Schools boss: We need £200m to ease our classrooms crisis

Daily Echo: Cllr Roy Perry Cllr Roy Perry

HAMPSHIRE’S schools boss has again demanded the Government provide extra cash needed to avoid a crisis in class places in the face of rapidly rising pupil numbers.

School may be out for the summer, but county council education chiefs are continuing to work on ways to provide around 10,000 new school places needed within the next decade.

It comes as new figures from the Department for Education show almost a quarter of Hampshire’s primary schools are running over capacity.

The statistics show 101 of 426 primaries in the Hampshire County Council area, and 13 of Southampton ’s 61, have at least one surplus pupil on their books.

The county council is currently using information from the latest Census, which revealed a seven per cent rise in the number of under-fives, to help revise its plans for increasing school sizes over the next five years.

Hampshire schools boss Councillor Roy Perry, who will make the final decision on the plans in the autumn, said: “Over the next ten years that’s the equivalent of around 20 new primary schools and two secondary schools, and £200m would be needed to meet the long-term projected demand.

That’s why I’m giving Government a loud and clear message that more money will be needed to help us cope with this growth in pupil numbers.”

Rising birth rates are partly behind the looming crisis, but also a growth in housing and more people moving to live in Hampshire.

Ministers said they were already already investing in extra places in areas like the south-east. Earlier this year, Hampshire County Council was handed £9.8m, and Southampton City Council £3.9m to ease the crisis.

As reported, the county council has this month committed £10.8m towards creating more primary school places in Winchester from September 2014, with The Westgate School expected to become Hampshire’s first allthrough state school for four to 16-year-olds.

Another £4m will be spent redeveloping Cupernham Community Infant and Junior Schools in Romsey , providing space for up to 210 pupils as well as enhanced specialist teaching and learning resources and areas for wider community use.

Afurther £2.5m is being spent extending and remodelling Siskin Community Infant and Nursery School in Gosport .

Comments (48)

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11:36am Mon 6 Aug 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.
If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions. UKIPsouthampton

11:43am Mon 6 Aug 12

hulla baloo says...

Perhaps if we pulled out of the EU, then this, along with many other needs,can be paid from the 53million we will save each day.
Perhaps if we pulled out of the EU, then this, along with many other needs,can be paid from the 53million we will save each day. hulla baloo

12:00pm Mon 6 Aug 12

Lone Ranger. says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.
So which immigration numbers do you refer to.
.
The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK.
.
So now how many non EU immigrants are there
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.[/p][/quote]So which immigration numbers do you refer to. . The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK. . So now how many non EU immigrants are there Lone Ranger.

12:05pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mummyofthree says...

Maybe this is also a result of the amount of housing that has sprung up over the last 10 years allowing the populatin to rise and not building any more schools to accommodate the needs. Stop squeezing high rise flats into every patch of green land you can get your hands on and take care of the people who are already herded in like cattle. My children got their third choice in school all because of a new estate, so instead of going to a grade 1 primary school they now have to go to a grade 3! Some parents I know didn't even get a school place for their child so I have to just be grateful we are luckier then them and my children actually get an education. The general population numbers have gone made because things come too easily to those who can't be bothered to work and earn it but the people who work their back sides off get penalised for doing so!
Maybe this is also a result of the amount of housing that has sprung up over the last 10 years allowing the populatin to rise and not building any more schools to accommodate the needs. Stop squeezing high rise flats into every patch of green land you can get your hands on and take care of the people who are already herded in like cattle. My children got their third choice in school all because of a new estate, so instead of going to a grade 1 primary school they now have to go to a grade 3! Some parents I know didn't even get a school place for their child so I have to just be grateful we are luckier then them and my children actually get an education. The general population numbers have gone made because things come too easily to those who can't be bothered to work and earn it but the people who work their back sides off get penalised for doing so! mummyofthree

12:21pm Mon 6 Aug 12

bigfella777 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.
So which immigration numbers do you refer to.
.
The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK.
.
So now how many non EU immigrants are there
We can if we are given the referendum everyone else in Europe has had.Wont give us it because they know what the answer will be.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.[/p][/quote]So which immigration numbers do you refer to. . The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK. . So now how many non EU immigrants are there[/p][/quote]We can if we are given the referendum everyone else in Europe has had.Wont give us it because they know what the answer will be. bigfella777

12:22pm Mon 6 Aug 12

wilson castaway says...

My son has to walk 2.2miles a day, uphill,to get to his primary school,our closest school is over subscribed.Allocatio
ns have told me that they had an influx of children the same age as him so places have become short.My son is only 5 and it maddens me that priority is obviously given to people from overseas rather than people who haved lived in the community for years, generations in my case.
My son has to walk 2.2miles a day, uphill,to get to his primary school,our closest school is over subscribed.Allocatio ns have told me that they had an influx of children the same age as him so places have become short.My son is only 5 and it maddens me that priority is obviously given to people from overseas rather than people who haved lived in the community for years, generations in my case. wilson castaway

12:24pm Mon 6 Aug 12

housewife says...

There is no secondary school in central Southampton because it was closed in the 1980's and sold for flats.
That sort of short sighted decision has a lot more to do with the current problem than "immigrants"
There is no secondary school in central Southampton because it was closed in the 1980's and sold for flats. That sort of short sighted decision has a lot more to do with the current problem than "immigrants" housewife

12:28pm Mon 6 Aug 12

wilson castaway says...

wilson castaway wrote:
My son has to walk 2.2miles a day, uphill,to get to his primary school,our closest school is over subscribed.Allocatio

ns have told me that they had an influx of children the same age as him so places have become short.My son is only 5 and it maddens me that priority is obviously given to people from overseas rather than people who haved lived in the community for years, generations in my case.
(2.2 miles each way)
[quote][p][bold]wilson castaway[/bold] wrote: My son has to walk 2.2miles a day, uphill,to get to his primary school,our closest school is over subscribed.Allocatio ns have told me that they had an influx of children the same age as him so places have become short.My son is only 5 and it maddens me that priority is obviously given to people from overseas rather than people who haved lived in the community for years, generations in my case.[/p][/quote](2.2 miles each way) wilson castaway

12:30pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

so are children of legal immigrants not entitled to the same level of education as other residents of this country? this article highlights the failure of successive governments to correctly fund the education system, who have instead cut taxes and let corporations run free. leaving the EU will not solve these problems, which require a fundamental change in the way we treat those most vulnerable.
so are children of legal immigrants not entitled to the same level of education as other residents of this country? this article highlights the failure of successive governments to correctly fund the education system, who have instead cut taxes and let corporations run free. leaving the EU will not solve these problems, which require a fundamental change in the way we treat those most vulnerable. mtdiablo

12:38pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.
So which immigration numbers do you refer to.
.
The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK.
.
So now how many non EU immigrants are there
Or UK people immigrating out of the Country.
Quick on jumping on those coming in but not willing to take into account those going out.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: If we had controlled immigration numbers then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hear from teachers directly now that in some instances more the half the class come from migrant families and some still have trouble speaking English. In 15/20 years time these children will need jobs and homes, more cars on the road, food. This social experiment that was forced upon by the liberal militants and anybody that spoke out about it branded racists. Now we all have to suffer the consequences of their morally blinded actions.[/p][/quote]So which immigration numbers do you refer to. . The UK cannot stop fellow EU countries workers/families from entering the UK. . So now how many non EU immigrants are there[/p][/quote]Or UK people immigrating out of the Country. Quick on jumping on those coming in but not willing to take into account those going out. southy

12:40pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.
What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools. southy

12:47pm Mon 6 Aug 12

UKIPsouthampton says...

Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history.
.
The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration.
.
The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years.
.
Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language.
Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history. . The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration. . The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years. . Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language. UKIPsouthampton

12:51pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

UKIPsouthampton, do you have a problem with people retaining their language?
UKIPsouthampton, do you have a problem with people retaining their language? mtdiablo

12:58pm Mon 6 Aug 12

hulla baloo says...

UKIPsouthampton wrote:
Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history.
.
The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration.
.
The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years.
.
Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language.
Thats only the ones we know about, wonder what the real figure is.
[quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history. . The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration. . The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years. . Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language.[/p][/quote]Thats only the ones we know about, wonder what the real figure is. hulla baloo

1:07pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
UKIPsouthampton wrote:
Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history.
.
The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration.
.
The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years.
.
Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language.
Thats only the ones we know about, wonder what the real figure is.
70% have English as a second language, I think he missing out the part that these people have English as there first language to.
If not then his first quote of the numbers leaving England is a lot higher than those coming into England.
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]UKIPsouthampton[/bold] wrote: Under the Labour government, 5.2 million foreign immigrants arrived in the UK while 2 million left. Thus net foreign immigration was 3.2 million while about one million British citizens emigrated in that period. Despite the recession and the introduction of the "tough" new Points Based System, net foreign immigration has remained high and has in fact increased. Net migration for 2010 was 239,000. These current levels of immigration are far higher than at any time in our history. . The major impact is on population. The independent Office for National Statistics (ONS) projects that the population of the UK will reach 70 million in 2027 compared to 62.3 today. Nearly all of the increase will be in England. 68% will be due to immigration. . The latest government household projections show that immigration will account for 36% of all new households in the next 20 years. . Meanwhile, there are more than 300 primary schools in which over 70% have English as a second language; this is nearly a half million children. In primary and secondary schools, nearly one million children have English as a second language.[/p][/quote]Thats only the ones we know about, wonder what the real figure is.[/p][/quote]70% have English as a second language, I think he missing out the part that these people have English as there first language to. If not then his first quote of the numbers leaving England is a lot higher than those coming into England. southy

1:10pm Mon 6 Aug 12

good-gosh says...

southy wrote:
What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.
Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc. good-gosh

1:14pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

good-gosh wrote:
southy wrote:
What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.
Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.
Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team.
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.[/p][/quote]Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team. southy

1:38pm Mon 6 Aug 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
southy wrote:
What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.
Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.
Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team.
Southy, I think you missed the pi55 take.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.[/p][/quote]Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team.[/p][/quote]Southy, I think you missed the pi55 take. hulla baloo

1:40pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

What if the Councillors half there yearly allottments pay plus no expenditure claims, this money could go towards the schools.
After all Councillors allottments pay is a lot higher than most people get in a yearly wage, and for how many real hours they spend doing a councillors job, plus most councillors have other jobs that pay a lot higher, How about Councillors and MPs must be unemployed and the do these jobs for there benefit pay.
What if the Councillors half there yearly allottments pay plus no expenditure claims, this money could go towards the schools. After all Councillors allottments pay is a lot higher than most people get in a yearly wage, and for how many real hours they spend doing a councillors job, plus most councillors have other jobs that pay a lot higher, How about Councillors and MPs must be unemployed and the do these jobs for there benefit pay. southy

1:44pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
southy wrote:
What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.
Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.
Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team.
Southy, I think you missed the pi55 take.
was it hulla baloo
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What is needed is more smaller schools and not these super large American Style schools.[/p][/quote]Absolutely right. A school house in every town quarter and village. Small numbers, small running costs, homely atmosphere, personal attention for every child, quite integration, unpressured development, etc, etc.[/p][/quote]Its is also a lot better for sports to as more kids get the chance to be able to take part for a school team.[/p][/quote]Southy, I think you missed the pi55 take.[/p][/quote]was it hulla baloo southy

1:52pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time
southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time mtdiablo

2:02pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

mtdiablo wrote:
southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time
What part do you not under stand.

The direction that schools are going, slowly being privatatise.
Being Americanised.

Or the bit about MP's and Councillors
[quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time[/p][/quote]What part do you not under stand. The direction that schools are going, slowly being privatatise. Being Americanised. Or the bit about MP's and Councillors southy

2:30pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world. mtdiablo

2:35pm Mon 6 Aug 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
What if the Councillors half there yearly allottments pay plus no expenditure claims, this money could go towards the schools.
After all Councillors allottments pay is a lot higher than most people get in a yearly wage, and for how many real hours they spend doing a councillors job, plus most councillors have other jobs that pay a lot higher, How about Councillors and MPs must be unemployed and the do these jobs for there benefit pay.
Well, that would work for you, what about the the rest of the country?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: What if the Councillors half there yearly allottments pay plus no expenditure claims, this money could go towards the schools. After all Councillors allottments pay is a lot higher than most people get in a yearly wage, and for how many real hours they spend doing a councillors job, plus most councillors have other jobs that pay a lot higher, How about Councillors and MPs must be unemployed and the do these jobs for there benefit pay.[/p][/quote]Well, that would work for you, what about the the rest of the country? Shoong

2:44pm Mon 6 Aug 12

Sovietobserver says...

This report concerns only the parties involved ( the education authority and the parents / pupils involved.
The reason for it appearing in this publication is to do with public manipulation. i.e. to illicit a negative emotional response designed to bypass critical thinking, with the intended outcome that public attention is deflected away from the really serious organized malfeasance being commited by the capitalist banks, corporations and politicians that you really are all the victim of.
This report concerns only the parties involved ( the education authority and the parents / pupils involved. The reason for it appearing in this publication is to do with public manipulation. i.e. to illicit a negative emotional response designed to bypass critical thinking, with the intended outcome that public attention is deflected away from the really serious organized malfeasance being commited by the capitalist banks, corporations and politicians that you really are all the victim of. Sovietobserver

2:52pm Mon 6 Aug 12

Shoong says...

Sovietobserver wrote:
This report concerns only the parties involved ( the education authority and the parents / pupils involved.
The reason for it appearing in this publication is to do with public manipulation. i.e. to illicit a negative emotional response designed to bypass critical thinking, with the intended outcome that public attention is deflected away from the really serious organized malfeasance being commited by the capitalist banks, corporations and politicians that you really are all the victim of.
Your right.

The press should be controlled so it only prints what you want to read.
[quote][p][bold]Sovietobserver[/bold] wrote: This report concerns only the parties involved ( the education authority and the parents / pupils involved. The reason for it appearing in this publication is to do with public manipulation. i.e. to illicit a negative emotional response designed to bypass critical thinking, with the intended outcome that public attention is deflected away from the really serious organized malfeasance being commited by the capitalist banks, corporations and politicians that you really are all the victim of.[/p][/quote]Your right. The press should be controlled so it only prints what you want to read. Shoong

3:05pm Mon 6 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

I'm not entirely sure the Daily Echo is partaking in some vast conspiracy to divert attention away from the banking crisis, Sovietobserver. Ensuring our children have a future is as important as bringing down the banks, no?
I'm not entirely sure the Daily Echo is partaking in some vast conspiracy to divert attention away from the banking crisis, Sovietobserver. Ensuring our children have a future is as important as bringing down the banks, no? mtdiablo

4:38pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
[quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas. southy

5:08pm Mon 6 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment? freefinker

6:49pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail. southy

6:53pm Mon 6 Aug 12

southy says...

Heck looking at that my 2 posting times its taking me 2 hours to walk the old river marsh track.
Heck looking at that my 2 posting times its taking me 2 hours to walk the old river marsh track. southy

7:45pm Mon 6 Aug 12

SaintM says...

woolston school has not been knocked down for immigrant housing yet so reopen it although they sold off the tennis courts perhaps cost 1million to buy it back
woolston school has not been knocked down for immigrant housing yet so reopen it although they sold off the tennis courts perhaps cost 1million to buy it back SaintM

8:22pm Mon 6 Aug 12

pod says...

mtdiablo wrote:
southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time
if he does, he is the only one who does read his posts, most just get finger ache scrolling past his name.
[quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: southy do you actually read through what you write? deciphering it takes a ridiculous amount of time[/p][/quote]if he does, he is the only one who does read his posts, most just get finger ache scrolling past his name. pod

10:31pm Mon 6 Aug 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED. Paramjit Bahia

10:39pm Mon 6 Aug 12

IronLady2010 says...

Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir!
Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir! IronLady2010

11:43pm Mon 6 Aug 12

freefinker says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir!
.. indeed.

Thanks Paramjit for making that public.

I think you will probably find that southy's "self appointed authority in Southampton" on this issue is as real as this person’s non-existant post on this website. So, your chances of meeting him/her are miniscule.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir![/p][/quote].. indeed. Thanks Paramjit for making that public. I think you will probably find that southy's "self appointed authority in Southampton" on this issue is as real as this person’s non-existant post on this website. So, your chances of meeting him/her are miniscule. freefinker

7:00am Tue 7 Aug 12

CrunchbackOfCannibleFarm says...

Hang on..why should the UK tax-payer fork out £200 mil just like that ?
Anyone can start their own school today..be it religious based or otherwise..so just get borrowing and get building..dont ask us for more cash.
Hang on..why should the UK tax-payer fork out £200 mil just like that ? Anyone can start their own school today..be it religious based or otherwise..so just get borrowing and get building..dont ask us for more cash. CrunchbackOfCannibleFarm

9:06am Tue 7 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

Private schools like you are suggesting are dangerous. They are unregulated and are therefore free to teach whatever they want. This can be relatively benevolent - e.g. training kids to get into the very best universities - or malicious. Schools should teach all children the same thing to ensure everyone has the same opportunities heading into the world of work. Of course, some children may be better (or worse) at subjects, but they should be given the CHANCE.

And don't get me started on religious-based schools. Have always, are always, and will always be a terrible idea.
Private schools like you are suggesting are dangerous. They are unregulated and are therefore free to teach whatever they want. This can be relatively benevolent - e.g. training kids to get into the very best universities - or malicious. Schools should teach all children the same thing to ensure everyone has the same opportunities heading into the world of work. Of course, some children may be better (or worse) at subjects, but they should be given the CHANCE. And don't get me started on religious-based schools. Have always, are always, and will always be a terrible idea. mtdiablo

11:41am Tue 7 Aug 12

southy says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984.
GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.[/p][/quote]Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984. GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse. southy

12:43pm Tue 7 Aug 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984.
GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.
..ah, you mean southy says, 4:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12

“Then you better go and tell Rahit Maryada that he is a Sikh in India”

Yes, that’s how it all started - 3 weeks ago now, and still not admission you made a simple mistake.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.[/p][/quote]Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984. GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.[/p][/quote]..ah, you mean southy says, 4:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12 “Then you better go and tell Rahit Maryada that he is a Sikh in India” Yes, that’s how it all started - 3 weeks ago now, and still not admission you made a simple mistake. freefinker

12:43pm Tue 7 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
IronLady2010 wrote:
Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir!
.. indeed.

Thanks Paramjit for making that public.

I think you will probably find that southy's "self appointed authority in Southampton" on this issue is as real as this person’s non-existant post on this website. So, your chances of meeting him/her are miniscule.
That was only a small part and not a copy and paste from the e-mails
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: Paramjit Bahia fair play to you! Respect Sir![/p][/quote].. indeed. Thanks Paramjit for making that public. I think you will probably find that southy's "self appointed authority in Southampton" on this issue is as real as this person’s non-existant post on this website. So, your chances of meeting him/her are miniscule.[/p][/quote]That was only a small part and not a copy and paste from the e-mails southy

12:51pm Tue 7 Aug 12

southy says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984.
GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.
..ah, you mean southy says, 4:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12

“Then you better go and tell Rahit Maryada that he is a Sikh in India”

Yes, that’s how it all started - 3 weeks ago now, and still not admission you made a simple mistake.
Thats right pointing towards a translation error (think I did say about the translation error), it should of said Raht Marayada.
For Rahit is a name person fore name, where as Raht is not.
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.[/p][/quote]Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984. GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.[/p][/quote]..ah, you mean southy says, 4:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12 “Then you better go and tell Rahit Maryada that he is a Sikh in India” Yes, that’s how it all started - 3 weeks ago now, and still not admission you made a simple mistake.[/p][/quote]Thats right pointing towards a translation error (think I did say about the translation error), it should of said Raht Marayada. For Rahit is a name person fore name, where as Raht is not. southy

12:56pm Tue 7 Aug 12

southy says...

So next time freefinker you be more careful how you jump in and take things off couse, and taking news Acticals off topic.
So next time freefinker you be more careful how you jump in and take things off couse, and taking news Acticals off topic. southy

1:11pm Tue 7 Aug 12

Paramjit Bahia says...

southy wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984.
GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.
Southy, please forget about others, with greatest respect for you as a socialist colleague even I am starting to wonder if you may be doing gymnastics with words to support your own thesis.

Could you please forward me that email and also post it on this thread.Yes many historic actual documents were destroyed during operation Blue Star in June 1984. But there has got to be copies with other people and people still around who would have read those, like my friend in India had done while studying his religion's history.Although Titanic sank over 100 years ago you still can tell us virtually all about it, same way knowledge on such a serious subject would have survived.

The SGPC's page I sent you establishes: importance of Rahit Maryada, sensitive nature of it, that most important body of Sikhs does not want it to be misquoted so amount of effort they put when getting it translated into English and that it was only recently translated from guess what? Papers which had to be handled with care, hence something that survived the 1984 fire.While trying not to be disrespectful to you, I find it strange that you and your mysterious mate are the only two people who appear to have discovered equivalent of 'holy grail'. If you two have found the real truth you could be the heros for many Sikhs, but otherwise even in my opinion, which is often biased in favour of socialists, you could be a mischief maker hell bent on insulting Sikhism and hurting the inner souls of many including my own blood relations who unlike me are very religious.

Cracking jokes about God's Brigade is one thing, but spreading stories without any proof and that too on the Internet should not be acceptable.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.[/p][/quote]Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984. GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.[/p][/quote]Southy, please forget about others, with greatest respect for you as a socialist colleague even I am starting to wonder if you may be doing gymnastics with words to support your own thesis. Could you please forward me that email and also post it on this thread.Yes many historic actual documents were destroyed during operation Blue Star in June 1984. But there has got to be copies with other people and people still around who would have read those, like my friend in India had done while studying his religion's history.Although Titanic sank over 100 years ago you still can tell us virtually all about it, same way knowledge on such a serious subject would have survived. The SGPC's page I sent you establishes: importance of Rahit Maryada, sensitive nature of it, that most important body of Sikhs does not want it to be misquoted so amount of effort they put when getting it translated into English and that it was only recently translated from guess what? Papers which had to be handled with care, hence something that survived the 1984 fire.While trying not to be disrespectful to you, I find it strange that you and your mysterious mate are the only two people who appear to have discovered equivalent of 'holy grail'. If you two have found the real truth you could be the heros for many Sikhs, but otherwise even in my opinion, which is often biased in favour of socialists, you could be a mischief maker hell bent on insulting Sikhism and hurting the inner souls of many including my own blood relations who unlike me are very religious. Cracking jokes about God's Brigade is one thing, but spreading stories without any proof and that too on the Internet should not be acceptable. Paramjit Bahia

1:34pm Tue 7 Aug 12

southy says...

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
Paramjit Bahia wrote:
southy wrote:
freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
mtdiablo wrote:
I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.
You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.
.. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar.

I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative.

Any comment?
Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation.
I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.
Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear.

While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject.

Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you.
Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting.
I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs.

All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info.

I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive.

Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else.

I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday.

As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!!

Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada.

As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.
Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984.
GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.
Southy, please forget about others, with greatest respect for you as a socialist colleague even I am starting to wonder if you may be doing gymnastics with words to support your own thesis.

Could you please forward me that email and also post it on this thread.Yes many historic actual documents were destroyed during operation Blue Star in June 1984. But there has got to be copies with other people and people still around who would have read those, like my friend in India had done while studying his religion's history.Although Titanic sank over 100 years ago you still can tell us virtually all about it, same way knowledge on such a serious subject would have survived.

The SGPC's page I sent you establishes: importance of Rahit Maryada, sensitive nature of it, that most important body of Sikhs does not want it to be misquoted so amount of effort they put when getting it translated into English and that it was only recently translated from guess what? Papers which had to be handled with care, hence something that survived the 1984 fire.While trying not to be disrespectful to you, I find it strange that you and your mysterious mate are the only two people who appear to have discovered equivalent of 'holy grail'. If you two have found the real truth you could be the heros for many Sikhs, but otherwise even in my opinion, which is often biased in favour of socialists, you could be a mischief maker hell bent on insulting Sikhism and hurting the inner souls of many including my own blood relations who unlike me are very religious.

Cracking jokes about God's Brigade is one thing, but spreading stories without any proof and that too on the Internet should not be acceptable.
Not me Paramjit, I just made equires talk to people, and relay what was said. and I would very much agree Translation is important, and its never going to be easy to translate between to langages, theres not enough latin letters or words of discriptions.
like what you said about your cousin in canada, but will not go into that today.
Really we should not be having a discussion about this, after what happened over the Sunday and should be showing some repect to those that lost there lifes and family and friends.
[quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Paramjit Bahia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mtdiablo[/bold] wrote: I understand what you're saying, and to an extent i agree with you, but you don't have the best grammar in the world.[/p][/quote]You do not need good grammar and spelling ect to have the right or good ideas.[/p][/quote].. very true, and I have never criticised your spelling and grammar. I hope you have read Paramjit's reply to you on yesterday's broadband speeds story. It's very informative. Any comment?[/p][/quote]Yes I know we was talking away from this site, and why there is very little information around on the Philosophers scholars was because of the fire at the Golden Temple in 1986 when the troops invaded the temple, alot of texts was distroyed in the fire. Sent an 2 e-mails off yesterday got one back today, in it basically says that Rehat Maryada is a name and is reasonably common name, but Reht Marayada is not that is the code of conduct, but it do not mean it was not named after the philosopher, they no longer know, and it will come down to Translation. I hope that is some help to you, it was Paramji that told who to e-mail.[/p][/quote]Southy, as you have decided to make my yesterday's emails to you public, although it is has no relavence to the this news item, for my own credibility I must make my involvement on this crystal clear. While I do not follow any religion, I belong to Bahia blood, Sikh religion has very special place in the hearts of most of Bahia and Brar families. Some of them along with many other Sikhs may find your baseless theories very offensive. So I must put on record that I am not endorsing your unproven statement on this subject. Because I was not 100% sure on Rahit Maryada, I checked with a friend in London who has spent most of his life serving in various capacities on Sikh religious bodies. He disagrees with you. Checked with a friend (retired Income Tax official) who not only follows this religion but is from historically important Sikh family. I think it was his uncle or grand dad, a high court judge, who'd helped the SGPC and drafting of law mentioned in Wikipedia under Rahit Maryada. So lot of knowledge has been passed within that family. He knew absolutely nothing about what you are suggesting. I also phoned a friend in INDIA, also from respectable Sikh background who has studied law and history, especially of his religion. He not only disagreed with what you are saying but also has never come across individual named Rahit Maryada connected with 10 th Guru of Sikhs. All that detail was passed on to you in good faith, because I thought some crack pot may have given you wrong info. I emailed you page from SGPC website, to make you aware that this subject is too sensitive. Also informed you that many original historical Sikh documents were destroyed during Indian Army's attack upon Golden Temple Complex in 1984 ( not 1986 as per your post).But that does not mean knowledge of those documents has also disappeared. There may also be copies somewhere else. I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of. So for saving my own neck from my own family members and close friends I must put it on record that on Rahit Maryada my agreeing with your view is million times less than me beating Bolt by walking with help of stick when he ran 100 meters yesterday. As you are a fellow socialist, I suggest you travel to India, my friends there can provide you bed and grub and help you with your research, if you can come up with your proof many will respect you for contribution to history, otherwise? I hate to think!!! Today I phoned my friend in India again about you mentioning 5 teachers involved in authoring along with 10 th Guru..... U got it wrong again. In fact Guru Gobind Singh baptised 5 men known as Payara (loved ones) which is common knowledge. None of them with name Rahit Maryada. As last throw, I am willing to meet whoever is your self appointed authority in Southampton, so that even with my limited knowledge I could prove to him/her in face that he/she is is feeding you lot of pure cr@p. Otherwise subject CLOSED.[/p][/quote]Still waiting on the e-mail from SGPC, I sent 2 off the other day to India, and the 1 return said the same about the Golden Temple, to much information was lost for good in that fire.yes sorry hit the wrong key on the year was 1984. GeorgeM now go back the first post on this and look what I said back then, before freefinker and other jump in and took it off couse.[/p][/quote]Southy, please forget about others, with greatest respect for you as a socialist colleague even I am starting to wonder if you may be doing gymnastics with words to support your own thesis. Could you please forward me that email and also post it on this thread.Yes many historic actual documents were destroyed during operation Blue Star in June 1984. But there has got to be copies with other people and people still around who would have read those, like my friend in India had done while studying his religion's history.Although Titanic sank over 100 years ago you still can tell us virtually all about it, same way knowledge on such a serious subject would have survived. The SGPC's page I sent you establishes: importance of Rahit Maryada, sensitive nature of it, that most important body of Sikhs does not want it to be misquoted so amount of effort they put when getting it translated into English and that it was only recently translated from guess what? Papers which had to be handled with care, hence something that survived the 1984 fire.While trying not to be disrespectful to you, I find it strange that you and your mysterious mate are the only two people who appear to have discovered equivalent of 'holy grail'. If you two have found the real truth you could be the heros for many Sikhs, but otherwise even in my opinion, which is often biased in favour of socialists, you could be a mischief maker hell bent on insulting Sikhism and hurting the inner souls of many including my own blood relations who unlike me are very religious. Cracking jokes about God's Brigade is one thing, but spreading stories without any proof and that too on the Internet should not be acceptable.[/p][/quote]Not me Paramjit, I just made equires talk to people, and relay what was said. and I would very much agree Translation is important, and its never going to be easy to translate between to langages, theres not enough latin letters or words of discriptions. like what you said about your cousin in canada, but will not go into that today. Really we should not be having a discussion about this, after what happened over the Sunday and should be showing some repect to those that lost there lifes and family and friends. southy

1:59pm Tue 7 Aug 12

mtdiablo says...

Guys, do you literally have nothing better to do than spend all day arguing the same points?
Guys, do you literally have nothing better to do than spend all day arguing the same points? mtdiablo

5:40pm Tue 7 Aug 12

Cyber__Fug says...

Well done Paramijt, I take my cap off to you... you expose the troll for the fake he is and he still comes back saying he's right !

Dopey, have you heard the expression when in a hole stop digging ???
Well done Paramijt, I take my cap off to you... you expose the troll for the fake he is and he still comes back saying he's right ! Dopey, have you heard the expression when in a hole stop digging ??? Cyber__Fug

6:27pm Tue 7 Aug 12

freefinker says...

Cyber__Fug wrote:
Well done Paramijt, I take my cap off to you... you expose the troll for the fake he is and he still comes back saying he's right !

Dopey, have you heard the expression when in a hole stop digging ???
.. trouble is, he actually still thinks he is right.

Doesn't care that Paramjit tells him he's treading on very sensitive religious issues with his weird and wacky concocted theory, doesn't show respect that Paramjit has assembled authoritative Sikh opinions to disprove all he says, totally misuses and abuses the information provided to him privately, ignores Paramjit’s “I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of”, invents a post from his so called source which is obvious to all is a premeditated and deceitful lie – and all because he just can’t bring himself to admit he made a rather insignificant mistake.

Pathetic.
[quote][p][bold]Cyber__Fug[/bold] wrote: Well done Paramijt, I take my cap off to you... you expose the troll for the fake he is and he still comes back saying he's right ! Dopey, have you heard the expression when in a hole stop digging ???[/p][/quote].. trouble is, he actually still thinks he is right. Doesn't care that Paramjit tells him he's treading on very sensitive religious issues with his weird and wacky concocted theory, doesn't show respect that Paramjit has assembled authoritative Sikh opinions to disprove all he says, totally misuses and abuses the information provided to him privately, ignores Paramjit’s “I find it amazing that you stubbornly keep on justifying something nobody seem to have ever heard of”, invents a post from his so called source which is obvious to all is a premeditated and deceitful lie – and all because he just can’t bring himself to admit he made a rather insignificant mistake. Pathetic. freefinker

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