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Studying Southampton City Council's proposal to buy Saints' ground


IT FIRST emerged back in February as an ambitious vision dreamed up by the largest Saints supporters group. However, the Saints Trust plan for the local authority to buy St Mary’s Stadium and then lease it back to the club was barely given any serious consideration.

At the time it seemed so far-fetched that neither Saints nor Southampton City Council would comment on the proposal, while even Saints Trust member Alan Whitehead MP said taxpayers’ money could be spent on “better things”.

Well it seems two months is a long time in football, as the council’s top finance officers this week began poring over Saints’ accounts to see if the idea could become reality.

Even Mr Whitehead put his name to a Labour statement calling for cross-party talks to see what could be done to help save the ailing club.

If the numbers show it to be a potential revenue earner, and no other buyer for the club and ground emerges in the next few weeks, there is a distinct possibility that St Mary’s will become a community stadium.

Councillor Royston Smith, Cabinet member for economic development, yesterday said he would first talk to other local authorities about their experience of stadium ownership before making any decision.

“If it looks like there is some mileage in proceeding then I think we will need to speak very quickly to those who have done it before and see what experiences they’ve had,” Cllr Smith said.

Fans have cited Hull City’s Kingston Communication Stadium, which was bought, built and continues to be owned by the local council, as a model for parties to look at.

When the stadium opened in 2002 the city council, acting essentially as a landlord, granted a 50-year lease to a stadium management company to deal with the day-to-day operation and maintenance of the ground.

The football club controls the management company, while the city’s rugby league side are tenants in the ground, which is also home to a learning zone, library and multi-use sports facility.

Although the council is entitled to a share of profits from the stadium, this amounted to just £15,000 in the 2005/6 financial year – a poor return considering the council’s £45m investment.

The arrangement might seem straightforward, but the events that led to its creation are vastly different from Southampton’s situation.

Construction was funded thanks to a huge windfall the council got from selling shares in the city’s own telephone company, after which the stadium is named.

Meanwhile, Southampton City Council would most likely have to take out a loan to fund the purchase of St Mary’s, believed to be about £10m.

“What happened at Kingston Communications Stadium is a different thing entirely and the ones that I am familiar with all have different sets of circumstances,” Cllr Smith said.

In fact there are very few modern precedents for the city council to follow.

Perhaps the best example is that of Exeter City, who went into administration in the mid- 90s and was forced to sell St James’ Park to a private developer for £650,000. With the team’s future in doubt, the local council stepped in two years later to buy the ground back off the developers and lease it to the club.

Another example to be looked at is that of Wolverhampton Wanderers. The club was only saved from folding at the start of the 1986 season, when Wolverhamp-ton City Council bought Molineux Stadium for £1.12m, along with the surrounding land.

Private developers also teamed up with Asda to pay off the club’s outstanding debt – on the agreement that it would get planning to build a superstore next door.

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Four years later Sir Jack Hayward took over the club and stadium and developed it into what was at the time one of the biggest football stadiums in England.

While it is unknown how long the city council would remain landlords at St Mary’s, it’s likely a stadium management company would be created to look after operation and maintenance.

“The city council principally don’t think we should be running things like leisure unless we have to and this is absolutely no different to that, so we would not want to run this in-house ourselves,” Cllr Smith said.

Given the Saints woeful financial situation, rent would probably be linked to match day attendance rather than a flat annual landlord/tenant fee.

The council is also investigating how it could make greater use of the stadium for conferencing facilities and as a venue for lucrative concerts.

Possible ventures could also see the car park turned into a multi-storey development and an expansion of the city’s CCTV operation.

The decision will come down to whether it stacks up financially for the taxpayer, but ultimately the council still sees itself as a last resort. Cllr Smith added: “We are not entering into a bidding war and we are not looking to outbid anyone, the ideal solution for the club is that someone buys the club and the stadium together and secures the financial and playing future of the club with their own investment.”


Comments(26)

saintsno1fan says...
10:27am Sun 19 Apr 09

My personal choice is I do not want the city council to buy the Stadium, the same as I do not want the fans to buy the club. The club needs to be run as a football club and the fact it has been run as a business is the main reason why this club is in this sorry state in the first place! if the city council or the fans buy either it will be run as a business and there will be no financial input to the scale that the club so desparately needs?

Martin Wellbourne says...
10:40am Sun 19 Apr 09

Although the report is clear that Hull is different this comment is telling:-

"Although the council is entitled to a share of profits from the stadium, this amounted to just £15,000 in the 2005/6 financial year – a poor return considering the council’s £45m investment"

That is no return at all - in fact it is a massive loss on that investment. Expect our Council to make an even poorer investment decision.

Our "community stadium" can only handle one sport - football. That simply isn't community enough.

The Council must not be allowed to get involved with the running of the private sector - it has a poor record of managing its own house.

Tobeblunt says...
11:13am Sun 19 Apr 09

i find it strange why the council persists in wasting money when every year they are forced to make service cuts and increase our taxes.

Acts like this bring no suprise as to how we entered into a resession in the first place.

Andy Locks Heath says...
11:20am Sun 19 Apr 09

"A stadium for the people"? What kind of meaningless phrase is that? Who else is it for - orangutangs? Will "the people" get in for free if the debt is taken on by the council? Of course not - the council have to pay the mortgage bills just as the PLC did. What is the point of this 1984-style newspeak?
Professional football clubs are businesses now whether we like it or not and the best that loyal fans can hope for is to suffer the indignity of becoming the irrelevant ego-boosting playthings of transient biillionaire oligarchs. Be careful what you wish for, Saintsno1fan.

Stubs says...
11:26am Sun 19 Apr 09

The council is going to waste more money. They are so Brainless in that civic centre.

Condor Man says...
12:30pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Stubs wrote:
The council is going to waste more money. They are so Brainless in that civic centre.
that's rich coming from someone living in Eastleigh and all their misadventures.

NPC says...
1:32pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Why should we be made to pay taxes for them!

farehamdave says...
2:43pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Why should we!!!
I'm moving clubs...i will buy my season ticket at fratton park next season... bye saints

dannyfloyd says...
4:24pm Sun 19 Apr 09

norwich lost...

Paramjit Bahia says...
4:42pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Although this 'Council' is champion when it comes to delivering proper services, which it is supposed to do, it is absolutely brilliant at wasting money of schemes worked out on the back of a postage stamp. Few million pounds were wasted on buying old Tyrell & Green building. The Leader of the Council at that time (John Arnold) had dreamed up that it could straight away be sold to the Institute (Now Southampton Solent University) and profit will be made. But many years later now the same Council is thinking of wasting even more money on demolishing the same white elephant. Story with the football stadium will also be very similar if not exactly the same.

If our Councillors and MP-s are keen on playing Gods for Saints, let them put the money they are receiving from the tax payers in this adventurous pot first. Will they do it?

I feel sorry for the Saints fans, but now writing is on the wall that they could go down, so the Council should give up its, almost, yearly idea of closing some of the play grounds because they are not used (False excuse) because by the look of it that is all Saints will be requiring.

goard says...
5:56pm Sun 19 Apr 09

No, means No! Councils - put money in a family orientated venture - our Mayflower Park and the Pier.

goard

robhythe says...
6:14pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Its good that there arnt many against the idea! Just the same few !

Invidia says...
8:18pm Sun 19 Apr 09

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Although this 'Council' is champion when it comes to delivering proper services, which it is supposed to do, it is absolutely brilliant at wasting money of schemes worked out on the back of a postage stamp. Few million pounds were wasted on buying old Tyrell & Green building. The Leader of the Council at that time (John Arnold) had dreamed up that it could straight away be sold to the Institute (Now Southampton Solent University) and profit will be made. But many years later now the same Council is thinking of wasting even more money on demolishing the same white elephant. Story with the football stadium will also be very similar if not exactly the same. If our Councillors and MP-s are keen on playing Gods for Saints, let them put the money they are receiving from the tax payers in this adventurous pot first. Will they do it? I feel sorry for the Saints fans, but now writing is on the wall that they could go down, so the Council should give up its, almost, yearly idea of closing some of the play grounds because they are not used (False excuse) because by the look of it that is all Saints will be requiring.
What on earth has your comments got to do with SFC, you have gone off on so many different tangents it is almost impossible to understand what you are trying to say, as for what the article is about, it could be a very good investment for SCC but I fear a bad business for SFC, for the very reasons I posted earlier

Ian24 says...
8:55pm Sun 19 Apr 09

I would have thought as a commercial venture the banks wont lend to the council unless they can tie down a deal which has at least a 5 year lease.

How would any bank even consider a “day to day rent” to protect their money.

H0ckeyd says...
11:58pm Sun 19 Apr 09

I'm getting a bit sick of reading these nay-sayers.....who do they think tried to get shot of the old gasworks land in St. Mary's on the cheap to begin with?...the same people who have copious offices and parking space at the ground at the moment...look for the S.C.C marked parking spaces...there are loads....so it seems perfectly reasonable for the council to buy it at a knock-down rate...or maybe they should keep hundreds of paintings locked away in the vaults (I've seen them) where nobody ever gets to look which are worth millions....The football club gives enjoyment (and at this moment pain) to THOUSANDS of people in this city and the stadium can be used for so many things, money-making things, profit earning things...but go on, keep your heads in the sand, let the money be wasted on disused items like the fountains cafe or Mayflower par which is full of drunks and druggies at the best of times....great example

ray the turk says...
1:54am Mon 20 Apr 09

farehamdave wrote:
Why should we!!! I'm moving clubs...i will buy my season ticket at fratton park next season... bye saints
Good bye Fareham Dave.. None so pure.. None so brave!!
Enjoy your new club, just as well.. Hold your breath .. you won't like the smell!!


MOVE-BIRD !!! very apt!!

NZsaint says...
9:55am Mon 20 Apr 09

I mooted an idea similar to this back in January, its common place in Germany - for example - and would rid the club of the most significant burden on its finances. I reckon its worth a look at, but the council would come up with significant resistence from the local community, I'm sure....

Northern Saint says...
11:29am Mon 20 Apr 09

saintsno1fan wrote:
My personal choice is I do not want the city council to buy the Stadium, the same as I do not want the fans to buy the club. The club needs to be run as a football club and the fact it has been run as a business is the main reason why this club is in this sorry state in the first place! if the city council or the fans buy either it will be run as a business and there will be no financial input to the scale that the club so desparately needs?
Most businesses don't own their own premises and pay rent to a landlord which means its predicatable and less risky as you're not left with a massively debt on your balance sheet which is pretty unattractive to a purchaser of the club.

I think the council should definitely look at this. Hull made a £15k return after all costs including funding a depreciation so in other words it pays for itself. It should also be noted that most investments are making a loss at the moment. Secondly, we aren't talking £45m to build the stadium that Hull needed so the level of investment is much lower (c.£10m). Thirdly, there is much more scope for opportunity to use SMS for concerts etc and generate additional income that don't exist with Hull. I live up in Yorkshire and there are places like Manchester and Sheffield hosting concert events whereas on the South Coast I can really only think of the BIC! The future club can always buy it back and the counci makes a bit of cash

St Retford says...
1:21pm Mon 20 Apr 09

Manchester City also rent their stadium from the council, and it seems to work quite well despite the hilarious United fans who sing "We paid for your home" and call it the "council house".

Personally, I rather like the idea of St Mary's becoming a people's stadium after the whole failed experiment with the free market capitalism of the stock exchange. It would be a sound investment for the council and would also bring the sort of security that the club needs as we spend the next however many years trying to get back to the Championsip and, one day, the Premier League.

We could do with a few years of spending within our means but re-earning the respect of the fans, so that when we do eventually kick on to the next level it will be on foundations of stone, rather than the quicksand the PLC brought to the club.

MangaFace says...
4:39pm Mon 20 Apr 09

Bring back lowe

Family Man says...
5:18pm Mon 20 Apr 09

What is a "stadium for the people"? Whilst Saints fans are a loyal group, they hardly constitute anything more than a minority of the Southampton population. And the use of a stadium that is largely restricted to 23 home games a year hardly constitutes fair use. Yes there are occasional reserves games, and an IT suite but there are an awful lot of days when the stadium is unused. I have maintained for some considerable time that what Southampton needs is a flexible multi-purpose venue for other sports, exhibitions, concerts, and NOT JUST football! And given that next year Saints are likely to be a third division side, and as it appears increasingly likely, they will be docked 15-20 points next season, rendering them a fourth divsion team the year after, it is going to be a very long time indeed before they can ever envisage being a premiership team with the income (and attendance) to match. So please please make it truly a stadium for all the people, not just football fans.

coyote ugly says...
8:07pm Mon 20 Apr 09

we dont' need supporters like you anyway... COYR

coyote ugly says...
8:08pm Mon 20 Apr 09

farehamdave wrote:
Why should we!!! I'm moving clubs...i will buy my season ticket at fratton park next season... bye saints
we don't need supporters like you anyway p****y scum are welcome to you !

coyote ugly says...
8:11pm Mon 20 Apr 09

farehamdave wrote:
Why should we!!! I'm moving clubs...i will buy my season ticket at fratton park next season... bye saints
loser :)

security word weak... nuf said

Beardy Rich says...
3:52pm Tue 21 Apr 09

I don't suppose for one minute that speedway could make a return to So'ton! St Marys is big enough and why not stop there... lets have some athletics and greyhound racing too. Something for ALL the family to enjoy - not just football!

soulsaint says...
4:27pm Wed 22 Apr 09

This is absolutely crucial to the future and long term welfare of the club. As one of the people involved and who will be at the meeting with local politicians on Thursday night, may I heartily commend all of the parties and in particular Alan Whitehead MP for having the courage and vision to consider this proposal. We will be presenting detailed plans to the politicians on Thursday and hopefully the idea will begin to become a reality. Those who believe this club's future will be saved by generous millionaires queuing up to throw away their cash obn a mountain of debt are sadly mistaken if not deluded.
Manchester
City are the perfect example as somebody has shown. What people also need to realise is that it was Southampton City Cpouncil who first identified and proposed the St Marys development not Rupert Lowe. It was a council driven project and it makes perfect sense to turn it into a public amenity.


Nineteen inquiries to buy the Saints Could St Mary's be a stadium for the people?

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