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Fluoride referendum would be ignored by health authority chiefs in Southampton

Health chiefs 'would ignore fluoride referendum result' Health chiefs 'would ignore fluoride referendum result'

EVEN if you had a referendum we wouldn’t change our minds!

That’s the message from health chiefs who say they will plough ahead with plans to fluoridate Hampshire water supplies regardless of whether the public get another chance to air their views.

Bosses at South Central Strategic Health Authority say it has already taken on board the opinions of county residents during a mass consultation – and another huge scale vote would not alter the outcome.

The Daily Echo is backing growing calls for a referendum on fluoridation for Southampton and surrounding areas, because campaigners argue the people’s voices were ignored.

Today they branded the SHA “arrogant” for refusing to reconsider the decision in face of fierce oppostion.

They were backed by one MP who claimed health chiefs were “in denial” over public opinion.

More than 10,000 people responded to the consultation, with 72 per cent of those living in the affected area – covering parts of Southampton, Eastleigh, Totton, Netley and Rownhams – saying they were against it.

In a separate phone poll of 2,000 residents, 38 per cent opposed fluoridation compared to 32 per cent in favour.

Last week, Eastleigh Borough Council voted to demand the SHA holds a public poll, and is bound by its result, while several MPs have also said they believe it is the best way to resolve the issue.

But SHA campaigns manager Kevin McNamara insists the decision has already been made, adding: “We’ve done the opinion poll on this issue and the board would not reconsider its decision on the outcome of another one.

“A consultation has taken place and gathered a broad range of public opinion, and the board had to take into account all those points in making its decision. Any future polls or surveys would not alter the result.”

“We’re absolutely comfortable that at that stage it was a fair representation of public opinion in Southampton.”

Hampshire Against Fluoridation chairman John Spottiswoode said the SHA’s stance shows it is not interested in the voices of the people whose lives it is affecting.

“It just confirms what we thought, that they are just sheer arrogant and not going to listen to what the people say,” he said.

“The Nuffield Council on Bioethics said it is highly unethical to medicate people without their consent. The SHA is effectively saying they know better than anyone else, and won’t listen to the research which shows it doesn’t work and is damaging.”

Southampton North MP Sandra Gidley said the SHA is being “defensive” because it has failed to make the case for fluoridation.

“The SHA has always been in denial over public feeling because it’s quite clear to me that when the responses started coming in and were so heavily weighted in favour, they then produced their own poll,” she said.

“But even that showed that among those who had an opinion, people were against fluoridation so there’s always been an agenda there.

“To me it seems the only way of having proper clarity about public opinion is to ensure people have a vote and have access to the facts.”

Comments(25)

Big Boy says...
12:09pm Mon 20 Jul 09

200000 people live in the affected area. 10000 responded to consultation. 7200 were against introduction of fluoride. 7200 divided by 200000 is 0.036. So basically we have a tiny minority & a flakey local paper spouting off. Ho-hum.

senseofsouthampton says...
12:11pm Mon 20 Jul 09

So the strategic health authority are basically saying our opinion counts for nothing. Who are these faceless bureaucrats and how do we hold them to account?

AdrianSmith says...
12:45pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Big Boy wrote:
200000 people live in the affected area. 10000 responded to consultation. 7200 were against introduction of fluoride. 7200 divided by 200000 is 0.036. So basically we have a tiny minority & a flakey local paper spouting off. Ho-hum.
I think before you slag off the Echo, you need to learn how to calculate percentages.

southy says...
12:58pm Mon 20 Jul 09

they might ignore people wishes, but the socialist will not if they get power, in local and national government.

Mr E says...
1:01pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Just what will it take before this bunch of Banana-Republic dictators get the message.


Rob444 says...
1:14pm Mon 20 Jul 09

The SHA are paid by us all, via taxes.

Are we going to let the tail wag the dog or are we going to get rid of tin-pot dictators?

We appear to be moving towards the likelihood civil disobedience over this issue unless common sense prevails.

If people start ingesting this chemical (which is NOT the same that is put into fluoride toothpaste), then the side effect of dumbing-down will kick in.


Oracle1 says...
1:21pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Big Boy wrote:
200000 people live in the affected area. 10000 responded to consultation. 7200 were against introduction of fluoride. 7200 divided by 200000 is 0.036. So basically we have a tiny minority & a flakey local paper spouting off. Ho-hum.
It is only apathy preventing people from doing anything. That is the trick that holds people down via fear and stress. This is a key health/democratic issue that can not be ignored. Why not engage your brain, do some research and then put forward a conscious argument.

B. L. says...
2:16pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Rob444 wrote:
The SHA are paid by us all, via taxes.

Are we going to let the tail wag the dog or are we going to get rid of tin-pot dictators?

We appear to be moving towards the likelihood civil disobedience over this issue unless common sense prevails.

If people start ingesting this chemical (which is NOT the same that is put into fluoride toothpaste), then the side effect of dumbing-down will kick in.

Great one Rob, I don't know if it was intentional but your last paragraph made me laugh. ".. then the side effect of dumbing-down will kick in", having read Echo stories and some of the posts on this site for quite a while, how much more can kick in. Thanks for the laugh though. :o)

goard says...
2:29pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Oracle has the right word - apathy. Whenever there is a vote there are more people who can't be bothered than other's that can - even the bloggers agree - fluoride is poison and we don't want it and I like to think most of us bloggers have a finger on the pulse of the City. I think that is how plotters and planners use psychology, they know many are at work, many don't read the Echo or indeed just can't be bothered - there is always someone who will do it. All 'ruling parties' weigh it all up and know most of us are apathetic! psychology is a Dictators weapon. Yes, I agree if there could be a unison of voices but to turn up for a vote is another thing for many.

goard

Pam W says...
2:49pm Mon 20 Jul 09

So the SHA is saying it doesn't care about public opinion - that contravenes the terms of the 2003 Water Act. Where is the ombudsman in all this?

soton1980 says...
5:55pm Mon 20 Jul 09

So much for living in a democratic country!!

MyNameIsNotImportant says...
7:10pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Big Boy wrote:
200000 people live in the affected area. 10000 responded to consultation. 7200 were against introduction of fluoride. 7200 divided by 200000 is 0.036. So basically we have a tiny minority & a flakey local paper spouting off. Ho-hum.
What can I say, ill-informed - uneducated - ****!!!!

MyNameIsNotImportant says...
7:12pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Big Boy wrote:
200000 people live in the affected area. 10000 responded to consultation. 7200 were against introduction of fluoride. 7200 divided by 200000 is 0.036. So basically we have a tiny minority & a flakey local paper spouting off. Ho-hum.
What can I say, ill-informed - uneducated - T.W.A.T!!!!

sadtobehere says...
7:39pm Mon 20 Jul 09

Why did they waste so much money on telling us about Fluoride then say they would ingnore what we want?
This country is quickly becoming a dictatorship.

Is it not time to have a vote of no-confidence in the health authorfity chiefs? How much were they paid for this fiasco? What expenses were claimed?

southy says...
8:09pm Mon 20 Jul 09

well if you want some thing done about it, vote in the socialist party, who has now with drawn there support to the right wing labour party, and will be standing this general election

Condor Man says...
7:12am Tue 21 Jul 09

southy wrote:
well if you want some thing done about it, vote in the socialist party, who has now with drawn there support to the right wing labour party, and will be standing this general election
really? I would have though the Tories would be a better bet as they would no doubt start to dispand these bloated health authorities as part of the cut-backs.

Frankacne says...
8:55am Tue 21 Jul 09

All the most recent evidence indicates that fluoride is a toxic carcinogen and aggressive acid, and those that propose its use in our water are either making a profit out of it or are in denial. Fluoride. Their ears are closed and their brains are addled. Perhaps if people pass their water bills to the SHA and PCT members so that they can pay for that which they worship, it would force the legal action which must now be the only option in a civilised and lawful society. Its not a medicine, its a poison and its not good for man nor beast. Its unethical and illegal. Dont vote for these madmen, collect a fighting fund and sue them.

Redback says...
8:55am Tue 21 Jul 09

A referendum is NOT the answer!!!

You're on the wrong track Echo.

There is simply NOT enough evidence to make a valid judgement, EITHER WAY, on whether flouridation is effective, or safe. The York study that another commenter kindly pointed me to makes that absolutely clear, as has Ben Goldacre.

Given this, it makes not a blind bit of difference what the referendum result is, or what the SHA's opinion is. Does nobody understand what Evidence Based Medicine IS?

It would appear that the courts are the only way this will be satisfactorily resolved, and even then it would probably go all the way to the ECHR. Does anyone know how this process could be achieved?

southy says...
10:21am Tue 21 Jul 09

Redback wrote:
A referendum is NOT the answer!!!

You're on the wrong track Echo.

There is simply NOT enough evidence to make a valid judgement, EITHER WAY, on whether flouridation is effective, or safe. The York study that another commenter kindly pointed me to makes that absolutely clear, as has Ben Goldacre.

Given this, it makes not a blind bit of difference what the referendum result is, or what the SHA's opinion is. Does nobody understand what Evidence Based Medicine IS?

It would appear that the courts are the only way this will be satisfactorily resolved, and even then it would probably go all the way to the ECHR. Does anyone know how this process could be achieved?
yes if in doubt, then dont add it, till you know that 100% sure, it will not do any harm.
short term fluoride dont do harm in very small doses, long term it will do alot off harm, in small doses, recomendations on tooth paste is to spit it out, and this is the safest type of fluoride.

Pam W says...
7:03pm Tue 21 Jul 09

Evidence-based medicine: Please would the SHA tell readers of the Echo which specific piece(s) of research convinced them to fluoridate? That's all I need to know. Please tell us so we can see what you're basing your opinion on.

jwillie6 says...
7:56am Wed 22 Jul 09

In the U.S., when an election is held, people vote down fluoridation over 80% of the time. the people know the truth that it is unsafe and inefecctive.
Go to www.fluoridealeret.o
rg and read the scientific articles there. Also you will see a petition of over 2600 professionals calling on governments to stop fluoridation.
Check out the loss of IQ and the extra bone cnacer in children. In the elderly it causes thyroid damage, broken hips (from brittle bones) and other cancers.

db_3 says...
9:36am Fri 24 Jul 09

I'm utterly amazed how the SHA has the power to dictate the blanket force feeding of chemicals not related to water quality.

Jenjo says...
8:15am Sat 25 Jul 09

If MPs Denham and Whitehead really believe, as they claim, that the SHA should win more public confidence before proceeding, they should propose an amendement to the Water Bill that currently gives the SHA total power.

Rambling Rose says...
1:23pm Fri 31 Jul 09

Please note the proof below that fluoride in water damages teeth.

This is admitted in a dental patient brochure that was obtained from a dental surgery.

The brochure is titled, 'Patient Brochure # 12 (PEB # 12) Fissure sealants and Preventive Resin Restorations'.

I quote: '...there have been some UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES (from fluoridated water). The one of relevance to this document refers to the way in which decay operates within a tooth. Fluoride causes a tremendous increase in the hardness of the enamel and a decrease in the solubility of the enamel in response to an acid attack caused by plaque. DECAY DOES NOT BECOME SO EVIDENT TO THE DENTIST as it did previously. Instead of the decay forming an open cavity which was easily visualised and easily felt by a sharp metal probe, decay now tends to start INSIDE a tooth BELOW THE ENAMEL. This is because the bacteria and saliva can get through at the very fine crack on the surface, we call the fissure and commence decaying at the softer portion of the tooth inside called the dentine. As a result of this, the decay can go undetected for many, many years and ends up in what dentists refer to now as a 'fluoride bomb'. The inside of the tooth is completely decayed but the outside looks fairly normal. Sometimes there is a slight discolouration evident through the enamel, but often the DECAY CANNOT EVEN BE FELT WITH A SHARP METAL PROBE- this is a major concern to dentists because for decades we have relied on diagnosis of decay by feeling the softening of the enamel with a metal probe. We can no longer do this'

The author of this article goes on to advise three treatments that have been devised to try to overcome these problems that have been caused by what the brochure's author says is 'fluoride in water'.

Groups of words have been capitalized above to show the emphasis that was placed on these words in bold lettering in the brochure.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN AUSTRALIA: International phone + 61 2 6568 3773 or fax + 61 2 6568 3774.

TO ORDER THIS BROCHURE IN THE US: Phone 1877 227 0855 or fax 1877 227 0105.

claire louise 33 says...
11:26am Wed 19 Aug 09

its strange how the people who want this poison added to the water supply so badly arnt even going to be the ones drinking it...???..also it concerns me that if the so called "state" of southamptons childrens teeth doesnt improve with this so called wonder addition ..how far will they upt the amount or stretch their attempts to force the hand of the public as to how they take care of their children..? I for one will ...not...be drinking it and neither will my children...as we also dont eat toothpaste or cook our spuds in it...!!!! Its out rageouse and morally wrong...if i have a head ache that does not give me the right to mass medicate the whole town as well as myself on the assuption that they may have one too...??? some one some where has to stop this before it gets out of hand....im sure the goverment will not be holding their hands up if people become ill because of an overdose ..it will all be a mass coverup as per useuall, people with big names will try to fob of the adverage jo with a load of nonsense..

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