Prison warning for plumber over drugs (From Daily Echo)

Theft of electricity aside, he wasn't hurting anyone.

If it was for his own use then prison is not the right course of action for this case.

When are we going to have a sensible, rational discussion about drugs in this country? Does it really make sense to lock up a father of four, who works for a living, for THIS?

Out of interest, does anyone know how many plants would be required, in order to maintain a moderate personal usage (i.e. two jazz-fags a night)? Assume no access to high-intensity lighting/filteration etc.
My guess, and it is a guess based on what I've seen growing on plants and how long it's taken those plants to grow, is about ten.

Higginz wrote:
Out of interest, does anyone know how many plants would be required, in order to maintain a moderate personal usage (i.e. two jazz-fags a night)? Assume no access to high-intensity lighting/filteration etc. My guess, and it is a guess based on what I've seen growing on plants and how long it's taken those plants to grow, is about ten.

Quite a few more then that, can't remember how many think about 30 or something.

Home grown should be encouraged not punished, it takes the funding away from organised crime.

Effectively this will just end up with him buying off the street from gangs that grow in rented houses using poor Vietnamese gardeners.

Hopefully the poor chap in question will just end up with a suspended sentence and will continue to be able to care for his kids.

I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

What a strange assumption to make. Still, that's your choice.

Higginz wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

What a strange assumption to make. Still, that's your choice.

It's exactly that sort of circular reasoning - it's illegal because it's wrong, it's wrong because it's illegal - that prevents any sensible discussion of the war on drugs, though, isn't it?

Georgem wrote:

Higginz wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote: I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

What a strange assumption to make. Still, that's your choice.

It's exactly that sort of circular reasoning - it's illegal because it's wrong, it's wrong because it's illegal - that prevents any sensible discussion of the war on drugs, though, isn't it?

There certainly appears to be a stubborn willingness to retain the illegality of drugs (those that are illegal anyway). The political parties that would need to start these discussions just seem unwilling to stick their neck out and be the first.

Interestingly, there appear to be a few similarities in the current relationship between our society and illegal drugs, and the reasons why prohibition ended --> http://wiki.answers.
com/Q/Why_did_prohib
ition_end

Georgem wrote:
When are we going to have a sensible, rational discussion about drugs in this country? Does it really make sense to lock up a father of four, who works for a living, for THIS?

Well said

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Erm... No!

Essential growing plants for own use is a victimless crime - You grow, you consume, no one else is effected.

However shoplifting, fraud and murder has an impact on other people.

if this gent likes to blaze a few spliffs a night to chillax then why the hullabloo? he's not harming anyone (apart from himself, but that's his choice)

When you start choosding which laws to obey and which to flout, you are on the road to anarchy

Legalise

Mixed feeling it was only cannabis, he didn't kill anyone, and is the sole career of children. Maybe not prison but drug help and probation. The only people who will suffer if the poor children.

If he is the sole carer then perhaps he should not get stoned so often?

sarfhamton wrote:
If he is the sole carer then perhaps he should not get stoned so often?

Well, that's a valid point too, yes.

Of the Ilk wrote:
When you start choosding which laws to obey and which to flout, you are on the road to anarchy

When you blindly accept, without question, every law imposed on you by a group of people who do not have your interests at heart, you are on the road to oppressive totalitarianism.

But that's not what this is about. The war on drugs is over, the drugs are winning. As long as we treat drugs as something criminal, and not a social health problem, we will always be losing. Nobody, no country on Earth, has solved the drug problem with legislation. It's time to re-examine the law.

kingnotail wrote:
Legalise

Decriminalise first. Legalising drugs is a massive logistical nightmare that would take years to arrange. It's not as simple as saying "drugs are now legal".

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
When you start choosding which laws to obey and which to flout, you are on the road to anarchy

When you blindly accept, without question, every law imposed on you by a group of people who do not have your interests at heart, you are on the road to oppressive totalitarianism.

But that's not what this is about. The war on drugs is over, the drugs are winning. As long as we treat drugs as something criminal, and not a social health problem, we will always be losing. Nobody, no country on Earth, has solved the drug problem with legislation. It's time to re-examine the law.

hear bloody hear!

Just to be clear, decriminalisation is not "lol we want to do whatever we want!" it's "the current measures do not work, time to try something else".

Georgem wrote:
Just to be clear, decriminalisation is not "lol we want to do whatever we want!" it's "the current measures do not work, time to try something else".

How about;
Home grown cannabis (max ? plants) allowed for personal home use only.
Possession outside of own home remains illegal and standard prosecution for commercial enterprises, DUI and theft of national grid electric etc.
Personally I can't see an issue with growing and using personally in your own home (I don't but can't see my preferences enforced on others)
The stupidity in pursuing a no drugs policy whilst allowing unlimited alcohol consumption beggars belief.

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

My own personal view is that every human being should have the right to choose the lifestyle that suits them.

But then comes the caveat : providing that lifestyle doesn't upset or harm other people, animals, or property.

What shapes our lives ? Well :

The Law determines what is upsetting and what is harmful, and to what degree, and then dishes out appropriate punishments for contravention.

Religion is supposed to help people make the right choices that will help them have a happy life.

Politics are supposed to enable our dreams to come true !

Education is supposed to help us recognise our academic, artisitic, and physical strengths and weaknesses.

The Health service is supposed to help us stay well.

So, cannabis : -
Health Service : it's bad for you and could cause cancer.
Education : might make you a brilliant musician, but a lousy dentist.
Politicians : on the one hand this, on the other hand that, bla, bla, bla...
Religion : search your conscience.
The Law : Naughty, but if the other four agree to decide otherwise.....

So there we are......simple, isn't it ?

LOL !

Yea Man me only fiddling the dam bog pan pipes.

Higginz wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

What a strange assumption to make. Still, that's your choice.

why is he a criminal??maybe your a criminal without even knowing it????or secretly you do!!!anyways i presume you are a person of exceptional high living standards and would maybe find use for a plummer one day,your view would be different then i think!!!

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

Its my point to all being if they lock up everyone who smokes,grows,eats weed...half of middle Britain will be behind bars!why stop there eh might as well go the whole hog,Bang all the drinkers up as well they cause more offence and burden on the system than any other drug,then you get the full house!!

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,
disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

DiscoPig (dj) wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,

disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

About 1 in 10 of us may be susceptible to alcoholism, and I agree that greater efforts should be made to help those people. Reverting to the 1914 Licensing Act would be a start. However the problems caused by those people, although worrying to those affected, do not compare with the actions of the percentage of cannabis users who become incurable paranoid schizzophrenics. This is a real worry and I am convinced that this issue is swept under the carpet by those academic idiots who although they smoked cannabis during their student years, were not part of the percentage of those badly affected so do not wish to see the problem. Its not yet been acknowledged but I would put real money on the Batman murderer being publicised soon as having smoked cannabis for some years.

Inform Al wrote:

DiscoPig (dj) wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,


disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

About 1 in 10 of us may be susceptible to alcoholism, and I agree that greater efforts should be made to help those people. Reverting to the 1914 Licensing Act would be a start. However the problems caused by those people, although worrying to those affected, do not compare with the actions of the percentage of cannabis users who become incurable paranoid schizzophrenics. This is a real worry and I am convinced that this issue is swept under the carpet by those academic idiots who although they smoked cannabis during their student years, were not part of the percentage of those badly affected so do not wish to see the problem. Its not yet been acknowledged but I would put real money on the Batman murderer being publicised soon as having smoked cannabis for some years.

So what is the percentage of cannabis user who become incurable paranoid schizophrenics?
I know of more than 10 long term regular users, not one of them paranoid schizo's

DiscoPig (dj) wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,

disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

Rational discussion doesn't mean people taking it in turns to rant about pet hates.

Des Olated wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

DiscoPig (dj) wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,



disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

About 1 in 10 of us may be susceptible to alcoholism, and I agree that greater efforts should be made to help those people. Reverting to the 1914 Licensing Act would be a start. However the problems caused by those people, although worrying to those affected, do not compare with the actions of the percentage of cannabis users who become incurable paranoid schizzophrenics. This is a real worry and I am convinced that this issue is swept under the carpet by those academic idiots who although they smoked cannabis during their student years, were not part of the percentage of those badly affected so do not wish to see the problem. Its not yet been acknowledged but I would put real money on the Batman murderer being publicised soon as having smoked cannabis for some years.

So what is the percentage of cannabis user who become incurable paranoid schizophrenics?
I know of more than 10 long term regular users, not one of them paranoid schizo's

Lucky you - I wish I could say the same !

Des Olated wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

DiscoPig (dj) wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Of the Ilk wrote:
I assume those showing support for this criminal and supporting growing cannabis for 'personal' use also advocated breaking other laws - shoplifting, fraud, benefit fraud, murder!

Why do you assume that? You can't spot the difference between murder, and growing a plant? Like I said, time for a RATIONAL discussion of the issue.

By rational you mean an investigation into why whenever a paranoid schizzophrenic decides to commit multiple murders he is found to have smoked cannabis for some years. The increase in the incidence of such murders is increasing at roughly the same rate as the use of cannabis, both here and in the US. I would have no problem with hanging the dealers.

No, by rational I mean untainted by that sort of rhetoric. But you make a good point. There may well be medical issues with cannabis. Which is why it's time to stop simply treating it as a crime and pretending that's curing the problem.

Hanging the dealers would be a good cure.

You are hereby dismissed from rational discussion of the issue.

what about all the mental issues with alcoholism....crime,



disorder,drunken murder!!!why is this drug legal?could it be the massive revenue in tax it brings...we live in a two faced world i think

About 1 in 10 of us may be susceptible to alcoholism, and I agree that greater efforts should be made to help those people. Reverting to the 1914 Licensing Act would be a start. However the problems caused by those people, although worrying to those affected, do not compare with the actions of the percentage of cannabis users who become incurable paranoid schizzophrenics. This is a real worry and I am convinced that this issue is swept under the carpet by those academic idiots who although they smoked cannabis during their student years, were not part of the percentage of those badly affected so do not wish to see the problem. Its not yet been acknowledged but I would put real money on the Batman murderer being publicised soon as having smoked cannabis for some years.

So what is the percentage of cannabis user who become incurable paranoid schizophrenics?
I know of more than 10 long term regular users, not one of them paranoid schizo's

As I had previously worked with alcoholics I am aware of the percentage of us likely to become alcoholic, I do not know the percentage of cannabis users that become incurably paranoid schizzophrenic but I can say that in the years that I was an appropriate adult working for Mind I dealt with very many clients in the cells that quite openly told me they had used cannabis, usually from quite a young age and for a few years.