Winchester Cathedral needs to raise £19m

Daily Echo: Winchester Cathedral Winchester Cathedral

Winchester Cathedral is set to launch one of the biggest public appeals in Hampshire history.

The church needs to raise £19 million to pay for ambitious plans to raise the profile of its rich history and repair its fragile fabric.

The appeal will be launched at an evensong service at the church on September 23.

The Dean, the Very Rev James Atwell, urged church-goers to attend: “Now is or moment of destiny and it will require courage and commitment to rise to it. It will also require a conviction that it is worth straining the sinews on behalf of the worship and witness of the cathedral.”

On September 23 the dean will reveal how much needs to be raised and how much has already been secured or promised.

He is hopeful of a grant of £10 million from the Heritage Lottery Fund. An application is due to be made in spring 2013.

Annabelle Boyes, cathedral receiver general, said yesterday: “The cathedral is at the heart of the community of Hampshire. It is a very special building.”

The money will help pay for the restoration of leaky presbytery roof, wooden vaulting and surviving medieval stained glass windows; refurbishing the Education Centre; renewing the sound system, wiring and lighting, which alone will cost some £2 million.

The cathedral is hopeful of a £10million grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund.

The cathedral aims to launch three exhibitions, including unveiling the bones of Anglo-Saxon and early medieval kings kept in wooden chests for 1,000 years.

It is keen on undertaking a serious research project into the bones, which include Cnut and William Rufus, including possible DNA analysis.

Mrs Boyes said: “The cathedral was the first Royal mausoleum. In the 900s Winchester Cathedral was the equivalent of Westminster today.”

It also wants to improve the public display of its unique treasures, including the priceless medieval Winchester Bible.

The changes are expected to boost visitor numbers which currently stand at around 330,000 a year.

Cathedral officials confirmed in May that it received £475,000 from the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) that will help it draw up firm proposals.

The three major exhibitions proposed are:

• Kings and Scribes - the Birth of a Nation, on the bones of Anglo-Saxon and early medieval kings kept in mortuary chests;

• Displaying the 900-year-old Winchester Bible for the first time on the more accessible ground floor of the south transept;

• An architectural exhibition on the second floor of the south transept to show the evolution of the building.

The revamp of the south transept would be the first major changes for more than 20 years to how the treasures are presented.

The appeal will be the biggest the cathedral has launched since the £7million target launched in 1990 under former dean, Trevor Beeson.

The new appeal will be overseen by the Winchester Cathedral Trust under the chairmanship of the Lord Lieutenant Dame Mary Fagan.

Comments (44)

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5:44am Thu 6 Sep 12

stay local says...

How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power??
Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster.
how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion?
How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power?? Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster. how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion? stay local
  • Score: 0

7:25am Thu 6 Sep 12

hulla baloo says...

As I understand, the church is a very wealthy business/organisatio
n in its own right. Why arew they seeking a lottery grant?
As for donations, more brain washing by the church leaders into getting their flock to pay so their coffers keep rising.
As I understand, the church is a very wealthy business/organisatio n in its own right. Why arew they seeking a lottery grant? As for donations, more brain washing by the church leaders into getting their flock to pay so their coffers keep rising. hulla baloo
  • Score: 0

8:08am Thu 6 Sep 12

Higginz says...

Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions. Higginz
  • Score: 0

10:13am Thu 6 Sep 12

Shoong says...

They can do one.

An incredibly wealthy organisation sat on bundles of money and shares and they want donations. Nah.
They can do one. An incredibly wealthy organisation sat on bundles of money and shares and they want donations. Nah. Shoong
  • Score: 0

10:15am Thu 6 Sep 12

Of the Ilk says...

A beautiful building at should be preserved. Its use and meaning to many across the world is irrelevant. In this country we seem to want to preserve and protect everything as long as it is not Christian.
A beautiful building at should be preserved. Its use and meaning to many across the world is irrelevant. In this country we seem to want to preserve and protect everything as long as it is not Christian. Of the Ilk
  • Score: 0

10:31am Thu 6 Sep 12

southy says...

Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
[quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral. southy
  • Score: 0

10:39am Thu 6 Sep 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true. Shoong
  • Score: 0

10:43am Thu 6 Sep 12

southy says...

Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong southy
  • Score: 0

10:51am Thu 6 Sep 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world. Shoong
  • Score: 0

10:58am Thu 6 Sep 12

mtdiablo says...

As a history buff I'm a big fan of restoring these kind of historical monuments, even if it's using Lottery Grants.
As a history buff I'm a big fan of restoring these kind of historical monuments, even if it's using Lottery Grants. mtdiablo
  • Score: 0

11:07am Thu 6 Sep 12

Of the Ilk says...

Shoong wrote:
They can do one.

An incredibly wealthy organisation sat on bundles of money and shares and they want donations. Nah.
The Church Commissioners do have considerable assests, but these are to provide clergy and bishop salaries, pensions etc and to support administration and support faith initiatives. Individual churches and cathedrals do not receive any funding for maintainance and renovation.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: They can do one. An incredibly wealthy organisation sat on bundles of money and shares and they want donations. Nah.[/p][/quote]The Church Commissioners do have considerable assests, but these are to provide clergy and bishop salaries, pensions etc and to support administration and support faith initiatives. Individual churches and cathedrals do not receive any funding for maintainance and renovation. Of the Ilk
  • Score: 0

11:08am Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Wow..Even without much marketing Winchester Cathedral last year attracted 330000 visitors.

How does it compare with that eyesore Tories attached to listed building of Civic Centre, Hannides Horror House the museum which got plenty of free publicity because of events connected with tragedy of Titanic this year and also free passes sent to every house in city personally signed by Cllr. Smith?

Is it not strange that super rich religious business is asking others to give millions for fixing problems including ligts in what is supposed to be House of God? Or is it the proof that religion can't shed light and even God's own house is full of darkness?

Church should be left to find its own finance, for lottery money Southampton could be better candidate. Our City has best collection of Arts outside London. Money should be spent on bigger premises so more of it can be displayed, we may not be able to compete with other places with museums but have better assets in arts.

Old Tyrell and Greens site could be suitable for new art gallery, if Council forgets its pies in sky about this site.
Wow..Even without much marketing Winchester Cathedral last year attracted 330000 visitors. How does it compare with that eyesore Tories attached to listed building of Civic Centre, Hannides Horror House the museum which got plenty of free publicity because of events connected with tragedy of Titanic this year and also free passes sent to every house in city personally signed by Cllr. Smith? Is it not strange that super rich religious business is asking others to give millions for fixing problems including ligts in what is supposed to be House of God? Or is it the proof that religion can't shed light and even God's own house is full of darkness? Church should be left to find its own finance, for lottery money Southampton could be better candidate. Our City has best collection of Arts outside London. Money should be spent on bigger premises so more of it can be displayed, we may not be able to compete with other places with museums but have better assets in arts. Old Tyrell and Greens site could be suitable for new art gallery, if Council forgets its pies in sky about this site. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

11:11am Thu 6 Sep 12

southy says...

Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world. southy
  • Score: 0

11:21am Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Southy, what do you think about one in Salisbury?
Has got be better to be painted by very famous artist.. Well that is my view.
Southy, what do you think about one in Salisbury? Has got be better to be painted by very famous artist.. Well that is my view. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

11:24am Thu 6 Sep 12

Higginz says...

I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after?

Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list.
I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after? Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list. Higginz
  • Score: 0

11:31am Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Hi guys,

Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok.

If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post.
Hi guys, Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok. If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

11:40am Thu 6 Sep 12

Georgem says...

Higginz wrote:
I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after?

Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list.
A lolly? Think bigger. You could get a new bike AND an action man helicopter out of this.
[quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after? Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list.[/p][/quote]A lolly? Think bigger. You could get a new bike AND an action man helicopter out of this. Georgem
  • Score: 0

11:44am Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:45am Thu 6 Sep 12

Georgem says...

"My cathedral can beat up your cathedral"
"My cathedral can beat up your cathedral" Georgem
  • Score: 0

11:50am Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

From the C of E website: -

"The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds."

Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed?

The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks. freefinker
  • Score: 0

11:51am Thu 6 Sep 12

Lone Ranger. says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi guys,

Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok.

If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post.
If i remember rightly PB he was heavily criticised by posters relating to Council Estates and the people that live on them.
.
He stated that he would be withdrawing from the forum with immediate effect.
.
That was about 6 weeks ago.
.
Still i suppose if you cant take it.. then dont give it
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Hi guys, Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok. If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post.[/p][/quote]If i remember rightly PB he was heavily criticised by posters relating to Council Estates and the people that live on them. . He stated that he would be withdrawing from the forum with immediate effect. . That was about 6 weeks ago. . Still i suppose if you cant take it.. then dont give it Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

11:52am Thu 6 Sep 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
It's a good job your so easy to wind up, it's been a slow day so far.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote]It's a good job your so easy to wind up, it's been a slow day so far. Shoong
  • Score: 0

11:56am Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi guys,

Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok.

If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post.
Well said Paramjit. Don't agree with his politics or religious opinions but he's a thoroughly decent bloke who expresses his views well and inoffensively.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: Hi guys, Does anybody knows how is Condorman. Haven't noticed him around lately. Hope he is Ok. If any of his Conservative or Christian colleagues know him, please post.[/p][/quote]Well said Paramjit. Don't agree with his politics or religious opinions but he's a thoroughly decent bloke who expresses his views well and inoffensively. freefinker
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Of the Ilk says...

freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: -

"The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds."

Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed?

The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears?
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears? Of the Ilk
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Higginz says...

Georgem wrote:
Higginz wrote:
I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after?

Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list.
A lolly? Think bigger. You could get a new bike AND an action man helicopter out of this.
I WANT LOLLY!!
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: I feel like a child stuck between two arguing parents. Will you both buy me a lolly after? Thanks for the recommendation Southy. Next time I'm in the area (I usually go to Bath for a weekend in December for the Christmas markets), I'll add it to my TO DO list.[/p][/quote]A lolly? Think bigger. You could get a new bike AND an action man helicopter out of this.[/p][/quote]I WANT LOLLY!! Higginz
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

Of the Ilk wrote:
freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: -

"The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds."

Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed?

The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears?
.. no, I'm advocating they spend a tiny fraction of just the income they receive on these huge investments.

After all, what are these investments for if not for meeting the C of E's financial demands, and this includes the upkeep of its buildings.

If your house needed 19K of repairs and you had £4.8M stashed away as savings, why oh why would you expect to be bailed out with a 10K subsidy?
[quote][p][bold]Of the Ilk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears?[/p][/quote].. no, I'm advocating they spend a tiny fraction of just the income they receive on these huge investments. After all, what are these investments for if not for meeting the C of E's financial demands, and this includes the upkeep of its buildings. If your house needed 19K of repairs and you had £4.8M stashed away as savings, why oh why would you expect to be bailed out with a 10K subsidy? freefinker
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

freefinker wrote:
Of the Ilk wrote:
freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: -

"The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds."

Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed?

The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears?
.. no, I'm advocating they spend a tiny fraction of just the income they receive on these huge investments.

After all, what are these investments for if not for meeting the C of E's financial demands, and this includes the upkeep of its buildings.

If your house needed 19K of repairs and you had £4.8M stashed away as savings, why oh why would you expect to be bailed out with a 10K subsidy?
That is right on target.

If religions are really charitable and compassionate as all of those pretend to be, they should be voluntarily using their profits for providing homes for the homeless and at least pick up the bills for repairing their own super markets, specialising in selling false products.

I wonder what these global property funds could be getting upto… all in the name of a decent man of his times Mr. Jesus Christ
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Of the Ilk[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Read the Church Commissioners web site and find out what they do with the assests. Are you advocating selling the family silver to plug aleak now? What do you do when all the silver is gone and another leak appears?[/p][/quote].. no, I'm advocating they spend a tiny fraction of just the income they receive on these huge investments. After all, what are these investments for if not for meeting the C of E's financial demands, and this includes the upkeep of its buildings. If your house needed 19K of repairs and you had £4.8M stashed away as savings, why oh why would you expect to be bailed out with a 10K subsidy?[/p][/quote]That is right on target. If religions are really charitable and compassionate as all of those pretend to be, they should be voluntarily using their profits for providing homes for the homeless and at least pick up the bills for repairing their own super markets, specialising in selling false products. I wonder what these global property funds could be getting upto… all in the name of a decent man of his times Mr. Jesus Christ Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

1:35pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Des Olated says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O Des Olated
  • Score: 0

2:44pm Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
[quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous. freefinker
  • Score: 0

2:52pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Des Olated says...

freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
Yep, agreed.
If the Church is pleading poverty perhaps English heritage could take over one or two and use them to display Southampton's (& HRH's) hidden arts collection, A fantastic art display in a cathedral, that would pull in the crowds & money.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]Yep, agreed. If the Church is pleading poverty perhaps English heritage could take over one or two and use them to display Southampton's (& HRH's) hidden arts collection, A fantastic art display in a cathedral, that would pull in the crowds & money. Des Olated
  • Score: 0

3:14pm Thu 6 Sep 12

info@denisbundy.co.uk says...

stay local wrote:
How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power??
Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster.
how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion?
The senior priest of a cathedral, whether a dean or a provost, is usually styled as The Very Reverend - there, a little bit of vital information you were missing. It is an accepted fact that those in faith generally deal with illness and indeed terminal illness with more success than those not in faith - not a bad reason on its own. The historical importance of this beautiful cathedral and the role it plays in the community is without doubt. You carry on worshipping at McDonalds and I'll carry on worshipping at my church. Live and let live.
[quote][p][bold]stay local[/bold] wrote: How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power?? Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster. how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion?[/p][/quote]The senior priest of a cathedral, whether a dean or a provost, is usually styled as The Very Reverend - there, a little bit of vital information you were missing. It is an accepted fact that those in faith generally deal with illness and indeed terminal illness with more success than those not in faith - not a bad reason on its own. The historical importance of this beautiful cathedral and the role it plays in the community is without doubt. You carry on worshipping at McDonalds and I'll carry on worshipping at my church. Live and let live. info@denisbundy.co.uk
  • Score: 0

3:31pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Georgem says...

freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion. Georgem
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Georgem says...

Georgem wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.
Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.[/p][/quote]Disclosure: I am 100% atheist. Georgem
  • Score: 0

5:22pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

info@denisbundy.co.u
k
wrote:
stay local wrote:
How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power??
Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster.
how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion?
The senior priest of a cathedral, whether a dean or a provost, is usually styled as The Very Reverend - there, a little bit of vital information you were missing. It is an accepted fact that those in faith generally deal with illness and indeed terminal illness with more success than those not in faith - not a bad reason on its own. The historical importance of this beautiful cathedral and the role it plays in the community is without doubt. You carry on worshipping at McDonalds and I'll carry on worshipping at my church. Live and let live.
denisbundy, I Fully support your good attitude “Live and let Live”. And I am sure so do most others.

A close friend of mine Mani Shankar Aiyar authored ‘Confessions of Secular Fundamentalist’. Although mostly from Indian angle, where in supposedly secular state religions keep on creating problems, basic issues even in UK are not all that different.

In his book Mr. Aiyar has referred to time when his mother was seriously ill and sadly passed away. Being very religious she coped with her last days better than Mani who is like me. Yes it is like that in most cases, even who are left behind if religious cope with tragedies much better than us lot. Obviously there may be few exceptions. If you want to read contact me to borrow my copy, provided you make donation to Cancer Research UK.

Kind regards.
[quote][p][bold]info@denisbundy.co.u k[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stay local[/bold] wrote: How does a reverent become very reverent? What is the difference is it a type of super power?? Then as for the fundraising. I would support it to maintain the architecture of the building, but this is to continue to promote the " worship and witness". If as claimed this the heart of the community why are there more people going each week to McDonalds than to the church, on that basis we should be getting a lottery grant to support a burger chain. Will the education centre continue to press the myth of religion, will they as educators teach the controversy? and give equal weight to other religions that claim equal divine right and how about a small area to the flying spaghetti monster. how many more years before we are wiling to say there is no evidence for any of the claims made by religion?[/p][/quote]The senior priest of a cathedral, whether a dean or a provost, is usually styled as The Very Reverend - there, a little bit of vital information you were missing. It is an accepted fact that those in faith generally deal with illness and indeed terminal illness with more success than those not in faith - not a bad reason on its own. The historical importance of this beautiful cathedral and the role it plays in the community is without doubt. You carry on worshipping at McDonalds and I'll carry on worshipping at my church. Live and let live.[/p][/quote]denisbundy, I Fully support your good attitude “Live and let Live”. And I am sure so do most others. A close friend of mine Mani Shankar Aiyar authored ‘Confessions of Secular Fundamentalist’. Although mostly from Indian angle, where in supposedly secular state religions keep on creating problems, basic issues even in UK are not all that different. In his book Mr. Aiyar has referred to time when his mother was seriously ill and sadly passed away. Being very religious she coped with her last days better than Mani who is like me. Yes it is like that in most cases, even who are left behind if religious cope with tragedies much better than us lot. Obviously there may be few exceptions. If you want to read contact me to borrow my copy, provided you make donation to Cancer Research UK. Kind regards. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

5:30pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Huffter says...

freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists. Huffter
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Georgem wrote:
Georgem wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.
Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.
Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up.

But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.[/p][/quote]Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.[/p][/quote]Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up. But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

5:42pm Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

Huffter wrote:
freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.
.. er, 'cause it's their building.
[quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.[/p][/quote].. er, 'cause it's their building. freefinker
  • Score: 0

5:45pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

Huffter wrote:
freefinker wrote:
From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.
If that is the case, God Brigade often seen there doing their dramas must be freeloaders. Using the facilities without paying market price for the use of this building.
[quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.[/p][/quote]If that is the case, God Brigade often seen there doing their dramas must be freeloaders. Using the facilities without paying market price for the use of this building. Paramjit Bahia
  • Score: 0

6:26pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Georgem says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Georgem wrote:
Georgem wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.
Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.
Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up.

But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc.
Heh, there's no such thing as atheist AND agnostic! You're an agnostic, stop lying to yourself :)

I don't see anything wrong with going along with some religious traditions if it means not upsetting a family member or some such.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.[/p][/quote]Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.[/p][/quote]Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up. But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc.[/p][/quote]Heh, there's no such thing as atheist AND agnostic! You're an agnostic, stop lying to yourself :) I don't see anything wrong with going along with some religious traditions if it means not upsetting a family member or some such. Georgem
  • Score: 0

7:29pm Thu 6 Sep 12

cmth40 says...

they insult the people by over charging to go into a place of god,they,d get more if like chichester its free and you donate,visitors by pass as they cant pay £20+for 4,and then the church took to doing parties in there what a con,and insult to the religious side,what next winchester dancing girls or pole dancers,stop wasting money stop insulting people with your bright ideas,stop having the dictators on the door to demang a set payment a house of god is for all not the rich and elite
they insult the people by over charging to go into a place of god,they,d get more if like chichester its free and you donate,visitors by pass as they cant pay £20+for 4,and then the church took to doing parties in there what a con,and insult to the religious side,what next winchester dancing girls or pole dancers,stop wasting money stop insulting people with your bright ideas,stop having the dictators on the door to demang a set payment a house of god is for all not the rich and elite cmth40
  • Score: 0

7:43pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Higginz says...

It's £6.50 for a visit, or £10 for an annual pass. Plus a bit extra for the tour. That's about a quarter of a happy ending, and the experience lasts a bit longer.
It's £6.50 for a visit, or £10 for an annual pass. Plus a bit extra for the tour. That's about a quarter of a happy ending, and the experience lasts a bit longer. Higginz
  • Score: 0

8:21pm Thu 6 Sep 12

Huffter says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Huffter wrote:
freefinker wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.
Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.
If that is the case, God Brigade often seen there doing their dramas must be freeloaders. Using the facilities without paying market price for the use of this building.
Best just let it fall down then....
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Huffter[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: From the C of E website: - "The Church Commissioners manage assets worth some £4.8 billion at the end of 2009. The fund includes stock market and property investments, including UK urban property, rural and development land, and a stake in global property funds." Why should the Heritage Lottery Fund be expected to pay for more than half the £19m needed? The C of E can well afford it - almost petty cash me finks.[/p][/quote]Why should the C of E pay for it ? A church congregation can worship in any building - a beautiful cathedral is for the benefit of tourists.[/p][/quote]If that is the case, God Brigade often seen there doing their dramas must be freeloaders. Using the facilities without paying market price for the use of this building.[/p][/quote]Best just let it fall down then.... Huffter
  • Score: 0

8:57pm Thu 6 Sep 12

freefinker says...

Georgem wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Georgem wrote:
Georgem wrote:
freefinker wrote:
Des Olated wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Shoong wrote:
southy wrote:
Higginz wrote:
Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.
If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.
In my opinion, that's simply not true.
Whats not true shoong
Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.
The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said
"If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells"
and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also.
Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.
.. right on southy.
Totally agree with all you say above.
If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way?
As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O
.. think I agree with all that as well.

I'm being far too conciliatory today.

I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.
I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.
Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.
Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up.

But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc.
Heh, there's no such thing as atheist AND agnostic! You're an agnostic, stop lying to yourself :)

I don't see anything wrong with going along with some religious traditions if it means not upsetting a family member or some such.
.. ah true, but you CAN be atheist and religious, apparently.

Remember: -

southy says...1:43pm Tue 17 Jul 12: -

"Yes sorry about that Osprey, was making a point that this country is Christian Atheist mainly. some do not realise the subsection to Atheist, like you can get Hebrew Atheist, Hindu Atheist, Muslim Atheist and so on."

But Atheist Agnostic - NO, southy doesn't allow that.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Des Olated[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Higginz[/bold] wrote: Despite not being religious, I loved my recent visit to Winchester Cathedral. The self guided tour was certainly worth the money. Not only is the place fascinating and the exhibits interesting, but I got a real sense of the historical significance of the building. I left it feeling quite inspired actually, and will certainly be back for the proposed exhibitions.[/p][/quote]If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells Cathedral.[/p][/quote]In my opinion, that's simply not true.[/p][/quote]Whats not true shoong[/p][/quote]Are you totally thick? You indicated 'Wells Cathedral' is better than Winch Cathedral, I don't think that's true at all, Winch Cathedral is the pups nuts and is the greatest Cathedral in the world.[/p][/quote]The only thick one is you self shoong, I did not say Wells Cathedral is better, I just said "If you think Winchester Cathedral is good then go and visit Wells" and that is not indicating any thing, apart from if Higginz enjoys looking at these types of buildings, then he would enjoy Wells also. Wells Cathedral is the one where a Swan rings a bell to be fed, it also has the oldest wooden clock in the world.[/p][/quote].. right on southy. Totally agree with all you say above.[/p][/quote]If going form Winchester to Wells surely no-one would miss out Salisbury's cathedral on the way? As for Winchester greatest in the world? Not sure it beats Canterbury IMH(secular)O[/p][/quote].. think I agree with all that as well. I'm being far too conciliatory today. I dislike the activities that go on in these places of superstition but some of the architecture if fabulous.[/p][/quote]I love churches. Whether you're religious or not, some of the most fantastic art and architecture in history has been inspired - and indeed paid for - by religion.[/p][/quote]Disclosure: I am 100% atheist.[/p][/quote]Me? Between atheist mostly and agnostic rarely when have to pretend on social occasions along with some relations, so when in Gurdwara keep on worrying if the roof is going to fall upon me! Thankfully more and more people have started to wake up. But we must keep on defending the rights of others to follow the religion of their own choice provided they do not, force it down every body's throat and stop exploiting for other motives, some time even very nasty ones....like on London Transport etc.[/p][/quote]Heh, there's no such thing as atheist AND agnostic! You're an agnostic, stop lying to yourself :) I don't see anything wrong with going along with some religious traditions if it means not upsetting a family member or some such.[/p][/quote].. ah true, but you CAN be atheist and religious, apparently. Remember: - southy says...1:43pm Tue 17 Jul 12: - "Yes sorry about that Osprey, was making a point that this country is Christian Atheist mainly. some do not realise the subsection to Atheist, like you can get Hebrew Atheist, Hindu Atheist, Muslim Atheist and so on." But Atheist Agnostic - NO, southy doesn't allow that. freefinker
  • Score: 0

9:06am Fri 7 Sep 12

southy says...

freefinker
This should answer that point at the bottom its a cut and paste.

An agnostic is a person who believes that the existence of a greater power, such as a god, cannot be proven or disproved; therefore an agnostic wallows in the complexity of the existence of higher beings.

Agnostics on religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhists, etc): Religious zealots are often viewed as ignorant by agnostics’ because of their blind following of a supreme being which may or may not exist. Agnostics will often question the existence of a supreme power because a lot of modern religious beliefs have no basis in modern logic; therefore blind following of popular religions is viewed as an easy out for people who chose not to think for themselves.

Agnostics on atheism: On the other end of the spectrum, unlike atheists, an agnostic uses a more scientific approach to their belief system. An agnostic knows that just because there is no physical proof of the existence of a higher being, it dose not automatically mean that one does not exist. An agnostic views an atheist on the same plane as a religious zealot; often because the belief that human beings are the pinnacle of intelligence and there are few things that we do not or have the potential to understand.

The realization of knowing that “we cannot know everything” is the backbone of the agnostic belief.
freefinker This should answer that point at the bottom its a cut and paste. An agnostic is a person who believes that the existence of a greater power, such as a god, cannot be proven or disproved; therefore an agnostic wallows in the complexity of the existence of higher beings. Agnostics on religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhists, etc): Religious zealots are often viewed as ignorant by agnostics’ because of their blind following of a supreme being which may or may not exist. Agnostics will often question the existence of a supreme power because a lot of modern religious beliefs have no basis in modern logic; therefore blind following of popular religions is viewed as an easy out for people who chose not to think for themselves. Agnostics on atheism: On the other end of the spectrum, unlike atheists, an agnostic uses a more scientific approach to their belief system. An agnostic knows that just because there is no physical proof of the existence of a higher being, it dose not automatically mean that one does not exist. An agnostic views an atheist on the same plane as a religious zealot; often because the belief that human beings are the pinnacle of intelligence and there are few things that we do not or have the potential to understand. The realization of knowing that “we cannot know everything” is the backbone of the agnostic belief. southy
  • Score: 0

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