Hampshire MP calls for an end to selling booze at ‘pocket-money prices’ (From Daily Echo)

Are these figures really that "shocking"? It has long been accepted that Alcohol use has been the leader amongst Drug abuse with the under 21's in most of the Western World - particularly in the US and the UK. Alcohol plays a massive part in Taxation and the night time economy and therefore negates any real Government desire to tackle the problems caused by it. The upshot is a fixation with other drugs which impact far less on the nations health and services.

Then put some PROPER coppers on the streets.
They don't care because they know they won't get caught.

one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

southy wrote:
one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

Doesn't work in the US, why would it work here?

Yes these figures are shocking!

All you have to do is drive around ANY council estate or kids play park on a friday / saturday night to see all the kids swigging from their cans and bottles.

Why have they only spoken to 1000 kids? what about all the others?

1,000 children over a 5 year period equates to 4 per week!

As Gorf rightly states, you can usually see more than that all in one place at any given time.

Ken Hutchinson wrote:

southy wrote:
one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

Doesn't work in the US, why would it work here?

it will take a very different political view. theres is a great need to change in this country. and most off our problems stem back 20 to 30 years ago.
if you go back to the 70's and look at what use to happen back then, you could not get into a night club if you was under 21 and some clubs require you to be a member like the old after-eight club in shirley. the reason why clubs use to say 21 years old, was because it gave that bit of a lee-way for the few that did make it though that was between 18-21 with the drinking laws. the 15 to 18 years olds can no longer be trusted when it comes to drinking.

southy wrote:
one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

Dude. Not going to work. That is the reason the problem is so bad. You restrict it even more, the temptation grows.

Other places in the world don't have such a high restriction, and they have no problems.

Simple way of looking at this.

De-restrict it, then let the kids screw themselves up, and then the next generation of kids will think twice about getting totally ruined.

Once people learn the effects without being told or hassled, it should solve the problem as these kids will tell their kids not to do it etc etc.

It'll be messy for a few years while people learn, but the end result should be a good one in the sense people won't abuse it because they have discovered the effects.

Ta

Andy

I've spent a couple of minutes thinking about this problem while eating my lunch... What about dealing with it in a different way...

1) Increase the price of alcohol and inforce the premises that supply alcohol. Make it mandatory for everyone to produce ID for the sale of alcohol. Those premises that supply alcohol to under aged people should have their licenses permanently revoked and they should be fined an appropriately large sum of money to make them think twice... £50,000 should suffice.

2) Target the parents... those that give their kids alcohol or let them consume it should publically shamed, and the police and courts should then issue a fine to again make them think twice... £5,000 should do it.

3) Admittances to A&E - Breathalise everyone admitted with injurys. If they are as a result of alcohol, don't treat them until they have provided means for payment. If they refuse, call security and have them forcably ejected from the hospital.

The only way to stop these people from doing something is to hit them hard - where it hurts - in their pockets!

Comments? Suggestions?

Shoong wrote:
Then put some PROPER coppers on the streets. They don't care because they know they won't get caught.

I dont know what you mean by PROPER coppers? People who write on here seem to think that there is a policeman round every corner and down every cul-de-sac. Get with the programme; there are not. In any case, the council tax payers of this parish could not afford to pay for it if there were and neither would anybody want it; they would all be complaining about harassment if the police enforced every law that there was.

Reality check required on your part.

soton-mike80 wrote:
I've spent a couple of minutes thinking about this problem while eating my lunch... What about dealing with it in a different way...

1) Increase the price of alcohol and inforce the premises that supply alcohol. Make it mandatory for everyone to produce ID for the sale of alcohol. Those premises that supply alcohol to under aged people should have their licenses permanently revoked and they should be fined an appropriately large sum of money to make them think twice... £50,000 should suffice.

2) Target the parents... those that give their kids alcohol or let them consume it should publically shamed, and the police and courts should then issue a fine to again make them think twice... £5,000 should do it.

3) Admittances to A&E - Breathalise everyone admitted with injurys. If they are as a result of alcohol, don't treat them until they have provided means for payment. If they refuse, call security and have them forcably ejected from the hospital.

The only way to stop these people from doing something is to hit them hard - where it hurts - in their pockets!

Comments? Suggestions?

Not a chance.

1) Why should an 'of age' person have to pay more booze because of a problem not caused by them.

2) The section of society that issues its kids with legally purchased alcohol is clearly in need of some assistance. Perhaps we need to identify why they are trying to get their kids out of the house with a bottle in the first place. Ashaming them probably won't work because they clearly dont have any morals, and fining them wont help because the chances are they cannot afford to pay the fine anyway.

3) Seriously?? I don't think so. I'm almost certain the WHO would have something to say about depriving a person of health care. I must admit that it probably is annoying to see people in A&E on a saturday night if you are there and waiting for treatment as a sober person, but such is life. You can't judge anyone like that. You could meet an intoxicated victim of violence. The fact that they are in A&E is not necessarily their fault is it.

As far as i'm concerned the problem has always existed, and it's possibly got worse because of the way society treats the younger generation, or it could be caused by sheer boredom. The fact is, until the cause of the problem is identified, the problem will always exist

Donald2000 wrote:

Shoong wrote:
Then put some PROPER coppers on the streets. They don't care because they know they won't get caught.

I dont know what you mean by PROPER coppers? People who write on here seem to think that there is a policeman round every corner and down every cul-de-sac. Get with the programme; there are not. In any case, the council tax payers of this parish could not afford to pay for it if there were and neither would anybody want it; they would all be complaining about harassment if the police enforced every law that there was.

Reality check required on your part.

What I mean by proper coppers is getting real policemen on the streets instead of PSCOs who these kids don't give two hoots about.

If an area has a particular problem with street drinking then there *should* be a copper 'round every corner!

But then if you're happy for our streets to be full of drunk little chav yobs & the litter & vandalism it creates, bully for you.

Enjoy that reality.

Many shops have a age 25 policy, you must show ID to prove you are over 25 but you must be over 21 to buy alcohol, this is the rule where I work,due to problems in the area.I know that we work with local police and city patrol to enforce this.I have seen an improvement.But kids are still getting hold of alcohol no matter what us shop workers do and sadly it is the parents who think giving their child and mates a few cans doesnt do any harm, if they all get a few beers off their parents or older siblings they get enough to get drunk and do stupid things.Putting prices up wont help either and in my expereince alcopops are seen as a 'wussy' drink, there will always be somewhere cheaper, cider is mostly bought by the older alcoholics or joe public after work.£80.00 on the spot fines are already inforced if you are caught selling any age related product, not much to some but a weeks wages to the part timers.Plus you could be taken to court and the shop will lose its liqour license.Ultimately you would probaly lose your job.But we have procedures in place to prevent this as well as efficient staff training regulary, im sure this is true for many shops now.

What about overaged drinking?

The simple fact here is that if you try to stop the majority of kids today from doing something they will, its down to their upbringing ! I educated my kids on the effect of alcohol, I let them drink supervised at home with family meals in their early teens. This taught them to respect alcohol and its effects and today, even they like to go out at weekends, they never return home drunk and out of control.

Legal age for drinking should be 21 as in the U.S if you get caught more than once carrying booze or drinking alcohol then you are in the nick and a heavy fine if you are caught again expect a long term in a bigger nick. BUT IT WONT HAPPEN NOT ENOUGH NICKS.

Well we dont seem to be able to stop youngsters getting hold of cheap drink so how about banning drinking in the streets and public places as other countries do. If alcohol was only available at home or in licenced clubs, hopefully parents or club managers etc would help keep an eye on them and if those adults were ultimately legally responsible for them they might not allow them to drink at all. I find drunken young people (& older people too) on street corners and in parks very intimidating surely I'm not the only one? Fine the parents of under age drinkers then they would care if their children were drunk. Police would have more time for more important things, less crime, less teen pregnancy, healthier happier young people and the public less anti - towards them - many young people are actually very nice! The youngsters who are already addicted need help too, drink destroys lives. Thats my rant over!

Shoong wrote:

Donald2000 wrote:

Shoong wrote: Then put some PROPER coppers on the streets. They don't care because they know they won't get caught.

I dont know what you mean by PROPER coppers? People who write on here seem to think that there is a policeman round every corner and down every cul-de-sac. Get with the programme; there are not. In any case, the council tax payers of this parish could not afford to pay for it if there were and neither would anybody want it; they would all be complaining about harassment if the police enforced every law that there was. Reality check required on your part.

What I mean by proper coppers is getting real policemen on the streets instead of PSCOs who these kids don't give two hoots about. If an area has a particular problem with street drinking then there *should* be a copper 'round every corner! But then if you're happy for our streets to be full of drunk little chav yobs & the litter & vandalism it creates, bully for you. Enjoy that reality.

I dont live in any student areas, so I dont enjoy that reality. But I have lived in student areas, so I know about beer strewn streets and litter bins upended in the middle of Portswood Road.

There is still not money enough to employ police to be on every street corner or outside every pub. For what its worth my view is that the universities should be shut; they are not places of learning anymore, just dossers paradises for people who want time away from paid employment.

Although what good my rantings will do in this silly newspaper is beyond my comprehension.

Shoong wrote:

Donald2000 wrote:

Shoong wrote: Then put some PROPER coppers on the streets. They don't care because they know they won't get caught.

I dont know what you mean by PROPER coppers? People who write on here seem to think that there is a policeman round every corner and down every cul-de-sac. Get with the programme; there are not. In any case, the council tax payers of this parish could not afford to pay for it if there were and neither would anybody want it; they would all be complaining about harassment if the police enforced every law that there was. Reality check required on your part.

What I mean by proper coppers is getting real policemen on the streets instead of PSCOs who these kids don't give two hoots about. If an area has a particular problem with street drinking then there *should* be a copper 'round every corner! But then if you're happy for our streets to be full of drunk little chav yobs & the litter & vandalism it creates, bully for you. Enjoy that reality.

I dont live in any student areas, so I dont enjoy that reality. But I have lived in student areas, so I know about beer strewn streets and litter bins upended in the middle of Portswood Road.

There is still not money enough to employ police to be on every street corner or outside every pub. For what its worth my view is that the universities should be shut; they are not places of learning anymore, just dossers paradises for people who want time away from paid employment.

Although what good my rantings will do in this silly newspaper is beyond my comprehension.

Knee jerk reaction by the Lib Dems - whack up the price of booze ! Others calling for an increase in the age limit. Neither will work. Firstly, why should the majority who can legally buy their drink and enjoy it sensibly have to be punished. On the second point, it doesn't matter what age limit you put on alcohol sales kids still get hold of it. Most shops enforce a limit of 25 years of age. In addition why should any 18 year old be entitled to vote, get married and fight for their country yet not be able to buy a pint ? To tackle this problem you need to tackle the feckless parents who don't know where there kids are and don't care when their kids come home steaming drunk. Any kid caught on the street with booze should be taken to the police station (for their own protection), only released when a capable adult can collect them. If it means creating a few drunk tanks to throw them all into then so be it.

Carpe Diem wrote:
Knee jerk reaction by the Lib Dems - whack up the price of booze ! Others calling for an increase in the age limit. Neither will work. Firstly, why should the majority who can legally buy their drink and enjoy it sensibly have to be punished. On the second point, it doesn't matter what age limit you put on alcohol sales kids still get hold of it. Most shops enforce a limit of 25 years of age. In addition why should any 18 year old be entitled to vote, get married and fight for their country yet not be able to buy a pint ? To tackle this problem you need to tackle the feckless parents who don't know where there kids are and don't care when their kids come home steaming drunk. Any kid caught on the street with booze should be taken to the police station (for their own protection), only released when a capable adult can collect them. If it means creating a few drunk tanks to throw them all into then so be it.

Give it up. The cells are full enough with people who are not drunk, than to provide extra cells for those who are drunk. Is there no-one contributing to these threads who knows the very limited extent of police resources? If you want more cells, you pay more for them. or stop voting for people who give money to the banks.

You cannot have it all ways.

southy wrote:

Ken Hutchinson wrote:

southy wrote: one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

Doesn't work in the US, why would it work here?

it will take a very different political view. theres is a great need to change in this country. and most off our problems stem back 20 to 30 years ago. if you go back to the 70's and look at what use to happen back then, you could not get into a night club if you was under 21 and some clubs require you to be a member like the old after-eight club in shirley. the reason why clubs use to say 21 years old, was because it gave that bit of a lee-way for the few that did make it though that was between 18-21 with the drinking laws. the 15 to 18 years olds can no longer be trusted when it comes to drinking.

Thats cod. I went to the Top Rank Suite when I was 17 in Croydon and so did a load of others. They were the forerunners of night clubs.

You seem to be viewing the world through rose tinted spectacles.

Donald2000 wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote: Knee jerk reaction by the Lib Dems - whack up the price of booze ! Others calling for an increase in the age limit. Neither will work. Firstly, why should the majority who can legally buy their drink and enjoy it sensibly have to be punished. On the second point, it doesn't matter what age limit you put on alcohol sales kids still get hold of it. Most shops enforce a limit of 25 years of age. In addition why should any 18 year old be entitled to vote, get married and fight for their country yet not be able to buy a pint ? To tackle this problem you need to tackle the feckless parents who don't know where there kids are and don't care when their kids come home steaming drunk. Any kid caught on the street with booze should be taken to the police station (for their own protection), only released when a capable adult can collect them. If it means creating a few drunk tanks to throw them all into then so be it.

Give it up. The cells are full enough with people who are not drunk, than to provide extra cells for those who are drunk. Is there no-one contributing to these threads who knows the very limited extent of police resources? If you want more cells, you pay more for them. or stop voting for people who give money to the banks. You cannot have it all ways.

I take your point, but can you offer another solution. My point was that parents should be making sure they know what their kids are doing. The drunken kids should be removed from the streets - preferably to somewhere remote that means that parents face a major inconvenience to get them back. Doesn't have to be a cop shop, could be a secure warehouse for all I care, there's plenty of cheap lock-up space for rent.

Carpe Diem wrote:

Donald2000 wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote: Knee jerk reaction by the Lib Dems - whack up the price of booze ! Others calling for an increase in the age limit. Neither will work. Firstly, why should the majority who can legally buy their drink and enjoy it sensibly have to be punished. On the second point, it doesn't matter what age limit you put on alcohol sales kids still get hold of it. Most shops enforce a limit of 25 years of age. In addition why should any 18 year old be entitled to vote, get married and fight for their country yet not be able to buy a pint ? To tackle this problem you need to tackle the feckless parents who don't know where there kids are and don't care when their kids come home steaming drunk. Any kid caught on the street with booze should be taken to the police station (for their own protection), only released when a capable adult can collect them. If it means creating a few drunk tanks to throw them all into then so be it.

Give it up. The cells are full enough with people who are not drunk, than to provide extra cells for those who are drunk. Is there no-one contributing to these threads who knows the very limited extent of police resources? If you want more cells, you pay more for them. or stop voting for people who give money to the banks. You cannot have it all ways.

I take your point, but can you offer another solution. My point was that parents should be making sure they know what their kids are doing. The drunken kids should be removed from the streets - preferably to somewhere remote that means that parents face a major inconvenience to get them back. Doesn't have to be a cop shop, could be a secure warehouse for all I care, there's plenty of cheap lock-up space for rent.

And where would you get the personnel to supervise this service?

Donald2000 wrote:

southy wrote:

Ken Hutchinson wrote:

southy wrote: one way to sort it out, is to up the drinking age to 21 and then give a little bit off lee way for those between 18 to 21.

Doesn't work in the US, why would it work here?

it will take a very different political view. theres is a great need to change in this country. and most off our problems stem back 20 to 30 years ago. if you go back to the 70's and look at what use to happen back then, you could not get into a night club if you was under 21 and some clubs require you to be a member like the old after-eight club in shirley. the reason why clubs use to say 21 years old, was because it gave that bit of a lee-way for the few that did make it though that was between 18-21 with the drinking laws. the 15 to 18 years olds can no longer be trusted when it comes to drinking.

Thats cod. I went to the Top Rank Suite when I was 17 in Croydon and so did a load of others. They were the forerunners of night clubs.

You seem to be viewing the world through rose tinted spectacles.

top rank clubs was more to the cater for the younger people. for those who could not get into a night club because they was to young. mecca done the same. thats why they was class has dance halls and not night clubs. there was also a big difference in the time's when they open and when they close.
like night clubs would be closed from mon to wed and would only open up between thur to sun,
where has dance halls like top rank and mecca use to open up every evening of the week, they also open up between midday to 2-30pm, during school holidays and when radio 1 roadshow came to town.

the thing is we need to go back to then, and compare it with to-day and see what is the difference, and see where its gone wrong. i all ready know the answer to this.

What everyone seems to be missing is WHY it happens. it's because there's nothing else for the kids to do that isn't already illegal, anti-social or on cctv. They're playing up simply because they're bored. And NO they won't want to do anything organised by adults - did you???

Crazywolf wrote:
What everyone seems to be missing is WHY it happens. it's because there's nothing else for the kids to do that isn't already illegal, anti-social or on cctv. They're playing up simply because they're bored. And NO they won't want to do anything organised by adults - did you???

I wondered how long it would take for somebody to trot out that excuse. Sorry, the boredom excuse doesn't wash. Kids today have more than ever - TVs, Video Games, Internet at home. They have skate parks, games areas that have basketball pitches, 5-a-side footy pitches. They're getting drunk because they can and nobody is stopping them and telling them that it's wrong. It's an age old problem, but the issue is that kids are getting drunk at a much earlier age now. Time to nip it in the bud and put some effort into stopping it. That means we all have to do it. Stop your kids from drinking people. When you see a bunch of kids drinking report it. It's not grassing it's called being socially responsible.

Crazywolf wrote:
What everyone seems to be missing is WHY it happens. it's because there's nothing else for the kids to do that isn't already illegal, anti-social or on cctv. They're playing up simply because they're bored. And NO they won't want to do anything organised by adults - did you???

the biggest reason why it happens, is the type of politics you got.
right wing politics breed this sort of thing, it has connections with high unemployment, poverty, homeless. ect
if you go back to when i left school, most people left at the age of 15, and you would find a job that same day has you leave school. if you left a job for what ever reason you would be back in a job with in 12 hours. but in the 80's that all changed.
any way the point is because you knew you had work the next day. you would not drink so much. oh yes we did drink under age back then too. but we keep a low profile and behave our selfs even when walking back from the pub, the last thing we wanted was the landlord getting hear about what happen from its customers on the way home after drinking at there bar, you would pick up a ban. land lords back then did not want there pub to have a bad reputation.
but because of technology speeding up and jobs got fewer, the school leaving age has slowly been creeping up, but the drinking laws hav'nt,
when you think about it, leave at 15 and it was 3 years of working life before you was legally allowed to drink, those 3 years taught you how to behave in public, also back then in my days young adults where more grown up than they are now day.