Denham: Labour got numbers wrong on EU migrants (From Daily Echo)
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Southampton MP John Denham admits Labour got the numbers wrong on EU migrants
10:28am Friday 22nd June 2012 in Southampton
john Denham: Labour got numbers wrong on EU migrants
Southampton MP John Denham today admitted the Government got its estimates wrong on the number of migrants who came to UK when eastern European countries joined the EU.
Mr Denham said Southampton alone received as many migrants from eastern Europe in 2005 as the Government thought would come to the whole country.
Speaking as Labour today called for a change in the rules on migrant workers, the Southampton Itchen MP said: "It became clear that the estimates that we had relied on were vastly wrong. We expected 15,000 migrants and 15,000 came to Southampton."
The former home office minister said while country had benefited "economically, culturally and socially" from migration he acknowledged: "There was an impact on wages and public services that people were concerned about.”
Southampton was estimated to have as many as 25,000 eastern European migrants.
Mr Denham said there was still a "debate still to be had" about overall numbers.
Labour leader Ed Miliband today admitted the party allowed too many Eastern European immigrants into country by lifting controls too early.
Mr Denham, a former business and skills secretary, said a Labour administration would focus on better enforcement of the minimum wage, a crack down on recruitment agencies who only supplied workers from particular countries, and would look at the types of jobs taken predominantly by foreign workers.
He said there needed to be “a level playing field”.
Ed Miliband promised new measures to prevent British people being ''locked out'' of jobs by foreign workers, including forcing firms to declare if they employ high numbers of immigrants.
Overseas-only employment agencies would be banned and an early-warning system set up to highlight areas where locals are ''dominated'' by an influx of overseas labour under the proposals.
While there cannot be set quotas on home-grown workers, urgent action is required to identify where British jobseekers need better training to compete, the Labour leader said.
Demanding that job centres be told of all firms where more than one in four staff is from overseas would form part of the new system to provide Whitehall and town halls with vital information.
Mr Miliband hopes to shift the focus of the debate from border controls, and what he says are ineffective Government caps on arrivals, towards the impact on people's daily lives.
While restrictions on new arrivals, including caps on people from any new EU member state, are necessary, reforming the jobs market is just as important, he argued.
Stricter enforcement of minimum wage laws and doubling fines to £10,000 would also form part of an effort to stop firms using cheap foreign labour to undercut domestic jobseekers.
Mr Miliband distanced himself from the rhetoric of his predecessor Gordon Brown, saying: ''I am not going to promise 'British jobs for British workers'.
''But we need an economy which offers working people a fair crack of the whip. The problem we need to address is in those areas and sectors where local talent is locked out of opportunity.''
He said Labour had to change its approach to immigration and recognise ''the costs as well as the benefits''.
The last Labour government under Mr Brown became ''too disconnected from the concerns of working people'', he said.
''We too easily assumed those who worried about immigration were stuck in the past, unrealistic about how things could be different, even prejudiced,'' he said.
''But Britain was experiencing the largest peacetime migration in recent history, and people's concerns were genuine.
''Why didn't we listen more? At least by the end of our time in office, we were too dazzled by globalisation and too sanguine about its price.
''By focusing too much on globalisation and migration's impact on growth, we lost sight of who was benefiting from that growth - and the people who were being squeezed. And, to those who lost out, Labour was too quick to say 'Like it or lump it'.''
Comments(38)
bigfella777
says...
11:17am Fri 22 Jun 12
I love the Polish,best thing ever happened to Southampton,lovely people.
The Salv
says...
11:41am Fri 22 Jun 12
Yes we already know this, and then you get the lefty liberal brigade quoting these wrong figures to you as part of their arguement. Very convenient.
Paramjit Bahia
says...
1:09pm Fri 22 Jun 12
When will Denham and the rest of NuLabourites stop making confessions on various issues virtually everyday?
Why can't they simply confess all in one go:
That they they made the nation virtually bankrupt made bankers rich, served their own interests vervwell but betrayed virtually every good 'Labour Value' and behaved worse than even Maggie Thatcher, so should never ever be trusted.
Why can't they simply confess all in one go:
That they they made the nation virtually bankrupt made bankers rich, served their own interests vervwell but betrayed virtually every good 'Labour Value' and behaved worse than even Maggie Thatcher, so should never ever be trusted.
Murray mint
says...
1:10pm Fri 22 Jun 12
I have lived all over the world for the last 20 odd years, I made a decision last year to put some roots back down in my home town, the fact that Southampton is now such a multicultural society is good for everybody, especially the economy, just as it is in just about every major city in the world. Open your eyes!! A few bad pennies do not make a pound, I have met my fair share of " white trash" on my travells but they are always outnumbered by genuinely good people. Before you label me a Liberal ponce do realize that life experience is so much better than
prejudice.
prejudice.
ohec
says...
1:51pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Murray mint wrote:I wouldn't disagree with you my argument is the number that have been allowed in, which is the root cause of all of the problems in this country, because of the gross overpopulation just about every service is under strain from housing the NHS and employment / education the list is endless even the police service since the eastern europeans arrived. As a nation we have always accepted immigrants and by and large they have integrated well but unfortunately we have made several errors firstly by the sheer number that we let in and the fact that we have bent over backwards to accommodate them to the detriment of our own, every piece of official paperwork printed in every language under the sun and then we wonder why they don't speak English. That term preference will be given to ethnic minorities when applying for jobs. All done in the mistaken belief that it will harmonise integration when to a large extent it has done the opposite we are no longer allowed to say what we may or may-not think and as an example if two men have a fight thats fine but if one of those men is of an ethnic minority it immediately become a race crime with much harsher penalties. So in truth the majority of us are racist not because of colour or creed or religion but simply by the fact that our country has been trashed by the failure of successive governments to control immigration at a reasonable level.
I have lived all over the world for the last 20 odd years, I made a decision last year to put some roots back down in my home town, the fact that Southampton is now such a multicultural society is good for everybody, especially the economy, just as it is in just about every major city in the world. Open your eyes!! A few bad pennies do not make a pound, I have met my fair share of " white trash" on my travells but they are always outnumbered by genuinely good people. Before you label me a Liberal ponce do realize that life experience is so much better than
prejudice.
SOULJACKER
says...
2:02pm Fri 22 Jun 12
John Denham's bunch got it wrong....Well where do you park your squad car dick Tracy???
We all said that the numbers should have been "capped" when when B"liar" was in power & they just said it was good for the economy....most of them send their money back home to have houses built....good for what economy...Polands?
Bevois valley has streets filled with empty "Tyskie" beer cans & Hair dressers & nail bars too numerous to mention, we don't need anymore Eastern European convenience stores that just serve their own community & nobody else :D
(I can buy cabbage related products in Aldi's now)
My kids school is full of Eastern European kids now to the point where the English kids are way out numbered, the parents are all pregnant when they get off the Ryanair flight at Hurn airport & as for their driving skills they are dreadful.......just saying, freedom of speech an all :P
The ones I know (who aren't bad people incidentally)...all come over here for the benefits ie: free schooling, health care etc....but they don't stop whining on about how horrible it is....MAKE YOUR MIND UP or go somewhere nicer (uhmmm, where else will you get free Schooling, healthcare etc.........:P
We all said that the numbers should have been "capped" when when B"liar" was in power & they just said it was good for the economy....most of them send their money back home to have houses built....good for what economy...Polands?
Bevois valley has streets filled with empty "Tyskie" beer cans & Hair dressers & nail bars too numerous to mention, we don't need anymore Eastern European convenience stores that just serve their own community & nobody else :D
(I can buy cabbage related products in Aldi's now)
My kids school is full of Eastern European kids now to the point where the English kids are way out numbered, the parents are all pregnant when they get off the Ryanair flight at Hurn airport & as for their driving skills they are dreadful.......just saying, freedom of speech an all :P
The ones I know (who aren't bad people incidentally)...all come over here for the benefits ie: free schooling, health care etc....but they don't stop whining on about how horrible it is....MAKE YOUR MIND UP or go somewhere nicer (uhmmm, where else will you get free Schooling, healthcare etc.........:P
SOULJACKER
says...
2:10pm Fri 22 Jun 12
ohec wrote:Very good post :D
Murray mint wrote:I wouldn't disagree with you my argument is the number that have been allowed in, which is the root cause of all of the problems in this country, because of the gross overpopulation just about every service is under strain from housing the NHS and employment / education the list is endless even the police service since the eastern europeans arrived. As a nation we have always accepted immigrants and by and large they have integrated well but unfortunately we have made several errors firstly by the sheer number that we let in and the fact that we have bent over backwards to accommodate them to the detriment of our own, every piece of official paperwork printed in every language under the sun and then we wonder why they don't speak English. That term preference will be given to ethnic minorities when applying for jobs. All done in the mistaken belief that it will harmonise integration when to a large extent it has done the opposite we are no longer allowed to say what we may or may-not think and as an example if two men have a fight thats fine but if one of those men is of an ethnic minority it immediately become a race crime with much harsher penalties. So in truth the majority of us are racist not because of colour or creed or religion but simply by the fact that our country has been trashed by the failure of successive governments to control immigration at a reasonable level.
I have lived all over the world for the last 20 odd years, I made a decision last year to put some roots back down in my home town, the fact that Southampton is now such a multicultural society is good for everybody, especially the economy, just as it is in just about every major city in the world. Open your eyes!! A few bad pennies do not make a pound, I have met my fair share of " white trash" on my travells but they are always outnumbered by genuinely good people. Before you label me a Liberal ponce do realize that life experience is so much better than
prejudice.
sarfhamton
says...
2:46pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Southampton has been home to Polish people since the 2nd world war, what is the fuss?
I grew up with decendants of poles and this wave will be intergrated within a generation.
I ran a care agency in Soton, without the Poles and others then the elderly and disabled would not have been cared for as the english born people didnt want to do that sort of work.
I grew up with decendants of poles and this wave will be intergrated within a generation.
I ran a care agency in Soton, without the Poles and others then the elderly and disabled would not have been cared for as the english born people didnt want to do that sort of work.
Murray mint
says...
3:05pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:Yes and thank you for being so polite. It is disagreement or contrasting opinions and dare I say opportunities that make the UK the most open Democacy in the world. Therein, I rest my case.
John Denham's bunch got it wrong....Well where do you park your squad car dick Tracy???
We all said that the numbers should have been "capped" when when B"liar" was in power & they just said it was good for the economy....most of them send their money back home to have houses built....good for what economy...Polands?
Bevois valley has streets filled with empty "Tyskie" beer cans & Hair dressers & nail bars too numerous to mention, we don't need anymore Eastern European convenience stores that just serve their own community & nobody else :D
(I can buy cabbage related products in Aldi's now)
My kids school is full of Eastern European kids now to the point where the English kids are way out numbered, the parents are all pregnant when they get off the Ryanair flight at Hurn airport & as for their driving skills they are dreadful.......just saying, freedom of speech an all :P
The ones I know (who aren't bad people incidentally)...all come over here for the benefits ie: free schooling, health care etc....but they don't stop whining on about how horrible it is....MAKE YOUR MIND UP or go somewhere nicer (uhmmm, where else will you get free Schooling, healthcare etc.........:P
Murray mint
says...
3:11pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Yes and thank you for being so polite. It is disagreement or contrasting opinions and dare I say opportunities for all...irrespective of race, breed, colour or religious persuasion that make the UK the most open Democacy in the world. Something I am sooooo proud of!
Murray mint
says...
3:14pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Funny goings on with this site there are!
Murray mint
says...
3:26pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Funny goings on with this site there are!
Anyway, I am now sat in a small restraunt in Seoul, to my left a bunch of locals having a great time, to my right a group of young proffessional Indians, our table is a mix of Europeans, Americans and South Africans, this is repeated everywhere all over the world, my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different. Look at the big picture, learn to develop our society and in particular our City to make this an all win opportunity rather than look inward and call it mass immigration.
Anyway, I am now sat in a small restraunt in Seoul, to my left a bunch of locals having a great time, to my right a group of young proffessional Indians, our table is a mix of Europeans, Americans and South Africans, this is repeated everywhere all over the world, my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different. Look at the big picture, learn to develop our society and in particular our City to make this an all win opportunity rather than look inward and call it mass immigration.
aldermoorboy
says...
3:48pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Labour's biggest mistake was to spend more than we earned.
We and our children will suffer for decades because of this.
Never let Labour back in power.
We and our children will suffer for decades because of this.
Never let Labour back in power.
SOULJACKER
says...
3:50pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Murray mint wrote:Politeness is my middle name dontcha know...
SOULJACKER wrote:Yes and thank you for being so polite. It is disagreement or contrasting opinions and dare I say opportunities that make the UK the most open Democacy in the world. Therein, I rest my case.
John Denham's bunch got it wrong....Well where do you park your squad car dick Tracy???
We all said that the numbers should have been "capped" when when B"liar" was in power & they just said it was good for the economy....most of them send their money back home to have houses built....good for what economy...Polands?
Bevois valley has streets filled with empty "Tyskie" beer cans & Hair dressers & nail bars too numerous to mention, we don't need anymore Eastern European convenience stores that just serve their own community & nobody else :D
(I can buy cabbage related products in Aldi's now)
My kids school is full of Eastern European kids now to the point where the English kids are way out numbered, the parents are all pregnant when they get off the Ryanair flight at Hurn airport & as for their driving skills they are dreadful.......just saying, freedom of speech an all :P
The ones I know (who aren't bad people incidentally)...all come over here for the benefits ie: free schooling, health care etc....but they don't stop whining on about how horrible it is....MAKE YOUR MIND UP or go somewhere nicer (uhmmm, where else will you get free Schooling, healthcare etc.........:P
I don't think I came across too impolite though, If I did then you must excuse me, but living in the Immigrant central (Bevois Valley), it is all around me & I am getting a little sick of the mess that has been created over the past 10 years by ghettos that are inhabited by the people that have chosen to come here!
Take a walk down Cranbury Ave, or anywhere in "the Jungle" Derby road etc.....& see what I mean.
Even when the "Prozzy's" were down there it wasn't as bad as it has become......furnitur
e in the street, needles & Johnny bags in the street, dog cr@p in the street & I could go on but am starting to vent & I don't wanna do that :D
ohec
says...
4:12pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Murray mint wrote:You have answered your own question i quote (my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different) Simply because it is a small city in a small country that is bursting at the seams, with a great many just here to abuse the system and send money home often for children that have never even seen our country. We need to take control of our own country and in order to do that we need to completely dissociate ourselves from the E.U. and run the country ourselves as we have done for many years and that is the only chance we have of ever restoring the country to anything resembling Great Britain.
Funny goings on with this site there are!
Anyway, I am now sat in a small restraunt in Seoul, to my left a bunch of locals having a great time, to my right a group of young proffessional Indians, our table is a mix of Europeans, Americans and South Africans, this is repeated everywhere all over the world, my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different. Look at the big picture, learn to develop our society and in particular our City to make this an all win opportunity rather than look inward and call it mass immigration.
SOULJACKER
says...
4:21pm Fri 22 Jun 12
ohec wrote:OH YEAH,
Murray mint wrote:You have answered your own question i quote (my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different) Simply because it is a small city in a small country that is bursting at the seams, with a great many just here to abuse the system and send money home often for children that have never even seen our country. We need to take control of our own country and in order to do that we need to completely dissociate ourselves from the E.U. and run the country ourselves as we have done for many years and that is the only chance we have of ever restoring the country to anything resembling Great Britain.
Funny goings on with this site there are!
Anyway, I am now sat in a small restraunt in Seoul, to my left a bunch of locals having a great time, to my right a group of young proffessional Indians, our table is a mix of Europeans, Americans and South Africans, this is repeated everywhere all over the world, my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different. Look at the big picture, learn to develop our society and in particular our City to make this an all win opportunity rather than look inward and call it mass immigration.
I couldn't agree with you more ohec,
I fear that the rot has set in too deep now......but what a state we are in now due to Blair I think :(
IronLady2010
says...
5:36pm Fri 22 Jun 12
ohec wrote:I have no problem with anyone coming to our country legally. What I do object to is that they can claim benefits for children living in Poland (as an example) that have never set foot on our soil.
Murray mint wrote:You have answered your own question i quote (my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different) Simply because it is a small city in a small country that is bursting at the seams, with a great many just here to abuse the system and send money home often for children that have never even seen our country. We need to take control of our own country and in order to do that we need to completely dissociate ourselves from the E.U. and run the country ourselves as we have done for many years and that is the only chance we have of ever restoring the country to anything resembling Great Britain.
Funny goings on with this site there are!
Anyway, I am now sat in a small restraunt in Seoul, to my left a bunch of locals having a great time, to my right a group of young proffessional Indians, our table is a mix of Europeans, Americans and South Africans, this is repeated everywhere all over the world, my point is why should a relatively small city in England be any different. Look at the big picture, learn to develop our society and in particular our City to make this an all win opportunity rather than look inward and call it mass immigration.
We can't blame the people, it's the system that is morally wrong!
SOULJACKER
says...
5:56pm Fri 22 Jun 12
sarfhamton wrote:The Poles that flew with our pilots in WWII & settled here are a different breed of people & did us a great service in a bad time!
Southampton has been home to Polish people since the 2nd world war, what is the fuss?
I grew up with decendants of poles and this wave will be intergrated within a generation.
I ran a care agency in Soton, without the Poles and others then the elderly and disabled would not have been cared for as the english born people didnt want to do that sort of work.
The new breed of Pole are "Tyskie" drinking, mustache wearing, early 90's fashion wearing drunks who know how to play our system!
Get real, am I the only one that can see this??
A whole bunch of them (about 10) sit over the road from me & drink their beer all day long & then deposit the cans in the same place & the pile is huge now.....check the parks in town.....we ended up getting the useless drunks who when they get liver disease will be taking up the hospital beds ...think about it!!!!
I have Polish mates who say that they only came here because of the benefit system......England is a laughing stock in Europe now because of no border control or screening of immigrants.
Blair said that we can have the cream of the crop where the Eastern Europeans were concerned.....sorry Tony we ended up with the dross...another lie by Labour :(
Anyone of you that can't see what has happened here...take your rose coloured spectacles off!
Sheeeeesh (Shakes head)
IronLady2010
says...
6:03pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:You (or I) cannot claim all Polish are here for a ride.
sarfhamton wrote:The Poles that flew with our pilots in WWII & settled here are a different breed of people & did us a great service in a bad time!
Southampton has been home to Polish people since the 2nd world war, what is the fuss?
I grew up with decendants of poles and this wave will be intergrated within a generation.
I ran a care agency in Soton, without the Poles and others then the elderly and disabled would not have been cared for as the english born people didnt want to do that sort of work.
The new breed of Pole are "Tyskie" drinking, mustache wearing, early 90's fashion wearing drunks who know how to play our system!
Get real, am I the only one that can see this??
A whole bunch of them (about 10) sit over the road from me & drink their beer all day long & then deposit the cans in the same place & the pile is huge now.....check the parks in town.....we ended up getting the useless drunks who when they get liver disease will be taking up the hospital beds ...think about it!!!!
I have Polish mates who say that they only came here because of the benefit system......England is a laughing stock in Europe now because of no border control or screening of immigrants.
Blair said that we can have the cream of the crop where the Eastern Europeans were concerned.....sorry Tony we ended up with the dross...another lie by Labour :(
Anyone of you that can't see what has happened here...take your rose coloured spectacles off!
Sheeeeesh (Shakes head)
Many work very hard unlike some of our own who hang around the job centre with their Staffies each day waiting for a handout.
Live and let live, we can't blame Polish people to take advantage of a system that allows it.
SOULJACKER
says...
6:39pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
IronLady2010
says...
6:54pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Fatty x Ford Worker
says...
7:07pm Fri 22 Jun 12
To late the back door been left open!
SOULJACKER
says...
8:38pm Fri 22 Jun 12
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
SOULJACKER
says...
8:40pm Fri 22 Jun 12
Fatty x Ford Worker wrote:Hell yeah, it has been... :(
To late the back door been left open!
SOULJACKER
says...
8:50pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:Oh Lawdy Child (holds hand up to mouth), maybe my spelling has had one too many, sorry :D
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
IronLady2010
says...
8:51pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
SOULJACKER
says...
9:05pm Fri 22 Jun 12
IronLady2010 wrote:Iron lady, I usually go along with what you say & indeed you talk alot of sense, but why the hell should I pick up their cr@p...no way........this country is full of people who say no...don't get involved & if you do then you are a trouble maker:(
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
For goodness sake your comment just says that I should accept it....no way!
This has made real annoyed now....if we accept it then it becomes accepted :(
SOULJACKER
says...
9:10pm Fri 22 Jun 12
IronLady2010 wrote:For Gods sake.....people come round & see the sh1t & say "I don't wanna live round here"...I can't sell my house...fior goodness sake, get real :D
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
IronLady2010
says...
10:04pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:Are you dealing with the issues? Get your MP involved if it's as bad as you describe.
IronLady2010 wrote:For Gods sake.....people come round & see the sh1t & say "I don't wanna live round here"...I can't sell my house...fior goodness sake, get real :D
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
Guess we're lucky as we only have one yob in our street who brings home numerous other yobs every weekend. But he get's told to shut up and to be fair he listens and goes indoors.
Seriously though, you shouldn't have to live with abuse from others, wether they be Polish or British.
I'd sort them out myself if they were doing similar in my street.
SOULJACKER
says...
10:21pm Fri 22 Jun 12
IronLady2010 wrote:Arghhhhh, Ironlady you really annoy me cause you talk so much sense some of the time, but some times you get right on my nerves like hell :D
SOULJACKER wrote:Are you dealing with the issues? Get your MP involved if it's as bad as you describe.
IronLady2010 wrote:For Gods sake.....people come round & see the sh1t & say "I don't wanna live round here"...I can't sell my house...fior goodness sake, get real :D
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
Guess we're lucky as we only have one yob in our street who brings home numerous other yobs every weekend. But he get's told to shut up and to be fair he listens and goes indoors.
Seriously though, you shouldn't have to live with abuse from others, wether they be Polish or British.
I'd sort them out myself if they were doing similar in my street.
I have contacted the Police...they are overstretched & not really interested in littering......
I hate to sound like a misery like I do but they are the facts...period :(
My way round it is to go & make them sort the sh1t out when they do it, but I get told "not to get involved" cause I will be deemed a trouble maker, but like I say if you accept it...it becomes accepted & I ain't having that no way no how:D
GET INVOLVED PEOPLE...DON'T TAKE IT LYING DOWN :)
SOULJACKER
says...
10:21pm Fri 22 Jun 12
IronLady2010 wrote:Arghhhhh, Ironlady you really annoy me cause you talk so much sense some of the time, but some times you get right on my nerves like hell :D
SOULJACKER wrote:Are you dealing with the issues? Get your MP involved if it's as bad as you describe.
IronLady2010 wrote:For Gods sake.....people come round & see the sh1t & say "I don't wanna live round here"...I can't sell my house...fior goodness sake, get real :D
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
Guess we're lucky as we only have one yob in our street who brings home numerous other yobs every weekend. But he get's told to shut up and to be fair he listens and goes indoors.
Seriously though, you shouldn't have to live with abuse from others, wether they be Polish or British.
I'd sort them out myself if they were doing similar in my street.
I have contacted the Police...they are overstretched & not really interested in littering......
I hate to sound like a misery like I do but they are the facts...period :(
My way round it is to go & make them sort the sh1t out when they do it, but I get told "not to get involved" cause I will be deemed a trouble maker, but like I say if you accept it...it becomes accepted & I ain't having that no way no how:D
GET INVOLVED PEOPLE...DON'T TAKE IT LYING DOWN :)
IronLady2010
says...
10:41pm Fri 22 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:Your first problem is that you are wasting Police time. The Council should be your best place to address your issues.
IronLady2010 wrote:Arghhhhh, Ironlady you really annoy me cause you talk so much sense some of the time, but some times you get right on my nerves like hell :D
SOULJACKER wrote:Are you dealing with the issues? Get your MP involved if it's as bad as you describe.
IronLady2010 wrote:For Gods sake.....people come round & see the sh1t & say "I don't wanna live round here"...I can't sell my house...fior goodness sake, get real :D
SOULJACKER wrote:7 of 'them'? Go pick the beer cans up if they're bothering you.
IronLady2010 wrote:Dammit, I have just had 7 of them that have left beer cans all over our road & now I am pi$$ed as hell!
SOULJACKER wrote:You are in a way correct. But, if benefits are available, people take them.
Ironlady, you are right as ever :D
But round my way....though there are a whole bunch of Staffie owning, Burberry wearing knuckle heads....I can only go on what I see...fact!!
I don't know where you live but Portswood, City centre & Shirley are now overrun with them....Like I said before, I wouldn't tar them all with the same brush cause I have mates that are Polskys, but even they said that they only come over for the benefit system....that speaks volumes in my book (Jus cause it's there doesn't mean to say you have to abuse it)!
Don't you long for the days of having clean streets, no Police & Ambulances going by every two minutes & I "AIN'T" saying that this is all Polish that do this, but maybe modern times just suck, hell I don't know anymore :D
We had a once nice city & now it is just a Sh1t hole now I am afraid.
My fear was that I was gonna sound racist & maybe I do but that really ain't so......I just want people who aren't from our country to stop making a hell hole out of it & stopping screwing our system over!
Now I really angry & starting to vent & I really didn't wanna do that :D
Even the rich take benefits. Our friends from overseas are not acting illegally by taking benefits.
If the Tax man wrote to me tomorrow and said, we're going to give you £1000 I would take it, as you probably would.
It's not the people we should blame, but the system.
Labour opened the gates, yet no-one has ever closed them and Labour are no longer in power.
Nobody will convince me that these all wonderful people lovely people cause they ain't!!
I go to stop these guys doing this sh1t & I get told not get involved & I cause trouble....no way & I ain't putting up with it!
My neighbours had friends round tonight from Plymouth & they were soooo intimidated...It ain't right & I ain't taking it!
Sorry to sound racist, but if you don't like it then ...too bad...sorry :P
Is someone insisting and forcing you to live where you are?
I visit Derby road often to go to International foods, never seen any issues on my visits.
Guess we're lucky as we only have one yob in our street who brings home numerous other yobs every weekend. But he get's told to shut up and to be fair he listens and goes indoors.
Seriously though, you shouldn't have to live with abuse from others, wether they be Polish or British.
I'd sort them out myself if they were doing similar in my street.
I have contacted the Police...they are overstretched & not really interested in littering......
I hate to sound like a misery like I do but they are the facts...period :(
My way round it is to go & make them sort the sh1t out when they do it, but I get told "not to get involved" cause I will be deemed a trouble maker, but like I say if you accept it...it becomes accepted & I ain't having that no way no how:D
GET INVOLVED PEOPLE...DON'T TAKE IT LYING DOWN :)
To call the Police for some group throwing beer cans, is a waste of yours and Police time.
If your problem is genuine, the Council can and WILL place CCTV vans in your area, but unless you complain, they'll do nothing.
That is when they aren't on strike, which I believe they aren't right now?
ohec
says...
9:15am Sat 23 Jun 12
The problem is the whole of the U.K is a dustbin because we have allowed it to become one, with the attitude that its somebody else's job to clear up. You can travel the world but there are not many places as filthy as the U.K. and thats not because of enforcement but by upbringing and pride it is a real pleasure to go to other countries and see how clean they are, and so depressing to come back to the U.K
Inform Al
says...
11:29am Sat 23 Jun 12
I find it encouraging that we finally have politicians that can admit they got it wrong, I believe we have not had politicians that can get it mainly right since Atlee and Churchill. Yes Brown got it very wrong, especially over the EU and immigration and I did say it would be impossible for us to ever get a worse PM. Shows hows much I know as C'moron proved me wrong very quickly. Hopefully this is a move towards politicians in one party once again listening to the people they serve instead of the current situation where only rich party donors are looked after.
Murray mint
says...
11:42am Sat 23 Jun 12
A friend sent me a mail today talking about Asia taking over as the worlds leading region, having lived there for many years it is obvious why, governments don't stand for any ****, they don't pamper to the nimbys, if it's needed then it's done, end of, if you don't like it, tough!. Kind of how the west developed?
Adamus
says...
9:14pm Sat 23 Jun 12
SOULJACKER wrote:You are just a total ignorant :)
John Denham's bunch got it wrong....Well where do you park your squad car dick Tracy???
We all said that the numbers should have been "capped" when when B"liar" was in power & they just said it was good for the economy....most of them send their money back home to have houses built....good for what economy...Polands?
Bevois valley has streets filled with empty "Tyskie" beer cans & Hair dressers & nail bars too numerous to mention, we don't need anymore Eastern European convenience stores that just serve their own community & nobody else :D
(I can buy cabbage related products in Aldi's now)
My kids school is full of Eastern European kids now to the point where the English kids are way out numbered, the parents are all pregnant when they get off the Ryanair flight at Hurn airport & as for their driving skills they are dreadful.......just saying, freedom of speech an all :P
The ones I know (who aren't bad people incidentally)...all come over here for the benefits ie: free schooling, health care etc....but they don't stop whining on about how horrible it is....MAKE YOUR MIND UP or go somewhere nicer (uhmmm, where else will you get free Schooling, healthcare etc.........:P
Schools in Poland are free
health care is free.
Typical English family 1 parent + minimum 3 kids=claiming benefits :)
Most of the Polish people i know work full time and they can not claim benefits anyway but they pay tax so what is your problem?
How many English hard working peoples is buying properties in Spain and no one have problem about it good for what economy...Spain ?
I agree all scumbags criminals etc should be send back home and not allowed to come here wherever they are from
SOULJACKER
says...
8:19pm Tue 26 Jun 12
Ignorant, yep.....that's me, but at least I can spell :P
If the school & healthcare is free over there then why are they all flocking to Southampton.....just to open up hairdressers & stores in Shirley high street ????
What about the drunks that sit over the road from me with their big mustaches & Tyskie lager dumped in the bushes & the fact that they are out there all the dayam day!
Why is it that where the Polish youth hang out near my kids school there always seems to be Sh1t in the bins broken polish beer bottles in the playgrounds to say the least.....
When the English go to Spain to settle, they don't do that stuff....maybe the young holiday makers do, but at least they clear off home again :P
If the school & healthcare is free over there then why are they all flocking to Southampton.....just to open up hairdressers & stores in Shirley high street ????
What about the drunks that sit over the road from me with their big mustaches & Tyskie lager dumped in the bushes & the fact that they are out there all the dayam day!
Why is it that where the Polish youth hang out near my kids school there always seems to be Sh1t in the bins broken polish beer bottles in the playgrounds to say the least.....
When the English go to Spain to settle, they don't do that stuff....maybe the young holiday makers do, but at least they clear off home again :P
George4th says...
11:10am Fri 22 Jun 12
This has to be the understatement of the year!!
>
They got it completely wrong!!!!!