‘Make patients ‘pay’ for missing appointments’ (From Daily Echo)

I think people who don't show up for appointments at doctor's surgerys and hospital should definitely be made to pay a financial penalty. Dentists charge for missed appointments, so why not GPs etc?!

Solomon's Boot wrote:
I think people who don't show up for appointments at doctor's surgerys and hospital should definitely be made to pay a financial penalty. Dentists charge for missed appointments, so why not GPs etc?!

if a functioning cancellation process is put in place ,you may have a point.

Solomon's Boot wrote:
I think people who don't show up for appointments at doctor's surgerys and hospital should definitely be made to pay a financial penalty. Dentists charge for missed appointments, so why not GPs etc?!

This is a dysfunctional approach to problem-solving. "It's like this over there, so make it like that over here, too!". What if it's wrong over there? Amazingly, Denham is quite right. WHY are people missing appointments? I bet a lot of the time it's because they couldn't get through to their surgery.

Here's another thought. Financial penalties like this often have the opposite effect to that desired. For example, a nursery school was having problems with parents not picking up kids on time after school. So they combatted it with a fine. You pick your kid up late, you charge a fine. Good, right? That'll discourage people from breaking the rules!

Nope. It encouraged them. People saw it as a charge for services, and used the service. MORE people started leaving their kids there late, and of course, they felt perfectly justified doing it, because they were paying for it.

Now, what if a doctor's surgery implemented no-cancellation fees. Some people will feel less inclined to make the effort to cancel an appointment, and opt to just pay the charge. Pull a figure out of the air. Let's say it's £10. A lot of people will just pay that, rather than spend ages trying to ring through and cancel an appointment. Result? There's still a missed appointment.

So make it larger, then, eh? No. What if I can't pay it? Or won't pay it? What are the surgery going to do? They can't refuse to treat a patient. Imagine the hell that would break loose if someone missed an appointment, was subsequently refused another because they hadn't paid their penalty, then died as a result? Nope, that's not going to happen, no surgery is going to risk that. So how is it enforceable?

I know there's a contingency on these forums that think I disagree with posts "for fun" or to stir up trouble. I'm not. There is always more to solving a problem than simply creating a new rule to deal with it. If you feel like discussing that, go for it. If you just want to call me names for going against the grain, don't bother.

will appointments be on time, i hav eturned up for appointments and had to wait over an hour losing pay from work, will they have to pay if they fail to be on time.

Quite right they should pay. It's just rude to miss an appointment.

Well, Georgem, some interesting points there, but it clearly works at the dentist surgery. If an appointment is broken without 24hrs notice, a charge is made. Simple. AND they will text/phone you to make sure you're aware of your appointment. No reason why this couldn't work elsewhere!

Common courtesy is all it takes.

Solomon's Boot wrote:
Well, Georgem, some interesting points there, but it clearly works at the dentist surgery. If an appointment is broken without 24hrs notice, a charge is made. Simple. AND they will text/phone you to make sure you're aware of your appointment. No reason why this couldn't work elsewhere!

Common courtesy is all it takes.

How do you know it clearly works, though? That's my point. Unless someone is monitoring missed appointments to see if a no-cancel charge is reducing them, it's impossible to know. If someone has some evidence that a late-cancel or no-cancel charge is actually solving the problem of missed appointments, let's see it.

Georgem wrote:

Solomon's Boot wrote:
I think people who don't show up for appointments at doctor's surgerys and hospital should definitely be made to pay a financial penalty. Dentists charge for missed appointments, so why not GPs etc?!

This is a dysfunctional approach to problem-solving. "It's like this over there, so make it like that over here, too!". What if it's wrong over there? Amazingly, Denham is quite right. WHY are people missing appointments? I bet a lot of the time it's because they couldn't get through to their surgery.

Here's another thought. Financial penalties like this often have the opposite effect to that desired. For example, a nursery school was having problems with parents not picking up kids on time after school. So they combatted it with a fine. You pick your kid up late, you charge a fine. Good, right? That'll discourage people from breaking the rules!

Nope. It encouraged them. People saw it as a charge for services, and used the service. MORE people started leaving their kids there late, and of course, they felt perfectly justified doing it, because they were paying for it.

Now, what if a doctor's surgery implemented no-cancellation fees. Some people will feel less inclined to make the effort to cancel an appointment, and opt to just pay the charge. Pull a figure out of the air. Let's say it's £10. A lot of people will just pay that, rather than spend ages trying to ring through and cancel an appointment. Result? There's still a missed appointment.

So make it larger, then, eh? No. What if I can't pay it? Or won't pay it? What are the surgery going to do? They can't refuse to treat a patient. Imagine the hell that would break loose if someone missed an appointment, was subsequently refused another because they hadn't paid their penalty, then died as a result? Nope, that's not going to happen, no surgery is going to risk that. So how is it enforceable?

I know there's a contingency on these forums that think I disagree with posts "for fun" or to stir up trouble. I'm not. There is always more to solving a problem than simply creating a new rule to deal with it. If you feel like discussing that, go for it. If you just want to call me names for going against the grain, don't bother.

TW4T !

In the past if I've had an hospital appointment & I can't make that day I phone up & re-arrange the appointment.
when they send you a letter you are asked if you can't make it to please phone & either cancel it or rearrange it so what reasons is Denham talking about?
Any person with a brain should no this procedure,
If you decide you no longer want to go ahead phone & cancel if work commitments mean you can't make it either you or your partner/mother phone & rearrange it & the same should happen if you or a family member your caring for is sick.
Can't be bothered to go or phone is no excuse so why shouldn't you be expected to pay a small fine?
Just remember another person could have had that appointment

Why must the sms reminders NHS organisations use be NO-REPLY!!!

Why aren't we able to text 'cancel' and maybe a code or reference back to the sender and cancel unwanted appointments in 5 seconds!

Georgem's comment is thoughtful should be taken seriously.

As it is the nature of this site, nobody should be surprised if usual suspects try to ridicule well thought arguments.

MPs Denham and Lewes are right that this problem can only be solved by seriously studying all its causes.

As this is not a new problem, I am surprised that when he was in office John Denham did not start that research. Any way better late than never... He deserves appreciation for talking very good sense, this time.

Solomon's Boot wrote:
Well, Georgem, some interesting points there, but it clearly works at the dentist surgery. If an appointment is broken without 24hrs notice, a charge is made. Simple. AND they will text/phone you to make sure you're aware of your appointment. No reason why this couldn't work elsewhere!

Common courtesy is all it takes.

It doesn't actually. More and more dentists are scrapping their missed appointment policy. As Georgem points out it encourages people to miss appointments if they can afford it or just refuse to pay. The dentist or doctor for that matter would prefer to get their cancellation rate down. What's a 'good reason' as well?

There is no excuse for missing an appointment. Many surgeries now have online websites where you can make or cancel appointments, email addresses etc. I think it would be helpful if surgeries had dedicated cancellation lines as we all know how difficult it is to phone through on a mainline. At the end of the day though I agree that a small charge for missed appointments should be made or a three times and your out rule be applied.

Georgem wrote:

Solomon's Boot wrote:
I think people who don't show up for appointments at doctor's surgerys and hospital should definitely be made to pay a financial penalty. Dentists charge for missed appointments, so why not GPs etc?!

This is a dysfunctional approach to problem-solving. "It's like this over there, so make it like that over here, too!". What if it's wrong over there? Amazingly, Denham is quite right. WHY are people missing appointments? I bet a lot of the time it's because they couldn't get through to their surgery.

Here's another thought. Financial penalties like this often have the opposite effect to that desired. For example, a nursery school was having problems with parents not picking up kids on time after school. So they combatted it with a fine. You pick your kid up late, you charge a fine. Good, right? That'll discourage people from breaking the rules!

Nope. It encouraged them. People saw it as a charge for services, and used the service. MORE people started leaving their kids there late, and of course, they felt perfectly justified doing it, because they were paying for it.

Now, what if a doctor's surgery implemented no-cancellation fees. Some people will feel less inclined to make the effort to cancel an appointment, and opt to just pay the charge. Pull a figure out of the air. Let's say it's £10. A lot of people will just pay that, rather than spend ages trying to ring through and cancel an appointment. Result? There's still a missed appointment.

So make it larger, then, eh? No. What if I can't pay it? Or won't pay it? What are the surgery going to do? They can't refuse to treat a patient. Imagine the hell that would break loose if someone missed an appointment, was subsequently refused another because they hadn't paid their penalty, then died as a result? Nope, that's not going to happen, no surgery is going to risk that. So how is it enforceable?

I know there's a contingency on these forums that think I disagree with posts "for fun" or to stir up trouble. I'm not. There is always more to solving a problem than simply creating a new rule to deal with it. If you feel like discussing that, go for it. If you just want to call me names for going against the grain, don't bother.

I would agree.

Placing patients to the bottom of a waiting list would probably work better, particularly if they are unwell and have to 'suffer' a little longer before seeing a doctor.

I'm not condoning missed appointments, but if people didn't miss appointemnts then waiting times would be even longer. How many times have you had an appointment and been seen on time? Missed appointments allow the doctors to catch up.

Can patients fine doctors for cancelled appointments too?

Knowingly missing an appointment is wrong.But hospitals also make mistakes regarding appointments.My mother had an automated phonecall reminding her of an appointment.Thinking she had simply forgot about it she attended only to be told that there was no appointment.Also I have been to apointments at the Hospital only to discover the whole department had moved to the RSH and no one had bothered to reschedule appointments.Im wondering how many appointments are missed due to a person not attending and how many are due to departments not communicating or other error.

wilson castaway wrote:
Knowingly missing an appointment is wrong.But hospitals also make mistakes regarding appointments.My mother had an automated phonecall reminding her of an appointment.Thinking she had simply forgot about it she attended only to be told that there was no appointment.Also I have been to apointments at the Hospital only to discover the whole department had moved to the RSH and no one had bothered to reschedule appointments.Im wondering how many appointments are missed due to a person not attending and how many are due to departments not communicating or other error.

Exactly. Still remember one of my son's many appointments. RSH and parked away from site because the Car park was always chocker. Apparently the appointment had been cancelled but only for half the patients, we had been informed by letter - umm, no we hadn't. We were the 4th patient that day who CLAIMED not to have received a letter. Doctors were there just not enough for a full clinic but we were turned away, as was the person behind us(making 5). They agreed to refund parking, provided it was on site. No mention of missing wages or taking son out of school for the day or the sheer inconvenience(and it was totally inconvenient to attend that appointment but WE had made the effort).

It works both ways and there is right or wrong on both. A cancellation system that works would help. Had to cancel an appointment for my son with a hospital appointments section that rarely answer the phone when it rings, probably because they've all nipped out to lunch having been engaged all morning. Now I am expected to dedicate hours to cancelling an appointment that it was on record we could not attend? Yes but phoned somebody else at the hospital who cancelled for me. Couldn't write in as the letters give no address at all, never mind where in the health authority the appointments section are located.

They want to fine people then maybe they need to look long and hard at their systems.

Not complaining mind, OH needed an appointment, Doc referred him on aWeds, Hospital phoned through a cancellation on Friday for the Monday and then a cancellation appointment was found to be available on the Tuesday for a small op. Wasn't even anything urgent (((NHS))).

wilson castaway wrote:
Knowingly missing an appointment is wrong.But hospitals also make mistakes regarding appointments.My mother had an automated phonecall reminding her of an appointment.Thinking she had simply forgot about it she attended only to be told that there was no appointment.Also I have been to apointments at the Hospital only to discover the whole department had moved to the RSH and no one had bothered to reschedule appointments.Im wondering how many appointments are missed due to a person not attending and how many are due to departments not communicating or other error.

Exactly. Still remember one of my son's many appointments. RSH and parked away from site because the Car park was always chocker. Apparently the appointment had been cancelled but only for half the patients, we had been informed by letter - umm, no we hadn't. We were the 4th patient that day who CLAIMED not to have received a letter. Doctors were there just not enough for a full clinic but we were turned away, as was the person behind us(making 5). They agreed to refund parking, provided it was on site. No mention of missing wages or taking son out of school for the day or the sheer inconvenience(and it was totally inconvenient to attend that appointment but WE had made the effort).

It works both ways and there is right or wrong on both. A cancellation system that works would help. Had to cancel an appointment for my son with a hospital appointments section that rarely answer the phone when it rings, probably because they've all nipped out to lunch having been engaged all morning. Now I am expected to dedicate hours to cancelling an appointment that it was on record we could not attend? Yes but phoned somebody else at the hospital who cancelled for me. Couldn't write in as the letters give no address at all, never mind where in the health authority the appointments section are located.

They want to fine people then maybe they need to look long and hard at their systems.

Not complaining mind, OH needed an appointment, Doc referred him on aWeds, Hospital phoned through a cancellation on Friday for the Monday and then a cancellation appointment was found to be available on the Tuesday for a small op. Wasn't even anything urgent (((NHS))).

In our fast, furious, and expensive lives we want quick fixes for every problem. I agree with John Denham.