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Saints and Pompey fans to kept in police bubbles ahead of derby matches

Mounted police offices lead Saints fans to Fratton Park in 2004 Mounted police offices lead Saints fans to Fratton Park in 2004

FEW things unite Saints and Pompey supporters, but this season one thing seems to be doing just that.

The decision of Hampshire Constabulary and the two football clubs to force all away fans to travel to their opponents’ grounds in a ‘bubble’ has not been well received.

Travelling fans will have no choice but to travel via coach to Fratton Park in December, regardless of where they live. If they don’t travel via the especially laid-on coaches, they won’t get their match ticket.

Hampshire Constabulary say this tactic – which has already been used at matches between Cardiff, West Ham, Leeds and Swansea and the Lancashire derby between Burnley and Blackburn – presents the best way to keep fans safe and minimise the chances of disorder from those intent on causing it.

Opponents of the ‘bubble’ say it is an affront, legally dubious and another way of tarring all football fans with the same brush.

So how will it actually work?

With regards to the match in Portsmouth on December 18, all Saints fans going to the game will have to catch a coach at one of three pick-up points in Southampton.

It makes no difference if they live in Freemantle, Fratton or Falkirk – they will have to board the coach in Southampton.

These coaches will then head to the Alverstone Road area of Fratton, Portsmouth, which is a residential street right behind the away end of Fratton Park. This is what is known as a ‘sterile area’ meaning there will be no Pompey fans there and police and stewards will prevent anyone getting in or out unless they are onboard a coach.

There will be burger vans and other such concessions for fans to use.

Then, at the end of the match, the Saints fans will be put straight on the waiting coaches and taken back up the M27 and dropped off wherever they caught the coach that morning.

It is worth pointing out that it is illegal to consume alcohol on coaches and the 1pm kick off on a Sunday will mean any fans who like to meet friends for a pint or other pre-match ritual will be unable to do so.

Although unlikely to be an issue for the Fratton Park match, Hampshire police are currently looking at ways to incorporate fans who have hospitality tickets, although they make it clear they will not compromise the overall operation.

Supt. Rick Burrows, who is heading up the police operation, is keen to stress that the ‘bubble’ is an option he would rather not have to take. He said: “I would like to not have to apply the coach ‘bubble’. I would like to be able to have total fan mixture as per other sports. The tactic itself is resource intensive, but the reality is that, if we didn’t apply it, we would have policing resources spread across the city and travel routes trying to deny or respond to scenes of disorder.

“The tactic is well used by other clubs for local derby fixtures and has seen a significant reduction in scenes of disorder, and with that improving the safety of the fans and the public.”

A huge football fan, Supt. Burrows says his number one concern is trying to provide a safe environment for fans.

“I cannot compromise on denying the small groups of individuals who are intent on generating disorder the opportunity to do so. Nor can I accept that this as an acceptable spectator sport or norm of football.

It’s not – people get hurt.

“The disproportionate effect this small group can have in relation to crowd dynamics (safety) and psychology demands tactics that deny them the opportunity in the first place.”

In recent seasons, there has been an increase in the amount of trouble at Saints games.

During the 2009-10 season (which are the latest figures currently available, and covers the last time Saints and Pompey met) 50 Saints fans were arrested at football matches, within the vicinity of a ground – 24 at St Mary’s, 26 at away matches. That equates to roughly one a game, when averaged out over the season.

In the 12 months up to November 2010, 43 Saints fans were given football banning orders, taking the total number of Southampton supporters with active FBOs up to 56.

Supt. Burrows says a huge effort was made to crack down on a number of youths behind the disorder.

He said: “Targeting these youths and isolating their opportunities to create disorder – plus achieving banning orders against them – has seen a resultant decline in their activities.

“Football related offences for Southampton has now returned to a more steady state though there have been some recent key fixtures whereby significant disorder has occurred like against Millwall and Bournemouth.”

The flipside however, is the impact the ‘bubble’ has on personal freedoms.

Over the years, football fans have been caged in on the terraces, forced to sit down (standing in an all-seater stadium is an offence), stopped from drinking alcohol during matches and not even allowed to be served a bottle which has a lid on.

For many, the ‘bubble’ is just the latest way to restrict the liberty of the law-abiding majority of football fans, by assuming they are just hooligans waiting to happen.

Indeed, the very legality of the tactic is questionable, according to Stephen Field, barrister, whose chambers is 1 Pump Court. He argues that ‘bubbles’ involving law-abiding fans are unlawful. However, unless a supporter is willing to come forward to challenge the ‘bubble’ in court, that belief may never be proven.

Basically, the use of a kettle (forcing groups to remain in one place) or a ‘bubble’ (a mobile version of a kettle) requires that ‘breach of the peace is likely to happen’ and police action has to be a last resort and ‘no more intrusive than appeared necessary’ at the time.

The fan's view

Dan Kerins gives his view as a football fan on the bubble tactic in his weekly column in the Sports Pink.

You can read it online here.

Mr Field said: “. The test of necessity would only be met in extreme and exceptional circumstances.

“Advance, routine operational decisions to indiscriminately ‘bubble’ a group of law abiding football supporters irrespective of fear of imminent breach of the peace are arguably unlawful.”

However, it would need a supporter affected by the plans to challenge the ‘bubble’ in court, to put that theory to the test.

The Football Supporters Federation, along with human rights group Liberty is currently running a campaign entitled ‘Watching Football Is Not A Crime’, which aims to stop people who attend football matches from being subject to what it sees as more draconian treatment than other sections of society.

A spokesperson for the FSF, said: “The restrictions placed on supporters for this fixture will leave some out of pocket and cause considerable inconvenience to those not living locally to Southampton.

“We feel that ‘bubble’ trips are disproportionate and will not deter the very few with the wrong intentions.

“We are aware that many supporters are cynical about the reasons for the restrictions given, suspecting rather that the ‘bubble’ is merely for convenience even though the police and clubs are insistent it is for the safety of all.”

Across the whole of England and Wales during the 2009/10 season, 3,391 arrests were made. Total nationwide attendance was 39,145,070 across all competitions.

Statistics seldom tell the full story, but that is hardly indicative of a problem running out of hand, by any measure.

Using the national statistics, 0.08 per cent of people who attended matches were arrested, or less than one in every 10,000. Over half of these arrests were for violence and public disorder, with around a third being for alcohol offences.

The remainder are made of things like pitch incursions, breaching banning orders and throwing missiles.

Between November 2009 and November 2010, 1,025 football banning orders were handed out, nationally.

However, it is seldom the main protagonists behind trouble that are caught, says Supt Burrows.

“The reality is that football crowds provide a potential for accelerated disorder, making the ability to target and differentiate intervention hugely difficult once disorder or fight-orflight situation occurs.

“Any protagonists aren’t usually the ones who get caught; it’s those who get sucked into the disorder as crowd psychology manifests itself that do.

“Where disorder occurs at a crowd event, the likelihood of injury or worse is greatly multiplied.

Heysel should be one event that resonates across history, though short memories can deny this.”

Rather than the ‘bubble’, many fans have called for a return to the holding back policy used for matches between Saints and Pompey prior to 2010. That involved keeping the away fans inside the stadium whilst the home fans dispersed.

At the most recent game, Pompey fans were allowed out into a ‘sterilised’ area in the North car park at S. Mary’s at the final whistle. It was at this point that troubled flared – although the two sets of fans never came directly into contact, as the police kept them apart.

“What I find difficult to remedy, “said Supt. Burrows, “is the two conflicting positions that see some fans demanding that the other set of fans to be ‘held back’ post match, based purely on reputation and without consideration of legal threshold, yet assess the requirement imposed on them to travel by coach as a breach of their Human Rights.

“The coach requirement is far less intrusive in respect of their freedom of movement as it is pre-determined, and as with other conditions of entry, like being searched, the individual can decide whether or not to be subject to it before the match, by deciding not to go.”

He reasons that a ‘hold-back’ is actually a far more intrusive restriction than the ‘bubble’, and the decision to use the new tactic was based upon the safety limitations of the ‘hold-back’ policy.

However, whilst the ‘bubble’ will definitely be used at both derby matches this season, it is not set in stone beyond next summer, with Hampshire Constabulary keen to point out the ‘bubble’ policy will be reviewed at the end of the season.

Supt. Burrows is very clear on one thing though – he does not see the ‘bubble’ as the easy option or a way just to victimise the average football fan.

“This is not about making policing or stewarding easier, it is about safety. Safety of fans, stewards, police and the wider public who aren’t involved in football and really don’t want to be caught up in the mindless violence and damage that we have seen at previous fixtures.”

While no true fan really wants to be subject to violence or abuse, neither do they want to be made to feel a suspected hooligan.

The balance between safety and liberty is a fine one to tread, and while it is too early to judge Hampshire’s ‘bubble’, it is unlikely the debate will rest any time soon.

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Comments(13)

sotonwinch09 says...
11:30am Mon 7 Nov 11

Sounds good to me. Can't see a problem with it to be honest. Fans get to the game on time and they get to see the game. If they have to travel a little further to Southampton to get the coach then it's not the end of the world. Were only 20 mins down the road. The only fans moaning about this are the ones who like to cause trouble or like to stand back and watch trouble. as it gives them some sort of excitement.

Invicta Saint says...
6:50pm Mon 7 Nov 11

sotonwinch09 wrote:
Sounds good to me. Can't see a problem with it to be honest. Fans get to the game on time and they get to see the game. If they have to travel a little further to Southampton to get the coach then it's not the end of the world. Were only 20 mins down the road. The only fans moaning about this are the ones who like to cause trouble or like to stand back and watch trouble. as it gives them some sort of excitement.
I am a Saints season ticket holder living in Kent. I will incur more cost going by train to Southampton rather than Fratton. I then have to get to St Marys and do not have the best of health for that walk or finances for a cab. I don't know what buses are like on a Sunday. Then I have to pay another £12 to go on the official coach. Yes I feel every right to moan, but please do not assume all "moaners" like to cause trouble or stand back and watch it!

sotonwinch09 says...
10:18pm Mon 7 Nov 11

Invicta Saint wrote:
sotonwinch09 wrote:
Sounds good to me. Can't see a problem with it to be honest. Fans get to the game on time and they get to see the game. If they have to travel a little further to Southampton to get the coach then it's not the end of the world. Were only 20 mins down the road. The only fans moaning about this are the ones who like to cause trouble or like to stand back and watch trouble. as it gives them some sort of excitement.
I am a Saints season ticket holder living in Kent. I will incur more cost going by train to Southampton rather than Fratton. I then have to get to St Marys and do not have the best of health for that walk or finances for a cab. I don't know what buses are like on a Sunday. Then I have to pay another £12 to go on the official coach. Yes I feel every right to moan, but please do not assume all "moaners" like to cause trouble or stand back and watch it!
To be fair, If it's not practical and would cause finance issues then don't go. No one is forcing you to. You can still watch the game on TV or if you do not have a TV, pop down the local pub. There are always going to be people who live far away affected by this but those that can afford it will apply. It will not bother the club as we will sell out from Southampton based fans anyway.

Ciaran says...
10:33am Tue 8 Nov 11

Why should Invicta be prevented from what he wants to do by the police? He has broken no laws.

Your attitude is a bit "Im all right jack" but doesnt consider the bigger issue of personal freedom of people who have not broken the law (and theres nothing to suggest that people like Invicta will).

Just because youre not bothered doesnt make it right. Using your logic we should all just take things we dont like on the chin and never do anything.

mhay69 says...
12:34pm Tue 8 Nov 11

This will inconvenience me and cost me more, however I am quite content that my human rights are OK and to go along with it. If I wasn't I wouldn't go and would watch us smash a few goals past them lot down the road on TV. Getting to St Marys for this is no different to getting there on a match day. If the day passes off without the mindless ones ruining it then a pat on the back to those for making it so and that includes those accepting some inconvenience for the greater good.

Bigrich1980 says...
12:39pm Tue 8 Nov 11

The problem is that in the past there has been trouble. Why should the police have to sort that mess out just because someone cant travel to Southampton. Like the other guy said if you can afford it, watch it on the TV. the police are unfortunately punishing the majority of fans, however, that small mindless element of ours and Pompey's support that do like a fight have ruined it for everyone, sorry i am right behind the police with this one. They have been proved correct a few time where they have believed there would be no trouble and it has erupted in full riots. Unfortunately these idiots have the brains the size of peas and ruin it for everyone else. If you cant afford it or cant be bothered to go the extra 20 miles then watch it on sky and save yourself a trip and some money. Simple.

ToastyTea says...
1:01pm Tue 8 Nov 11

What about us that are alcoholics (or on match days anyway). We are going to have to go around 6 hours without a beer because they won't even serve beer in the ground. A complete joke.
Just going to have to get sozzled before going on the coach.
Overall the bubble is a disgrace for all involved.
The derby game should be lads, train and no women, children or over 60's allowed.

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...
1:46pm Tue 8 Nov 11

What a load of twaddle written here.

If Invicta Saint wants to go to a football match to cheer his team on it is a breach of his rights to deny him that. The barrister quoted above more or less says the same.

I am a guest in hospitality that day so I shall not be in any bubble as I will be remaining long after final whistle to enjoy a few beers and discuss our win with my skate hosts.

I have been to many derbies, home and away, it is only one group causing the trouble and it isn't Saints fans.

Landsdowne saint says...
2:15pm Tue 8 Nov 11

The 'Barrister above' are you the same bloke who got me out of a tricky situation when I got thrown out Dean Court last season ?if you are I thank you,if not discard this message.

legod7 says...
2:55pm Tue 8 Nov 11

Bigrich1980 wrote:
The problem is that in the past there has been trouble. Why should the police have to sort that mess out just because someone cant travel to Southampton. Like the other guy said if you can afford it, watch it on the TV. the police are unfortunately punishing the majority of fans, however, that small mindless element of ours and Pompey's support that do like a fight have ruined it for everyone, sorry i am right behind the police with this one. They have been proved correct a few time where they have believed there would be no trouble and it has erupted in full riots. Unfortunately these idiots have the brains the size of peas and ruin it for everyone else. If you cant afford it or cant be bothered to go the extra 20 miles then watch it on sky and save yourself a trip and some money. Simple.
The game is on BBC not Sky

Pooley says...
6:13pm Tue 8 Nov 11

Personally I don't want to be confronted by people who enjoy violence and to be honest I have seen examples of that since we were relegated. I remember walking away from a Leicester match amiably chatting with one of their supporters when for no reason a Saints 'supporter' shouted ``Are you Leicester``?!) and punched this poor guy in the mouth! So unfortunately the reality is that there are people who like to be violent and if this Policing tactic is more effective I don't mind.

Thornhill Saint says...
10:51pm Tue 8 Nov 11

ToastyTea wrote:
What about us that are alcoholics (or on match days anyway). We are going to have to go around 6 hours without a beer because they won't even serve beer in the ground. A complete joke.
Just going to have to get sozzled before going on the coach.
Overall the bubble is a disgrace for all involved.
The derby game should be lads, train and no women, children or over 60's allowed.
Keeping fans apart is sensible and this sounds ultra organised. As it is soooooo cool, why the continued need to cut off all beer, and still serve the other side? There may be number of stout non-beeracholics out there but for some a half time pint and discussion on the game is part of the matchday experience.

If they continue to throw stuff at our coaches those involved (maybe me depending on the draw) should be miffed.

voiceinthecrowd says...
10:30am Sat 19 Nov 11

What happened to just going to watch the match not get into fights or get smashed.
Those lucky enough to be able to afford pint after pint should pay the piper and remember that the policing is paid for by us all when the police finance should be able to be spent on crime.
Old ladies get mugged, children cant go out in case of drug addicts etc .

Stop winging about extra costs for your travel we all are having to cut our cloth nowadays.

I cant afford a holiday is that my right??? GROW UP

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