Prime minister backs Spitfire memorial (From Daily Echo)

~~

Brilliant news for Southampton!!! - lets hope all goes to plan

Talk is cheap.

He may well support it with words, but will he support it with cash?

I have my doubts.

It is nice of David Cameron just as it was good of Gordon Brown to write in support of Spitfire project in Southampton
.
It will be interesting to know if either of the two chaps has actually provided any financial support for the project. Surely while handing over billions to ‘bankers’ they could have written a small cheque for this purpose, if they wanted to that is
.
One person who really deserves respect is Squadron Leader Jones, who over the years has done everything possible to keep spitfire flag flying high.

its not going to be easy to do with out looking like a giant airfix model.

agreed paramjit bahia

Where will it be sited? Just past the Volkswagon showroom??
Let it go chaps, it was 70 years ago, and we have blended cultures with the Germans in all aspects of life.

southy wrote:
its not going to be easy to do with out looking like a giant airfix model. agreed paramjit bahia

Commissar southy, southy redbridge, etc, you really are such a miserable so 'n' so! Try showing a bit of optimism for once, will you?! No doubt you wouldn't be happy unless it had red stars daubed all over it! Purely going by the picture on here, I think the winning design of this memorial looks fantastic! Much better than I expected actually.

Scrutinizer wrote:

southy wrote:
its not going to be easy to do with out looking like a giant airfix model. agreed paramjit bahia

Commissar southy, southy redbridge, etc, you really are such a miserable so 'n' so! Try showing a bit of optimism for once, will you?! No doubt you wouldn't be happy unless it had red stars daubed all over it! Purely going by the picture on here, I think the winning design of this memorial looks fantastic! Much better than I expected actually.

you think, it looks like a airfix model, but they do need to do some thing for a spitfire mind you the hurricane play a much bigger rule in the battle of britian.

Atpost, Minstead says...
7:26pm Fri 14 Jan 11
Where will it be sited? Just past the Volkswagon showroom??
Let it go chaps, it was 70 years ago, and we have blended cultures with the Germans in all aspects of life.

and that atpost is probably why brown and cameron are all talk and no money.

Atpost wrote:
Where will it be sited? Just past the Volkswagon showroom?? Let it go chaps, it was 70 years ago, and we have blended cultures with the Germans in all aspects of life.

"Let it go chaps, it was 70 years ago"? That is such an insensitive comment. This memorial represents one of the most important tools we had to defeat the nazi regime. Now we are on good terms with the Germans and that's a simple fact, and both countries are all the better for it. However we entitle ourselves to commemorate the brave efforts of the people who secured our freedom, many of whom died in the process, and the machines that assisted them in doing so. But anyway, there would not be anything like, as you put it; "...blended cultures..." unless crucially important machines like the spitfire were invented. And that is really what this memorial is all about.

southy wrote:

Scrutinizer wrote:

southy wrote: its not going to be easy to do with out looking like a giant airfix model. agreed paramjit bahia

Commissar southy, southy redbridge, etc, you really are such a miserable so 'n' so! Try showing a bit of optimism for once, will you?! No doubt you wouldn't be happy unless it had red stars daubed all over it! Purely going by the picture on here, I think the winning design of this memorial looks fantastic! Much better than I expected actually.

you think, it looks like a airfix model, but they do need to do some thing for a spitfire mind you the hurricane play a much bigger rule in the battle of britian. Atpost, Minstead says... 7:26pm Fri 14 Jan 11 Where will it be sited? Just past the Volkswagon showroom?? Let it go chaps, it was 70 years ago, and we have blended cultures with the Germans in all aspects of life. and that atpost is probably why brown and cameron are all talk and no money.

southy, southy, redbridge, etc, It's very well known all about the Hurricane and how the bulk of the R.A.F's fighter squadrons were made up of them during the Battle Of Britain. BUT the Spitfire has a SPECIAL link with Southampton, by having been built (along with other places too obviously)and developed and having it's first test flights here, which if you are a Sotonian you should know. Regarding the positioning of the memorial, if we were to allow ourselves to be influenced by worrying about what the people of a former enemy country thought of where the memorial is sited in our own country, then we would be offending the memory of all those who fought to secure our freedom. And after all they, themselves, in Germany, would not have the freedoms they all have today without machines like the Spitfire to help secure it for them too.

Linesman wrote:
Talk is cheap. He may well support it with words, but will he support it with cash? I have my doubts.

Give him a day or so.....he'll then be dead against it.

it is a beautiful looking plane, and was designed and first built here. but making it look like an airfix do not give it justice. that,s why i say you got be careful how its done.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is nice of David Cameron just as it was good of Gordon Brown to write in support of Spitfire project in Southampton . It will be interesting to know if either of the two chaps has actually provided any financial support for the project. Surely while handing over billions to ‘bankers’ they could have written a small cheque for this purpose, if they wanted to that is . One person who really deserves respect is Squadron Leader Jones, who over the years has done everything possible to keep spitfire flag flying high.

They would not have done so because, to the best of my knowledge, there has not been a money-raising committee to get the scheme off the ground.

Unfortunately, Southampton always appears to lack energy and drive.

WWII, when the Spitfire made its name, ended 65 years ago, and it is only comparatively recently that there has been talk of a monument.

The Titanic sank a century ago, and it is only comparatively recently that a commemorative museum has been considered, yet there has been one in Northern Ireland for ages.

Talk is cheap, and the City Council are always for the cheap option.

Well, if David Cameron has got himself involved in this, it's pretty well a non-starter now. He ruins everything he goes near.
I bet he's related in some way to King Midas' less fortunate brother.

On a more positive note, I think it looks good and should be a welcoming crowd puller to, what used to be, a bustling waterfront area.
Now all we have to do is get the rest of it looking good so visitors on their cruises to our city can have something positive to say about it.
Have you heard what some of them have to say once they have posted their holiday videos on You Tube? It's quite upsetting if you are a true Sotonian.

.. clear for take off, SpittingFire, over.

Linesman wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: It is nice of David Cameron just as it was good of Gordon Brown to write in support of Spitfire project in Southampton . It will be interesting to know if either of the two chaps has actually provided any financial support for the project. Surely while handing over billions to ‘bankers’ they could have written a small cheque for this purpose, if they wanted to that is . One person who really deserves respect is Squadron Leader Jones, who over the years has done everything possible to keep spitfire flag flying high.

They would not have done so because, to the best of my knowledge, there has not been a money-raising committee to get the scheme off the ground. Unfortunately, Southampton always appears to lack energy and drive. WWII, when the Spitfire made its name, ended 65 years ago, and it is only comparatively recently that there has been talk of a monument. The Titanic sank a century ago, and it is only comparatively recently that a commemorative museum has been considered, yet there has been one in Northern Ireland for ages. Talk is cheap, and the City Council are always for the cheap option.

I agree with most of what your are saying. But on Spitfire I think Sqd Ldr Jones (From museum near Ocean Village) and his team have been trying to do something like this for a long time. Slow start was only on Council’s side due to lack of interest by Party in power.
I remember meeting Sqd Led Jones long time ago when we had Labour controlled Council. Sadly due to different political affiliations (probably assumptions) party in power (of which I was member) was not interested. Personally I still do not know what Mr. Jones political views are. But I can only speak very highly of his commitment to Spitfire.

freefinker wrote:
.. clear for take off, SpittingFire, over.

...roger that freefinker, preparing for liftoff, over

SpittingFire wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. clear for take off, SpittingFire, over.

...roger that freefinker, preparing for liftoff, over

"Airborne. Preparing to attack..."

SpittingFire wrote:

SpittingFire wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. clear for take off, SpittingFire, over.

...roger that freefinker, preparing for liftoff, over

"Airborne. Preparing to attack..."

"...We have the enemy within our sights, over"

"...ready"

"...aim..."

*****FIRE!*****
.
This is something of nothing. The last PM put their backing to a Spitfire monument and Cameron is simply doing the same. Although last time Brown invited them all to No. 10, so a bit of a let down this is.
.
Hannides: The PM's "support will underline the value of the project". However, there is no value underlying the Nick Hancock design. Risen from greed and propelled by means of deception. It will not be Southampton's tribute to the Spitfire. It is no tribute to the Spitfire.
.
Hannides continues: "This globally significant tribute will be the biggest and most significant tribute to the Spitfire in the world.” - Repeating yourself in one sentence Cllr Hannides: now there's a new one! Flustered as ever, desperately trying to hold it together!
.
Cllr Hannides even goes all out to mention the PM as the:"head of Her Majesty’s Government..." What an attempt to throw a punch and try and get some weight behind it, in response to the battle he continues to find himself in.
.
But again, this news is simply something of nothing. That said, Hannides has done it again; another lot of reckless utterances conceived out of desperation, assured from such horrendous arrogance.
.

Nutstrangler wrote:

Linesman wrote:
Talk is cheap. He may well support it with words, but will he support it with cash? I have my doubts.

Give him a day or so.....he'll then be dead against it.

Yes he will.
.
When he knows the truth of the matter, he will be disgusted he was used by his fellow Conservatives in local Government, as a propellant for bolstering such an awful affair.

southy wrote:
it is a beautiful looking plane, and was designed and first built here. but making it look like an airfix do not give it justice. that,s why i say you got be careful how its done.

It runs much deeper than that Southy. This scandalous Nick Hancock design by its very conception and selection will never, ever, in any way do justice to the legend of the Spitfire.
.
It is an insult that those who make the claim; those that know how it came to be, to say this design is the ultimate tribute to the Spitfire.
.
It is an insult to those who lost their lives creating the Spitfire in this City, that this design dare sits along from the river, from where they perished.
.
It is an insult to those who flew the Spitfire and those who lost their lives in battle. Fighting for our freedom, fighting for justice, fighting against such atrocity, that this design dare make claim to celebrate all that is honest and good.
.
It is an insult to those that developed, built, and maintained the machine during its lifetime. From Vickers Supermarine to Castle Bromwich, to the combined efforts across the city. To find that this scandalous Nick Hancock design dare be considered worthy to remember their their brilliance, their integrity, their determination, and their dedication, is an abomination. This design brings shame to Southampton. It is a disgrace.
.
And it is the ultimate insult to one, to whom we owe so much.
.

Linesman wrote:
Talk is cheap.

He may well support it with words, but will he support it with cash?

I have my doubts.

As the Echo's picture selection shows us once more, it appears the PM is all style and no substance!

Linesman wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
It is nice of David Cameron just as it was good of Gordon Brown to write in support of Spitfire project in Southampton . It will be interesting to know if either of the two chaps has actually provided any financial support for the project. Surely while handing over billions to ‘bankers’ they could have written a small cheque for this purpose, if they wanted to that is . One person who really deserves respect is Squadron Leader Jones, who over the years has done everything possible to keep spitfire flag flying high.

They would not have done so because, to the best of my knowledge, there has not been a money-raising committee to get the scheme off the ground.

Unfortunately, Southampton always appears to lack energy and drive.

WWII, when the Spitfire made its name, ended 65 years ago, and it is only comparatively recently that there has been talk of a monument.

The Titanic sank a century ago, and it is only comparatively recently that a commemorative museum has been considered, yet there has been one in Northern Ireland for ages.

Talk is cheap, and the City Council are always for the cheap option.

"Talk is cheap, and the City Council are always for the cheap option." - Hit the nail on the head.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

Linesman wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote: It is nice of David Cameron just as it was good of Gordon Brown to write in support of Spitfire project in Southampton . It will be interesting to know if either of the two chaps has actually provided any financial support for the project. Surely while handing over billions to ‘bankers’ they could have written a small cheque for this purpose, if they wanted to that is . One person who really deserves respect is Squadron Leader Jones, who over the years has done everything possible to keep spitfire flag flying high.

They would not have done so because, to the best of my knowledge, there has not been a money-raising committee to get the scheme off the ground. Unfortunately, Southampton always appears to lack energy and drive. WWII, when the Spitfire made its name, ended 65 years ago, and it is only comparatively recently that there has been talk of a monument. The Titanic sank a century ago, and it is only comparatively recently that a commemorative museum has been considered, yet there has been one in Northern Ireland for ages. Talk is cheap, and the City Council are always for the cheap option.

I agree with most of what your are saying. But on Spitfire I think Sqd Ldr Jones (From museum near Ocean Village) and his team have been trying to do something like this for a long time. Slow start was only on Council’s side due to lack of interest by Party in power.
I remember meeting Sqd Led Jones long time ago when we had Labour controlled Council. Sadly due to different political affiliations (probably assumptions) party in power (of which I was member) was not interested. Personally I still do not know what Mr. Jones political views are. But I can only speak very highly of his commitment to Spitfire.

With your comments in mind Paramjit, what a travesty that Sqd Leader Jones was not made Chairman of the Foundation... in fact why was it that he was not made chairman?
.
It is quite outrageous that with a glowing report of his commitment and dedication to the Spitfire as you present, that this man could so easily allow the Spitfire be so tainted with such a disgraceful competition result. A result that totally flies in the face of the Spitfire legend and it's role in preserving our freedom. For it decades later to be abused like this.

This is Fantasic news.....i'd be soo proud of our fine city !!!

SpittingFire wrote:

southy wrote:
it is a beautiful looking plane, and was designed and first built here. but making it look like an airfix do not give it justice. that,s why i say you got be careful how its done.

It runs much deeper than that Southy. This scandalous Nick Hancock design by its very conception and selection will never, ever, in any way do justice to the legend of the Spitfire.
.
It is an insult that those who make the claim; those that know how it came to be, to say this design is the ultimate tribute to the Spitfire.
.
It is an insult to those who lost their lives creating the Spitfire in this City, that this design dare sits along from the river, from where they perished.
.
It is an insult to those who flew the Spitfire and those who lost their lives in battle. Fighting for our freedom, fighting for justice, fighting against such atrocity, that this design dare make claim to celebrate all that is honest and good.
.
It is an insult to those that developed, built, and maintained the machine during its lifetime. From Vickers Supermarine to Castle Bromwich, to the combined efforts across the city. To find that this scandalous Nick Hancock design dare be considered worthy to remember their their brilliance, their integrity, their determination, and their dedication, is an abomination. This design brings shame to Southampton. It is a disgrace.
.
And it is the ultimate insult to one, to whom we owe so much.
.

you know vickers had a small factory in south mill road in millbrook, now totally gone and built on with flats.

thinking about it, it would be better to have a statue of R. J. Mitchell holding a model of the spitfire.

southy wrote:

SpittingFire wrote:

southy wrote: it is a beautiful looking plane, and was designed and first built here. but making it look like an airfix do not give it justice. that,s why i say you got be careful how its done.

It runs much deeper than that Southy. This scandalous Nick Hancock design by its very conception and selection will never, ever, in any way do justice to the legend of the Spitfire. . It is an insult that those who make the claim; those that know how it came to be, to say this design is the ultimate tribute to the Spitfire. . It is an insult to those who lost their lives creating the Spitfire in this City, that this design dare sits along from the river, from where they perished. . It is an insult to those who flew the Spitfire and those who lost their lives in battle. Fighting for our freedom, fighting for justice, fighting against such atrocity, that this design dare make claim to celebrate all that is honest and good. . It is an insult to those that developed, built, and maintained the machine during its lifetime. From Vickers Supermarine to Castle Bromwich, to the combined efforts across the city. To find that this scandalous Nick Hancock design dare be considered worthy to remember their their brilliance, their integrity, their determination, and their dedication, is an abomination. This design brings shame to Southampton. It is a disgrace. . And it is the ultimate insult to one, to whom we owe so much. .

you know vickers had a small factory in south mill road in millbrook, now totally gone and built on with flats. thinking about it, it would be better to have a statue of R. J. Mitchell holding a model of the spitfire.

There are four important pieces of Spitfire story. Man who designed, workers who built, the plane itself and the RAF crews (Including pilots and their support staff on the ground). They all should be part of one tribute. Mitchell with little plane will not be sufficient.

I am one of the original six published finalists in the Spitfire Tribute Competition held last year. For those of you who are following this, I have a general update regarding the confused outcome to the competition.

In addition, the story behind the competition has attracted the interest of the BBC Inside Out South Programme, which will cover this next
Monday 14th Feb at 7.30pm

In short, 5 of the 6 published finalists have acted together to try and gain an explanation from the Spitfire Tribute Foundation (STF) and Southampton
City Council (SCC), who effectively managed the competition, including liaison with all finalists. James Burnell, the runner up in the competition, has not been contactable, so we act as 5 not 6.

Basically, we asked why a non published finalist, with a design proposal that does not meet the brief
and who now stands to benefit financially by delivering the Tribute, was selected by the STF ?

Our issue is not with the winning design, although we have pointed out that it is surprising that the STF
has chosen a proposal that appears to echo the design approach of an earlier concept for the Tribute by Colin Lee in 2007-8; our issue is with the process
through to selecting it.

Cllr. Hannides as both Chairman of the STF and central to SCC support for the Tribute has been in receipt of our attempts to try and understand this.

Our initial approach was at first ignored, then essentially pushed aside, citing the terms and conditions of the
competition namely; the Foundations decision is final and no correspondence would be entered into. We felt that due process for a competition of this
stature, run nationally and with the support of the Sunday Telegraph, has fallen short of what should have been expected.

We believe at the very least, all those who entered the competition, or have donated to support the Tribute, together with the people of Southampton, should receive a satisfactory explanation.
Why have we not had this ?

After the position of the STF and SCC was made clear to us by Cllr. Hannides, we instructed a law firm to act on our behalf and make a Freedom of Information (FOI) Request to Cllr. Hannides, to obtain the necessary information to explain this. Our FOI request was initially rejected but on representation has been responded to by SCC. The response falls short of a full explanation and so this action is ongoing.

The STF and SCC have either run the competition correctly, with due process, or not, at present to the
level we intend to understand this, we just don’t know. Is this just a case of serial incompetence ? again, we aim
to find out. The failure of the STF and SCC to engage with us, to the level we have asked, has significantly frustrated
our attempts to understand this. We believe this is not good enough and intend to correct this.

The BBC Inside Out Programme should hopefully give some insight as to the workings of the STF and most importantly the management of the competition with SCC.

Personally, what should have been a significant milestone for the ambitions to honor the Spitfire and all it represents has been missed; this is the Spitfire !… why couldn’t the STF and SCC just get it right and be seen to do so ?

Martin Witts