true)
IronLady2010, I Googled TUSC for you :-) One result that came back was TUSC; The Union of Socialist C*N*s. (I made that up, but it could be true) dango
  • Score: 0

9:26pm Mon 18 Jul 11

dango says...

forgot to mention, I didn't pay a subscrption for that info either, so obviously it will be inaccurate Tory propaganda started by Thatcher:-)
forgot to mention, I didn't pay a subscrption for that info either, so obviously it will be inaccurate Tory propaganda started by Thatcher:-) dango
  • Score: 0

9:29pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

dango wrote:
IronLady2010, I Googled TUSC for you :-) One result that came back was TUSC; The Union of Socialist C*N*s. (I made that up, but it could be true)
I don't think we should be so harsh on my man. I feel we all know he has issues, so please just go with him and support him.

SUPPORT THE TUSC a new product soon to be seen in Tesco! It will be Tesco Value too BARGAIN!
[quote][p][bold]dango[/bold] wrote: IronLady2010, I Googled TUSC for you :-) One result that came back was TUSC; The Union of Socialist C*N*s. (I made that up, but it could be true)[/p][/quote]I don't think we should be so harsh on my man. I feel we all know he has issues, so please just go with him and support him. SUPPORT THE TUSC a new product soon to be seen in Tesco! It will be Tesco Value too BARGAIN! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:31pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
[quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:39pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............




. UNIONS!
I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.
Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.
Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.
Osprey as soton 1 has said the problem is if you take service pay into the equation new drivers are only just above long working bin men on wages so with a small cut & the other on a rise the driver would be on lower money than the bin loader. so the last proposal would have been acceptable if all drivers were on the same pay & all bin loaders were on the same pay.this is something the unions could have negotiated if they had bothered negotiating in the ACAS meetings.I hope they are actually negotiating in the current meetings
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS![/p][/quote]I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.[/p][/quote]Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner. As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved. When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong. At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.[/p][/quote]Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.[/p][/quote]Osprey as soton 1 has said the problem is if you take service pay into the equation new drivers are only just above long working bin men on wages so with a small cut & the other on a rise the driver would be on lower money than the bin loader. so the last proposal would have been acceptable if all drivers were on the same pay & all bin loaders were on the same pay.this is something the unions could have negotiated if they had bothered negotiating in the ACAS meetings.I hope they are actually negotiating in the current meetings loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:40pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

loosehead wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs?

My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector.

If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me!

I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do[/p][/quote]You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs? My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector. If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me! I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

9:45pm Mon 18 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

loosehead wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
Come off it Loosehead you are rambling again, try to keep your posts simple, I lose the plot on the longer ones. Stop posting those leaflets, they are only adding to the problem.Go and get a binmans job, I am sure there will be vacancies.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do[/p][/quote]Come off it Loosehead you are rambling again, try to keep your posts simple, I lose the plot on the longer ones. Stop posting those leaflets, they are only adding to the problem.Go and get a binmans job, I am sure there will be vacancies. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:50pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs?

My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector.

If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me!

I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming!
Iron Lady the biggest share holder in the post office is the Government Labour was going to sell it but didn't.I did a round (Bluebell rd ) it was more like being a parcel deliverer than a postal deliverer any thing the manager deemed was smaller than a shoe box you had to take.one Saturday in six off.a five day week the only set day off was Sunday the other day could be any day.Many would jump at doing a bin loaders job & yes I've talked to a few.Fm2 must be thinking of the old days when she describes their job as It's quite a good job otherwise the turnaround of staff would be much greater than it is
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do[/p][/quote]You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs? My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector. If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me! I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming![/p][/quote]Iron Lady the biggest share holder in the post office is the Government Labour was going to sell it but didn't.I did a round (Bluebell rd ) it was more like being a parcel deliverer than a postal deliverer any thing the manager deemed was smaller than a shoe box you had to take.one Saturday in six off.a five day week the only set day off was Sunday the other day could be any day.Many would jump at doing a bin loaders job & yes I've talked to a few.Fm2 must be thinking of the old days when she describes their job as It's quite a good job otherwise the turnaround of staff would be much greater than it is loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:57pm Mon 18 Jul 11

loosehead says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
loosehead wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
Come off it Loosehead you are rambling again, try to keep your posts simple, I lose the plot on the longer ones. Stop posting those leaflets, they are only adding to the problem.Go and get a binmans job, I am sure there will be vacancies.
Osprey I get £17,200 a year & I've tried working with teachers in coaching Rugby in the schools the problem was teachers don't want help but I'm there if he calls.I've tried jobs but one job as soon as the managers find out your already earning more than them they give you all the crap & you can do no right.I liked postmans job but took to long ( reading glasses) a dustmans job would be okay as I wouldn't need my glasses but I hope this is all sorted & none of them lose their jobs
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do[/p][/quote]Come off it Loosehead you are rambling again, try to keep your posts simple, I lose the plot on the longer ones. Stop posting those leaflets, they are only adding to the problem.Go and get a binmans job, I am sure there will be vacancies.[/p][/quote]Osprey I get £17,200 a year & I've tried working with teachers in coaching Rugby in the schools the problem was teachers don't want help but I'm there if he calls.I've tried jobs but one job as soon as the managers find out your already earning more than them they give you all the crap & you can do no right.I liked postmans job but took to long ( reading glasses) a dustmans job would be okay as I wouldn't need my glasses but I hope this is all sorted & none of them lose their jobs loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:02pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

loosehead wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
loosehead wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.
Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do
You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs?

My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector.

If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me!

I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming!
Iron Lady the biggest share holder in the post office is the Government Labour was going to sell it but didn't.I did a round (Bluebell rd ) it was more like being a parcel deliverer than a postal deliverer any thing the manager deemed was smaller than a shoe box you had to take.one Saturday in six off.a five day week the only set day off was Sunday the other day could be any day.Many would jump at doing a bin loaders job & yes I've talked to a few.Fm2 must be thinking of the old days when she describes their job as It's quite a good job otherwise the turnaround of staff would be much greater than it is
I have to disagree on one thing. NOT everyone would jump at being a bin man, it takes a 'special' person to do that job. It's a job none of us want to do! That doesn't make it skilled but rather, makes it less skilled.

You know when you're at school and you always put certain people into a (bracket), well that's what bin men are.

I am not being rude whatsoever, they should be on minimum wage OR get the Job Seekers to do the job, training would take a few minutes. Move said bin to said vehicle, don't press enter or pass go. Don't collect £200 for moving round a corner........
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.[/p][/quote]Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do[/p][/quote]You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs? My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector. If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me! I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming![/p][/quote]Iron Lady the biggest share holder in the post office is the Government Labour was going to sell it but didn't.I did a round (Bluebell rd ) it was more like being a parcel deliverer than a postal deliverer any thing the manager deemed was smaller than a shoe box you had to take.one Saturday in six off.a five day week the only set day off was Sunday the other day could be any day.Many would jump at doing a bin loaders job & yes I've talked to a few.Fm2 must be thinking of the old days when she describes their job as It's quite a good job otherwise the turnaround of staff would be much greater than it is[/p][/quote]I have to disagree on one thing. NOT everyone would jump at being a bin man, it takes a 'special' person to do that job. It's a job none of us want to do! That doesn't make it skilled but rather, makes it less skilled. You know when you're at school and you always put certain people into a (bracket), well that's what bin men are. I am not being rude whatsoever, they should be on minimum wage OR get the Job Seekers to do the job, training would take a few minutes. Move said bin to said vehicle, don't press enter or pass go. Don't collect £200 for moving round a corner........ IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

10:09pm Mon 18 Jul 11

bucktoom says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue.
sorry for going off on a tangent.
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent. bucktoom
  • Score: 0

10:10pm Mon 18 Jul 11

MGRA says...

hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_




together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.
keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.
[quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA[/p][/quote]MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.[/p][/quote]keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact. MGRA
  • Score: 0

10:11pm Mon 18 Jul 11

Torchie1 says...

hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_




together
wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.
Anyone and everyone on PAYE has access to very generous shemes to reduce their tax liability at the highest rate they pay. Try looking up SIPP and AVC as a way of reducing your tax bill or look at investing in shares in your company. SIPP offers an unbelievable 100% tax shelter while AVC plans can immeadiately remove 25% of your annual salary from the clutches of HMRC. Whether you earn enough to maximise the benefits of these schemes is another question but they are available to all on PAYE.
[quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA[/p][/quote]MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.[/p][/quote]Anyone and everyone on PAYE has access to very generous shemes to reduce their tax liability at the highest rate they pay. Try looking up SIPP and AVC as a way of reducing your tax bill or look at investing in shares in your company. SIPP offers an unbelievable 100% tax shelter while AVC plans can immeadiately remove 25% of your annual salary from the clutches of HMRC. Whether you earn enough to maximise the benefits of these schemes is another question but they are available to all on PAYE. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

10:51pm Mon 18 Jul 11

IronLady2010 says...

Apparently talks are taking place tomorrow with The Council and Unions, BUT the Unions have also announced strikes for next week before these talks!

Yet again the Unions are punishing the public! They don't even know what cards are on the table!

The Unions are killing themselves!
Apparently talks are taking place tomorrow with The Council and Unions, BUT the Unions have also announced strikes for next week before these talks! Yet again the Unions are punishing the public! They don't even know what cards are on the table! The Unions are killing themselves! IronLady2010
  • Score: 0

12:44am Tue 19 Jul 11

mallygp says...

bucktoom wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.
Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............
.....only in your heads I'm afraid.
[quote][p][bold]bucktoom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.[/p][/quote]Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled. Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man. Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage. So what do you think your worth then? How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid? Don't be shy! Tell us all. £30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000 By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training. Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No......... But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with. Public support............. .....only in your heads I'm afraid. mallygp
  • Score: 0

1:29am Tue 19 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

loosehead wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.
Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............





. UNIONS!
I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.
Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.
Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.
Osprey as soton 1 has said the problem is if you take service pay into the equation new drivers are only just above long working bin men on wages so with a small cut & the other on a rise the driver would be on lower money than the bin loader. so the last proposal would have been acceptable if all drivers were on the same pay & all bin loaders were on the same pay.this is something the unions could have negotiated if they had bothered negotiating in the ACAS meetings.I hope they are actually negotiating in the current meetings
well said Loosehead, again just goes to show its the failure of the unions to negotiate that is the issue.

Surely some common sense measure capping any rise at £22k, and stopping any cut from taking pay below £22k would help here?

Yes some people in a narrowly separated band would converge, but at least one would not leapfrog the other.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]go ahead punk make my day[/bold] wrote: By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.[/p][/quote]Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men. I hope we have all learned something from these strikes............. . UNIONS![/p][/quote]I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.[/p][/quote]Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner. As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved. When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong. At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.[/p][/quote]Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.[/p][/quote]Osprey as soton 1 has said the problem is if you take service pay into the equation new drivers are only just above long working bin men on wages so with a small cut & the other on a rise the driver would be on lower money than the bin loader. so the last proposal would have been acceptable if all drivers were on the same pay & all bin loaders were on the same pay.this is something the unions could have negotiated if they had bothered negotiating in the ACAS meetings.I hope they are actually negotiating in the current meetings[/p][/quote]well said Loosehead, again just goes to show its the failure of the unions to negotiate that is the issue. Surely some common sense measure capping any rise at £22k, and stopping any cut from taking pay below £22k would help here? Yes some people in a narrowly separated band would converge, but at least one would not leapfrog the other. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

1:36am Tue 19 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

mallygp wrote:
bucktoom wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.
Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............

.....only in your heads I'm afraid.
what an interesting post!
[quote][p][bold]mallygp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bucktoom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.[/p][/quote]Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled. Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man. Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage. So what do you think your worth then? How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid? Don't be shy! Tell us all. £30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000 By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training. Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No......... But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with. Public support............. .....only in your heads I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]what an interesting post! Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:53am Tue 19 Jul 11

Dusty says...

mallygp wrote:
bucktoom wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.
Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............

.....only in your heads I'm afraid.
Do you have an HGV+CPC? and if yes, do you class your self as unskilled?

Trouble here is these strikes are not just about bin men, there are others with other jobs in the council on strike, but because people see only as far as their bin they think that's all it involves. I call it ignorance and i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled.

They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?
[quote][p][bold]mallygp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bucktoom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.[/p][/quote]Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled. Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man. Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage. So what do you think your worth then? How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid? Don't be shy! Tell us all. £30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000 By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training. Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No......... But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with. Public support............. .....only in your heads I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]Do you have an HGV+CPC? and if yes, do you class your self as unskilled? Trouble here is these strikes are not just about bin men, there are others with other jobs in the council on strike, but because people see only as far as their bin they think that's all it involves. I call it ignorance and i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled. They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that? Dusty
  • Score: 0

7:18am Tue 19 Jul 11

BrixtonSaint says...

You lot make me laugh. Anyone moaning about bin workers wages, well if it's such a great job with great pay, I'm sure there'll be a few jobs to apply for in due course. Let's see which one of you is prepared to get up before the birds and hang out with a putrid smell all their working days.
As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!!
The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel.
No wonder Maggie had it easy.
You lot make me laugh. Anyone moaning about bin workers wages, well if it's such a great job with great pay, I'm sure there'll be a few jobs to apply for in due course. Let's see which one of you is prepared to get up before the birds and hang out with a putrid smell all their working days. As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!! The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel. No wonder Maggie had it easy. BrixtonSaint
  • Score: 0

9:46am Tue 19 Jul 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.
keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.
You still wibble on about the Labour Party running up the debt, when exactly did they do that? The Conservative / Coalition reduction in the subsidy has nothing to do with it then? The Council are obliged by law to collect rubbish so why is the Government taking away the money that is used to do it, I dont recall the Conservatives mentioning in their Election Manifesto that they were going to destroy Public Sector funding so that they could keep the Banks in profit.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA[/p][/quote]MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.[/p][/quote]keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.[/p][/quote]You still wibble on about the Labour Party running up the debt, when exactly did they do that? The Conservative / Coalition reduction in the subsidy has nothing to do with it then? The Council are obliged by law to collect rubbish so why is the Government taking away the money that is used to do it, I dont recall the Conservatives mentioning in their Election Manifesto that they were going to destroy Public Sector funding so that they could keep the Banks in profit. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

10:15am Tue 19 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Dusty wrote:
mallygp wrote:
bucktoom wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP
"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.
From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.
Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............


.....only in your heads I'm afraid.
Do you have an HGV+CPC? and if yes, do you class your self as unskilled?

Trouble here is these strikes are not just about bin men, there are others with other jobs in the council on strike, but because people see only as far as their bin they think that's all it involves. I call it ignorance and i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled.

They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?
Dusty,

The skilled drivers should, I think all of us agree, be paid more than the loaders, but, in this climate we need to look at whether the differential is maintained by increasing pay for drivers, or cutting it for loaders, which is essentially unskilled.

A lot of the other council workers understand that the currents are inevitable in the current climate, public sector has to be cut to protect the country from financial distaster. If that financial disaster comes, then the cuts will be even bigger (see Greece)

"i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled"

These are people that know in the unprotected real world of the private sector, life is very tough for unskilled workers, and the pay is much lower often than in the public sector, at or close to minimum wage. Once people earn enough to pay tax, they should rightly be cross that their tax goes to pay public sector workers more than they earn themselves for equally unskilled jobs. That is simply unjust.

"They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?"

Of course it is hard for anyone to take a pay cut, and it is bound to be massively demotivating, but efforts have been made to make the cut fair, making those higher paid take the greater share of the burden. It has to be allowed for an employer to review future terms and conditions, providing they give the employees notice of the change. If not, in the fat times, peoples pay could go up unchecked, and then in the lean times, employers would be unable to rebalance the cost base to the revenues. Public sector bodies must be able to balance their costs to match what the taxpayer can afford.

No worker is compelled to accept the new terms and conditions. The notice period gives them time to find a new job if they wish. The workers are informed that in future, any jobs for that employer will be on the basis of the new terms. Providing the cuts are fair and spread across all employees on a reasonable basis, recent experience suggests the Employment Appeal Tribunal will support it.
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mallygp[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bucktoom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]carl_sfc[/bold] wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP[/p][/quote]"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.[/p][/quote]From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.[/p][/quote]Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled. Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man. Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage. So what do you think your worth then? How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid? Don't be shy! Tell us all. £30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000 By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training. Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No......... But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with. Public support............. .....only in your heads I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]Do you have an HGV+CPC? and if yes, do you class your self as unskilled? Trouble here is these strikes are not just about bin men, there are others with other jobs in the council on strike, but because people see only as far as their bin they think that's all it involves. I call it ignorance and i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled. They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?[/p][/quote]Dusty, The skilled drivers should, I think all of us agree, be paid more than the loaders, but, in this climate we need to look at whether the differential is maintained by increasing pay for drivers, or cutting it for loaders, which is essentially unskilled. A lot of the other council workers understand that the currents are inevitable in the current climate, public sector has to be cut to protect the country from financial distaster. If that financial disaster comes, then the cuts will be even bigger (see Greece) "i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled" These are people that know in the unprotected real world of the private sector, life is very tough for unskilled workers, and the pay is much lower often than in the public sector, at or close to minimum wage. Once people earn enough to pay tax, they should rightly be cross that their tax goes to pay public sector workers more than they earn themselves for equally unskilled jobs. That is simply unjust. "They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?" Of course it is hard for anyone to take a pay cut, and it is bound to be massively demotivating, but efforts have been made to make the cut fair, making those higher paid take the greater share of the burden. It has to be allowed for an employer to review future terms and conditions, providing they give the employees notice of the change. If not, in the fat times, peoples pay could go up unchecked, and then in the lean times, employers would be unable to rebalance the cost base to the revenues. Public sector bodies must be able to balance their costs to match what the taxpayer can afford. No worker is compelled to accept the new terms and conditions. The notice period gives them time to find a new job if they wish. The workers are informed that in future, any jobs for that employer will be on the basis of the new terms. Providing the cuts are fair and spread across all employees on a reasonable basis, recent experience suggests the Employment Appeal Tribunal will support it. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

10:31am Tue 19 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

BrixtonSaint wrote:
You lot make me laugh. Anyone moaning about bin workers wages, well if it's such a great job with great pay, I'm sure there'll be a few jobs to apply for in due course. Let's see which one of you is prepared to get up before the birds and hang out with a putrid smell all their working days.
As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!!
The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel.
No wonder Maggie had it easy.
One of the things that has infuriated residents and lost the binmen a lot of support, is that the bin men have been working to rule, so even though the bin men were back at work, there were a lot of people who didnt get their bins emptied even when the bin men were back at work, and being paid by the residents again.

Many saw that as disgraceful behaviour. Particularly when working to rule means working as lowsly as possible, which isnt working to rule, its not doing your job.

"As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!! The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel."

Your comment above is hilarious. The bin strike has been designed to
give maximum inconvenience and distress to residents. The unions / strikers obviously hoped that this would mean the residents put a lot of pressure on the council....well sorry, we know whose fault this is, we put all the blame on the bin men.

That they have not been doing their jobs effectively even when NOT on strike just goes to prove that.

The bin men strikers will deserve the disdain of the residents.

I would have thought most people would feel happy if the bin collections were all outsourced now, many of us would like to get our own back on the strikers, and see them reap the rewards of their lack of concern for us the residents

I know its not just about bin men, but the strikes were only supported by a minority of workers, so we dont believe people who say the bin men are striking on behalf of everyone else. We see and hear comments from other council workers who have accepted the new terms and understand it is the best course of action in the circumstances.

Also, other than maybe libraries being closed, most of us probably havent noticed ANY inconvenience from ANY other council worker being on strike. All striking achieves is to demonstrate where future cuts can fall.
[quote][p][bold]BrixtonSaint[/bold] wrote: You lot make me laugh. Anyone moaning about bin workers wages, well if it's such a great job with great pay, I'm sure there'll be a few jobs to apply for in due course. Let's see which one of you is prepared to get up before the birds and hang out with a putrid smell all their working days. As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!! The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel. No wonder Maggie had it easy.[/p][/quote]One of the things that has infuriated residents and lost the binmen a lot of support, is that the bin men have been working to rule, so even though the bin men were back at work, there were a lot of people who didnt get their bins emptied even when the bin men were back at work, and being paid by the residents again. Many saw that as disgraceful behaviour. Particularly when working to rule means working as lowsly as possible, which isnt working to rule, its not doing your job. "As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!! The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel." Your comment above is hilarious. The bin strike has been designed to give maximum inconvenience and distress to residents. The unions / strikers obviously hoped that this would mean the residents put a lot of pressure on the council....well sorry, we know whose fault this is, we put all the blame on the bin men. That they have not been doing their jobs effectively even when NOT on strike just goes to prove that. The bin men strikers will deserve the disdain of the residents. I would have thought most people would feel happy if the bin collections were all outsourced now, many of us would like to get our own back on the strikers, and see them reap the rewards of their lack of concern for us the residents I know its not just about bin men, but the strikes were only supported by a minority of workers, so we dont believe people who say the bin men are striking on behalf of everyone else. We see and hear comments from other council workers who have accepted the new terms and understand it is the best course of action in the circumstances. Also, other than maybe libraries being closed, most of us probably havent noticed ANY inconvenience from ANY other council worker being on strike. All striking achieves is to demonstrate where future cuts can fall. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

10:33am Tue 19 Jul 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

*lowsly*? lol, typo for slowly
*lowsly*? lol, typo for slowly Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

9:20am Wed 20 Jul 11

hatpacker says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:
MGRA wrote:
hatpacker wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!
Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.
I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.
No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.
"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...
well said MGRA
MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.
keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.
You still wibble on about the Labour Party running up the debt, when exactly did they do that? The Conservative / Coalition reduction in the subsidy has nothing to do with it then? The Council are obliged by law to collect rubbish so why is the Government taking away the money that is used to do it, I dont recall the Conservatives mentioning in their Election Manifesto that they were going to destroy Public Sector funding so that they could keep the Banks in profit.
**Newsflash**

£14 billions found to finance another round of bankers' bonuses and I've lost count of those on these threads saying there is no money, our AAA rating is threatened, we could end up like the Greeks & Irish. It's a strange world that can keep a few in unbounded luxury and at the same time can't pay for essential services.

What a strange society we live in!
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hatpacker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]davesbabe[/bold] wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!![/p][/quote]Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.[/p][/quote]I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.[/p][/quote]No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.[/p][/quote]"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...[/p][/quote]well said MGRA[/p][/quote]MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.[/p][/quote]keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.[/p][/quote]You still wibble on about the Labour Party running up the debt, when exactly did they do that? The Conservative / Coalition reduction in the subsidy has nothing to do with it then? The Council are obliged by law to collect rubbish so why is the Government taking away the money that is used to do it, I dont recall the Conservatives mentioning in their Election Manifesto that they were going to destroy Public Sector funding so that they could keep the Banks in profit.[/p][/quote]**Newsflash** £14 billions found to finance another round of bankers' bonuses and I've lost count of those on these threads saying there is no money, our AAA rating is threatened, we could end up like the Greeks & Irish. It's a strange world that can keep a few in unbounded luxury and at the same time can't pay for essential services. What a strange society we live in! hatpacker
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6:13pm Wed 20 Jul 11

Leicestersaint says...

Southampton must have one of the worst run councils in Britain.
Southampton must have one of the worst run councils in Britain. Leicestersaint
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