Cyclist's serious injuries after city centre accident (From Daily Echo)

I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident...

However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes.

Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

bicycles are road vehicles the same as cars and tractors. If roadusers respected each others space instead of driving dangerously and impatiently then the roads would be a lot safer. This applies to cyclists and motorists.

A helmet is a personal choice it is not compulsory and it has been shown that people will drive closer to a cyclist with a helmet on. With regard to reflective clothing it should be fairly obvious if there is a cyclist in the road during on summer morning if motorists take the time to look properly instead of giving it a cursory glance.

I cannot comment on the accident in the article as I was not there. I hope the cyclist recovers ok.

I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident...

However, I'm sure many cyclists would agree that quite a few motorists don't indicate, use their mirrors correctly or chat away on their mobiles without paying any attention to other road users. I'm also routinely appalled by some motorists road manners and selfishness. A lot of these motorists seem to think that once in their car they own the road, can go what speed they like and can pick and choose whch rules of the road suit them. To suggest cyclists are banned from the roads and made to cycle (at any speed) on the pavement is plain silly. What about OAP's or mothers with buggys? You do realise that people can be and are killed\injured by getting hit by a cyclist?

Cycle lanes are the way forward, while educating drivers that the road is not solely there for them and their car.

Once again I'd like to reiterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

knowing someone who actually witnessed the accident i would like to comment that the cyclist did actually ride across the pedestrian crossing while the lights were green without looking to see what was coming...my sympathies go out to the driver of the car as well as the cyclist

In general British cycling rules are written to get cyclist killed. Cycling on most of these roads is just plain dangerous. 1) riding on pavements should be allowed with the caveat to dismount in the presence of pedestrians, 2) crossing with walk signals should be allowed. Bike lanes need to have enough room and be more than suggestions (the silly dotted line ones) for motorists.

If the economic downturn continues for several years then vehicles and bikes HAVE to live with each other. More and more people are using bikes because buses are bad and they cannot afford to run a car. The use of zebra crossing, allegedly, must be walked across NOT ridden. The cycle routes are rediculously narrow and I have seen vehicles parked and driven upon them and sooner or later Councils will have to address this issue, as with pot holes etc., nothing is addressed.
I join 'mazzie' in my sympathy to the driver (who must be totally shocked) as well as the poor cyclist and may she recover quickly.

goard

Like several others I passed the scene a few seconds afterwards, and it seems the cyclist had used the Pelican crossing while lights were green and a long queue of stationary traffic backing up at the crossing because of an obstruction ahead.

However it's commonplace to see cyclists crossing here between the two parks while traffic lights are green but while traffic is stationary because of obstructions ahead, but with the inside bus lane clear.

Sadly, an accident waiting to happen.

soton1980 wrote:
I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident...

However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes.

Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

Good post! This harks back to a verbose rant I just had on another thread about "rights". Cyclists and pedestrians will bleat about their rights to be here, or there, or wherever, but I recall when I was at primary school, our local bobby's wife was run over and killed by a driver whilst crossing the road. Tragic. He devoted his life then to giving road safety lectures to people, and constantly drummed it into us - from his own bitter experience - that, no matter what you think, you should never just rely on your "right" to be somewhere, you should always be pragmatic and aware of dangers.

Other countries such as the Netherlands have a good approach to cycling, with an attendant lower accident rate. We should take note.

Although I, too, would like to say I'm in no way apportioning blame in this story. We don't know enough about it, and it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. Hope she recovers soon

There is obviously a problem with cycling in this country. So what can we do about it? Who decides the traffic laws, where the lines are painted and which traffic laws are actually enforced?

Jparcoeur wrote:
There is obviously a problem with cycling in this country. So what can we do about it? Who decides the traffic laws, where the lines are painted and which traffic laws are actually enforced?

I think the social contract between cyclists and everyone else in unbalanced in this country. There exists, for example, a mutual contempt between car drivers and cyclists, in a lot of cases. Car drivers see cyclists as a bother, getting in the way, and, to an extent, they're right. How often have you seen a tailback of 20 or so cars, behind one cyclist? Annoying for all concerned, including the cyclist. But then, if the cyclist mounts the pavement, he's at fault once again. So really, step one seems to be "more cycle lanes", and step two would be "actually enforce use of them".

Make cyclists pay road tax, learn the highway code and pass a test

Boris Remmington wrote:
Make cyclists pay road tax, learn the highway code and pass a test

Where will 5 year old Jonny on his BMX be getting his tax money from? Why take away the only remaining free mode of transport?

No doubt Jonny will just steal a BMW

Fred_In_Brizzle wrote:
I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident...

However, I'm sure many cyclists would agree that quite a few motorists don't indicate, use their mirrors correctly or chat away on their mobiles without paying any attention to other road users. I'm also routinely appalled by some motorists road manners and selfishness. A lot of these motorists seem to think that once in their car they own the road, can go what speed they like and can pick and choose whch rules of the road suit them. To suggest cyclists are banned from the roads and made to cycle (at any speed) on the pavement is plain silly. What about OAP's or mothers with buggys? You do realise that people can be and are killed\injured by getting hit by a cyclist?

Cycle lanes are the way forward, while educating drivers that the road is not solely there for them and their car.

Once again I'd like to reiterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

You really are stupid if you believe that cyclists being made to cycle on pavements will cause MORE deaths than if they used the road.

Also, notice how I used the words 'at a reasonable speed' whilst cycling on the pavement.

OK more bike lanes,cyclists do as you are told yet daily coming down the avenue people walk,jog push buggies on the cycle lane and yet its our fault.by the church near the accident today on Friday and Sundays the cycle lane/footpath is blocked by people going in and out of the church cars parked on the pavement.so what are we meant to do?.also if we have to abide by the law so should car drivers,no smoking,eating,readi
ng,putting on make up,sat nav etc as these are a distraction and you have to remove your hand to operate.whats next no horses on the roads,yet more and more mopeds and young drivers on the road with no real experience just past the test and now show off.when they crash i just think natural selection and just separating the wheat from the chaff!

If we're to enforce cyclelanes (and I've never been an advocate of them as they currently stand) we need a network in place first, and one that works. Only then can you do as they have been doing in the Netherlands and other parts of Europe.

It should however be remembered that not all roads in the Netherlands have cyclelanes. My limited understanding from talking to their countrymen is that cyclists can still use the road in those circumstances.

With regards helmets and hiviz - it isnt the law here in the UK, and infact it isnt a legal requirement in the Netherlands either.

Second point on helmets is that many people are ignorant on what they're actually designed to do and how they're tested (I've banged on about this often enough on here so I'll just say I'm waiting for my petition to clear on the no10 site with regards helmets to counter some of the silly ones up there - do NOT beleive what groups like Headway say!)

Does anyone know if this crossing was a toucan crossing or another type? I thought New Road was Toucan, but havent been there in a long time so I'm hazy.

Soton1980. Perhaps you'd like to consider the large amount of accidents involving cyclists riding from pavement to pavement. Pavements are for pedestrians and even shared facilities should be abolished.

Georgem wrote:

soton1980 wrote: I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident... However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes. Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

Good post! This harks back to a verbose rant I just had on another thread about "rights". Cyclists and pedestrians will bleat about their rights to be here, or there, or wherever, but I recall when I was at primary school, our local bobby's wife was run over and killed by a driver whilst crossing the road. Tragic. He devoted his life then to giving road safety lectures to people, and constantly drummed it into us - from his own bitter experience - that, no matter what you think, you should never just rely on your "right" to be somewhere, you should always be pragmatic and aware of dangers. Other countries such as the Netherlands have a good approach to cycling, with an attendant lower accident rate. We should take note. Although I, too, would like to say I'm in no way apportioning blame in this story. We don't know enough about it, and it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. Hope she recovers soon

A couple of case-studies there. Quite what point you are struggling to make, Georgem, is not clear. soton1980, you are either a master of irony, or just plain deluded. There must be a few people around, like me, who drive and cycle. Talk to me about rogue cyclists on the day that all of us who drive obey speed limits, traffic lights, road signs, show courtesy to anyone else using the road, indicate at junctions, don't tail-gate, don't gesture at other road-users etc etc etc. In the meantime, let's hope the outcome for everyone involved in today's incident is positive.

This unfortunate accident happened right infront of me.The cyclist did jump the signal without realising that there might be taxis in the bus lane.I do not blame her as many of us do it everyday knowing fully the danger. Practical solution will be a subway at every such potential accident prone crossing.

also forgot to say all cycle helmets are tested to withstand a fall from the cycle not a moving cycle.even the helmets costing £150 still only have to crack once from a drop test from 5 feetthe full face downhill/bmx style still have the same testing done and fair no better.

solentman wrote:
This unfortunate accident happened right infront of me.The cyclist did jump the signal without realising that there might be taxis in the bus lane.I do not blame her as many of us do it everyday knowing fully the danger. Practical solution will be a subway at every such potential accident prone crossing.

A subway at EVERY potential accident prone crossing? Is that really practical and cost-effective?

You can't eradicate all risk. Sometimes accidents just happen.

Sometimes the solution is people taking responsibility for their own actions, rather than looking for impractical preventative steps.

Of course, this lady should have looked before crossing, but, accidents do happen. I sincerely hope she recovers.

A lot of Cyclists have no consideration for motorists ,weaving in and out of cars cycling on pavements then without looking they cycle on to the road .They certainly should were hiviz,The amount of cyclists who are on the roads at night and no lights on.They do go through pedestrian green lights seen this so many times ...

I'm a cyclist. I find boy racers drive very close and fast. insurance on new car drivers needs to rise so they cant afford to run a car. They are very dangerous.

Quite Frankly wrote:

Georgem wrote:

soton1980 wrote: I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident... However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes. Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

Good post! This harks back to a verbose rant I just had on another thread about "rights". Cyclists and pedestrians will bleat about their rights to be here, or there, or wherever, but I recall when I was at primary school, our local bobby's wife was run over and killed by a driver whilst crossing the road. Tragic. He devoted his life then to giving road safety lectures to people, and constantly drummed it into us - from his own bitter experience - that, no matter what you think, you should never just rely on your "right" to be somewhere, you should always be pragmatic and aware of dangers. Other countries such as the Netherlands have a good approach to cycling, with an attendant lower accident rate. We should take note. Although I, too, would like to say I'm in no way apportioning blame in this story. We don't know enough about it, and it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. Hope she recovers soon

A couple of case-studies there. Quite what point you are struggling to make, Georgem, is not clear. soton1980, you are either a master of irony, or just plain deluded. There must be a few people around, like me, who drive and cycle. Talk to me about rogue cyclists on the day that all of us who drive obey speed limits, traffic lights, road signs, show courtesy to anyone else using the road, indicate at junctions, don't tail-gate, don't gesture at other road-users etc etc etc. In the meantime, let's hope the outcome for everyone involved in today's incident is positive.

What you fail to notice is that I wasn't trying to say that all motorists are perfect drivers and did not in any way suggest that.

I was merely commenting that I am shocked by the way some cyclists act.

For example, a few months ago I was driving along an A-road at about 11pm, when it was dark and saw a cyclist with no reflective clothing or lights.

My point is that that cyclists are more vulnerable road users and yet I've seen some act in very stupid ways. The two don't mix.

To Downgrader and Teamgreen, helmets may not be the law, but I have a friend who's life was saved because he was wearing one when he had an accident.

Quite Frankly wrote:

Georgem wrote:

soton1980 wrote: I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident... However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes. Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

Good post! This harks back to a verbose rant I just had on another thread about "rights". Cyclists and pedestrians will bleat about their rights to be here, or there, or wherever, but I recall when I was at primary school, our local bobby's wife was run over and killed by a driver whilst crossing the road. Tragic. He devoted his life then to giving road safety lectures to people, and constantly drummed it into us - from his own bitter experience - that, no matter what you think, you should never just rely on your "right" to be somewhere, you should always be pragmatic and aware of dangers. Other countries such as the Netherlands have a good approach to cycling, with an attendant lower accident rate. We should take note. Although I, too, would like to say I'm in no way apportioning blame in this story. We don't know enough about it, and it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. Hope she recovers soon

A couple of case-studies there. Quite what point you are struggling to make, Georgem, is not clear. soton1980, you are either a master of irony, or just plain deluded. There must be a few people around, like me, who drive and cycle. Talk to me about rogue cyclists on the day that all of us who drive obey speed limits, traffic lights, road signs, show courtesy to anyone else using the road, indicate at junctions, don't tail-gate, don't gesture at other road-users etc etc etc. In the meantime, let's hope the outcome for everyone involved in today's incident is positive.

What you fail to notice is that I wasn't trying to say that all motorists are perfect drivers and did not in any way suggest that.

I was merely commenting that I am shocked by the way some cyclists act.

For example, a few months ago I was driving along an A-road at about 11pm, when it was dark and saw a cyclist with no reflective clothing or lights.

My point is that that cyclists are more vulnerable road users and yet I've seen some act in very stupid ways. The two don't mix.

To Downgrader and Teamgreen, helmets may not be the law, but I have a friend who's life was saved because he was wearing one when he had an accident.

soton1980 wrote:

Quite Frankly wrote:

Georgem wrote:

soton1980 wrote: I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident... However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes. Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

Good post! This harks back to a verbose rant I just had on another thread about "rights". Cyclists and pedestrians will bleat about their rights to be here, or there, or wherever, but I recall when I was at primary school, our local bobby's wife was run over and killed by a driver whilst crossing the road. Tragic. He devoted his life then to giving road safety lectures to people, and constantly drummed it into us - from his own bitter experience - that, no matter what you think, you should never just rely on your "right" to be somewhere, you should always be pragmatic and aware of dangers. Other countries such as the Netherlands have a good approach to cycling, with an attendant lower accident rate. We should take note. Although I, too, would like to say I'm in no way apportioning blame in this story. We don't know enough about it, and it wouldn't serve any purpose anyway. Hope she recovers soon

A couple of case-studies there. Quite what point you are struggling to make, Georgem, is not clear. soton1980, you are either a master of irony, or just plain deluded. There must be a few people around, like me, who drive and cycle. Talk to me about rogue cyclists on the day that all of us who drive obey speed limits, traffic lights, road signs, show courtesy to anyone else using the road, indicate at junctions, don't tail-gate, don't gesture at other road-users etc etc etc. In the meantime, let's hope the outcome for everyone involved in today's incident is positive.

What you fail to notice is that I wasn't trying to say that all motorists are perfect drivers and did not in any way suggest that. I was merely commenting that I am shocked by the way some cyclists act. For example, a few months ago I was driving along an A-road at about 11pm, when it was dark and saw a cyclist with no reflective clothing or lights. My point is that that cyclists are more vulnerable road users and yet I've seen some act in very stupid ways. The two don't mix. To Downgrader and Teamgreen, helmets may not be the law, but I have a friend who's life was saved because he was wearing one when he had an accident.

Life was saved? Are you qualified to quantify that? Because mine got smashed to peices when I was hit last year and I dont feel qualified to say it saved my life. And this is after studying them for a few months

The sheer physics involved and biological structure of the brain and skull are such that I cant endorse a helmet as a "life saver". And lets not forget there have been a few cases of strangulantion, shattered helmet plastic coming off and sticking in the face, facial injuries and neck injuries - something a helmet wont help you with.

Again - this is why I put in the petition request on the no10 site.

And I've said before - hiviz is a red herring. The only time of practical benefit is at night and the reflective strips will ONLY reflect at distance, so the driver STILL has to bear that in mind (another very good reason for lights imo)

Lastly I will try and qualify the shouting you often might see/hear from a cyclist. We dont have horns like drivers (well some do but thats a niche market) and sometimes have to rely on a vocal warning. I'm not adverse to confronting a bad driver at a set of lights or if they stop. I'll explain what they did wrong and I hope they'll adjust their behaviour in future. Sadly I dont think it works but you need to outlet that frustration

I was nearly hit by a cyclist yesterday who had just ridden through a red as I crossed a road. That said I see many drivers go through red lights these days. Speed cameras don't pick them up !!! Many cyclists and motorists need to actually read the highway code and learn the rules of the road.

Grumpy San wrote:
I was nearly hit by a cyclist yesterday who had just ridden through a red as I crossed a road. That said I see many drivers go through red lights these days. Speed cameras don't pick them up !!! Many cyclists and motorists need to actually read the highway code and learn the rules of the road.

Or indeed reread as the Highway Code has changed much in even the last 10 years (think just of the ASLs and crossings as a small example)

When beginners to cycling ask me for road advice I tend to point them to the HC as its just easier. Its also free to read - go to a library or look at it online on the directgov site.

I will also add that I have only encountered 1 cyclist who has shot past me when using the pedestrian crossings... however I have been driven past many, many times! Hill Lane's zebra is the worst one for drivers ignoring you, or even giving you abuse once you're halfway across.

Spring road also has an abused zebra crossing that drivers ignore. A couple of weeks ago I stopped there to let some children cross and a car overtook me, I'm presuming he didnt wish to be held up.

I think that the best first step would be to start enforcing the rules for both cyclist and motorists. Tickets for cyclists running red lights, riding on the wrong side of the road and tickets for motorists for failing to yield when they should, parking in/crossing into cycling lanes and passing too close.

Jparcoeur wrote:
I think that the best first step would be to start enforcing the rules for both cyclist and motorists. Tickets for cyclists running red lights, riding on the wrong side of the road and tickets for motorists for failing to yield when they should, parking in/crossing into cycling lanes and passing too close.

Trouble is enforce it with who? There arent the police numbers there used to be.

Perhaps this is why the council is training up City Wardens to help deal with this?

Its a fixed penalty of £30, or if you go to court up to £500 for pavement riding. I am unsure what the penalty for running a red is (other than getting smashed to bits by a car)

There were new powers brought in for Police Officers to issue points to drivers on the spot, and this does include cutting up (also known as a "hook") and driving too close. Again unfortunately there just arent the officers around (perhaps we need more Specials to deal with this?).

I believe the best thing we can all do is set an example. Drive and ride safely, read and understand the Highway Code and parts of the Road Traffic Act.

soton1980 wrote:
I would first like to say that I am not blaming anyone or commenting on the details of this particular incident... However, I'm sure many fellow motorists would agree that quite a few cyclists don't wear a helmet, or any type of reflective clothing. I'm also routinely appaled by some cyclists road manners. These cyclists seem to think that they can ignore the rules of the road when it inconveniences them. I really do feel that many, many lives would be saved if cyclists were banned from the roads and made to cycle (at a reasonable speed) on the pavement or cycle lanes. Once again I'd like to reilterate that I am not in any way suggesting that this young woman was acting like that and I offer all condolences to the family.

I personally think that many, many more lives would be saved if cars and other forms of motorised transport were banned from the roads, I imagine there would be at least a 99% decrease in the number os deaths and serious injuries.