Spy cameras on Town Quay 'hurting businesses'

4:40pm Thursday 5th July 2012 in Southampton Photograph of the Author By Tara Russell, News Reporter

Ian Parker at the car park on Town Quay Ian Parker at the car park on Town Quay

AN INDEPENDENT shop owner has told how he is losing his customers – because spy cameras are hitting motorists with hefty fines.

Ian Parker, who owns coffee shop Monsieur Hulot at Town Quay , said he fears for the future of his family business due to “scandalous” techniques used by a Big Brother-style parking firm, as revealed by the Daily Echo.

The business owner said dozens of his regular customers have been fined since the new cameras were installed.

Grandad-of-two Mr Parker, celebrating the cafe’s 20th anniversary this year, now parks in a different city centre car park and walks to his shop.

He said: “All I can say is our business is suffering, suffering, suffering.

“This is a complete farce because people just have no idea they are on camera and they don’t know they can be fined without even parking up, so it is completely unfair.

“It is absolutely scandalous. This has driven all my customers away.”

Parking Eye, which run the site, use cameras to photograph cars the second they enter the area and again when they leave.

This data is compared to payments made at the pay and display machines where motorists key in their registration numbers.

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Everyone entering and leaving the privately-owned area is logged via the technology – which means even motorists dropping people off can fall victim to the fines.

If fines are paid within a fortnight it costs £75 but beyond this period it costs £110 plus a £40 administration charge as well as charges to use cards.

Motorists have been contacting the Daily Echo to complain about the scheme.

Chris Ryan, who has been caught out by the cameras, urged people to beware because he was fined when he drove on to the site without using a bay.

If you get a charge

The British Parking Association say people should never ignore fines from car park operators because those who do not pay, risk further action by debt collectors or a county court judgement.

He said: “I know many pensioners go to the spot and they have a sandwich and a coffee to watch the ships . There is nothing obvious saying if you stay longer than 15 minutes you will be fined a large sum.”

Town Quay is owned by Associated British Ports (ABP) which contracts out to Parking Eye to run the site.

Parking Eye insists there are signs displayed in the car park and there is a “grace” period – as set by the British Parking Association – in place for people to leave the car park in enough time.

A spokesman for ABP said: “In recent years ABP has invested over £3m in upgrading Town Quay. This has enabled us to make significant improvements to the marina, offices and layout of the site.

“We continue to work with all the users of Town Quay and we believe the majority of our tenants are happy with the new system and improvements that have been made.”

What does the British Parking Association say?

PARKING Eye is a member of the British Parking Association, which represents the entire parking and traffic management sector including private car park operators.

Membership means that a company has the ability to access drivers’ details registered with the DVLA.

Without this membership, the companies would not know who committed an offence, or where to send fines.

But to be a member everyone must adhere to the code of conduct, which states that you may only issue parking tickets after the five minute ‘grace’ period has run out on vehicles that have paid for parking and visibly display a payment ticket.

The organisation said members of the public who have complaints should contact them with the details.

They have the power to investigate and withdraw membership.

Comments(34)

freemantlegirl2 says...
4:48pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Bloody ridiculous! you can't 'fine' or issue penalities to people without warning them by signage! as for fining people who are dropping off I'm sure if the fine wasn't paid there is nothing they can do about it!

ABP need to think again...

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sotonbusdriver says...
5:23pm Thu 5 Jul 12

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Bloody ridiculous! you can't 'fine' or issue penalities to people without warning them by signage! as for fining people who are dropping off I'm sure if the fine wasn't paid there is nothing they can do about it!

ABP need to think again...
Parking Eye insists there are signs displayed in the car park and there is a “grace” period – as set by the British Parking Association – in place for people to leave the car park in enough time.

The only trouble with this so called signage is you have to read it.......
For those who are visiting to pick up from the ferries and wait in their cars, may not realise they only have 15 mins max, and if the JET from IOW or the 1 from Hythe is delayed, they leave when picked up, not knowing they have exceeded the limit.....

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crabbit says...
5:40pm Thu 5 Jul 12

I pulled up to take a couple of pictures of the sunset, didn't even get out of the car .... cost me £75 - flippin scandalous. They wouldn't entertain any common sense and I had to pay it.

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ALDEBARAN says...
6:06pm Thu 5 Jul 12

5 grace ? They are having a laugh! It takes longer than that from entry to exit. 15 minutes grace would be acceptable. Where is the sense ?

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business-guru says...
6:11pm Thu 5 Jul 12

don't pay these d1ckheads... let them send their letters.... ignore them , put them in the bin... they have no legal basis... there is no contract , they can not prove you were the driver etc etc etc ignore them...

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Boatman says...
6:32pm Thu 5 Jul 12

From British Parking Association:-
"Membership means that a company has the ability to access drivers’ details registered with the DVLA. "

I don't think so - only the name and address of the registered keeper. Not necessarily the same thing.

I am not sure that the best advice is to ignore the letters. If, by any chance, the case came to court are you prepared to perjure yourself? I would write back and say that you acknowledge no debt to them and will vigorously defend any action for recovery. That such action may lead to a counterclaim.

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Condor Man says...
6:35pm Thu 5 Jul 12

what people have to remember is that is private land and as a result the owners are within their rights to charge for access. If in doubt use a council car park like the one at Mayflower Park (but remember to leave before they close the gate)

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Northamboy says...
6:40pm Thu 5 Jul 12

The more that reads the following forum the better.......

http://forums.moneys
avingexpert.com/foru
mdisplay.php?f=163

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Snowdin says...
6:43pm Thu 5 Jul 12

The Echo continues to perpetuate a myth. These are not fines, they are invoices. I suggest the journalist writes a précis of the very clear information on moneysavingexpert.co
m so that people are fully aware of their legal rights instead of an "ain't it awful" story.

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Family Man says...
6:44pm Thu 5 Jul 12

On the one hand it is not unreasonable for an owner of land to charge others for using it, and on the other hand those charges should be open, honest and reasonable. The argument from drivers is that thay are both unreasonable and not truly open. The obvious resolution is for the car park to have barriers so that nobody is under the slightest illusion about the conditions of use, and that there is a charge and how much. The problem is I believe that motorists, and I am one, see no entry or exit restrictions and enter without any further consideration. So from that point of view both parties have to accept some degree of blame. Having said that, all the motorist has to do is buy a ticket. It would however not be reasonable if, knowing that at least some cars enter to pick up or drop off, to set either an unreasonable time limit (which needs to take into account that these are ferries that cross an often unpredictable piece of water that can cause schedules to go completely awry) or to make a minimum charge that is so high as to be prohibitive. ABP need to engage Parking Eye to make more reasonable charges or make the parking conditions more open and reasonable. But then we've seen all this before under the old clamping regimes where the companies engaged can do more or less what they like.

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Ewan Hoosami says...
6:44pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Any demands for money by these or any other weasels are simply speculative invoices, nothing more. This has already been tested in court and the judge ruled that the the charge was an unfair penalty and was unenforceable. Search for 'excel parking services vs hetherington-jakeman
' for full details. Any demands for money by private companies, dressed up as penalty charge notices, should be put in the bin along with all your other junk mail.

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ALDEBARAN says...
7:10pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Consumer Action Group site makes informative reading.

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magpiesaint says...
7:14pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Also, before this company took over it used to be free to park after 6pm. Now it is a pay 24hours a day, 7 days a week car park. Who authorised the change of use? Do SCC not want anyone to use the city?

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X Old Bill says...
7:30pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Dear Echo:

Please stay behind after school and write out 100 times: ' These are NOT fines, they are requests for payment for use of land'.

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Family Man says...
7:45pm Thu 5 Jul 12

magpiesaint wrote:
Also, before this company took over it used to be free to park after 6pm. Now it is a pay 24hours a day, 7 days a week car park. Who authorised the change of use? Do SCC not want anyone to use the city?
A rhetorical question I presume. The primary value of the motorist to any pubic body is as a source of income. Whether through parking charges, parking fines, speed cameras, road tax, fuel taxes, tolls, or any other charge, he motorist is a captive audience, or more appropriately, a milch cow to be milked dry. So no, the SCC doesn't give a fig about having motorists use the city and the extent to which business is almost entirely dependent on both staff, customers and visitors travelling by car into he city rather using an entirely inadequate public transport system or presumably walking!

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IronLady2010 says...
7:46pm Thu 5 Jul 12

A can of hairspray and a tissue is all that's needed.

As soon as you come off the public highway use the hairspray to stick tissue over a number or two of your reg.

No issue!

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IronLady2010 says...
7:47pm Thu 5 Jul 12

IronLady2010 wrote:
A can of hairspray and a tissue is all that's needed.

As soon as you come off the public highway use the hairspray to stick tissue over a number or two of your reg.

No issue!
BUT remember to remove it before going back onto a public road!

I will not be held liable for any fines incurred LOL ;-)

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News Fanatic says...
7:56pm Thu 5 Jul 12

If I had been caught speeding I would be fined £60. I could possible have put life in danger. To be fined £75 for daring to stop my car in the wronmg place, putting no one to inconvenience or in danger is totally disproportionate. Yes, those who cause an obstruction, or do not pay the fee to park should be fined but not £75. It is a money-spinning racket.

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bazzeroz says...
8:01pm Thu 5 Jul 12

If it could be organized with another say, 50/60 local residents I wouldn't mind playing a silly game of in and out of their car park for a couple of hours one day. Anyone up for it? Should be fun with all the 'fines' we'll receive. They'll think all their Christmas's had come at once or their system was faulty. What a laugh.

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wossit says...
8:05pm Thu 5 Jul 12

It will be the death of town key, it will end up like ocean village !!!

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IronLady2010 says...
8:08pm Thu 5 Jul 12

wossit wrote:
It will be the death of town key, it will end up like ocean village !!!
Town Quay is hardly a lively place. Most people use the car park to watch the ships and ferries.

You have a Casino and a rough bar/restaurant and lots of offices?

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Dragonqueen says...
8:26pm Thu 5 Jul 12

I have a Dvla tax free car for hire to drive to town quay only £50 per day cheaper than parking there heehee only joking how would I get around,oh yes have a work car, also how do they know who's driving? Do they photograph the driver as well? I am up for the invasion of town quay just let me know the date, could take work car and my own.

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10 Minute Man says...
8:26pm Thu 5 Jul 12

M. Hulot is not a rough dive, its a nice little local business, but the owner is right to be concerned. I will not be going anywhere near town quay now.

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parkinginsider says...
8:43pm Thu 5 Jul 12

I suggest that everyone who has had a ticket from these guys to complain to BOTH the BPA and the DVLA. Their signs are in breach of the BPA code of practice namely section B6.1 - Your signs must make it clear what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for. All they say is that the car park in monitored by ANPR cameras. This is the same in every car park they cover nation wide, if they dont get sanctioned for that then it proves what everyone says about these organisations. Those who have paid for tickets, take them to court; you are guaranteed to win.

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business-guru says...
9:05pm Thu 5 Jul 12

Condor Man wrote:
what people have to remember is that is private land and as a result the owners are within their rights to charge for access. If in doubt use a council car park like the one at Mayflower Park (but remember to leave before they close the gate)
****. they are not "within their rights" and there is no legal basis if no clear contract exists.... why do you think 100% of those ignore these stupid demands never get to pay.... its bacause there is no legal basis to charge , its just a scam just like the letters from Nigeria !!!

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Georgem says...
9:53pm Thu 5 Jul 12

crabbit wrote:
I pulled up to take a couple of pictures of the sunset, didn't even get out of the car .... cost me £75 - flippin scandalous. They wouldn't entertain any common sense and I had to pay it.
How did you HAVE to pay it?

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southampton999 says...
10:04pm Thu 5 Jul 12

DO NOT PAY!!!! CHARGE THEM FOR WASTING YOUR TIME AND IF THEY KEEP THREATENING YOU REPORT THEM TO THE POLICE FOR HARRASSMENT!! NEVER EVER EVER TELL THE WHO WAS DRIVING THE CAR. YOU ARE UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION TO TELL THEM!

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snapperdownunder says...
11:55pm Thu 5 Jul 12

A 15 minute grace period......... surely long enough to drop someone off. It only takes 15 seconds max to get out of a car.
Know the place well.

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chunky_lover says...
12:28am Fri 6 Jul 12

whoever set this nonsense up should be lowered slowly into boiling oil. Or, as Clarkson said "shot in front of their families."

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dolomiteman says...
2:27am Fri 6 Jul 12

crabbit wrote:
I pulled up to take a couple of pictures of the sunset, didn't even get out of the car .... cost me £75 - flippin scandalous. They wouldn't entertain any common sense and I had to pay it.
NO you didn't. Have plenty of people have said and despite the Echo's inability to crasp the basics of law it is NOT a fine and no offence is commited. the only people that can fine you are the council and police.
It is a parking charge notice or in simple terms a request to pay, they can not legally peruse it and any letters sent by them have no legal standing despite them 'looking official'. they can not and will not take you to court or send in baliffs, they say this to scare people into paying up.

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thankfully not a PO postcode says...
7:35am Fri 6 Jul 12

rubbish I've driven there loads to look at ships submarines etc and never been fined the people that have must of been there a while ......... and also what business is there to ruin there's nothing there anymore !!!

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vag says...
8:50am Fri 6 Jul 12

southampton999 wrote:
DO NOT PAY!!!! CHARGE THEM FOR WASTING YOUR TIME AND IF THEY KEEP THREATENING YOU REPORT THEM TO THE POLICE FOR HARRASSMENT!! NEVER EVER EVER TELL THE WHO WAS DRIVING THE CAR. YOU ARE UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION TO TELL THEM!
This is correct. Legally speaking, all they have issued you with is a request for payment. They have no contract with the registered owner of the car, and the registered owner is under no obligation to divulge the identity of the driver at the time, to these people. If you just ignore the 'fine' they will eventually bugger off.

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townieboy says...
9:36am Fri 6 Jul 12

They can't enforce these fines so why are you all paying them ? Don't pay, don't answer any letters. Get on with your lives. Easy.

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crabbit says...
2:47pm Fri 6 Jul 12

Well silly me for falling for it then :-/

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