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Plans for Mayflower Park include new waterfront arena for Southampton


A STATE-OF-THE-ART 10,000-seat arena – similar in scale to the Echo Arena Liverpool – is the centrepiece of a grand new vision to redevelop Southampton’s Royal Pier and Mayflower Park. International A-list music acts, indoor sport events and temporary exhibitions could all be hosted at the stunning waterfront venue.

A convention centre, casino and observation tower with views over the docks could also be incorporated in the new masterplan, which won’t be unveiled to the public until the Southampton Boat Show in September.

Under early plans presented to Southampton City Council, the arena will be at the heart of a development that could also feature restaurants, shops and some housing.

City council bosses are due to meet with arena operators this week to discuss the financial viability of building the south coast’s premier arena on the prestigious site.

Councillor Royston Smith, Cabinet member for economic development, said the new scheme was a “massive improvement” on any of the previous plans for the site, which were dominated by thousands of flats.

He said arenas – once considered expensive white elephants – were coming back into vogue and there was an opportunity for Southampton to capitalise.

“I want to make sure Southampton is a destination. There is no point redeveloping the waterfront if it does not give people a reason to visit it,” he said.

“We are not going to be a Wembley Arena or The O2, but we could realistically attract an audience of eight, nine or ten thousand given the right events.”

The plans are being drawn up by Scottish-based developers Kilmartin, who were last July awarded an 18-month exclusivity contract to create a masterplan for the waterfront around Royal Pier and Mayflower Park.

Coming to Southampton's waterfront..?

Beyonce

Kilmartin chairman Colin Banyard said The O2 in London and the 11,000-capacity Echo Arena Liverpool – where Beyonce is playing next month – demonstrated that versatile multi-purpose venues could be highly successful.

“The arrival of The O2 set a new precedent with regards to how arenas can be functioned and operated in a profitable way. Secondly, if you look on the south coast there is no real event location,” he said.

Mr Banyard added that the arena would be a major landmark and would not simply be a functional “tin shed”.

“We are not currently working with architects on design, as we are firstly looking at uses and viability so that we can give the architects a firm brief as to what we are looking for,” he said.

However, the Daily Echo understands early concept designs shown to the council have been described as “stunning” and have the potential to be an iconic building to rival the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao.

Land reclamation to extend Mayflower Park has been ruled out as too expensive given the £20m price tag, but both Kilmartin and the council are keen for the development to extend out into the water.

Coming to Southampton's waterfront..?

Echo Arena Liverpool, which the Southampton arena could rival in capacity.

They are considering using pontoon-like structures that could either be used as walkways for the public or even hold floating structures. While the masterplan is due to unveiled this year, it’s unlikely construction would start before 2012 given the current economic climate and the sheer scale of the multi-million-pound scheme.

Restaurateur Kuti Miah’s Thai eatery in the Royal Pavilion will remain unaffected and it is hoped the proposed 180ft tribute to the spitfire will also be incorporated at Town Quay.

Previous plans for at least 1,000 flats were rejected by docks owner ABP in 2007, but any housing in the new scheme is likely to be set away from ferry and port operations.

Comments(44)

Dazzz says...
9:30am Sun 10 May 09

zzzzzzzzzzzz here we go again...... more if, whats, maybe's and dreams

Ian24 says...
9:36am Sun 10 May 09

This seems a good idea but it will directly compete with the St Marys Stadium if the new opperator wants to use the stadium for events to bring in income as the football numbers will not be enough alone.
This may be bad news released now as the potential buyers need and income on the stadium.
The council may then resist granting planning for such events at St Marys pushing the income for the club down.

OSPREYSAINT says...
9:38am Sun 10 May 09

Spot on Dazzz, another pipe dream that will be badly planned massively over budgeted, another drain on the taxpayers and another unfinished, unused eyesore, and where is the Ice Rink going? Will it see the end of the Boat Show as the available area is getting smaller?

Charlie George's Lawnmower says...
9:49am Sun 10 May 09

Moan Moan Moan, let's do nothing in Southampton but moan and then everyone will be happy (moaning about how nothing is done in the city)

Bright Spark says...
10:17am Sun 10 May 09

Mayflower Park now looks awful but it doesn't need a concert arena. The part where the children's play area used to be now looks like a ploughed field, a few strips of turf would brighten that area up no end, and it wouldn't cost £20m. Knock those horrible 1950's shelters down and bring back the putting green as well. A simple wooden pontoon for the public to walk out onto Southampton Water wouldn't take a lot of effort or space. All this for a few thousand pound.

Bartonian says...
10:54am Sun 10 May 09

Some people may moan but they have every right to, considering the number of propsed schemes that have come and gone. It wasn't long ago when the Echo reporeted a proposed Spitfire tower for this area and that seems to have vanished into thin air. Not to mention, a Titanic museum, a tower block in Northam, a huge hotel in Ocean Village, new buildings on the old Tyrell and Green site. This will be like Bird Flu. One week, everyone will be talking about it and the next, nothing. This will probably be wrapped up in tomorrow's fish and chips for all I car. Let's have a proper consultationm, and restore the pier and surrounding area to something that everyone can enjoy and be proud of.

Security word: yeah-when

Sounds very fitting, don't you think?

Southampton Heart says...
11:02am Sun 10 May 09

Looks & sounds great....it's what Southampton needs in the Mayflower park. The location for this arena is SPOT ON. Southampton has a lot to offer...unfortunatel
y some people seem to take it for granted and under-estimate how beautiful the City IS. There are far worse places to live in the UK...please just be grateful. Thanks.

Condor Man says...
11:54am Sun 10 May 09

Town Quay has been a failed development and it would be good to have something that actually brought money into the city for a change. Red Funnel could easily move into the docks as could the Hythe Ferry. Mayflower Park has been a missed opportunity for years. Bring it on.

soton1980 says...
12:27pm Sun 10 May 09

When are we actually going to see something to rival to Portsmouth's Spinnaker Tower??

This stadium idea sounds good, but like others, I do question how it would affect St Mary's stadium, which gets some revenue from live acts.


Bright Spark says...
12:36pm Sun 10 May 09

soton1980 wrote:
When are we actually going to see something to rival to Portsmouth's Spinnaker Tower?? This stadium idea sounds good, but like others, I do question how it would affect St Mary's stadium, which gets some revenue from live acts.
We've got the Tudor House?

gorf says...
12:46pm Sun 10 May 09

WOW!


southy says...
1:26pm Sun 10 May 09

Southampton Heart wrote:
Looks & sounds great....it's what Southampton needs in the Mayflower park. The location for this arena is SPOT ON. Southampton has a lot to offer...unfortunatel

y some people seem to take it for granted and under-estimate how beautiful the City IS. There are far worse places to live in the UK...please just be grateful. Thanks.
its not whats need in mayflower park, this land was giving to the people off southampton, and has rules to, ie:- the park can not be closed more than 10 days a year for maintenance work, this time period is used for southampton boat show. it can not be built on. and must remain an open space for the people off southampton to use 24/7 (the foot gates must remain open at all times apart from the 10 days a year). failure to meet those condicion will result in the land being return back to the family that owns the freehold deeds, in whitch they have condicion to meet.
i know one off the family that will have a say in this,that the land will return back to, and know she will not let any thing happen to the park has with the daughter who will take over her rule when the old lady finaly passes on.
and yes i do know the council reregistered the land, but it dont mean a thing when the orginal deeds show up, and the condictions that are tied to the deeds.

Southampton Heart says...
2:32pm Sun 10 May 09

Ooops...wasn't aware of the history and rules etc of the park. It's in a lovely location, it would be nice if it could still remain a park though....but the way it is...it's a bit tired and bland.....it needs a focal point...some interest....maybe somehing on the waters edge!....like the spitfire statue?.

fatboy says...
2:32pm Sun 10 May 09

Why does the council have a desire to build on the only bit of land we can get near the water in the city?

St Mary's is perfect for concerts so that idea is a non-starter.

Mayflower park does need improving, its the council that has marginalized it by moving the play park and making it smaller. and got rid of the pitch and putt.

put a BMX/roller rink in one corner, put a pontoon out for people to fish on and encourage people to go there!

Bright Spark says...
2:41pm Sun 10 May 09

fatboy wrote:
Why does the council have a desire to build on the only bit of land we can get near the water in the city? St Mary's is perfect for concerts so that idea is a non-starter. Mayflower park does need improving, its the council that has marginalized it by moving the play park and making it smaller. and got rid of the pitch and putt. put a BMX/roller rink in one corner, put a pontoon out for people to fish on and encourage people to go there!
I agree however, the council wont allow us grown ups to fish near the water, the health and safety brigade would say that is too dangerous and we might get wet. We used to be able to fish in the docks but that was banned 25 years ago because of one sad accident.

saintbone says...
3:20pm Sun 10 May 09

St.mary's is not good for concerts. Anyone who actually goes to concerts will know that they are all year round and St.marys is only good for the summer.

Ive always blamed the council for their lack of ambition for this city but after reading these comments I wonder if it is the people who live here that do.

Cincinnati says...
3:25pm Sun 10 May 09

For an arena like this to be successful it needs to have a permanent tenant in it that generates steady income. An ice hockey team, or a basketball team, would do that. Then you can supplement the income the teams would generate by have public skating,concerts,con
ventions,etc

D.a.v.e says...
4:15pm Sun 10 May 09

Bright Spark wrote:
soton1980 wrote: When are we actually going to see something to rival to Portsmouth's Spinnaker Tower?? This stadium idea sounds good, but like others, I do question how it would affect St Mary's stadium, which gets some revenue from live acts.
We've got the Tudor House?
and of course, IKEA

Topsy Turvy says...
4:43pm Sun 10 May 09

This is the only place left in Southampton where the public can see the sea. Yes it is a little bit tired but wouldn't cost much to tidy it up.I hope that the family that have the title deeds do not allow this development to happen.

thedeerhunter270 says...
5:52pm Sun 10 May 09

Topsy Turvy wrote:
This is the only place left in Southampton where the public can see the sea. Yes it is a little bit tired but wouldn't cost much to tidy it up.I hope that the family that have the title deeds do not allow this development to happen.
You've never been to Western Shore then.

Bright Spark says...
6:01pm Sun 10 May 09

thedeerhunter270 wrote:
Topsy Turvy wrote: This is the only place left in Southampton where the public can see the sea. Yes it is a little bit tired but wouldn't cost much to tidy it up.I hope that the family that have the title deeds do not allow this development to happen.
You've never been to Western Shore then.
It's a bit distant from the ships. The public want to be up close not 500 yards away Mr De Niro. In Portsmouth you can stand about 50 metres away from the warships as they sail past the Still and West pub, you can't get that close in Southampton Water to our liners.

Topsy Turvy says...
7:23pm Sun 10 May 09

Yes I have been to Weston shore but it is not quite so convenient by bus. A lot of older peolpe with long connections with the port enjoy many happy hours sitting in Mayflower Park then doing some shopping in the city centre.

loverboy says...
8:52pm Sun 10 May 09

Yeah would be a brilliant idea, sadly it will be like everything else, a proposal, which the Echo goes on about as if it's a done deal.
The site as it is is a sorry site, like a scrap metal yard, without the cash in the till!
It could be something modern, a modern pier, imagine that, not a copy of Victorian era places, but something modern and outstanding that will pass the test of time.
Should have been done in the boom times. May have sold all the flats that way.
It's the way to do it, make the area look slightly WOW, then add some real WOW factor.
Note to Daily Echo, my idea, so don't try some campaign that you'll try and take the credit for like the Save Our Saints ideas.

fuzzyfelt says...
9:03pm Sun 10 May 09

i suppose one day one of these great visions will come to fruition but can we have a clause to tack on a decent frontage for mayflower park and the return of our pier to public use instead of a takeaway ?

Ben Doone says...
9:51am Mon 11 May 09

southy wrote:
Southampton Heart wrote: Looks & sounds great....it's what Southampton needs in the Mayflower park. The location for this arena is SPOT ON. Southampton has a lot to offer...unfortunatel y some people seem to take it for granted and under-estimate how beautiful the City IS. There are far worse places to live in the UK...please just be grateful. Thanks.
its not whats need in mayflower park, this land was giving to the people off southampton, and has rules to, ie:- the park can not be closed more than 10 days a year for maintenance work, this time period is used for southampton boat show. it can not be built on. and must remain an open space for the people off southampton to use 24/7 (the foot gates must remain open at all times apart from the 10 days a year). failure to meet those condicion will result in the land being return back to the family that owns the freehold deeds, in whitch they have condicion to meet. i know one off the family that will have a say in this,that the land will return back to, and know she will not let any thing happen to the park has with the daughter who will take over her rule when the old lady finaly passes on. and yes i do know the council reregistered the land, but it dont mean a thing when the orginal deeds show up, and the condictions that are tied to the deeds.
Southy, as usual you have part of the story. The reclaimed land that made Mayflower Park and the Western Docks was legally agreed in 1928.The reclaimed marsh lands which became the New or, latterly, Western Docks area amounted to 474 acres and the foreshore was an additional 68 acres. All this was purchased by the Southern Railway on a FREEHOLD basis from Marianne Vaudrey Barker-Mill, the Rev Cyril Edwards and William Simons for the princely sum of £45,004!!
The marshland to the east of the area bounded by Four Post Creek and Shirley Outlet and running up to the old Town Walls (which eventually allowed for the creation of the Pirelli Factory and Mayflower Park and, of course,today's West Quay area) was acquired by the Aldermen and Burgesses of Southampton on 13th December 1922 (from Mr R Pickett and others)and eventually converted into a Deed of Exchange between His Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the War Dept and the Mayor, Aldermen and Burgesses of the County Borough of Southampton betwwen 19th Ocober 1927 and 4th January 1928.
Eventually all the land was transferred into the ownership of the Town/City Council and they remain landlords to all the property around West Quay. Mayflower Park,as you rightly say, does has a covenant on the amount of days it can be closed. However that is not to say the location cannot be altered slightly or improved for the general good of the local community.
The City Council will be well awrae of their responsibilities here.
To say the land can be given back to the previous owner is absolute nonsense. The Freehold arrangements are quite clear.
Incidentally the Arbitrator involved in valuing the land for sale was John Wallis, a Chartered Surveyor of 2 Cooper St, Manchester. This might interest a previous poster, 'Southampton Heart'.
Finally, from a distant perspective, Soton Residents should be v grateful for the many benefits they have. Embrace the positives, forget the negatives.
I truly hope some scheme to improve the waterfront area goes thro. However, in today's world, it will be a real challenge to raise the capital.
Security word - veryrisk (quite apt!!)

teh says...
10:14am Mon 11 May 09

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Spot on Dazzz, another pipe dream that will be badly planned massively over budgeted, another drain on the taxpayers and another unfinished, unused eyesore, and where is the Ice Rink going? Will it see the end of the Boat Show as the available area is getting smaller?
**** right where is the ice rink going? Shove it in there, simple.

Tommy News says...
10:24am Mon 11 May 09

It is time we talked up the city. The moaners can all leave and go to Portsmouth.

I first moved here nearly 20 years ago. Massive investment has gone into the city. There are still many more opportunities to develop, so lets promote these to the worlds best developers.

I am proud of my home city with its beautiful parks and great shopping/leisure activites. Lets look forward and be positive for a change!

veracity says...
11:00am Mon 11 May 09

Tommy
well done for mentioning the positives.
when i was young there was v little to do in southmpton. it is much more vibrant now.
Development of the Pier/mayflower pk (but retaining/enhancing public acess) would be great
also if fishermen can be accommodated also great, but in a segregated area.
I once saw a child with a fish hook in its head having been speared by someone casting their rod on a public pier so there are health & safety issues to consider.

veracity says...
11:05am Mon 11 May 09

Tommy
well done for mentioning the positives.
when i was young there was v little to do in southmpton. it is much more vibrant now.
Development of the Pier/mayflower pk (but retaining/enhancing public acess) would be great
also if fishermen can be accommodated also great, but in a segregated area.
I once saw a child with a fish hook in its head having been speared by someone casting their rod on a public pier so there are health & safety issues to consider.

MikeMike says...
11:49am Mon 11 May 09

Good idea but it will never happen, just like the other stuff they wanted to bring to Southampton - which never happened. If its put in Mayflower park, can you imagine the roads as people travel (in June say) to Isle of wight festival, Ikea, Town, to go on a cruise, and to go a concert along with 9,999 other people. It should be placed near the water but in a different area!

dand_uk says...
12:43pm Mon 11 May 09

no more casinos PLEASE!

southy says...
12:57pm Mon 11 May 09

nearly right ben, but dove's boat yard owned land there to, only half was sold. the other half was kept, that part became mayflower park, there was also a lido down on the foreshore. whitch was sold up and moved to a new location. barker and mills owned the land between doves and i think his name was hauton whitch was the waste land in between the dry dock and millbrook point lane, there use to be a chapel and a monastery there who owned the land down to the water front, before the railway went though it, the chapel was pulled down some time during the WW2, the boundry walls was still there till (about a foot high). till they turned millbrook road from a mono road to a duel carriage way in the late 60's

Ben Doone says...
12:58pm Mon 11 May 09

MikeMike wrote:
Good idea but it will never happen, just like the other stuff they wanted to bring to Southampton - which never happened. If its put in Mayflower park, can you imagine the roads as people travel (in June say) to Isle of wight festival, Ikea, Town, to go on a cruise, and to go a concert along with 9,999 other people. It should be placed near the water but in a different area!
Mike
Think you will find that most Arena events are in the evening so the traffic situation should be less of a problem.
However dont bet against a Casino. (sic)
Problem is to get any commercial development off the ground you need revenue from one, other or all of housing/retail or leisure.
Of course people will be saying 'Not Again' but believe me Soton is really well placed to attract inward investment. Unfortunately other places, especially in the north receive all sorts of European and UK grants to help smooth the way.

southy says...
1:20pm Mon 11 May 09

one good place might be the old southern tv land.
traffic in southampton is a problem most it is because most traffic coming in to southampton comes in from the west, then if you look how southampton is shape (its a V shape) so all the traffic and people moving about gets push in to a smaller area and just gets smaller to move around in the deeper you go into town, and it dont take much to grind to a halt, southampton is not built or design for such high movement. summer coming you watch the traffic build up quing to get into red funnels they are quing even for the last few ferries.

Ben Doone says...
2:29pm Mon 11 May 09

southy wrote:
nearly right ben, but dove's boat yard owned land there to, only half was sold. the other half was kept, that part became mayflower park, there was also a lido down on the foreshore. whitch was sold up and moved to a new location. barker and mills owned the land between doves and i think his name was hauton whitch was the waste land in between the dry dock and millbrook point lane, there use to be a chapel and a monastery there who owned the land down to the water front, before the railway went though it, the chapel was pulled down some time during the WW2, the boundry walls was still there till (about a foot high). till they turned millbrook road from a mono road to a duel carriage way in the late 60's
We have access to copies of the land sale. No mention is made of Dove's Boat yard.
The old Isolation Hospital is shown on the plans (next to Millbrook Point)and there is reference to a tenancy of Richard Haywood Woodcock. However his 21 yr lease only covered the period from 4th Oct 1923 (at £30 a year!!)
Anyway this land was up by the Dry Dock so would have no relevance to Mayflower park

dannyfloyd says...
3:51pm Mon 11 May 09

maybe they should fix some of the roads first? mine is a disgrace... wondered what my council tax was for though... and now i know. joy.

southy says...
4:02pm Mon 11 May 09

just letting you know that there was land owned by other people in the area, and you are seeing the major part, and not the smaller land owners, people like the dove faimly.
doves use to have a public boat yard and public slipway there, plus doves use to build small wooden boats for the rishing industry and day sailers.
when the health service got nationalized, the nhs sold those 4 (free hold (the freehold was down to the water mark)) isolation ward buildings (located on the down river on millbrook point)to 4 seperate people, and the deeds use to be in the bank that was located in redbridge but got moved to a branch in shirley,the up river side off millbrook point was given to southern water for a new sewage plant they own the free hold up to tanners brook and from the railway fence to the water mark.

Ben Doone says...
5:09pm Mon 11 May 09

Still dont know what this has to do with Mayflower Park


southy says...
5:36pm Mon 11 May 09

well like i said there was more land owners apart from the 2 big ones, not all sold up, like doves they sold one half, and gave the other part to the people off southampton with condictions tied to it, like mansel park in redbridge, the same sort off thing.

Ben Doone says...
6:27pm Mon 11 May 09

But your talking about land about 2 miles away from Mayflower Park so what's the relevance?
Also picking you up on an earlier comment. You say that Mayflower Park is open 24/7. Are you sure? I think both the big gates and foot gates are closed at sunset altho Kuti's may now have some arrangement to open up longer to enable their patrons to park until the Restaurant closes.
Can you nip down there tonight and check if you are allowed out in the dark?
security word late-open!!

southy says...
4:53pm Tue 12 May 09

the rule is that the foot gates must remain open 24/7,apart from 10 days in a year. there was a guy that use to take the foot gates off it hinges a long while back, when the council took him to court the council lost its case because they failed to meet the condicion to the agreement, the rules that was set to mayflower park can not be changed. its also why the council failed in there attemp to extend the number off days to close the park for the boat show. if there are gates to the park and they are lock every one has the right to remove the gates to gain access at any time.( apart from the 10 days)

southy says...
4:56pm Tue 12 May 09

the rule is that the foot gates must remain open 24/7,apart from 10 days in a year. there was a guy that use to take the foot gates off it hinges a long while back, when the council took him to court the council lost its case because they failed to meet the condicion to the agreement, the rules that was set to mayflower park can not be changed. its also why the council failed in there attemp to extend the number off days to close the park for the boat show. if there are gates to the park and they are lock every one has the right to remove the gates to gain access at any time.( apart from the 10 days)

southy says...
4:58pm Tue 12 May 09

the rule is that the foot gates must remain open 24/7,apart from 10 days in a year. there was a guy that use to take the foot gates off it hinges a long while back, when the council took him to court the council lost its case because they failed to meet the condicion to the agreement, the rules that was set to mayflower park can not be changed. its also why the council failed in there attemp to extend the number off days to close the park for the boat show. if there are gates to the park and they are lock every one has the right to remove the gates to gain access at any time.( apart from the 10 days)

southy says...
4:58pm Tue 12 May 09

the rule is that the foot gates must remain open 24/7,apart from 10 days in a year. there was a guy that use to take the foot gates off it hinges a long while back, when the council took him to court the council lost its case because they failed to meet the condicion to the agreement, the rules that was set to mayflower park can not be changed. its also why the council failed in there attemp to extend the number off days to close the park for the boat show. if there are gates to the park and they are lock every one has the right to remove the gates to gain access at any time.( apart from the 10 days)


The proposed arena for Southampton would be on a similar scale to the Echo Arena Liverpool, pictured. The proposed arena for Southampton would be on a similar scale to the Echo Arena Liverpool, pictured.

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