Parents' anger at imminent closure of Our Place preschool in Hedge End

11:14am Thursday 19th July 2012 in Eastleigh Photograph of the Author By Sian Davies, Senior News Reporter

ANGRY: Parents and youngsters at the Our Place Nursery. Echo picture by Paul Collins. Order no: 14759682 Buy this photo » ANGRY: Parents and youngsters at the Our Place Nursery. Echo picture by Paul Collins. Order no: 14759682

PARENTS of more than 20 children say they have been left devastated after being told their pre-school is to close within days.

The Our Place preschool in Hedge End will close its doors today after group leaders announced they were unable to afford a rent hike.

The popular group has met at the United Reformed Church in St John’s Road for the past eight years but those who run the group say they can no longer operate after members of the church agreed to increase the rent by a third.

According to the United Reformed Church the group has been paying a reduced rent for a number of years which now means the self funded church is running at a loss.

They claim increases in utility bills meant it was faced with raising the rent or losing the church.

But parents say the sudden demand has left them with less than a week to find new places in alternative pre schools in the area before they close for the end of term.

Mum of two Danielle Rowe said: “We’ve all shed tears and we will shed some more before the week is out. We are just all in shock that a church would do this. Apparently there is nothing we can do, this could happen to any pre-school. I really feel there should be some protection for community pre schools like ours against sudden increases in rent that just can’t be covered.”

No one from the nursery, which employs eight staff, wanted to comment on the closure.

The Rev Mike Perrott is the pastor who ministers at the church once a month. Although not involved with the day-to-day running of the church or any financial matters, Rev Perrott said church members were faced with a difficult choice.

“It is my understanding that it has been an ongoing issue that the pre-school did not pay the same rent as other groups and it came to a point that it had to be addressed.

“Around two months ago a meeting was held about the matter, outlining that the church was running at a loss. It simply could not pay its utility bills for gas and electricity with the rental income it was charging the pre-school.

“It was with enormous sadness that the decision was taken but it came down to either raising the rent of the preschool or putting the church’s future in doubt as, being a charity, it simply can’t afford to go into the red.”

He said the decision was made by the regular members of the church, that number around a dozen elderly parishioners, in order to safeguard the immediate future of the church itself.

A goodbye picnic for children, staff, and parents is planned for today’s final session.

Comments(28)

loosehead says...
12:33pm Thu 19 Jul 12

So wouldn't the parent's be willing to pay the increase?
Surely if it's that good in the best interest's of the children you'd pay a bit more?

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stacey782 says...
1:03pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Obviously you haven't got children as from 3 years old they are entitled to 15 hours free schooling from the government and a lot of the parents would love to pay the extra but unfortunately money doesn't grow on trees!!! It is one of the best pre-school's around the area and will be sorely missed especially by the children.

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claireybells1983 says...
2:05pm Thu 19 Jul 12

the goverment sets the rates of pay so they cant just raise the amount just because the church decides to raise the rent by a stupid amount, the point is, its a church and therefore going against what the bible says. Yes all the staff at that pre school are there to earn money at the end of the day its a job,however! 3 of my children have gone there over the past 5 and half yrs and i no all the staff are there because they want to be,they are there to help the children learn and develop and love the children dearly.The commisioners should be ashamed that not only are they making many people unemployed,children that were due to return there in september are now having to search for a new pre school, settlle in again and make all new freinds just because of money!! its disgusting, especially from a church. personally i will miss the staff alot and am gutted my baby will not be going to such a lovely,welcoming,car
ing pre school like Our Place Pre School like my other children did!

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diesel64 says...
2:27pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Its obviously unfortunately and I feel for all those involved parents and children but havent they said its because of their soaring bills so how are they supposed to find this extra money ?

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stacey782 says...
3:03pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Its supposed to be a charity church well i have never seen them out and about. i am sure the pre-school would have helped with the charity fund raising if they had been asked and as a parent i would have helped. As for soaring bills does it really justify raising the rent by around 35% surely not. So what is going to happen now they have no income from the pre-school so what they will only open the church when they are there which is how many times a week and thats it. Surely they will be running at more of a loss now than they were before

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loosehead says...
3:16pm Thu 19 Jul 12

So you all want something for nothing then?
You want the Government to pay?
You want the Church to run at a loss?
You say moneys tight?
How many of you work?
How many could look after your own child?
I know this type of thing is good for the childs development but surely a truly loving parent would find the extra money to keep this facility wouldn't they?
Exactly how much more do the church want? spread out amongst the parents exactly how much would it be per parent?
Or is this a case of you want the facility but don't want to pay for it?
My sister-in-law who lives in London paid at least £100 per week ( I think it wads considerably more) both her & her husband worked & her wages paid for this for their son.
That's a caring parent wouldn't you say?

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loosehead says...
3:21pm Thu 19 Jul 12

stacey782 wrote:
Its supposed to be a charity church well i have never seen them out and about. i am sure the pre-school would have helped with the charity fund raising if they had been asked and as a parent i would have helped. As for soaring bills does it really justify raising the rent by around 35% surely not. So what is going to happen now they have no income from the pre-school so what they will only open the church when they are there which is how many times a week and thats it. Surely they will be running at more of a loss now than they were before
No electric bill or gas bill to cover you've answered your own question

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Solitary One says...
4:20pm Thu 19 Jul 12

I wouldnt worry too much on Looseheads comments as always has an opinion about everything however knowing the preschool as I do it has been run very well is is of enormous benefit to the children as they develop. Maybe a more structured and gradual rise would of helped rather than 35% in one hit. now according to loosehead all of us parents should pay the extra. Yes as far as I am aware all the parents work or at least one of them does. However what you are failing to understand is the government set the rates of pay so the nursery are unable to charge more. so what options do they have? Communication between the two parties could of been better then perhaps an earlier solution could have been brought to the table but in this instance as I understand it around one weeks notice of the impending rise was given...Leaving no time to raise or arrange anything other than the dissolution of the nursery. now far be it for me to see a conspiracy theory I suspect there may be more of a story in what will replace the nursery and who they may be friends/related too but we will see......

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diesel64 says...
4:41pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Perhaps if the government set the rates of pay and that cannot change could it not be paid for by the parents as a donation to the church - all donating a regular amount each month - dont know if this is possible just a thought.

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claireybells1983 says...
5:09pm Thu 19 Jul 12

loosehead....where do i start. to answer your questions yes i do work infact i work 2 jobs and my husband leaves the house at 8 oclock in the morning and sometimes doesnt get home till 9 at night, have 4 kids,own our own house but i dont no why we have to justify ourselves to you, u may be sum millionnaire that can afford to sit on here bascially accusing us of not wanting the best for our children but that fact we are so upset is because we do want the best for our children. we are not saying we anything for free cos u must b a fool to think things are free in life but if you had to go find another playschool and watch your child try and settle in new surroundings again, maybe not even finding a placement i think you may have something to say.however we can see you have no interest in the childrens welfare on this you would just like to accuse every1 of sitting on there backsides doing nothing which is exactly what your doing probably with no children as you keep refering to your sister inlaw rather than yourself when probably more of the parents at this pre school work than not!

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claireybells1983 says...
5:15pm Thu 19 Jul 12

and on another note so what if none of us worked doesnt mean we dont want the best for our children,totally the oppisite!

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stacey782 says...
5:19pm Thu 19 Jul 12

I agree nothing in life is free however when it comes to childrens education things need to be sorted out. These children love their pre-school and it is unsettling for them to have to go elsewhere and make new friends and bonds. When it comes down to donating money loosehead we could have come to arrangements the fact of being told on the Sunday and the school closing the following week for summer holidays hasnt given anyone any time to sort anything else out and the pre-school has to be cleared out by the end of the month come on doesnt really sound fair does it!!!!!! How can you justify 35% increase straight off and have the church actually proved they are running at a loss? probably not. I think an arrangement could have been worked out if there had been more communication and more time to work it all out

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sunshine01 says...
5:38pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Reading these comments I can fully appreciate that parents are upset about the closure of the pre-school, but I feel utterly nauseated by the way some individuals choose to speak about the church concerned. Reading the article carefully it appears that the church has shown great charity towards and care for this group, permitting them to use their facilities at a reduced charge for several years and thus actually incurring a loss! And it does appear that there have been negotiations for months, not just a week! And yes, Stacey, money does not grow on trees - I personally dread opening my utility bills and hate to think what these would be for a church!

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stacey782 says...
5:56pm Thu 19 Jul 12

However the rate has not been reduced as they have said it is the same as what they would charge anybody for renting the space out for a party etc.. As for negotiations the owner of the pre-school was informed of a possible rent hike 2 months ago, but nowhere near as substantial as 35% and it was eventually decided on the Sunday that it was happening and that this was the amount. The vicar apparently said he couldn't believe the paritioners had voted against the pre-school so something must be wrong somewhere.

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Huffter says...
6:02pm Thu 19 Jul 12

claireybells1983 wrote:
the goverment sets the rates of pay so they cant just raise the amount just because the church decides to raise the rent by a stupid amount, the point is, its a church and therefore going against what the bible says. Yes all the staff at that pre school are there to earn money at the end of the day its a job,however! 3 of my children have gone there over the past 5 and half yrs and i no all the staff are there because they want to be,they are there to help the children learn and develop and love the children dearly.The commisioners should be ashamed that not only are they making many people unemployed,children that were due to return there in september are now having to search for a new pre school, settlle in again and make all new freinds just because of money!! its disgusting, especially from a church. personally i will miss the staff alot and am gutted my baby will not be going to such a lovely,welcoming,car ing pre school like Our Place Pre School like my other children did!
Please quote chapter and verse as to how the church is "going against" what the bible says.
Free education is available in this country for all children but we should never forget that the home is the first educator.

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Solitary One says...
7:48pm Thu 19 Jul 12

the harsh reality is that this church is dying the congregation is getting much older and slowly dissappearing so there is no money. if both had worked closer together e.g the parishioners and the nursery then at least the building would be used for something and maybe with a little communication between adults money could have been raised to help keep both the church and the nursery group going. However this option was not utilised and now there is a great deal of ill feeling being caused within the community with the destruction of this nursery and the further lack of choice for future generations of children. I look forwards to seeing the bucket being shaken outside the local co-op asking for donations to keep the building open I for one will be walking past and remarking what could have been.......

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stacey782 says...
7:50pm Thu 19 Jul 12

I dont think many of us forget home is the first educator but they also need out of home experiences and stimulations including mixing with other children and adults and learning from other people. This is what helps them to grow into individuals.
The way things are going more and more pre-schools will close as this could happen everywhere and then what will we do when our children cant be educated outside of the home under the school age of 4/5. Is this right??? i dont think so and I want what is best for my children. My child attended this pre-school for just over 12 months and my other child was due to start here September however have now had to try and find him an adequate placement elsewhere which is difficult. No playgroup will be the same as this one as this was well organised, safe and i trusted the people there to look after my children i now have to start again making those bonds and so does my child as he has known the pre-school for the past year and couldnt wait to start there.
At the end of the day nothing we say on here will change anything as its now closed and disbanded but i feel we have a right to air our views about this situation and how it is affecting our children

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sarfhamton says...
11:05pm Thu 19 Jul 12

I am the treasurer for a community centre and offer low rent for the play school because we want the kids to come back and use the centre when they grow up.

Seems a bit short sighted by the church and a little unchristian.

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IronLady2010 says...
11:12pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Surely there is more to this story. The Group leaders, if they chose to, could have fund raised which would involve the children and their families to save it for another year at least.

It seems it was last minute, but I can't help but doubt that, I'm no fan of Churches, but generally they don't just boot you out at short notice. It's time to look at the leaders?

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NulNemo says...
2:00am Fri 20 Jul 12

Until I moved from the area I was a member of the church in question. I have three observations to make:
1. The parents can't afford to pay the play-group more for the care / education of their children, so it's not their fault the play-group has to close. The church can't afford to host the play-group without a raise in rent (in line with other users) just to cover the expenditure involved in having the play-group on its premises, so it's the church's fault ... ?
2. The church has been called 'uncharitable' and 'unChristian' for asking for an increase in rent. Yet for EIGHT YEARS previously the church has been asking the play-group (what I know to have been) a much-reduced rate of rent, and that's uncharitable and unChristian ...?
3. A 35% increase seems a lot. But 35% of what figure? Enquire of other churches and council-run community centres in the same area for hire rates of their premises (for comparable facilities).
It's a sad and emotive situation, but let's get a sense of balance and perspective on the matter.

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loosehead says...
5:58am Fri 20 Jul 12

claireybells1983 wrote:
loosehead....where do i start. to answer your questions yes i do work infact i work 2 jobs and my husband leaves the house at 8 oclock in the morning and sometimes doesnt get home till 9 at night, have 4 kids,own our own house but i dont no why we have to justify ourselves to you, u may be sum millionnaire that can afford to sit on here bascially accusing us of not wanting the best for our children but that fact we are so upset is because we do want the best for our children. we are not saying we anything for free cos u must b a fool to think things are free in life but if you had to go find another playschool and watch your child try and settle in new surroundings again, maybe not even finding a placement i think you may have something to say.however we can see you have no interest in the childrens welfare on this you would just like to accuse every1 of sitting on there backsides doing nothing which is exactly what your doing probably with no children as you keep refering to your sister inlaw rather than yourself when probably more of the parents at this pre school work than not!
this church do you attend it on the weekends?
Do you & other people who live in the area or send your children to the playschool fund raise for the church?
I never thought Hedge end was a poor area?
No I don't have kids but how many of the parents who are slating this church go on holiday abroad?
how many could stay at home & take cheaper holidays?
How can I not feel sorry for someone who's had four kids then expect people who can't have kids to subsidise them?
As you can see there are two sides to every story.
I get a company pension I cost this country nothing & I pay taxes so I think that gives me the right to comment on people wanting my taxes to pay don't you?

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bravebeth says...
6:52am Fri 20 Jul 12

The church has allowed the pre-school to pay low rent for many years. Now they are complaining. all pre-schools should pay the proper rent. The church has to pay all the utility bills. Far too many parents abuse the pre-schools run by churches. The parents do not support the church then they expect the pre-school to have cheap rents. I wonder how much the staff are paid?

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Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...
11:28am Fri 20 Jul 12

Reading this and the comments, obviously its inconvenient to the parents to have to find alternative child care arrangements, but obviously the church has to protect itself first, and cannot afford to run at a loss. If the rents has been reduced for so many years, then 35% looks like a jump, but they are probably getting at least a discount of 35% to market rates if they have been excused say a 3-5% compounded annual increase

There would be no pre school if they church went anyway.

The question then remains why the pre school cannot pay a more reasonable commercial level of rent.

I suspect the answer may lie in the amount of money received by the nurseries to cover free education places. This is simply not enough, and there should be more flexibility for nurseries to charge supplements to cover their costs.

Parents need to recognise that child care can't be free, someone has to pay for it, and it is always taxpayers, whether the parents (unless they do not work) or the government. So many nurseries are providing free education places at a loss, it is an unsustainable situation. Parents are going to have to pay top ups, or nurseries will have to drop out of the free education scheme. Or of course the government could use some of the money it is printing to help kick start the economy and assist working parents.

The National Day Nurseries Association has revealed that the majority of nurseries cannot cover their costs. The NDNA's latest bi-annual Nursery Business Performance Survey shows that more than 76 per cent of nurseries make average annual losses of more than £500 per child on free early education places for three- and four-year-olds. On average, nurseries are receiving just £3.66 per hour for the funded places.
The survey also found that funding levels were a key issue for nurseries in England, Scotland and Wales, which are experiencing rising costs in utilities, wages and business rates.

It would be good to see the government providing free nursery places for full weeks for all parents where both work full time, or in the case of single parent families where the main carer works full time.

Those who do not work should be restricted in getting access to free nursery places, unless they demonstrate they are actively looking for work, and accept any job offered to them if they have not found work within a reasonable period of time. If they do not, their benefits should be removed. If they can no longer look after their children and they are deemed to b at risk, this should not be a signal for the government to open the purse strings, they should be taken into care and adopted by people willing to work and contribute to society.#

People should be able to afford their children.

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Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...
11:37am Fri 20 Jul 12

Taxpayers should not be expected to fund the "Shameless" generation.

The government should not allow children to grow up in homes where for successive generations no one works and everyone is on benefits.

Such parents/carers should be offered work, and if they refuse it, or engineer means to quit or do not show up, their children should be placed elsewhere and adopted.

We have little choice unless we are willing to see society degenenerate around us.

It is shocking to hear of people giving up well paid jobs purely because they are not much worse off on benefits, and they would rather lose a little and do naff all, than work for their living.

Where is their pride?

Or are they working "unofficially?" in the hidden economy

It is not just shocking. It is sickening that people are willing to walk away from jobs to go and sit on benefits.

Time to cut these benefits now, and force these people to switch off Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and get a job! However little it pays!

Then, and ONLY then, should they be supported / topped up by the state

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Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...
11:47am Fri 20 Jul 12

bravebeth wrote:
The church has allowed the pre-school to pay low rent for many years. Now they are complaining. all pre-schools should pay the proper rent. The church has to pay all the utility bills. Far too many parents abuse the pre-schools run by churches. The parents do not support the church then they expect the pre-school to have cheap rents. I wonder how much the staff are paid?
Well said bravebeth

Its like the allegory of stone soup. Why is it the church that is expected to lose out and risk it's own financial security? Others should put their hands in their pockets too.

So mant parents at so many nurseries just take their "free education", and dont give the nurseries a chance to make money on the unfunded sessions. They have to realise that unless they support the nursery by paying for unfunded sessions, these nurseries are just not viable.

The staff in nurseries are paid little enough as it is. The only solution is for either the government or parents to pay more, likely a combination of the two.

But as I said above, this extra support should only be received by people who are contributing to society, ie working and paying taxes!
Time to end the something for nothing culture. It is no longer affordable.

The world economies are likely to contract for years to come. Life is going to get a lot lot tougher. Time for everyone to get used to the idea and prepare themselves.

People's expectations for the latest gagdgets, phones, PC's, giant HD and 3D TV's, home cinema system's and foreign holidays need to come second to paying for their children's childcare.

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emsworth38 says...
12:00pm Fri 20 Jul 12

The church has always charged the school a standard rate and not reduced. The increase of 35% was completely unmanageable. As parents with only 1 weeks notice, we tried to think of ways to raise funds, however this was completely unrealistic. There has been a pre school within that church for many years, even before Our Place. Hedge End always had a strong community involvement and the church should have embraced the pre school and worked with them to find a way forward, even if that meant a gradual increase over a set number of years. The sad thing is, this is what a church is all about, take, take, take. The children should have come first with some sort of financial agreement that was achievable. So sad that we were never given enough time to find the money to save the school. What a loss to Hedge End and what a loss to the children. We should take a positive from this, that our children have benefited from the dedication and care of the staff there.

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Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...
12:09pm Fri 20 Jul 12

The timing of the imminent closure is interesting, as funded places tend to be term time only.

It does suggest that parents are not willing to support the nursery by paying for unfunded sessions other than their 15 hours free education, both within term time and during the school holidays

So, why is 15 hours funded? It seems to me it has a lot to do with giving free childcare to those who are on benefits and doing
"permitted work", which entitles a person who is receipt Employment Support Allowance (ESA) to earn up to £93 a week as long as they work less than 16 hours a week and must be paid the minimum wage

This is why so many people decide they are not much worse (or even better) off if they quit full time jobs to work two days a week.

Time to require these people to work five days a week if they want the free child care!

It is disgraceful that many people quit their full time jobs to have their benefits and use free education places to work maybe a couple of days a week to top up their benefits so they dont need to look for full time work

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Huffter says...
12:28pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together wrote:
Taxpayers should not be expected to fund the "Shameless" generation. The government should not allow children to grow up in homes where for successive generations no one works and everyone is on benefits. Such parents/carers should be offered work, and if they refuse it, or engineer means to quit or do not show up, their children should be placed elsewhere and adopted. We have little choice unless we are willing to see society degenenerate around us. It is shocking to hear of people giving up well paid jobs purely because they are not much worse off on benefits, and they would rather lose a little and do naff all, than work for their living. Where is their pride? Or are they working "unofficially?" in the hidden economy It is not just shocking. It is sickening that people are willing to walk away from jobs to go and sit on benefits. Time to cut these benefits now, and force these people to switch off Jeremy Kyle and Loose Women and get a job! However little it pays! Then, and ONLY then, should they be supported / topped up by the state
"Such parents should be offered work "- how do you propose to fund and create these jobs?

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