Ford's £17,000 offer to avoid strike action

First published in Eastleigh Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Politics and business reporter

Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal.

Union bosses last night warned strike action could be taken to fight the closure of the Ford Transit factory next July with the loss of more than 500 jobs.

But some workers clocking off shift yesterday said they were resigned to the factory’s closure and said there was little mood yet for industrial action.

The latest revelations come after Ford admitted it kept secret plans to close its Swaythling plant while negotiating a multimillion-pound tax payer handout for other UK plants.

Business secretary Vince Cable exclusively told the Daily Echo he had been kept in the dark about Ford’s plans to close the plant when £10m of Government funding was signed off just days earlier.

Ford insisted yesterday an earlier briefing of Government officials would not have been “possible or appropriate”.

Dr Cable, pictured, told the Echo if ministers had been aware of last Thursday's announcement earlier the Government would have gone back to Ford and asked “what on earth was going on”. He said he felt “let down”

Ford had not given more notice.

Ford bosses have said loyal staff would be looked after with “extremely generous” redundancy packages.

Workers at the factory gates told the Echo yesterday they feared special “continuity” payments of between £15,000 and £17,000, on top of severance pay, will be put in jeopardy if production at the factory is disrupted.

However, there is some resentment among the hundreds of sub contractors, agency workers and suppliers, who will not get the payments.

Richard Tarrant, 45, a Ford worker of 20 years, said: “The union has said nothing to us. All our information is coming second hand out of the smoking shelter. What can we do? They are going to close it.”

A Ford contract worker of 12 years, John Finlay, 48, added: “Once Ford has taken the decision to close it we’ve got no leg to stand on. The only people that might have a say is the Government. To say we might have the power to stop it is impossible.”

Roger Maddison, Unite’s national officer for the automotive industry at Unite, said union convenors would hold a strategy meeting in London today before Ford workers were consulted on what action, if any, to take.

He said a mass meeting of union officials at the Southampton plant yesterday reached a "unanimous decision" to oppose the closure and warned strike action had not been ruled out.

“We have to take the word of our reps that people are upset and angry and they want to fight for their jobs.

But we need to agree a strategy that we can take to members.”

Mr Maddison added the Government and Dr Cable should have demanded job guarantees before handing over any money to Ford.

“Ford were after millions of pounds, they are not going to volunteer that information. Maybe that’s a little underhand. Some people would say that’s professional.”

Ford announced last Thursday it planned to shut the Southampton plant and cease stamping and tooling operations in Dagenham to cut costs after falling European sales.

Transit production will move to Turkey.

A Ford spokesman said: “Ford’s planned European restructuring actions, including those affecting Southampton and Dagenham, were approved by the board of Ford Motor Company shortly before the start of communications with employees and employee representatives, and therefore an earlier briefing of Government officials would not have been possible, or appropriate.”

“The offer of the grant is a conditional one, that is not yet confirmed, and it would relate to Ford’s significant planned investment in powertrain manufacturing and engineering in the UK, which includes the announcement to add a new next generation, low-CO2, 2.0-litre diesel engine in Dagenham.”

Comments (90)

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9:57am Tue 30 Oct 12

hulla baloo says...

In other words the Government have been shafted by Fords, and the 10 million payout is subsidising the 'bribe' for not striking.
Great move by Fords.
In other words the Government have been shafted by Fords, and the 10 million payout is subsidising the 'bribe' for not striking. Great move by Fords. hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

10:02am Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

Hi kids, today's special word is 'blackmail'.
Hi kids, today's special word is 'blackmail'. Shoong
  • Score: 0

10:14am Tue 30 Oct 12

ohec says...

I dont see what the contract / agency workers have got to gripe about they do not work for the Ford Motor Company they new the terms and conditions of their employers why should they expect to get compensation from another employer, also the article mentions people that have worked at the plant for many years and i am sure during that time they had the opportunity to apply for a job with Ford, would these same people be moaning if it wasn't for the generous package on offer to Ford Motor Company employees. I just hope that nothing is done to jeopardise those terms.
I dont see what the contract / agency workers have got to gripe about they do not work for the Ford Motor Company they new the terms and conditions of their employers why should they expect to get compensation from another employer, also the article mentions people that have worked at the plant for many years and i am sure during that time they had the opportunity to apply for a job with Ford, would these same people be moaning if it wasn't for the generous package on offer to Ford Motor Company employees. I just hope that nothing is done to jeopardise those terms. ohec
  • Score: 0

10:15am Tue 30 Oct 12

Over the Edge says...

Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

10:17am Tue 30 Oct 12

rudolph_hucker says...

Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses
Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses rudolph_hucker
  • Score: 0

10:55am Tue 30 Oct 12

G0Rf says...

If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place? G0Rf
  • Score: 0

10:56am Tue 30 Oct 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

rudolph_hucker wrote:
Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses
As long as it wasn't made in Turkey!
[quote][p][bold]rudolph_hucker[/bold] wrote: Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses[/p][/quote]As long as it wasn't made in Turkey! OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

11:20am Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
[quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job. southy
  • Score: 0

11:25am Tue 30 Oct 12

Lone Ranger. says...

G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
Complete rubbish
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]Complete rubbish Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

11:26am Tue 30 Oct 12

sarfhamton says...

rudolph_hucker wrote:
Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses
This is actually a good idea!
[quote][p][bold]rudolph_hucker[/bold] wrote: Why not give all laid off workers a free transit so they can start their own businesses[/p][/quote]This is actually a good idea! sarfhamton
  • Score: 0

11:30am Tue 30 Oct 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal. hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

11:30am Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
if they did not strike there jobs would off been gone long ago. the last strike action kept the factory running even low it was just chassis cabs being made.
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]if they did not strike there jobs would off been gone long ago. the last strike action kept the factory running even low it was just chassis cabs being made. southy
  • Score: 0

11:32am Tue 30 Oct 12

George4th says...

G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
Quite correct.
In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home!
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]Quite correct. In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home! George4th
  • Score: 1

11:37am Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike.

Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them.

All perspective has been lost I'm afraid.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike. Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them. All perspective has been lost I'm afraid. Shoong
  • Score: 0

11:41am Tue 30 Oct 12

VIVERS says...

fords is going to close end of so striking is not going to work is it " plebs" royal mail are looking for 150 staff give that ago. for god sake wake up guys
fords is going to close end of so striking is not going to work is it " plebs" royal mail are looking for 150 staff give that ago. for god sake wake up guys VIVERS
  • Score: 0

11:43am Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes. southy
  • Score: 0

11:46am Tue 30 Oct 12

George4th says...

southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords? George4th
  • Score: 0

11:50am Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike.

Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them.

All perspective has been lost I'm afraid.
First all you got to have jobs on the market place, for be able to stand a chance to get a job,
And you get more help than I do Shoong.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike. Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them. All perspective has been lost I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]First all you got to have jobs on the market place, for be able to stand a chance to get a job, And you get more help than I do Shoong. southy
  • Score: 0

11:51am Tue 30 Oct 12

Hdg end mo says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
Even if they do strike ford's will not budge they knew for a long time swaythling plant days are numbered and eventually the inevitable will happen yes 17k maybe a years wage and is not alot of money if your being made redundant.
but if I was in there shoes I'd take it because there's nothing whatsoever will change fords mind
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]Even if they do strike ford's will not budge they knew for a long time swaythling plant days are numbered and eventually the inevitable will happen yes 17k maybe a years wage and is not alot of money if your being made redundant. but if I was in there shoes I'd take it because there's nothing whatsoever will change fords mind Hdg end mo
  • Score: 0

11:52am Tue 30 Oct 12

ohec says...

southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
southy
You really need to go back to school thats if you ever went in the first place, and you purport to be a union man no wonder the country is in the state it is if its relying on people of your intelligence level. If those in Belgium are being led by the likes of you God help them.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]southy You really need to go back to school thats if you ever went in the first place, and you purport to be a union man no wonder the country is in the state it is if its relying on people of your intelligence level. If those in Belgium are being led by the likes of you God help them. ohec
  • Score: 0

12:02pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike.

Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them.

All perspective has been lost I'm afraid.
First all you got to have jobs on the market place, for be able to stand a chance to get a job,
And you get more help than I do Shoong.
There ARE jobs out there. What, so just because they have worked at Ford's they are incapable of doing anything else?

Let's hope these guys are a bit more motivated, I certainly hope they are able to think for themselves which is what you seem to think they can't do.

They don't need your 'help' I'll wager.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Yeah, £17,000, that's a pittance, what an insult to be paid not to go on strike. Not likely to find anew job? Maybe you could have a little faith in them, hopefully they don't take a leaf out of your book and sit on their backsides waiting for someone else to help them. All perspective has been lost I'm afraid.[/p][/quote]First all you got to have jobs on the market place, for be able to stand a chance to get a job, And you get more help than I do Shoong.[/p][/quote]There ARE jobs out there. What, so just because they have worked at Ford's they are incapable of doing anything else? Let's hope these guys are a bit more motivated, I certainly hope they are able to think for themselves which is what you seem to think they can't do. They don't need your 'help' I'll wager. Shoong
  • Score: 0

12:04pm Tue 30 Oct 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST.
What is there to save?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST. What is there to save? hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

12:07pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth. southy
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Tue 30 Oct 12

loosehead says...

Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up?
Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal.
it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it?
so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production?
Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee.
Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?
Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up? Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal. it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it? so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production? Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee. Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived? loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Cyber__Fug says...

Three of the people that I know that work for Fords were lucky to keep their jobs after the last round of redundancies, however all three have stated that closure is inevitable and they will just hold tight to get the best redundancy package they can..... and if it means an extra 17000 for not striking then that's what they are going to do.
Three of the people that I know that work for Fords were lucky to keep their jobs after the last round of redundancies, however all three have stated that closure is inevitable and they will just hold tight to get the best redundancy package they can..... and if it means an extra 17000 for not striking then that's what they are going to do. Cyber__Fug
  • Score: 0

12:12pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
Companies tend to plan for the future, rather than the past.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]Companies tend to plan for the future, rather than the past. Shoong
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST.
What is there to save?
Yes they said the same thing a couple of years ago, but the guys went on strike and manage to keep the Chassis Cabs being build here.
If you don't strike and put up a fight, you have lost, but if you strike and fight for what is right then you stand a chance.
Worse thing that can happen to Fords now is an International Strike and that as all ready started, even the safe Ford Plant in Spain (the only factory that fords had to pay for) came out on strike to support other ford factorys that are out on strike
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST. What is there to save?[/p][/quote]Yes they said the same thing a couple of years ago, but the guys went on strike and manage to keep the Chassis Cabs being build here. If you don't strike and put up a fight, you have lost, but if you strike and fight for what is right then you stand a chance. Worse thing that can happen to Fords now is an International Strike and that as all ready started, even the safe Ford Plant in Spain (the only factory that fords had to pay for) came out on strike to support other ford factorys that are out on strike southy
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up?
Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal.
it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it?
so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production?
Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee.
Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?
Well your greed would, you think the here and now and not the future.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up? Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal. it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it? so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production? Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee. Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?[/p][/quote]Well your greed would, you think the here and now and not the future. southy
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Tue 30 Oct 12

townieboy says...

Depending on service 30 yrs in £100,000
Pension depending on service £1200 a month
£20,000 bonus on top or wages to keep making vans till july next year.

Great deal i think as the plant is going to close anyway. Where and who else leaves on terms like that.
Depending on service 30 yrs in £100,000 Pension depending on service £1200 a month £20,000 bonus on top or wages to keep making vans till july next year. Great deal i think as the plant is going to close anyway. Where and who else leaves on terms like that. townieboy
  • Score: 0

12:18pm Tue 30 Oct 12

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
You're having a laugh aren't you?
Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits?
Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us.
Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us?
Countries would jump at the chance.
Southy the world you want or remember is gone,
We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue.
This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]You're having a laugh aren't you? Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits? Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us. Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us? Countries would jump at the chance. Southy the world you want or remember is gone, We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue. This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Tue 30 Oct 12

elvisimo says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST. What is there to save?
agree - stable door, horse etc.

Take the money
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST. What is there to save?[/p][/quote]agree - stable door, horse etc. Take the money elvisimo
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
Companies tend to plan for the future, rather than the past.
That is true, but mind you Fords had to pay for the update of the Ford Factory in Spain in 2006 the only Ford Plant that they got to pay for and not the normal of a Government paying.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]Companies tend to plan for the future, rather than the past.[/p][/quote]That is true, but mind you Fords had to pay for the update of the Ford Factory in Spain in 2006 the only Ford Plant that they got to pay for and not the normal of a Government paying. southy
  • Score: 0

12:22pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Over the Edge says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
Totally agree hull baloo, striking will do nothing to stop the closure, it may even bring forward the closure, if Fords decide to bring the consultation period in light of any impending strike action.

Southy

The deal to close the plant is done and dusted, the Government won't help stop the closure, SCC are trying their best by preparing for life after Fords hence the request for an enterprise zone, the workers aren't stupid, extra £15-£17k in the bin or stand on a picket line lighting a bin fire......you decide?

I know which bin I prefer
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]Totally agree hull baloo, striking will do nothing to stop the closure, it may even bring forward the closure, if Fords decide to bring the consultation period in light of any impending strike action. Southy The deal to close the plant is done and dusted, the Government won't help stop the closure, SCC are trying their best by preparing for life after Fords hence the request for an enterprise zone, the workers aren't stupid, extra £15-£17k in the bin or stand on a picket line lighting a bin fire......you decide? I know which bin I prefer Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

12:24pm Tue 30 Oct 12

loosehead says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up?
Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal.
it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it?
so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production?
Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee.
Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?
Well your greed would, you think the here and now and not the future.
I was made redundant with people in this paper cheering the closure of my factory.
We had a similar clause we also knew we wouldn't get a Labour governments help as Blair had already rejected our pleas for help as he was Anti Smoking.
We took the best offer which was 4 weeks pay for every year you worked there. if we had gone on strike we would have gone to the Governments recommended payments for redundancy.
Unlike you we knew where we were better off as we live in the real world
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up? Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal. it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it? so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production? Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee. Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?[/p][/quote]Well your greed would, you think the here and now and not the future.[/p][/quote]I was made redundant with people in this paper cheering the closure of my factory. We had a similar clause we also knew we wouldn't get a Labour governments help as Blair had already rejected our pleas for help as he was Anti Smoking. We took the best offer which was 4 weeks pay for every year you worked there. if we had gone on strike we would have gone to the Governments recommended payments for redundancy. Unlike you we knew where we were better off as we live in the real world loosehead
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Over the Edge says...

loosehead wrote:
Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up?
Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal.
it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it?
so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production?
Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee.
Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?
I agree with you, as a union member even I can see no logic whatsoever in going on strike, you fight battles to win a war, however the war in the case has already been lost, the plant will shut no two ways about it.

£15-£17k on top of an enhanced redundancy package, no brainer isn't the word, you'd have to be as thick as two short blanks or Southy to turn it down.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: Unless I've read the article wrong the £17,000 isn't their redundancy pay but a top up? Ford workers facing redundancy in Southampton are being offered special payments of up to £17,000 to head off possible industrial action, the Daily Echo can reveal. it says nothing about instead of redundancy pay does it? so go on strike get made redundant anyway but lose pay for the strike days & £17,000 for disrupting production? Sorry but it's a no brainer "Give Me The Money" would be my reply if I was a Fords employee. Temps or contractors are not part of the Fords redundancy package & surely before starting there they must have known it would be short lived?[/p][/quote]I agree with you, as a union member even I can see no logic whatsoever in going on strike, you fight battles to win a war, however the war in the case has already been lost, the plant will shut no two ways about it. £15-£17k on top of an enhanced redundancy package, no brainer isn't the word, you'd have to be as thick as two short blanks or Southy to turn it down. Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Tue 30 Oct 12

George4th says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat)

How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!!

Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees.

Do you know what kept Fords going to that point?
It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company!


So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!)
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat) How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!! Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees. Do you know what kept Fords going to that point? It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company! So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!) George4th
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
You're having a laugh aren't you?
Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits?
Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us.
Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us?
Countries would jump at the chance.
Southy the world you want or remember is gone,
We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue.
This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power
Why did they buy them in the first place, for an investment and to take out competion and also to assett strip Jaguar before moving it on.
The Spainish are the only ones who had the right idea on how to treat companys like Fords and that is to make them pay for ever thing, and tell them if you want to sell your goods there then they must build a Factory, and its Funny how that Ford plant in Spain is the only safe Plant in Europe even with the high levels of strikes that have taken place there.
The trouble with Fords they have left them selfs wide open for the Plants to be Nationalise to save jobs and theres not a thing Fords Could do about it as they do not own most of there world wide plants because of there blackmail to governments.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]You're having a laugh aren't you? Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits? Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us. Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us? Countries would jump at the chance. Southy the world you want or remember is gone, We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue. This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power[/p][/quote]Why did they buy them in the first place, for an investment and to take out competion and also to assett strip Jaguar before moving it on. The Spainish are the only ones who had the right idea on how to treat companys like Fords and that is to make them pay for ever thing, and tell them if you want to sell your goods there then they must build a Factory, and its Funny how that Ford plant in Spain is the only safe Plant in Europe even with the high levels of strikes that have taken place there. The trouble with Fords they have left them selfs wide open for the Plants to be Nationalise to save jobs and theres not a thing Fords Could do about it as they do not own most of there world wide plants because of there blackmail to governments. southy
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne, Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Tue 30 Oct 12

freefinker says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits? freefinker
  • Score: 0

12:45pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat)

How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!!

Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees.

Do you know what kept Fords going to that point?
It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company!


So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!)
You can ignore it by the fact it was not a real debt, it was a debt that they got because of the up-dating of the Spainish Ford plant put it up above normal, Fords have well over $600 billion in an off shore tax free banking, also there out goings the yearly cost is only small compair with there incoming the profit that is made after all the deductions, that $34 billion was the total cost, while there incoming was $80 billion, Fords do not like paying out, they will all ways make others pay in one form or another, Shares dividens was suspended by the board to pay for the up-dating of the Spainish plant (the only real plant that Fords owns), This was all talk about at the time.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat) How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!! Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees. Do you know what kept Fords going to that point? It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company! So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!)[/p][/quote]You can ignore it by the fact it was not a real debt, it was a debt that they got because of the up-dating of the Spainish Ford plant put it up above normal, Fords have well over $600 billion in an off shore tax free banking, also there out goings the yearly cost is only small compair with there incoming the profit that is made after all the deductions, that $34 billion was the total cost, while there incoming was $80 billion, Fords do not like paying out, they will all ways make others pay in one form or another, Shares dividens was suspended by the board to pay for the up-dating of the Spainish plant (the only real plant that Fords owns), This was all talk about at the time. southy
  • Score: 0

12:57pm Tue 30 Oct 12

freefinker says...

.. ar, the "not a real debt" argument used again by southy. That's what you said of the UK plc debt as well, back a year or so ago.

Was bunkum then, and still is. Perhaps you would like to define the difference between a real and a not-real debt.
.. ar, the "not a real debt" argument used again by southy. That's what you said of the UK plc debt as well, back a year or so ago. Was bunkum then, and still is. Perhaps you would like to define the difference between a real and a not-real debt. freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free.
Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax.
Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free. Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax. Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe. southy
  • Score: 0

1:08pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free.
Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax.
Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.
'Right Wingers' supporters..? Is that a football team?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free. Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax. Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.[/p][/quote]'Right Wingers' supporters..? Is that a football team? Shoong
  • Score: 0

1:09pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
loosehead wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
You're having a laugh aren't you?
Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits?
Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us.
Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us?
Countries would jump at the chance.
Southy the world you want or remember is gone,
We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue.
This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power
Why did they buy them in the first place, for an investment and to take out competion and also to assett strip Jaguar before moving it on.
The Spainish are the only ones who had the right idea on how to treat companys like Fords and that is to make them pay for ever thing, and tell them if you want to sell your goods there then they must build a Factory, and its Funny how that Ford plant in Spain is the only safe Plant in Europe even with the high levels of strikes that have taken place there.
The trouble with Fords they have left them selfs wide open for the Plants to be Nationalise to save jobs and theres not a thing Fords Could do about it as they do not own most of there world wide plants because of there blackmail to governments.
Yes, blackmail is a terrible thing, like taking 17k not to go on strike.

Terrible, terrible thing.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]You're having a laugh aren't you? Why did they sell a successful Jaguar brand to an Indian company if they were making such profits? Turkey are on lower wages & are cheaper than us. Fords are an American company & don't have to listen to Left wingers they can just shut a plant & say who wants us? Countries would jump at the chance. Southy the world you want or remember is gone, We can try your way but watch unemployment rise as more & more companies leave these shores or we can make it such an attractive place to put a factory or start a business we cut the dole queue. This Governments trying to do exactly that & by the amount of people in employment they are succeeding God help us if any party with your ideas get into power[/p][/quote]Why did they buy them in the first place, for an investment and to take out competion and also to assett strip Jaguar before moving it on. The Spainish are the only ones who had the right idea on how to treat companys like Fords and that is to make them pay for ever thing, and tell them if you want to sell your goods there then they must build a Factory, and its Funny how that Ford plant in Spain is the only safe Plant in Europe even with the high levels of strikes that have taken place there. The trouble with Fords they have left them selfs wide open for the Plants to be Nationalise to save jobs and theres not a thing Fords Could do about it as they do not own most of there world wide plants because of there blackmail to governments.[/p][/quote]Yes, blackmail is a terrible thing, like taking 17k not to go on strike. Terrible, terrible thing. Shoong
  • Score: 0

1:09pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

freefinker here some thing you should believe in seeing that your are a Green supporter and that is Resource Economy and Political Policy, some thing your Capitalist do not want not even your Capitalist Greens, apart from its is Socialism at its best, but the main reason is Capitalist do not benefit from this type of policy, its people on the whole that benefit.
freefinker here some thing you should believe in seeing that your are a Green supporter and that is Resource Economy and Political Policy, some thing your Capitalist do not want not even your Capitalist Greens, apart from its is Socialism at its best, but the main reason is Capitalist do not benefit from this type of policy, its people on the whole that benefit. southy
  • Score: 0

1:19pm Tue 30 Oct 12

southy says...

Shoong posted-
"Yes, blackmail is a terrible thing, like taking 17k not to go on strike.
Terrible, terrible thing."

Yes that is Blackmail to offer them that, its telling the workforce if they strike they have a chance to keeping the plant open and running.
They would not offer any thing, they feared a strike would happen and they was force to keep the plant open or had to offer a lot better deal. Whats the bets that Europe Ford Plants that are striking will save there jobs or get a better deal, Its funny they are only offering this after strike action started in Europe.
Shoong posted- "Yes, blackmail is a terrible thing, like taking 17k not to go on strike. Terrible, terrible thing." Yes that is Blackmail to offer them that, its telling the workforce if they strike they have a chance to keeping the plant open and running. They would not offer any thing, they feared a strike would happen and they was force to keep the plant open or had to offer a lot better deal. Whats the bets that Europe Ford Plants that are striking will save there jobs or get a better deal, Its funny they are only offering this after strike action started in Europe. southy
  • Score: 0

1:23pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Brock_and_Roll says...

Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts.

Anyone know what he does for a living?

I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses! Brock_and_Roll
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 30 Oct 12

hulla baloo says...

Brock_and_Roll wrote:
Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts.

Anyone know what he does for a living?

I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
Yes, but very predictable. Southy makes statement, gets wrong and proved wrong, goes off into rant about capitalists, socialists etc. somewhere Maggie always gets the blame, the occasional Sikh friend gets a mention then goes underground and resurfaces the next day.
[quote][p][bold]Brock_and_Roll[/bold] wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses![/p][/quote]Yes, but very predictable. Southy makes statement, gets wrong and proved wrong, goes off into rant about capitalists, socialists etc. somewhere Maggie always gets the blame, the occasional Sikh friend gets a mention then goes underground and resurfaces the next day. hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Tue 30 Oct 12

George4th says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information.
I repeat:-
In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006.
Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom.
Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year!
>
From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?
Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading.
Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.
How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat)

How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!!

Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees.

Do you know what kept Fords going to that point?
It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company!


So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!)
You can ignore it by the fact it was not a real debt, it was a debt that they got because of the up-dating of the Spainish Ford plant put it up above normal, Fords have well over $600 billion in an off shore tax free banking, also there out goings the yearly cost is only small compair with there incoming the profit that is made after all the deductions, that $34 billion was the total cost, while there incoming was $80 billion, Fords do not like paying out, they will all ways make others pay in one form or another, Shares dividens was suspended by the board to pay for the up-dating of the Spainish plant (the only real plant that Fords owns), This was all talk about at the time.
Whatever you are on is making you more outrageous by the minute.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]Will you please rein in your infinite wisdom and stop putting out false information. I repeat:- In 2006 Fords were on the edge of Bankruptcy when posting a loss of $13 Billion! As I said in a previous comment, Fords went onto being $34 Billion in debt! They had what is called "Junk" status! It was only this year (2012) that they started paying a dividend of 5 cents per share - the first dividend since 2006. Maybe you should go to the next Fords AGM and WOW the shareholders with your infinite wisdom. Explain to them why they went 6 years without a dividend until receiving 5 cents per share earlier this year! > From what you are saying, and because it is guaranteed to make a profit, I take it that you have all your pension investments in Fords?[/p][/quote]Its correct George4th Fords have never been on the edge of Bankruptcy, there profits have never been smaller than the out goings, the paying of dividens is a choice of the board and not subject to the market. they was never suspended by the market watchdog like what happen to British Gas a few years go, when the watchdog ordered the halt to British Gas trading. Check there balance books, Fords have been making Billions in profits above the out goings, Fords sales have not drop below 52% of the market, there biggest lost ever came last mth.[/p][/quote]How can you ignore £34 Billion of debt in 2006? (BEFORE the global financial crisis!) (GM were in the same boat) How would you as a corporate investor not have a return on your money for 6 years?! And then only 5c cent per share!! Do you know what saved them? When the workers in N America realised that the company was on the brink of going bust they capitulated and agreed to radical changes in their pay and conditions. It was the inflated healthcare costs, labour costs and pensions that brought Fords to its knees. Do you know what kept Fords going to that point? It wasn't the cars it was their Credt Company! So, have you got all your pension and investments in Fords? According to you, it is a guaranteed return on your money. (Maybe you should speak with the corporate inverstors first!)[/p][/quote]You can ignore it by the fact it was not a real debt, it was a debt that they got because of the up-dating of the Spainish Ford plant put it up above normal, Fords have well over $600 billion in an off shore tax free banking, also there out goings the yearly cost is only small compair with there incoming the profit that is made after all the deductions, that $34 billion was the total cost, while there incoming was $80 billion, Fords do not like paying out, they will all ways make others pay in one form or another, Shares dividens was suspended by the board to pay for the up-dating of the Spainish plant (the only real plant that Fords owns), This was all talk about at the time.[/p][/quote]Whatever you are on is making you more outrageous by the minute. George4th
  • Score: 0

1:42pm Tue 30 Oct 12

ohec says...

Brock_and_Roll wrote:
Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts.

Anyone know what he does for a living?

I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
More likely sat in an institution or at least he should be, i don't know whether he is a wind up merchant deluded or just as thick as two short planks, i like to read the comments from sane people but he is on another planet.
[quote][p][bold]Brock_and_Roll[/bold] wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses![/p][/quote]More likely sat in an institution or at least he should be, i don't know whether he is a wind up merchant deluded or just as thick as two short planks, i like to read the comments from sane people but he is on another planet. ohec
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Hdg end mo says...

I think on days like this we need Denzil from chilworth back on this site
I think on days like this we need Denzil from chilworth back on this site Hdg end mo
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Brock_and_Roll says...

The way I see it, socialists such as Southy are quite right as to the nature of capitalism - by its very nature it is expoitative as a worker does not receive the full value of his labour as the cpaital provider will be seeking to make a profit.

The socialists are however wrong about the solution to this "problem". In most cases bringing business under state control, whilst on paper enpowers the workers, over time results in lower standards of living for all. The problem is that the competitve nature of capitalism drives effeciencies & innovation that leave state owned business in their wake.

So although it may be disappointing that there is not a British owned car company, what's the alternative? British Leyland MkII?

Capitalism is I am afraid, the least bad option - hence while it generally predominates over the world.
The way I see it, socialists such as Southy are quite right as to the nature of capitalism - by its very nature it is expoitative as a worker does not receive the full value of his labour as the cpaital provider will be seeking to make a profit. The socialists are however wrong about the solution to this "problem". In most cases bringing business under state control, whilst on paper enpowers the workers, over time results in lower standards of living for all. The problem is that the competitve nature of capitalism drives effeciencies & innovation that leave state owned business in their wake. So although it may be disappointing that there is not a British owned car company, what's the alternative? British Leyland MkII? Capitalism is I am afraid, the least bad option - hence while it generally predominates over the world. Brock_and_Roll
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Tue 30 Oct 12

georgetheseventh says...

You people are so PARANOID !!!!!!
every time something happens you start whingeing and screaming and trying to drag the whole UK down with you.
Get used to it..the rest of the world has..your jobs for life dont exist anymore.
You people are so PARANOID !!!!!! every time something happens you start whingeing and screaming and trying to drag the whole UK down with you. Get used to it..the rest of the world has..your jobs for life dont exist anymore. georgetheseventh
  • Score: 0

1:58pm Tue 30 Oct 12

georgetheseventh says...

Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies.
[quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies. georgetheseventh
  • Score: 0

2:15pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
How will a strike help their jobs?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]How will a strike help their jobs? Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:17pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST.
What is there to save?
Yes they said the same thing a couple of years ago, but the guys went on strike and manage to keep the Chassis Cabs being build here.
If you don't strike and put up a fight, you have lost, but if you strike and fight for what is right then you stand a chance.
Worse thing that can happen to Fords now is an International Strike and that as all ready started, even the safe Ford Plant in Spain (the only factory that fords had to pay for) came out on strike to support other ford factorys that are out on strike
The plant is closing. That is the bottom line. Ford aren't going to change their mind because the workers they're laying off anyway decide to throw a tantrum.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]Strike to keep what jobs? Are you reading the same report? The jobs are LOST, I repeat LOST. What is there to save?[/p][/quote]Yes they said the same thing a couple of years ago, but the guys went on strike and manage to keep the Chassis Cabs being build here. If you don't strike and put up a fight, you have lost, but if you strike and fight for what is right then you stand a chance. Worse thing that can happen to Fords now is an International Strike and that as all ready started, even the safe Ford Plant in Spain (the only factory that fords had to pay for) came out on strike to support other ford factorys that are out on strike[/p][/quote]The plant is closing. That is the bottom line. Ford aren't going to change their mind because the workers they're laying off anyway decide to throw a tantrum. Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:20pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Torchie1 says...

Brock_and_Roll wrote:
Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts.

Anyone know what he does for a living?

I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses.
[quote][p][bold]Brock_and_Roll[/bold] wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses![/p][/quote]Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

Hdg end mo wrote:
I think on days like this we need Denzil from chilworth back on this site
Pretty sure he's still here, under another name.
[quote][p][bold]Hdg end mo[/bold] wrote: I think on days like this we need Denzil from chilworth back on this site[/p][/quote]Pretty sure he's still here, under another name. Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free.
Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax.
Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.
Look, I'd love for the Ford plant to stay open and for the workers to keep their jobs. Nobody wants to see redundancies. The knock on effects you describe, yep, I pretty much agree with you. Pretending this isn't a gloomy prospect is silly.

But it's Ford's call, and nobody else's. That's how things work in the real world. Owners get to call shots.

Quite why recognising this fact gets us all branded as "right winger supporters" is a mystery to me. All that tells me is, the opposite if "right wing supporter" is "cloud cuckoolander who still believes in the tooth fairy".

The problem with you, southy, is that you're utterly fixated on how you would like things to be, and cannot accept cold hard facts that don't fit into it.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free. Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax. Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.[/p][/quote]Look, I'd love for the Ford plant to stay open and for the workers to keep their jobs. Nobody wants to see redundancies. The knock on effects you describe, yep, I pretty much agree with you. Pretending this isn't a gloomy prospect is silly. But it's Ford's call, and nobody else's. That's how things work in the real world. Owners get to call shots. Quite why recognising this fact gets us all branded as "right winger supporters" is a mystery to me. All that tells me is, the opposite if "right wing supporter" is "cloud cuckoolander who still believes in the tooth fairy". The problem with you, southy, is that you're utterly fixated on how you would like things to be, and cannot accept cold hard facts that don't fit into it. Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

freefinker wrote:
.. ar, the "not a real debt" argument used again by southy. That's what you said of the UK plc debt as well, back a year or so ago.

Was bunkum then, and still is. Perhaps you would like to define the difference between a real and a not-real debt.
It's patently obvious southy doesn't understand the word 'debt'. He's unable to fathom, for example, that it's possible to be both solvent, and to have debt, at the same time, despite the fact that virtually every person and business on the planet is in that exact situation.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: .. ar, the "not a real debt" argument used again by southy. That's what you said of the UK plc debt as well, back a year or so ago. Was bunkum then, and still is. Perhaps you would like to define the difference between a real and a not-real debt.[/p][/quote]It's patently obvious southy doesn't understand the word 'debt'. He's unable to fathom, for example, that it's possible to be both solvent, and to have debt, at the same time, despite the fact that virtually every person and business on the planet is in that exact situation. Georgem
  • Score: 0

2:34pm Tue 30 Oct 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
freefinker here some thing you should believe in seeing that your are a Green supporter and that is Resource Economy and Political Policy, some thing your Capitalist do not want not even your Capitalist Greens, apart from its is Socialism at its best, but the main reason is Capitalist do not benefit from this type of policy, its people on the whole that benefit.
.. the above collection of words is totally incomprehensible.

But it appears you are YET AGAIN linking me with the Green Party. As I have mentioned on this site on at least four occasions (now, at least five) I am NOT a member of the Green Party, I have NEVER been a member of the Green Party and I have no intention of EVER being a member of the Green Party.

How is it you can’t remember this simple fact?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: freefinker here some thing you should believe in seeing that your are a Green supporter and that is Resource Economy and Political Policy, some thing your Capitalist do not want not even your Capitalist Greens, apart from its is Socialism at its best, but the main reason is Capitalist do not benefit from this type of policy, its people on the whole that benefit.[/p][/quote].. the above collection of words is totally incomprehensible. But it appears you are YET AGAIN linking me with the Green Party. As I have mentioned on this site on at least four occasions (now, at least five) I am NOT a member of the Green Party, I have NEVER been a member of the Green Party and I have no intention of EVER being a member of the Green Party. How is it you can’t remember this simple fact? freefinker
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Over the Edge says...

georgetheseventh wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies.
Not one of my allies, hated the old Tory barsteward.
[quote][p][bold]georgetheseventh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies.[/p][/quote]Not one of my allies, hated the old Tory barsteward. Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Over the Edge says...

georgetheseventh wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies.
Not one of my allies, hated the old Tory barsteward.
[quote][p][bold]georgetheseventh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No..the bloke on the bike is Norman Tebbit..one of your 'old' allies.[/p][/quote]Not one of my allies, hated the old Tory barsteward. Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

2:49pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Brock_and_Roll says...

Torchie1 wrote:
Brock_and_Roll wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses.
How disappointing!

You certainly cannot say that the political scene is dull in Southampton. Round my neck of the woods they would elect a hedgehog if it had a blue rosette pinned to it - regardless of your views, the lack of competition makes the debate poorer and less interesting.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brock_and_Roll[/bold] wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses![/p][/quote]Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses.[/p][/quote]How disappointing! You certainly cannot say that the political scene is dull in Southampton. Round my neck of the woods they would elect a hedgehog if it had a blue rosette pinned to it - regardless of your views, the lack of competition makes the debate poorer and less interesting. Brock_and_Roll
  • Score: 0

2:55pm Tue 30 Oct 12

freefinker says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free.
Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax.
Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.
Look, I'd love for the Ford plant to stay open and for the workers to keep their jobs. Nobody wants to see redundancies. The knock on effects you describe, yep, I pretty much agree with you. Pretending this isn't a gloomy prospect is silly.

But it's Ford's call, and nobody else's. That's how things work in the real world. Owners get to call shots.

Quite why recognising this fact gets us all branded as "right winger supporters" is a mystery to me. All that tells me is, the opposite if "right wing supporter" is "cloud cuckoolander who still believes in the tooth fairy".

The problem with you, southy, is that you're utterly fixated on how you would like things to be, and cannot accept cold hard facts that don't fit into it.
.. indeed.

Let's look at southy's solution - the workers go on strike 'to keep their jobs'.
AGAINST: lose wages, lose 17K - and still lose jobs.
FOR: er, er, no, there is absolutely nothing in the ‘for’ column.

It would seem the strike option is only favoured by unemployed Trotskyists, with secure private incomes, living in mortgage free bought council homes, and with no understanding what-so-ever of the financial positions of individual Ford employees.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]The staff should go for keeping the plant open and saving jobs free. Think of the knock on effect also how many more will lose there jobs, you will need to add on those that supply Fords and you will need to count those right down to the Sales Garages and Docks and then there what will it do to the local econony more people not being able to spend like they normally do in the economy, so your going to get more job losses, and then theres the having to pay out on unemployment benefit, and housing benefit and a reductions in Council tax. Trouble with your Right Wingers supporters they do not think of the implecations, they do not see the bigger picture of it all, they only believe in what the Capitalist tell them to believe.[/p][/quote]Look, I'd love for the Ford plant to stay open and for the workers to keep their jobs. Nobody wants to see redundancies. The knock on effects you describe, yep, I pretty much agree with you. Pretending this isn't a gloomy prospect is silly. But it's Ford's call, and nobody else's. That's how things work in the real world. Owners get to call shots. Quite why recognising this fact gets us all branded as "right winger supporters" is a mystery to me. All that tells me is, the opposite if "right wing supporter" is "cloud cuckoolander who still believes in the tooth fairy". The problem with you, southy, is that you're utterly fixated on how you would like things to be, and cannot accept cold hard facts that don't fit into it.[/p][/quote].. indeed. Let's look at southy's solution - the workers go on strike 'to keep their jobs'. AGAINST: lose wages, lose 17K - and still lose jobs. FOR: er, er, no, there is absolutely nothing in the ‘for’ column. It would seem the strike option is only favoured by unemployed Trotskyists, with secure private incomes, living in mortgage free bought council homes, and with no understanding what-so-ever of the financial positions of individual Ford employees. freefinker
  • Score: 0

3:24pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Cyber__Fug says...

Torchie1 wrote:
Brock_and_Roll wrote:
Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts.

Anyone know what he does for a living?

I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses!
Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses.
and dont forget that being the true socialist that he is he took full advantage of Maggies policies and bought his council house !!!
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Brock_and_Roll[/bold] wrote: Whilst I dont share his views, I do enjoy Southy's posts. Anyone know what he does for a living? I would like to think he is currently sitting in the study of his £10m pile drinking port, smoking a cigar whilst stirring up the masses![/p][/quote]Look up the candidates information for the last SCC elections and the home address is a council semi on a run down estate. Try a £125K pile, brown ale, bootleg roll ups and entertaining the masses.[/p][/quote]and dont forget that being the true socialist that he is he took full advantage of Maggies policies and bought his council house !!! Cyber__Fug
  • Score: 0

6:07pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Gainer T Gopher says...

I think Ford are being fair.... they have given plenty of notice for people to get other jobs...... personally if I were Ford I wouldn't have offered the 17K not to strike..... my offer would be this: "Don't strike and the factory stays open until July 2013 and we continue paying you and helping you get alternative employment until it dies it's slow death or Strike and the factory will be closed with immediate effect, no help, no pay until July...."
I think Ford are being fair.... they have given plenty of notice for people to get other jobs...... personally if I were Ford I wouldn't have offered the 17K not to strike..... my offer would be this: "Don't strike and the factory stays open until July 2013 and we continue paying you and helping you get alternative employment until it dies it's slow death or Strike and the factory will be closed with immediate effect, no help, no pay until July...." Gainer T Gopher
  • Score: 0

6:19pm Tue 30 Oct 12

thesaint says...

George4th wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
Quite correct.
In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home!
what utter rubbish ,did you get a education or do you and the other village idiot who really that stupid..i expect your one of those people who was turned down for a ford job because your to lazy and had a chip on your shoulder ever since or envy,
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]Quite correct. In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home![/p][/quote]what utter rubbish ,did you get a education or do you and the other village idiot who really that stupid..i expect your one of those people who was turned down for a ford job because your to lazy and had a chip on your shoulder ever since or envy, thesaint
  • Score: 0

6:23pm Tue 30 Oct 12

thesaint says...

Gainer T Gopher wrote:
I think Ford are being fair.... they have given plenty of notice for people to get other jobs...... personally if I were Ford I wouldn't have offered the 17K not to strike..... my offer would be this: "Don't strike and the factory stays open until July 2013 and we continue paying you and helping you get alternative employment until it dies it's slow death or Strike and the factory will be closed with immediate effect, no help, no pay until July...."
good post
[quote][p][bold]Gainer T Gopher[/bold] wrote: I think Ford are being fair.... they have given plenty of notice for people to get other jobs...... personally if I were Ford I wouldn't have offered the 17K not to strike..... my offer would be this: "Don't strike and the factory stays open until July 2013 and we continue paying you and helping you get alternative employment until it dies it's slow death or Strike and the factory will be closed with immediate effect, no help, no pay until July...."[/p][/quote]good post thesaint
  • Score: 0

6:25pm Tue 30 Oct 12

George4th says...

thesaint wrote:
George4th wrote:
G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
Quite correct.
In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home!
what utter rubbish ,did you get a education or do you and the other village idiot who really that stupid..i expect your one of those people who was turned down for a ford job because your to lazy and had a chip on your shoulder ever since or envy,
Alas, in those Ford days, I was one of those individuals who was happy doing a hard days work so Fords was not going to be for me................
[quote][p][bold]thesaint[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]Quite correct. In years gone by, what didn't help was the culture of doing as little as possible. For example, the night shift had quotas-they would knock off the quota in an hour or so and then sleep for the rest of the shift! Saved them sleeping when they got home![/p][/quote]what utter rubbish ,did you get a education or do you and the other village idiot who really that stupid..i expect your one of those people who was turned down for a ford job because your to lazy and had a chip on your shoulder ever since or envy,[/p][/quote]Alas, in those Ford days, I was one of those individuals who was happy doing a hard days work so Fords was not going to be for me................ George4th
  • Score: 0

6:54pm Tue 30 Oct 12

bobbyboy says...

It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me. bobbyboy
  • Score: 0

6:56pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
Freefinker I have very clearly stated my view that '"people should stop patronising'" the workers involved.

Yes we all can have our views, but this matter is too serious for workers involved. They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them. As outsider I can only express my support and soliderity with whatever workers may decide to be in their best interest.

Hope your good self and many more will also do the same.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]Freefinker I have very clearly stated my view that '"people should stop patronising'" the workers involved. Yes we all can have our views, but this matter is too serious for workers involved. They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them. As outsider I can only express my support and soliderity with whatever workers may decide to be in their best interest. Hope your good self and many more will also do the same. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

7:24pm Tue 30 Oct 12

saint61 says...

Contractors to strike as they have nothing to lose. Plant will close at Christmas as the work will be moved to Turkey. All contractors within the plant are absolutely livid. Ford portray a ONE SOUTHAMPTON policy and call them partners. Time for an early divorce. Contractors being the male in the relationship as they end up with nothing from the split.
Contractors to strike as they have nothing to lose. Plant will close at Christmas as the work will be moved to Turkey. All contractors within the plant are absolutely livid. Ford portray a ONE SOUTHAMPTON policy and call them partners. Time for an early divorce. Contractors being the male in the relationship as they end up with nothing from the split. saint61
  • Score: 0

7:46pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Georgem says...

bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
What did you forgive your lunch breaks for?
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]What did you forgive your lunch breaks for? Georgem
  • Score: 0

8:30pm Tue 30 Oct 12

freefinker says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords.

Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed.

Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit.

Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies.

Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,
.. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?
Freefinker I have very clearly stated my view that '"people should stop patronising'" the workers involved.

Yes we all can have our views, but this matter is too serious for workers involved. They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them. As outsider I can only express my support and soliderity with whatever workers may decide to be in their best interest.

Hope your good self and many more will also do the same.
.. yes, Paramjit, agree wholeheartedly. This is a very sobering situation for the Ford workers and they will have to think long and hard about how to handle this unfortunate situation.

My contribution to this thread has been to pour scorn on the positions southy has taken, namely (a) they MUST go on strike to save their jobs and (b) the production must continue once the whole works has been nationalised.

Look, I’m much nearer to your political position on the Old Labour Socialist Left than I could ever be to NuLabour. But we are where we are. Nothing can stop Ford pulling out if they are determined to do so. Quite frankly, it’s their prerogative. It’s extremely unfortunate for all the workers and those supplying the factory; as well as the economy of this city.

However spouting the absolute rubbish paraded on this thread by southy is pure fantasy, not to mention fiscally inaccurate re profits/debt and hopelessly naïve re continuing production as a nationalised set-up.

As you say “They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them”. I’m totally certain they will not be taking advice from southy, because, quite frankly, he does not have “their best interest” at heart. It’s just another opportunity to push the Trotskyist utopian dream – a wholly unrealistic vision that refuses to take account of the actual real world.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Feel sorry for all the workers, both employed directly by Ford and others including those working for suppliers to Ford. People should stop patronising them and respect what ever decision they make about how to deal with problems created by ruthless Fords. Multi National Companies are notorious, experts at mistreating not only their employees but also the governments. They have loyalty to none other than their own unlimited greed. Only way to deal with these mega businesses is for both workers and governments to organise at international level to confront these corporations with united front. But sadly in dog eating dog culture of our world that dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise. And MNCs are fully aware of that weakness, which they exploit. Here locally on paper 15K or 17k offered to workers may appear good to some, but only if there were other employment opportunities available. Sadly there are many employed chasing very few vacancies. Yes it is easy for likes of me to express usual solidarity with victims of not only Ford but also of economic climate created by others with the full blessings of all three main political parties of our country(Which are only different by names but otherwise are virtually the same). But that sympathy is not going to pay their bills, which keep on going up and up, unless of course if you are super rich whose tax rates were reduced from 50p to 45p by out of touch arrogant posh boy George Osborne,[/p][/quote].. so, as the “dream of solidarity will remain only theoretical exercise” I presume in the harsh light of reality, and unlike southy, you accept the plant is going to close and the staff should go for the £17K of extra benefits?[/p][/quote]Freefinker I have very clearly stated my view that '"people should stop patronising'" the workers involved. Yes we all can have our views, but this matter is too serious for workers involved. They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them. As outsider I can only express my support and soliderity with whatever workers may decide to be in their best interest. Hope your good self and many more will also do the same.[/p][/quote].. yes, Paramjit, agree wholeheartedly. This is a very sobering situation for the Ford workers and they will have to think long and hard about how to handle this unfortunate situation. My contribution to this thread has been to pour scorn on the positions southy has taken, namely (a) they MUST go on strike to save their jobs and (b) the production must continue once the whole works has been nationalised. Look, I’m much nearer to your political position on the Old Labour Socialist Left than I could ever be to NuLabour. But we are where we are. Nothing can stop Ford pulling out if they are determined to do so. Quite frankly, it’s their prerogative. It’s extremely unfortunate for all the workers and those supplying the factory; as well as the economy of this city. However spouting the absolute rubbish paraded on this thread by southy is pure fantasy, not to mention fiscally inaccurate re profits/debt and hopelessly naïve re continuing production as a nationalised set-up. As you say “They are intelligent people, should decide what approach they think to be best for them”. I’m totally certain they will not be taking advice from southy, because, quite frankly, he does not have “their best interest” at heart. It’s just another opportunity to push the Trotskyist utopian dream – a wholly unrealistic vision that refuses to take account of the actual real world. freefinker
  • Score: 0

9:00pm Tue 30 Oct 12

Sir Ad E Noid says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
Over the Edge wrote:
Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing.

£15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do?

Guess there won't be a strike
No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs.
A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.
They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank.
Not a bad deal.
They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going,
As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.
You are truly the most stupid person I have ever observed to commit thought to the written word. They are shutting the factory, Fords are leaving Southampton, end of. Striking will achieve only one thing, the loss of the £17,000 "bonus" for allowing Fords to leave without any grief. If you can't see that or think strike action will change anything then you are truly a dangerous, and selfish, person.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Over the Edge[/bold] wrote: Which one in the picture is Vince Cable? the bloke on the bike I'm guessing. £15k -£17k not to strike,,,,,what would you do? Guess there won't be a strike[/p][/quote]No theres going to be a strike, what is £17k not alot they would earn more by keeping there jobs. A better offer was made to those in Europe, and they have gone out strike all ready, they know what is offered amounts to nothing to company whos profits have all ways out weight the losses by billions, and what is offered is not alot considering how much they would lose in pay by not having a job, and not likely to find a new job.[/p][/quote]They are being offered 17k NOT to strike, which, as I assume they would continue working, would be in addition to their wages. If they continue working until July, the would probably find another job by then, with an extra 17k in the bank. Not a bad deal.[/p][/quote]They will strike to keep there jobs, they stand to gain a lot more by keeping there jobs going, As for finding a new job very unlikely the jobs are not there to be had, 17K is not a good seal at all, its just 1 year wage when they are more than likely not work for the rest of there lifes.[/p][/quote]You are truly the most stupid person I have ever observed to commit thought to the written word. They are shutting the factory, Fords are leaving Southampton, end of. Striking will achieve only one thing, the loss of the £17,000 "bonus" for allowing Fords to leave without any grief. If you can't see that or think strike action will change anything then you are truly a dangerous, and selfish, person. Sir Ad E Noid
  • Score: 0

9:15pm Tue 30 Oct 12

loosehead says...

bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland. loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:21pm Tue 30 Oct 12

loosehead says...

When BAT shut it's factory where were all the Southy's?
Some of our work force went to Fords as contract workers but moved as soon as they could as even then most workers ( permanent & temp.) knew the plant was doomed.
Why act the way the Contractors are? hard done by? NO they've had employment on a contract that contract has now ended so why do they expect super pay outs?
On construction sites many workers are contractors do they get a big pay out when the build comes to an end except their pay?
I hope these permanent workers don't strike & if they're interested Honda & Toyota are taking experienced workers on or so ITV says
When BAT shut it's factory where were all the Southy's? Some of our work force went to Fords as contract workers but moved as soon as they could as even then most workers ( permanent & temp.) knew the plant was doomed. Why act the way the Contractors are? hard done by? NO they've had employment on a contract that contract has now ended so why do they expect super pay outs? On construction sites many workers are contractors do they get a big pay out when the build comes to an end except their pay? I hope these permanent workers don't strike & if they're interested Honda & Toyota are taking experienced workers on or so ITV says loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:39pm Tue 30 Oct 12

gillyman says...

G0Rf wrote:
If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?
hey broken brain i work there and no strike action has occurred for a long time i suppose you are one of our unemployed couch potatoes
[quote][p][bold]G0Rf[/bold] wrote: If they didnt keep striking all the time they wouldnt have lost their jobs in the first place?[/p][/quote]hey broken brain i work there and no strike action has occurred for a long time i suppose you are one of our unemployed couch potatoes gillyman
  • Score: 0

9:52pm Tue 30 Oct 12

saint61 says...

Anyone aware that the unions have actually asked for 52 weeks blacmsil money and not the 26 that equates to 26 weeks?
Anyone aware that the unions have actually asked for 52 weeks blacmsil money and not the 26 that equates to 26 weeks? saint61
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Tue 30 Oct 12

saint61 says...

Anyone aware that the unions have actually asked for 52 weeks blackmail money and not 26 weeks that 17k on average equates to.
Anyone aware that the unions have actually asked for 52 weeks blackmail money and not 26 weeks that 17k on average equates to. saint61
  • Score: 0

10:35pm Tue 30 Oct 12

MGRA says...

unions are slowly becoming irrelevant. The 500 jobs will be replaced with commerce jobs on that site. Union free. The age of the dinosaur is coming to an end. The fact that they are even talking about a strike is hilarious......RIP unions.
unions are slowly becoming irrelevant. The 500 jobs will be replaced with commerce jobs on that site. Union free. The age of the dinosaur is coming to an end. The fact that they are even talking about a strike is hilarious......RIP unions. MGRA
  • Score: 0

8:31am Wed 31 Oct 12

pod says...

loosehead wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
members of my family have worked at fords since 1953, some are still there. In all those years there have been less than 5 strikes at the Southampton plant. There have been lay-offs due to other firms striking, short term working and other factors but very little strikes, this is a myth. Fords have been a good employer with the majority of men working hard on very difficult work patterns to feed their families and keep roofs over their heads.
It will be a very sad for this area when the factory finally closes, but it will close and people will have to get on with their lives and they will cos most of us do just that - get on with it.
I am sick of reading the c*&^ that some people write on here without knowing the facts. Most of the men leaving this time cannot wait to get out, the older ones can wind down and enjoy time with their families, the younger ones with more responsibilities will struggle possibly having to relocate, but they will cope, because they have to.
Good luck to them all.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.[/p][/quote]members of my family have worked at fords since 1953, some are still there. In all those years there have been less than 5 strikes at the Southampton plant. There have been lay-offs due to other firms striking, short term working and other factors but very little strikes, this is a myth. Fords have been a good employer with the majority of men working hard on very difficult work patterns to feed their families and keep roofs over their heads. It will be a very sad for this area when the factory finally closes, but it will close and people will have to get on with their lives and they will cos most of us do just that - get on with it. I am sick of reading the c*&^ that some people write on here without knowing the facts. Most of the men leaving this time cannot wait to get out, the older ones can wind down and enjoy time with their families, the younger ones with more responsibilities will struggle possibly having to relocate, but they will cope, because they have to. Good luck to them all. pod
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Wed 31 Oct 12

wilson castaway says...

loosehead wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.[/p][/quote]Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs. wilson castaway
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Wed 31 Oct 12

wilson castaway says...

loosehead wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.[/p][/quote]Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs. wilson castaway
  • Score: 0

12:19pm Wed 31 Oct 12

wilson castaway says...

loosehead wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.[/p][/quote]Gorf : If they didn.t keep striking all the time they would of kept their jobs. wilson castaway
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Wed 31 Oct 12

loosehead says...

pod wrote:
loosehead wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.
I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking?
But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot.
The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.
members of my family have worked at fords since 1953, some are still there. In all those years there have been less than 5 strikes at the Southampton plant. There have been lay-offs due to other firms striking, short term working and other factors but very little strikes, this is a myth. Fords have been a good employer with the majority of men working hard on very difficult work patterns to feed their families and keep roofs over their heads.
It will be a very sad for this area when the factory finally closes, but it will close and people will have to get on with their lives and they will cos most of us do just that - get on with it.
I am sick of reading the c*&^ that some people write on here without knowing the facts. Most of the men leaving this time cannot wait to get out, the older ones can wind down and enjoy time with their families, the younger ones with more responsibilities will struggle possibly having to relocate, but they will cope, because they have to.
Good luck to them all.
Pod read it again Fords workers did strike a lot in the past the word is Fords not Swaythling.
I remember car production in this country by Fords where did it go & why?
[quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: It angers me some of the comments made on here by jerks that have never work at Fords or in industry.To say we always striked is total B-ll-cks to say we slept at night and still produce over 250 vehicles per long shift (nights to the sleepy heads) we often forgave our lunch breaks to continue production we worked in all kinds of weathers yes inside with large doors open so you either got cold or too hot in summer we didnt have a good air conditioning like your smutty offices our rewards for too much heat was either a short break or a small cup of orange juice.I feel deeply sorry for the lads left behind as this goes against the reasons we were asked to leave with redundancy/early retirement that was to secure the plants future so dont blame the Indians untill you get all the facts. Good luck Lads for the future there _uck all out here to reemploy you at the moment trust me.[/p][/quote]I've looked through the posts where does it say the present Ford workers are always striking? But if you talking about the past they did strike a lot. The one thing that has been said about striking car workers was by me & it was about British Leyland.[/p][/quote]members of my family have worked at fords since 1953, some are still there. In all those years there have been less than 5 strikes at the Southampton plant. There have been lay-offs due to other firms striking, short term working and other factors but very little strikes, this is a myth. Fords have been a good employer with the majority of men working hard on very difficult work patterns to feed their families and keep roofs over their heads. It will be a very sad for this area when the factory finally closes, but it will close and people will have to get on with their lives and they will cos most of us do just that - get on with it. I am sick of reading the c*&^ that some people write on here without knowing the facts. Most of the men leaving this time cannot wait to get out, the older ones can wind down and enjoy time with their families, the younger ones with more responsibilities will struggle possibly having to relocate, but they will cope, because they have to. Good luck to them all.[/p][/quote]Pod read it again Fords workers did strike a lot in the past the word is Fords not Swaythling. I remember car production in this country by Fords where did it go & why? loosehead
  • Score: 0

4:23pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Fatty x Ford Worker says...

I would like to know the Head Count of Staff who are Ford Employees and the Contractor Head Count.This will make interesting reading as I thought all the Ford Men Hourly Paid took the last Redundancy Package a few years ago!
I would like to know the Head Count of Staff who are Ford Employees and the Contractor Head Count.This will make interesting reading as I thought all the Ford Men Hourly Paid took the last Redundancy Package a few years ago! Fatty x Ford Worker
  • Score: 0

6:02pm Fri 2 Nov 12

loosehead says...

Fatty x Ford Worker wrote:
I would like to know the Head Count of Staff who are Ford Employees and the Contractor Head Count.This will make interesting reading as I thought all the Ford Men Hourly Paid took the last Redundancy Package a few years ago!
well then I know of at least one
[quote][p][bold]Fatty x Ford Worker[/bold] wrote: I would like to know the Head Count of Staff who are Ford Employees and the Contractor Head Count.This will make interesting reading as I thought all the Ford Men Hourly Paid took the last Redundancy Package a few years ago![/p][/quote]well then I know of at least one loosehead
  • Score: 0

3:46pm Mon 5 Nov 12

ohec says...

Perhaps we should accept the fact that southy is a genius and everybody else is stupid, everybody keeps trying to educate him but it just doesn't sink in or perhaps it does sink in but gets bogged down with all the **** thats in his head.
Perhaps we should accept the fact that southy is a genius and everybody else is stupid, everybody keeps trying to educate him but it just doesn't sink in or perhaps it does sink in but gets bogged down with all the **** thats in his head. ohec
  • Score: 0

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