Commuters take on cross city challenge (From Daily Echo)

The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

geoff51 wrote:
The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff, no-one broke any laws of the land in this test.

geoff51 wrote:
The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff thats just not on. I can do that trip in 10 minutes on a good day on the racing bikes, and I dont need to ride on pavements, bust lights etc.
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This isnt the first time you've come out with that rubbish. In rush hour the only ones making headway are the two wheelers (powered and pedalled), accept it.

use your favourite search engine to search for "How London bike hire users can cut the scheme's carbon emissions"

bike hire/share scheme

Dan Kerins wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff, no-one broke any laws of the land in this test.

Well that will be a first for most commuting cyclist who believe that the rules of the road and good manners do not apply to them

downfader wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff thats just not on. I can do that trip in 10 minutes on a good day on the racing bikes, and I dont need to ride on pavements, bust lights etc. . This isnt the first time you've come out with that rubbish. In rush hour the only ones making headway are the two wheelers (powered and pedalled), accept it.

Please read my previous post and I will add to you that you are in a minority if you obey all the rules of the road.
The cycling fraternity are in my opinion some of the rudest, arrogant, self centred group of road users, with a superior attitude that they are doing wonders for the environment and should therefore not have to obey the rules of the road and good manners

Surprised the bus traveller managed to come 3rd, given some of the awful bus services in this city.
Must have been one of the better routes!

Having been cut up several times today by a cyclist who was v. brave without a helmet on the inside of my car, and a van in front opened the passenger door in stationery traffic to drop someone off, how she managed to stop in time is beyond me.....

If any of cyclists (and I have a bike also myself but haven't used it much lately admittedly) google the woman who was crushed to death by a cement lorry who didn't see her undertaking, then you would think again. This could have ended badly for this woman today, thank god it didn't. She swore at the van but it wasn't their fault whatsoever.. .undertake at your peril...

there are many car drivers and motorbikes who are inconsiderate too obviously but this woman was soooo vulnerable and could have easily been killed. What irked me is she carried on doing it all the way down Hill Lane after her near miss!

not suprised bike came first, all the roadworks are a nightmare plus we're getting ever more gridlocked. Cycling across common is great, again as long as it's done considerately :) it's healthier too. Hopefully I'll get mine out again but I'm def a fairweather cyclist and a very nervous one on these roads!

Speaking as a typical Echo reader, I would just like to say that some cyclists once annoyed me, and having personally witnessed some fraction of a fraction of a percentile of all cyclists, feel well-positioned to know exactly how every single cyclist in the world behaves. On top of that, I sometimes find a bus running a bit late, from which I have extrapolated that all Southampton bus services are rubbish. I haven't yet forged an opinion on motorists, but no doubt I'll be back here later, claiming car drivers gave me Bad AIDS or something, and from there I'll probably find a reason to hate on pedestrians, too, because I am singularly unable to find a single positive thing about my life, despite living in a level of abject splendour that would make a Pharoah blush. Blessings? I'm too busy moaning about my wheelie bins to count those.

I forgot to add that, as a taxpayer, and given that there's almost certainly a remote possibility that perhaps some public money may have been spent on this, I find outrageous that blah blah blah sense of self-entitled rage blah blah hate everything blah blah blah. Rinse, repeat until in early grave.

Georgem wrote:
I forgot to add that, as a taxpayer, and given that there's almost certainly a remote possibility that perhaps some public money may have been spent on this, I find outrageous that blah blah blah sense of self-entitled rage blah blah hate everything blah blah blah. Rinse, repeat until in early grave.

calm down dear they are only opinions..... you'll fall off your bike! you're being just as bad stereotyping people who post on here ;)

I would love to know what 'bad AIDS' is though... please elaborate!? is there a strain of the AIDS virus that is good then? I assume you're referring to the virus AIDS and not marital aids... if the latter I will bow to your obviously superior knowledge....

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

Georgem wrote:
I forgot to add that, as a taxpayer, and given that there's almost certainly a remote possibility that perhaps some public money may have been spent on this, I find outrageous that blah blah blah sense of self-entitled rage blah blah hate everything blah blah blah. Rinse, repeat until in early grave.

calm down dear they are only opinions..... you'll fall off your bike! you're being just as bad stereotyping people who post on here ;)

I would love to know what 'bad AIDS' is though... please elaborate!? is there a strain of the AIDS virus that is good then? I assume you're referring to the virus AIDS and not marital aids... if the latter I will bow to your obviously superior knowledge....

I care so little about your thoughts on this matter, I almost fell into a coma. Inb4 'you cared enough to reply' - it took all of 20 seconds

geoff51 wrote:

downfader wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff thats just not on. I can do that trip in 10 minutes on a good day on the racing bikes, and I dont need to ride on pavements, bust lights etc. . This isnt the first time you've come out with that rubbish. In rush hour the only ones making headway are the two wheelers (powered and pedalled), accept it.

Please read my previous post and I will add to you that you are in a minority if you obey all the rules of the road. The cycling fraternity are in my opinion some of the rudest, arrogant, self centred group of road users, with a superior attitude that they are doing wonders for the environment and should therefore not have to obey the rules of the road and good manners

Geoff, dont be silly now. Are you psychic? How do you know someone thinks they're doing "wonders for the environment", LMAO!??
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Your two posts are the most incredulous posts on here.

geoff51 wrote:

Dan Kerins wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff, no-one broke any laws of the land in this test.

Well that will be a first for most commuting cyclist who believe that the rules of the road and good manners do not apply to them

Your a bit of a sore loser aren't you.
Not everyone on a bike break rules/laws. I commute 7.5 miles each way, lit up, helmet on, reflectors, obeying the signs and lights.
If anything, us cyclists get just as much dangerous manoeuvres from the menace motorists who over take cyclists and then turn left and pull out in front then decide to do only 5 mph cause they don't know how to drive.
Anyway you only remember the bad cyclists because you can recall swearing at them, but do you praise a good cyclists to remember them also, no. The human brain is flawed with this error. So before you try and tar the whole cyclist community, I would suggest you get a cup of tea and relax before making such ridiculous accusations, it only makes YOU look stupid.

NorcoAtomik wrote:

geoff51 wrote:

Dan Kerins wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff, no-one broke any laws of the land in this test.

Well that will be a first for most commuting cyclist who believe that the rules of the road and good manners do not apply to them

Your a bit of a sore loser aren't you.
Not everyone on a bike break rules/laws. I commute 7.5 miles each way, lit up, helmet on, reflectors, obeying the signs and lights.
If anything, us cyclists get just as much dangerous manoeuvres from the menace motorists who over take cyclists and then turn left and pull out in front then decide to do only 5 mph cause they don't know how to drive.
Anyway you only remember the bad cyclists because you can recall swearing at them, but do you praise a good cyclists to remember them also, no. The human brain is flawed with this error. So before you try and tar the whole cyclist community, I would suggest you get a cup of tea and relax before making such ridiculous accusations, it only makes YOU look stupid.

Exactly. We don't notice the competent cyclists, by design. Why would we? Similarly, I don't recall ever thinking "I admire the way that motorist behind me is maintaining a safe distance"; I just remember the tailgating arseholes.

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Having been cut up several times today by a cyclist who was v. brave without a helmet on the inside of my car, and a van in front opened the passenger door in stationery traffic to drop someone off, how she managed to stop in time is beyond me..... If any of cyclists (and I have a bike also myself but haven't used it much lately admittedly) google the woman who was crushed to death by a cement lorry who didn't see her undertaking, then you would think again. This could have ended badly for this woman today, thank god it didn't. She swore at the van but it wasn't their fault whatsoever.. .undertake at your peril... there are many car drivers and motorbikes who are inconsiderate too obviously but this woman was soooo vulnerable and could have easily been killed. What irked me is she carried on doing it all the way down Hill Lane after her near miss! not suprised bike came first, all the roadworks are a nightmare plus we're getting ever more gridlocked. Cycling across common is great, again as long as it's done considerately :) it's healthier too. Hopefully I'll get mine out again but I'm def a fairweather cyclist and a very nervous one on these roads!

A couple of points come to mind.. the highway code clearly states to watch for cyclists filtering on both the left and the right, so the passenger opening the door was in the wrong as far as your comment described there.
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When you say "cut up", do you mean the normal ebb and flow of busy, slow moving traffic? In that situation its often better to hold back in the car if you're simply going to be rejoining the back of another queue. This is something the IAM have taught over the years.
.
On helmets, it is important for all road users to realise there are limitations in both the properties it is designed for and the research/science around them. You are statistically very unlikely to hit your head whilst riding.
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Cement lorry? There have been about 17 deaths last year involving large vehicles. I completely agree cyclists need to hold back and not undertake large vehicles, however many of those deaths have since been proven to have been the driver's fault (Elidh Cairns' case for example the driver just drove over the top of her and was p***ed; Patel's case iirc the driver attempted to overtake on a corner through a green light, etc).
.
The best thing any cyclist can do is read the cycle training literature, or even better book a National Standards training course (if you're under 16 you can often get free training on a Bikeability course). This will improve confidence, iron out riding problems - and importantly for large vehicle issues teach you when, where and how to filter safely.
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Hmm security words: also-slow LOL!

I find it funny when people say "I was once cut up by a cyclist, ergo, I assign that behaviour to ALL cyclists." It's really no different to saying "I was once mugged by a black man, ergo, all black men must be criminals."

(Note to anyone about to accuse me of racism: actually read the post)

geoff51 wrote:

downfader wrote:

geoff51 wrote: The cyclist probably won because they all ignore traffic lights, use pedestrian crossings and pavements with no regard to the rightful users and generally disregard the rules of the road and good manners as well. Next time this trial is run if ever make it a fair contest

Geoff thats just not on. I can do that trip in 10 minutes on a good day on the racing bikes, and I dont need to ride on pavements, bust lights etc. . This isnt the first time you've come out with that rubbish. In rush hour the only ones making headway are the two wheelers (powered and pedalled), accept it.

Please read my previous post and I will add to you that you are in a minority if you obey all the rules of the road. The cycling fraternity are in my opinion some of the rudest, arrogant, self centred group of road users, with a superior attitude that they are doing wonders for the environment and should therefore not have to obey the rules of the road and good manners

But what you have said could apply to any group of motorists or any group of road users, including pedestrians. Is this not a case of you seeing what you want to see, rather than the truth of the matter.

I am a cyclist, bus user and a car user.

This race looks a bit biased because there is a nice route for cycles from the General to town.

Now if the race was from say Thornhill to town the result would have been different.

Georgem wrote:
Speaking as a typical Echo reader, I would just like to say that some cyclists once annoyed me, and having personally witnessed some fraction of a fraction of a percentile of all cyclists, feel well-positioned to know exactly how every single cyclist in the world behaves. On top of that, I sometimes find a bus running a bit late, from which I have extrapolated that all Southampton bus services are rubbish. I haven't yet forged an opinion on motorists, but no doubt I'll be back here later, claiming car drivers gave me Bad AIDS or something, and from there I'll probably find a reason to hate on pedestrians, too, because I am singularly unable to find a single positive thing about my life, despite living in a level of abject splendour that would make a Pharoah blush. Blessings? I'm too busy moaning about my wheelie bins to count those.

Thanks for your posts GeorgeM, brings some much needed humour after Geoff51's absolutely pathetic comments!

downfader wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Having been cut up several times today by a cyclist who was v. brave without a helmet on the inside of my car, and a van in front opened the passenger door in stationery traffic to drop someone off, how she managed to stop in time is beyond me..... If any of cyclists (and I have a bike also myself but haven't used it much lately admittedly) google the woman who was crushed to death by a cement lorry who didn't see her undertaking, then you would think again. This could have ended badly for this woman today, thank god it didn't. She swore at the van but it wasn't their fault whatsoever.. .undertake at your peril... there are many car drivers and motorbikes who are inconsiderate too obviously but this woman was soooo vulnerable and could have easily been killed. What irked me is she carried on doing it all the way down Hill Lane after her near miss! not suprised bike came first, all the roadworks are a nightmare plus we're getting ever more gridlocked. Cycling across common is great, again as long as it's done considerately :) it's healthier too. Hopefully I'll get mine out again but I'm def a fairweather cyclist and a very nervous one on these roads!

A couple of points come to mind.. the highway code clearly states to watch for cyclists filtering on both the left and the right, so the passenger opening the door was in the wrong as far as your comment described there.
.
When you say "cut up", do you mean the normal ebb and flow of busy, slow moving traffic? In that situation its often better to hold back in the car if you're simply going to be rejoining the back of another queue. This is something the IAM have taught over the years.
.
On helmets, it is important for all road users to realise there are limitations in both the properties it is designed for and the research/science around them. You are statistically very unlikely to hit your head whilst riding.
.
Cement lorry? There have been about 17 deaths last year involving large vehicles. I completely agree cyclists need to hold back and not undertake large vehicles, however many of those deaths have since been proven to have been the driver's fault (Elidh Cairns' case for example the driver just drove over the top of her and was p***ed; Patel's case iirc the driver attempted to overtake on a corner through a green light, etc).
.
The best thing any cyclist can do is read the cycle training literature, or even better book a National Standards training course (if you're under 16 you can often get free training on a Bikeability course). This will improve confidence, iron out riding problems - and importantly for large vehicle issues teach you when, where and how to filter safely.
.
Hmm security words: also-slow LOL!

Car drivers have to watch yes, hence me seeing her doh!

I was also watching her weavingin and out nearly got hit about five tmes. However, as I said they are vulnerable. Bike users are strongly advised not to undercut vehicles, and particularly to watch for vehicles turning left. (this is what happened with the cement lorry). Whilst the lorry may also have been at fault, if I am on my bike and for the same of waiting a couple of seconds making sure I'm safe then I'm ruddy well going to do it!! This wasn't a go at cyclists, as I said I like to travel on a bike myself. However, I do abide by the laws of the road. That includes the right equipment.

See here for rules for cyclists on the Highway Code here, and note equpment/lights/ridi
ng on pavements/traffic signals (my worst bug bear with other cyclists...)
http://www.bagitup.o
rg.uk/files/HIGHWAY CODE Rules for cyclists.pd

Everyone has a duty to ride/travel/drive safely on the roads, that includes car and cyclists, motorbikes. Cyclists can prevent half the things that happen by simply being careful, and not undertaking, particularly large vehicles as this one was a very large van with high sides. She was going far too fast to stop in time and wasn't observing what was going on ahead.

I totally disagree (having worked in the Mortuary office at the SGH) cyclists heads are VERY likely to be what kills them. A good quality cycle helmet and I mean good quality, mine cost £90. can mean the difference between living and dying....

freemantlegirl2 wrote:

downfader wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote: Having been cut up several times today by a cyclist who was v. brave without a helmet on the inside of my car, and a van in front opened the passenger door in stationery traffic to drop someone off, how she managed to stop in time is beyond me..... If any of cyclists (and I have a bike also myself but haven't used it much lately admittedly) google the woman who was crushed to death by a cement lorry who didn't see her undertaking, then you would think again. This could have ended badly for this woman today, thank god it didn't. She swore at the van but it wasn't their fault whatsoever.. .undertake at your peril... there are many car drivers and motorbikes who are inconsiderate too obviously but this woman was soooo vulnerable and could have easily been killed. What irked me is she carried on doing it all the way down Hill Lane after her near miss! not suprised bike came first, all the roadworks are a nightmare plus we're getting ever more gridlocked. Cycling across common is great, again as long as it's done considerately :) it's healthier too. Hopefully I'll get mine out again but I'm def a fairweather cyclist and a very nervous one on these roads!

A couple of points come to mind.. the highway code clearly states to watch for cyclists filtering on both the left and the right, so the passenger opening the door was in the wrong as far as your comment described there. . When you say "cut up", do you mean the normal ebb and flow of busy, slow moving traffic? In that situation its often better to hold back in the car if you're simply going to be rejoining the back of another queue. This is something the IAM have taught over the years. . On helmets, it is important for all road users to realise there are limitations in both the properties it is designed for and the research/science around them. You are statistically very unlikely to hit your head whilst riding. . Cement lorry? There have been about 17 deaths last year involving large vehicles. I completely agree cyclists need to hold back and not undertake large vehicles, however many of those deaths have since been proven to have been the driver's fault (Elidh Cairns' case for example the driver just drove over the top of her and was p***ed; Patel's case iirc the driver attempted to overtake on a corner through a green light, etc). . The best thing any cyclist can do is read the cycle training literature, or even better book a National Standards training course (if you're under 16 you can often get free training on a Bikeability course). This will improve confidence, iron out riding problems - and importantly for large vehicle issues teach you when, where and how to filter safely. . Hmm security words: also-slow LOL!

Car drivers have to watch yes, hence me seeing her doh! I was also watching her weavingin and out nearly got hit about five tmes. However, as I said they are vulnerable. Bike users are strongly advised not to undercut vehicles, and particularly to watch for vehicles turning left. (this is what happened with the cement lorry). Whilst the lorry may also have been at fault, if I am on my bike and for the same of waiting a couple of seconds making sure I'm safe then I'm ruddy well going to do it!! This wasn't a go at cyclists, as I said I like to travel on a bike myself. However, I do abide by the laws of the road. That includes the right equipment. See here for rules for cyclists on the Highway Code here, and note equpment/lights/ridi ng on pavements/traffic signals (my worst bug bear with other cyclists...) http://www.bagitup.o rg.uk/files/HIGHWAY CODE Rules for cyclists.pd Everyone has a duty to ride/travel/drive safely on the roads, that includes car and cyclists, motorbikes. Cyclists can prevent half the things that happen by simply being careful, and not undertaking, particularly large vehicles as this one was a very large van with high sides. She was going far too fast to stop in time and wasn't observing what was going on ahead. I totally disagree (having worked in the Mortuary office at the SGH) cyclists heads are VERY likely to be what kills them. A good quality cycle helmet and I mean good quality, mine cost £90. can mean the difference between living and dying....

S'alright, wasnt having a go, just offering an opinion incase newbies might read, or those that dont understand cycling. :-)
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According to evidence presented to the Northern Ireland Assembly on their proposed helmet law it seems you're 19,000 times more likely to suffer from cancer than suffer a head injury on the road. :-o
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The majority of cyclists hit and killed have been from internal body injuries. You would have to ride an average of 20 million miles, or for 500,000 years before being on the end of a fatal collision by bike.
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My helmet cost about £60, I bought an EN1078 tested one by MET, the most basic of the standards, but it keeps the bugs out of my hair and the sun off my face when I ride. The important thing is not the cost but the standard, even then the effects are ambiguous in the event of collision.
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Out of interest what was your job in the mortuary? I used to vaguely know one of the Morticians a few years back... well I say a few it was more like 15 *blush*

Someone once told me that a cycling helmet was the difference between taking a few Nurofen, and learning to walk again...

Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists.
Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are.
Wake up and join the real world!

geoff51 wrote:
Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

Thanks I will.
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Oh wait, that wasnt a compliment was it...
;-)

downfader wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

Thanks I will. . Oh wait, that wasnt a compliment was it... ;-)

Most definitely not a compliment!

geoff51 wrote:
Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

And your real world is?

Headgardener wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

And your real world is?

Sitting on the web moaning about cyclists it seems, LMAO!

Headgardener wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

And your real world is?

When you pay for it you get to use it if its free you abuse it.
You work it out

geoff51 wrote:

Headgardener wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Now all you cycling bigots have answered my posts with insults and vitriol, I rest my case as you have just backed up my opinion of your superior attitude towards the rest of the public, be it pedestrians or motorists. Go back to patting each other on the back and congratulating yourself as to what a wonderful, ecologically superb member of the human race you are. Wake up and join the real world!

And your real world is?

When you pay for it you get to use it if its free you abuse it. You work it out

What exactly are you paying for, LOL!? ;-P
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Seriously though, cyclists dont get a free ride on the roads. They pay income tax, council tax, VAT and such just like the rest of the populas, which in the main is where the funding actually comes from for road building and maintenance.
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Vehicle Excise Duty, even as reported by The Economist magazine, doesnt go very far. Its only £5.5bn. Fuel tax and vat on fuel is only about £24bn, infact around £50bn has to be found from the general taxation to plug the hole that is caused by the problems caused by motoring and motorists. Thats not an anti-motoring situation, just a reflection of fact.
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Actually, I genuinely feel sorry for you. What is so bad in your life that you need to pick on the most innocuous of minority groups, and one that actually benefits non-participants?