Send pictures to us
Send us your pictures and video by text, email or by uploading. Click here to find out how. »
|
|
|
|
Nowhere to hide from crime busting cameras
1:21pm Tuesday 12th February 2008
Comments (60)
By Peter Law »
THOUSANDS of smart lampposts could soon provide high-speed Internet access across Hampshire, while at the same time spying on crime-hit communities.
Hi-tech cameras could be attached to new lampposts in trouble hotspots and beam footage to surveillance centres.
In rural areas the streetlights could be dimmed or switched off under controversial blackout plans to cut energy bills and the county's carbon footprint.
The ideas will all be considered after the Government yesterday announced £225m is to be spent on replacing 165,000 old lampposts in Southampton, Hampshire and West Sussex. In Southampton, 27,000 lampposts - 80 per cent of the city's streetlights - will be replaced by the autumn of 2014.
The Daily Echo can today reveal Southampton City Council's ambition to create widespread wireless Internet coverage - known as Wi-Fi zones - across the city. The installation of new lampposts is seen as an opportunity to introduce the technology.
In Norwich - Britain's first Wi-Fi city - residents and workers with wireless enabled laptops, personal digital assistants (PDA) and mobile phones are able to tap into the city's internet network for free via tiny antenna on lampposts.
In other parts of the country, councils have equipped their lampposts with talking CCTV to help crack crime.
In Penhill, Wiltshire, control centre operators can call out warnings to troublemakers by using microphones inside state-of-the-art mobile cameras.
Human rights group Liberty blasted the scheme as a gimmick and said the money would be better spent on more police officers.
Funding for Hampshire's new lampposts has been secured under a Private Finance Initiative (PFI) agreement, where a private company will design, build, finance and operate the lighting on behalf of the three councils. Six private companies have already begun bidding for the lucrative contract.
The county's transport chiefs yesterday said they would leave it to the bidders to recommend whether Wi-Fi, CCTV or even solar power technology could be utilised.
Southampton City Council's transport boss Gavin Dick said: "There is the potential for cameras, improved community safety and Wi-Fi technology.
"Basically we are looking to use lower energy consumption and lower light pollution."
Hampshire County Council spokeswoman Sarette Martin said: "We will specify appropriate lighting levels for all areas and invite bidders to suggest new and innovative technologies to reduce energy consumption and the carbon footprint within an overall budget.
"We are not specifying Wi-Fi or CCTV but leaving it open to bidders to put forward their proposals."
The new energy efficient lampposts will shine white light in Hampshire's streets and be directed down on to footpaths and roads, resulting in less light pollution in the night sky. It is hoped better lighting will reduce crime and boost the county's night-time economy.
However, dark streets currently without streetlights are to remain unlit.
Your Say YourEcho
One Dollar, Soton says...
11:03am Tue 12 Feb 08
S!mon wrote:S!mon - you shouldn't pick your nose, your head will cave in!
Big Brother style!!! Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....
Adrian Smith, says...
11:07am Tue 12 Feb 08
S!mon wrote:Classic Government function creep. Will not see the light.
Big Brother style!!! Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....
Graham, Southampton says...
11:12am Tue 12 Feb 08
Al Gore, says...
11:25am Tue 12 Feb 08
Graham wrote:How many carbon offsets are needed to produce the solar panels and batteries?
Today technology is so advanced that it is possible even in Southampton to have the street lights solar powered. During the day daylight is collected then stored in a battery. At night the battery provides the light. Reserves for low light(cloudy) days are included. see www.grayhatch.com Graham Smith Grayhatch founder. Zero Carbon Foot print could be achieved In Southampton street lights
Harry Remmington, New Forest says...
11:45am Tue 12 Feb 08
Some new lampposts are not going shed any better light on the dump called Southampton
Gorey Al, says...
11:49am Tue 12 Feb 08
Al Gore wrote:Or to build the factories to make the panels, or package them up, drive to the installation point, remove the old one, dispose of it
Graham wrote:How many carbon offsets are needed to produce the solar panels and batteries?
Today technology is so advanced that it is possible even in Southampton to have the street lights solar powered. During the day daylight is collected then stored in a battery. At night the battery provides the light. Reserves for low light(cloudy) days are included. see www.grayhatch.com Graham Smith Grayhatch founder. Zero Carbon Foot print could be achieved In Southampton street lights
etc etc etc
probably the best energy saving would be in low energy light bulb replacements
An angry soton resident, says...
11:58am Tue 12 Feb 08
Len Viaduct, says...
12:09pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Harry Remmington wrote:I might be elderly Mr Remmington but I assure you that I am not 'mundane'.
Before dreaming about cyberspace perhaps a few mundane things like the elderly, sick and homeless can be sorted out. Some new lampposts are not going shed any better light on the dump called Southampton
Have some respect!
GL, Hants says...
12:24pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Therefore, there can be only one reason why more CCTV's are required ... to spy on the rest of us whereever we are and whatever we're doing.
Big Brother must be stopped and stopped NOW!
Bring back hanging, Southampton says...
1:34pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Doofus Dalek, says...
1:36pm Tue 12 Feb 08
GL wrote:Yes, but don't you feel safe, with all of those cameras watching you, looking out for your safety ?
We already have more CCTV's per person in the UK than any other country in the world ... yet it doesn't seem to do anything to make our streets safer.
Therefore, there can be only one reason why more CCTV's are required ... to spy on the rest of us whereever we are and whatever we're doing.
Big Brother must be stopped and stopped NOW!
jimmer, says...
1:40pm Tue 12 Feb 08
George, says...
1:43pm Tue 12 Feb 08
jimmer wrote:Congratulations, jimmer, it usually takes people a bit longer than that to play the (completely fallacious) "if you have nothing to hide" card
will you all stop going on how its like big brother whos cares and so
what if it is watching us all day, if you got nothing to hide then it
doesn't matter and what if it does it not like they can get your bank
deatils from watching walk down the street cant see what the big fuse
is, your just all stuck in the past you miserable bxxxxxxds, look it as
from if some thing happened to ytou whilst on the streets or a family
member attacked at least theres that little bit of hope they got cctv
of, you be the first people maoing saying to the police" WELL WASN'T
THER ANY CCTV"
hmm, says...
1:53pm Tue 12 Feb 08
George wrote:He's right though
jimmer wrote:Congratulations, jimmer, it usually takes people
will you all stop going on how its like big brother whos cares and so
what if it is watching us all day, if you got nothing to hide then it
doesn't matter and what if it does it not like they can get your bank
deatils from watching walk down the street cant see what the big fuse
is, your just all stuck in the past you miserable bxxxxxxds, look it as
from if some thing happened to ytou whilst on the streets or a family
member attacked at least theres that little bit of hope they got cctv
of, you be the first people maoing saying to the police" WELL WASN'T
THER ANY CCTV"
a bit longer than that to play the (completely fallacious) "if you have
nothing to hide" card
George, says...
1:58pm Tue 12 Feb 08
hmm wrote:He isn't
George wrote:He's right though
jimmer wrote:Congratulations, jimmer, it usually takes people
will you all stop going on how its like big brother whos cares and so
what if it is watching us all day, if you got nothing to hide then it
doesn't matter and what if it does it not like they can get your bank
deatils from watching walk down the street cant see what the big fuse
is, your just all stuck in the past you miserable bxxxxxxds, look it as
from if some thing happened to ytou whilst on the streets or a family
member attacked at least theres that little bit of hope they got cctv
of, you be the first people maoing saying to the police" WELL WASN'T
THER ANY CCTV"
a bit longer than that to play the (completely fallacious) "if you have
nothing to hide" card
Gozza, Underneath the lamplight says...
2:16pm Tue 12 Feb 08
In Penhill, Wiltshire, control centre operators can call out warnings to troublemakers by using microphones inside state-of-the-art mobile cameras.
I'd have thought it would be easier if the microphones were in the CCTV control centres, and the cameras had speakers. Or is it just possible that that's what the Echo meant?
fred, Bristol says...
2:18pm Tue 12 Feb 08
That's not what I would define as being free.
Jimmy, Chippenham says...
2:19pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Figured It Out, says...
2:21pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Gozza wrote:No... the idea is to employ people who can shout loud.
In Penhill, Wiltshire, control centre operators can call out warnings to troublemakers by using microphones inside state-of-the-art mobile cameras.I'd have thought it would be easier if the microphones were in the CCTV control centres, and the cameras had speakers. Or is it just possible that that's what the Echo meant?
That way.. it has the effect of stopping trouble-makers and, as punishment, scare them away into the night.
The microphones are to see if they have shouted loud enough.
George, says...
2:21pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Jimmy wrote:Don't fall for that, it's a red herring
Wi-Fi would be an excellent idea.
Goodness Sake!, Soton says...
2:23pm Tue 12 Feb 08
In rural areas the streetlights could be dimmed or switched off under controversial blackout plans to cut energy bills and the county's carbon footprint.
Isn't the point of having streetlights on to see where you are going? Even in rural areas people still come and go at night and welcome streetlights to see where they are going!! STREELIGHTS - THEY LIGHT THE STREETS AT NIGHT - WHY TURN THEM OFF AT NIGHT??? This world gets more ridiculous by the day!!!
S!mon, says...
2:24pm Tue 12 Feb 08
fred wrote:I want to drive at 100mph and go skinny-dipping at my local pool... but i can't.
I have nothing to hide but I still don't want anyone to know where I am 24/7/365 - why should they? That's not what I would define as being free.
Thats not what i define as being free.
local, says...
2:25pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Iain, Lordshill says...
2:27pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Gozza, On camera says...
2:27pm Tue 12 Feb 08
I have nothing to hide but I still don't want anyone to know where I am 24/7/365 - why should they?
Why would they?
Even with 100% CCTV cover, there will NEVER be enough manpower to track even a small proportion of the population. The usefulness of these devices will always be restricted to watching for trouble, and providing evidence once trouble has happened. Yes, the operators will be able to watch you walking down the road - but they'll never know that it's "Fred from Bristol" they're watching, unless Fred commits a crime or becomes the victim of crime.
And that's why the "If you've nothing to hide" philosophy is NOT a fallacy.
George, says...
2:35pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Gozza wrote:'tis a fallacy. The point is, you don't know what you've got to hide. Sure, you might be confident about that by today's standards, but the law changes all the time, and who knows what might suddenly be illegal tomorrow? Once we have full CCTV coverage, that ain't undone so easily. Saying "I have nothing to hide, feel free to watch me" is akin to saying "I trust the governing bodies 100% to be fair and just at all times, and hereby empower them to make all decisions on my behalf". I don't trust this government one little bit. One of the first things they did when they got in power was, discover that the police had been maintaining a DNA database that was completely illegal, and not only made it legal, but retroactively changed the law such that it had never been illegal in the first place. They're not trustworthy, simple as that.
Fred from Bristol said...I have nothing to hide but I still
don't want anyone to know where I am 24/7/365 - why should
they?
Why would they?
Even with 100% CCTV cover, there will NEVER be enough manpower to track
even a small proportion of the population. The usefulness of these
devices will always be restricted to watching for trouble, and
providing evidence once trouble has happened. Yes, the operators will
be able to watch you walking down the road - but they'll never know
that it's "Fred from Bristol" they're watching, unless Fred commits a
crime or becomes the victim of crime.
And that's why the "If you've nothing to hide" philosophy is NOT a
fallacy.
Denzil, Romsey says...
2:36pm Tue 12 Feb 08
hmm wrote:He's a skate. Don't stick up for him Hmm. Although I have to admit these lampposts will probably be cleverer than your average Police officer, and slimmer!
George wrote:He's right thoughjimmer wrote: will you all stop going on how its like big brother whos cares and so what if it is watching us all day, if you got nothing to hide then it doesn't matter and what if it does it not like they can get your bank deatils from watching walk down the street cant see what the big fuse is, your just all stuck in the past you miserable bxxxxxxds, look it as from if some thing happened to ytou whilst on the streets or a family member attacked at least theres that little bit of hope they got cctv of, you be the first people maoing saying to the police" WELL WASN'T THER ANY CCTV"Congratulations, jimmer, it usually takes people a bit longer than that to play the (completely fallacious) "if you have nothing to hide" card
WILFRED, says...
2:50pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Gozza, By the garden gate says...
3:05pm Tue 12 Feb 08
The point is, you don't know what you've got to hideAre you on any kind of medication, George?
If not, perhaps you ought to be...
Lee Whitbread, Labour Candidate for Bassett says...
3:21pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Astounded, says...
3:32pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Lee Whitbread wrote:Are you some kind of simpleton? You speak with startling naivety.
I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.
George, says...
3:46pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Gozza wrote:Is that it, then? I make a point you don't agree with, and it's time for personal insults? Sounds about right for the, ahem, intellect on this board
The point is, you don't know what you've got to hideAre you on any kind of medication, George?
If not, perhaps you ought to be...
next
George, says...
3:50pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Adrian Smith, says...
4:23pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Lee Whitbread wrote:Whi is going to pay for that Internet access? Please think very carefully before answering.
I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.
Gozza, Southampton says...
4:24pm Tue 12 Feb 08
In the same way, yes, it's possible that a future government might criminalise something that we currently consider normal acceptable behaviour. It's possible that having done that, they trawl the CCTV recordings to look for people who've already been doing it. But to believe that it's actually likely to happen goes beyond the bounds of healthy scepticism into what many people would call paranoia.
Smithy Smithy, says...
4:37pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Adrian Smith wrote:Why is "Whi" paying for the internet access?
Lee Whitbread wrote: I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.Whi is going to pay for that Internet access? Please think very carefully before answering.
Is "Whi" a public or private owned company?
King Mush, Woolston says...
4:37pm Tue 12 Feb 08
One Dollar wrote:Aw - dont pick on new boy S!mon. Invite him out for a Chinese meal and ask what he thinks about me.....
S!mon wrote: Big Brother style!!! Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....S!mon - you shouldn't pick your nose, your head will cave in!
Ironside, says...
4:39pm Tue 12 Feb 08
George wrote:The irony George.
Gozza wrote:Is that it, then? I make a point you don't agree with, and it's time for personal insults? Sounds about right for the, ahem, intellect on this board nextThe point is, you don't know what you've got to hideAre you on any kind of medication, George? If not, perhaps you ought to be...
On another feed.... you call the person a "fool" because you don't agree with their post.
S!mon, says...
4:40pm Tue 12 Feb 08
King Mush wrote:Heh!
One Dollar wrote:Aw - dont pick on new boy S!mon. Invite him out for a Chinese meal and ask what he thinks about me.....S!mon wrote: Big Brother style!!! Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....S!mon - you shouldn't pick your nose, your head will cave in!
You got the response you craved after so don't know what you're complaining about.
JD, Eastleigh says...
4:43pm Tue 12 Feb 08
GL wrote:I agree with you it doesn't make our streets any safer. Half the time the cameras are pointing the wrong way when a crime is committed.Sadly I should know because I live in eastleigh where there are loads of CCTV cameras but crime is still rife here.
We already have more CCTV\'s per person in the UK than any other country in the world ... yet it doesn\'t seem to do anything to make our streets safer. Therefore, there can be only one reason why more CCTV\'s are required ... to spy on the rest of us whereever we are and whatever we\'re doing. Big Brother must be stopped and stopped NOW!
Rocket, Southampton says...
4:44pm Tue 12 Feb 08
S!mon wrote:well, the answer is dont pick your nose in public, or anything else you have to hide, bring them on, this might get the low life off of the streets & let decent people have the freedom to go out at night without feeling intimidated, something that has been taken away from them ever since you couldn't smack your kids, now look at the " Happy Slapping " little GITS
Big Brother style!!! Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....
George, says...
4:58pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Ironside wrote:Not I. Someone else called George, or an impersonator. I make a point not to do that. Anyways, I can see this is just going to devolve into yet another round of a load of anonymous people leaping up and down, pointing and saying "I remember once when George said (whatever)" which is so far removed from debate it's laughable. Good day to you all
George wrote:
Gozza wrote:Is that it, then? IThe point is, you don't knowAre you on any kind of medication,
what you've got to hide
George? If not, perhaps you ought to be...
make a point you don't agree with, and it's time for personal insults?
Sounds about right for the, ahem, intellect on this board next
The irony George.
On another feed.... you call the person a "fool" because you don't
agree with their post.
Adrian Smith, says...
5:03pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Smithy Smithy wrote:You caught me out. Typo which should have read "who".
Adrian Smith wrote:Why is "Whi" paying for the internet access? Is "Whi" a public or private owned company?Lee Whitbread wrote: I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.Whi is going to pay for that Internet access? Please think very carefully before answering.
S!mon, says...
5:09pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Adrian Smith wrote:Right... in which case i reckon its Joe Bloggs who will ultimately pay.
Smithy Smithy wrote:You caught me out. Typo which should have read "who".Adrian Smith wrote:Why is "Whi" paying for the internet access? Is "Whi" a public or private owned company?Lee Whitbread wrote: I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.Whi is going to pay for that Internet access? Please think very carefully before answering.
Adrian Smith, says...
5:28pm Tue 12 Feb 08
S!mon wrote:Probably.
Adrian Smith wrote:Right... in which case i reckon its Joe Bloggs who will ultimately pay.Smithy Smithy wrote:You caught me out. Typo which should have read "who".Adrian Smith wrote:Why is "Whi" paying for the internet access? Is "Whi" a public or private owned company?Lee Whitbread wrote: I think such a scheme would be very welcome in communities that are blighted by anti-social behaviour and criminal activity. The icing on the cake has to be the wireless internet. this will bring many more people into the digital age.Whi is going to pay for that Internet access? Please think very carefully before answering.
We have someone claiming to be the labour party candidate for my ward telling me what a wonderful idea this is.
If he had actually bothered to look at such attempts to offer this kind of access in the US and other parts of the UK he might realise how futile it has become.
Andy, Eastleigh says...
7:00pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Matt, Southampton says...
7:15pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Adrian Smith, says...
7:47pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Matt wrote:Where I live I can see four WiFi networks in addition to mine. At my London office I can see over 20 WiFi networks.
I thought there was health risks involved with Wi-Fi networks due to the radiation they emit? Although apparently, the official view is they are 'low risk', I would prefer no risk. Ultimately if this wi-fi is incorporated into lamposts in Southampton then were all being exposed to (low)levels of radiation without anyone seeking our permission!( and yes, I do avoid cafes which 'offer' free wi-fi access)
It's too late to worry about getting permission - the genie is out of that bottle for good.
mark, bitt park says...
8:06pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Derek, Dibden Purlieu says...
8:20pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Andy wrote:Once they start using the cameras for collecting numbers from cars on yellow lines, the system will probably pay for itself very quickly as the fines roll in. You don't really think it's for any other reason than hammering the motorist?
This works out at about £1300 per lamp post. Seems a bit high for a metal pole with light on top. Especially buying in bulk. Are we getting value for money here ?
Antony, Southampton says...
9:38pm Tue 12 Feb 08
Chris, Guildford says...
10:59pm Tue 12 Feb 08
jimmer, says...
11:12pm Tue 12 Feb 08
fred wrote:but its not like there going to be writing down were u are its just a camera in the sky dont mean its always on you, your pretty much on camera all day any way so get used to it
I have nothing to hide but I still don\\\'t want anyone to know where I am 24/7/365 - why should they? That\\\'s not what I would define as being free.
me, Manchester says...
12:34am Wed 13 Feb 08
u812, southampton says...
3:33am Wed 13 Feb 08
Mike, Soton says...
10:41am Wed 13 Feb 08
Gozza, Southampton says...
11:15am Wed 13 Feb 08
Mike wrote:Well one difference might be that u812 isn't claiming to be a professional journalist...
"unless you were throw off that as well".... pot.kettle.black.
Bob, Big City says...
12:24pm Thu 14 Feb 08
Good time to buy shares in hoodie manufacturers? We'll all be wearing them soon.
AJ, UK says...
1:17pm Mon 18 Feb 08
S!mon, says...
10:46am Tue 12 Feb 08
Excellent... we'll be watched everywhere we go. Nobody will be able to pick their nose in secret....