Big city clean up begins as more strikes loom (From Daily Echo)

StEmmosfire wrote:
Yep, saw the troops in Woolston this morning by the bridge with about 20 vehicles.
.
We wont be bullied and held to ransom by these politically motivated Union Leaders.
.
I think the majority of strikers now have seen sense.
.
Support for the strikes are dwinderling.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Maine Lobster wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote: It took 23 minutes for the "Talabin" to strike, quicker than the binmen! Has anyone been sacked yet for not signing the new conracts?

More like the Gestapo than the Taliban!

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Seems like the archaeic and bully boy negotiating skills of our Council leader still are not working. . Can we possibly get a representative from Monkey World to come in so that negotiations can come to a satisfactory conclusion please. . I am not so much worried about the emptying of bins ......... but i cant take much more of the "cut and paste" brigate that infiltrate this site. . Added to that, the paragraph after paragraph of Roystons spin doctor.

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

Dusty wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/

Wupperty wrote:
re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo

d god.

BMWDellboy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

Then you obviously like the sight of maggots and rats etc ? Or is it the fact that your husband is a just a lazy f*****

pod wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.

Dusty wrote:

Wupperty wrote:
re previous post: what has the average UK wage got to do with anything? This is below-average job. Requiring minimal intelligence or free-thinking. A trained chimp could could do it. These lot should be keeping their heads down as I'm sure the general public were shocked to see how much they ARE earning already! And for what? Picking stuff up, putting stuff down.............goo


d god.

Is driving a lorry a below average job? gaining an HGV and CPC at the cost of £1000s? using state of the art in cab computer technology to proses missed bins and bins collected, cutting out admin staff. Do you think people that spend a small fortune on getting the licence and CPC to drive a lorry will bother to do it for minimum wage?

Yea any old chimp can do that. Maybe someone as ignorant as you can do it too?

Dusty wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

Funny how many who have been asked why they don't clean their own mess, come out with the same generic answer of being disabled. Seems that more of the population are disabled during bin strike time :o/

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip. And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

I think you will find most of the people at McDonalds are on minimum wage or just above, and many of them under 21, so are on the lower levels of minimum wage

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

Try to grasp the principles of selective industrial action. The bin men and others are taking strike action on behalf of ALL council employees to have maximum impact. The fact some of them would not directly lose wages is irrelevant. They have put the principle of solidarity above their own personal status. Honourable conduct that many could learn from in these selfish times

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.

Linesman wrote:
Well said ML. I suspect that the strike was instigated by the Council in an attempt to divert attention from their own short-comings. Am I the only one that thinks it strange that the Council is pushing ahead with the new multi-million pound Art Complex and Museum while, at the same time, pleading poverty and saying that they will have to sack workers if they do not take a pay cut?

Maine Lobster wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

The "five offers" you quote fail to mention that at least two of those were impossible to impliment because those who put them together in the Council were ignorant of the different arrangements for the wide scope of jobs across the Council.

The unions do accept that savings are innevitable, so why did the Council spend £25m on Guildhall square, £15m on the Titanic museum and £12k on a carpet for the Chief Exec not to mention the multi thousand pound relocation package he got for coming here?

tootle wrote:
Question is who will gain from this action. Council - no, not even if they win. Unions, only if they win. Andy Straker - been strangely silent since the TV appearance, so a loser. The workers - hmm, no way - they've proved most households can manage monthly never mind fortnightly collections, the libraries are overstaffed and, to be honest, there's probably too many of them,(likes libraries), street cleaners - well our streets aren't too bad, get community sentences to empty bins and collect litter, itchen bridge collectors - being automated anyways, traffic wardens - are we paying more for their wages than is lost in parking?, put barriers up where possible, employ the odd bod to collect meters when people honestly pay and leave dangerous parking offences to the police . The public - losers as we will end up paying for this mess regardless who wins.

Me I think it's time for knocking heads together(union and council alike) and sitting down and negotiating PROPERLY.

Condor Man wrote:
I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.

i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!!

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

well theyre not the ones who will be having the cuts though are they so whats the problem??? and how would you know are you a "walker?" well mine blo*dy well didnt!!!!

The Councillors and the Contractors are not having the cuts that is right, Its the Council front line workers that are having the cuts. thats why the industral actions they are trying to save a very good, cheap and reliable service.
It was Royston Smith who got the private Contractors in to do the rubbish, and it was the private contractors that said they have pick up rubbish at each door in the last 6 weeks.
So just think you say you not had your rubbish pick up in the last 8 weeks, when it should of been done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, at a cost of just over £34 per house hold for those 6 weeks, (90p per mth of your council tax is what it cost you to have your bins emptied) and if the Government gets its way and gets the council to privatise public services you can expect an extra seperate bill to be paid (just like when water was taken out of the rates system when it was privatise) between £22 to £26 per mth to have you bins emptied could you afford that each mth.
Every one should be backing those strikers, because they are trying to save a public services.
How I know how much the walkers are earning is because I ask and see 6 wage slips from 6 different guys, don't get suck in to the Royston Smith right wing false propaganda and smoke screens.

i dont give a toss about royston smith propaganda as you put it, its got nothing to do with saving their jobs they just dont want to lose a little bit of money!!! i dont care about the cost of it i pay my council tax so the service gets done, and im pretty sure that they wont charge us separately for getting rid of rubbish at the moment so i dont care, them striking is hardly making people listen to them is it its just angering people as we are the ones being punished NOT the council!!!!

It has every thing to do with Royston Smith, And has every thing to do about saving there jobs, 250 jobs are to go any way, next year if this Tory Council is still in control there will be 800 jobs gone and the year after that another 700 jobs are to go.
Don't be fooled in what Royston Smith is saying about saving 400 jobs thats only for this year and they will be gone next year. They want private company to take over the public services and it will cost you a hell alot more than it do now, but your Council Tax will not go down it will still go up.
And yes they will make it a seperate bill for rubbish once its been privatise, and you will end up paying at lest £22 per mth to have your bins emptied, you can find this system in the USA in most states, and this is what your Capitalist wants here in the UK, where you pay a private company for each of your services, Its what is known has a Capitalist Corporate System.

TEBOURBA wrote:
The dropping of litter is an offence punishable by a fine, this has been the case for many years.
In all this time how many litterbugs have been taken to court and fined in Southampton?
I would think that you could count the number on one hand and have fingers left over!
If the police are not prepared to invoke the law, then there is no deterrent and the 1,000's of litterbugs we have in the City will continue to pollute our streets with their rubbish!
The effects of the strike of street cleaners and refuse collectors just shows what a vitally important job they do for the community.
The wage they are on is barely a living wage, leaving very little, if any money over, for the little luxuries of life.
With food inflation runnning at over 6%, petrol at 15% and increases in gas and electricity set to hit 20% or more , why should these valuable public servants suffer a 5.5% reduction in wages!!!
What makes life a little more enjoyable is the money left over after you've paid for the essentials, i.e.--- shelter, food, heat,light, clothing etc.
I would suggest that these valuable public servants already have little left over and inflation and a pay cut will leave many of them owing at the end of the week.
Stick at it boys and girls you have my total support. the "sack'em!" brigade have no idea what they are talking about and certainly don't know what it is to go without and count the pennies at the end of the week!!!

Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy, A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this? Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.

Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th

is seems to be before any talks have taken place??

MGRA wrote:

Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th


is seems to be before any talks have taken place??

SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.

My View From Here wrote:

MGRA wrote:

Northam Lady wrote:
Just been speaking with the street cleaners in St Mary's Street. (1.00pm) They said they are coming out on strike again on Monday ...Ho Humm..............Th



is seems to be before any talks have taken place??

SCC should adopt french style litter bins for shopping areas, basically the ones they have now marked "emergency litter bins". Then they can get rid of half of their street cleaners and save a lot of money. The strike has illustrated many positives from the negatives. People in the UK produce far too much refuse, this is partly our own faults, but the supermarkets could do more. But people I have spoken to in woolston have all found ways to reduce their wastage , if this strike had not happened, they would never have bothered. So every cloud has a silver lining, maybe if they strike until they drain the Union "war chest" dry, by then a lot of southampton residents would have moved to nearer 0% waste.

Maybe the strikers should adopt the French style of striking?

When the French blockade the port, at least they do it properly.

Nod wrote:
So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

southy wrote:

Nod wrote:
So are people who don't like what Royston's doing going to vote Labour in the local elections next year and let them cut 1500 local gvernment jobs.....?

Both Torys and Labour are saying the same amount of cuts amd job loses are needed, just that the torys will do it quicker than the Labour Party, The TUSC are saying no to any cuts that results in job loses or reduction in pay for the front line workers.

mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.

Wupperty wrote:
Yeah I could do it thanks. But I pay my council yax to make sure I don't have to. And to clarify, my post referred to those who pick things up and put things down, not those who drive the truck (and I agree that anyone who has to pay for the licence or other costs should have this reflected in their wage)- although if you are trying to convinve me that of what you mentioned requires much thought then I'm amazed you have the ability to fire up your laptop.

Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy,

A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this?

Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.

davesbabe wrote:

pod wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.

i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

pod wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.

i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!

If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!

captain_chaos wrote:
You lot make me laugh! Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Half of you want to rip the previous posters head off and the other half are offering it on a plate! Haven't you got anything better to do? Mamsy pamsy idiots! It will be resolved when it gets resolved. Live with it, I am. Oh and, next year vote for someone with a bit of gumption!

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

acid drop wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Once this mess is cleaned up, how about the rest of the Citizens making the effort to keep the City clean and tidy, persuade your kids that is not right to throw your food wrappers into the street, smokers take all your packaging with you, drinkers dispose of your bottles and cans where they can be recycled, forget the Swedish model and follow the Swiss example, no litter please.

British citizens being tidy and not dropping litter DREAM ON I live close to a corner shop and when the wind is blowing my way my garden is full of sweet/cigarette packets plastic bottles and newspapers

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Condor Man wrote:
I've given this matter a lot of thought and taken into account my own beliefs and convictions (of a religious nature). I think there are problems on both sides. Have the council really sought to best course of action? was it right to cut the wages of the low paid at the same proportion as those on bigger salaries? was it right to employ a chief exec on £20k more than his replacement? Should the authority hold on to massive assets? Then I looked at the unions. Was it right to encourage binmen to strike which has left the city in such a mess? Is that a good witness for them? of course it isn't. It's bred contempt amongst many against the staff and that will stay long after this matter is resolved. Therefore SCC should release more assets to cover wages and make the senior people take bigger cuts. The unions should be less antagonistic and make sure they clean up their mess before they make bigger fools of themselves.

Service-defender wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

pod wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.

i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!

If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!

Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong.

We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation.

Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different.

Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now.

Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.

loosehead wrote:
Southy/shouty here's a idea why don't you do the normal socialist thing & round up as many workers ( working class) as you can & force them to sweep the streets & empty the bins or get no food? just look at socialist revolutions China/Cambodia in the beginning of these states how many died for that ideology? Stop banging on about it we live in a free society & people have freedoms if they want to the worlds their oyster.But this disputes about two Unions trying to p

Roger Khan wrote:

mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"

I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
So sotonians you don't want to pay a decent wage for the work carried out ,and now you don't want to pay out a decent redundancy package to trim the workforce....it's nice to feel valued! what a joke your comments are ! people have put in the years for this city pay up or shut up!

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

Service-defender wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

pod wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Why not clean up your own mess?

i happen to be disabled thankyou, and also i pay my council tax for them to give me this service so how am i supposed to take my rubbish to the tip when i have no car?? answer me that one genius!! unless you want to come and clean up my "mess" that is of their creation? no didnt think so!!!

I also pay my council tax out of hard earned money.Get your relatives or friends to do it or the person who does your shopping.

my husband works hard so we can pay our council tax too so why should we do what they pay the bin men to do? im not touching it and neither is my husband!! the binmen can when they come round and do the job theyre paid to do, just fyi the shop delivers my shopping, its called internet shopping!!!

And then of course there are others, the mess is your creation, being disabled has nothing to do with it, my mum is 87 and disabled, she has not created a mess.
Those adverts featuring sportsmen and women with false legs and in wheelchairs are an inspiration to us all, they do not let disabilities get in their way, neither do the many disabled people I work with. Disablity is not an excuse, and if your husband and his workmates had stood up to their employers instead of rolling over and getting their bellies tickled, maybe they would be on a decent wage now.

i didnt say it was a mess, i just said there are bin bags outside my house with maggots in!!, get down off your high horse, you dont know everything!! my husband never had a pay cut his job has never paid as high as the lazy bin men of southampton!!!!, for your information i have two disabled children and one of my children nearly died of heart failure so dont tell me about inspiration and disability she fought for her life and won against all odds, i never said my rubbish was a mess, its all stacked up neatly out on the pavement, double bagged waiting for them to come and get it, i was on about the streets around where i live where people arent so conscious of being clean and tidy so take that and shove it in your pipe and smoke it, dont assume when you know nothing!!!!!

If it's double bagged, how do you know it's got maggots in?

I have 2 disabled children too, and 2 more but would never dream of slagging off people like this, this council and a LOT of people working for it including refuse collectors help make our lives that bit easier day to day in all sorts of ways and I think them for that. I would also never use my kids conditions just to 'win' an argument, which is I'm afraid how this comes across..... I don't doubt life is tough, it is for us too but that doesn't mean to say you have the right to judge these men and call them lazy....

Mine wear pads, which if left would have been stinking to high heaven and be a health hazard by now. We've managed, and I don't have a 'high horse' attitude that it's other people's problem!

It's US who make the mess.... not the binmen!!

Not taking sides but your all both right and wrong.

We've cleared our rubbish but surrounding areas that haven't cleaned up are making the rest of us suffer, i'm getting really sick of seeing flies all over the place. Summer is bad for flies as it is but with piling rubbish on top of it, it is not helping the situation.

Some can clear it up and some can't everyone's situation is different.

Yes we all can do something to assist the situation but there is a case that some people just can not do it. We're lucky to have a vechical to take our rubbish too, but even going to the dump now is causing problems as traffic cues are piling up more and more. It's just getting ridiculous now.

Instead of arguing about it why don't we as a city (community) pull together and do something about it, help each other and not get heated up arguing about it.

We've been to the dump today and no traffic queue..... we've only had to wait once....

I know what you mean, we all need to take responsibility but calling people names and 'assuming' that they're lazy is just wrong and unproductive....

I think Go Punk's idea of job swaps is an excellent suggestion. I wonder quite how many people would do such a dirty, physically demanding job, with the public who are extremely ungrateful on the whole, in all weathers, pouring with rain, boiling sun (not that we've seen much of that), freezing cold and ice (we saw a lot of that!)..... if they were REALLY honest.... everyone should be paid a decent wage in order to meet the demands of modern life, there should be no 'underclass' of citizens who are deemed to be of 'less value' than the rest of us. The fact that the bin men have been missed by so many and so acutely surely demonstrates their worth! I feel ashamed of some comments here of people calling them lazy f***ers and the like. Perhaps they ought to be first in teh queue to walk in their shoes!

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Roger Khan wrote:

mummsie wrote:
Are some people blind and deaf to the fact that these strikes are still going on! Why do lazy people of this city not take their own rubbish home with them after buying drinks and food when in the city! I'd hate to know what their own homes look like if they can just drop rubbish and litter the city centre! As for the Council Workers "Get back to work .. the lot of you. At least you all have jobs that pay a wage!"

I for one always throw my rubbish on the floor, it keeps people in jobs. Never recycle either too much effort.

More Khant than Khan then?

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!

Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!

Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!

That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!

Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!

That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!

Ho! Ho! Ho! e i e i e i o into the wheelie you must.

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip!

shouty wrote:
Does anyone else aft to check the name on posts? I keep thinking I've gone un posted another parody!

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
Lewis99 £25k a year not sure what you've been reading kermit but it sure as hell is'nt my wage slip!

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.

Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!

dango wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!

Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
I have to confess, the regular bin men came today and walked up my drive to collect the bin as I wasn't expecting them. They then kindly (for the first time ever) returned the bin ONTO my drive and not on the pavement half way down the road.

Thank you guys!

Had they realised who you were, they would more likely have dumped you in the empty wheelie! Ha! ha! ha!

That's right, they'll stick someone who contributes towards their wages in the bin. Even the Bin Men aren't as silly as you ;-)

I'm just glad we are back to normal for a while. Although the City Centre still looked like a third world country today, I thought at first they were still striking!

Roger Khan wrote:

dango wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

There was a danger that had the Council lorries been used by non-striking staff they would have been "blacked", it is a weapon used in the past. Wouldn't be surprised that if any of the current binmen get the sack this week, they will turn up next week as agency staff as they have all the experience and credentials that the Agency need!

Ospreysaint, thank you, a far more plausible answer ;-)

I think its time they chained themselves to some railings. Ice Rink

IronLady2010 wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............

. UNIONS!

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............


. UNIONS!

I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

Did he ask you if you supported him, was he aware of the vitriolic posts that you and the other "Talabin" members sent on here about the binmen? In answer to your first question did he want to strike, no he didn't, no one, not even Unions want to strike, ask them again. Manipulated is too strong a term in this instance, you are wrong with that assumption, these guys are not as thick as you make them out to be, they all have minds of their own and use them.

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............



. UNIONS!

I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.

Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.

MGRA wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work

From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

MGRA wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_


together wrote:

MGRA wrote:
i spoke to a Bin-Guy early this afternoon. He said he was getting disillusioned. I asked him if he wanted to strike, he said at first he did but that now he was not so sure. I asked him if he thought he was paid well for what he did and he replied "turn-over of employees is low, I guess that means yes we are paid pretty well". I asked him how he would respond to a pay cut and he said "I would stay in the job and not look elsewhere, I like the job and the guys I work with" Then I asked him a key question : "Do you see your situation as it sits within the bigger picture of the UK economy" , he replied "Yes". I spoke to this guy because I went to school with him, we chat everynow and then, he lives near where I work. I asked him if all bin men see it like he did, he said "no". I asked him if there are divisions in the workforce, he said "no, we don't talk about it as much you may think, many are just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet". I asked him if any bin guys have been intimidated or bullied by Union reps etc etc, he said no, not to his knowledge. So after a very enlightening 10 minute chat with an old chum I can conclude that Lazy they are not it seems, manipulated they may well be.

Very interesting MGRA.

I hope pragmatic workers like this will tell the militant minority where to go, and vote to go back to work

From what I gathered, most of these bin guys actually like their job and their workmates and I suspect deep down most will no longer be wanting to strike and ready to take one step backwards to hopefully take two steps forward in the future... I could be wrong of course.

Let us hope you are right, that's the most sensible post from you so far, much better without all the Right Wing rhetoric, keep it up.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:
MGRA,
Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?

cyber_fug wrote:
Good post MGRA, add in "
controlled immigration" and you would get my vote ;o)

To me, most of what you have posted is common sense, but too many people get so blinded by their own political stance their common sense goes out of the window.

dango wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.

Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?

B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S

southy wrote:

Hopeful Saints fan wrote:
Southy,

A legitimate question has been raised - what is the Union's solution to this?

Go on enlighten us, and by the way the answer's not the 'give in completely to the unions', as you would have the free thinking people who are unimpressed with both sides.

At the moment the majority of people are backing the strikers, strike over public services are not just contained to Southampton any more it has gone national.

The right thing to do for any council is to say no to government, but to tell the government to look at where the country is losing the most of the money and it what direction and close the loop hole IE like the £120 Billion thats being lost in Tax Revenue that not being paid by the Super Rich each year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion.
If cuts and saving must be made then the right way is to start at the very top and slowly work down wards, The top effects less people and do less harm to the Economy.
The Council should be asking for more of there money back, if not then the Council should stop letting the Government having the Council Tax and Rent and House sells money first, and let the Government have the left overs after the Council finished using what is needed.

southy wrote:

dango wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.

Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?

B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S

Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them.

Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more.

But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge.

Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing.

When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more.
The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.

southy wrote:

dango wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
I was just wondering why, when agency workers were doing the binmens jobs over the last few weeks, the council found it necessary to hire a small fleet of bin lorries aswel, or were their own vehicles on strike also? Did the lorries have to sign a new contract before they would go back to work? It seemed like an extra expense we don't need. Just sayin', is all :-/
s/w free-rain, haven't we had enough of that!

The drivers for those council bin lorrys are named drivers to the insurance people, to add more names to the insurance to drive and operate the lorrys would be at a cost.

Rubbish! The Agency workers are not City Council employees hence why they aren't insured, nothing to do with being named drivers.

Southy, why do make things up as you go along?

B*llsh!t Southy. I've worked for plenty of driving agencies and all we ever had to do was supply our realavent documentation. The companies have insurance in place so that they can hire and fire on an as needed basis. Are you SEIOUSLY telling me the council has to take out a new policy for each and evry driver of it's whole fleet! :-S

Its not made up nor is it b*llsh"!t, Its cheaper to have named drivers than to have any one with the right kind of licence to drive them.

Driving Agencies can not say if a driver will be back the next day or the next time they ask for that person to do a driving job for them, so they operate with a open policy for any one to drive for them. And it cost more.

But with council they are full time employees and the drivers are named on that policy to drive for the council, its not a new policy for each driver, its one policy to cover all the name drivers, and if there a need to add a driver or remove a driver then its just a phone call to ammend the policy at no cost or a small admin charge.

Driving for an Agency one thing and Driving for some one like the Council is another thing.

When you renew your car licence read what it says about other drivers driving your car, its basically the same, you can add other drivers to your car at a little bit more cost or you can have any body can drive your car which cost even more.
The Council operates on a name driver policy and not any one can drive policy.

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

MGRA wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:
MGRA,
Perhaps you would improve the party if more people like you joined it?

I would have to loose my "nationalise the utilities" stance to join the Tory Party..... But I can't, Gullible people in this country are currently being conned into joining a 2 year fixed tarriff with British Gas for a further 5% premium on top of the existing price hike. They know full well the whole sale gas price will fall in the next couple of years and are using this 5% increase to "hedge" against their own forecast. This is deeply immoral since its mainly the elderly who will fall for this scam. In my opinion we need to nationalise the utilites of water,gas and electricity as a matter of urgency for national security and for the benefit of millions of consumers. Also the Torys still believe the global warming scam and the public are being fleeced in carbon and green taxes to stop global warming in a world that had been cooling since 1998 and will continue to do so.... so right of centre I may be, but can't see them welcoming me with open arms. Free market is still more important to Tories than economic justice and fairness. imo.

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_


together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Take home pay after all deductions for dustbin man walker is only £160 to £170 per week, try asking a dustbin man if you can see his wage slip.
And accordding to the Contracting Dustbin men all areas got done at lest once in the last 6 weeks, so if there a problem there try and take it up with Royston Smith and the Contractors.

Southy have you not read the posts from go ahead punk? if you had you would know what you have just said was absolutely false as he's a bin loader & he's on £19,000 a year even with tax & N.I stamp he would still be on £1,200-£1,700 a month so please tell me how on earth £1,200 works out at £160-£170 a week? even the dumbest person can see at the low figure it's £300 take home a week the higher figure would give them £400 a week if they want more there's overtime so where the hell do you get your figures from?

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_



together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

well said MGRA

dango wrote:
IronLady2010, I Googled TUSC for you :-) One result that came back was TUSC; The Union of Socialist C*N*s. (I made that up, but it could be true)

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............




. UNIONS!

I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.

Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.

Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.

loosehead wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do

loosehead wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do

You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs?

My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector.

If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me!

I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming!

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

loosehead wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do

Come off it Loosehead you are rambling again, try to keep your posts simple, I lose the plot on the longer ones. Stop posting those leaflets, they are only adding to the problem.Go and get a binmans job, I am sure there will be vacancies.

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
A first for me, i agree with what mgra has to say for once! bring utilities back into state ownership, look after our elderly properly, and stop ripping us all off every bloody year! having to rely on other nations for your power is a dangerous policy to maintain you just have to look at Russia and Ukraine for this.

Go Ahead I've seen bin men work please explain to me how it's knackering & filthy ? I don't want to knock you people but let's put a bit of reality into this post.I would quite happily do your job for a day (5-6 hours? ) I've told you I deliver 1,600 leaflets a day it could be two or four but the average wage is £45 to pull a trolley & carry a bag to go up & down stairs in flats & to take abuse is part of the job how would you like to go to every door? Why not get your Unions to talk about no driver getting a cut as part of the deal & once included in the last proposal go back to work after all Royston said what's the point of going to ACAS as the unions won't negotiate & wasn't he proved right.now your the unions tell them what to do not them telling you what to do

You are fighting a losing battle Loosehead. I have said before, do you remember the days of bin men collecting from your back garden, opening and closing your gate, physically lifting a heavy bin onto their backs?

My postman earns less than a bin man and he carries a heavy sack all morning. But never mind as they are now private sector.

If bin collections were to be privatised and we had to pay seperately, I would choose not to pay and take my own rubbish to the tip, but that's me!

I have nothing against the bin-men, other than they are sucking up to the unions and doing themselves out of a job and I genuinly feel for them as they can't see it coming!

Iron Lady the biggest share holder in the post office is the Government Labour was going to sell it but didn't.I did a round (Bluebell rd ) it was more like being a parcel deliverer than a postal deliverer any thing the manager deemed was smaller than a shoe box you had to take.one Saturday in six off.a five day week the only set day off was Sunday the other day could be any day.Many would jump at doing a bin loaders job & yes I've talked to a few.Fm2 must be thinking of the old days when she describes their job as It's quite a good job otherwise the turnaround of staff would be much greater than it is

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote:
Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do"
Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_




together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

well said MGRA

MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_




together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote:
nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate....

....five offers from the council, people.

Not one, FIVE

That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating...

The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen).

The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members.

In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more.

It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress.

Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis.

The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

well said MGRA

MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.

bucktoom wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.

loosehead wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

go ahead punk make my day wrote:
By the way, today we cleared over 24 tonnes of waste on our round hardly lazy! if you don't agree why not come and job swap for a week until then don't pretend you know the in's and outs of my job you think you do but you know sweet f.a.

Well done! I feel as the strikes have progressed a lot of us have realised this is more of a political issue rather than place the blame with just the bin men.

I hope we have all learned something from these strikes.............





. UNIONS!

I hope you have enjoyed your recent education, but Unions have been around for rather a long time defending ordinary people from tyranny, have you not heard about the Tolpuddle Martyrs, they were 19th Century victims of a Royston like personality called James Frampton who got six of his workers deported for standing up to his despotic behaviour. Read the story it has amazing similarities. This year as in many there was big festival at Tolpuddle where all the Unions gather to honour the six.

Osprey, I always admit when I am wrong. When I first started posting on here, I was aggressive and abusive. Since then, I would like to think that I contribute to the comment section in a better manner.

As I am not subject to all the facts from the Council, I read things in the press and look at statements from each side involved.

When I look back through statements from Unite, Unison and Royston etc. You can hardly blame me for thinking the Unions are in the wrong.

At least I admit when I am wrong! I am yet to see an alternative proposal from the Unions as to what they would do! They just harp on about withdraw this and that. I hope this week they talk and put aside any political issues and just concentrate on the workers and the public in SOUTHAMPTON.

Your mellowing has been duly noted, your membership of the "Talabin" is in jeopardy! I am not too happy that they look like going on strike again on Monday, they must realise that even their most enthusiastic supporters have a shelf life! Again I say don't take me too seriously, I love to tease but I am harmless really! None of us know the real facts but the fact that the Council made five offers, all rejected makes me think that they were nowhere near good enough, otherwise they would have bitten their hands off! Come on Royston, do us favour, make a decent offer, with planned talks later to do the real deal.

Osprey as soton 1 has said the problem is if you take service pay into the equation new drivers are only just above long working bin men on wages so with a small cut & the other on a rise the driver would be on lower money than the bin loader. so the last proposal would have been acceptable if all drivers were on the same pay & all bin loaders were on the same pay.this is something the unions could have negotiated if they had bothered negotiating in the ACAS meetings.I hope they are actually negotiating in the current meetings

mallygp wrote:

bucktoom wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.

Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............

.....only in your heads I'm afraid.

mallygp wrote:

bucktoom wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.

Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............

.....only in your heads I'm afraid.

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

well said MGRA

MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.

keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.

Dusty wrote:

mallygp wrote:

bucktoom wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

carl_sfc wrote: Sack the bin men, there are loads of people worrying about their jobs at the moment and some that have in fact lost their jobs in recent months. A pay cut of 5% is not nice no but I would rather take a pay cut than lose my job all together. They are well over paid for what they do, not likt the old days where they had to carry a metal bin on their backs down country lanes! -GET A GRIP

"They are well overpaid for what they do" Staggering ignorance. Most earn £21/£22k. What do you think is a reasonable wage for getting up at 4-30 in all weathers and doing the job then? Most people in McDonalds earn as much.

From experience i can tell you that working in McDonalds is actually very hard work. Physically demanding, socially demeaning and with a bit of old fashioned snobbery involved that meant customers felt free to physically and verbally attack the members of staff, most of which were university students just trying to pay their way through their education. Im now a nurse and there are similarities however i now feel fulfilled and rewarded in my current job though goodness knows how long that will continue. sorry for going off on a tangent.

Do I take it that to be a bin man you have to be skilled.

Thats the problem today. Non Skilled want just as much money as the skilled man.

Look I'm sure what you do is very demanding and yes you do start very early don't you! But surely no more demanding than a carer wiping an elderly persons bottom at 4 in the morning on minimum wage.

So what do you think your worth then?
How much should an un-skilled bin man be paid?

Don't be shy! Tell us all.

£30,000 maybe £40,000 or even £50,000

By the way for the past 6 weeks I have been doing your job for you without any training.

Do you believe you could do the same with a skilled job? No.........

But yet you want the same pay. Wake up and smell the BS you lot are fouling this forum with.

Public support.............


.....only in your heads I'm afraid.

Do you have an HGV+CPC? and if yes, do you class your self as unskilled?

Trouble here is these strikes are not just about bin men, there are others with other jobs in the council on strike, but because people see only as far as their bin they think that's all it involves. I call it ignorance and i like the way people expect others to live on a pittance because they deem a job unskilled.

They had a contract, they took the job on with that contract pay and conditions and now someone comes along says i am tearing it up sign the new one or your sacked, and some of you see nothing wrong with that?

BrixtonSaint wrote:
You lot make me laugh. Anyone moaning about bin workers wages, well if it's such a great job with great pay, I'm sure there'll be a few jobs to apply for in due course. Let's see which one of you is prepared to get up before the birds and hang out with a putrid smell all their working days.
As for those being in support of the strike at the outset but now against it because there's a nasty smell and maggots loitering in the bin - GET A FREAKIN GRIP!!!
The first sign of doing it a bit tough and you bunch of pansies chuck in the towel.
No wonder Maggie had it easy.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:

MGRA wrote:

hatpacker wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote:

Maine Lobster wrote:

davesbabe wrote: nearly 8 weeks i havent had my bins emptied for, its just ridiculous!!, they earn more than most people do, i had sympathy at the start, but at the sight of maggots, rats etc my sympathy soon faded, get back to work you lazy f*****s!!!!

Wrong.They don't "earn more than most people do" and neither do the vast majority of Council employees. The national average wage is over £25k which is more than most. We all want our rubbish collected, but many city residents understand the corner the staff have been backed into by the bullying tactics of the Council. The strikers are back to work this week to correct you again. If the Council meets the unions instead of dodging talks,maybe a resoultion can be reached.

I cant understand why some people still believe that the council have not been prepared to negotiate.... ....five offers from the council, people. Not one, FIVE That proves that it is the council that have been negotiating... The sad thing is that the unions dont understand that they cannot dictate terms to the council, that is what the unions understand by negotiating, which is why the unions set up their precondition about abandoning the dismissal and reengagement procedure (which was never going to happen). The unions need to properly engage with the council on behalf of their members. In order to get any progress, the unions need to get over their idealogical hang ups, and just deal with the issue at hand, which is that personnel costs must be cut, and the savings must be found. Then the unions can negotiate for their members on the best way to make those savings for their members. THAT is the union job in this situation, nothing more. It is the "no to cuts" stance which has led to the strikes and lack of progress. Once you accept that the cuts are necessary, it is straightforward to see that the strikes entirely the fault of the unions, because they have not been prepared to accept this reality and negotiate on that basis. The nonsense from the unions about the council not being prepared to talk was just the council not being prepared to waste more time talking until the unions recognise the reality of the situation and actually come to the table prepared to negotiate on that basis.

No, you've lost me with this nonsense SLPT. The Council have made 5 offers. As someone on the end of these 'offers'. The 1st offer was a final take it or leave it offer. We said no. There was a 2nd 'final offer', which became a 3rd, a 4th & a 5th final offer. Now I don't know about you but the above is not the behaviour of honourable people. We'll offer x in the hope we don't have to offer y & z. My representatives have not dictated terms to anyone. We had only asked that the arbitary date of the 11th July be dropped. Ideological hang ups yes you're right. We, the workers in our section, have put up more than 20 ways to increase SCC's income. To date not one has be taken up. After efficency savings removed 8 posts, before any industrial action had started, we have now been asked if a further £2 million in savings can be made? The 1st question was how many posts can we cut. Ideologically driven cuts? Management have them in spades. Everytime we attempt to engage with management to improve things in SCC we are treated like mushrooms. You talk of reality well, if we live in your reality more and more people end up in penuary. Neither you or your like minded threaders can answer my simple question of; how will making thousands of people redundant get this country out of the financial mess we are in? This country is still a rich country, it is the priorities that need changing. Sorry to bang on about it but, if the Inland Revenue closed tax avoidance loopholes we would all be £120 billions a year better off. So, there are alternatives ~ you just have to broaden you mind to the potential there could be. It is not a private/public squabble either. I don't need to put my hand in boiling water to understand how painful scolding is. The public sector will help the private sector all it takes is to ask for help.

"this country is still a rich country" :-0. Sorry but you are going to have to re-evaluate your knowledge on this. Sovereign Debt levels are so high that is our credit rating is lowered and interests rates rise, we are on the verge of national bancrupcy. This country is poised on a knife edge. The labour message is "cuts can be achieved at a slower rate" this foolish and ill-informed and takes on the risk of the perfect storm working against us. We must cut now and we are NOT a rich nation. we MUST be in a situation asap where if interest rates rise, and yields on bonds rise and our currency is traded against, then we can weather the storm and adjust accordingly. At the moment, we are not in this position. We are in a position where the public sector are a disproportionate drain on the finances at a time when we can no longer afford it. There is no use crying over spilt milk but the huge waste of money over the last 13 years can not be repaired in the next 13 years. It has to happen in 2-4 years. We had a government that borrowed to finance the child trust fund, every £1 given will eventually cost the country £3... total and utter madness... but in the past, but things like that DID happen, and we now have to pay for it. Couple this with the fact that the banking industry is 7-8% of GDP yet yields 25% of all tax revenues means we can not even bash the banks effectively, if they pick up their coat tales and run, we are back to the middle ages ...

well said MGRA

MGRA you're back. By the way I've suggested to Thornber up at Winchester that an incinerator be built up in West End ~ super idea apparently. Sovereign debt levels yes I know about those. I was just trying to keep it simple but, hey that seems to be impossible with you lot. Clearly having asked for a 5th time in this thread; how will making thousands of people redundant solve the economic crisis this country is in? You along with all your mates on here can't answer it. Just to add a bit more. War in Afghanistan & an illegal war in Iraq before that. The bombing of Libya as part of a NATO exercise. The replacement of Trident with another nuclear system ~ yes we do have alternatives to what is happening at the moment.. What is clear is that right wingers today have not the confidence of their Conservative ancestors in the Victorian Age. If we needed a national sewerage system, a national rail network it wouldn't happen today. Move on to the end of WWII, if like then we needed a NHS, a nation wide house building programme whilst carrying a 200% debt to GDP ratio. If this was needed now it wouldn't happen you haven't got the bottle. You seem to want to frighten people with this crazy idea that if we are hard on finance it will run away. Well I for one wish it would then the billions that have been given would have been better spent. The setting of tax payers billions against loses, so that banks pay no tax should be illegal. As I've said elsewhere the only people who lose when it comes to taxation are PAYE payers as they are unable to offset earnings against dubious claims that are made by many self-employed people. Income should be taxed at the same rate for everyone no matter what their personnal circumstances might be.

keeping it simple !? it does not get more simple that national debt. Its so simple a child could understand it. you label things and pidgeon hole. It means to polarise other peoples views to make them fit your view of the world. reducing public spending over 4 years by shrinking the public sector burden is a no brainer. the sums do add up. The quicker its done , the less the risks I talked about. It would have been simpler for the labour party not to have run up the debt in the first place but hey ho. Regards your "illegal wars". you are labelling again for convenience. your labels for the way you look at the world. its a fact that banks give us 25% of all tax revenue. you just don't like that fact.

You still wibble on about the Labour Party running up the debt, when exactly did they do that? The Conservative / Coalition reduction in the subsidy has nothing to do with it then? The Council are obliged by law to collect rubbish so why is the Government taking away the money that is used to do it, I dont recall the Conservatives mentioning in their Election Manifesto that they were going to destroy Public Sector funding so that they could keep the Banks in profit.