More strikes hit city but bin men carry on working (From Daily Echo)

They are on strike again so the weather must be warming up again.

How long do we have to suffer these trade union cuts in services?

Selfish council workers on strike again! Take the pay reduction of 2.5%-5% or face redundancies, you guys dont know how lucky you are with your working conditions in the public sector. I'd certainly swop jobs!

Looks like the Unions are on the run. They've realised how unpopular the unemptied bins have become, so the binmen go back to work. Parking Wardens, Toll Collectors etc can stay out as long as they like, the majority of people can manage without them. Strike action is going nowhere.

Saint-Harley wrote:
Selfish council workers on strike again! Take the pay reduction of 2.5%-5% or face redundancies, you guys dont know how lucky you are with your working conditions in the public sector. I'd certainly swop jobs!

Why don't you and see how long you're in a job.... taking the pay cut is not a guarantee of a job, the council have misled people about that ....

I think that's a wise move by the binmen to work to rule this week, although I appreciate that feelings are running high. Also glad to see talks are continuing... However, I wish both sides wouldn't keep giving 'soundbites' which undermines talks. Can't you just say 'no comment'?

Saint-Harley wrote:
Selfish council workers on strike again! Take the pay reduction of 2.5%-5% or face redundancies, you guys dont know how lucky you are with your working conditions in the public sector. I'd certainly swop jobs!

Every body is a smart ar*se now.
.
You would not swop your job, if you have one, with the bin guys or anyone else in the council.
.
If you really wanted the jobs why havent you applied befor now then.
.
Often ads for traffic wardens, often adds for refuse collectors maily via agencies.
.
So if you really wanted then you could have applied.
.
So dont start all of this rubbish now with " you guys dont know how lucky you are".
.
Perhaps for 80p a collection ( council tax cost) you dont know how lucky YOU ARE.

I see the council have solved a little local problem in my street.
The well used public bin outside next door had not been emptied for some while and like many others had been taped up with a "Not in use" notice.
Just got back from a weeks holiday to find it has gone - been removed, is no more.
Eventually this dispute will be resolved but this bin removal action is very short-sighted as the rubbish will now end up littering the street.
So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.

freefinker wrote:
I see the council have solved a little local problem in my street.
The well used public bin outside next door had not been emptied for some while and like many others had been taped up with a "Not in use" notice.
Just got back from a weeks holiday to find it has gone - been removed, is no more.
Eventually this dispute will be resolved but this bin removal action is very short-sighted as the rubbish will now end up littering the street.
So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.

'So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.'

Can you please explain how it is in the best interest of the council or indeed anyone's to keep the streets dirty.

If bin men want to Strike then go ahead STRIKE!! But for the bin men that want to work should be allowed to do so without reprisals from the Unions!

Well at least their still talking and talking and talking ...... Are ACAS still involved ? If not then perhaps they should be.

The unions have been funding the strikers by paying full pay including allowances while they have been off. If they hadn't, support for the strike would have petered out ages ago. Certainly the parking staff and Itchen Bridge staff wouldn't be going out this week if they weren't getting the equivalent of full pay from the unions.

The bin men have finally realised that they have lost the support of the majority of residents.

It needs the extreme left and extreme right personalities to be taken out of the negotiations. They will never come to a conclusion as they are too hard line. Get the moderates together from both sides and I reckon they would come up with a resolution.

The unions have made a very clever move, to put bit of pressure upon arrogant council bosses
.
Refuse collectors working to rule will mean many bins still will not be collected, and will prove how under normal circumstances these important workers do more than their normal call of duty because the Council has not properly planned the service delivery
.
Traffic Wardens when at work are not exactly popular with many, but this will make even them likeable for a change
.
Together with toll collectors of Itchen Bridge they will hurt the Council where it really matters. If the Council had any sense it should be able to work out that solving the problem through negotiations in the long run makes more economic sense than its usual confrontational attitude
.
Good luck to union members involved in this action.

The bin-men have finally realised that they are being used by the Union. there is a claim in at the tribunal so pending the outcome there is no need to be on strike .
That claim could also have been put in weeks ago but the Unions delayed as long as possible why???

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
The unions have made a very clever move, to put bit of pressure upon arrogant council bosses
.
Refuse collectors working to rule will mean many bins still will not be collected, and will prove how under normal circumstances these important workers do more than their normal call of duty because the Council has not properly planned the service delivery
.
Traffic Wardens when at work are not exactly popular with many, but this will make even them likeable for a change
.
Together with toll collectors of Itchen Bridge they will hurt the Council where it really matters. If the Council had any sense it should be able to work out that solving the problem through negotiations in the long run makes more economic sense than its usual confrontational attitude
.
Good luck to union members involved in this action.

Having seen the bin men working to rule that normally means going as slow as possible

Datarater wrote:
They are on strike again so the weather must be warming up again.

How long do we have to suffer these trade union cuts in services?

More of a case how long do we need to suffer with this Council, and the rich man private club of greed

Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point.

As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

Any top grade weiders about 100 is needed for a shut down in wales

BMWDellboy wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

We have a plan it was put forward to the Council last year, and all it got was a few nods from a few Labour Councillors, and that was it, they did not even want to read it or even talk about it.
just not interested in any different plans.

Datarater wrote:
They are on strike again so the weather must be warming up again. How long do we have to suffer these trade union cuts in services?

Until Royston Smith grows up and starts the whole thing again, this time consulting the unions BEFORE giving out ultimations. Peoples livelihoods are paramount, that is to us ordinary folk anyway.

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point.

As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

Fm2 we don't see eye to eye but let me ask you this in the beginning of this dispute the unions agreed on pay cuts but didn't agree with a pay freeze & wanted guarantees after the 685 redundancies there would be no more .the pay freeze & the guaranty is where the unions & council couldn't agree with & this lead to this dispute so why has Mike Tucker been going on about pay cuts?
I would do a bin mans job I've done postman in all weather & I've delivered leaflets in all weather. if T.v's are left out either in or out of the bins they are & do just leave them as for the smell as long as the lids down the smell will only be really when the machine empties them. I didn't get my bin emptied as they were working to rule & didn't manage to get to my estate.If a bin man wants me to go out with him & see what he does (work with him) I would .

Keep going boys. Stay United you will win this dispute. Rambo Royston will crumble.

southy wrote:

BMWDellboy wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

We have a plan it was put forward to the Council last year, and all it got was a few nods from a few Labour Councillors, and that was it, they did not even want to read it or even talk about it.
just not interested in any different plans.

Southy, I'm genuinely interested to see alternatives - is the proposal available on-line anywhere?

This strike lost momentum when Cllr R Williams let the cat out of the bag and said that 1500 jobs would have to go. If there was no support from the local Labour party it's only now a face saving exercise for the increasingly useless Tucker. Will his members be financially compensated for the lost wages? I doubt it. This man has played politics with peoples jobs and thankfully people are seeing through it. Look at the people on strike, it's not the white collar staff in the Civic is it?

I really think these council workers should go back to work. The ought to be grateful they have a job. There are a lot of people out there who would be grateful for their job.

Did anyone else not have their rubbish collected for 9 weeks like me?

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

BMWDellboy wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

We have a plan it was put forward to the Council last year, and all it got was a few nods from a few Labour Councillors, and that was it, they did not even want to read it or even talk about it.
just not interested in any different plans.

Southy, I'm genuinely interested to see alternatives - is the proposal available on-line anywhere?

A TUSC and Socialist Party member in Porthsmouth has the alternative plan, Ben ??/ can't remember his surname at the moment, that same plan was put foreward to pompey council and got the same reception, it has been put foreward to other councils also.
But they are not interested because it would mean that the Public Service would stay in Public hands, they what to privatise all that belongs to the public, so the public will end up paying out a lot more.

loosehead wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point.

As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

Fm2 we don't see eye to eye but let me ask you this in the beginning of this dispute the unions agreed on pay cuts but didn't agree with a pay freeze & wanted guarantees after the 685 redundancies there would be no more .the pay freeze & the guaranty is where the unions & council couldn't agree with & this lead to this dispute so why has Mike Tucker been going on about pay cuts?
I would do a bin mans job I've done postman in all weather & I've delivered leaflets in all weather. if T.v's are left out either in or out of the bins they are & do just leave them as for the smell as long as the lids down the smell will only be really when the machine empties them. I didn't get my bin emptied as they were working to rule & didn't manage to get to my estate.If a bin man wants me to go out with him & see what he does (work with him) I would .

They can't move bins over a certain weight, if a big 'old style' TV is in a bin that would make it unmoveable. Think you'll find the smell permeates, my bessie mate's hubby works for Kent CC as a binman and she says he stinks when he gets home and works bloody hard, he's only just gone back to work after injuring his back at work (not sure what he did but it was genuine!). They also do other things like bulk collections, gritting etc don't forget. Put your money where your mouth is then and offer to go out with them. That's not to say I am in that position where I don't think anyone, whoever it is, postie, dustman etc shouldn't earn a decent living wage. We all know what's happened to the Postal Service when previously we had great service, two deliveries, and our Royal Mail was famous throughout the world... if you pay crap wages, you'll attract crap workers and workers who don't give a t*ss....

Wonder if that junket that Rambo and his pals went on to Spain ever 'informed' anything - to look at the Spanish rubbish system (forget which city it was Madrid I think)... the fact that we've all 'missed' them so much speaks volumes to me, but as you say we won't see eye to eye on why.....

townieboy wrote:
Keep going boys. Stay United you will win this dispute. Rambo Royston will crumble.

Agree townteboy

southy wrote:
"A TUSC and Socialist Party member in Porthsmouth has the alternative plan, Ben ??/ can't remember his surname at the moment, that same plan was put foreward to pompey council and got the same reception, it has been put foreward to other councils also.
But they are not interested because it would mean that the Public Service would stay in Public hands, they what to privatise all that belongs to the public, so the public will end up paying out a lot more."

Thanks for the response, but that doesn't really tell me anything about the TUSC stance on local government and if it has an understanding of finance.
.
"Public Service would stay in Public hands" That's great, but it's an ideological argument. I'm interested in looking at the numbers to see whether the plan is viable or not.
.
As a member of the public, I couldn't really care whether services are public or private - just whether that service is good, cost effective and if the local government can run at a sustainable level.

Shoong wrote:

freefinker wrote:
I see the council have solved a little local problem in my street.
The well used public bin outside next door had not been emptied for some while and like many others had been taped up with a "Not in use" notice.
Just got back from a weeks holiday to find it has gone - been removed, is no more.
Eventually this dispute will be resolved but this bin removal action is very short-sighted as the rubbish will now end up littering the street.
So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.

'So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.'

Can you please explain how it is in the best interest of the council or indeed anyone's to keep the streets dirty.

No, I can't.
You need to ask the council why they are removing waste bins - not me.

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

BMWDellboy wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

We have a plan it was put forward to the Council last year, and all it got was a few nods from a few Labour Councillors, and that was it, they did not even want to read it or even talk about it.
just not interested in any different plans.

Southy, I'm genuinely interested to see alternatives - is the proposal available on-line anywhere?

A TUSC and Socialist Party member in Porthsmouth has the alternative plan, Ben ??/ can't remember his surname at the moment, that same plan was put foreward to pompey council and got the same reception, it has been put foreward to other councils also.
But they are not interested because it would mean that the Public Service would stay in Public hands, they what to privatise all that belongs to the public, so the public will end up paying out a lot more.

Southy..... you state that no-one is interested in your / TUSC proposals..... have you ever considered that the real reason behind it is that it is unsustainable ????

freefinker wrote:

Shoong wrote:

freefinker wrote:
I see the council have solved a little local problem in my street.
The well used public bin outside next door had not been emptied for some while and like many others had been taped up with a "Not in use" notice.
Just got back from a weeks holiday to find it has gone - been removed, is no more.
Eventually this dispute will be resolved but this bin removal action is very short-sighted as the rubbish will now end up littering the street.
So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.

'So, no change there then - this council seems determined to keep our streets filthy.'

Can you please explain how it is in the best interest of the council or indeed anyone's to keep the streets dirty.

No, I can't.
You need to ask the council why they are removing waste bins - not me.

Oh dear.

southy wrote:

townieboy wrote:
Keep going boys. Stay United you will win this dispute. Rambo Royston will crumble.

Agree townteboy

It's pretty sad how personal this has got. Reminds me of the school playground.

I don't think many would disagree with the fact that public expenditure needs to be cut, otherwise we will be going the same way as Greece.
Instead of cutting the pay of low paid, essential public workers such as the refuse collectors, surely in a civilised, compassionate, society we should start at the other end of the social scale and cut the Civil List.
How many of us would feel the impact if the Queen, Philip, Prince Charles, Andrew, Edward, William and Harry, Princess Anne and all the other parasites were left to fend and pay for themselves --- less than one bin man going on strike!
Before the Royalists write in and say what a great job they do for the country and tourism.
Thousands flock to France, Italy, Egypt, China and the USA to name but a few, to view their culture and history.
Scrapping the Royal Family would not harm tourism one jot.
Penalising the porest in society whilst keeping these parasites in luxury is obscene!

bobbywestie wrote:
I really think these council workers should go back to work. The ought to be grateful they have a job. There are a lot of people out there who would be grateful for their job.

Did anyone else not have their rubbish collected for 9 weeks like me?

I have had one collection of my recyle bin since the dispute started and nothing else.
.
And i still support the strikers against bully boy Smith.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

bobbywestie wrote: I really think these council workers should go back to work. The ought to be grateful they have a job. There are a lot of people out there who would be grateful for their job. Did anyone else not have their rubbish collected for 9 weeks like me?

I have had one collection of my recyle bin since the dispute started and nothing else. . And i still support the strikers against bully boy Smith.

You would, seeing as you're the mouth piece of the local Labour party

cyber_fug wrote:

southy wrote:

MBHants wrote:

southy wrote:

BMWDellboy wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

So Southy, my old mate, if the TUSC controlled SCC how would you "balance the books" and and run a debt free council without any changes.

We have a plan it was put forward to the Council last year, and all it got was a few nods from a few Labour Councillors, and that was it, they did not even want to read it or even talk about it.
just not interested in any different plans.

Southy, I'm genuinely interested to see alternatives - is the proposal available on-line anywhere?

A TUSC and Socialist Party member in Porthsmouth has the alternative plan, Ben ??/ can't remember his surname at the moment, that same plan was put foreward to pompey council and got the same reception, it has been put foreward to other councils also.
But they are not interested because it would mean that the Public Service would stay in Public hands, they what to privatise all that belongs to the public, so the public will end up paying out a lot more.

Southy..... you state that no-one is interested in your / TUSC proposals..... have you ever considered that the real reason behind it is that it is unsustainable ????

No the real reason is that public services will stay in public hands and not be privatise.
Thats real reason Cyber, The Private sector wants more of the public money in there pockets, and we all know what happened when they privatise the water, the same will happen with public services whenit is privatise.
At the moment your paying about 90p per mth to have your bins emptied, but when its privatise you end up paying £23 per mth to get your bins emptied.

Condor Man wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

bobbywestie wrote: I really think these council workers should go back to work. The ought to be grateful they have a job. There are a lot of people out there who would be grateful for their job. Did anyone else not have their rubbish collected for 9 weeks like me?

I have had one collection of my recyle bin since the dispute started and nothing else. . And i still support the strikers against bully boy Smith.

You would, seeing as you're the mouth piece of the local Labour party

Yes at least i am a mouthpiece.
.
Better than you being a Codpiece

This is insane!

Street cleaners, parking wardens and toll collectors ought to be on minimum wage in the first place! What sort of lunatic pays a premium for those services?

I don't think bin-men, carers and the people critical to public health should be treated in the same way; their roles are critical; so their pay should reflect this! I also believe they should be disallowed from strike action and this shoulde paid for as part of their remuneration.

The trouble is we aren't valuing the jobs properly over valuing some and not treating the critical stuff appropriately.

I think this is why neither side can agree and I see this as damning of Royston Smith tenure.

southy wrote:

townieboy wrote: Keep going boys. Stay United you will win this dispute. Rambo Royston will crumble.

Agree townteboy

Fully support the above statements of total solidarity with union members.

.
It is sad fact that while happily accepting the cash donations from union members, which run into many millions, Labour Party that was created as political wing of trade union movement these days in its Conservatised form is stabbing workers in the back
.
Admittedly within the party there are some who still have kept their hearts in the right place, but hardly any of them is brave enough to openly speak against their main closet Tory leaders who have been condemning the industrial actions even when undertaken within the law
.
Most of them are playing double games, they tend to turn up at demonstrations for appearing good to union members, but then go in the Council meetings to vote with their leaders who have not only refused to support the strike but have also made it clear that if they get into power they will also make many workers redundant
.
Union members can promote their cause by:
a) Stop donating towards the political fund if it goes to the political party, which fails to fully support the cause of members.
b) Name and shame two faced Councillors and MPs who try riding union horses by turning up at demonstrations and also ride knackered right wing donkeys by supporting their anti unions leaders in Council meetings

loosehead wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote: Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about. saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year. That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control. Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line. Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point. As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

Fm2 we don't see eye to eye but let me ask you this in the beginning of this dispute the unions agreed on pay cuts but didn't agree with a pay freeze & wanted guarantees after the 685 redundancies there would be no more .the pay freeze & the guaranty is where the unions & council couldn't agree with & this lead to this dispute so why has Mike Tucker been going on about pay cuts? I would do a bin mans job I've done postman in all weather & I've delivered leaflets in all weather. if T.v's are left out either in or out of the bins they are & do just leave them as for the smell as long as the lids down the smell will only be really when the machine empties them. I didn't get my bin emptied as they were working to rule & didn't manage to get to my estate.If a bin man wants me to go out with him & see what he does (work with him) I would .

FMG2 simply raised the right and reasonable question
.
If you want to prove your strength and staying powers why are you asking her if any bin man wants you to go out and work with him?
.
FMG2 is only a contributor on this site, and good one for that matter, but not the Leader of the Council. So if you really want to prove your point why don't you contact Cllr. R.Smith and ask him to attach you with on of the crews for couple of months. I have no doubt the media's darling Smithy will also be able to get some media coverage for helping in promoting your ego. It could also be a good idea to get Royston Smith and Chief Executive doing the bin men’s jobs for few weeks, so that we can find out how long will they last especially on the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?

LR, was there really any need to stoop so low? it really isn't becoming.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?"
.
Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job.
.
P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote: Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about. saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year. That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control. Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line. Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point. As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

Fm2 we don't see eye to eye but let me ask you this in the beginning of this dispute the unions agreed on pay cuts but didn't agree with a pay freeze & wanted guarantees after the 685 redundancies there would be no more .the pay freeze & the guaranty is where the unions & council couldn't agree with & this lead to this dispute so why has Mike Tucker been going on about pay cuts? I would do a bin mans job I've done postman in all weather & I've delivered leaflets in all weather. if T.v's are left out either in or out of the bins they are & do just leave them as for the smell as long as the lids down the smell will only be really when the machine empties them. I didn't get my bin emptied as they were working to rule & didn't manage to get to my estate.If a bin man wants me to go out with him & see what he does (work with him) I would .

FMG2 simply raised the right and reasonable question
.
If you want to prove your strength and staying powers why are you asking her if any bin man wants you to go out and work with him?
.
FMG2 is only a contributor on this site, and good one for that matter, but not the Leader of the Council. So if you really want to prove your point why don't you contact Cllr. R.Smith and ask him to attach you with on of the crews for couple of months. I have no doubt the media's darling Smithy will also be able to get some media coverage for helping in promoting your ego. It could also be a good idea to get Royston Smith and Chief Executive doing the bin men’s jobs for few weeks, so that we can find out how long will they last especially on the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?

Parmit I don't rate ex Labour councillors so I don't know why I'm bothering replying to you but if you read Fm2's post she suggests that people try doing the binmans job & I've replied showing her the jobs I've done & to show her I'd be willing to go out with them/working with them so what's this about showing my strength? Also when did I ask her if any bin man wanted me I said if any bin man wanted me & there are plenty who read these posts so please get your facts right.I hope you do well in the TUSC.not in it? you should be as they talk rubbish as well

TEBOURBA wrote:
I don't think many would disagree with the fact that public expenditure needs to be cut, otherwise we will be going the same way as Greece.
Instead of cutting the pay of low paid, essential public workers such as the refuse collectors, surely in a civilised, compassionate, society we should start at the other end of the social scale and cut the Civil List.
How many of us would feel the impact if the Queen, Philip, Prince Charles, Andrew, Edward, William and Harry, Princess Anne and all the other parasites were left to fend and pay for themselves --- less than one bin man going on strike!
Before the Royalists write in and say what a great job they do for the country and tourism.
Thousands flock to France, Italy, Egypt, China and the USA to name but a few, to view their culture and history.
Scrapping the Royal Family would not harm tourism one jot.
Penalising the porest in society whilst keeping these parasites in luxury is obscene!

If you know any thing about exports you will find out that the royal warrant on your product means an awful lot to foreign customers.royals in America promoting British goods bring a hell of a lot of work to the UK.when the royal seal was removed from Cigarettes we lost a lot of orders so sorry pro or anti they do bring a lot of work/business into this country

Condor Man wrote:
LR, was there really any need to stoop so low? it really isn't becoming.

Dont dish it out if you cant take it back Condor

MBHants wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
"the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?"
.
Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job.
.
P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

Because they don't have an answer I'm afraid, it's all about 'someone's got more than me so let's put that right'.

MBHants wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: "the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?" . Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job. . P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

For your information I have expressed my views on the subject raised by you long time ago
.
I am not the one to deny that the local authorities have financial problems, which are real, BUT sadly they are not addressing the real cause of it, which are neither the workers nor the local citizens BUT the financial arrangements with central government
.
Local Authorities started having these problems when our government altered what used to be ‘Rate support grant’ (RSG) paid to Councils by the central government
.
Over many years the central government has made local Councils responsible for more and more, which means expenditure going up, not only share of resources provided by national government has kept on decreasing, but also by taking virtual control of business rates the national government has tightened the financial screw on local authorities
.
It is not about which political party controls the local council, because virtually all the councils are victims of this, what in my opinion is a crazy policy. But the problem is the financial relationship between local authorities and the central government
.
In my view the local authorities are barking up the wrong tree. They should neither be penalising the local tax payers with higher and higher Council Tax bills, nor victimising their front line workers. They should be getting together in demanding proper share of resources from central funds
.
Before you or anybody else start singing from same old hymn sheet that there is no money and we are all in it together, I do not share that view
.
If the money can be found to bail out the bankers, and billions can be given to the EU and failed economies of Euro Zone to which we do not even belong or billions can be found for bombing other countries surely if there is the will something can also be found to provide local council with funds so that they could deliver their services to the people and pay front line workers proper pay for their hard work.

Paramjit - To be honest I generally don't agree with your views, but thank you for giving a coherent explanation of how you see the situation! If not exactly a solution.
.
"Before you or anybody else start singing from same old hymn sheet"
Please don't start taring me with the same brush as others :-) That's not a phrase I have uttered or believe to be true.

Oops - misquoted in the last post:
"there is no money and we are all in it together"

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

MBHants wrote: Paramjit Bahia wrote: "the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?" . Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job. . P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

For your information I have expressed my views on the subject raised by you long time ago . I am not the one to deny that the local authorities have financial problems, which are real, BUT sadly they are not addressing the real cause of it, which are neither the workers nor the local citizens BUT the financial arrangements with central government . Local Authorities started having these problems when our government altered what used to be ‘Rate support grant’ (RSG) paid to Councils by the central government . Over many years the central government has made local Councils responsible for more and more, which means expenditure going up, not only share of resources provided by national government has kept on decreasing, but also by taking virtual control of business rates the national government has tightened the financial screw on local authorities . It is not about which political party controls the local council, because virtually all the councils are victims of this, what in my opinion is a crazy policy. But the problem is the financial relationship between local authorities and the central government . In my view the local authorities are barking up the wrong tree. They should neither be penalising the local tax payers with higher and higher Council Tax bills, nor victimising their front line workers. They should be getting together in demanding proper share of resources from central funds . Before you or anybody else start singing from same old hymn sheet that there is no money and we are all in it together, I do not share that view . If the money can be found to bail out the bankers, and billions can be given to the EU and failed economies of Euro Zone to which we do not even belong or billions can be found for bombing other countries surely if there is the will something can also be found to provide local council with funds so that they could deliver their services to the people and pay front line workers proper pay for their hard work.

...if there is the will something can also be found to provide local council with funds so that they could deliver their services to the people and pay front line workers proper pay for their hard work....

This is where there's a problem, you're idea of proper pay may be different from my idea of proper pay, e.g. I think this is an ideal time (albeit forced upon us) to look at public sector pay/pensions and bring it into line with the public sector.

In simple terms, I'm a customer of the Council, I want more value for my money so something's got to give. The Council can't get away with just increasing prices no longer.

....and I'm also waiting for news of the TUSC's ground breaking budget that delivers Utopia to all public sector employees.

It's all gone quiet over there...

owen_thesaints wrote:
....and I'm also waiting for news of the TUSC's ground breaking budget that delivers Utopia to all public sector employees.

It's all gone quiet over there...

you'll probably be dead before that arrives

Blimey. A refreshing mix of interesting conversations on here for a change, if only loosehead would hang back from posing so many questions in one post!

But NAUGHTY ECHO! You continue goading your audience by hinting to that rival paper in this dispute: reaching for the Socialist Worker placards photo yet again! YOU BAD OLD RAG!

Well, its the first time in weeks that some common sense has surfaced, now the bin men have voted against yet more strikes.

I wonder though, did they just get a choice between strike and work to rule, did they get an option to cease industrial action, and to cease these ridiculous legal claims which will just wast council money and result in more cuts or job losses in the long run?

The bin men are hopefully realising that they do not have public support, and that the public are wising up to the fact that certain unskilled workers are getting much higher pay in the public sector than than equivalent unskilled jobs in the private sector.

All the bin men have achieved is to highlight how well paid they actually are, and pointed out to all of us that if there are going to have to be more cuts, maybe more of these cuts should be coming in to bring pay and conditions in line with what equivalent private sector workers can expect to get.

The days of sweetheart pay deals between unions and councils should be at an end.

The council have a DUTY to spend the money they receive from council tax payers wisely.

I want to see more investment in projects that will create growth and tourism, such as the Tudor House, Guildhall Square, the Titanic Museum, and the Arts Quarter.

I want to see less money paid out in inappropriately high wages to staff.

Yes, lets do the appropriate notice and consultation, but is already looking like the cuts have been too shallow.

More can be cut, to help save more jobs, and to protect services.

I dont want to see services privatised, we should not need to outsource services in order to get value for money.

There needs to be a complete value for money review of all pay and conditions across the council.

Yes, cut more from those earning the most at the top, as is happening under the current plans, but across the board the cuts need to be deeper.

We just need to make sure that next time the cuts are made, the unions have absolutely no grounds for legal action.

Surely the law needs to be changed to make sure the unions are liable for the councils costs if they fail? I seem to remember that under current laws the unions get a free pop at the council, which doesnt seem fair.

I think it is shameful that any time there is change necessary to save money, there are people who seem to think that its a chance to get lawyers involved and dip their hands in council coffers for 90 days free pay.

I hope the council get the budget back under control, and really cut pay and conditions down to private sector levels, and do it in one go, with no messing around. After all, if the unions are going to kick off every time, there is no pont doing it piecemeal.

The unions have done their best to inconvenience residents, and disrupt noticeable services, whilst costing the council the most money possible, by only calling out certain workers, eg lower paid front line workers.

The work to rule maybe more of the same, the bin men get to work and get paid, while doing their best to go slow within the rules. The council have other wagons on standby, so they get to pay twice perhaps?

I am sure it must have irritated the unions that the council has been saving money while they are on strike so far....

My bins never got emptied today, they generally come before 9AM. This work to rule thing, must mean STOP WORK?

SpittingMoreFire wrote:
Blimey. A refreshing mix of interesting conversations on here for a change, if only loosehead would hang back from posing so many questions in one post!

But NAUGHTY ECHO! You continue goading your audience by hinting to that rival paper in this dispute: reaching for the Socialist Worker placards photo yet again! YOU BAD OLD RAG!

I notice that now some of the workers are standing up to the unions and voting against strikes, there has been much less prominence to the stories on the echo site.

The saturday echo carried the story, but it wasnt online

This story is now hard to find on the echo site, and what is the headline?

Is it "Bin Men Do Not Back More Strikes"

No it isnt.

Surely workers standing up to the union reps and voting down more strikes is something to be applauded?

It seems like the militants may now be on the back foot!

I hope a lot more of these workers see that the strikes are self defeating, and vote to stand down the unions, and call off strikes, working to rule, and the pointless legal action.

These cuts should have been gratefully accepted by the militants, as they are pretty slight compared to what could have been proposed!

hooray you came yesterday sunday (contractors) and today to do the same bins but why did you look inside first its rubbish and when is the recycle bin going to get done 10 weeks now plus the pile of recycle bin bags clear ones i have you so you can see in or do i have to go and do it for you all again remember we the tax payer are your employer not the council. thats the rant over hopefully you get a decent result from your claim.

IronLady2010 wrote:
My bins never got emptied today, they generally come before 9AM. This work to rule thing, must mean STOP WORK?

The rules need to be changed immediately! Clearly!

The rules should demand a decent work rate, and scrap any old deals the council have had with the unions which have been absorbed into terms and conditions (I would have hoped the new contracts have scrapped such things, but not sure)

If teams are not finishing their rounds, they should not, for example be able to go home until they have.

That would be a good rule.

No task and finish without the finish!

Time for the council to play hardball and sort out these rules once and for good to make sure a good job is done and the taxpayers get value for money.

I dont want workers being allowed to go slow and get paid. They can either get a move on, or they should be up on disciplinaries, and the "rules" should have enough scope to allow them to be sacked after a written warning.

bobbyboy wrote:
hooray you came yesterday sunday (contractors) and today to do the same bins but why did you look inside first its rubbish and when is the recycle bin going to get done 10 weeks now plus the pile of recycle bin bags clear ones i have you so you can see in or do i have to go and do it for you all again remember we the tax payer are your employer not the council. thats the rant over hopefully you get a decent result from your claim.

The last time the Council workers emptied our bins they emptied BOTH into the same truck, when I questioned them they said due to the backlog the recycling had become contaminated so were starting again by emptying everything.

Today, we haven't seen anything of them and I've been working from home all day so couldn't have missed them as you can hear them a mile away!

yes, stuff these work to rule shirkers...

I want to see the workers getting a chance to vote down working to rule, and vote in favour of doing an honest days work for their newly contracted rate of pay.

If they dont want the job at the new pay rate, they should do the honest thing and take a job somewhere else, not sign up to an agreement and sue the council for more than the value of the cuts.

How is that going to save money? Surely they realise that the council will still have to make up the deficit, and they will end up privatised or on yet lower pay deals to recover the costs of the legal fees, and many more friends and colleagues will be out of their jobs because of their selfish actions?

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:
yes, stuff these work to rule shirkers...

I want to see the workers getting a chance to vote down working to rule, and vote in favour of doing an honest days work for their newly contracted rate of pay.

If they dont want the job at the new pay rate, they should do the honest thing and take a job somewhere else, not sign up to an agreement and sue the council for more than the value of the cuts.

How is that going to save money? Surely they realise that the council will still have to make up the deficit, and they will end up privatised or on yet lower pay deals to recover the costs of the legal fees, and many more friends and colleagues will be out of their jobs because of their selfish actions?

They are standing up for the rest of the UK workers according to them. They had no answer when I questioned them about what effect it would have on Southampton residents. Two of them walked off and rested on bins down the road waiting for the driver to return to the cab.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:

townieboy wrote:
Keep going boys. Stay United you will win this dispute. Rambo Royston will crumble.

Agree townteboy

It's pretty sad how personal this has got. Reminds me of the school playground.

says the individual who had a laugh at the expense of the director of ABP Southampton.

http://www.thisisham
pshire.net/news/9148
046.Business_partner
ship_to_be_launched/

.

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:

SpittingMoreFire wrote:
Blimey. A refreshing mix of interesting conversations on here for a change, if only loosehead would hang back from posing so many questions in one post!

But NAUGHTY ECHO! You continue goading your audience by hinting to that rival paper in this dispute: reaching for the Socialist Worker placards photo yet again! YOU BAD OLD RAG!

I notice that now some of the workers are standing up to the unions and voting against strikes, there has been much less prominence to the stories on the echo site.

The saturday echo carried the story, but it wasnt online

This story is now hard to find on the echo site, and what is the headline?

Is it "Bin Men Do Not Back More Strikes"

No it isnt.

Surely workers standing up to the union reps and voting down more strikes is something to be applauded?

It seems like the militants may now be on the back foot!

I hope a lot more of these workers see that the strikes are self defeating, and vote to stand down the unions, and call off strikes, working to rule, and the pointless legal action.

These cuts should have been gratefully accepted by the militants, as they are pretty slight compared to what could have been proposed!

Echo carries a lot of stories in the paper that you will not find online. One of the reasons to buy the print edition.

For you suppose it is some sort of conspiracy that it is not featured online just illustrates your own distorted mindset. After all, doesn't this report carry the following:

“As revealed in Saturday’s Daily Echo Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead.“

On the day the new strikes start?

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:
Well, its the first time in weeks that some common sense has surfaced, now the bin men have voted against yet more strikes.

I wonder though, did they just get a choice between strike and work to rule, did they get an option to cease industrial action, and to cease these ridiculous legal claims which will just wast council money and result in more cuts or job losses in the long run?

The bin men are hopefully realising that they do not have public support, and that the public are wising up to the fact that certain unskilled workers are getting much higher pay in the public sector than than equivalent unskilled jobs in the private sector.

All the bin men have achieved is to highlight how well paid they actually are, and pointed out to all of us that if there are going to have to be more cuts, maybe more of these cuts should be coming in to bring pay and conditions in line with what equivalent private sector workers can expect to get.

The days of sweetheart pay deals between unions and councils should be at an end.

The council have a DUTY to spend the money they receive from council tax payers wisely.

I want to see more investment in projects that will create growth and tourism, such as the Tudor House, Guildhall Square, the Titanic Museum, and the Arts Quarter.

I want to see less money paid out in inappropriately high wages to staff.

Yes, lets do the appropriate notice and consultation, but is already looking like the cuts have been too shallow.

More can be cut, to help save more jobs, and to protect services.

I dont want to see services privatised, we should not need to outsource services in order to get value for money.

There needs to be a complete value for money review of all pay and conditions across the council.

Yes, cut more from those earning the most at the top, as is happening under the current plans, but across the board the cuts need to be deeper.

We just need to make sure that next time the cuts are made, the unions have absolutely no grounds for legal action.

Surely the law needs to be changed to make sure the unions are liable for the councils costs if they fail? I seem to remember that under current laws the unions get a free pop at the council, which doesnt seem fair.

I think it is shameful that any time there is change necessary to save money, there are people who seem to think that its a chance to get lawyers involved and dip their hands in council coffers for 90 days free pay.

I hope the council get the budget back under control, and really cut pay and conditions down to private sector levels, and do it in one go, with no messing around. After all, if the unions are going to kick off every time, there is no pont doing it piecemeal.

The unions have done their best to inconvenience residents, and disrupt noticeable services, whilst costing the council the most money possible, by only calling out certain workers, eg lower paid front line workers.

The work to rule maybe more of the same, the bin men get to work and get paid, while doing their best to go slow within the rules. The council have other wagons on standby, so they get to pay twice perhaps?

I am sure it must have irritated the unions that the council has been saving money while they are on strike so far....

Still, at least it gave you the whole weekend to pre-write this piece for us today...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

MBHants wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: "the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?" . Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job. . P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

For your information I have expressed my views on the subject raised by you long time ago
.
I am not the one to deny that the local authorities have financial problems, which are real, BUT sadly they are not addressing the real cause of it, which are neither the workers nor the local citizens BUT the financial arrangements with central government
.
Local Authorities started having these problems when our government altered what used to be ‘Rate support grant’ (RSG) paid to Councils by the central government
.
Over many years the central government has made local Councils responsible for more and more, which means expenditure going up, not only share of resources provided by national government has kept on decreasing, but also by taking virtual control of business rates the national government has tightened the financial screw on local authorities
.
It is not about which political party controls the local council, because virtually all the councils are victims of this, what in my opinion is a crazy policy. But the problem is the financial relationship between local authorities and the central government
.
In my view the local authorities are barking up the wrong tree. They should neither be penalising the local tax payers with higher and higher Council Tax bills, nor victimising their front line workers. They should be getting together in demanding proper share of resources from central funds
.
Before you or anybody else start singing from same old hymn sheet that there is no money and we are all in it together, I do not share that view
.
If the money can be found to bail out the bankers, and billions can be given to the EU and failed economies of Euro Zone to which we do not even belong or billions can be found for bombing other countries surely if there is the will something can also be found to provide local council with funds so that they could deliver their services to the people and pay front line workers proper pay for their hard work.

One of the biggest problems with challenging the Government is that, so oftern, the people that are running the Councils aspire to be an MP and therefore would not go against the party line.

This goes for ANY councillor regardless of which party they are aligned to.

cyber_fug wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

MBHants wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote: "the peanut wages they have the cheek to offer to these decent workers?" . Squeeze in a couple of economics books between your socialist pamphlets brother. Learn about supply and demand - that's why the wages are low. We have a large supply of people able and willing to do this job. . P.s. southy never answered, as the the other resident militant on here Paramjit, what would your solution for balancing the cuts with the deficit be?

For your information I have expressed my views on the subject raised by you long time ago
.
I am not the one to deny that the local authorities have financial problems, which are real, BUT sadly they are not addressing the real cause of it, which are neither the workers nor the local citizens BUT the financial arrangements with central government
.
Local Authorities started having these problems when our government altered what used to be ‘Rate support grant’ (RSG) paid to Councils by the central government
.
Over many years the central government has made local Councils responsible for more and more, which means expenditure going up, not only share of resources provided by national government has kept on decreasing, but also by taking virtual control of business rates the national government has tightened the financial screw on local authorities
.
It is not about which political party controls the local council, because virtually all the councils are victims of this, what in my opinion is a crazy policy. But the problem is the financial relationship between local authorities and the central government
.
In my view the local authorities are barking up the wrong tree. They should neither be penalising the local tax payers with higher and higher Council Tax bills, nor victimising their front line workers. They should be getting together in demanding proper share of resources from central funds
.
Before you or anybody else start singing from same old hymn sheet that there is no money and we are all in it together, I do not share that view
.
If the money can be found to bail out the bankers, and billions can be given to the EU and failed economies of Euro Zone to which we do not even belong or billions can be found for bombing other countries surely if there is the will something can also be found to provide local council with funds so that they could deliver their services to the people and pay front line workers proper pay for their hard work.

One of the biggest problems with challenging the Government is that, so oftern, the people that are running the Councils aspire to be an MP and therefore would not go against the party line.

This goes for ANY councillor regardless of which party they are aligned to.

Not true apparently. The TUSC are going to solve the worlds problems overnight! They will share the money from the rich with the poor, have you not heard?

so.... the penny finally dropped. The bin men realised they were being used by the union. The rich fat cat union leaders must be gutted.

I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I understand that the council, by law, is unable to draft in extra workers to clean up the mess that is left behind by striking workmen. However, why is it then, that the "Cash Cow" that is the Itchen Bridge is able to to be staffed during peak periods, but they are not allowing other workers to help clean up the city? Maybe the rhetorical answer is in the rhetorical question. I'm sure some clever arsed councillor armed with a plethora of non-meaning inconsequential statistics can come up with a total nonsensical answer and put me in my place, but the fact of the matter the council is, once again, putting themselves first, rather than the paying customer.
I'm on no side. Both sides need to get a grip of the situation and stop point scoring against each other and sort this mess out, if you don't......I'll get my dad to see your dad!!!!

I understand that the council, by law, is unable to draft in extra workers to clean up the mess that is left behind by striking workmen. However, why is it then, that the "Cash Cow" that is the Itchen Bridge is able to to be staffed during peak periods, but they are not allowing other workers to help clean up the city? Maybe the rhetorical answer is in the rhetorical question. I'm sure some clever arsed councillor armed with a plethora of non-meaning inconsequential statistics can come up with a total nonsensical answer and put me in my place, but the fact of the matter the council is, once again, putting themselves first, rather than the paying customer.
I'm on no side. Both sides need to get a grip of the situation and stop point scoring against each other and sort this mess out, if you don't......I'll get my dad to see your dad!!!!

well done to the binmen, they have gained a lot of credibility and I suspect they need the wages. It's a shame the Echo have not investigated the unions more closely and the pressure they've put on staff to strike. I suppose it would fit in with their anti-SCC stance.

IronLady2010 wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_

together wrote:
yes, stuff these work to rule shirkers...

I want to see the workers getting a chance to vote down working to rule, and vote in favour of doing an honest days work for their newly contracted rate of pay.

If they dont want the job at the new pay rate, they should do the honest thing and take a job somewhere else, not sign up to an agreement and sue the council for more than the value of the cuts.

How is that going to save money? Surely they realise that the council will still have to make up the deficit, and they will end up privatised or on yet lower pay deals to recover the costs of the legal fees, and many more friends and colleagues will be out of their jobs because of their selfish actions?

They are standing up for the rest of the UK workers according to them. They had no answer when I questioned them about what effect it would have on Southampton residents. Two of them walked off and rested on bins down the road waiting for the driver to return to the cab.

You certainly got off light there, what were you thinking about, these guys are upset enough without some old haridan (that's you in my minds eye!)giving them grief, lucky they don't bite.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_


together wrote:
yes, stuff these work to rule shirkers...

I want to see the workers getting a chance to vote down working to rule, and vote in favour of doing an honest days work for their newly contracted rate of pay.

If they dont want the job at the new pay rate, they should do the honest thing and take a job somewhere else, not sign up to an agreement and sue the council for more than the value of the cuts.

How is that going to save money? Surely they realise that the council will still have to make up the deficit, and they will end up privatised or on yet lower pay deals to recover the costs of the legal fees, and many more friends and colleagues will be out of their jobs because of their selfish actions?

They are standing up for the rest of the UK workers according to them. They had no answer when I questioned them about what effect it would have on Southampton residents. Two of them walked off and rested on bins down the road waiting for the driver to return to the cab.

You certainly got off light there, what were you thinking about, these guys are upset enough without some old haridan (that's you in my minds eye!)giving them grief, lucky they don't bite.

Why would they bite? I was only expressing my thoughts, I'm sure they're man enough to take it, maybe they listened to me and hence why they called off the strike action?

Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

IronLady2010 wrote:
Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

Also, remember my lovely Southy was the first one to confirm they WERE suspended. More untruths! Let's vote TUSC and be GUARANTEED lies!

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

loosehead wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Surely saying Mike Tucker saying we will ask for the pay cuts to be withdrawn is a pre-condition? Didn't the unions accept pay cuts but not pay freezes in the beginning? What would Mike Tucker like the council to do instead of pay cuts? Maybe more redundancies? It's okay for him to play up to the union members but what alternatives have the unions got to put to the council? Just remember a rise in council taxes is the same as a pay cut & it would hit all council workers no matter how much they earn.Why do I say it's the same as a pay cut? because it means paying out more & having less to spend & will effect those below £17,500 so the worst paid will be worse off unlike the pay cut scenario where the higher paid take the biggest cut isn't the way socialism is supposed to work? so why are the unions so against it?

No its not a pre-condition Loosehead, its what is going to be talk about.

saving of 400 jobs this year, but will be gone next year, but still 250 jobs will go this year, next year 650 jobs are to go, and another 650 jobs the following year.
That is going to happen if there's a Tory-con, Labour, Lib/dems, BNP, Southampton First, UKIP Council control.
Its only the TUSC that is trying to protect jobs in the Front line.
Making people Unemployed will not cure the Debt it only adds to it, and only moves the Debt from point A to point B.

Much as I am not a fan of Mr Tucker, Southy is right, asking is not the same as 'telling'..... they have to start from some point.

As for the person saying that the binmen go as slow as possible, perhaps you ought to join them one day, either in the boiling heat or freezing cold, getting beeped at by drivers when they're doing their job because they're being held up for 2 minutes..... plus the smell, people putting out stuff that they shouldn't in green bins (like heavy TVs). Come back when you've done a few rounds and let us know how you've got on! ;)

Fm2 we don't see eye to eye but let me ask you this in the beginning of this dispute the unions agreed on pay cuts but didn't agree with a pay freeze & wanted guarantees after the 685 redundancies there would be no more .the pay freeze & the guaranty is where the unions & council couldn't agree with & this lead to this dispute so why has Mike Tucker been going on about pay cuts?
I would do a bin mans job I've done postman in all weather & I've delivered leaflets in all weather. if T.v's are left out either in or out of the bins they are & do just leave them as for the smell as long as the lids down the smell will only be really when the machine empties them. I didn't get my bin emptied as they were working to rule & didn't manage to get to my estate.If a bin man wants me to go out with him & see what he does (work with him) I would .

They can't move bins over a certain weight, if a big 'old style' TV is in a bin that would make it unmoveable. Think you'll find the smell permeates, my bessie mate's hubby works for Kent CC as a binman and she says he stinks when he gets home and works bloody hard, he's only just gone back to work after injuring his back at work (not sure what he did but it was genuine!). They also do other things like bulk collections, gritting etc don't forget. Put your money where your mouth is then and offer to go out with them. That's not to say I am in that position where I don't think anyone, whoever it is, postie, dustman etc shouldn't earn a decent living wage. We all know what's happened to the Postal Service when previously we had great service, two deliveries, and our Royal Mail was famous throughout the world... if you pay crap wages, you'll attract crap workers and workers who don't give a t*ss....

Wonder if that junket that Rambo and his pals went on to Spain ever 'informed' anything - to look at the Spanish rubbish system (forget which city it was Madrid I think)... the fact that we've all 'missed' them so much speaks volumes to me, but as you say we won't see eye to eye on why.....

Fm2. The reason you don't have two deliveries is because they make the posties wait until 08.30 lorry to arrive & most days they're not allowed to leave until 10.00 some days 09.00 they have increased the round size to 800 houses & I've just been told that's going up in size again don't know what size the rounds are going to be.these people are extremely good at their jobs & can be done for non delivery of her majesties mail ( Royal mail) not the same as bin men at all

SpittingMoreFire wrote:
Blimey. A refreshing mix of interesting conversations on here for a change, if only loosehead would hang back from posing so many questions in one post!

But NAUGHTY ECHO! You continue goading your audience by hinting to that rival paper in this dispute: reaching for the Socialist Worker placards photo yet again! YOU BAD OLD RAG!

So what I write many posts? the questions I ask are in response to people who don't seem to take in what they read & bang on about the same point again & again no matter how many people & how many times it's answered.so sorry if the questions are the only way to get through to some people

IronLady2010 wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

Also, remember my lovely Southy was the first one to confirm they WERE suspended. More untruths! Let's vote TUSC and be GUARANTEED lies!

He also told you what they earned & he had 130,000 signatures.surely no one believed him did they?

Sorry Spittingfire here's another question does any one know how today's talks got on ?

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

Sotonians_lets_pull_



together wrote:
yes, stuff these work to rule shirkers...

I want to see the workers getting a chance to vote down working to rule, and vote in favour of doing an honest days work for their newly contracted rate of pay.

If they dont want the job at the new pay rate, they should do the honest thing and take a job somewhere else, not sign up to an agreement and sue the council for more than the value of the cuts.

How is that going to save money? Surely they realise that the council will still have to make up the deficit, and they will end up privatised or on yet lower pay deals to recover the costs of the legal fees, and many more friends and colleagues will be out of their jobs because of their selfish actions?

They are standing up for the rest of the UK workers according to them. They had no answer when I questioned them about what effect it would have on Southampton residents. Two of them walked off and rested on bins down the road waiting for the driver to return to the cab.

You certainly got off light there, what were you thinking about, these guys are upset enough without some old haridan (that's you in my minds eye!)giving them grief, lucky they don't bite.

Why would they bite? I was only expressing my thoughts, I'm sure they're man enough to take it, maybe they listened to me and hence why they called off the strike action?

Delusional I am afraid, we have all been saying the same thing in different ways, I just wouldn't like you to get hurt if any of the guys blew a fuse. That wouldn't help your cause and certainly would foul up theirs. I have little doubt they are just normal guys who get a bad press but these days there is always the odd maverick, nothing emphasises that more than the recent sad events in Norway.

loosehead wrote:
Sorry Spittingfire here's another question does any one know how today's talks got on ?

No, but here is what Southampton Unison posted last night on Twitter a day BEFORE more talks:

SotonUnison Southampton District
http://j.mp/qS3md1 Leaked budget reveals Southampton council's plans: More than quarter of its workforce face the sack


They want us to believe they want to talk? Both Royston and the Council have remained positive, but Unison decided to go and drag up old dirt before talking AGAIN!

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Sorry Spittingfire here's another question does any one know how today's talks got on ?

No, but here is what Southampton Unison posted last night on Twitter a day BEFORE more talks:

SotonUnison Southampton District
http://j.mp/qS3md1 Leaked budget reveals Southampton council's plans: More than quarter of its workforce face the sack


They want us to believe they want to talk? Both Royston and the Council have remained positive, but Unison decided to go and drag up old dirt before talking AGAIN!

IronLady they're now trying to scare the workers into towing the union line.when they lose the court case the workers will see for themselves that the union has been lying all this time

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

Several points here, the binmen don't make the mess, they clean it up, they don't need your sympathy, your support would be more useful, The others involved in the dispute are still on strike, it is not affecting you, so you don't pick on them do you? The binmen are part of the Union, so any fight against the Union is a fight against the binmen. Thank you for your permission for them to clean up their City, I am not sure that they actually needed it!

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

loosehead wrote:
Sorry Spittingfire here's another question does any one know how today's talks got on ?

No, but here is what Southampton Unison posted last night on Twitter a day BEFORE more talks:

SotonUnison Southampton District
http://j.mp/qS3md1 Leaked budget reveals Southampton council's plans: More than quarter of its workforce face the sack


They want us to believe they want to talk? Both Royston and the Council have remained positive, but Unison decided to go and drag up old dirt before talking AGAIN!

IronLady they're now trying to scare the workers into towing the union line.when they lose the court case the workers will see for themselves that the union has been lying all this time

Are you going to be the Judge LH? I know it is a bit tenuous but it is still if, not when, they lose. What are you going to say if, unlikely, but if they win the case on some sort of technicality?

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

Several points here, the binmen don't make the mess, they clean it up, they don't need your sympathy, your support would be more useful, The others involved in the dispute are still on strike, it is not affecting you, so you don't pick on them do you? The binmen are part of the Union, so any fight against the Union is a fight against the binmen. Thank you for your permission for them to clean up their City, I am not sure that they actually needed it!

Osprey if as people on this subject have been saying that people have been giving money to the unions for the strikers .what do you think that these people"s reaction's are going to be when the court case is lost & the truth comes out that the unions knew of the councils plans inside the legal time frame?I'm not anti bin men I just feel that these unions have used them & they are going to react quite badly against these unions when the truth comes out in court.I do feel sorry for them because they trusted the unions & must feel deeply betrayed & it's going to get worse.I hope this doesn't put me back into your Talabin!

loosehead wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

Several points here, the binmen don't make the mess, they clean it up, they don't need your sympathy, your support would be more useful, The others involved in the dispute are still on strike, it is not affecting you, so you don't pick on them do you? The binmen are part of the Union, so any fight against the Union is a fight against the binmen. Thank you for your permission for them to clean up their City, I am not sure that they actually needed it!

Osprey if as people on this subject have been saying that people have been giving money to the unions for the strikers .what do you think that these people"s reaction's are going to be when the court case is lost & the truth comes out that the unions knew of the councils plans inside the legal time frame?I'm not anti bin men I just feel that these unions have used them & they are going to react quite badly against these unions when the truth comes out in court.I do feel sorry for them because they trusted the unions & must feel deeply betrayed & it's going to get worse.I hope this doesn't put me back into your Talabin!

You are bordeline so be careful, but until the outcome is certain there are only opinions, which count for nowt.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

Several points here, the binmen don't make the mess, they clean it up, they don't need your sympathy, your support would be more useful, The others involved in the dispute are still on strike, it is not affecting you, so you don't pick on them do you? The binmen are part of the Union, so any fight against the Union is a fight against the binmen. Thank you for your permission for them to clean up their City, I am not sure that they actually needed it!

Of course the Bin Men created the mess. If they hadn't of striked in the first place (which has achieved nothing in their favour) we wouldn't have this mess.

How and why should I support the Bin Men, they are having a pay rise, paid for by me and you and every other Tax payer.

I welcome them back to work as I do the rest very soon.

If only the Unions would TRY and call EVERYONE out on strike so we can see their support!

IronLady2010 wrote:
Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

I think it may have been s-p-l-t who gloated about sacking and suspensions. Apart from an alleged suspension for not picking up Roystons bins, I cannot recall any definite information to that effect, just lots of misguided rhetoric. We just don't know the facts so it't pointless pontificating.

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
I take a day out and come home to find the "Talabin" running riot, and a few new members to add, well done, poor old binmen can't win can they? Wrong to strike, wrong not to strike! "Southampton’s bin men decided not to take strike action this time round, after a slim majority voted in favour of working to rule instead." That's a democratic vote in action, what don't you understand about that?

I happen to think the Bin Men should have some sympathy right now. They have made the right choice in not backing the strikes, but are still being blamed. On the other hand it is the Bin Men that created the mess, they didn't need to strike, it was their choice. Although, I feel we should lay off them now as they have given up and gone back to work.

The fight should be against the Unions, not the people who are dictated to by Gung Ho idiots.

Welcome back Bin Men, now can you clean up our City Thank you x.

Several points here, the binmen don't make the mess, they clean it up, they don't need your sympathy, your support would be more useful, The others involved in the dispute are still on strike, it is not affecting you, so you don't pick on them do you? The binmen are part of the Union, so any fight against the Union is a fight against the binmen. Thank you for your permission for them to clean up their City, I am not sure that they actually needed it!

Of course the Bin Men created the mess. If they hadn't of striked in the first place (which has achieved nothing in their favour) we wouldn't have this mess.

How and why should I support the Bin Men, they are having a pay rise, paid for by me and you and every other Tax payer.

I welcome them back to work as I do the rest very soon.

If only the Unions would TRY and call EVERYONE out on strike so we can see their support!

striked? Good night too many typo's creeping in, it's been a long day and there is nothing new here.

To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

IronLady2010 wrote:
To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

We are all doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! Give it a rest old rusty bottom, you are doing my loosehead in.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

I think it may have been s-p-l-t who gloated about sacking and suspensions. Apart from an alleged suspension for not picking up Roystons bins, I cannot recall any definite information to that effect, just lots of misguided rhetoric. We just don't know the facts so it't pointless pontificating.

You are wrong ;-)

Although I am unable to confirm where it came from, one thing I don't do is lie!

ONE round was involved, so not all Bin Men were involved, although it did include Roystons area.

My point was, how low can the Unions go to make their point?

I'll let you decide!

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

We are all doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! Give it a rest old rusty bottom, you are doing my loosehead in.

Stop reading then, no-one is forcing you, much like no-one forces me to post.

Go give your wife a hug or something?

So far, Unless we have any new updates, the Council workers have lost out on a better deal of no cuts until £22,000.

The Unions butted in and they are now cut from £17,500!!

These members have paid over a tenner a month for the Unions to cut their wages!

No wonder Bin Men have given up on the Unions (or have they ;-) )

I still wonder why Southampton Unison post the following A DAY BEFORE more talks, why make such a post when you are in talks? I thought they'd been gagged by the bosses as they've been quiet for a while or maybe they went on holiday (sore subject)....

SotonUnison Southampton District
http://j.mp/qS3md1 Leaked budget reveals Southampton council's plans: More than quarter of its workforce face the sack

Just for the record, no posts from Southampton Unison from 7th July to 24th July on Twitter, did they go on holiday mid strike? Surely they wouldn't?

IronLady2010 wrote:
So far, Unless we have any new updates, the Council workers have lost out on a better deal of no cuts until £22,000.

The Unions butted in and they are now cut from £17,500!!

These members have paid over a tenner a month for the Unions to cut their wages!

No wonder Bin Men have given up on the Unions (or have they ;-) )

Just a way of restarting the clock on the twelve week period you think?

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Anyone remember last week a Council worker stating Bin Men had been suspended. Well, the truth is they were NOT suspended but spoken to regarding posting Union leaflets through peoples doors whilst working for the Council on their rounds!

Seems the Unions will stop at nothing!

I think it may have been s-p-l-t who gloated about sacking and suspensions. Apart from an alleged suspension for not picking up Roystons bins, I cannot recall any definite information to that effect, just lots of misguided rhetoric. We just don't know the facts so it't pointless pontificating.

No, I knew nothing about it.

If there are bin min who get rightfully sacked right now, I cant say I would shed a tear, but I do think they have been used by the unions.

Can the bin men remember HOW to work? It seems like they've been on strike so long they're likely to have forgotten what their job was all about - oh, I remember, public service .............. !

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

We are all doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! Give it a rest old rusty bottom, you are doing my loosehead in.

Stop reading then, no-one is forcing you, much like no-one forces me to post.

Go give your wife a hug or something?

Wife? You obiously have not been paying attention! Ok I will stop reading as ordered, I will concentrate on the football, much more interesting, see you...... Oh and Poppy 22, welcome to the "Talabin", the real thing know all about poppies, in your case you are the dope. Hopefully plenty of lefties to carry on my crusade, just a pity I am not allowed to read about it, TA TA.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

We are all doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! Give it a rest old rusty bottom, you are doing my loosehead in.

Stop reading then, no-one is forcing you, much like no-one forces me to post.

Go give your wife a hug or something?

Wife? You obiously have not been paying attention! Ok I will stop reading as ordered, I will concentrate on the football, much more interesting, see you...... Oh and Poppy 22, welcome to the "Talabin", the real thing know all about poppies, in your case you are the dope. Hopefully plenty of lefties to carry on my crusade, just a pity I am not allowed to read about it, TA TA.

No wife? partner,boyfriend? it's your choice or happily single? I don't mind your comments (most) so read on

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN.

Get ready for more strike action from Bin Men!!!!!!!!!!

It is coming again soon, the Unions are playing clever (or trying to).

Mark my words!

We are all doomed Mr Mainwaring, doomed I tell ye! Give it a rest old rusty bottom, you are doing my loosehead in.

Stop reading then, no-one is forcing you, much like no-one forces me to post.

Go give your wife a hug or something?

Wife? You obiously have not been paying attention! Ok I will stop reading as ordered, I will concentrate on the football, much more interesting, see you...... Oh and Poppy 22, welcome to the "Talabin", the real thing know all about poppies, in your case you are the dope. Hopefully plenty of lefties to carry on my crusade, just a pity I am not allowed to read about it, TA TA.

Now you're throwing your dummy, visit the Unison website and join up, you'll feel at home then ;-) x

I guess you're a fixin' to sign your contracts then huh ;)

If the bin men have been on strike for 6 weeks thats about 11% loss of pay excluding strike pay, i bet its less fun now going on strike.
remember miners, printers.you reap what you sow. soon you will be contracted out

If the bin men have been on strike for 6 weeks thats about 11% loss of pay excluding strike pay, i bet its less fun now going on strike.
remember miners, printers.you reap what you sow. soon you will be contracted out

i seam to be repeating myself ?

"Selfish council workers on strike again! Take the pay reduction of 2.5%-5% or face redundancies, you guys dont know how lucky you are with your working conditions in the public sector. I'd certainly swop jobs!"

So why did you choose to work in the private sector over the public sector if your conditions are so bad and you'd willingly "swop jobs"?

Aren't you very good with applications or couldn't you find the council's job section?

"To be honest, I somehow feel we are being fooled AGAIN..."

Reading your posts I feel you are in a constant state of being fooled, by the simple workings of the world around you.

What is it with these right wingers and personal insults?! Are they displacing rational argument because they don't have any?

I'd have a guess that these are the same people that bang on about British jobs for British workers when the subject of immigration rears it's ugly head yet at every opportunity to support British workers in British jobs they fall by the wayside.

"i seam to be repeating myself ?"

And your awful grammar and spelling.