Unions vote to reject Southampton City Council pay proposals

Daily Echo: Southampton strikes to continue Southampton strikes to continue

SOUTHAMPTON council strikes are set to rumble on after union members voted overwhelmingly to reject the authority's latest proposals on pay cuts.

Almost 600 members of Unite and Unison voted by a majority of four to one to continue their industrial action over moves by the ruling Tories to ease budget pressures by cutting workers' wages by up to 5.5 per cent.

The long-running dispute, which has crippled some services as bin men, street cleaners, social workers, traffic wardens and other workers all down tools, is now set to enter its 13th week.

Today's vote came after a potential breakthrough package of proposals was negotiated by union and council leaders, which it had been hoped could have seen strikes suspended while details were hammered out.

Full reaction in Thursday's Daily Echo

Comments (113)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

says...

says...

says...

2:58pm Wed 10 Aug 11

waltons11 says...

Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!! waltons11

2:59pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

How disappointing.



How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them?

Why should residents have to put up with this?

If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

3:01pm Wed 10 Aug 11

eddieh says...

These workers shouldn't be striking over pay, they should be fortunate they still have a job.
These workers shouldn't be striking over pay, they should be fortunate they still have a job. eddieh

3:02pm Wed 10 Aug 11

rich the stitch says...

Mmmm, think the good weather could have had something to do with this. "sod going back to work, it's sunny"
Why do you not understand, you do a minimal wage job and get paid very well for it and get a good pension out of it.....and you’re still not happy. There is no money left in the pot. It's not your fault, it's not my fault but unless you can bend over and pull a couple of £trillion out of your lazy backsides then we all have to suffer, public and private sectors alike.
Mmmm, think the good weather could have had something to do with this. "sod going back to work, it's sunny" Why do you not understand, you do a minimal wage job and get paid very well for it and get a good pension out of it.....and you’re still not happy. There is no money left in the pot. It's not your fault, it's not my fault but unless you can bend over and pull a couple of £trillion out of your lazy backsides then we all have to suffer, public and private sectors alike. rich the stitch

3:07pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Rhombus says...

Just how long CAN a group of people strike for before they are replaced? This isn't a dig , I really don't know the answer. If they disagree indefinitely with the councils proposals that is.
Just how long CAN a group of people strike for before they are replaced? This isn't a dig , I really don't know the answer. If they disagree indefinitely with the councils proposals that is. Rhombus

3:12pm Wed 10 Aug 11

dave1958 says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
Funny how either a member of Roystons press team, or a member or ex member of the Conservative group can be the second person to put a posting on here.

If the council had not done what they did in the first place then there would not be the current situation. All it took was for Royston to arrange a meeting and talk to the union officers, to start with. Was that such a terrible thing to do, or was it part of the conservatives Groups master plan to out source all of the services, and the council not to be responsible for anything. Which was the words I believe of the Tory leader when they took power. Inother words Royston wants to become Teflon coasted so nothing sticks to him.
But the one thing he can be assured of is that the way he has handled this dispute will stick to him, just like the perverbal sticks to a blanket. Plus I dont see Royston ever becoming a Member of Parliament, or getting a knighthood for services to local government now.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]Funny how either a member of Roystons press team, or a member or ex member of the Conservative group can be the second person to put a posting on here. If the council had not done what they did in the first place then there would not be the current situation. All it took was for Royston to arrange a meeting and talk to the union officers, to start with. Was that such a terrible thing to do, or was it part of the conservatives Groups master plan to out source all of the services, and the council not to be responsible for anything. Which was the words I believe of the Tory leader when they took power. Inother words Royston wants to become Teflon coasted so nothing sticks to him. But the one thing he can be assured of is that the way he has handled this dispute will stick to him, just like the perverbal sticks to a blanket. Plus I dont see Royston ever becoming a Member of Parliament, or getting a knighthood for services to local government now. dave1958

3:13pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MBHants says...

I've just got back from a few days away and was dismayed to see the devastation in Bedford place and London road caused by the rioting and looting...
.
What's that?
No riots in Southampton?
Still striking public workers?
Unions still chest beating and leading workers to their doom?
Southy and co still posting ramblings on here that could be straight from 1982?
.
Oh dear what a joke you've all turned this city into - time to start looking at moving and taking my business elsewhere, Somalia is looking like a cleaner and more civilised option.
I've just got back from a few days away and was dismayed to see the devastation in Bedford place and London road caused by the rioting and looting... . What's that? No riots in Southampton? Still striking public workers? Unions still chest beating and leading workers to their doom? Southy and co still posting ramblings on here that could be straight from 1982? . Oh dear what a joke you've all turned this city into - time to start looking at moving and taking my business elsewhere, Somalia is looking like a cleaner and more civilised option. MBHants

3:16pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Rhombus,

12 weeks I believe, which according to recent reports in the echo is up soon:

"Residents associations across the city have demanded an end to the bitter industrial dispute over pay cuts – now in its 12th week."

"pressure is mounting as legal protection from dismissal for striking workers will run out at the start of next week. "


http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/9185054.
Unions_postpone_lega
l_claim_as_strike_ta
lks_progress/


Residents you would have thought can legitimately start to expect decisive action from the council, once the council have the legal power to dismiss the strikers with impunity?


"New Labour's Employment Relations Act 1999, made it unfair to dismiss an employee (though not a worker) for taking lawful industrial action within a "protected period" of eight weeks - increased to 12 weeks in 2004.

After 12 weeks however, striking workers can be dismissed with impunity. Even within the 12 weeks workers are not protected against action short of dismissal, for example demotion. Neither can courts compel employers to reinstate wrongfully dismissed employees."

http://www.socialist
party.org.uk/article
s/12178
Rhombus, 12 weeks I believe, which according to recent reports in the echo is up soon: "Residents associations across the city have demanded an end to the bitter industrial dispute over pay cuts – now in its 12th week." "pressure is mounting as legal protection from dismissal for striking workers will run out at the start of next week. " http://www.dailyecho .co.uk/news/9185054. Unions_postpone_lega l_claim_as_strike_ta lks_progress/ Residents you would have thought can legitimately start to expect decisive action from the council, once the council have the legal power to dismiss the strikers with impunity? "New Labour's Employment Relations Act 1999, made it unfair to dismiss an employee (though not a worker) for taking lawful industrial action within a "protected period" of eight weeks - increased to 12 weeks in 2004. After 12 weeks however, striking workers can be dismissed with impunity. Even within the 12 weeks workers are not protected against action short of dismissal, for example demotion. Neither can courts compel employers to reinstate wrongfully dismissed employees." http://www.socialist party.org.uk/article s/12178 Sotonians_lets_pull_together

3:23pm Wed 10 Aug 11

George4th says...

So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey!
>
My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?!
So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?! George4th

3:25pm Wed 10 Aug 11

StEmmosfire says...

What a great example they are setting. Especially in the current climate of lawless rioting.
What a great example they are setting. Especially in the current climate of lawless rioting. StEmmosfire

3:26pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Rhombus says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Rhombus,

12 weeks I believe, which according to recent reports in the echo is up soon:

"Residents associations across the city have demanded an end to the bitter industrial dispute over pay cuts – now in its 12th week."

"pressure is mounting as legal protection from dismissal for striking workers will run out at the start of next week. "


http://www.dailyecho

.co.uk/news/9185054.

Unions_postpone_lega

l_claim_as_strike_ta

lks_progress/


Residents you would have thought can legitimately start to expect decisive action from the council, once the council have the legal power to dismiss the strikers with impunity?


"New Labour's Employment Relations Act 1999, made it unfair to dismiss an employee (though not a worker) for taking lawful industrial action within a "protected period" of eight weeks - increased to 12 weeks in 2004.

After 12 weeks however, striking workers can be dismissed with impunity. Even within the 12 weeks workers are not protected against action short of dismissal, for example demotion. Neither can courts compel employers to reinstate wrongfully dismissed employees."

http://www.socialist

party.org.uk/article

s/12178
shall I send in a CV then ;)
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Rhombus, 12 weeks I believe, which according to recent reports in the echo is up soon: "Residents associations across the city have demanded an end to the bitter industrial dispute over pay cuts – now in its 12th week." "pressure is mounting as legal protection from dismissal for striking workers will run out at the start of next week. " http://www.dailyecho .co.uk/news/9185054. Unions_postpone_lega l_claim_as_strike_ta lks_progress/ Residents you would have thought can legitimately start to expect decisive action from the council, once the council have the legal power to dismiss the strikers with impunity? "New Labour's Employment Relations Act 1999, made it unfair to dismiss an employee (though not a worker) for taking lawful industrial action within a "protected period" of eight weeks - increased to 12 weeks in 2004. After 12 weeks however, striking workers can be dismissed with impunity. Even within the 12 weeks workers are not protected against action short of dismissal, for example demotion. Neither can courts compel employers to reinstate wrongfully dismissed employees." http://www.socialist party.org.uk/article s/12178[/p][/quote]shall I send in a CV then ;) Rhombus

3:28pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MGRA says...

Hey, where is Southy !?!? what has happened to your "victory" eh Southy !!!???
You are going to have break your previous record on thinking to work out what a scupper this is for you and your deluted puppets.....
classic.... go for it , lay on me the classic line "its the will of the workers" LOL !!!
queue childish responses from the usual suspects :
Hey, where is Southy !?!? what has happened to your "victory" eh Southy !!!??? You are going to have break your previous record on thinking to work out what a scupper this is for you and your deluted puppets..... classic.... go for it , lay on me the classic line "its the will of the workers" LOL !!! queue childish responses from the usual suspects : MGRA

3:29pm Wed 10 Aug 11

lemsip says...

Summer of disruption
When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's?
Need i say more?
Summer of disruption When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's? Need i say more? lemsip

3:29pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Northam Lady says...

We don't need riots in Southampton - the place looks and smells like a tip already. I was under the impression they could be sacked at the end of this week? Will the Council have the guts to do it and try getting this place back to some sense of normality. Goodness knows what tourists think of it, especially those going to visit Cowes week. Appropriate words "boat-news". Utterly disgraceful and very, very depressing.
We don't need riots in Southampton - the place looks and smells like a tip already. I was under the impression they could be sacked at the end of this week? Will the Council have the guts to do it and try getting this place back to some sense of normality. Goodness knows what tourists think of it, especially those going to visit Cowes week. Appropriate words "boat-news". Utterly disgraceful and very, very depressing. Northam Lady

3:30pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Shoong says...

Ooops, talk about painting yourself into a corner.
Ooops, talk about painting yourself into a corner. Shoong

3:30pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Well the council have improved the offer to the unions a number of times. Which is more than the council really should have done for the workers, considering the scale of cuts necessary. As a resident, I feel the council have gone above and beyond in their desire to see a negotiated settlement.

This latest rejection has now got beyond a joke, time to dismiss all those who engage in any form of industrial action once the legally protected 12 week period expires.

This will not be redundancy, but dismissal, due to a breakdown in the working relationship, so I assume no payouts for any workers dismissed in this way?

I can foresee the residents who have been fed up with the strikes calling for the council to take decisive action on this
Well the council have improved the offer to the unions a number of times. Which is more than the council really should have done for the workers, considering the scale of cuts necessary. As a resident, I feel the council have gone above and beyond in their desire to see a negotiated settlement. This latest rejection has now got beyond a joke, time to dismiss all those who engage in any form of industrial action once the legally protected 12 week period expires. This will not be redundancy, but dismissal, due to a breakdown in the working relationship, so I assume no payouts for any workers dismissed in this way? I can foresee the residents who have been fed up with the strikes calling for the council to take decisive action on this Sotonians_lets_pull_together

3:32pm Wed 10 Aug 11

George4th says...

lemsip wrote:
Summer of disruption
When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's?
Need i say more?
Give it a rest. If you want to find the roots of it, go back to the 60s.
[quote][p][bold]lemsip[/bold] wrote: Summer of disruption When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's? Need i say more?[/p][/quote]Give it a rest. If you want to find the roots of it, go back to the 60s. George4th

3:32pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MBHants says...

lemsip wrote:
Summer of disruption
When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's?
Need i say more?
A party that was in fixing the mistakes of the previous administration?

A party focused on growth, progress and the future rather than maintaining the status quo?

Need I say more?

(Not saying I'm right, but you can spin this either way :-)
[quote][p][bold]lemsip[/bold] wrote: Summer of disruption When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's? Need i say more?[/p][/quote]A party that was in fixing the mistakes of the previous administration? A party focused on growth, progress and the future rather than maintaining the status quo? Need I say more? (Not saying I'm right, but you can spin this either way :-) MBHants

3:37pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Whitters says...

Do Southampton have enough people on the jobless lists who are prepared to replace any soon-to-be-sacked workers though?

As an interim, attach trailers to the back of buses and encourage residents to throw their rubbish in them and have a smaller team of stall emptying the trailers at strategic locations and onto lorries to the dump.

Then attach street cleaning equipment to buses to clean the roads instead of the road sweepers.

Then use the saved funds from the staff to pay for buses to run in the evenings again.....

(Yes - I am joking)
Do Southampton have enough people on the jobless lists who are prepared to replace any soon-to-be-sacked workers though? As an interim, attach trailers to the back of buses and encourage residents to throw their rubbish in them and have a smaller team of stall emptying the trailers at strategic locations and onto lorries to the dump. Then attach street cleaning equipment to buses to clean the roads instead of the road sweepers. Then use the saved funds from the staff to pay for buses to run in the evenings again..... (Yes - I am joking) Whitters

3:40pm Wed 10 Aug 11

youbadneighbour says...

In the past 13 weeks I have been to the dump 4 or 5 times to get rid of my rubbish and am now starting to believe that we don't really need the bin men. Or at least very few of them.

Can I have my tax back now please.
In the past 13 weeks I have been to the dump 4 or 5 times to get rid of my rubbish and am now starting to believe that we don't really need the bin men. Or at least very few of them. Can I have my tax back now please. youbadneighbour

3:44pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Dusty says...

waltons11 wrote:
Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
[quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange. Dusty

3:44pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Elgy says...

So youths are rioting because of a lack of jobs, hope, prospects, education and discipline, while those lucky enough to be in work choose to display extreme greed in the country's hour of need by striking. Nice one.
So youths are rioting because of a lack of jobs, hope, prospects, education and discipline, while those lucky enough to be in work choose to display extreme greed in the country's hour of need by striking. Nice one. Elgy

3:45pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MGRA says...

I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa
I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa MGRA

3:46pm Wed 10 Aug 11

edwardo24 says...

Sack 'em - sick of it !!! The city is a pigsty.....
Sack 'em - sick of it !!! The city is a pigsty..... edwardo24

3:49pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Bitternegirl says...

I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs.

Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to.

My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said.

In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax.
I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs. Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to. My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said. In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax. Bitternegirl

3:53pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MGRA says...

Dusty wrote:
waltons11 wrote:
Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.[/p][/quote]so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both. MGRA

3:57pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Bitternegirl.

As a resident, I feel it is better to have the pay cuts, and reduce job losses

This means

(1) Less redundancy payouts

(2) Less impact on frontline services (level of workforce is maintained at a higher level)

(3) Less people claiming benefits

(4) Pay will be brought more in line with pay rates in the private sector for equivalent job roles

(5) Its fairer for everyone to take a bit of a cut, than to make redundant more people than actually necessary.

(6) More people staying in work in the counil means that job opportunities can go to those currently out of work

Its the fairest way of doing it, and helps to maintian services
Bitternegirl. As a resident, I feel it is better to have the pay cuts, and reduce job losses This means (1) Less redundancy payouts (2) Less impact on frontline services (level of workforce is maintained at a higher level) (3) Less people claiming benefits (4) Pay will be brought more in line with pay rates in the private sector for equivalent job roles (5) Its fairer for everyone to take a bit of a cut, than to make redundant more people than actually necessary. (6) More people staying in work in the counil means that job opportunities can go to those currently out of work Its the fairest way of doing it, and helps to maintian services Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:01pm Wed 10 Aug 11

waltons11 says...

MGRA wrote:
Dusty wrote:
waltons11 wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.
Yes I do - I have accepted the cut, it has made a difference to me of £100.00 per month, very hard to bear, but needs must. We all have to tie our belts in and get on with it now!!
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.[/p][/quote]so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.[/p][/quote]Yes I do - I have accepted the cut, it has made a difference to me of £100.00 per month, very hard to bear, but needs must. We all have to tie our belts in and get on with it now!! waltons11

4:08pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

It's also odd. Its not as if the unions seem to have voted down a specific pay deal.

Their members seem to me (Unison and Unite) to have voted down proposals from the unions to enter into negotiations for a settlement.

As per Unison:

"The UNISON / Unite membership meeting tomorrow lunch-time at 12.30 p.m. in Above Bar Church will have to decide between two alternative ways forward. In broad terms these are:

1. To enter into detailed discussions on the Conservatives revised proposals for the next 2 weeks. To suspend industrial action while these talks are held. To then put the final proposals to a postal ballot to be held in early September.

2. To reject the Council’s proposals and to continue with the strike action."

The first proposal seems to be suggesting a period of negotiation with a balloted solution.

Surely this is simply more evidence that the unions dont want to or havent got a mandate to negotiate, which must I would have thought weaken their position when it comes to whether they have been prepared to negotiate.
It's also odd. Its not as if the unions seem to have voted down a specific pay deal. Their members seem to me (Unison and Unite) to have voted down proposals from the unions to enter into negotiations for a settlement. As per Unison: "The UNISON / Unite membership meeting tomorrow lunch-time at 12.30 p.m. in Above Bar Church will have to decide between two alternative ways forward. In broad terms these are: 1. To enter into detailed discussions on the Conservatives revised proposals for the next 2 weeks. To suspend industrial action while these talks are held. To then put the final proposals to a postal ballot to be held in early September. 2. To reject the Council’s proposals and to continue with the strike action." The first proposal seems to be suggesting a period of negotiation with a balloted solution. Surely this is simply more evidence that the unions dont want to or havent got a mandate to negotiate, which must I would have thought weaken their position when it comes to whether they have been prepared to negotiate. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:10pm Wed 10 Aug 11

lemsip says...

MBHants wrote:
lemsip wrote:
Summer of disruption
When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's?
Need i say more?
A party that was in fixing the mistakes of the previous administration?

A party focused on growth, progress and the future rather than maintaining the status quo?

Need I say more?

(Not saying I'm right, but you can spin this either way :-)
You are quite possibly right, Labour are too free with spending Torys then make cut backs to compensate.
I agree that stuff that happened in the 80's followed a labour government in the 70's. And now we have a repeat.
The Labour party will win power back, be it in a couple of years or ten years and then the tories get power back we will be in same situation now.
Ones to generous and ones to tight....we need a party that can be sensible with tax payers cash....vote LEMSIP
[quote][p][bold]MBHants[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lemsip[/bold] wrote: Summer of disruption When was the last time we had mass strikes, riots, split opinions to the scale of what is happening now and a bleak future of more strikes and riots???........the 1980's, and who was in power in the 80's? Need i say more?[/p][/quote]A party that was in fixing the mistakes of the previous administration? A party focused on growth, progress and the future rather than maintaining the status quo? Need I say more? (Not saying I'm right, but you can spin this either way :-)[/p][/quote]You are quite possibly right, Labour are too free with spending Torys then make cut backs to compensate. I agree that stuff that happened in the 80's followed a labour government in the 70's. And now we have a repeat. The Labour party will win power back, be it in a couple of years or ten years and then the tories get power back we will be in same situation now. Ones to generous and ones to tight....we need a party that can be sensible with tax payers cash....vote LEMSIP lemsip

4:11pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

waltons11 wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Dusty wrote:
waltons11 wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.
Yes I do - I have accepted the cut, it has made a difference to me of £100.00 per month, very hard to bear, but needs must. We all have to tie our belts in and get on with it now!!
well said waltons11
[quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.[/p][/quote]so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.[/p][/quote]Yes I do - I have accepted the cut, it has made a difference to me of £100.00 per month, very hard to bear, but needs must. We all have to tie our belts in and get on with it now!![/p][/quote]well said waltons11 Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:13pm Wed 10 Aug 11

smallone says...

So 480 unions members voted to continue with the strike action when 4800 employees have had their pay cut.

By my reckoning 90% of employees have therefore accepted the cuts and are continuing to work wihout any fuss because they value their jobs!

Why not sack the 480 strikers and redistribute their pay to the 4320 who are working harder to deliver services as best they can while their unionised colleagues are out enjoying the sunshine?
So 480 unions members voted to continue with the strike action when 4800 employees have had their pay cut. By my reckoning 90% of employees have therefore accepted the cuts and are continuing to work wihout any fuss because they value their jobs! Why not sack the 480 strikers and redistribute their pay to the 4320 who are working harder to deliver services as best they can while their unionised colleagues are out enjoying the sunshine? smallone

4:15pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Norwegian Saint says...

Agreed with the strikers for the first week or two... not anymore, lost any sympathy for them.
Rats, mice, smelly bins, etc...
We'll start to look and smell like Poopey!
Come on guys and girls, you made your point and have lost a few pounds... now clean up the city.
Agreed with the strikers for the first week or two... not anymore, lost any sympathy for them. Rats, mice, smelly bins, etc... We'll start to look and smell like Poopey! Come on guys and girls, you made your point and have lost a few pounds... now clean up the city. Norwegian Saint

4:15pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

smallone,
they need to make cuts, so savings from dismissals will need to go to replacement staff or into the savings pot
smallone, they need to make cuts, so savings from dismissals will need to go to replacement staff or into the savings pot Sotonians_lets_pull_together

4:21pm Wed 10 Aug 11

smallone says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
smallone, they need to make cuts, so savings from dismissals will need to go to replacement staff or into the savings pot
Understood... But sacking the 480 strikers would more than meet the savings for the 400 redundancies that the pay cuts were designed to prevent. Net result = 10% smaller workforce = 10% smaller pay bill. So reinstate pay for those left behind. Everyone's happy. Those that want to work can and on original pay conditions. And strikers can strike permanently!
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: smallone, they need to make cuts, so savings from dismissals will need to go to replacement staff or into the savings pot[/p][/quote]Understood... But sacking the 480 strikers would more than meet the savings for the 400 redundancies that the pay cuts were designed to prevent. Net result = 10% smaller workforce = 10% smaller pay bill. So reinstate pay for those left behind. Everyone's happy. Those that want to work can and on original pay conditions. And strikers can strike permanently! smallone

4:27pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

George4th wrote:
So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey!
>
My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?!
George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?![/p][/quote]George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes loosehead

4:30pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Stillness says...

Dusty wrote:
waltons11 wrote:
Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
No. You define greed by people wanting more than a fair share from a dwindling supply.
[quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.[/p][/quote]No. You define greed by people wanting more than a fair share from a dwindling supply. Stillness

4:32pm Wed 10 Aug 11

The Bin Strikes bore me now says...

And on it goes.

Had sympathy at the beginning. Not anymore. Am sick of going to the tip and I'm sick of looking at the mess made by those who can't be bothered to go.

Like most people in Southampton. I don't really care who's right or who's wrong. I pay alot of money and I just want my bin emptied.

I also don't want to pay more money in tax so someone can have a better pension than I do. That's not fair either.

There is only a finite amount of money.
And on it goes. Had sympathy at the beginning. Not anymore. Am sick of going to the tip and I'm sick of looking at the mess made by those who can't be bothered to go. Like most people in Southampton. I don't really care who's right or who's wrong. I pay alot of money and I just want my bin emptied. I also don't want to pay more money in tax so someone can have a better pension than I do. That's not fair either. There is only a finite amount of money. The Bin Strikes bore me now

4:33pm Wed 10 Aug 11

smallone says...

loosehead wrote:
George4th wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?!
George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes
4800 workers actually. 480 voted to continue to strike. So only 1 in 10 workers actually want to continue to strike. In anything other than strike law that would be seen as a signifcant minority!
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?![/p][/quote]George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes[/p][/quote]4800 workers actually. 480 voted to continue to strike. So only 1 in 10 workers actually want to continue to strike. In anything other than strike law that would be seen as a signifcant minority! smallone

4:38pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

loosehead wrote:
George4th wrote:
So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey!
>
My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?!
George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes
Sorry I meant 4,800. We had private contractors this week people were out thanking them there was no hostility towards them I don't want bin men to lose their jobs ( nor sweepers) but if the council went that way I think the people would happily accept it now so this vote was suicidal unless the council value them more than they have been led to believe.Jeremy Moulton constantly tells me that the council value the workers & they are doing every thing they can to save as many jobs as possible.Even the loony left on here thought the deal would be accepted & in their words the unions would have won & we were all losers.I think the losers could be the people who lose their jobs in the next couple of weeks
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?![/p][/quote]George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes[/p][/quote]Sorry I meant 4,800. We had private contractors this week people were out thanking them there was no hostility towards them I don't want bin men to lose their jobs ( nor sweepers) but if the council went that way I think the people would happily accept it now so this vote was suicidal unless the council value them more than they have been led to believe.Jeremy Moulton constantly tells me that the council value the workers & they are doing every thing they can to save as many jobs as possible.Even the loony left on here thought the deal would be accepted & in their words the unions would have won & we were all losers.I think the losers could be the people who lose their jobs in the next couple of weeks loosehead

4:40pm Wed 10 Aug 11

The Bin Strikes bore me now says...

Right,

For all those sick of the strikes and want their public services back I propose a protest of our own outside the Council Offices this coming Saturday (weekday would be better, but some of us work).

11 Am start, meet next to the war memorial, bring a placard with slogan. I'll bring a megaphone. The creative ones among you come up with some catch chants.

This would NOT be in support of either side, just people of Southampton who are fed up of living in a dump and want to vent some frustration.
Right, For all those sick of the strikes and want their public services back I propose a protest of our own outside the Council Offices this coming Saturday (weekday would be better, but some of us work). 11 Am start, meet next to the war memorial, bring a placard with slogan. I'll bring a megaphone. The creative ones among you come up with some catch chants. This would NOT be in support of either side, just people of Southampton who are fed up of living in a dump and want to vent some frustration. The Bin Strikes bore me now

4:42pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Reality-man says...

Maybe those affected should come up with another way of disposing of their rubbish. So when these losers finally come back to work and come to empty the bins they will be empty, thus making their job redundant. Stop whining and get back to work
Maybe those affected should come up with another way of disposing of their rubbish. So when these losers finally come back to work and come to empty the bins they will be empty, thus making their job redundant. Stop whining and get back to work Reality-man

4:42pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

smallone wrote:
loosehead wrote:
George4th wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?!
George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes
4800 workers actually. 480 voted to continue to strike. So only 1 in 10 workers actually want to continue to strike. In anything other than strike law that would be seen as a signifcant minority!
I'm sorry I got the figure wrong but I have changed it now.totally agree this is the minority what would you do if you were the council?
[quote][p][bold]smallone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: So 1 in 5 Council workers have voted to continue the dispute! This lot are so dopey! > My guess is that there are political motives at play with SOME of those voting to continue - why else would they be so daft?![/p][/quote]George not 1in5 council workers but 1in5 union members. 600 people get a vote out of 2,400 workers so you do the maths & you'll see a minority of the workers are causing these strikes[/p][/quote]4800 workers actually. 480 voted to continue to strike. So only 1 in 10 workers actually want to continue to strike. In anything other than strike law that would be seen as a signifcant minority![/p][/quote]I'm sorry I got the figure wrong but I have changed it now.totally agree this is the minority what would you do if you were the council? loosehead

4:44pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Poppy22 says...

rich the stitch wrote:
Mmmm, think the good weather could have had something to do with this. "sod going back to work, it's sunny" Why do you not understand, you do a minimal wage job and get paid very well for it and get a good pension out of it.....and you’re still not happy. There is no money left in the pot. It's not your fault, it's not my fault but unless you can bend over and pull a couple of £trillion out of your lazy backsides then we all have to suffer, public and private sectors alike.
Hear, hear!
[quote][p][bold]rich the stitch[/bold] wrote: Mmmm, think the good weather could have had something to do with this. "sod going back to work, it's sunny" Why do you not understand, you do a minimal wage job and get paid very well for it and get a good pension out of it.....and you’re still not happy. There is no money left in the pot. It's not your fault, it's not my fault but unless you can bend over and pull a couple of £trillion out of your lazy backsides then we all have to suffer, public and private sectors alike.[/p][/quote]Hear, hear! Poppy22

4:50pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Stillness says...

I'm sure that those about to be sacked will have no problem finding another job. After all they have had 12 weeks to brush up their interview skills and get their CV's looking at there best.
I'm sure that those about to be sacked will have no problem finding another job. After all they have had 12 weeks to brush up their interview skills and get their CV's looking at there best. Stillness

5:00pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Northam Lady says...

Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.
Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support. Northam Lady

5:01pm Wed 10 Aug 11

mummsie says...

Right Royston.... Now sack the flaming lot of them!!!! Been doing their job for weeks now so no hardship here if we never have a bin man down my road again! Never did a proper job anyway as the bins were always left in the middle of pavements and they were always in too much of a hurry to finish the job and get down the pub. Bye Bye Bin Men!
Right Royston.... Now sack the flaming lot of them!!!! Been doing their job for weeks now so no hardship here if we never have a bin man down my road again! Never did a proper job anyway as the bins were always left in the middle of pavements and they were always in too much of a hurry to finish the job and get down the pub. Bye Bye Bin Men! mummsie

5:06pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Condor Man says...

I'd like to know how Mike Tucker is paid. Is he in the employ of SCC or Unison? Is he receiving a full weeks pay or is he too not getting wages whilst he encourages this strike? Come on Echo, start looking into the people perpetrating this nonsense.
I'd like to know how Mike Tucker is paid. Is he in the employ of SCC or Unison? Is he receiving a full weeks pay or is he too not getting wages whilst he encourages this strike? Come on Echo, start looking into the people perpetrating this nonsense. Condor Man

5:12pm Wed 10 Aug 11

mummsie says...

Bitternegirl wrote:
I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs.

Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to.

My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said.

In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax.
We both think the same Bitternegirl and i bet a **** sight others will do also! Shall i or sharn't i pay the Council Tax this month or not? mmmmm! Will certainly make them wait for it !
[quote][p][bold]Bitternegirl[/bold] wrote: I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs. Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to. My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said. In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax.[/p][/quote]We both think the same Bitternegirl and i bet a **** sight others will do also! Shall i or sharn't i pay the Council Tax this month or not? mmmmm! Will certainly make them wait for it ! mummsie

5:14pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Hopeful75 says...

Just to clarify on the two proposals that sotonians lets pull together mentioned. They are not the full proposals.

No 2. To continue with the industrial action in accordance with the rules of our respective trade unions. The trade unions will remain willing to negotiate with the councils while the industrial action continues.

They intend to keep negotiations going.
Just to clarify on the two proposals that sotonians lets pull together mentioned. They are not the full proposals. No 2. To continue with the industrial action in accordance with the rules of our respective trade unions. The trade unions will remain willing to negotiate with the councils while the industrial action continues. They intend to keep negotiations going. Hopeful75

5:18pm Wed 10 Aug 11

endzone says...

youbadneighbour wrote:
In the past 13 weeks I have been to the dump 4 or 5 times to get rid of my rubbish and am now starting to believe that we don't really need the bin men. Or at least very few of them.

Can I have my tax back now please.
Totally agree with your comment.I have come to realise that i can cope without bin men.
[quote][p][bold]youbadneighbour[/bold] wrote: In the past 13 weeks I have been to the dump 4 or 5 times to get rid of my rubbish and am now starting to believe that we don't really need the bin men. Or at least very few of them. Can I have my tax back now please.[/p][/quote]Totally agree with your comment.I have come to realise that i can cope without bin men. endzone

5:21pm Wed 10 Aug 11

smallone says...

Condor Man wrote:
I'd like to know how Mike Tucker is paid. Is he in the employ of SCC or Unison? Is he receiving a full weeks pay or is he too not getting wages whilst he encourages this strike? Come on Echo, start looking into the people perpetrating this nonsense.
Ironically I believe he continues to be paid (very well!) by SCC while he is inciting union members to strike - it's his "job"! Value for money to the tax payer I wonder??? SCC have got loads of union staff on their pay books!
[quote][p][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote: I'd like to know how Mike Tucker is paid. Is he in the employ of SCC or Unison? Is he receiving a full weeks pay or is he too not getting wages whilst he encourages this strike? Come on Echo, start looking into the people perpetrating this nonsense.[/p][/quote]Ironically I believe he continues to be paid (very well!) by SCC while he is inciting union members to strike - it's his "job"! Value for money to the tax payer I wonder??? SCC have got loads of union staff on their pay books! smallone

5:22pm Wed 10 Aug 11

freemantlegirl2 says...

Northam Lady wrote:
Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.
No it's not obvious, it's a sign that the rest of us are fed up with the 'politicians' who are posting on here and bad-mouthing everyone.

Whilst I support the workers and still believe that most may have an unfair dismissal case. This is NOT just about the dustmen although that is the thing that everyone has noticed. I'm disappointed these latest talks have broken down and they really need to get round the table again. Also note that there was no 'recommendation' from the union on which option to vote for, so that rather does away with the assertions of people having their strings pulled doesn't it.

The council could send in overnight cleaning teams into the city centre and clear it all but they're choosing not to.... in spite of all their rhetoric of keeping the city going...

The council have issued several statements saying that people won't get a refund on council tax, how many more times. The percentage of the tax that goes on refuse collection is a fraction of the Tax. If the Tories had put up the council tax by a manageable amount, say a pound a week they could raise more revenue but no because then that would be quite stupid wouldn't it. if people thnk it's fair for people to lose pay, then I think it's fair that we all pay a little more Council Tax too. After all it's CT that provides for services and the government that have denied Southampton the funds it needs to maintain front line services.
[quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.[/p][/quote]No it's not obvious, it's a sign that the rest of us are fed up with the 'politicians' who are posting on here and bad-mouthing everyone. Whilst I support the workers and still believe that most may have an unfair dismissal case. This is NOT just about the dustmen although that is the thing that everyone has noticed. I'm disappointed these latest talks have broken down and they really need to get round the table again. Also note that there was no 'recommendation' from the union on which option to vote for, so that rather does away with the assertions of people having their strings pulled doesn't it. The council could send in overnight cleaning teams into the city centre and clear it all but they're choosing not to.... in spite of all their rhetoric of keeping the city going... The council have issued several statements saying that people won't get a refund on council tax, how many more times. The percentage of the tax that goes on refuse collection is a fraction of the Tax. If the Tories had put up the council tax by a manageable amount, say a pound a week they could raise more revenue but no because then that would be quite stupid wouldn't it. if people thnk it's fair for people to lose pay, then I think it's fair that we all pay a little more Council Tax too. After all it's CT that provides for services and the government that have denied Southampton the funds it needs to maintain front line services. freemantlegirl2

5:27pm Wed 10 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

I am also disappointed and unhappy with the outcome, I thought it was looking promising, I would like to know what exactly was on offer, the fact that the vote was overwhelming makes it seem as if it just wasn't anywhere near enough, are there hidden agendas that we don't know about? With the Bank of England forecasting 5% inflation before the start of 2012, pay cuts won't compensate for that.
I am also disappointed and unhappy with the outcome, I thought it was looking promising, I would like to know what exactly was on offer, the fact that the vote was overwhelming makes it seem as if it just wasn't anywhere near enough, are there hidden agendas that we don't know about? With the Bank of England forecasting 5% inflation before the start of 2012, pay cuts won't compensate for that. OSPREYSAINT

5:48pm Wed 10 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

StEmmosfire wrote:
What a great example they are setting. Especially in the current climate of lawless rioting.
Subtle difference,,,,, the right to strike is legal,,,looting is illegal,,,,the two are not or should be linked
[quote][p][bold]StEmmosfire[/bold] wrote: What a great example they are setting. Especially in the current climate of lawless rioting.[/p][/quote]Subtle difference,,,,, the right to strike is legal,,,looting is illegal,,,,the two are not or should be linked My View From Here

5:56pm Wed 10 Aug 11

nedscrumpo says...

All these comments and nobody actually knows what the alleged "new offer" was.
All these comments and nobody actually knows what the alleged "new offer" was. nedscrumpo

6:10pm Wed 10 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Northam Lady wrote:
Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.
No it's not obvious, it's a sign that the rest of us are fed up with the 'politicians' who are posting on here and bad-mouthing everyone.

Whilst I support the workers and still believe that most may have an unfair dismissal case. This is NOT just about the dustmen although that is the thing that everyone has noticed. I'm disappointed these latest talks have broken down and they really need to get round the table again. Also note that there was no 'recommendation' from the union on which option to vote for, so that rather does away with the assertions of people having their strings pulled doesn't it.

The council could send in overnight cleaning teams into the city centre and clear it all but they're choosing not to.... in spite of all their rhetoric of keeping the city going...

The council have issued several statements saying that people won't get a refund on council tax, how many more times. The percentage of the tax that goes on refuse collection is a fraction of the Tax. If the Tories had put up the council tax by a manageable amount, say a pound a week they could raise more revenue but no because then that would be quite stupid wouldn't it. if people thnk it's fair for people to lose pay, then I think it's fair that we all pay a little more Council Tax too. After all it's CT that provides for services and the government that have denied Southampton the funds it needs to maintain front line services.
Eric Pickles stopped local authorities increasing council tax, if they do they will be capped by Central Government, however Eric Pickles also put aside £650 million for local authorities who are struggling to manage the cuts, our council clearly is.

I wonder if SCC applied for any of this pot of money?

The problem we have here was started 12 weeks by a certain councillor refusing point blank to talk to the workers, he treated them like sh1t and expected to get away with it.

I still fully support the workers, yes I'm annoyed as the next person, however bullies need to be beaten else they just carry on bullying.

What also amazes me is that this Government can find extra money for overseas aid, (not saying they don't deserve it) extra money for policing Libya (total waste of our money) but refuse point blank to re-schedule the cuts inflicted on the voluntary and public sectors or find extra money for the people of this country, totally and utterly unacceptable.
[quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.[/p][/quote]No it's not obvious, it's a sign that the rest of us are fed up with the 'politicians' who are posting on here and bad-mouthing everyone. Whilst I support the workers and still believe that most may have an unfair dismissal case. This is NOT just about the dustmen although that is the thing that everyone has noticed. I'm disappointed these latest talks have broken down and they really need to get round the table again. Also note that there was no 'recommendation' from the union on which option to vote for, so that rather does away with the assertions of people having their strings pulled doesn't it. The council could send in overnight cleaning teams into the city centre and clear it all but they're choosing not to.... in spite of all their rhetoric of keeping the city going... The council have issued several statements saying that people won't get a refund on council tax, how many more times. The percentage of the tax that goes on refuse collection is a fraction of the Tax. If the Tories had put up the council tax by a manageable amount, say a pound a week they could raise more revenue but no because then that would be quite stupid wouldn't it. if people thnk it's fair for people to lose pay, then I think it's fair that we all pay a little more Council Tax too. After all it's CT that provides for services and the government that have denied Southampton the funds it needs to maintain front line services.[/p][/quote]Eric Pickles stopped local authorities increasing council tax, if they do they will be capped by Central Government, however Eric Pickles also put aside £650 million for local authorities who are struggling to manage the cuts, our council clearly is. I wonder if SCC applied for any of this pot of money? The problem we have here was started 12 weeks by a certain councillor refusing point blank to talk to the workers, he treated them like sh1t and expected to get away with it. I still fully support the workers, yes I'm annoyed as the next person, however bullies need to be beaten else they just carry on bullying. What also amazes me is that this Government can find extra money for overseas aid, (not saying they don't deserve it) extra money for policing Libya (total waste of our money) but refuse point blank to re-schedule the cuts inflicted on the voluntary and public sectors or find extra money for the people of this country, totally and utterly unacceptable. My View From Here

6:14pm Wed 10 Aug 11

corgiman says...

nice 'final offer'! give us 1/2% less of a paycut, then take 1 day holiday previously given for enforcing a paycut back! having taken an £8000 paycut 3 years ago and now this, dont quite see how we are all in this together. perhaps, as 'sotonians lets pull together' is so pro royston and his cronies, they could all club together and donate some of their' hard earned cash' to some of the real workers.
nice 'final offer'! give us 1/2% less of a paycut, then take 1 day holiday previously given for enforcing a paycut back! having taken an £8000 paycut 3 years ago and now this, dont quite see how we are all in this together. perhaps, as 'sotonians lets pull together' is so pro royston and his cronies, they could all club together and donate some of their' hard earned cash' to some of the real workers. corgiman

6:20pm Wed 10 Aug 11

S Noss says...

I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate. S Noss

6:25pm Wed 10 Aug 11

scotsaint says...

So 4 to 1 voted to continue the strike. Well if any of them are reading this they will see that local opinion based on these 60 comments is far more than 4 to 1 against their actions. I am sure it would be nearer 40 to 1 against. These striking idiots should wake up are realise that if they dont see their good fortune to be employed in a secure and copper bottomed pension job soon, they may not have one at all. Grow up and get back to work. There are many many people in this city worse off than you
So 4 to 1 voted to continue the strike. Well if any of them are reading this they will see that local opinion based on these 60 comments is far more than 4 to 1 against their actions. I am sure it would be nearer 40 to 1 against. These striking idiots should wake up are realise that if they dont see their good fortune to be employed in a secure and copper bottomed pension job soon, they may not have one at all. Grow up and get back to work. There are many many people in this city worse off than you scotsaint

6:28pm Wed 10 Aug 11

SOULJACKER says...

Time to send out their P45's now :D
This stuff has gone on far too long & people are fed right up with these jacka$$es :(

GET BACK TO WORK!
Time to send out their P45's now :D This stuff has gone on far too long & people are fed right up with these jacka$$es :( GET BACK TO WORK! SOULJACKER

6:33pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Northam Lady says...

Interesting - no comments from any of the strikers as to whether they have been doing Voluntary work. They are too Selfish, of course. The whole reason for the strikes. Me, Me,Me - that's them! Get rid of the lot of them, bring in private contractors if necessary - just Get Our City Clean, for Goodness' Sake.
Interesting - no comments from any of the strikers as to whether they have been doing Voluntary work. They are too Selfish, of course. The whole reason for the strikes. Me, Me,Me - that's them! Get rid of the lot of them, bring in private contractors if necessary - just Get Our City Clean, for Goodness' Sake. Northam Lady

6:40pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sovietobserver says...

Only twelve weeks on strike ! Early days yet. According to Wikipedia the longest strike in British history was the Burston school strike in Norfolk 1914-1939 ! A long way to go yet Mike Tucker.
Only twelve weeks on strike ! Early days yet. According to Wikipedia the longest strike in British history was the Burston school strike in Norfolk 1914-1939 ! A long way to go yet Mike Tucker. Sovietobserver

6:44pm Wed 10 Aug 11

IronLady2010 says...

Leave them to strike, let them watch their own colleagues be out of a job due to redundancies.

Bored of the whole thing now, just carry on striking, no-one cares any more!
Leave them to strike, let them watch their own colleagues be out of a job due to redundancies. Bored of the whole thing now, just carry on striking, no-one cares any more! IronLady2010

6:52pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Hopeful75

I quoted what was on the southampton unison site (http://www.soton-un
ison-office.org.uk/l
atestnews.htm)

Since I posted it, they have added another post on what options they say were actually presented to the meeting, but the earlier version which I quoted is still there below.

Maybe they realised proposal two didnt show any willingness to negotiate and expanded it. Maybe it wasnt quoted in full originally on the site, maybe it was a draft, I have no idea.

Its interesting that they could only get around 600 people to turn up and vote, across both Unite and Unison, and only around 150 of those were against the strikes.

So, what about the rest of the council workers? The vast majority of the council workers who were NOT voting at that meeting?

Are they all against the strikes, and are worried about going along to vote down strike action?

Or are the majority accepting their new jobs and contracts, understanding that the cuts are inevitable, and just ignoring the unions now?

Its a shame a few hundred workers didnt go along to the meeting and vote down the strikes once and for all.

But I understand it, its easy to see why the moderates would potentially feel intimidated, going to the meeting to vote down the strikes.

Good to see some of the moderates making their views known on here though.
Hopeful75 I quoted what was on the southampton unison site (http://www.soton-un ison-office.org.uk/l atestnews.htm) Since I posted it, they have added another post on what options they say were actually presented to the meeting, but the earlier version which I quoted is still there below. Maybe they realised proposal two didnt show any willingness to negotiate and expanded it. Maybe it wasnt quoted in full originally on the site, maybe it was a draft, I have no idea. Its interesting that they could only get around 600 people to turn up and vote, across both Unite and Unison, and only around 150 of those were against the strikes. So, what about the rest of the council workers? The vast majority of the council workers who were NOT voting at that meeting? Are they all against the strikes, and are worried about going along to vote down strike action? Or are the majority accepting their new jobs and contracts, understanding that the cuts are inevitable, and just ignoring the unions now? Its a shame a few hundred workers didnt go along to the meeting and vote down the strikes once and for all. But I understand it, its easy to see why the moderates would potentially feel intimidated, going to the meeting to vote down the strikes. Good to see some of the moderates making their views known on here though. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

6:55pm Wed 10 Aug 11

S Noss says...

Northam Lady wrote:
Interesting - no comments from any of the strikers as to whether they have been doing Voluntary work. They are too Selfish, of course. The whole reason for the strikes. Me, Me,Me - that's them! Get rid of the lot of them, bring in private contractors if necessary - just Get Our City Clean, for Goodness' Sake.
I occasionally help groups with literacy needs locally and sometimes provide translation services, on a voluntary basis, for people who work to help others in areas of conflict abroad. Good enough for you?
[quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Interesting - no comments from any of the strikers as to whether they have been doing Voluntary work. They are too Selfish, of course. The whole reason for the strikes. Me, Me,Me - that's them! Get rid of the lot of them, bring in private contractors if necessary - just Get Our City Clean, for Goodness' Sake.[/p][/quote]I occasionally help groups with literacy needs locally and sometimes provide translation services, on a voluntary basis, for people who work to help others in areas of conflict abroad. Good enough for you? S Noss

6:57pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Soton_Diamond says...

I think the strikers should give more consideration to where they stand, blow their whistles and wave their placards. Right by a pedestrian crossing, distracting drivers I feel leaves other drivers and pedestrians at risk of an accident. I understand they want to be seen and heard but surely there are other, safer places to do this??
I think the strikers should give more consideration to where they stand, blow their whistles and wave their placards. Right by a pedestrian crossing, distracting drivers I feel leaves other drivers and pedestrians at risk of an accident. I understand they want to be seen and heard but surely there are other, safer places to do this?? Soton_Diamond

6:58pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Its clear that if the rest of the workers were FOR the strikes, they would surely be standing beside their 'brothers', to demonstrate that the strike would have a clear mandate. Particularly after seeing how the strike has only been supported by a minority in previous votes too.

So its very interesting to see SUCH a small minority of the workers supporting these strikes continuing.

So it perhaps wont be much of an issue to the rest of the workers if the remaining strikers are sacked once the twelve week protected period has expired.
Its clear that if the rest of the workers were FOR the strikes, they would surely be standing beside their 'brothers', to demonstrate that the strike would have a clear mandate. Particularly after seeing how the strike has only been supported by a minority in previous votes too. So its very interesting to see SUCH a small minority of the workers supporting these strikes continuing. So it perhaps wont be much of an issue to the rest of the workers if the remaining strikers are sacked once the twelve week protected period has expired. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:11pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
S Noss

Sorry, it seems to me pointless striking over woolly views like that. You can never "win" a strike held on that basis. If you dont have a concrete objective on which to base negotiations, you will get nowhere, which seems to be where the strikes are right now.

Surely you appreciate that the Labour approach would mean more redundancies and a bigger loss of front line services?

The only purpose for supporting the Labour view as far as I can see it, is for personal greed - ie workers would either get a redundancy package or to keep their jobs on the on old pay scale. What would give would be the services.

I dont think there is any credibility to claims that the strikes will help protect services.

Any money the strikes and legal battles cost the council will have to come straight off the budget, meaning even bigger cuts

The strikes seem selfish and entirely self defeating.
[quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]S Noss Sorry, it seems to me pointless striking over woolly views like that. You can never "win" a strike held on that basis. If you dont have a concrete objective on which to base negotiations, you will get nowhere, which seems to be where the strikes are right now. Surely you appreciate that the Labour approach would mean more redundancies and a bigger loss of front line services? The only purpose for supporting the Labour view as far as I can see it, is for personal greed - ie workers would either get a redundancy package or to keep their jobs on the on old pay scale. What would give would be the services. I dont think there is any credibility to claims that the strikes will help protect services. Any money the strikes and legal battles cost the council will have to come straight off the budget, meaning even bigger cuts The strikes seem selfish and entirely self defeating. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:15pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Paramjit Bahia says...

Same regular anti workers posters seem to be at it again, without admitting that only this morning some of them were bragging about having defeated the organised workers
.
Workers are neither cowards nor stupid, they know what the decrease in wages while the cost of living is increasing by the day can mean for them and their dependents. So they have once again voted to exercise their right to protest by withdrawing their labour. Their democratic decision deserves respect and full support
.
Rather than picking upon workers local Councillors should be demanding proper resources from Pickle in London, who should be telling Cameron, Clegg and other pro EU, war mongers and virtual puppets of bosses and bankers (Many of which can also be found in Milliband led Labour Party) to stop wasting billions upon billions on these unnecessary and completely foolish projects and use nation’s resources for the benefit of Britain, by providing proper services to the people and decent wage to workers who deliver those.
Same regular anti workers posters seem to be at it again, without admitting that only this morning some of them were bragging about having defeated the organised workers . Workers are neither cowards nor stupid, they know what the decrease in wages while the cost of living is increasing by the day can mean for them and their dependents. So they have once again voted to exercise their right to protest by withdrawing their labour. Their democratic decision deserves respect and full support . Rather than picking upon workers local Councillors should be demanding proper resources from Pickle in London, who should be telling Cameron, Clegg and other pro EU, war mongers and virtual puppets of bosses and bankers (Many of which can also be found in Milliband led Labour Party) to stop wasting billions upon billions on these unnecessary and completely foolish projects and use nation’s resources for the benefit of Britain, by providing proper services to the people and decent wage to workers who deliver those. Paramjit Bahia

7:16pm Wed 10 Aug 11

THEKILLER says...

If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different .
A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!!
If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different . A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!! THEKILLER

7:17pm Wed 10 Aug 11

RadicalEmu says...

Northam Lady wrote:
Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.
How does riding a bike for Rupert help the community?
[quote][p][bold]Northam Lady[/bold] wrote: Bin Strikes bore me now - I would join you if I could but am having a briefing as a Marshall for Sunday's Sky Ride.( I wonder if the strikers have been doing any voluntary work to help their communities). Doubt it somehow. After all, who would want them? With you in thought, though and Well Done! Hope you get Loads of support. It's so obvious from these postings that the strikers have lost all support.[/p][/quote]How does riding a bike for Rupert help the community? RadicalEmu

7:26pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Paramjit,

The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on.

The residents find them irrelevant

They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting

How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it.

It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again?

The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small.

It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts

The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out.

So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action.

At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too.

The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses.

Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation.

The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be.

The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now.
Paramjit, The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on. The residents find them irrelevant They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it. It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again? The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small. It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out. So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action. At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too. The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses. Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation. The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be. The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:28pm Wed 10 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

THEKILLER wrote:
If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different .
A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!!
The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted.

Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really.
[quote][p][bold]THEKILLER[/bold] wrote: If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different . A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!![/p][/quote]The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted. Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really. My View From Here

7:29pm Wed 10 Aug 11

RadicalEmu says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Paramjit,

The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on.

The residents find them irrelevant

They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting

How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it.

It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again?

The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small.

It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts

The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out.

So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action.

At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too.

The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses.

Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation.

The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be.

The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now.
A peaceful strike is 'militant' action?
.
Where were you in the 80's?
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Paramjit, The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on. The residents find them irrelevant They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it. It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again? The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small. It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out. So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action. At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too. The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses. Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation. The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be. The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now.[/p][/quote]A peaceful strike is 'militant' action? . Where were you in the 80's? RadicalEmu

7:33pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required.

Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts?

If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again?

Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas.

I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other!
I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required. Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts? If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again? Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas. I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other! Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:35pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

My View From Here wrote:
THEKILLER wrote:
If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different .
A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!!
The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted.

Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really.
Maybe all the council workers against the strikes should join the union, and vote down the strikes!

The council could even pay their membership dues.

Would be cheaper than other solutions
[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]THEKILLER[/bold] wrote: If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different . A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!![/p][/quote]The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted. Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really.[/p][/quote]Maybe all the council workers against the strikes should join the union, and vote down the strikes! The council could even pay their membership dues. Would be cheaper than other solutions Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:41pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

RadicalEmu wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Paramjit,

The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on.

The residents find them irrelevant

They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting

How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it.

It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again?

The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small.

It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts

The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out.

So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action.

At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too.

The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses.

Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation.

The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be.

The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now.
A peaceful strike is 'militant' action?
.
Where were you in the 80's?
Radical Emu

"A peaceful strike is 'militant' action?
Where were you in the 80's?"

Yes, I believe it is militant

If the unions were prepared to negotiate, to accept the concessions they have won from the council, fair enough. But it seems that they are not. It just seems political.

And as far as I am aware political strikes are not protected, its only industrial action over pay and conditions that are legitimate.

In the UK political strikes are now in effect outlawed

eg "Minister Francis Maude said any 'general strike' would, in any case, be illegal"
[quote][p][bold]RadicalEmu[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Paramjit, The strikes have been beaten, there is just a rump limping on. The residents find them irrelevant They are used to disposing of their rubbish themselves, and contractors are assisting How many of us are irritated by anything other than the bins not being emptied? And I would say almost all of us have both had our bins emptied a few times now, and are also used to taking our rubbish to the dump to help out. It is such a routine now, we just dont notice it. It looks like the strikers are about to come out of their protected period, and may be liable to be dismissed if they come out on strike again? The numbers attending the joint unite and unison meeting were laughably small. It seems like the unions have little sway now with the majority of council workers, who are now working under the new contracts The unions seem to have said the legal action taken by the unions will carry on whatever, and the council is confident it can defend it. So the legal action is no bargaining chip in the negotiations, it is just something that will play out. So, it seems to be a matter of dismissing those where the relationship has irrevocably broken down, and then waiting for the results of the legal action. At which point, if the unions have any success, it will just mean new pay cuts under a new and robust notice and dismissal process, probably deeper than before, and probably more redundnacies too. The workers have to realise that anything they manage to get out of the council through negotiation or legal action, will still have to be clawed back over the next few years through more pay cuts or job losses. Time to wake up and see the reality of the situation. The more trouble the workers cause, the deeper the cuts will have to be. The residents wont tolerate footing the bill for the militants to avoid the economic realities we are all living with now.[/p][/quote]A peaceful strike is 'militant' action? . Where were you in the 80's?[/p][/quote]Radical Emu "A peaceful strike is 'militant' action? Where were you in the 80's?" Yes, I believe it is militant If the unions were prepared to negotiate, to accept the concessions they have won from the council, fair enough. But it seems that they are not. It just seems political. And as far as I am aware political strikes are not protected, its only industrial action over pay and conditions that are legitimate. In the UK political strikes are now in effect outlawed eg "Minister Francis Maude said any 'general strike' would, in any case, be illegal" Sotonians_lets_pull_together

7:42pm Wed 10 Aug 11

RadicalEmu says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required.

Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts?

If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again?

Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas.

I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other!
Something's fishy here.
.
The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up.
.
The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events.
.
s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required. Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts? If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again? Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas. I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other![/p][/quote]Something's fishy here. . The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up. . The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events. . s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing. RadicalEmu

7:59pm Wed 10 Aug 11

IanRRR says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Same regular anti workers posters seem to be at it again, without admitting that only this morning some of them were bragging about having defeated the organised workers . Workers are neither cowards nor stupid, they know what the decrease in wages while the cost of living is increasing by the day can mean for them and their dependents. So they have once again voted to exercise their right to protest by withdrawing their labour. Their democratic decision deserves respect and full support . Rather than picking upon workers local Councillors should be demanding proper resources from Pickle in London, who should be telling Cameron, Clegg and other pro EU, war mongers and virtual puppets of bosses and bankers (Many of which can also be found in Milliband led Labour Party) to stop wasting billions upon billions on these unnecessary and completely foolish projects and use nation’s resources for the benefit of Britain, by providing proper services to the people and decent wage to workers who deliver those.
You have to love him though, dont you? Anyone so far out of touch with reality needs your love!
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Same regular anti workers posters seem to be at it again, without admitting that only this morning some of them were bragging about having defeated the organised workers . Workers are neither cowards nor stupid, they know what the decrease in wages while the cost of living is increasing by the day can mean for them and their dependents. So they have once again voted to exercise their right to protest by withdrawing their labour. Their democratic decision deserves respect and full support . Rather than picking upon workers local Councillors should be demanding proper resources from Pickle in London, who should be telling Cameron, Clegg and other pro EU, war mongers and virtual puppets of bosses and bankers (Many of which can also be found in Milliband led Labour Party) to stop wasting billions upon billions on these unnecessary and completely foolish projects and use nation’s resources for the benefit of Britain, by providing proper services to the people and decent wage to workers who deliver those.[/p][/quote]You have to love him though, dont you? Anyone so far out of touch with reality needs your love! IanRRR

8:01pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

RadicalEmu wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required.

Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts?

If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again?

Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas.

I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other!
Something's fishy here.
.
The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up.
.
The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events.
.
s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing.
The situation seems pretty much common sense to me Radical Emu.

If I had the power to make the decision I would be pressing to sack any strikers as soon as it is legal, and make it clear to them beforehand that that would be the consequence of striking again.

I would prefer it was done by warning people first, say, so they still had the opportunity to come onboard, but it possibly wouldnt be necessary.

I think acting decisively like this would be a vote winner, and the workers who are sick of the strikes, and sick of how the residents are being turned against them all would be (secretly?) grateful too.

But, as I dont know for sure what the legalities are, I just suggest that the strikers should make sure they are away of what the reality of the situation is, once the legally protected period is up, so they dont take a course of action which lands them out of a job.

I have more sympathy for the workers who are simply "lefty" sheep in all this, as compared to the the union puppeteers.
[quote][p][bold]RadicalEmu[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required. Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts? If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again? Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas. I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other![/p][/quote]Something's fishy here. . The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up. . The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events. . s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing.[/p][/quote]The situation seems pretty much common sense to me Radical Emu. If I had the power to make the decision I would be pressing to sack any strikers as soon as it is legal, and make it clear to them beforehand that that would be the consequence of striking again. I would prefer it was done by warning people first, say, so they still had the opportunity to come onboard, but it possibly wouldnt be necessary. I think acting decisively like this would be a vote winner, and the workers who are sick of the strikes, and sick of how the residents are being turned against them all would be (secretly?) grateful too. But, as I dont know for sure what the legalities are, I just suggest that the strikers should make sure they are away of what the reality of the situation is, once the legally protected period is up, so they dont take a course of action which lands them out of a job. I have more sympathy for the workers who are simply "lefty" sheep in all this, as compared to the the union puppeteers. Sotonians_lets_pull_together

8:15pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Northam Lady says...

S Noss - Yes. Have you been able to persuade many of your fellow strikers to get involved. Let me know the figures, (of the strikers who are doing voluntary work) then we'll talk about what they can do to help their Communities instead of leaving them to rot in rubbish...
S Noss - Yes. Have you been able to persuade many of your fellow strikers to get involved. Let me know the figures, (of the strikers who are doing voluntary work) then we'll talk about what they can do to help their Communities instead of leaving them to rot in rubbish... Northam Lady

8:18pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Lone Ranger. says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
RadicalEmu wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required.

Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts?

If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again?

Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas.

I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other!
Something's fishy here.
.
The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up.
.
The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events.
.
s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing.
The situation seems pretty much common sense to me Radical Emu.

If I had the power to make the decision I would be pressing to sack any strikers as soon as it is legal, and make it clear to them beforehand that that would be the consequence of striking again.

I would prefer it was done by warning people first, say, so they still had the opportunity to come onboard, but it possibly wouldnt be necessary.

I think acting decisively like this would be a vote winner, and the workers who are sick of the strikes, and sick of how the residents are being turned against them all would be (secretly?) grateful too.

But, as I dont know for sure what the legalities are, I just suggest that the strikers should make sure they are away of what the reality of the situation is, once the legally protected period is up, so they dont take a course of action which lands them out of a job.

I have more sympathy for the workers who are simply "lefty" sheep in all this, as compared to the the union puppeteers.
Your posts were more credible when you were quoting from the Hampshire Police Facebook/Twitter pages yesterday.
.
All you had to do was copy and paste, which is something that you and your pals are good at.
.
According to you all public employees should be on the basic minimum wage.
.
But then again you are a Tory who must be very disappointed that there is a minimum wage
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RadicalEmu[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: I assume that any dismissals of strikers after the twelve week period has ended will be able to be done by the council without paying anything other than statutory notice? Is that correct? ie no redundancy packages required. Will they even have to give notice if they already gave notice at the time of dismissal and reenagement. Could the workers just be summarily dismissed if the workers are simply not willing to work under the basis of their new or implied contracts? If that is the case, have the unions been informing the workers that they could be out on their ear immediately with no payoff if they strike again? Because if that is the situation, and it comes as a shock to those workers, it will be tragic for them and their families as the year closes in and we approach Christmas. I dont know what the exact situation is, but if I was a striker, I would want to make sure one way or the other![/p][/quote]Something's fishy here. . The post directed to Paramjit is very sure of itself, knows a lot about the inner workings of the situation. It also has a lot of demotivating statements, a tactic the Met has used to try to get protest groups to give up. . The post I'm quoting is almost falling over itself to appear to not know anything, while giving little hints at possible future events. . s/w: bank-gain - Maybe, but workers of all sectors are gaining nothing.[/p][/quote]The situation seems pretty much common sense to me Radical Emu. If I had the power to make the decision I would be pressing to sack any strikers as soon as it is legal, and make it clear to them beforehand that that would be the consequence of striking again. I would prefer it was done by warning people first, say, so they still had the opportunity to come onboard, but it possibly wouldnt be necessary. I think acting decisively like this would be a vote winner, and the workers who are sick of the strikes, and sick of how the residents are being turned against them all would be (secretly?) grateful too. But, as I dont know for sure what the legalities are, I just suggest that the strikers should make sure they are away of what the reality of the situation is, once the legally protected period is up, so they dont take a course of action which lands them out of a job. I have more sympathy for the workers who are simply "lefty" sheep in all this, as compared to the the union puppeteers.[/p][/quote]Your posts were more credible when you were quoting from the Hampshire Police Facebook/Twitter pages yesterday. . All you had to do was copy and paste, which is something that you and your pals are good at. . According to you all public employees should be on the basic minimum wage. . But then again you are a Tory who must be very disappointed that there is a minimum wage Lone Ranger.

8:19pm Wed 10 Aug 11

rachysetty says...

wrote:
Southampton City Centre is a complete embarrasment during this tourist season - people will go away & tell people to avoid this city, just as we are getting back to where it should be by showing off its history with Tudor House re-opening. The council should be ashamed they are not providing a suitable replacement service to keep our city clean. If we had a contract with a private company we would be able to go to trading standards for them not fulfilling a contract we have paid for - we should have a proportionate refund of our taxes. The council should also be ashamed they have not taken this into hand and sorted it. Refuse collectors work hard and do one of the hardest jobs out there that many of us would not do. The council have the power to rectify the situation.
[quote][p][bold][/bold] wrote: [/p][/quote]Southampton City Centre is a complete embarrasment during this tourist season - people will go away & tell people to avoid this city, just as we are getting back to where it should be by showing off its history with Tudor House re-opening. The council should be ashamed they are not providing a suitable replacement service to keep our city clean. If we had a contract with a private company we would be able to go to trading standards for them not fulfilling a contract we have paid for - we should have a proportionate refund of our taxes. The council should also be ashamed they have not taken this into hand and sorted it. Refuse collectors work hard and do one of the hardest jobs out there that many of us would not do. The council have the power to rectify the situation. rachysetty

8:22pm Wed 10 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
My View From Here wrote:
THEKILLER wrote:
If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different .
A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!!
The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted.

Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really.
Maybe all the council workers against the strikes should join the union, and vote down the strikes!

The council could even pay their membership dues.

Would be cheaper than other solutions
That would be their choice, they choose not too, again another example of living and working in a democratic country, lovely really, living in a country where we have freedom of choice.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]THEKILLER[/bold] wrote: If he unions were to have a secret ballot then they would find the result would be very different . A mass meeting held with only 600 of the 4800 workforce is hardly a fair result, plus mass meetings can be very intimating with the bully boys looking for those not toeing the line!![/p][/quote]The 4800 workers are not all union members, so your figures are a bit distorted. Union members voted to continue to strike, democracy in action, enough said really.[/p][/quote]Maybe all the council workers against the strikes should join the union, and vote down the strikes! The council could even pay their membership dues. Would be cheaper than other solutions[/p][/quote]That would be their choice, they choose not too, again another example of living and working in a democratic country, lovely really, living in a country where we have freedom of choice. My View From Here

9:08pm Wed 10 Aug 11

BillyTheKid says...

It is likely that most of the binmen would have had many extra hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on them over an eleven-year period in school through special needs support. Unlike university students, they have not had to pay any of it back. So they respond to the generosity and kindness of society by demanding more than others of a similar standing, and leaving our streets in a stinking mess until they get their way.
It is likely that most of the binmen would have had many extra hundreds of thousands of pounds spent on them over an eleven-year period in school through special needs support. Unlike university students, they have not had to pay any of it back. So they respond to the generosity and kindness of society by demanding more than others of a similar standing, and leaving our streets in a stinking mess until they get their way. BillyTheKid

9:23pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

Did any of you watch the BBC tonight? Mike Tucker was on there this man usually comes on talking about beating the pay cuts & seems to be sure of himself well tonight he looked & sounded shell shocked as if he wanted to say where do we go know? if he was confident in the court actions he didn't show it.he thought the unions were in charge but the lies this man & his colleagues have been giving the union members has come back to bite him in the ****.the unions felt they had beaten the council they put the latest proposals to the members with two options they were thrown out by the members if they had negotiated at ACAS this wouldn't have happened.Royston came on & said the council didn't want to resort to sacking people but things had to get back to normal & they would do whatever was necessary.That should be a warning to the strikers.Why is it legal for 480 people to stop 4,320 people from going to work? that's right the unions aren't calling them all out.but how can such a minority of the workforce do this?If they want to keep full pay then let's contract out bin services & make an extra 600 redundant & whilst there at it look at cutting council tax by getting rid of a few more.
Did any of you watch the BBC tonight? Mike Tucker was on there this man usually comes on talking about beating the pay cuts & seems to be sure of himself well tonight he looked & sounded shell shocked as if he wanted to say where do we go know? if he was confident in the court actions he didn't show it.he thought the unions were in charge but the lies this man & his colleagues have been giving the union members has come back to bite him in the ****.the unions felt they had beaten the council they put the latest proposals to the members with two options they were thrown out by the members if they had negotiated at ACAS this wouldn't have happened.Royston came on & said the council didn't want to resort to sacking people but things had to get back to normal & they would do whatever was necessary.That should be a warning to the strikers.Why is it legal for 480 people to stop 4,320 people from going to work? that's right the unions aren't calling them all out.but how can such a minority of the workforce do this?If they want to keep full pay then let's contract out bin services & make an extra 600 redundant & whilst there at it look at cutting council tax by getting rid of a few more. loosehead

9:29pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming
[quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming loosehead

9:32pm Wed 10 Aug 11

resident in southampton east says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing resident in southampton east

9:36pm Wed 10 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

loosehead wrote:
S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming
Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them.

The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming[/p][/quote]Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them. The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government. My View From Here

9:36pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
[quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid? loosehead

9:40pm Wed 10 Aug 11

tootle says...

Who cares?

We can currently cope with the rubbish. I cannot afford a higher council tax so it is cuts to wages or cuts to services and jobs. Not my choice but it'll be the tax payers who'll pay and the workers who'll lose out not the fatcats from council or Unions.

That said there is no comparison between legitimate picketing strikers(not that i have come across any but my teenager thought it was all good fun when she saw them one day) and mindless looters and rioters. Whilst I think the strikers are wrong they aren't doing anything wrong and to compare them with looters, arsonists, stone throwers, criminals is simply uncalled for.
Who cares? We can currently cope with the rubbish. I cannot afford a higher council tax so it is cuts to wages or cuts to services and jobs. Not my choice but it'll be the tax payers who'll pay and the workers who'll lose out not the fatcats from council or Unions. That said there is no comparison between legitimate picketing strikers(not that i have come across any but my teenager thought it was all good fun when she saw them one day) and mindless looters and rioters. Whilst I think the strikers are wrong they aren't doing anything wrong and to compare them with looters, arsonists, stone throwers, criminals is simply uncalled for. tootle

9:40pm Wed 10 Aug 11

loosehead says...

My View From Here wrote:
loosehead wrote:
S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming
Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them.

The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.
Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do
[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming[/p][/quote]Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them. The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.[/p][/quote]Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do loosehead

9:54pm Wed 10 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Leave them to strike, let them watch their own colleagues be out of a job due to redundancies.

Bored of the whole thing now, just carry on striking, no-one cares any more!
I do care, apathy won't help.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Leave them to strike, let them watch their own colleagues be out of a job due to redundancies. Bored of the whole thing now, just carry on striking, no-one cares any more![/p][/quote]I do care, apathy won't help. OSPREYSAINT

10:00pm Wed 10 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

loosehead wrote:
resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?[/p][/quote]That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense. OSPREYSAINT

10:09pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MGRA says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
loosehead wrote:
resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_



together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.
your empty in the head. If he is "so loaded" why would he bother to work ??? moreover why would he do a sh*t job like the one he does ??? grow a brain and start making sense... "loaded" people dont work in councils. Thats a no-brainer.... ( embarrassed yet )
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?[/p][/quote]That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.[/p][/quote]your empty in the head. If he is "so loaded" why would he bother to work ??? moreover why would he do a sh*t job like the one he does ??? grow a brain and start making sense... "loaded" people dont work in councils. Thats a no-brainer.... ( embarrassed yet ) MGRA

10:16pm Wed 10 Aug 11

S Noss says...

MGRA wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
loosehead wrote:
resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_ together wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.
your empty in the head. If he is "so loaded" why would he bother to work ??? moreover why would he do a sh*t job like the one he does ??? grow a brain and start making sense... "loaded" people dont work in councils. Thats a no-brainer.... ( embarrassed yet )
That being said MGRA, why the hostility to those who do not want a pay cut?
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?[/p][/quote]That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.[/p][/quote]your empty in the head. If he is "so loaded" why would he bother to work ??? moreover why would he do a sh*t job like the one he does ??? grow a brain and start making sense... "loaded" people dont work in councils. Thats a no-brainer.... ( embarrassed yet )[/p][/quote]That being said MGRA, why the hostility to those who do not want a pay cut? S Noss

10:19pm Wed 10 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Just another of your usual personal insults, I will ignor that remark, yes you are right with your description about how Royston is doing his job but I am surprised it came from you, being one of his hero worshippers! Also accusing the rest of the Council of being hard up and work shy is just as astonishing. I have a colleague at work who was at school with Royston, I would love to print his opinion about him but I must resist the temptation!

Your should read you are or you're by the way
Just another of your usual personal insults, I will ignor that remark, yes you are right with your description about how Royston is doing his job but I am surprised it came from you, being one of his hero worshippers! Also accusing the rest of the Council of being hard up and work shy is just as astonishing. I have a colleague at work who was at school with Royston, I would love to print his opinion about him but I must resist the temptation! Your should read you are or you're by the way OSPREYSAINT

10:36pm Wed 10 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

MGRA wrote:
I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa
MGRA, Flies come from maggots, I wonder how long before your wish comes true?
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa[/p][/quote]MGRA, Flies come from maggots, I wonder how long before your wish comes true? OSPREYSAINT

11:50pm Wed 10 Aug 11

MGRA says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Just another of your usual personal insults, I will ignor that remark, yes you are right with your description about how Royston is doing his job but I am surprised it came from you, being one of his hero worshippers! Also accusing the rest of the Council of being hard up and work shy is just as astonishing. I have a colleague at work who was at school with Royston, I would love to print his opinion about him but I must resist the temptation!

Your should read you are or you're by the way
for your information oh empty-head.... I do not support all that Councillor Smith does. I am not a particular fan of his. I do however smell BS in the wind and it comes from you. You state he is loaded yet this is not consistant with the leader of a crummy council like southampton. I have experience with unions and can list easily the unions who genuinely support their members. The SCC dispute is purely political and if you are too stupid to realise this then fair enough. It will soon be evident for all to see that the Unions have painted themselves into a huge corner here. If its stupid o'clock where you live it certainly is not everywhere else.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: Just another of your usual personal insults, I will ignor that remark, yes you are right with your description about how Royston is doing his job but I am surprised it came from you, being one of his hero worshippers! Also accusing the rest of the Council of being hard up and work shy is just as astonishing. I have a colleague at work who was at school with Royston, I would love to print his opinion about him but I must resist the temptation! Your should read you are or you're by the way[/p][/quote]for your information oh empty-head.... I do not support all that Councillor Smith does. I am not a particular fan of his. I do however smell BS in the wind and it comes from you. You state he is loaded yet this is not consistant with the leader of a crummy council like southampton. I have experience with unions and can list easily the unions who genuinely support their members. The SCC dispute is purely political and if you are too stupid to realise this then fair enough. It will soon be evident for all to see that the Unions have painted themselves into a huge corner here. If its stupid o'clock where you live it certainly is not everywhere else. MGRA

12:08am Thu 11 Aug 11

My View From Here says...

loosehead wrote:
My View From Here wrote:
loosehead wrote:
S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming
Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them.

The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.
Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do
Loose the Department for Communities and Local Government announced in October 2010 the freezing of council tax for the following year 2011/12

http://www.communiti
es.gov.uk/news/newsr
oom/1746693. it is here for you to see.

DCLG is a Government Department, so the freezing of council tax was theirs, nothing to do with local councils
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming[/p][/quote]Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them. The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.[/p][/quote]Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do[/p][/quote]Loose the Department for Communities and Local Government announced in October 2010 the freezing of council tax for the following year 2011/12 http://www.communiti es.gov.uk/news/newsr oom/1746693. it is here for you to see. DCLG is a Government Department, so the freezing of council tax was theirs, nothing to do with local councils My View From Here

8:42am Thu 11 Aug 11

Norwegian Saint says...

"My ol mans a dustman,
he wears a dustmans hat...."
Well he used to but lost his job by striking and cant afford one anymore.
"My ol mans a dustman, he wears a dustmans hat...." Well he used to but lost his job by striking and cant afford one anymore. Norwegian Saint

9:53am Thu 11 Aug 11

loosehead says...

My View From Here wrote:
loosehead wrote:
My View From Here wrote:
loosehead wrote:
S Noss wrote:
I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.
Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming
Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them.

The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.
Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do
Loose the Department for Communities and Local Government announced in October 2010 the freezing of council tax for the following year 2011/12

http://www.communiti

es.gov.uk/news/newsr

oom/1746693. it is here for you to see.

DCLG is a Government Department, so the freezing of council tax was theirs, nothing to do with local councils
So next April the tories set the budget then if the people of this city are stupid enough they vote in Labour the same Labour who have already lied about their policies then?
[quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]My View From Here[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]S Noss[/bold] wrote: I went out on strike and picketed for the first time today since working for the council – an organisation I have been part of for 7 years. Though it seems hard for the majority of "sack ‘em all” commentators to grasp, this is not about personal greed or wanting a day in the sun, people are thinking about the bigger picture. There are many more cuts come over the coming years and the ultimatum issued to council workers this year will not, I am sure, be the last. So, where does it end and how do we make it clear that it goes no further? I went on strike because I have witnessed the slow but steady erosion of public services at first hand and decided that I wanted to make my objection to this clearer. Many of my colleagues work over and above their hours to provide a reliable and competent service to the people they deal with, and I think that it is a crying shame that rather than vent your spleen on our government (both this and the previous one) bailing out bankers or engaging in unwarranted military excursions, you call those who don't want to take a pay cut "greedy". Where are your principles? If it is true that we judge people by our own standards, I can only conclude from many of these comments that yours are woefully inadequate.[/p][/quote]Snoss so what you want to wait for a Labour council who will get rid of 800 more of you.who will cut your pay ,who will put up your council tax (so a double hit) & have pay freezes.this vote today was ludicrous this is the best deal for saving jobs your going to get but you all seem so filled with lies by the unions & the left wing you can't see it wake up the day of the contractor is coming[/p][/quote]Even a Labour council cannot increase the council tax, Eric Pickles would simply cap them. The freezing of council is not the choice of the council, its been handed by central Government.[/p][/quote]Your wrong the council tax freeze was for one to two years so they can put it into the calculations for next year onwards & it was the head of the Labour party in Southampton who said they were going to do it.the freezing of pay is what the Labour party said it would do[/p][/quote]Loose the Department for Communities and Local Government announced in October 2010 the freezing of council tax for the following year 2011/12 http://www.communiti es.gov.uk/news/newsr oom/1746693. it is here for you to see. DCLG is a Government Department, so the freezing of council tax was theirs, nothing to do with local councils[/p][/quote]So next April the tories set the budget then if the people of this city are stupid enough they vote in Labour the same Labour who have already lied about their policies then? loosehead

10:07am Thu 11 Aug 11

loosehead says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
loosehead wrote:
resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_



together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.
Osprey your becoming a member of the Southy loony party.the last proposal put forward by YES the TORIES after ACAS which the unions wouldn't even negotiate & come to an amicable settlement has now been seen as the way forward with a few adjustments.the unions wouldn't have put this to their members if they didn't think it was a good offer.also how can 480 people against seemingly their unions wishes vote to continue action which 4,800 have to abide by?I don't want to see them sacked but as my view has pointed out council tax rises are a no no for two years ( Thank God) so this is the best they're going to get from either the Tory's or Labour & I feel now might be the time to consider giving the work to contractors.The saying you make your bed lie in it comes to mind,listen to people when the contractors come to empty bins there's no don't empty my bin scab or I'm on the side of the workers so leave my bin alone.most people are glad to see them & thank them for doing the job so sorry but the time of the contractor could be coming if these people don't wake up.Osprey once again the council have shown they're willing to listen & change as long as they can keep as many in jobs & cover the shortfall it's a pity it's taken until now for the union conveners to do so
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?[/p][/quote]That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.[/p][/quote]Osprey your becoming a member of the Southy loony party.the last proposal put forward by YES the TORIES after ACAS which the unions wouldn't even negotiate & come to an amicable settlement has now been seen as the way forward with a few adjustments.the unions wouldn't have put this to their members if they didn't think it was a good offer.also how can 480 people against seemingly their unions wishes vote to continue action which 4,800 have to abide by?I don't want to see them sacked but as my view has pointed out council tax rises are a no no for two years ( Thank God) so this is the best they're going to get from either the Tory's or Labour & I feel now might be the time to consider giving the work to contractors.The saying you make your bed lie in it comes to mind,listen to people when the contractors come to empty bins there's no don't empty my bin scab or I'm on the side of the workers so leave my bin alone.most people are glad to see them & thank them for doing the job so sorry but the time of the contractor could be coming if these people don't wake up.Osprey once again the council have shown they're willing to listen & change as long as they can keep as many in jobs & cover the shortfall it's a pity it's taken until now for the union conveners to do so loosehead

10:10am Thu 11 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
MGRA wrote:
I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa
MGRA, Flies come from maggots, I wonder how long before your wish comes true?
Sorry MGRA that was a wind up too far, I am not an empty head, it is absolutely full of nonesense! Just wish you would stop supplying the amunition and I would stop responding. A new thread has started lets leave this one be. Please, keep to the thread and leave out the accusations of people being idiots, they are not, they just have a different point of view to which they are entitled.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: I would love to be a fly on the wall at union HQ,,, they are up the creak on this one.... talk about stupid.... oh I would love to see their faces. Royston must be cracking open the ( modestly priced ) bubbly tonight.... he now has all the moral high ground, not just a big slice of it, the unions are now mute effectively because no matter what they say now no one will listen, just leaves the puppets to carry on setting fire to their wooden boat at sea to keep warm.... so very funny and so very soon to be sacked , the workshy lazy ****ards..... ( bit harsh !? ) , naaaaa[/p][/quote]MGRA, Flies come from maggots, I wonder how long before your wish comes true?[/p][/quote]Sorry MGRA that was a wind up too far, I am not an empty head, it is absolutely full of nonesense! Just wish you would stop supplying the amunition and I would stop responding. A new thread has started lets leave this one be. Please, keep to the thread and leave out the accusations of people being idiots, they are not, they just have a different point of view to which they are entitled. OSPREYSAINT

10:15am Thu 11 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

loosehead wrote:
OSPREYSAINT wrote:
loosehead wrote:
resident in southampton east wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_




together
wrote:
How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.
would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing
Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?
That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.
Osprey your becoming a member of the Southy loony party.the last proposal put forward by YES the TORIES after ACAS which the unions wouldn't even negotiate & come to an amicable settlement has now been seen as the way forward with a few adjustments.the unions wouldn't have put this to their members if they didn't think it was a good offer.also how can 480 people against seemingly their unions wishes vote to continue action which 4,800 have to abide by?I don't want to see them sacked but as my view has pointed out council tax rises are a no no for two years ( Thank God) so this is the best they're going to get from either the Tory's or Labour & I feel now might be the time to consider giving the work to contractors.The saying you make your bed lie in it comes to mind,listen to people when the contractors come to empty bins there's no don't empty my bin scab or I'm on the side of the workers so leave my bin alone.most people are glad to see them & thank them for doing the job so sorry but the time of the contractor could be coming if these people don't wake up.Osprey once again the council have shown they're willing to listen & change as long as they can keep as many in jobs & cover the shortfall it's a pity it's taken until now for the union conveners to do so
Loosehead you are absolutely right, a new thread has started, move on. Mind you I have been having a lot of difficulty posting on this web site I may give it a miss, not sure if it is at my end or theirs, but I keep getting error messages.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]resident in southampton east[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: How disappointing. How long before they can sack the strikers and replace them? Why should residents have to put up with this? If the relationship has broken down irrevocably with these workers, to the extent that they will not accept the council proposals, then sadly time to call it a day, and offer their jobs to people who would be grateful for them. This should be done as soon as the council are legally able to.[/p][/quote]would the councillors take a pay cut no but they have just got a 20% rise what do they do nothing[/p][/quote]Get your facts right .the Tory's when they got power took a pay cut.an independent review said the councillors were paid to much but Royston wasn't paid enough & should have a pay rise which he has refused so where/when was this pay rise paid?[/p][/quote]That doesn't make Royston a hero, he is probably so loaded it wouldn't make any difference. What is the obsession with you people to get your fellow human beings sacked or treated like dirt? The only reason you are bleating is because it is an inconvenience to you. Put more pressure on the Council to come up with a reasonable settlement, you know that makes sense.[/p][/quote]Osprey your becoming a member of the Southy loony party.the last proposal put forward by YES the TORIES after ACAS which the unions wouldn't even negotiate & come to an amicable settlement has now been seen as the way forward with a few adjustments.the unions wouldn't have put this to their members if they didn't think it was a good offer.also how can 480 people against seemingly their unions wishes vote to continue action which 4,800 have to abide by?I don't want to see them sacked but as my view has pointed out council tax rises are a no no for two years ( Thank God) so this is the best they're going to get from either the Tory's or Labour & I feel now might be the time to consider giving the work to contractors.The saying you make your bed lie in it comes to mind,listen to people when the contractors come to empty bins there's no don't empty my bin scab or I'm on the side of the workers so leave my bin alone.most people are glad to see them & thank them for doing the job so sorry but the time of the contractor could be coming if these people don't wake up.Osprey once again the council have shown they're willing to listen & change as long as they can keep as many in jobs & cover the shortfall it's a pity it's taken until now for the union conveners to do so[/p][/quote]Loosehead you are absolutely right, a new thread has started, move on. Mind you I have been having a lot of difficulty posting on this web site I may give it a miss, not sure if it is at my end or theirs, but I keep getting error messages. OSPREYSAINT

11:04am Thu 11 Aug 11

Dusty says...

MGRA wrote:
Dusty wrote:
waltons11 wrote:
Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!!
Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.
so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.
So if i take a job as a dustman and except the T&C, i am greedy , how strange.

You make no sense at all
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dusty[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waltons11[/bold] wrote: Unbelievable!! When will this ever end?? I am just sick of the strikes, the noise of the pickets in the town, the mess - just to satisfy people's greed. Cuts have to be made - get over it!![/p][/quote]Greed? You define greed by not excepting a pay cut, how strange.[/p][/quote]so do I. they are greedy because their T&Cs were already way above private sector. Their labour party caused this mess and they want others to pay for it.... thats stupidity, greed or both.[/p][/quote]So if i take a job as a dustman and except the T&C, i am greedy , how strange. You make no sense at all Dusty

1:37pm Thu 11 Aug 11

afka_bill says...

i think royston should royally shaft those ungrateful strikers by going ok you can have your origional t&c then when they return to work roysten should say that they are being made redundant to pay for the extra wages. thaat will teach them for being greedy cus they will have nothing.
i think royston should royally shaft those ungrateful strikers by going ok you can have your origional t&c then when they return to work roysten should say that they are being made redundant to pay for the extra wages. thaat will teach them for being greedy cus they will have nothing. afka_bill

3:53pm Thu 11 Aug 11

Bitternegirl says...

mummsie wrote:
Bitternegirl wrote: I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs. Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to. My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said. In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax.
We both think the same Bitternegirl and i bet a **** sight others will do also! Shall i or sharn't i pay the Council Tax this month or not? mmmmm! Will certainly make them wait for it !
Yes Mummsie, if we all withheld our council tax, they would soon do something about it. Now, let's think about cancelling the direct debit.
[quote][p][bold]mummsie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Bitternegirl[/bold] wrote: I say, give the workers what they want and ask the union members to then decide which 400 people have to lose their jobs. Get into the real world all you workers. Be thankful you have a job to go to. My husband had no choice, he was made redundant. If you had asked all his colleagues what they would prefer, a minor may cut, or keep their jobs. I know what they would have said. In the meantime, we will do your work for you, take our own rubbish to the tip. How much will we get paid to do it? Nothing, and not even a refund in the council tax.[/p][/quote]We both think the same Bitternegirl and i bet a **** sight others will do also! Shall i or sharn't i pay the Council Tax this month or not? mmmmm! Will certainly make them wait for it ![/p][/quote]Yes Mummsie, if we all withheld our council tax, they would soon do something about it. Now, let's think about cancelling the direct debit. Bitternegirl

9:50pm Thu 11 Aug 11

OSPREYSAINT says...

Mummsie join the refusenics, refuse to pay your Council Tax until your bins are emptied, I would too but I have already payed in full in advance. Don't suppose I could get a refund?
Mummsie join the refusenics, refuse to pay your Council Tax until your bins are emptied, I would too but I have already payed in full in advance. Don't suppose I could get a refund? OSPREYSAINT

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree