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Appeal for fences to drive down animal deaths in Forest
5:53am Wednesday 12th March 2008
By Chris Yandell »
FENCES should be built beside New Forest roads to cut the number of animals killed in accidents, it has been claimed.
Hampshire county councillor Alan Rice, a member of the New Forest National Park Authority (NPA), called for barriers to be built by roads where a large number of ponies have been killed.
Previous calls to fence roads have been rejected on the grounds that it would change the Forest's character and appearance.
But Councillor Rice said it was time to grasp the nettle and fence roads such as the B3054 from Dibden Purlieu to Hilltop.
He told fellow NPA members: "The minute you mention fencing there are gasps of horror. People say it would compartmentalise the Forest but look at the size of the compartments it would create.
"Everyone moans about animal accidents but nothing ever gets done."
Fellow NPA member Susan Achmatowicz said the authority should look at the possibility of installing "invisible" electric fencing in areas with high numbers of collisions.
Last year, 90 ponies, cows and donkeys were killed or injured on Forest roads. All the animals belonged to Commoners - villagers with the right to let their stock roam the area.
However, calls for extra fencing in the area received a cool response from other members of the NPA.
Peter Frost said: "When we have to fence the Forest we will have failed as a national park."
Members were discussing various ways of cutting the animal accident toll, including the use of more effective signs.
Your Say YourEcho
Denzil, work says...
8:01am Wed 12 Mar 08
These rich villagers should just keep their pets in their gardens if they don't want them being killed, next they will want to lower the speed limit.
animal lover, Southampton says...
8:03am Wed 12 Mar 08
You would not require fences if the locals reduced their speed to 40 like the rest of us. Reference a certain gentleman that flew past me at 60 plus, I next saw him entering his front gate at Emrey Down with his Sunday newspapers. These are the people that could stop the animal deaths.
hmm, says...
8:10am Wed 12 Mar 08
Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding
Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them"
You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure.
Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own pets
Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them"
You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure.
Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own pets
JB. Soton, Gosport says...
8:22am Wed 12 Mar 08
hmm wrote:I agree with this posting.Why should fencing be
Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding
Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with \"they will get caught up by them\"
You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure.
Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own pets
put up. Animals have roamed free in this forest for centuries. Reflective neck bands, AND, lower speed limits would make a big difference.
Paula, marchwood says...
8:36am Wed 12 Mar 08
enforcement of the speed limits would help too, some more of those reminder signals, the ones that flash up when you go over the 40. The whole point of national parks is that they are wide open spaces, dartmoor, exmoor, snowdon...do you see them strung accross with fences? For the commoners who's animals graze the forest, they are a livelihood, and the grazing makes the forest what it is. Slow down a bit, dont race through it, enjoy it.
Forest Saint, Brockenhurst says...
9:10am Wed 12 Mar 08
As a commoner owning livestock on the Forest, I am not surprised by Alan Rice's comments, spoken like a true New Miltonian.
The only people who benefit from fences are the speeding motorists, locals and non-locals alike.
I suggest that the local police conduct speed checks on the Lymington to Beaulieu road, say on a Friday around 5.30pm.
Great to boost the local authority coffers.
What next? Charging for using Forest Car Parks - just wait for it.
The only people who benefit from fences are the speeding motorists, locals and non-locals alike.
I suggest that the local police conduct speed checks on the Lymington to Beaulieu road, say on a Friday around 5.30pm.
Great to boost the local authority coffers.
What next? Charging for using Forest Car Parks - just wait for it.
Also in the know, New Forest says...
9:25am Wed 12 Mar 08
I travel these roads every day and my daughter keeps animals on the forest and has lost animals to hit and run drivers on the forest. 40mph is a limit, not a target ! I would like to see what the fatality rate is for animals on Exmoor, there the roads are narrow and are not kept to normal highways standards - it brings speed down. What people need to realise is that the New Forest is an asset and the animals make it that asset, once again we will destroy it because the minority want to drive fast and nuts to everyone else!
Pony, On the verge says...
9:33am Wed 12 Mar 08
Fellow NPA member Susan Achmatowicz said the authority should look at the possibility of installing "invisible" electric fencing in areas with high numbers of collisions
Local girl with a very limited idea of reality ? No doubt an unelected member from Poland with memories of the Russian border.
Local girl with a very limited idea of reality ? No doubt an unelected member from Poland with memories of the Russian border.
Gozza, In the Forest says...
9:36am Wed 12 Mar 08
What the H is someone like Alan Rice doing on the NFNPA? He quite plainly has no concept of what a national park is all about.
Everything else I was going to say, has already been said by JB, Paula, Forest Saint, and Also in the Know.
Everything else I was going to say, has already been said by JB, Paula, Forest Saint, and Also in the Know.
Hairey Bear, says...
9:38am Wed 12 Mar 08
Also in the know wrote:I could not agee more, "nuts to everyone else" I like drivinf fast.
I travel these roads every day and my daughter keeps animals on the forest and has lost animals to hit and run drivers on the forest. 40mph is a limit, not a target ! I would like to see what the fatality rate is for animals on Exmoor, there the roads are narrow and are not kept to normal highways standards - it brings speed down. What people need to realise is that the New Forest is an asset and the animals make it that asset, once again we will destroy it because the minority want to drive fast and nuts to everyone else!
Forest Saint, Brockenhurst says...
9:39am Wed 12 Mar 08
hmm wrote:BTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers.
Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own pets
Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars?
Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen.
If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions.
Visit the Verderers Website.
don, southampton says...
9:42am Wed 12 Mar 08
they should lower and enforce the speed limit. Sort out the motorists!
Forest Saint, Brockenhurst says...
9:44am Wed 12 Mar 08
Forgot, one other thing..
There is another option for those who don't want the animals infringing on your motorist's rights by walking in front of you and slowing you down.
MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA...
There is another option for those who don't want the animals infringing on your motorist's rights by walking in front of you and slowing you down.
MOVE AWAY FROM THE AREA...
Bemused, says...
9:51am Wed 12 Mar 08
Forest Saint wrote:If you want to be educated DO NOT visit the local drifts. These are working drifts conducted by the owners and agisters, they are dangerous places for the uninitiated. If you require more information, either try to attend the excellent Forest centre at the New Forest Show, or contact the National Park, all with the exception of Alan Rice should be able to steer your enquiry in the right direction. We also have an excellent resource in the New forest centre Lyndhurst.
hmm wrote: Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own petsBTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers. Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars? Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen. If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions. Visit the Verderers Website.
Not a saint but still from Brockenhurst, says...
9:57am Wed 12 Mar 08
I agree with Also in the know. Worse roads would solve the problem; for example very few people speed on the Rhinefield ornamental drive because it is hardly wide enough for 2 vehicles. Make all the roads like that except the A roads and the problem may be partially alleviated, with minimum costs. (But police need to crack down on lorries on these minor roads before they all revert to rutted mud tracks.)
Not a saint yet, says...
10:04am Wed 12 Mar 08
I once witnessed a collision between a speeding car and a pony, and it has profoundly affected me. Unfortunately the moron only suffered severe damage to his car and no injury, (despite the pony smashing the windscreen), unlike the poor animal whose insides burst out onto the road. He claimed the pony came out of nowhere, but it had been standing in the road all time. However, it was dusk and it was a dark coloured pony. The driver was not driving with regard to the current road conditions, and was obviously over the 40 limit. I hope his car was written off and he learned a lesson about driving.
Bemused (Part 2), says...
10:11am Wed 12 Mar 08
Alan Rice should be removed from the National Park Authority with immediate effect! He plainly has no understanding of what the National Park is all about. Yes only a fool would not acknowledge we have a major problem with road casualties, caused by locals, tourists, and indeed the animals themselves. However fencing is not the answer. Speeds will rise, and cars hitting deer not affected by the fences will cause far greater damage, and loss of both animal and human life as the deer will appear out of nowhere when they jump the fences. Mr Rice should give greater thought as to what is a feasible, workable solution before being quoted in the press. Over time many answers have been sought by people with a obvious greater understanding of the needs of the forest, and ALL it's users. So Mr Rice stand down now, and allow someone who knows what may be required to sit in your place.
Si and Dave, says...
10:20am Wed 12 Mar 08
Dave and I ate horse on one of our advetures, I can tell 'e it wasn't half bad mind. So our thinkin goes like this.., Sell of the dead-dobins to ya loacal butcher fur tha meat. that'le raise some cash for tha coffers, and before long, Bobs ya Aunties live-in luva, ya has ya cash for ya little shiny horsey bands. Thanks by the way tu Gino, Dave says he's hurt, but will get over it. Si.
Common Sense, says...
10:26am Wed 12 Mar 08
A a lot of people have pointed out, if you have to put fences up, it makes a mockery of the area being a National Park. Excuse the pun, but animals have been roaming the Forest for donkeys. Drivers should be making the allowances, local or non-local. It seems that some people have no real idea of what a National Park is. Perhaps that's the southerner in them coming out....
Baldy Badger, says...
10:27am Wed 12 Mar 08
What a load of drivel - every year the Forestry people have to cull loads of these animals to keep the number sunder control. The odd fatal tap from a speeding motor is just helping out, call it natural selection if you like.
I would actually like to see the local taxes increased to set up a fund to compensate motorists for any damage these beasts cause !
I would actually like to see the local taxes increased to set up a fund to compensate motorists for any damage these beasts cause !
Christoff, says...
10:29am Wed 12 Mar 08
Last year, 90 ponies, cows and donkeys were killed or injured on Forest roads
Another clear as mud statistic....How many died and how many were injured? Two totally different statistics. Where the injuries caused by traffic? When they say Forest roads, does that mean just the New Forest or are other forest roads included?
I suspect the tally is not significant enough to ruin the look of the New Forest and cost everybody a fortune in fencing costs.
Cynic, Southampton says...
10:35am Wed 12 Mar 08
As usual, it is not the animal that causes a problem. It is purely people with selfish attitudes. This sickness pervades all elements of modern society and ultimately will lead to only one outcome. Nothing will change because too many people care about nothing except their petty selves.
Forest Saint, Brockenhurst says...
10:47am Wed 12 Mar 08
Bemused wrote:My point in mentioning the drifts was that the uninitiated could view at first hand the care that the owners take with their animals - it is not simply just a case of letting them loose.
Forest Saint wrote:If you want to be educated DO NOT visit the local drifts. These are working drifts conducted by the owners and agisters, they are dangerous places for the uninitiated. If you require more information, either try to attend the excellent Forest centre at the New Forest Show, or contact the National Park, all with the exception of Alan Rice should be able to steer your enquiry in the right direction. We also have an excellent resource in the New forest centre Lyndhurst.hmm wrote: Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own petsBTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers. Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars? Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen. If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions. Visit the Verderers Website.
Agreed, drifts are dangerous but are also VERY well run by the agisters. If the public attend they are made aware at the very beginning of the dangers faced and also where to stand safely during the drift.
How are we going to educate others if we exclude them from seeing the care of these animals????????
Waiting, says...
10:51am Wed 12 Mar 08
Akk an Agiter where to stand.
His answer will be "In the next village"
His answer will be "In the next village"
Christoff, says...
10:51am Wed 12 Mar 08
Forest Saint wrote:what's a drift? I'm not taking the michael, genuinely do not know what you guys are talking about
Bemused wrote:My point in mentioning the drifts was that the uninitiated could view at first hand the care that the owners take with their animals - it is not simply just a case of letting them loose. Agreed, drifts are dangerous but are also VERY well run by the agisters. If the public attend they are made aware at the very beginning of the dangers faced and also where to stand safely during the drift. How are we going to educate others if we exclude them from seeing the care of these animals????????Forest Saint wrote:If you want to be educated DO NOT visit the local drifts. These are working drifts conducted by the owners and agisters, they are dangerous places for the uninitiated. If you require more information, either try to attend the excellent Forest centre at the New Forest Show, or contact the National Park, all with the exception of Alan Rice should be able to steer your enquiry in the right direction. We also have an excellent resource in the New forest centre Lyndhurst.hmm wrote: Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own petsBTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers. Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars? Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen. If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions. Visit the Verderers Website.
Bemused, says...
11:02am Wed 12 Mar 08
Christoff wrote:A drift is conducted usually in the Autumn, it's purpose to round up the animals, so they can be checked over, male foals removed, and female foals recorded and branded for passports. At this time Ponies may also be wormed have collars placed on them if required, and re-branded if ownership has changed, or removed from the open forest if needed. By it's very nature a drift is conducted at high speed as ponies run in herds to be rounded up. The riders are usually commoners riding forest type ponies that are used to riding on this type of ground
Forest Saint wrote:what's a drift? I'm not taking the michael, genuinely do not know what you guys are talking aboutBemused wrote:My point in mentioning the drifts was that the uninitiated could view at first hand the care that the owners take with their animals - it is not simply just a case of letting them loose. Agreed, drifts are dangerous but are also VERY well run by the agisters. If the public attend they are made aware at the very beginning of the dangers faced and also where to stand safely during the drift. How are we going to educate others if we exclude them from seeing the care of these animals????????Forest Saint wrote:If you want to be educated DO NOT visit the local drifts. These are working drifts conducted by the owners and agisters, they are dangerous places for the uninitiated. If you require more information, either try to attend the excellent Forest centre at the New Forest Show, or contact the National Park, all with the exception of Alan Rice should be able to steer your enquiry in the right direction. We also have an excellent resource in the New forest centre Lyndhurst.hmm wrote: Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own petsBTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers. Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars? Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen. If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions. Visit the Verderers Website.
Hee Hee, says...
11:27am Wed 12 Mar 08
I drove round a corner the other day, and a Donkey was in the road, I thought
Eore eore eore not to be there.
Eore eore eore not to be there.
Christoff, says...
11:48am Wed 12 Mar 08
Bemused wrote:thanks
Christoff wrote:A drift is conducted usually in the Autumn, it's purpose to round up the animals, so they can be checked over, male foals removed, and female foals recorded and branded for passports. At this time Ponies may also be wormed have collars placed on them if required, and re-branded if ownership has changed, or removed from the open forest if needed. By it's very nature a drift is conducted at high speed as ponies run in herds to be rounded up. The riders are usually commoners riding forest type ponies that are used to riding on this type of groundForest Saint wrote:what's a drift? I'm not taking the michael, genuinely do not know what you guys are talking aboutBemused wrote:My point in mentioning the drifts was that the uninitiated could view at first hand the care that the owners take with their animals - it is not simply just a case of letting them loose. Agreed, drifts are dangerous but are also VERY well run by the agisters. If the public attend they are made aware at the very beginning of the dangers faced and also where to stand safely during the drift. How are we going to educate others if we exclude them from seeing the care of these animals????????Forest Saint wrote:If you want to be educated DO NOT visit the local drifts. These are working drifts conducted by the owners and agisters, they are dangerous places for the uninitiated. If you require more information, either try to attend the excellent Forest centre at the New Forest Show, or contact the National Park, all with the exception of Alan Rice should be able to steer your enquiry in the right direction. We also have an excellent resource in the New forest centre Lyndhurst.hmm wrote: Get the locals to follow the rules when it comes to speeding Get the locals to put relective collars on their animals, i know they will come back with "they will get caught up by them" You can buy collars and leg bands that snap under reasonable pressure. Until then then no one else should foot the bill as people cant put their hand in their pockets for their own petsBTW, the majority of commoners DO have reflective collars on their animals - it is encouraged by the Verderers. Agreed, locals are as bad as non-locals with speed, but no-one is asking for non-owners to foot the bill for collars? Do you know how much they cost? £1. If you see a horse without one, it may simply be that the horse has lost it - it does happen. If you want to be educated, visit a round-up in the Autumn, there are plenty there who can answer your questions. Visit the Verderers Website.
Stephen, Aberdeen says...
12:25pm Wed 12 Mar 08
It's the animals which need fencing in, not the roads!!
Claire, Holbury says...
12:46pm Wed 12 Mar 08
I own a horse and regularly ride in the New Forest, I personally cant believe the stupids comments made above.
HORSES WERE ON THE FOREST BEFORE CARS!
The problem is speeding drivers, I keep to the 40mph limit and nearly everytime I drive on the road to Hilltop I am overtaken by drivers of all ages, fences will not solve the problem and making them invisible is one of the most stupid ideas I have heard of, if we cant see them the ponies wont either and will end up getting injured.
Personally the best idea will be for regular speed traps along these roads. I find the Bealulieu road is at its worst when there is event on at Beaulieu Motor Museum maybe the "Lord" could put some money towards making the road safer!
HORSES WERE ON THE FOREST BEFORE CARS!
The problem is speeding drivers, I keep to the 40mph limit and nearly everytime I drive on the road to Hilltop I am overtaken by drivers of all ages, fences will not solve the problem and making them invisible is one of the most stupid ideas I have heard of, if we cant see them the ponies wont either and will end up getting injured.
Personally the best idea will be for regular speed traps along these roads. I find the Bealulieu road is at its worst when there is event on at Beaulieu Motor Museum maybe the "Lord" could put some money towards making the road safer!
GORF, SOTON says...
12:56pm Wed 12 Mar 08
maybe all horses etc should be better equiped with high visability straps around legs and kneck
Hunter of New Forset, Southampton says...
1:30pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Hi if wasn't for the horses the roads would not be there. Why do we always blame the animals when it is our fault. Keep speed down. fences are not the answer Dartmoor is great only has the major roads fenced other roads you can't go fast on due to conditions. Please keep the fences away. it is our right to ROAM!!!
Pony & Trap, says...
1:45pm Wed 12 Mar 08
The road from Cadnam to Brockenhurst is already fenced, in case the NPA hadn't noticed
hmm, says...
2:04pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Horses dont pay road tax and dont pick up their poop. They also hang around in groups
Ana, Southampton says...
3:36pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Claire wrote:i agree.... totally
I own a horse and regularly ride in the New Forest, I personally cant believe the stupids comments made above. HORSES WERE ON THE FOREST BEFORE CARS! The problem is speeding drivers, I keep to the 40mph limit and nearly everytime I drive on the road to Hilltop I am overtaken by drivers of all ages, fences will not solve the problem and making them invisible is one of the most stupid ideas I have heard of, if we cant see them the ponies wont either and will end up getting injured. Personally the best idea will be for regular speed traps along these roads. I find the Bealulieu road is at its worst when there is event on at Beaulieu Motor Museum maybe the \"Lord\" could put some money towards making the road safer!
the road was put through the forset these animal and im not just taking horse are part of the forset and what its all about..... if people dont want to drive through cautiously and carefully then find another route where no one can be hurt.....
people who drive like idiots and over the speed limit dont just injure and kill horses and animals but people too...
Dave, Hedge End says...
4:13pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Pony & Trap: The road from Cadnam to Brockenhurst is already fenced because it is an A road. Likewise the A31 and A35 across the New Forest are fenced because the speed limit is higher on these roads. The roads mentioned (e.g. Lymington - Dibden via Beaulieu) are not fenced because they are B class roads where 40mph is the limit. Why not put in an average speed sensor at Lymington and one at Dibden and fine/give points to everyone who averages more than 40mph between the two points?
F. Labbergasted, Totton says...
8:28pm Wed 12 Mar 08
Everybody speeds across the forest, even those who are calling for drivers to go slower! If people did drive with more care and attention and without speeding then that might prove to be a sensible compromise, but it will never happen! Totally agree that Mr Rice should stand down however, he really is out of touch with the way the forest is run.
Tony Gray, says...
9:01pm Wed 12 Mar 08
This has been the most stupid idea for Forest management that I have ever heard!So who is next to suggest the abolition of commoning? Are we seeing here an attempt to destroy the New Forest and National Park status in one go? Alan Rice should know better,as a National Park, commoning and unfenced roads go together, the way forward is to reduce the use,speeding and pig headedness of drivers!
Maybe the time has come to remove the tarmac from Forest roads and return them back to Forest tracks!
Maybe the time has come to remove the tarmac from Forest roads and return them back to Forest tracks!
annoyed, holbury says...
10:49pm Wed 12 Mar 08
What a load of nonsense, New Forest gains a lot of tourists for the fact that these animals roam free. Fences would make it look like large gardens and invisible fences would hurt both animal and us.
Want to live in the Forest, keep your wits about you and speed down..those visiting enjoy but keep to within limit and remember the animal has right of way here.
Want to live in the Forest, keep your wits about you and speed down..those visiting enjoy but keep to within limit and remember the animal has right of way here.
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Adrian Smith, says...
6:30am Wed 12 Mar 08
At least he gets it.
Alan misses the point (again).