Southampton City Council to crack down on 'English speaking' cab stickers (From Daily Echo)
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Southampton City Council to crack down on 'English speaking' cab stickers
4:18pm Tuesday 2nd February 2010 in
-
- By Matt Smith » Politics and business reporter
COUNCIL bosses today vowed to crackdown on taxi drivers displaying "English speaking" stickers that have sparked a racism row.
The council has threatened cabbies with suspension if they display St George and Union Flag stickers proclaiming they are "English-speaking" drivers.
It comes after the Daily Echo revealed up to a dozen drivers were showing the notices in their rear windscreens in protest at poor English of some ethnic minority cabbies.
Taxi representatives, councillors and racism campaigners have branded them "racist" and demanded they are removed.
Now the council has said that any cabbie that has a sign or a St George flag in their taxi window will have their licence suspended if they do not take them down within seven days.
The council says they need permission to put up any sign. It is also asking members of the public to report any such signs.
The sticker issue was raised at secret consultation meeting between the trade Southampton City Council last week.
Comments(106)
housewife
says...
5:01pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I have seen a wide range of national flags in Taxis.
Why is the English one not permitted?
costa gaz
says...
5:03pm Tue 2 Feb 10
!
Unlimited* Service
says...
5:03pm Tue 2 Feb 10
1 - "It is also asking members of the public to report any such signs"
Council obviously not interested in us reporting drivers who can't speak English. Isn't that a requirement of their licence?
Typical desk jockeys in the Council.
2 - the Echo have censored a bunch of messages posted earlier. The Daily Mail has this story today and the comments forum is a much better read.
bravebeth
says...
5:05pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I am fed up with taxi drivers who do not know Southampton and do not speak English. What is wrong with taxi drivers being patriotic - it is not racism.
Dan Kerins
says...
5:05pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Unlimited* Service wrote:This is a new story. The previous comments are all on the older story, which this one links to.
Two points::-
1 - "It is also asking members of the public to report any such signs"
Council obviously not interested in us reporting drivers who can't speak English. Isn't that a requirement of their licence?
Typical desk jockeys in the Council.
2 - the Echo have censored a bunch of messages posted earlier. The Daily Mail has this story today and the comments forum is a much better read.
Redondo Saint
says...
5:06pm Tue 2 Feb 10
This is a communication issue!!
Is it wrong to want someone that is taking you somewhere to understand what you are saying???
Here we go again with the PC brigade and their attempts to hijack a simple situation.
Can you imagine this happening in a city in France or Spain???
You couldn't make it up...
The Wickham Man
says...
5:11pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy
says...
5:11pm Tue 2 Feb 10
on face book there is a page to boycott such taxi.
mac1989
says...
5:21pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Unlimited* Service
says...
5:23pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:You should really get out a bit - where I live in Spain the supermarkets have little signs above checkouts showing the flags of Countries like England, Germany and the Netherlands with messages like "I speak English". It is implied the staff speak Spanish. A similar system could operate with the taxis in Southampton but doesn't - afterall there must be a large number of languages spoken by drivers.
the council not asking to take down english speaking signs just the st george flag. on face book there is a page to boycott such taxi.
The assumption that taxi drivers in Southampton speak English can't be made (through experience) - but isn't it a condition of their licence they speak English?
Unlimited* Service
says...
5:24pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Dan Kerins wrote:Noted - the two hour older story now appears before breakfast news items. I didn't believe the news page would want me to scroll that far back.
Unlimited* Service wrote: Two points::- 1 - "It is also asking members of the public to report any such signs" Council obviously not interested in us reporting drivers who can't speak English. Isn't that a requirement of their licence? Typical desk jockeys in the Council. 2 - the Echo have censored a bunch of messages posted earlier. The Daily Mail has this story today and the comments forum is a much better read.This is a new story. The previous comments are all on the older story, which this one links to.
southy
says...
5:28pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Unlimited* Service wrote:i do know what your on about, and i agree a taxi driver should display all the different languages, but they are not, and it here where the problem is laying, like you i do know that a load of taxi driver's can speak other languages, but are they displaying the country/s that they can speak, no
southy wrote:You should really get out a bit - where I live in Spain the supermarkets have little signs above checkouts showing the flags of Countries like England, Germany and the Netherlands with messages like "I speak English". It is implied the staff speak Spanish. A similar system could operate with the taxis in Southampton but doesn't - afterall there must be a large number of languages spoken by drivers.
the council not asking to take down english speaking signs just the st george flag. on face book there is a page to boycott such taxi.
The assumption that taxi drivers in Southampton speak English can't be made (through experience) - but isn't it a condition of their licence they speak English?
Common
says...
5:30pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Unlimited* Service
says...
5:44pm Tue 2 Feb 10
""I am taxi drive and speak english OK I put stick in window of taxi. this is very racist. try get peple to use just white man taxis
- Suffiq Ullah, Southampton, 2/2/2010 13:52"
This has got to be a joke post, right? I almost fell off my chair reading it.
- SecularBrit, Tyne & Wear""
Comments much more amusing over there - just don't hold your mug of tea over the keyboard while reading them.
kaysnan
says...
5:45pm Tue 2 Feb 10
clausentum
says...
5:46pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Common wrote:Dear Ethel,
Some Soton taxi drivers might be a bit racist?! Well blow me down and call me Ethel.
This is copy of a posting from the day's earlier thread on this article:
King Mush wrote:
“Just look across the Big Pond to see the most amazing New World built on mass immigration over the last 500 years.
They fly their flags all over the place with pride, despite the downsides of inherently racist attitudes. The Stars and Stripes are paraded by all races, creeds and colours and are flown outside many of their homes.
How come this little island has so many 'problems' when it comes to displaying our own symbol that has been around since 1707. Nothing wrong with others displaying their own flags where relevant and we should be able to share in a multicultural society, despite the problems caused by certain sections of our community”
Clausentum wrote, in reply:
“A few months ago I found myself driving on a USA freeway behind a bright red Dodge Ram 3500 pickup truck. The entire back of the pickup truck was covered by a giant Stars & Stripes Flag decal. Below that, on the shiny chrome bumper, was the following bumper sticker in bold black lettering:
Don't like my Country?
Dial 1-800-Go-Home
Hilarious.
The pickup truck driver was expressing his freedom of speech.”
Red&White Power
says...
5:49pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Time for all those that back them to complain about muslim/islamic flags in southampton taxis. Also complain about Perry Mcmilan and his communist/terrorist regalia.
jono1974
says...
5:51pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Gladbachsaint
says...
5:52pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I'm for keeping the stickers.
Stephen McAthey
says...
5:56pm Tue 2 Feb 10
IDIOTS.
espanuel
says...
6:05pm Tue 2 Feb 10
My View from the Hill
says...
6:06pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I've heard this is happening quite alot, I think if customers are getting ripped off by foreign drivers, customers have a choice which taxi they enter, and those customers who wish to have an English speaking driver should be allowed too.
It's not racist, it's consumer choice, look at the Shirley High Street many shop sign say Polish Shop, you would assume the owner is a Polish speaker, I don't the council cracking down on that and I don't see anyone calling that racist or anything else for that matter.
EELS MAN
says...
6:07pm Tue 2 Feb 10
They never cease to amaze & anger me.
All you ever get from this bunch is "you can't do this", "you can't do that" & if you do were going to charge you for the pleaseure.
I do hope someone from this council reads this to see how hated they are.
They really are Cr@p!
Condor Man
says...
6:11pm Tue 2 Feb 10
My View from the Hill wrote:another problem is minicab drivers picking up unbooked fairs. One pulled up when my dad was out and he refused to get in as the driver was breaking the law. The fault is mostly with a few minicab companies, we all know who they are so if you want this problem to stop boycott firms who's drivers are acting illegally.
Friends of mine (group of 4 people) and myself (in another group of 4 people) both got picked up in Bitterne and dropped off in Bedford Place, this was at the same time, same taxi company, taking the same route, my groups fare was £3.00 more expensive than my friends, my driver was not English, my friends driver was, I contested this with my driver and went on in language I didn't understand, but he understood me and trust £3.00 back into my hand. I've heard this is happening quite alot, I think if customers are getting ripped off by foreign drivers, customers have a choice which taxi they enter, and those customers who wish to have an English speaking driver should be allowed too. It's not racist, it's consumer choice, look at the Shirley High Street many shop sign say Polish Shop, you would assume the owner is a Polish speaker, I don't the council cracking down on that and I don't see anyone calling that racist or anything else for that matter.
Redback
says...
6:15pm Tue 2 Feb 10
If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
southy
says...
6:16pm Tue 2 Feb 10
jono1974 wrote:they are the last people you want to have any power, not even the power of sweeping the streets.
WE NEED A BNP COUNCIL NOW.
just being reading another site about is, the same thing is happening in other parts of the country.
point to ponder, why the st george flag. why not the union flag like you get over seas in some countrys. like in supermarkets in spain, its the union flag that is shown and not the st george flag.
its the connection between st george flag and the EDL and BNP, i will aft to take it that the taxis that have a st george flag sticker and not the union flag are racist
Red&White Power
says...
6:18pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redback wrote:Sounds like some sad left wing term
The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
Redback
says...
6:22pm Tue 2 Feb 10
jono1974 wrote:LOL. Forget right-wing left-wing politics, forget immigration, racism, protectionism, forget politics altogether. The truth remains that the BNP are a group of swivel-eyed misfits fronted up by a holocaust-denying nutter. They're a joke. They're not even taken seriously by most dedicated fascists. :-D
WE NEED A BNP COUNCIL NOW.
Redback
says...
6:24pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Red&White Power wrote:What? How can a description of an aspect of political linguistics have an opinion?
Redback wrote:Sounds like some sad left wing term
The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
southy
says...
6:27pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redback wrote:redback spot on it is dog-whistle politics/racism
Red&White Power wrote:What? How can a description of an aspect of political linguistics have an opinion?
Redback wrote:Sounds like some sad left wing term
The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
Lone Ranger
says...
6:50pm Tue 2 Feb 10
warness
says...
6:52pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:Southy - you are a redback-licking scamp.
Redback wrote:redback spot on it is dog-whistle politics/racismRed&White Power wrote:What? How can a description of an aspect of political linguistics have an opinion?Redback wrote: The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.Sounds like some sad left wing term
Redback - you are a professor of the highest order - "google it" gives all the legitimacy it needs - you MUST be right
ha ha ha ha ha.......
What a tag team you pair are
freemantlegirl2
says...
6:54pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:I hadn't thought about it like that - good point.
Redback wrote:redback spot on it is dog-whistle politics/racism
Red&White Power wrote:What? How can a description of an aspect of political linguistics have an opinion?
Redback wrote:Sounds like some sad left wing term
The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
However, I believe this is down to the Council. It should be demanded that drivers have a good grasp of the English language, and let's face it it's not the easiest language to learn, and have a decent knowledge of the city before they are considered for a licence, private cab or taxi. Firms who run companies in the city should have Standards that they have to adhere to. If this is done it removes the need for 'stickers' of any kind because the public will know that they will be provided with a certain standard. I have to say on more than one occasion I've ordered a cab/got in a taxi where the driver 's English was so bad I couldn't understand him. This is one job where people should be able to make themselves understood and understand what is being asked of them. You would not get a job in another European country as a taxi driver if you didn't speak the lingo! that isn't racism it's fact.
cowley
says...
6:56pm Tue 2 Feb 10
a friend of mine was picked up at asda in town and asked the driver to go to west end. before she knew it she was just about to join the itchen bridge! he thought she said weston!
and he refused to knock money off the fair!!!! absolute JOKE! customer should have the right to choose after getting ripped off.
Redback
says...
6:59pm Tue 2 Feb 10
freemantlegirl2 wrote:Proper bit of reasoned argument fmgirl2. I agree with every word in theory - depending on how it was put into practice of course.
southy wrote:I hadn't thought about it like that - good point.
Redback wrote:redback spot on it is dog-whistle politics/racism
Red&White Power wrote:What? How can a description of an aspect of political linguistics have an opinion?
Redback wrote:Sounds like some sad left wing term
The stickers are dog-whistle racism, plain and simple. They shouldn't be banned, but they should be condemned. If you don't know what dog-whistle racism is, please google it before ranting. Thank you.
However, I believe this is down to the Council. It should be demanded that drivers have a good grasp of the English language, and let's face it it's not the easiest language to learn, and have a decent knowledge of the city before they are considered for a licence, private cab or taxi. Firms who run companies in the city should have Standards that they have to adhere to. If this is done it removes the need for 'stickers' of any kind because the public will know that they will be provided with a certain standard. I have to say on more than one occasion I've ordered a cab/got in a taxi where the driver 's English was so bad I couldn't understand him. This is one job where people should be able to make themselves understood and understand what is being asked of them. You would not get a job in another European country as a taxi driver if you didn't speak the lingo! that isn't racism it's fact.
Redback
says...
7:22pm Tue 2 Feb 10
"You would not get a job in another European country as a taxi driver if you didn't speak the lingo! that isn't racism it's fact."
That's not true - it may be in the tourist centres, but then most central London cabbies speak English fluently too.
Mr BCB
says...
7:30pm Tue 2 Feb 10
steve.50
says...
7:31pm Tue 2 Feb 10
The public obviously want these signs and its time the council started listening to the public and the drivers. There are other more important issues the council should be worrying about like the criminal records of these foreign drivers that cannot be checked and letting a convicted criminal for people trafficing who was wearing a tag carrying on driving while an innocent taxi driver has not been unable to work for a year until he cleared his name in court over a rape accusation/charge.
Mr BCB
says...
7:31pm Tue 2 Feb 10
peasant
says...
7:40pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I've seen more competent joyriders!!!!!
Nightime
says...
7:42pm Tue 2 Feb 10
kaysnan wrote:So if I refuse to take my information sign down, the council are saying that they will suspend me from driving my Taxi, I then will not be able to make a living. Then when I take legal proceedings to sue the council for an unlawful suspension, stopping me from making a living. On what grounds will their defence be? I think my case would be very strong, and a good way to obtain some compensation from Southampton City Council. My sign is going to stay up. If you suspend me, then I will sue you…….
I disagree with the councill. It is not being racist by displaying these stickers, it is mearly saying that your driver can converse with you if so required and you do not have to try and explain where you need to go to reach your destination. Have experienced not being able to communicate with a driver and was taken the very long way home, with only a grunt if i commented. I really don't see how the stickers can be called racist, they are just making a statement, and i for one am thankful for that.
Miles Way
says...
7:42pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Personally I expect a UK taxi driver to have firm grasp of the English language and know his/her way around (the last Southampton one I used was utterly useless and impossible to communicate with)
max8678
says...
7:48pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redback
says...
7:53pm Tue 2 Feb 10
peasant wrote:Me too. One of them was, I suspect, speeding his tats off. He drove at breakneck speed up Athelstan Road with me muttering silent prayers beside him. If he wasn't on speed, he was borderline suicidal.
Think yourselves lucky. Not only do we have the language barrier with some cabbies, there's a few round here who can't drive a car to save their lives. Terrifying some of them are!!!
I've seen more competent joyriders!!!!!
He was local mind you, so I don't suppose that counts.
Sunny Saint
says...
7:55pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I thought I lived in the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, and that it was an EU requirement to fly a British symbol on a British registered car!!!
Silly me, I suppose I'd better go and get my friggin plates changed.
Nightaximan
says...
8:01pm Tue 2 Feb 10
myturntohaveasay
says...
8:14pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy
says...
8:18pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Miles Way wrote:the trouble with what you calling our national flag, the st george cross is a coat of arms of a past king. richard the loin heart. our national flag is the union flag. and the george cross is only patron st. and not the national flag. england is spilt up in regions with its own flags like down here its the yellow dragon on a red field the flag of wessex.
Southy suggests a connection between displaying the St George flag and BNP/EDL yet the Welsh commonly display their flag and the Scots theirs, neither use the Union flag, yet to be English and displaying our national flag is somehow racist??
Personally I expect a UK taxi driver to have firm grasp of the English language and know his/her way around (the last Southampton one I used was utterly useless and impossible to communicate with)
and if you like to look at scottish and welsh drivers they dont put down like welsh speaking drivers, or scottish speaking drivers.
Redback
says...
8:22pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Just thought some of you may find that a fun fact. :-)
southy
says...
8:25pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redback wrote:lol you sod redback i was coming to that a bit later. and a muslim.
St George was Turkish by the way.
Just thought some of you may find that a fun fact. :-)
X Old Bill
says...
8:27pm Tue 2 Feb 10
They always seem very happy to announce the benefits of Cruise ships visiting the city.
Some of those cruise ships sail under Italian or other flags.
The next time one arrives, can I suggest that 'those in charge' visit the ship and look at the crew uniforms. Look at the pretty badges on their lapels, those are called 'flags' and they indicate that the wearer can communicate in the language of the people who use that flag.
It's right on your door step for heavens sake!
It would, of course, be even better if the taxi drivers acknowledged all the other languages that they were competent in using. Maybe the council should encourage more of this rather that trying to stop it.
My View from the Hill
says...
8:30pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Nightime wrote:Good for you, this council has gone stark raving mad, they are a bunch power crazy control freaks, who are so risk adverse.
kaysnan wrote:So if I refuse to take my information sign down, the council are saying that they will suspend me from driving my Taxi, I then will not be able to make a living. Then when I take legal proceedings to sue the council for an unlawful suspension, stopping me from making a living. On what grounds will their defence be? I think my case would be very strong, and a good way to obtain some compensation from Southampton City Council. My sign is going to stay up. If you suspend me, then I will sue you…….
I disagree with the councill. It is not being racist by displaying these stickers, it is mearly saying that your driver can converse with you if so required and you do not have to try and explain where you need to go to reach your destination. Have experienced not being able to communicate with a driver and was taken the very long way home, with only a grunt if i commented. I really don't see how the stickers can be called racist, they are just making a statement, and i for one am thankful for that.
They are more scared of getting sued by the foreign taxi drivers claiming this move will restrict their trade, so much so this are prepared to discriminate against the English speaking drivers for displaying a sign informing their potential customers what language they speak.
Numptiness being enforced by a bunch of SCC numpties, they should go a do something serious with their time, like fixing the bloody roads.
You couldn't make this s**t up, if you were writing a fiction novel.
Miles Way
says...
8:34pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:The Cross of St George (accepting any bizarre link St George may have had to England, Redback) is the undisputed national flag of England, whereas the Union flag represents the UK, although I'd expect a Union flag with "I speak English" on it would have the same reaction from some quarters.
Miles Way wrote:the trouble with what you calling our national flag, the st george cross is a coat of arms of a past king. richard the loin heart. our national flag is the union flag. and the george cross is only patron st. and not the national flag. england is spilt up in regions with its own flags like down here its the yellow dragon on a red field the flag of wessex.
Southy suggests a connection between displaying the St George flag and BNP/EDL yet the Welsh commonly display their flag and the Scots theirs, neither use the Union flag, yet to be English and displaying our national flag is somehow racist??
Personally I expect a UK taxi driver to have firm grasp of the English language and know his/her way around (the last Southampton one I used was utterly useless and impossible to communicate with)
and if you like to look at scottish and welsh drivers they dont put down like welsh speaking drivers, or scottish speaking drivers.
Didn't the Welsh do something similar with their nationalistic drive to return Wales to a primarily Welsh speaking nation?
On subject, given the choice between 2 taxis, one of which displays this sticker, I'd go for the one where I'd know English is spoken, irrespective of the origin of the driver - if I'm going to spend my money on a fare there's a minimum standard I expect from the driver -not least the ability to communicate effectively.
This is not racist & maybe those that can't speak English should realise it's a desirable skill if you're intending to offer your services to the general public!
City Final
says...
8:36pm Tue 2 Feb 10
My View from the Hill
says...
8:36pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:Thanks for history of flag's and ensigns, I can always rely on you to give great informative posts on most subjects.
Miles Way wrote:the trouble with what you calling our national flag, the st george cross is a coat of arms of a past king. richard the loin heart. our national flag is the union flag. and the george cross is only patron st. and not the national flag. england is spilt up in regions with its own flags like down here its the yellow dragon on a red field the flag of wessex.
Southy suggests a connection between displaying the St George flag and BNP/EDL yet the Welsh commonly display their flag and the Scots theirs, neither use the Union flag, yet to be English and displaying our national flag is somehow racist??
Personally I expect a UK taxi driver to have firm grasp of the English language and know his/her way around (the last Southampton one I used was utterly useless and impossible to communicate with)
and if you like to look at scottish and welsh drivers they dont put down like welsh speaking drivers, or scottish speaking drivers.
Miles Way
says...
8:50pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:Forgot to mention, the St George Cross isn't the coat of arms of a past king (BTW who was Richard the Loin Heart?) - kings used the 3 lions emblem on their COA.
Miles Way wrote:the trouble with what you calling our national flag, the st george cross is a coat of arms of a past king. richard the loin heart. our national flag is the union flag. and the george cross is only patron st. and not the national flag. england is spilt up in regions with its own flags like down here its the yellow dragon on a red field the flag of wessex.
Southy suggests a connection between displaying the St George flag and BNP/EDL yet the Welsh commonly display their flag and the Scots theirs, neither use the Union flag, yet to be English and displaying our national flag is somehow racist??
Personally I expect a UK taxi driver to have firm grasp of the English language and know his/her way around (the last Southampton one I used was utterly useless and impossible to communicate with)
and if you like to look at scottish and welsh drivers they dont put down like welsh speaking drivers, or scottish speaking drivers.
colinpickford1
says...
9:00pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redback wrote:I think this may dragon.
St George was Turkish by the way.
Just thought some of you may find that a fun fact. :-)
ken j
says...
9:05pm Tue 2 Feb 10
B. L.
says...
9:09pm Tue 2 Feb 10
clausentum wrote:And there you have it in a nutshell. Alternatives are:
Common wrote:Dear Ethel,
Some Soton taxi drivers might be a bit racist?! Well blow me down and call me Ethel.
This is copy of a posting from the day's earlier thread on this article:
King Mush wrote:
“Just look across the Big Pond to see the most amazing New World built on mass immigration over the last 500 years.
They fly their flags all over the place with pride, despite the downsides of inherently racist attitudes. The Stars and Stripes are paraded by all races, creeds and colours and are flown outside many of their homes.
How come this little island has so many 'problems' when it comes to displaying our own symbol that has been around since 1707. Nothing wrong with others displaying their own flags where relevant and we should be able to share in a multicultural society, despite the problems caused by certain sections of our community”
Clausentum wrote, in reply:
“A few months ago I found myself driving on a USA freeway behind a bright red Dodge Ram 3500 pickup truck. The entire back of the pickup truck was covered by a giant Stars & Stripes Flag decal. Below that, on the shiny chrome bumper, was the following bumper sticker in bold black lettering:
Don't like my Country?
Dial 1-800-Go-Home
Hilarious.
The pickup truck driver was expressing his freedom of speech.”
Don't like my Flag and Country ?
Dial 1-800-Eat-Sh*t.
Too much PC and Human Rights t**ts in the country, that woman Blair comes to mind. How is it that certain "clerics" can spew hatred and incite violence and no one says a dickie bird, but something as NON-racial (except to the cab drivers that can't speak English) as this is a major issue. No wonder the country is so screwed up. Take a leaf from the Metropolitan Police test for London cab drivers, as some people have commented on, or are they "racist" too.
There are also those that have pointed out the origins of the language, jeepers, how pedantic can you get. It's about SPOKEN English, not the glottogony of it, some people need to get with the program.
southy
says...
9:11pm Tue 2 Feb 10
kingkong 1
says...
9:28pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy
says...
9:28pm Tue 2 Feb 10
kingkong 1
says...
9:35pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Red&White Power
says...
9:36pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Saintlygirl
says...
9:42pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy
says...
9:46pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Red&White Power wrote:what do you mean that poll, dont mean a lot there is to many people that post on here that have multi names, and use them.
84% LOL eat that southy
let me take you back a little bit more than a few years ago. the bnp put up a candidate in the local elections here. and and who was it that supported them, yes right a few taxi drivers, and a few football supporters. and do you know what, the bnp are going to be standing in 2 and maybe all 3 constituency in southampton. they also going to be putting up some local candidates for the council. again this year.
thats why i agreed with redback when he said dog-whistling this is what it really is all about.
Miles Way
says...
9:54pm Tue 2 Feb 10
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
Southampton Heart
says...
9:59pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Miles Way
says...
10:09pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Southampton Heart wrote:No, but with an increasing number of idiots in positions of power it's only a matter of time...
What is happening to our Country?...have we been taken over already?.
freefinker
says...
10:14pm Tue 2 Feb 10
.
Firstly, let me say I think all taxi drivers should have a grasp of English that is sufficient to be able to understand the destination of the fare; and a good grasp of the geography of our city so that they can take you straight there. If you haven't got that you shouldn't be driving a taxi.
However, there is much xenophobia in several of the above post.
Our flags (union jack and to a lesser extent St George) have, unfortunately, been the subject of a high-jacking by the extreme neo-nazis. Until such time as we can detach this association I for one, and I am sure many in the ethnic communities, are just a little dubious about "flag-waving" in case we send out the wrong message.
It seems to me, also, that some people need to be reminded that we are an island of immigrants - always have been, always will be.
It always takes a few generations for new arrivals to blend in - but blend in they always do. And each successive wave adds to our culture and, indeed, our language.
So, let's show some toleration towards those who often fill the jobs that the "indigenous" population (whoever they are?) are not too keen to take on.
taximan05
says...
10:22pm Tue 2 Feb 10
I live in England, I speak English, i would display other languages if i was fluent. These signs have been displayed for years and the council agreed they were informative when first displayed so why are they being deemed racist now? These are not racist as anyone can display them, they are not prejudice or discriminating, they are informative. Speaking English is not racist and the flag gives pictorial information to those who cannot read.
S'famptongal
says...
10:23pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Miles Way
says...
10:32pm Tue 2 Feb 10
As I've said I don't see this as a racist issue, despite the efforts of some to make it so. It seems logical as you also point out, that speaking English adequately should be the absolute minimum standard for driving a taxi in the UK & if there are those that don't then those that do (of any nationality) have every right to advertise the fact.
The hijacking of a flag by any extreme group is regretable but should not be a concern for immigrants - as an immigrant in Canada I have no issue with the Canadians proudly displaying their national & provincial flags. nor they with me displaying mine (George & the Union flag).
It seems the English are unable to be proud of showing patriotism in England without being labeled a racist.
warness
says...
10:40pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Redondo Saint
says...
10:58pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Rowester
says...
11:19pm Tue 2 Feb 10
By the way will the council be flying the Flag of St George on April 23rd....were losing our identity...Im proud to be English like other nationals are proud of where they come from...you go to Turkey..flags everywhere...you go to Pakistan..flags everywhere...you go to anywhere in the world ...and national flags fly with pride.......You fly a flag in England & your a trouble maker & a rascist...get a grip & fly that flag with pride. My Flag will fly with pride in Bitterne Park on the 23rd April....sorry am i sounding like a trouble making rascist
Condor Man
says...
11:32pm Tue 2 Feb 10
clausentum
says...
11:47pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Condor Man wrote:No merde !!
The taxi drivers who park up near my office offer such a base level of English- excessive use of the f and c words, that perhaps it would be nicer on the ears to have drivers swearing in something foreign
;-)
southy
says...
11:57pm Tue 2 Feb 10
Miles Way wrote:miles first thing first, all taxi drivers have taken a test, a test that is in english, some times accents can be a bit of a problem, that i will agree on. there is a lot of bs on here mainly by the multi name posters.
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
secondly the union flag would be more apt to use, has they speak english in wales scotland ireland and a number of other commonwealth countrys ie canada plus the usa. all you need to see is the union logo with out the writing. you go to other countrys like some supermarkets you dont see the st george flag you see the union flag this tells every one thats from an english speaking country. that english can be spoken at this counter.
and yes you do see the union flag at the 6 nations rugby you also see it at the world union rugby. and normally you see england writen across the middle.
the st george flag is not the english national flag, its a patron saint flag, england dont have a single flag, because england is made up from loads of old kingdoms ie white dragon on a black field cornwall, theres 2 kingdoms i name for you. cornwall also have another flag that it use most of the time. a white cross on a black field.
southy
says...
12:11am Wed 3 Feb 10
clausentum
says...
2:56am Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:Have you ever had a MRI scan??
Miles Way wrote:miles first thing first, all taxi drivers have taken a test, a test that is in english, some times accents can be a bit of a problem, that i will agree on. there is a lot of bs on here mainly by the multi name posters.
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
secondly the union flag would be more apt to use, has they speak english in wales scotland ireland and a number of other commonwealth countrys ie canada plus the usa. all you need to see is the union logo with out the writing. you go to other countrys like some supermarkets you dont see the st george flag you see the union flag this tells every one thats from an english speaking country. that english can be spoken at this counter.
and yes you do see the union flag at the 6 nations rugby you also see it at the world union rugby. and normally you see england writen across the middle.
the st george flag is not the english national flag, its a patron saint flag, england dont have a single flag, because england is made up from loads of old kingdoms ie white dragon on a black field cornwall, theres 2 kingdoms i name for you. cornwall also have another flag that it use most of the time. a white cross on a black field.
sw = mind-okay
You cannot make up this stuff. ;-)
Looney Cleo
says...
8:41am Wed 3 Feb 10
bassettgirl
says...
9:48am Wed 3 Feb 10
Someone higher in the council needs to step in and sort this out because there is obviously a big problem with foreign drivers, I have had experience of this in my job. Where I work when a child reaches a certain age we are allowed to send them home in a taxi on their own, several times the driver has not understood me, needed to use a sat nav and one didn't even know where Lordshill was. I have also had experience of a foreign driver taking one of my family members who is disabled miles out of the way, she wanted to go from Redbridge hill to the Oxfam shop in Romsey Rd, Shirley, a journey that should take 5 minutes, he took her down Wimpson Lane, along Millbrook and up Regents Park. Either he didn't know where he was going or he was trying to get more money from her. WAKE UP SOUTHAMPTON CITY COUNCIL - YOU HAVE A BIG PROBLEM ON YOUR HANDS!!!!!!!!!!
King Mush
says...
11:42am Wed 3 Feb 10
King Mush
says...
11:43am Wed 3 Feb 10
I prefer taxis to local buses. The last time I got on one I tripped over a couple on the stairs..........
Miles Way
says...
11:53am Wed 3 Feb 10
clausentum wrote:Yes he can CLausentum, worse, he believes what he posts. Bless.
southy wrote:Have you ever had a MRI scan??
Miles Way wrote:miles first thing first, all taxi drivers have taken a test, a test that is in english, some times accents can be a bit of a problem, that i will agree on. there is a lot of bs on here mainly by the multi name posters.
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
secondly the union flag would be more apt to use, has they speak english in wales scotland ireland and a number of other commonwealth countrys ie canada plus the usa. all you need to see is the union logo with out the writing. you go to other countrys like some supermarkets you dont see the st george flag you see the union flag this tells every one thats from an english speaking country. that english can be spoken at this counter.
and yes you do see the union flag at the 6 nations rugby you also see it at the world union rugby. and normally you see england writen across the middle.
the st george flag is not the english national flag, its a patron saint flag, england dont have a single flag, because england is made up from loads of old kingdoms ie white dragon on a black field cornwall, theres 2 kingdoms i name for you. cornwall also have another flag that it use most of the time. a white cross on a black field.
sw = mind-okay
You cannot make up this stuff. ;-)
7saint7
says...
12:10pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy
says...
12:39pm Wed 3 Feb 10
Miles Way wrote:miles and clausentum, if you go down to cornwall, what is the mostly likely or more often flag you see there, i can tell you now its not the union flag nor is it st george flag, the most popular flag is there own a white cross on a black field.
clausentum wrote:Yes he can CLausentum, worse, he believes what he posts. Bless.
southy wrote:Have you ever had a MRI scan??
Miles Way wrote:miles first thing first, all taxi drivers have taken a test, a test that is in english, some times accents can be a bit of a problem, that i will agree on. there is a lot of bs on here mainly by the multi name posters.
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
secondly the union flag would be more apt to use, has they speak english in wales scotland ireland and a number of other commonwealth countrys ie canada plus the usa. all you need to see is the union logo with out the writing. you go to other countrys like some supermarkets you dont see the st george flag you see the union flag this tells every one thats from an english speaking country. that english can be spoken at this counter.
and yes you do see the union flag at the 6 nations rugby you also see it at the world union rugby. and normally you see england writen across the middle.
the st george flag is not the english national flag, its a patron saint flag, england dont have a single flag, because england is made up from loads of old kingdoms ie white dragon on a black field cornwall, theres 2 kingdoms i name for you. cornwall also have another flag that it use most of the time. a white cross on a black field.
sw = mind-okay
You cannot make up this stuff. ;-)
google it before you put both feet in it.
Miles Way
says...
12:56pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:Southy, forgetting provincial flags, of which Cornwall's is one, the national flag of England is the George Cross. This doesn't mean local flags can't be flown and regions are becoming increasingly proud of their identity which is a good thing IMO, but (and you might like to take your own advice and Google it) the George Cross is and remains the flag of England.
Miles Way wrote:miles and clausentum, if you go down to cornwall, what is the mostly likely or more often flag you see there, i can tell you now its not the union flag nor is it st george flag, the most popular flag is there own a white cross on a black field.
clausentum wrote:Yes he can CLausentum, worse, he believes what he posts. Bless.
southy wrote:Have you ever had a MRI scan??
Miles Way wrote:miles first thing first, all taxi drivers have taken a test, a test that is in english, some times accents can be a bit of a problem, that i will agree on. there is a lot of bs on here mainly by the multi name posters.
southy wrote:PMSL Southy, ignoring the irrelevant history lesson please open your eyes; for a true nationalisitic "flag-fest" watch the 6 nations rugby games over the coming weeks - I doubt you'll see a single Union flag amongst the fans.
miles may i point out to you, the flag of st david is not used by the welsh very often, why because its a flag to a patron st, has is the flag of st andrew, st patrick, st george they are not national flags, 3 of those 4 countrys has there own flag, england is different it has regional flags, why because england is made up by a number of kingdoms, ireland dont use the st patrick flag they use a tri-colour flag. even scotland has another flag.
My point stands, this is the English national flag being used as prudent advertising; good news for those of us who would like to know that the person we trust to drive us home is at least able to speak and understand the language of the country in which he/she is working. Those seeking to dress it as a racist issue need a jolly good slap!
secondly the union flag would be more apt to use, has they speak english in wales scotland ireland and a number of other commonwealth countrys ie canada plus the usa. all you need to see is the union logo with out the writing. you go to other countrys like some supermarkets you dont see the st george flag you see the union flag this tells every one thats from an english speaking country. that english can be spoken at this counter.
and yes you do see the union flag at the 6 nations rugby you also see it at the world union rugby. and normally you see england writen across the middle.
the st george flag is not the english national flag, its a patron saint flag, england dont have a single flag, because england is made up from loads of old kingdoms ie white dragon on a black field cornwall, theres 2 kingdoms i name for you. cornwall also have another flag that it use most of the time. a white cross on a black field.
sw = mind-okay
You cannot make up this stuff. ;-)
google it before you put both feet in it.
southy
says...
1:39pm Wed 3 Feb 10
Miles Way
says...
2:17pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:As I said, go do some research Southy.
the george cross is not national flag, it is the patron saint flag of england and is used in the national flag the union flag. the st george cross has more in common in a region of france and other places, than it do here, wales has the st david cross whitch it to is used in the national flag, but they have there own country flag flag to, a red dragon on a upper white and lower green field, scotland is the same they have there own flag too rarely seen, but there is a red lion, on a yellow field, ireland is a harp with arrows on a grren field, there is no true english flag, because england is made up from loads of kingdoms.
Treas
says...
3:01pm Wed 3 Feb 10
Treas
says...
3:03pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy
says...
3:04pm Wed 3 Feb 10
Howardjo
says...
3:26pm Wed 3 Feb 10
B. L.
says...
3:30pm Wed 3 Feb 10
Miles Way wrote:Absolutely right of course, it's just how much time it will be. With all the PC and Human Rights freaks it won't be long, mainly because if "someone" doesn't like the way things are going then they pull the race card. Trouble is, they know all too well that there are many sycophantic idiots that will pander to their every whim.
Southampton Heart wrote:No, but with an increasing number of idiots in positions of power it's only a matter of time...
What is happening to our Country?...have we been taken over already?.
Miles Way
says...
3:39pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:Southy, did anyone say George was exclusive to England? No.
your the one showing lack of knowledge miles. and the one that really needs to do some real deep research, england is not the only country that has st george has a patron st. go to the library for the info, and not the web on this one, has like all ways web pages are a copy from other web pages and errors are made but never corrected. look up he herity banners flags and banners that be a good start for you. happy reading
Argue away, there are many provincial flags like Cornwall's but the St George Cross is the English flag.
I'm sure you know this but if not the flag of the Union is more recent & includes Scotland Wales & NI & symbolises the unity of those countries, however each retains it's own individual country flag.
I know full well the confused and shared history of the St Georges flag or specifically the simple red cross on a white background, dating back to crusader times. It is used as the English flag although England has no exclusive claim to it.
Curiously Montreal which isn't too far from me uses the same flag with 4 other emblems in the white sections for English/Scots/French and Irish - looks very nice, actually nicer than the St George flag, but as I am English and proud of it I fly the St George Cross - over here it's not uncommon to see English, Scottish & Welsh national flags (seldom the Union flag) and others flown outside houses; it seems ex-pats are often more proud to be noticed for their nationality than in their own country of origin?
Given the furore over this I'm not surprised - the tragedy is that something we should as Englishmen be proud of (as the Scots/Welsh are of theirs) has been hijacked by right wing groups - this is something the lawmakers must address.
Now, a bit of trivia, as I'm in Nova Scotia good manners dictates my St George's flag is flown beneath the Canadian national flag and would be below the Nova Scotia provincial flag (very similar to Scotland's) if I had one of those - then again I'd need a bigger flagpole to do that!
X Old Bill
says...
3:51pm Wed 3 Feb 10
You are confusing Banners with flags.
The colours of St George were used from the days when St George was adopted as the patron Saint of England, around the time of the Venerable Bede and became confirmed under the unified crown of Alfred.
The colours were flown by merchant ships trading with mainland Europe to show that they were not Barbarians.
The same colours were also adopted by the so called Crusaders when Pope Urban called them to arms at the end of the 11th Century. Those from England 'taking up the cross' used their own established cross on their surcoats. Later they applied it to shields and still later to flags. One Hundred years later Richard Coeur de lion wore the same colours on the 3rd crusade.
He was also the first English King to adopt the Arms of England consisting of Three gold lions passant (or trippant) on a red field.
This is the basis of the Banner of England.
The red lion Rampant of a gold field has been the Banner of Scotland since 1165.
Neither of these is a 'flag'.
The significant part about the current use of the Cross of St George is in its former use by the Crusaders fighting the tide Islam heading towards them, maybe if the current 'crusaders' were intelligent enough they would see the irony of it all. But I don't suppose they even know what the word crusade means.
southy
says...
5:16pm Wed 3 Feb 10
it not a provincial flag like cornwall, but old kingdoms that made up england.
st george was a muslim about 600ad who stop the flow of the pagan gods spreading to far east wards.
richard was not a an true english king but a french one, who brought back the st george cross, when john became king the st george cross disapared and it was henry the viii who reinterduce it again it stay till just after queen beth i then it went again and never show up again till the first union flag 1700's and later the st david cross was added that gives us the union flag of today.
old bill
king alfred never used the red cross on a white field, alfred went under the wessex flag the yellow dragon on a red field, even lo alfred was born out side wessex, it was wessex that made him king of the saxons and untied the saxon kingdoms for the first time and later the danes kingdoms.
pope urban another frenchman used the cross is right but the top part had the letter p and the field colour well it was any colour a lot did not have any colour at all or they used the sign of fish.
the lions are french to another french king richard father henry, you need to remember at this era of time the saxons was being suppress by the southern french kings.
chrisorann
says...
5:20pm Wed 3 Feb 10
X Old Bill
says...
6:48pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:St George was a Christian, born of a Christian family in Turkey in the 3rd Century. He Served as a Roman soldier and was put to death for not renouncing Christianity. So certainly prior to Constantine the Great. - You must be thinking of another Saint George!
miles you can get away with it by having a cross spar.
it not a provincial flag like cornwall, but old kingdoms that made up england.
st george was a muslim about 600ad who stop the flow of the pagan gods spreading to far east wards.
richard was not a an true english king but a french one, who brought back the st george cross, when john became king the st george cross disapared and it was henry the viii who reinterduce it again it stay till just after queen beth i then it went again and never show up again till the first union flag 1700's and later the st david cross was added that gives us the union flag of today.
old bill
king alfred never used the red cross on a white field, alfred went under the wessex flag the yellow dragon on a red field, even lo alfred was born out side wessex, it was wessex that made him king of the saxons and untied the saxon kingdoms for the first time and later the danes kingdoms.
pope urban another frenchman used the cross is right but the top part had the letter p and the field colour well it was any colour a lot did not have any colour at all or they used the sign of fish.
the lions are french to another french king richard father henry, you need to remember at this era of time the saxons was being suppress by the southern french kings.
You are still confusing Banners with Flags, the Wessex Wyvern is a banner.
England was under Norman rule from 1066, Primogeniture was not strictly followed I accept but some form of succession gave England Richard I.
The Normans controlled, at that time, large parts of what we now call France and Italy. Neither country existed then.
Enough now, this is all off topic!
southy
says...
7:37pm Wed 3 Feb 10
this era is very complex history.
at the time of 1066 there was another king of england edar who was the last male in line in the house of wessex. who the normans made an outlaw. and became known has edar the outlaw 1066 to 1126.
norman kings william i and william ii (rufus) spent there time here in england, after this henry i spend his time in the southern france kingdoms, king steven in england. then richard i spent his time in s/france, king john in england, then from henry ii to richard ii (5 kings in a row) all spent most of there time in southern france. now you can see why the red cross disapeared from england and would only be used if the kings made a visit. like when edward i ( longshanks ) came here to put down the scotish rebellion, they was not interest in england apart from getting more troops and tax money.
X Old Bill
says...
8:08pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy wrote:Perhaps you meant to type 'Edgar the Aetheling'. He was never crowned.
the wyvern dont belong to wessex it belongs to another king who was born out side of wessex king althelstan of mercia. the first true king of all of england, who later was made a saint. because he turn this country from pagan and orthodox to roman catholic.
this era is very complex history.
at the time of 1066 there was another king of england edar who was the last male in line in the house of wessex. who the normans made an outlaw. and became known has edar the outlaw 1066 to 1126.
norman kings william i and william ii (rufus) spent there time here in england, after this henry i spend his time in the southern france kingdoms, king steven in england. then richard i spent his time in s/france, king john in england, then from henry ii to richard ii (5 kings in a row) all spent most of there time in southern france. now you can see why the red cross disapeared from england and would only be used if the kings made a visit. like when edward i ( longshanks ) came here to put down the scotish rebellion, they was not interest in england apart from getting more troops and tax money.
southy
says...
10:41pm Wed 3 Feb 10
southy
says...
12:08pm Thu 4 Feb 10
there was indeed more than one st george 3 all together, well 3 that i have found, but the one you was on about is not the patron saint of england. what gave me a reason to check up on was a small error you made. the one you are on about came from that region before turkey was formed.
the one that is a patron saint of england was indeed a muslim an early one, not long after muslim prophet died in 632 ad.
st george and the dragon. the dragon part is the pagan forces coming in from western europe, coming in to finish off what was left of the western roman empire. but only to be stop by a muslim force.
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ex sch worker says...
4:50pm Tue 2 Feb 10