Incoming council leader calls £300m power station plans a 'green wash'

Artist's impression of the new biomass plant design, as it would be seen from Foundry Lane, Southampton.

Incoming council leader Richard Williams.

First published in Environment Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

Southampton’S incoming council leader has dubbed new designs for a £300m power station in Southampton a “green wash”.

Helius Energy went back to the drawing board after its previous plans for a 100 megawatt wood-fuelled power station in the western docks sparked outrage.

The Daily Echo yesterday revealed the new plans released ahead of a 12-week consultation period during which the company hopes to win people round.

The revised plans would see it moved back a further 125m, its height reduced and three new possible designs, while the chimney stack has also been increased to 100m to avoid air pollution in the local area.

However, Councillor Richard Williams, leader of the Labour group, which opposed the plans in its manifesto, said he was not impressed.

He said: “It is cosmetic and does not change the underlying rationale of the development. It is environmentally wrong, it’s socially wrong and it’s a purely opportunistic development.”

Tory counterpart Councillor Royston Smith, who will tomorrow hand over the reins of power to Cllr Williams, said the designs would not go far enough to put residents’ minds at rest.

He said: “It is still huge and you can’t have this great big monstrosity that would sit at the end of Foundry Lane. There are still concerns about the pollution levels.”

Last year the plan sparked outrage from residents living in Freemantle and Shirley, who feared the impact of fumes and noise on their health and the effect it would have on property prices.

No Southampton Biomass campaigner Eloisa Gil-Arranz said the fundamental concerns remain.

She said: “They have put it in a much better outfit and cosmetically lifted it, but effectively the proposal is not changed. It’s still a huge power station.

“They have effectively moved it two football pitches away from people’s homes. The thing I find really disappointing is the way they are promoting it. They are manipulating us, asking which of the three designs we like best. But they have lost touch with the fact that we don’t want a power station.”

Helius Energy planning director Paul Brighton said he hoped to thoroughly explain the new plans over the next 12 weeks. He said: “While the company acknowledges the concerns expressed by some local residents, the environmental studies that have been undertaken by independent consultants indicate the scheme would have a negligible impact on local air quality, noise and traffic.

“Our intention is that this will be a landmark feature for Southampton and we hope the local community will contribute to the decision about which design will be taken forward.”

Helius said the new-look plant would have less impact and would win the city 450 construction jobs and 40 others at the plant.

Mr Brighton added: “It is important to remember the need to address the growing issue of climate change and renewable energy projects like this will make a significant contribution.”

Comments (30)

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3:44pm Tue 15 May 12

loosehead says...

Well before listening to Helius he comes out with this?
so all of the plans for the future development for this city planned for by the Tory council will that be Green Wash?
is he planning on scrapping them all?
Well before listening to Helius he comes out with this? so all of the plans for the future development for this city planned for by the Tory council will that be Green Wash? is he planning on scrapping them all? loosehead
  • Score: 0

4:09pm Tue 15 May 12

Over the Edge says...

loosehead, the long term plan for the city was carried out years ago, the Tories took the plan re-jigged it and sold, almost hook, line and sinker as their own.
loosehead, the long term plan for the city was carried out years ago, the Tories took the plan re-jigged it and sold, almost hook, line and sinker as their own. Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

4:20pm Tue 15 May 12

Bagamn says...

Wouldn't it be better to tell Mr Paul Brighton to take his pencils and clear off to Brighton. They might appreciate his work with a name like his.
Wouldn't it be better to tell Mr Paul Brighton to take his pencils and clear off to Brighton. They might appreciate his work with a name like his. Bagamn
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Tue 15 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

4:26pm Tue 15 May 12

The Salv says...

I wonder if Eloisa Gil-Arranz would be campaigning so hard if she lived in Portugal or Dundee?
.
Maybe she would like the container port re-located as well, and that noisy road. She obviously doesnt care much for industrial/Engineeri
ng jobs and careers. I see she after doing a degree in interior design she ended up working for a company that takes photographs. Really helpfull to society that, I wonder were she gets all the electricity from to power that photographic studio. Still when she has moved on and long forgotten about Southampton I am sure she wouldnt careless about all the jobs and careers and skilled engineers she prevented.
I wonder if Eloisa Gil-Arranz would be campaigning so hard if she lived in Portugal or Dundee? . Maybe she would like the container port re-located as well, and that noisy road. She obviously doesnt care much for industrial/Engineeri ng jobs and careers. I see she after doing a degree in interior design she ended up working for a company that takes photographs. Really helpfull to society that, I wonder were she gets all the electricity from to power that photographic studio. Still when she has moved on and long forgotten about Southampton I am sure she wouldnt careless about all the jobs and careers and skilled engineers she prevented. The Salv
  • Score: 0

4:43pm Tue 15 May 12

Shoong says...

'Green wash'. It's a new one!

Looking forward to more of this from the incoming Mr Williams.
'Green wash'. It's a new one! Looking forward to more of this from the incoming Mr Williams. Shoong
  • Score: 0

5:16pm Tue 15 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c
hsdgyv
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

7:21pm Tue 15 May 12

Andy Locks Heath says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c

hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 0

8:49pm Tue 15 May 12

Rob444 says...

The power station should be built as close as possible to the source of its fuel.
The power station should be built as close as possible to the source of its fuel. Rob444
  • Score: 0

8:52pm Tue 15 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c


hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ? Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

9:10pm Tue 15 May 12

loosehead says...

Will councillor Williams put his money where his mouth is?
Across Millbrook/Redbridge & Lordshill private residents are having solar panels fitted to their roofs.
this is under a government scheme where they lease their roof space for 25 years & get all electricity for payment when it's light,
In the winter in the daytime they can run an electric heater free of charge & at night either put on the gas or pay the electric.
This option has been taken up by a few Northern city councils will Southampton sign up to it allowing tenants who want this to have it or will they stop their tenants from being afforded the same cost cutting as us private households?
this is something for nothing so come on Williams will you allow your tenants to sign up to it?
Maybe the Bio Mass might not be needed if enough signed up?
Will councillor Williams put his money where his mouth is? Across Millbrook/Redbridge & Lordshill private residents are having solar panels fitted to their roofs. this is under a government scheme where they lease their roof space for 25 years & get all electricity for payment when it's light, In the winter in the daytime they can run an electric heater free of charge & at night either put on the gas or pay the electric. This option has been taken up by a few Northern city councils will Southampton sign up to it allowing tenants who want this to have it or will they stop their tenants from being afforded the same cost cutting as us private households? this is something for nothing so come on Williams will you allow your tenants to sign up to it? Maybe the Bio Mass might not be needed if enough signed up? loosehead
  • Score: 0

9:59pm Tue 15 May 12

Andy Locks Heath says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c



hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 0

7:37am Wed 16 May 12

freemantlegirl2 says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c




hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
Oi Andy I have never 'claimed' to be an expert!! I suggest you however, try and be a little more balanced. You haven't answered teh questions about wood sustainability in the longer-term!

We have a right to our opinions and views the same as you do but do not go around calling people who have been very careful about researching for over a year and finding out cold hard facts. Your knowitall attitude comes over now as just that knowitall, prey tell us where YOU get your facts from and how you are a so called expert and we are not??!!

I expected you to be more balanced Andy instead of 'misquoting' and using our usernames when in fact i haven't even posted in this column yet!

Helius claimed that the chimney last time would not spew out any pollution etc, if that is the case then how come they have made it taller ?????? surely if they were right in the first instance there would be no need to make it taller. the whole proposal, this and the old one are full of contradictions, you've already pointed out yourself about the lack of harnassing steam. The government are chucking ROC subsidies at companies like these, our money, as Loosehead says how about investing better habits, more green energy in every household instead of throwing it at huge companies like Helius who only worry about the here and now and making money for their shareholders.

\Please explain how your arguments can change the minds of the Green party and Freinds of the Earth, who have plenty of 'experts' available!
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]Oi Andy I have never 'claimed' to be an expert!! I suggest you however, try and be a little more balanced. You haven't answered teh questions about wood sustainability in the longer-term! We have a right to our opinions and views the same as you do but do not go around calling people who have been very careful about researching for over a year and finding out cold hard facts. Your knowitall attitude comes over now as just that knowitall, prey tell us where YOU get your facts from and how you are a so called expert and we are not??!! I expected you to be more balanced Andy instead of 'misquoting' and using our usernames when in fact i haven't even posted in this column yet! Helius claimed that the chimney last time would not spew out any pollution etc, if that is the case then how come they have made it taller ?????? surely if they were right in the first instance there would be no need to make it taller. the whole proposal, this and the old one are full of contradictions, you've already pointed out yourself about the lack of harnassing steam. The government are chucking ROC subsidies at companies like these, our money, as Loosehead says how about investing better habits, more green energy in every household instead of throwing it at huge companies like Helius who only worry about the here and now and making money for their shareholders. \Please explain how your arguments can change the minds of the Green party and Freinds of the Earth, who have plenty of 'experts' available! freemantlegirl2
  • Score: 0

11:09am Wed 16 May 12

loosehead says...

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c





hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
Oi Andy I have never 'claimed' to be an expert!! I suggest you however, try and be a little more balanced. You haven't answered teh questions about wood sustainability in the longer-term!

We have a right to our opinions and views the same as you do but do not go around calling people who have been very careful about researching for over a year and finding out cold hard facts. Your knowitall attitude comes over now as just that knowitall, prey tell us where YOU get your facts from and how you are a so called expert and we are not??!!

I expected you to be more balanced Andy instead of 'misquoting' and using our usernames when in fact i haven't even posted in this column yet!

Helius claimed that the chimney last time would not spew out any pollution etc, if that is the case then how come they have made it taller ?????? surely if they were right in the first instance there would be no need to make it taller. the whole proposal, this and the old one are full of contradictions, you've already pointed out yourself about the lack of harnassing steam. The government are chucking ROC subsidies at companies like these, our money, as Loosehead says how about investing better habits, more green energy in every household instead of throwing it at huge companies like Helius who only worry about the here and now and making money for their shareholders.

\Please explain how your arguments can change the minds of the Green party and Freinds of the Earth, who have plenty of 'experts' available!
So FM2 you agree with me on solar panels for all?
I never said I was anti Helius what I've said is if the council allows it's tenants to opt for free solar panels then maybe there would be no need for Helius's Bio Mass generator.
Could you put this to Cllr Williams & post his reply?
[quote][p][bold]freemantlegirl2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]Oi Andy I have never 'claimed' to be an expert!! I suggest you however, try and be a little more balanced. You haven't answered teh questions about wood sustainability in the longer-term! We have a right to our opinions and views the same as you do but do not go around calling people who have been very careful about researching for over a year and finding out cold hard facts. Your knowitall attitude comes over now as just that knowitall, prey tell us where YOU get your facts from and how you are a so called expert and we are not??!! I expected you to be more balanced Andy instead of 'misquoting' and using our usernames when in fact i haven't even posted in this column yet! Helius claimed that the chimney last time would not spew out any pollution etc, if that is the case then how come they have made it taller ?????? surely if they were right in the first instance there would be no need to make it taller. the whole proposal, this and the old one are full of contradictions, you've already pointed out yourself about the lack of harnassing steam. The government are chucking ROC subsidies at companies like these, our money, as Loosehead says how about investing better habits, more green energy in every household instead of throwing it at huge companies like Helius who only worry about the here and now and making money for their shareholders. \Please explain how your arguments can change the minds of the Green party and Freinds of the Earth, who have plenty of 'experts' available![/p][/quote]So FM2 you agree with me on solar panels for all? I never said I was anti Helius what I've said is if the council allows it's tenants to opt for free solar panels then maybe there would be no need for Helius's Bio Mass generator. Could you put this to Cllr Williams & post his reply? loosehead
  • Score: 0

11:28am Wed 16 May 12

Andy Locks Heath says...

Hi FMG and I apologise - I was typing a hasty response on a train. Re you points - of course the gases coming out of the plant chimney are "pollution" - the gases coming out of every chimney in the world are "pollution" - that's why we have chimneys (ok and for drafting in case Southy is reading). I don't suppose for a second Helius said this chimney by some miracle was pushing out hot fresh air. And let's forget all this misguided Socialist dogma about "greed" because we live in a world (fortunately) where people are free to invest their money to make it grow, and to improve things for their families through hard work. I am sick of enterprise and innovation - whether it is Helius or Sainsburys being smeared as "greed" - it is is a stupid unproductive innacurate, facile pointless accusation. But the most interesting comment you make is how Greens can be persuaded that schemes like this are necessary. The answer is simple. We know that the big problem with wind, solar and so on is that its delivery is unpredictable or intermittent. But we all want to maximise its benefit. The only way we can have a large(ish) part of our total power entrusted to renewables is if we also provide quick reaction backup for the times when it is under-delivering, hence we need a series of quick response, diverse schemes like biomass, shale gas, biodigestion as well as Nuclear for our base load. and Green thinking should embrace these systems as the enablers that permit wind and other renewables to play a much bigger role in power supply than we could otherwise tolerate.
Hi FMG and I apologise - I was typing a hasty response on a train. Re you points - of course the gases coming out of the plant chimney are "pollution" - the gases coming out of every chimney in the world are "pollution" - that's why we have chimneys (ok and for drafting in case Southy is reading). I don't suppose for a second Helius said this chimney by some miracle was pushing out hot fresh air. And let's forget all this misguided Socialist dogma about "greed" because we live in a world (fortunately) where people are free to invest their money to make it grow, and to improve things for their families through hard work. I am sick of enterprise and innovation - whether it is Helius or Sainsburys being smeared as "greed" - it is is a stupid unproductive innacurate, facile pointless accusation. But the most interesting comment you make is how Greens can be persuaded that schemes like this are necessary. The answer is simple. We know that the big problem with wind, solar and so on is that its delivery is unpredictable or intermittent. But we all want to maximise its benefit. The only way we can have a large(ish) part of our total power entrusted to renewables is if we also provide quick reaction backup for the times when it is under-delivering, hence we need a series of quick response, diverse schemes like biomass, shale gas, biodigestion as well as Nuclear for our base load. and Green thinking should embrace these systems as the enablers that permit wind and other renewables to play a much bigger role in power supply than we could otherwise tolerate. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Wed 16 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c




hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c
yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5
hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b
syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

7:31pm Wed 16 May 12

Andy Locks Heath says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c





hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c

yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5

hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b

syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name. Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 0

8:43pm Wed 16 May 12

loosehead says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c






hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c


yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5


hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b


syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
Andy I bought Solar panels into the conversation.
The scheme at the moment is free to private homes & to me I'll be saving money on my power bills.
If every home that could have them did could the Bio Mass be smaller?
I'm not against it but we are the world leaders in wave & tidal generators & with 2-3 rivers we could be generating energy all day & night but there would be a NO campaign against these
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.[/p][/quote]Andy I bought Solar panels into the conversation. The scheme at the moment is free to private homes & to me I'll be saving money on my power bills. If every home that could have them did could the Bio Mass be smaller? I'm not against it but we are the world leaders in wave & tidal generators & with 2-3 rivers we could be generating energy all day & night but there would be a NO campaign against these loosehead
  • Score: 0

11:05pm Wed 16 May 12

phil maccavity says...

Are we the leaders in wave and tidal generators?
News to me but happy to be educated
It is interesting to see that the plans for the Mersey and Bristol Channel tidal barriers, to produce power, were both rejected as being too expensive relative to the power created.
Are we the leaders in wave and tidal generators? News to me but happy to be educated It is interesting to see that the plans for the Mersey and Bristol Channel tidal barriers, to produce power, were both rejected as being too expensive relative to the power created. phil maccavity
  • Score: 0

1:32am Thu 17 May 12

onlyjasper says...

Dear Andy from Locks Heath and Dan Soton. It's great to read both your concerns about green energy and the good arguments you make: for solar, wind and tide (where Southampton is perfectly placed) AND for the need for a permanently available and reliable energy source as back-up. These needs aren't about 'socialism' v 'enterprise' - anyone of either political preference and some informed interest recognises that these needs for our own generation and those of our children and grandchildren MUST be met.
But there are serious problems in the detail of your arguments. You refer to Helius' proposal as 'small'. It's NOT small. It's so big - a 100MGW power plant - that the decision on it will be made at national, rather than local, level.
Helius openly admits that the fuel requirement will be 300,000 tons of 'bio-fuel' annually.
NONE of this will be 'locally' - or even UK - sourced. They plan on a tiny % coming from Scandinavia, but openly admit that most of the fuel will be brought thousands of miles by container ships from the East coast of 'the Americas' (pine, certainly, from Canada and the northern USA) but ALSO hardwoods from the already threatened rain-forests of Brazil and South America. Their plans also include 'bio-fuels' from West Africa. You may be aware that the effects of converting African village communities to growing fuel crops and away from growing food produces starvation and death after one year (they usually manage to store food crops for one year but have no barn-space to do this for longer).
So - OK - you may not feel that we should be bothered about the effect on the lives and ecology of people living a very long way away from here.
But look again at your own ideas. Helius' proposals are NOT for a 'small' biomass power station. These kinds of stations have been built in several places in South-East England, and they work brilliantly, serving the needs of their local communities AND relying on guaranteed and carefully monitored LOCAL and sustainable fuels. These stations produce between 300 and 600 watts, rather than the 1,000 watts which Helius wants to get out of the Southampton scheme. We could develop such a plant here in Southampton and it would be a great benefit to the city and its surrounding region. Like other small plants, the heat which it would produce as a 'waste' product of the burning process would be piped, FREE, to local homes and businesses.
The reason why Helius has NO interest in building smaller schemes like this is simple: HUGE financial rewards for big biomass developments. Under an EU ruling, Helius knows that, as soon as they complete building their colossal power station beside Millbrook rail station, they will receive £28million each year for 10 years in EU money. They have NO previous experience of building power stations. They are currently still hoping to build a similar power station at Avonmouth, near Bristol, but they have been trying hard for several months now to get investment capital to make this possible.
Helius' application here in Southampton is strongly backed by ABP (the owners of Southampton docks and waterfront) because the power station, if permiited, will increase their own profits by £35 million each year.
For me, ABP profits are fine IF they help to increase local jobs and so improve families' lives in our impoverished city, where the construction industry has suffered more in this recession than anywhere else in the south-east. But Helius plans to use national building conglomerates for the 3 or 4 years of the construction phase, and there will be almost NO local people employed. Labour and Conservative councillors in Southampton are opposed to this development. So - Dan - if you're genuinely interested in arguing the merits and dangers of the Helius plans, get in touch with the people who represent your interests and ask them why they are all opposing Helius. And, Andy, I think you'll find similar views from your guys in Locks Heath.
Dear Andy from Locks Heath and Dan Soton. It's great to read both your concerns about green energy and the good arguments you make: for solar, wind and tide (where Southampton is perfectly placed) AND for the need for a permanently available and reliable energy source as back-up. These needs aren't about 'socialism' v 'enterprise' - anyone of either political preference and some informed interest recognises that these needs for our own generation and those of our children and grandchildren MUST be met. But there are serious problems in the detail of your arguments. You refer to Helius' proposal as 'small'. It's NOT small. It's so big - a 100MGW power plant - that the decision on it will be made at national, rather than local, level. Helius openly admits that the fuel requirement will be 300,000 tons of 'bio-fuel' annually. NONE of this will be 'locally' - or even UK - sourced. They plan on a tiny % coming from Scandinavia, but openly admit that most of the fuel will be brought thousands of miles by container ships from the East coast of 'the Americas' (pine, certainly, from Canada and the northern USA) but ALSO hardwoods from the already threatened rain-forests of Brazil and South America. Their plans also include 'bio-fuels' from West Africa. You may be aware that the effects of converting African village communities to growing fuel crops and away from growing food produces starvation and death after one year (they usually manage to store food crops for one year but have no barn-space to do this for longer). So - OK - you may not feel that we should be bothered about the effect on the lives and ecology of people living a very long way away from here. But look again at your own ideas. Helius' proposals are NOT for a 'small' biomass power station. These kinds of stations have been built in several places in South-East England, and they work brilliantly, serving the needs of their local communities AND relying on guaranteed and carefully monitored LOCAL and sustainable fuels. These stations produce between 300 and 600 watts, rather than the 1,000 watts which Helius wants to get out of the Southampton scheme. We could develop such a plant here in Southampton and it would be a great benefit to the city and its surrounding region. Like other small plants, the heat which it would produce as a 'waste' product of the burning process would be piped, FREE, to local homes and businesses. The reason why Helius has NO interest in building smaller schemes like this is simple: HUGE financial rewards for big biomass developments. Under an EU ruling, Helius knows that, as soon as they complete building their colossal power station beside Millbrook rail station, they will receive £28million each year for 10 years in EU money. They have NO previous experience of building power stations. They are currently still hoping to build a similar power station at Avonmouth, near Bristol, but they have been trying hard for several months now to get investment capital to make this possible. Helius' application here in Southampton is strongly backed by ABP (the owners of Southampton docks and waterfront) because the power station, if permiited, will increase their own profits by £35 million each year. For me, ABP profits are fine IF they help to increase local jobs and so improve families' lives in our impoverished city, where the construction industry has suffered more in this recession than anywhere else in the south-east. But Helius plans to use national building conglomerates for the 3 or 4 years of the construction phase, and there will be almost NO local people employed. Labour and Conservative councillors in Southampton are opposed to this development. So - Dan - if you're genuinely interested in arguing the merits and dangers of the Helius plans, get in touch with the people who represent your interests and ask them why they are all opposing Helius. And, Andy, I think you'll find similar views from your guys in Locks Heath. onlyjasper
  • Score: 0

6:58am Thu 17 May 12

loosehead says...

phil maccavity wrote:
Are we the leaders in wave and tidal generators?
News to me but happy to be educated
It is interesting to see that the plans for the Mersey and Bristol Channel tidal barriers, to produce power, were both rejected as being too expensive relative to the power created.
Phil the trials going on in Scotland/Shetland with the type of generators are the most advanced in the world & are British inventions.
we were the most advanced in solar & wind generating but as with this Bio-Mass Generator where ever they try to put up Wind Turbines you get the NO campaign ( too noisy for their horses) so the Likes of the Dutch have overtaken us.
Solar Power would get cheaper the more people buy the panels but people want a return straight away for their money & won't invest in them yet America has fields of them generating energy.
We were ahead in Nuclear energy but unless you can find a way to stopping another Chernobyl or another Japan I prefer the Bio Mass & Green solutions.
Phil why aren't these NO campaigners up in Lancashire protesting against Fracking?
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: Are we the leaders in wave and tidal generators? News to me but happy to be educated It is interesting to see that the plans for the Mersey and Bristol Channel tidal barriers, to produce power, were both rejected as being too expensive relative to the power created.[/p][/quote]Phil the trials going on in Scotland/Shetland with the type of generators are the most advanced in the world & are British inventions. we were the most advanced in solar & wind generating but as with this Bio-Mass Generator where ever they try to put up Wind Turbines you get the NO campaign ( too noisy for their horses) so the Likes of the Dutch have overtaken us. Solar Power would get cheaper the more people buy the panels but people want a return straight away for their money & won't invest in them yet America has fields of them generating energy. We were ahead in Nuclear energy but unless you can find a way to stopping another Chernobyl or another Japan I prefer the Bio Mass & Green solutions. Phil why aren't these NO campaigners up in Lancashire protesting against Fracking? loosehead
  • Score: 0

8:39am Thu 17 May 12

Andy Locks Heath says...

I don't recall Richard Branson knowing much about aviation when he created Vigin Atlantic either. Similarly, Helius are entrepreneurs. The people putting the plan together do not cable up power stations or wire alternators. it is an irrelevance that objectors would do well to drop for fear of looking foolish. Their first task if their plan was accepted would be to bring in a consulting engineer as maitre d'couvre. Let's move on. The jobs issues was explained under the pit village simile previously - if you bring it up again it shows you don;t understand the (fairly obvious) concept of indirect. employment. 300MW (I seem to remember this is the size) is for economies of scale. Small systems would not cover their planning costs. But 300MW is still small in the scheme of things. Didcot "A" which everyone who drives on the A34 knows well - has a coal fired generation capacity of 2500MW. Fawley down the river is 1200MW. So do you still think 300MW is big? Looshead thanks for the advice - my own unfortunate set of incompentent Nimby councillors are more obsessed with Chilling gravel extraction - but that's for another day :-)
I don't recall Richard Branson knowing much about aviation when he created Vigin Atlantic either. Similarly, Helius are entrepreneurs. The people putting the plan together do not cable up power stations or wire alternators. it is an irrelevance that objectors would do well to drop for fear of looking foolish. Their first task if their plan was accepted would be to bring in a consulting engineer as maitre d'couvre. Let's move on. The jobs issues was explained under the pit village simile previously - if you bring it up again it shows you don;t understand the (fairly obvious) concept of indirect. employment. 300MW (I seem to remember this is the size) is for economies of scale. Small systems would not cover their planning costs. But 300MW is still small in the scheme of things. Didcot "A" which everyone who drives on the A34 knows well - has a coal fired generation capacity of 2500MW. Fawley down the river is 1200MW. So do you still think 300MW is big? Looshead thanks for the advice - my own unfortunate set of incompentent Nimby councillors are more obsessed with Chilling gravel extraction - but that's for another day :-) Andy Locks Heath
  • Score: 0

10:12am Thu 17 May 12

phil maccavity says...

Interestingly I met someone recently who is involved in the power generation side, as a buyer of the product.
He has no involvement in the Helius scheme but is obviously aware of the various options available to the UK going forward.
He reckons that if the Govt see the Helius proposal as being 'in the national interest' it will proceed irrespective of local opposition. The UK Govt has signed up to ensure that 15% of power generation is produced from renewable sources from 2020 (Kyoto Treaty?) and Biomass will be part of that. Biomass production worldwide is currently around 8m tonnes but is predicted to reach 80m tonnes when fully integrated into global green energy policy
However the best way to burn biomass is co-firing with coal and this is what is happening at Drax and has been trialled at Didcot Power Station.
Helius do have to raise the money to build in Soton but there are soft loans and/or grants available from the Govt.
However on the downside there is uncertainty with the trading price of ROC's (Renewal Obligation Certificates) I have no idea how these work but they do have an influence on viability so perhaps variation in the value of these may influence viability
Another point that surprised me as that it is cheaper to transport cargoes of wood pellets in large ships from, say, Canada than it is to load it on a lorry and bring it down from Scotland
Apparently a lot of the paper production (tissues/newsprint/w
riting paper etc|) has moved to Asia so there are vast swathes of timber in Canada/USA available for biomass and the land owners are keen to sell to make up for their lost lumber revenue
Interestingly I met someone recently who is involved in the power generation side, as a buyer of the product. He has no involvement in the Helius scheme but is obviously aware of the various options available to the UK going forward. He reckons that if the Govt see the Helius proposal as being 'in the national interest' it will proceed irrespective of local opposition. The UK Govt has signed up to ensure that 15% of power generation is produced from renewable sources from 2020 (Kyoto Treaty?) and Biomass will be part of that. Biomass production worldwide is currently around 8m tonnes but is predicted to reach 80m tonnes when fully integrated into global green energy policy However the best way to burn biomass is co-firing with coal and this is what is happening at Drax and has been trialled at Didcot Power Station. Helius do have to raise the money to build in Soton but there are soft loans and/or grants available from the Govt. However on the downside there is uncertainty with the trading price of ROC's (Renewal Obligation Certificates) I have no idea how these work but they do have an influence on viability so perhaps variation in the value of these may influence viability Another point that surprised me as that it is cheaper to transport cargoes of wood pellets in large ships from, say, Canada than it is to load it on a lorry and bring it down from Scotland Apparently a lot of the paper production (tissues/newsprint/w riting paper etc|) has moved to Asia so there are vast swathes of timber in Canada/USA available for biomass and the land owners are keen to sell to make up for their lost lumber revenue phil maccavity
  • Score: 0

9:16pm Thu 17 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c






hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c


yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5


hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b


syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race .
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..
-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Vehicle-to-
grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.[/p][/quote]Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race . - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

9:45am Mon 21 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c







hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c



yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5



hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b



syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race .
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..
-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.

org/wiki/Vehicle-to-

grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
Re: typo errors........


Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race.
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..

-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Vehicle-to-
grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.[/p][/quote]Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race . - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.[/p][/quote]Re: typo errors........ Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race. - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

12:31pm Mon 21 May 12

loosehead says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c








hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c




yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5




hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b




syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race .
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..
-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.


org/wiki/Vehicle-to-


grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
Re: typo errors........


Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race.
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..

-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.

org/wiki/Vehicle-to-

grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
Dan can't someone in power push for these projects in Southampton?
Poole are looking at putting in tidal heating( extracting heat from the bay/water).
This isa being done by the council so why not our council?
There are several different projects into Tidal & flow power generators going on in the Shetland waters.
these don't need barriers & aren't harmful to fish.
we could generate electricity from these all day & all night & unless the Itchen.Test & Hamble dry up thats continuos energy & if this happened I would seriously think of changing my stance on Helius
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.[/p][/quote]Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race . - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.[/p][/quote]Re: typo errors........ Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race. - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.[/p][/quote]Dan can't someone in power push for these projects in Southampton? Poole are looking at putting in tidal heating( extracting heat from the bay/water). This isa being done by the council so why not our council? There are several different projects into Tidal & flow power generators going on in the Shetland waters. these don't need barriers & aren't harmful to fish. we could generate electricity from these all day & all night & unless the Itchen.Test & Hamble dry up thats continuos energy & if this happened I would seriously think of changing my stance on Helius loosehead
  • Score: 0

10:08pm Mon 21 May 12

Dan Soton says...

loosehead wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Dan Soton wrote:
Green hogs wash.

-
I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus.

-
Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.
Bogus green hogs wash.

-

Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ?

-

Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ...

-

biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels



-
Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020.
-
11 May 2012.
-
In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels.
-
Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne.
-

http://tinyurl.com/c









hsdgyv
This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.
Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery

-

if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?
Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.
I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius
-

AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition.
-

you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks.
-

you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ?
-

you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient.
-
Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather..

http://tinyurl.com/c





yarntg
-
Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11..

http://tinyurl.com/5





hyoq
-

you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology.
-

Ref UK Solar map:

http://tinyurl.com/b





syuzwu
-

forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash
-

Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green..

-
on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.
Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.
Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race .
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..
-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.



org/wiki/Vehicle-to-



grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
Re: typo errors........


Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?.
-

You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process..
-

I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ?
-

Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race.
-

You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals.
-

You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down..

-

1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home.
-

2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington.
-

3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations.
-

Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia.


org/wiki/Vehicle-to-


grid
-

You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest.
-

From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
Dan can't someone in power push for these projects in Southampton?
Poole are looking at putting in tidal heating( extracting heat from the bay/water).
This isa being done by the council so why not our council?
There are several different projects into Tidal & flow power generators going on in the Shetland waters.
these don't need barriers & aren't harmful to fish.
we could generate electricity from these all day & all night & unless the Itchen.Test & Hamble dry up thats continuos energy & if this happened I would seriously think of changing my stance on Helius
Loosehead.. Andy and Helius are using scare tactics, has Southampton been obligated in law to power 200,000 homes by 2017? you would think so reading Helius's proposals.
-

I've been waiting 20 years for Southampton's geothermal plan to kick in, eco low cost district heating for all, the Labour Government were asked repeatedly for funds, hot rocks 1,800 metres below us too risky, as you know a French owned company saw the opportunity and took It.
-

I don't want (unlikely as it is) Southampton council to pay a super eco Tsar wads of money to coordinate costly grandiose eco schemes, if Southampton can only find Government funds for one tidal stream generators per year that's ok as long as its cost effective, all these technologies have a time, cost per watt Moore's law, so slowly and steady as she goes seems to be a good option.
-

Poole's tidal heating scheme looks interesting, according to the BBC Sunday Gothenburg/Sweden has a sea heat exchange system up and running.
-

Lucky old Poole not having to contend with Associated British Ports/Goldman Sachs Groups plan to have a wood/garbage burning power station in every port it controls.. no matter how inefficient or unwelcome.
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Andy Locks Heath[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Green hogs wash. - I couldn't agree more, the whole project is bogus. - Helius a loss making company with a market cap of £19.22m purposes to build a £300m power station, I wouldn't give them the job demolishing it.[/p][/quote]Bogus green hogs wash. - Has loss making Helius secured a one, two or ten year supply of wood ? - Think of Fawley Oil Refinery in 10 years and read on ... - biomass power companies face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels - Biomass energy set to double in EU by 2020. - 11 May 2012. - In most countries, biomass will serve only local markets, because it is uneconomic to move it more than 150km by road, and he warned that power companies are likely to face increasing competition for wood from oil companies producing biofuels. - Wood “will become an increasingly scarce and valuable resource, in high demand not only from traditional users but also from energy companies, industrialists switching to green energy and producers of emerging bio-based products,” said FVIM’s other co-managing director Paul Delesenne. - http://tinyurl.com/c hsdgyv[/p][/quote]This is what you get when you release a bunch of amateurs loose on the internet and call it "research". I would not expect this unsubstantiated misconstrued regurgitated nonsense at GCSE level, but when it is supported by councillors rather than checked and corrected then I wonder what made some of these councillors stand for office in the first place. Almost all the content of the above letter is drivel and it is clear Richard Williams knows as much about power generation as some of the above posters understand about business.[/p][/quote]Bravo.. I award you a GCSE A* for your rhetorical frippery - if it's not too much to ask.. a few lines on why you support Helius ?[/p][/quote]Dan, I don't "support" Helius - I don't care which company gets the capital to build the plant - but I am strongly in favour of balanced guaranteed power generation. We rely on thermal for the bulk of our supply - if we want to phase out coal we need a new generation of small quick reaction thermal stations using other thermal feedstock fuels that can be used to backup The Green's precious renewable supplies when they do not deliver. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. Woodchip is by far the most sensible thermal fuel - it is fairly cheap - a lot of it is by product from other processes, a lot of it can be sourced in the UK (eventually)and we will raise domestic supply to meet demand (in 25 years). As for the location, when all those houses were built in Foundry Lane there was a coal power station up the road belching hydrocarbons nitrous oxides and sulphuric acids where Toys R Us is today at a far higher rate than this new station will do. Nobody died then and nobody will die now. Flue gases are scrubbed to remove heavy particulates and light gaseous emissions do not pollute the immediate neighbourhood as anyone with eyes in their head should know without needing to be told. The location in a port is ideal for initial import of fuel stock and road and rail links for future domestic supplies. The plant will produce steam which I agree is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP but it will produce very little smoke and it will not pollute the immediate environment. People in East Anglia have more to worry about than those in Freemantle. I won't bore you with timber production or power generation stats but these have been misunderstood and misquoted by Freefinker, Freemantle Girl and other armchair experts.[/p][/quote]I'll make it clear, I don't care for loss making Helius - AFAIK: Helius's business plan is not unique has no defensible patents and is very much open to competition. - you say the location in Southampton's port is ideal, Helius would say we have to fully utilize this location before a competitor puts a toe in, we'll push for a 300% expansion and looking forward we'll target Pompey docks. - you say the UK will raise domestic wood supply to meet demand.. where's the brakes? are you suggesting all farming/fallow land could be coppicing wood/willow ? - you say the plant will produce steam which is a problem as it is not being used for local CHP.. I agree, just one 100m chimney stack is a problem, more so if the exhausts add too the sometimes many jet vapor trails that hang over Southampton.. good by Sun and hello my solar panels will never work at their most efficient. - Ref BBC: Planes' vapour trails affect weather.. http://tinyurl.com/c yarntg - Ref BBC: David Travis first caught a glimpse of what the world could be like without Global Dimming. It happened in those chaotic days following the tragedy of 9/11.. http://tinyurl.com/5 hyoq - you say If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.. I say ever more costly biomass/gas/nuclear power Vs the only City in England that can benefit fully from advancements in solar technology. - Ref UK Solar map: http://tinyurl.com/b syuzwu - forgetting Helius and it's bogus green hogs wash - Fawley Refinery made Biofuel could play a pivotal role in turning Southampton's port Green.. - on Sky a few years ago Cunard's Queen Victoria's Captain boasted that the Queen Vic could power a City.. I say better if that floating City is powered by Southampton/Fawley made Biofuel.[/p][/quote]Your point about patents is irrelevant. As far as I know supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent either. You just deliver a needed commodity - the method of creation does not need to be unique or patented. 2) If you want know about UK timber production capability (as opposed to current supply) you need to understand rates of replenishment. A hectare of sitka spruce has a yield class of 10 to 14 (cubic metres per hectare per year). We currently have 640k hectares of spruce, so our capability in sitka spruce alone equals the actual total UK timber production. Add in the other main tree crops and our aggregate yield class is around 15-20million cu metres. Production is not the issue as I have said on here before. It is cost. If Scandinavia remains cheaper then woodchip will come from Scandinavia. it is not about domestic capacity. 3) I don't know which city you think is the only one that can benefit from solar technology, but where does this "city" get its power when the sun goes down? And where does its power come from on a cold dull winters day when panel yields fall to under 1% of their supposed capacity? If you use a solar map as a basis of your power ideas that is tantamount to saying you don't know the first thing about power supply and you haven't thought very hard about it. What good does average sunshine do you when you are stood in the ICU of a maternity ward and the incubators all switch off because the sun goes in? What are you going to do then - set fire to your map? pray? Or perhaps hope that someone had the sense to build a power station somewhere to ensure the power stays on? Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel - do you assume just because it has a lot of chimneys it can just switch processes at the drop of a hat? And anyway I thought you didn't like chimneys - we'd better close Fawley down too - there's dozens of them. At least have the self awareness to realise you are just pulling pointless nonsensical ideas out of thin air without giving them any thought at all - I don't want to ridicule your post but your level of understanding is giving other opponents a bad name.[/p][/quote]Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grown or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race . - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death. already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton unique two tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more,as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if no all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Pompey over to the the Isle Of White and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over next decade factor in India , tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste ,I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.[/p][/quote]Re: typo errors........ Reply in order of priority.. over the next few years what's best for Southampton?. - You say Fawley refinery is not geared up to make biofuel.. in some ways Fawley is geared up, eco sustainable algae and seaweed biofuels in the raw are not too dissimilar from crude oil, Fawley doesn't have grow or ferment them just process.. - I suggest Councillor Richard Williams skedaddles over to the Fawley refinery and asks what's the sustainable biofuel plan? his next step should be Southampton's Cruise and Container Shipping Companies, again what's the sustainable biofuel plan ? - Tens of thousands of jobs could be at risk if Southampton gets left behind in the biofuel race. - You say woodchip will come from Scandinavia.. woodchip is made out of sawmill sawdust and waste that's why it's so cheap, the cost will skyrocket once you start using good quality (as you suggest ) Scandinavian timber, if we're lucky Russia will provide all the low grade wood we need, bit like charging down the valley of death, already Russia have a gas boot at our throats all they need is a wooden boot targeting are vitals. - You say where does this "City" get its power when the sun goes down.. - 1) Only my own Idea, Southampton's Solar power is used to compress air, think of the giant Gasometers at Northam, at sundown the stored compressed air drives electrical generators on demand, alternatively off grid smaller compressors in evey Solar powered home. - 2) Only my own Idea, Southampton's unique double high/low water tides could power the most of Hampshire probably more, as far as I can see only one downside, Southampton could lose some if not all it's Cruise and Container Ships, think of the Severn Barrage but bigger, tidal stream generators from Southampton to Pompey over to the the Isle Of Wight and back from the Isle Of Wight to Lymington. - 3) Excellent but not my Idea, "The Smart Grid" Southampton's Solar panels charge up plug-in electric Cars, the Cars effectively becoming small renewable energy power stations. - Ref Wikipedia Vehicle-to-grid: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Vehicle-to- grid - You say supplying water or delivering milk doesn't have a patent.. ha-ha you jest, as far as I'm concerned the only thing that will save Helius's business plan is being unique with defensible patents and if you like being better than all the rest. - From nowhere China (2009) has surpassed the US as the world's largest energy consumer, over the next decade factor in India, tiny loss making Helius requires 800,000 tonnes of (if we're lucky from Russia ) woodchip a year, they say they will not use domestic or hospital waste , I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent, in my opinion Helius's will be crushed within 10 years if it doesn't use Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.[/p][/quote]Dan can't someone in power push for these projects in Southampton? Poole are looking at putting in tidal heating( extracting heat from the bay/water). This isa being done by the council so why not our council? There are several different projects into Tidal & flow power generators going on in the Shetland waters. these don't need barriers & aren't harmful to fish. we could generate electricity from these all day & all night & unless the Itchen.Test & Hamble dry up thats continuos energy & if this happened I would seriously think of changing my stance on Helius[/p][/quote]Loosehead.. Andy and Helius are using scare tactics, has Southampton been obligated in law to power 200,000 homes by 2017? you would think so reading Helius's proposals. - I've been waiting 20 years for Southampton's geothermal plan to kick in, eco low cost district heating for all, the Labour Government were asked repeatedly for funds, hot rocks 1,800 metres below us too risky, as you know a French owned company saw the opportunity and took It. - I don't want (unlikely as it is) Southampton council to pay a super eco Tsar wads of money to coordinate costly grandiose eco schemes, if Southampton can only find Government funds for one tidal stream generators per year that's ok as long as its cost effective, all these technologies have a time, cost per watt Moore's law, so slowly and steady as she goes seems to be a good option. - Poole's tidal heating scheme looks interesting, according to the BBC Sunday Gothenburg/Sweden has a sea heat exchange system up and running. - Lucky old Poole not having to contend with Associated British Ports/Goldman Sachs Groups plan to have a wood/garbage burning power station in every port it controls.. no matter how inefficient or unwelcome. Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

10:45am Fri 25 May 12

Dan Soton says...

Re: Helius say they will not use domestic or hospital waste, I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent.

-

I hope not but.. I might rue the day I bad mouthed Helius burning Southampton's stinky smoky garbage.
-

I'm no scientist but.. think of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, this March 2012 controls on eating Welsh/Cumbria sheep were lifted.
-

Ref: BBC.. http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-wales-17472
698
-

Associated British Ports Southampton/Hull/Imm
ingham are importing biomass fuel/wood from Russia and the Baltic States, Finland, and Sweden.
-

which forests were hit the hardest by Chernobyl's nuclear fallout?.. Russia and the Baltic States, Finland, and Sweden.
-

See YouTube video of radiation fallout plot over Europe during Chernobyl incident.

-

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=MU4_bJT8W
3Y
Re: Helius say they will not use domestic or hospital waste, I'd like to see that binding (go to jail) in any planning consent. - I hope not but.. I might rue the day I bad mouthed Helius burning Southampton's stinky smoky garbage. - I'm no scientist but.. think of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, this March 2012 controls on eating Welsh/Cumbria sheep were lifted. - Ref: BBC.. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-wales-17472 698 - Associated British Ports Southampton/Hull/Imm ingham are importing biomass fuel/wood from Russia and the Baltic States, Finland, and Sweden. - which forests were hit the hardest by Chernobyl's nuclear fallout?.. Russia and the Baltic States, Finland, and Sweden. - See YouTube video of radiation fallout plot over Europe during Chernobyl incident. - http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=MU4_bJT8W 3Y Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

11:10pm Fri 1 Jun 12

Dan Soton says...

Andy Locks Heath says.. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.
-

Andy, as solar cell/wind/tidal conversion efficiency (eco moore's law) improves all you need is storage.. be it kinetic energy flywheels, compressed air, a modern day or old Baghdad battery.

-


Germany sets weekend record for solar power.

May 30, 2012 by Nancy Owano.

(Phys.org) -- Solar power plants in Germany have set a new record. “Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," said Norbert Allnoch, Germany’s director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster. The plants peaked at 22 gigawatts of output for a few hours over the weekend, on Friday and Saturday. The numbers are important in that they yielded almost half the country's energy mid-day electricity needs.
-

The 22 gigawatts is up from 14 GW a year ago. Also, this 22 gigawatts of output is equal to about 20 nuclear plants.

http://tinyurl.com/c
4vqylf
Andy Locks Heath says.. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. - Andy, as solar cell/wind/tidal conversion efficiency (eco moore's law) improves all you need is storage.. be it kinetic energy flywheels, compressed air, a modern day or old Baghdad battery. - Germany sets weekend record for solar power. May 30, 2012 by Nancy Owano. (Phys.org) -- Solar power plants in Germany have set a new record. “Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," said Norbert Allnoch, Germany’s director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster. The plants peaked at 22 gigawatts of output for a few hours over the weekend, on Friday and Saturday. The numbers are important in that they yielded almost half the country's energy mid-day electricity needs. - The 22 gigawatts is up from 14 GW a year ago. Also, this 22 gigawatts of output is equal to about 20 nuclear plants. http://tinyurl.com/c 4vqylf Dan Soton
  • Score: 0

7:37am Sat 2 Jun 12

loosehead says...

Dan Soton wrote:
Andy Locks Heath says.. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear.
-

Andy, as solar cell/wind/tidal conversion efficiency (eco moore's law) improves all you need is storage.. be it kinetic energy flywheels, compressed air, a modern day or old Baghdad battery.

-


Germany sets weekend record for solar power.

May 30, 2012 by Nancy Owano.

(Phys.org) -- Solar power plants in Germany have set a new record. “Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," said Norbert Allnoch, Germany’s director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster. The plants peaked at 22 gigawatts of output for a few hours over the weekend, on Friday and Saturday. The numbers are important in that they yielded almost half the country's energy mid-day electricity needs.
-

The 22 gigawatts is up from 14 GW a year ago. Also, this 22 gigawatts of output is equal to about 20 nuclear plants.

http://tinyurl.com/c

4vqylf
If totally Green Energy can become more efficient it would be great.
Tidal & Wave power could give us Energy all day & night & unless all the rivers & seas dry up we'll have a source of power.
But look at what happens when a tidal Generator is proposed?
River Severn has a once yearly Rip Tide this stopped the Severn Barrier being built because of the objections by surfers?
[quote][p][bold]Dan Soton[/bold] wrote: Andy Locks Heath says.. If you want wave wind and sun you must also have biomass, gas and nuclear. - Andy, as solar cell/wind/tidal conversion efficiency (eco moore's law) improves all you need is storage.. be it kinetic energy flywheels, compressed air, a modern day or old Baghdad battery. - Germany sets weekend record for solar power. May 30, 2012 by Nancy Owano. (Phys.org) -- Solar power plants in Germany have set a new record. “Never before anywhere has a country produced as much photovoltaic electricity," said Norbert Allnoch, Germany’s director of the Institute of the Renewable Energy Industry in Muenster. The plants peaked at 22 gigawatts of output for a few hours over the weekend, on Friday and Saturday. The numbers are important in that they yielded almost half the country's energy mid-day electricity needs. - The 22 gigawatts is up from 14 GW a year ago. Also, this 22 gigawatts of output is equal to about 20 nuclear plants. http://tinyurl.com/c 4vqylf[/p][/quote]If totally Green Energy can become more efficient it would be great. Tidal & Wave power could give us Energy all day & night & unless all the rivers & seas dry up we'll have a source of power. But look at what happens when a tidal Generator is proposed? River Severn has a once yearly Rip Tide this stopped the Severn Barrier being built because of the objections by surfers? loosehead
  • Score: 0

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