Fears of return to rubbish mountains in Southampton

Overflowing bins in Southampton

Overflowing bins in Southampton

First published in Politics Daily Echo: Photograph of the Author by , Politics and business reporter

STREETS and parks littered with rubbish, pensioners struggling to pay their bills, and a rise in youth crime and vandalism.

That’s the vision of Southampton that residents’ associations and youth workers fear will be the result of “appalling” budget cuts being proposed by Labour leaders at the city council.

Up to 327 jobs will be axed, services will be slashed and residents hit with new charges to save nearly £20m in the deepest budget cuts ever proposed.

Among the cost-cutting the council’s youth service and a children’s home will be closed down, parks and street cleaning budgets will be hacked back, new parking charges will be brought in and weekly collections of household rubbish have been put under threat.

And council tax in the city will rise by two per cent, or £25, for a typical band D property.

Pensioners in the city face the additional loss of a ten per cent council discount from April, leaving them £100 or more out of pocket.

And those with a residents’ parking permit will be made to pay a new £30 charge to park outside their homes, as well as up to £50 to have their garden waste collected.

Don Harper, secretary of the city’s pensioner’s forum, said many would have to make “tough choices” over heating or food bills.

“A lot of the Labour party supporters seem to think we’re all rich pensioners, but that is just not true. £100 is a lot of money for pensioners on fixed incomes,” he said.

Peter Wirgman, chairman of the Southampton Federation of Residents’ Associations, said: “The things that greatly worry me are the street cleaning and bin collections. In the areas I live the local residents’ associations are already having to do their own litter picks because of the lack of cleaning by the council.

“In some parts of Portswood there’s more vegetation in the gutter than in gardens. Going to fortnightly collections would be awful for all the houses in multiple occupation that produce a lot more waste. It all adds up to people on fixed incomes being asked to find more and more money.”

Jim Cappleman, a community activist and former chairman of the defunct Flowers Tenants and Residents’ Association, said: “I’m appalled by what’s going on. At the end of the day it’s the poorest residents that are going to suffer. How much more are they going to tax people whose budgets are already stretched to the extreme?”

Jo Ash, chief executive of Southampton Voluntary Services, said: “We are profoundly concerned about the scale of the proposed cuts and the impact it will have on local voluntary organisations and the most vulnerable people and communities that they support.”

She said meetings were being arranged with the council to present evidence and information on the impact the cuts will have on people and services.

She added voluntary groups were already experiencing the funding squeeze with increased demand for services and reduced resources.

One council youth worker, who did not want to be named, said staff had been left in “absolute shock” when the news was broken the department was closing with the loss of 29 jobs. “I don’t think anyone expected it,” he said.

He predicted fewer jobless youths helped to find work or training, while the loss of dedicated youth workers could see more petty crime, vandalism and antisocial behaviour.

He added: “Youth centres are places where they can go to feel safe and chat to adults to bring about a positive change to their lives. It will have a detrimental effect.”

Will Rosie, a youth and community worker, said the cuts would put more pressure on church and voluntary groups.

“I’m not surprised they are targeting youth services. Young people don’t tend to know how to use their voice. They are so used to disappointment and being let down by adults they just take it as that. The people that help them to have a voice are no longer going to be there.”

Socialist campaigner and former youth worker of 20 years Nick Chaffey called on Labour to refuse to implement the funding cuts.

“They are going to have a devastating effect on young people. Having support for young people and families can save you a fortune,” he said.

Labour council leaders have blamed Government funding cuts and policies of the previous Tory administration for the scale of the cuts.

Council finance chiefs reckon they will need to save £57m over the next three years, 30 per cent of their £200m budget, excluding schools, benefits and multi-year contracts.

Comments (63)

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12:56pm Wed 14 Nov 12

arthur dalyrimple says...

lets face it , southampton is one big dump now , within ten years it will rival detroit.
lets face it , southampton is one big dump now , within ten years it will rival detroit. arthur dalyrimple
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Lone Ranger. says...

WOW ....... The ex Sun headline writer is back.
.
.... and i couldnt find a "quote" from the ex failed leader or his deputy .... come on Echo ... lets get the quotes in
WOW ....... The ex Sun headline writer is back. . .... and i couldnt find a "quote" from the ex failed leader or his deputy .... come on Echo ... lets get the quotes in Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

1:03pm Wed 14 Nov 12

AndyAndrews says...

Ridiculous headline: there's nothing in the actual article to suggest a return to rubbish mountains in the streets...
Ridiculous headline: there's nothing in the actual article to suggest a return to rubbish mountains in the streets... AndyAndrews
  • Score: 0

1:05pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Lone Ranger. says...

Oh yes ...... the Echo headline writer also failed to mention that ....... "People were dying in the street" ......
Oh yes ...... the Echo headline writer also failed to mention that ....... "People were dying in the street" ...... Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Linesman says...

I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article.

For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation.

It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise.

The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face.

If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount.

Verdict.

There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.
I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article. For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation. It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise. The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face. If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount. Verdict. There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings. Linesman
  • Score: 0

1:15pm Wed 14 Nov 12

bernard7 says...

Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?
Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while? bernard7
  • Score: 0

1:28pm Wed 14 Nov 12

bigfella777 says...

Oh here we go the poor old pensioners line again.There are plenty of people who get half what a pensioner gets a week without the luxury of free bus travel,cheap fish and chips,cheap haircuts ect.
Oh here we go the poor old pensioners line again.There are plenty of people who get half what a pensioner gets a week without the luxury of free bus travel,cheap fish and chips,cheap haircuts ect. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

1:33pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

1:39pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Ford Prefect says...

Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days?

What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts.

How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do? Ford Prefect
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Wed 14 Nov 12

nedscrumpo says...

The galling thing is the banks of CAPITA staff tapping away at their computers. There's hundreds of them!
The galling thing is the banks of CAPITA staff tapping away at their computers. There's hundreds of them! nedscrumpo
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Wed 14 Nov 12

ohec says...

It doesn't matter what cuts you talk about the first group to moan is always the pensioners and it gets a bit tiring, everybody is suffering (well almost) its not easy for anybody but until we can get rid of the present government or at least get them to do one of their famous U turns there is not a lot we can do, its no good having a go at S.C.C its central government that are to blame councils all over the country are in the same position, strikes/protests/ demonstrations are a pointless self defeating exercise and will only harm everybody whilst achieving nothing. All of this clap trap Labour vs Tory and how we got here is a complete waste of time we are where we are and we just have to suck it up until such times as the present government change their minds or we get rid of them.
It doesn't matter what cuts you talk about the first group to moan is always the pensioners and it gets a bit tiring, everybody is suffering (well almost) its not easy for anybody but until we can get rid of the present government or at least get them to do one of their famous U turns there is not a lot we can do, its no good having a go at S.C.C its central government that are to blame councils all over the country are in the same position, strikes/protests/ demonstrations are a pointless self defeating exercise and will only harm everybody whilst achieving nothing. All of this clap trap Labour vs Tory and how we got here is a complete waste of time we are where we are and we just have to suck it up until such times as the present government change their minds or we get rid of them. ohec
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Wed 14 Nov 12

davel_cats says...

"Return to Rubbish Mountain" - wasn't that a film?

Labour nationally destroyed the British economy so is it any surprise that Labour locally is destroying the Southampton economy?
"Return to Rubbish Mountain" - wasn't that a film? Labour nationally destroyed the British economy so is it any surprise that Labour locally is destroying the Southampton economy? davel_cats
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sovietobserver says...

bernard7 wrote:
Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?
What about disabled residents ?
Will the elderly carless have to take their smelly waste to the tip on the buses, will that be allowed ?
Or maybe some enterprising business will take it for them for a small charge.
Oh no, privatisation will be looming, that will upset the unions.
Back to the headline !
[quote][p][bold]bernard7[/bold] wrote: Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?[/p][/quote]What about disabled residents ? Will the elderly carless have to take their smelly waste to the tip on the buses, will that be allowed ? Or maybe some enterprising business will take it for them for a small charge. Oh no, privatisation will be looming, that will upset the unions. Back to the headline ! Sovietobserver
  • Score: 0

1:48pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Shoong says...

Linesman wrote:
I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article.

For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation.

It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise.

The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face.

If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount.

Verdict.

There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.
So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there.

As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article. For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation. It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise. The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face. If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount. Verdict. There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.[/p][/quote]So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there. As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system. Shoong
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Wed 14 Nov 12

sarfhamton says...

bigfella777 wrote:
Oh here we go the poor old pensioners line again.There are plenty of people who get half what a pensioner gets a week without the luxury of free bus travel,cheap fish and chips,cheap haircuts ect.
Thing is that 99% pensioners have worked hard all their lives and now they are told that services and benefits will be cut.

A cheap fishcake and a 1/2 price perm does not really make up for it.
[quote][p][bold]bigfella777[/bold] wrote: Oh here we go the poor old pensioners line again.There are plenty of people who get half what a pensioner gets a week without the luxury of free bus travel,cheap fish and chips,cheap haircuts ect.[/p][/quote]Thing is that 99% pensioners have worked hard all their lives and now they are told that services and benefits will be cut. A cheap fishcake and a 1/2 price perm does not really make up for it. sarfhamton
  • Score: 0

1:49pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Maine Lobster says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire.
The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement.
If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire. The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement. If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish. Maine Lobster
  • Score: 0

1:52pm Wed 14 Nov 12

localnews says...

If we stopped all this cr@p overseas aid to places like India and China I'd understand things a bit better,seems mad that we give all that money to countries reportedly better off than us whilst putting up with all these cuts
If we stopped all this cr@p overseas aid to places like India and China I'd understand things a bit better,seems mad that we give all that money to countries reportedly better off than us whilst putting up with all these cuts localnews
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Ford Prefect wrote:
Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days?

What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts.

How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
You have to be kidding!

The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy.

Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."?

The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts.

Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.
[quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?[/p][/quote]You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

1:57pm Wed 14 Nov 12

bigfella777 says...

Everytime you pay 20% VAT 1.5% goes to Europe, yet some countries in the EU only charge 10% VAT, we are getting raped by Europe,vote UKIP.
Everytime you pay 20% VAT 1.5% goes to Europe, yet some countries in the EU only charge 10% VAT, we are getting raped by Europe,vote UKIP. bigfella777
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Ford Prefect says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.
I look forward to seeing Royston Smith quoted as saying that he could have avoided all the current cuts if only his "small" pay cut had been continued. He won't (unless he's vene more shameless than I thought) becuase whoever was in charge woudl be in the same position.

Do you remember when all the nurses, doctors, social workers, police officers and firefighters caused a global financial crisis? No? Neither do I.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?[/p][/quote]You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.[/p][/quote]I look forward to seeing Royston Smith quoted as saying that he could have avoided all the current cuts if only his "small" pay cut had been continued. He won't (unless he's vene more shameless than I thought) becuase whoever was in charge woudl be in the same position. Do you remember when all the nurses, doctors, social workers, police officers and firefighters caused a global financial crisis? No? Neither do I. Ford Prefect
  • Score: 0

2:07pm Wed 14 Nov 12

George4th says...

Maine Lobster wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire.
The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement.
If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.
The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!)
The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc.
>
The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!!
To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?!
[quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire. The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement. If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.[/p][/quote]The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!) The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc. > The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!! To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?! George4th
  • Score: 0

2:09pm Wed 14 Nov 12

George4th says...

George4th wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire.
The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement.
If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.
The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!)
The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc.
>
The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!!
To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?!
Sorry about the typos - I was in a hurry!
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire. The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement. If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.[/p][/quote]The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!) The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc. > The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!! To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?![/p][/quote]Sorry about the typos - I was in a hurry! George4th
  • Score: 0

2:11pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Ford Prefect wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.
I look forward to seeing Royston Smith quoted as saying that he could have avoided all the current cuts if only his "small" pay cut had been continued. He won't (unless he's vene more shameless than I thought) becuase whoever was in charge woudl be in the same position.

Do you remember when all the nurses, doctors, social workers, police officers and firefighters caused a global financial crisis? No? Neither do I.
Ford Prefect:

The financial crisis in this country is to a large degree down to the mismanagement of the economy by the last labour government.

This may help provide a bit of background for you

"The damage Labour did to our economy during its 13 years in power, was highlighted in a recent article which offers shocking evidence of Labour’s gratituous build-up of debt, through a relentles state largesse, spending more than we realise in income, through taxation. Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the banking crisis (to which Gordon Brown’s change from robust to lax scrutiny was a major contributor) had a pretty minor role in overall terms.
Between 2000 and 2010, allowing for inflation state expenditure increased by 53% to £688 billion (between 2002 and 2CC alone, it rose by 40%). Remember, this was the time when Gordon Brown was saying ‘no boom and bust’ as he trousered billions in tax receipts, whilst borrowing ever more, house prices literally went through the roof
For example, social security benefits and tax credits now account for £209 billion, comparable to health and education combined, allowing some families to claim more than £26,000 untaxed per annum in benefits. Is that fair when the average wage Suffolk is closer to £25,000, taxed?"

http://ipswichpoliti
cs.blogspot.co.uk/20
12/05/how-labour-wre
cked-our-economy.htm
l
[quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?[/p][/quote]You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.[/p][/quote]I look forward to seeing Royston Smith quoted as saying that he could have avoided all the current cuts if only his "small" pay cut had been continued. He won't (unless he's vene more shameless than I thought) becuase whoever was in charge woudl be in the same position. Do you remember when all the nurses, doctors, social workers, police officers and firefighters caused a global financial crisis? No? Neither do I.[/p][/quote]Ford Prefect: The financial crisis in this country is to a large degree down to the mismanagement of the economy by the last labour government. This may help provide a bit of background for you "The damage Labour did to our economy during its 13 years in power, was highlighted in a recent article which offers shocking evidence of Labour’s gratituous build-up of debt, through a relentles state largesse, spending more than we realise in income, through taxation. Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the banking crisis (to which Gordon Brown’s change from robust to lax scrutiny was a major contributor) had a pretty minor role in overall terms. Between 2000 and 2010, allowing for inflation state expenditure increased by 53% to £688 billion (between 2002 and 2CC alone, it rose by 40%). Remember, this was the time when Gordon Brown was saying ‘no boom and bust’ as he trousered billions in tax receipts, whilst borrowing ever more, house prices literally went through the roof For example, social security benefits and tax credits now account for £209 billion, comparable to health and education combined, allowing some families to claim more than £26,000 untaxed per annum in benefits. Is that fair when the average wage Suffolk is closer to £25,000, taxed?" http://ipswichpoliti cs.blogspot.co.uk/20 12/05/how-labour-wre cked-our-economy.htm l Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:19pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Article: "How Gordon Brown wrecked the UK economy"

"When Labour took power in 1997, public spending was about 19 percentage points lower than in Sweden (58% vs. 39%.) Tony Blair and his chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown initially tried to reassure markets with a responsible fiscal policy. But in their second term Brown started raising spending as a share of GDP. Today UK spending is only about 2 percentage points behind Sweden (53% vs. 51%.) Some progressives excuse this performance by pointing to the fact that spending normally rises in recessions. But this argument fails for several reasons. First, if true then spending should fall as a share of GDP during good times. But Brown did exactly the opposite during the preceding boom years. He ran the same sort of deficits that Krugman excoriated Bush for running, but Brown received praise from Krugman. Not only did spending not decline as a share of GDP during the boom years–it actually rose. And of course Britain also had many of the same dysfunctional banking policies as the US, such as privatizing gains and socializing losses.

There is another problem with the recession excuse for high UK spending; it isn’t clear that the UK will recover from the recession. This may be the new normal. And that’s because the huge expansion of the British state has damaged the supply-side of the UK economy, leading many economists to predict trend growth for the foreseeable future. No wonder the Cameron government sees a need to restrain spending."

http://www.themoneyi
llusion.com/?p=9521
Article: "How Gordon Brown wrecked the UK economy" "When Labour took power in 1997, public spending was about 19 percentage points lower than in Sweden (58% vs. 39%.) Tony Blair and his chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown initially tried to reassure markets with a responsible fiscal policy. But in their second term Brown started raising spending as a share of GDP. Today UK spending is only about 2 percentage points behind Sweden (53% vs. 51%.) Some progressives excuse this performance by pointing to the fact that spending normally rises in recessions. But this argument fails for several reasons. First, if true then spending should fall as a share of GDP during good times. But Brown did exactly the opposite during the preceding boom years. He ran the same sort of deficits that Krugman excoriated Bush for running, but Brown received praise from Krugman. Not only did spending not decline as a share of GDP during the boom years–it actually rose. And of course Britain also had many of the same dysfunctional banking policies as the US, such as privatizing gains and socializing losses. There is another problem with the recession excuse for high UK spending; it isn’t clear that the UK will recover from the recession. This may be the new normal. And that’s because the huge expansion of the British state has damaged the supply-side of the UK economy, leading many economists to predict trend growth for the foreseeable future. No wonder the Cameron government sees a need to restrain spending." http://www.themoneyi llusion.com/?p=9521 Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Alistair Darling condemed Brown's 'appalling behaviour and flawed judgment'

"Mr Darling wrote that in the summer of 2008, when the Treasury was warning that Britain faced the worst recession since the Second World War, Mr Brown simply refused to believe it, and began crafting his own economic strategy based on the idea that the downturn would only last six months."

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2033548/Gordon-Brown
-thought-economic-cr
ash-months-Alastair-
Darling-claims-bombs
hell-memoirs.html
Alistair Darling condemed Brown's 'appalling behaviour and flawed judgment' "Mr Darling wrote that in the summer of 2008, when the Treasury was warning that Britain faced the worst recession since the Second World War, Mr Brown simply refused to believe it, and began crafting his own economic strategy based on the idea that the downturn would only last six months." http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2033548/Gordon-Brown -thought-economic-cr ash-months-Alastair- Darling-claims-bombs hell-memoirs.html Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Wed 14 Nov 12

miltonarcher says...

George4th wrote:
George4th wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_



together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire.
The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement.
If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.
The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!)
The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc.
>
The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!!
To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?!
Sorry about the typos - I was in a hurry!
The typos dont detract from the facts as set out in your post. Warning, Ed Balls is waiting to repeat the mistakes of the Brown government, you have been warned.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire. The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement. If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.[/p][/quote]The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!) The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc. > The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!! To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?![/p][/quote]Sorry about the typos - I was in a hurry![/p][/quote]The typos dont detract from the facts as set out in your post. Warning, Ed Balls is waiting to repeat the mistakes of the Brown government, you have been warned. miltonarcher
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

"How the Labour Government ruined Great Britain "

http://www.squidoo.c
om/how-the-labour-go
vernment
"How the Labour Government ruined Great Britain " http://www.squidoo.c om/how-the-labour-go vernment Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:34pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Big Mac says...

Call out for Southy!

Talking rubbish is his favorite subject.
Call out for Southy! Talking rubbish is his favorite subject. Big Mac
  • Score: 0

2:37pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

"Labour has broken Britain for at least a generation, if not forever"

http://politicsontoa
st.com/2011/11/16/la
bour-has-broken-brit
ain-for-at-least-a-g
eneration-if-not-for
ever/
"Labour has broken Britain for at least a generation, if not forever" http://politicsontoa st.com/2011/11/16/la bour-has-broken-brit ain-for-at-least-a-g eneration-if-not-for ever/ Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

2:40pm Wed 14 Nov 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

Have spent the last fortnight picking up fireworks debris from Daisy Dip, why don't people clear their mess up behind them, apart frightening the life out local pets, they could least pick up the mess.
Have spent the last fortnight picking up fireworks debris from Daisy Dip, why don't people clear their mess up behind them, apart frightening the life out local pets, they could least pick up the mess. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Wed 14 Nov 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

bernard7 wrote:
Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?
I agree with the sentiment but some of us don't have any transport to get the rubbish to the tip, that's what I pay my Council Tax for, to pay for the services I demand. The blames lies in not increasing the Council Tax (vote catching?) to cater for increased costs, and Government cutting subsidies, the workers are as much victims as villains here.
[quote][p][bold]bernard7[/bold] wrote: Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?[/p][/quote]I agree with the sentiment but some of us don't have any transport to get the rubbish to the tip, that's what I pay my Council Tax for, to pay for the services I demand. The blames lies in not increasing the Council Tax (vote catching?) to cater for increased costs, and Government cutting subsidies, the workers are as much victims as villains here. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

2:52pm Wed 14 Nov 12

George4th says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
"How the Labour Government ruined Great Britain "

http://www.squidoo.c

om/how-the-labour-go

vernment
Read it and agree with it!
>
Labour totally screwed the future for generations to come. They sold our young down the river.
>
And at the end of the day what would Labour describe as their legacy?
>
Well Tony Blair et al don't care because they and their families are doing very nicely thank you very much!
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: "How the Labour Government ruined Great Britain " http://www.squidoo.c om/how-the-labour-go vernment[/p][/quote]Read it and agree with it! > Labour totally screwed the future for generations to come. They sold our young down the river. > And at the end of the day what would Labour describe as their legacy? > Well Tony Blair et al don't care because they and their families are doing very nicely thank you very much! George4th
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Over the Edge says...

Peter Wirgman, chairman of the Southampton Federation of Residents’ Associations, said: “The things that greatly worry me are the street cleaning and bin collections. In the areas I live the local residents’ associations are already having to do their own litter picks because of the lack of cleaning by the council.

Welcome to Mr CaMoron's Big Society
Peter Wirgman, chairman of the Southampton Federation of Residents’ Associations, said: “The things that greatly worry me are the street cleaning and bin collections. In the areas I live the local residents’ associations are already having to do their own litter picks because of the lack of cleaning by the council. Welcome to Mr CaMoron's Big Society Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

3:13pm Wed 14 Nov 12

ohec says...

If we must have the debate about who caused what then as far as i am concerned Maggie Thatcher is to blame as it was her that decided we no longer wanted to be an industrialised nation and what she didn't run into the ground she sold off to foreigners, it was her that thought it a good idea to sell off(give them away)our council houses and it was her that declared everybody has the right to own their own home
(whether they could afford it or not) that woman done more damage to this country than Hitler could have dreamed of. I am not saying that Labour didn't make mistakes but financing 2 wars which were none of our business coupled with the global economic meltdown was the straw that broke the camels back and nobody could have foreseen that coming. The biggest drain on our economy is the welfare system and both parties have used it to buy votes to the extent that many people are better of not working, people were shifted from job seekers to incapacity benefit in order to massage unemployment figures and many of those people worked in our traditional industries that Mrs T closed down, we have whole families where no one works or is ever likely too.
Girls that left school only to have babies in order to get accommodation and a workless lifestyle. So now major cuts in the welfare bill are needed and the best way to achieve that is to scrap child benefit altogether, just give 12 months notice that the benefit will cease for all newborns and then as the years go by the saving will increase.You can't just keep driving people or councils into the ground without the sort of repercussions we are now seeing in Europe.
If we must have the debate about who caused what then as far as i am concerned Maggie Thatcher is to blame as it was her that decided we no longer wanted to be an industrialised nation and what she didn't run into the ground she sold off to foreigners, it was her that thought it a good idea to sell off(give them away)our council houses and it was her that declared everybody has the right to own their own home (whether they could afford it or not) that woman done more damage to this country than Hitler could have dreamed of. I am not saying that Labour didn't make mistakes but financing 2 wars which were none of our business coupled with the global economic meltdown was the straw that broke the camels back and nobody could have foreseen that coming. The biggest drain on our economy is the welfare system and both parties have used it to buy votes to the extent that many people are better of not working, people were shifted from job seekers to incapacity benefit in order to massage unemployment figures and many of those people worked in our traditional industries that Mrs T closed down, we have whole families where no one works or is ever likely too. Girls that left school only to have babies in order to get accommodation and a workless lifestyle. So now major cuts in the welfare bill are needed and the best way to achieve that is to scrap child benefit altogether, just give 12 months notice that the benefit will cease for all newborns and then as the years go by the saving will increase.You can't just keep driving people or councils into the ground without the sort of repercussions we are now seeing in Europe. ohec
  • Score: 0

3:14pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Over the Edge says...

Eric Pickles, George Osborn and David CaMoron should hang their rich heads in shame.

The private sector will pick up the redundancies from the public sector,says Mr CaMoron,,,,,oh no it won't

CaMoron is hell bent on the Big Society, cutting budgets to Local Authorities all over the country will ensure that if volunteers don't do it, the services will cease,,,,,,all youth provision in the city scrapped because of Government cuts,,the future of our city is being betrayed,,,you wonder why they cause trouble
Eric Pickles, George Osborn and David CaMoron should hang their rich heads in shame. The private sector will pick up the redundancies from the public sector,says Mr CaMoron,,,,,oh no it won't CaMoron is hell bent on the Big Society, cutting budgets to Local Authorities all over the country will ensure that if volunteers don't do it, the services will cease,,,,,,all youth provision in the city scrapped because of Government cuts,,the future of our city is being betrayed,,,you wonder why they cause trouble Over the Edge
  • Score: 0

3:19pm Wed 14 Nov 12

debs1909 says...

Doesn't matter who's in power, we are gonna get taxed to the hilt, you cant blame the local councils budgets are decided in Westminster, yes the previous council leaders tried to save jobs but that wasn't what the greedy selfish public sector workers wanted, they would prefer to have their colleagues out of a job than take a pay cut
Doesn't matter who's in power, we are gonna get taxed to the hilt, you cant blame the local councils budgets are decided in Westminster, yes the previous council leaders tried to save jobs but that wasn't what the greedy selfish public sector workers wanted, they would prefer to have their colleagues out of a job than take a pay cut debs1909
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Wed 14 Nov 12

wizard says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
"Labour has broken Britain for at least a generation, if not forever"

http://politicsontoa

st.com/2011/11/16/la

bour-has-broken-brit

ain-for-at-least-a-g

eneration-if-not-for

ever/
Go away Smithy you Fat old git! no one is interested in you anymore! get it???
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: "Labour has broken Britain for at least a generation, if not forever" http://politicsontoa st.com/2011/11/16/la bour-has-broken-brit ain-for-at-least-a-g eneration-if-not-for ever/[/p][/quote]Go away Smithy you Fat old git! no one is interested in you anymore! get it??? wizard
  • Score: 0

3:29pm Wed 14 Nov 12

peenut81 says...

Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons. peenut81
  • Score: 0

3:33pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Shoong says...

peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
A very insightful post, you've obviously done some work.

What a shame you had to ruin it by getting all childish at the end.

That's the mentality that comes with the territory I suppose.
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]A very insightful post, you've obviously done some work. What a shame you had to ruin it by getting all childish at the end. That's the mentality that comes with the territory I suppose. Shoong
  • Score: 0

3:48pm Wed 14 Nov 12

peenut81 says...

^^^ yeah sorry shoong, just get wound up when the same faces on here repeat the same message, that is how false history becomes fact, repetition without challenge.
And the sites these guys have linked are written by people with a right wing, market led agenda.
Whenever people repeat the mantra of labour always bankrupts britain i say you must understand why..... Tories hate the masses, in the City their mates, the bankers, accountants, lawyers through 'the invisible hand of the market ' withdraw money from this country as they fear a socialist govt. will rightly confiscate it as ill gotten.
There is a concept called the reserve labour force and it is very important to understanding why we are where we are today, with globalisation capitalists do not need 55 million working class people in the UK. Pensioners (now their funds have been robbed)are of even less use to the trading desks of London, NY and Shanghai and that is why they are being hit.
Another point to make, when ever regulation was threatened (rarely) those on the right always argue 'job losses and lack of competititveness, capitalism is always a race to the bottom for society and a race to cartels and monopoly. Its broken and we need to work something else out, and soon cos 2billion asians just joined us in the competition and the numbers favour them
^^^ yeah sorry shoong, just get wound up when the same faces on here repeat the same message, that is how false history becomes fact, repetition without challenge. And the sites these guys have linked are written by people with a right wing, market led agenda. Whenever people repeat the mantra of labour always bankrupts britain i say you must understand why..... Tories hate the masses, in the City their mates, the bankers, accountants, lawyers through 'the invisible hand of the market ' withdraw money from this country as they fear a socialist govt. will rightly confiscate it as ill gotten. There is a concept called the reserve labour force and it is very important to understanding why we are where we are today, with globalisation capitalists do not need 55 million working class people in the UK. Pensioners (now their funds have been robbed)are of even less use to the trading desks of London, NY and Shanghai and that is why they are being hit. Another point to make, when ever regulation was threatened (rarely) those on the right always argue 'job losses and lack of competititveness, capitalism is always a race to the bottom for society and a race to cartels and monopoly. Its broken and we need to work something else out, and soon cos 2billion asians just joined us in the competition and the numbers favour them peenut81
  • Score: 0

3:54pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Ford Prefect says...

Interesting cut and paste job from Sotonians-pulling-to
gether, but a little selective.

If this country's financial problems are all Labour's fault, why did large parts of the western world also enter recession and have large deficits? Gordon Brown wasn't running Greece, Spain, Portugal, France or the USA.

And it's the usual Tory tactic of setting the poor against the poor. Some families get more on benefits than pthers earn before tax? How many families get £26000 in benefits? What are their circumstances? Do they deliberately choose not to work or are they unable to either through disability or because of our own double dip recession? Yes,I'm sure there are examples of work-shy scroungers but that's a very small number and they are not responsible for the state of the UK or global economies.

How does this compare with people with inherited wealth and trust funds? How does it compare with individuals worth billions paying proportionately less tax than their cleaners? How about corporations who make profits in Luxembourg but somehow make losses in the UK when it comes to tax?

These cuts are not inevitable. They are not the legacy of mismanagement by the last governmebnt. They are a political decision made by a right-wing government committed to shrinking the size of the state. It's a legitimate point of view even if I disagree with it. But please be honest enough to admit that that is what is going on.
Interesting cut and paste job from Sotonians-pulling-to gether, but a little selective. If this country's financial problems are all Labour's fault, why did large parts of the western world also enter recession and have large deficits? Gordon Brown wasn't running Greece, Spain, Portugal, France or the USA. And it's the usual Tory tactic of setting the poor against the poor. Some families get more on benefits than pthers earn before tax? How many families get £26000 in benefits? What are their circumstances? Do they deliberately choose not to work or are they unable to either through disability or because of our own double dip recession? Yes,I'm sure there are examples of work-shy scroungers but that's a very small number and they are not responsible for the state of the UK or global economies. How does this compare with people with inherited wealth and trust funds? How does it compare with individuals worth billions paying proportionately less tax than their cleaners? How about corporations who make profits in Luxembourg but somehow make losses in the UK when it comes to tax? These cuts are not inevitable. They are not the legacy of mismanagement by the last governmebnt. They are a political decision made by a right-wing government committed to shrinking the size of the state. It's a legitimate point of view even if I disagree with it. But please be honest enough to admit that that is what is going on. Ford Prefect
  • Score: 0

4:04pm Wed 14 Nov 12

aldermoorboy says...

Labour could have saved many jobs if they had merged some departments with the IOW ( as the Tories had set up).
Shame on you lying Labour Council, what a disgrace you are, I hope our children don't suffer to much.
Vote Tory in 2014 for honest councillors.
Labour could have saved many jobs if they had merged some departments with the IOW ( as the Tories had set up). Shame on you lying Labour Council, what a disgrace you are, I hope our children don't suffer to much. Vote Tory in 2014 for honest councillors. aldermoorboy
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Wed 14 Nov 12

southy says...

peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
Well said and its what the real socialist have been pointing out ever since the days of Neil Kinnock of Labour Leadership.
One Economic and Political Policy with different faces. And those who think Labour can be won back and return good working class Policy are living in a dream world, its Capitalist supporters that run Labour now as they do with the Torys.
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]Well said and its what the real socialist have been pointing out ever since the days of Neil Kinnock of Labour Leadership. One Economic and Political Policy with different faces. And those who think Labour can be won back and return good working class Policy are living in a dream world, its Capitalist supporters that run Labour now as they do with the Torys. southy
  • Score: 0

4:09pm Wed 14 Nov 12

southy says...

Up to 327 jobs will be axed, services will be slashed and residents hit with new charges to save nearly £20m in the deepest budget cuts ever proposed.

Well thats only better by about 75 jobs that the Torys intended to get rid off.
Up to 327 jobs will be axed, services will be slashed and residents hit with new charges to save nearly £20m in the deepest budget cuts ever proposed. Well thats only better by about 75 jobs that the Torys intended to get rid off. southy
  • Score: 0

4:33pm Wed 14 Nov 12

George4th says...

ohec wrote:
If we must have the debate about who caused what then as far as i am concerned Maggie Thatcher is to blame as it was her that decided we no longer wanted to be an industrialised nation and what she didn't run into the ground she sold off to foreigners, it was her that thought it a good idea to sell off(give them away)our council houses and it was her that declared everybody has the right to own their own home
(whether they could afford it or not) that woman done more damage to this country than Hitler could have dreamed of. I am not saying that Labour didn't make mistakes but financing 2 wars which were none of our business coupled with the global economic meltdown was the straw that broke the camels back and nobody could have foreseen that coming. The biggest drain on our economy is the welfare system and both parties have used it to buy votes to the extent that many people are better of not working, people were shifted from job seekers to incapacity benefit in order to massage unemployment figures and many of those people worked in our traditional industries that Mrs T closed down, we have whole families where no one works or is ever likely too.
Girls that left school only to have babies in order to get accommodation and a workless lifestyle. So now major cuts in the welfare bill are needed and the best way to achieve that is to scrap child benefit altogether, just give 12 months notice that the benefit will cease for all newborns and then as the years go by the saving will increase.You can't just keep driving people or councils into the ground without the sort of repercussions we are now seeing in Europe.
If you recall, Thatcher came into power after the Labour government bankrupted the country!! We were controlled by the IMF.
>
Many of our major industries were in irretrievable decline, many subsidised by government and controlled by the Left Wing Unions!! (The Leader of the main Union-TGWU -Jack Jones- turned out to be a Russian Spy!!).
>
Drastic measures were required and bravely taken by our first woman Prime Minister (much to the chagrin of the chauvinist males!)
>
Cameron and Clegg and the coalition inherited a pigs ear of a government and have done a very good job. After the catastrophic mess Labour got us in, we are on the way up, albeit slowly.
>
That's twice in a row Labour have taken us to the door of the IMF. Whose up for third go?!!!!
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: If we must have the debate about who caused what then as far as i am concerned Maggie Thatcher is to blame as it was her that decided we no longer wanted to be an industrialised nation and what she didn't run into the ground she sold off to foreigners, it was her that thought it a good idea to sell off(give them away)our council houses and it was her that declared everybody has the right to own their own home (whether they could afford it or not) that woman done more damage to this country than Hitler could have dreamed of. I am not saying that Labour didn't make mistakes but financing 2 wars which were none of our business coupled with the global economic meltdown was the straw that broke the camels back and nobody could have foreseen that coming. The biggest drain on our economy is the welfare system and both parties have used it to buy votes to the extent that many people are better of not working, people were shifted from job seekers to incapacity benefit in order to massage unemployment figures and many of those people worked in our traditional industries that Mrs T closed down, we have whole families where no one works or is ever likely too. Girls that left school only to have babies in order to get accommodation and a workless lifestyle. So now major cuts in the welfare bill are needed and the best way to achieve that is to scrap child benefit altogether, just give 12 months notice that the benefit will cease for all newborns and then as the years go by the saving will increase.You can't just keep driving people or councils into the ground without the sort of repercussions we are now seeing in Europe.[/p][/quote]If you recall, Thatcher came into power after the Labour government bankrupted the country!! We were controlled by the IMF. > Many of our major industries were in irretrievable decline, many subsidised by government and controlled by the Left Wing Unions!! (The Leader of the main Union-TGWU -Jack Jones- turned out to be a Russian Spy!!). > Drastic measures were required and bravely taken by our first woman Prime Minister (much to the chagrin of the chauvinist males!) > Cameron and Clegg and the coalition inherited a pigs ear of a government and have done a very good job. After the catastrophic mess Labour got us in, we are on the way up, albeit slowly. > That's twice in a row Labour have taken us to the door of the IMF. Whose up for third go?!!!! George4th
  • Score: 0

4:37pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
Well said and its what the real socialist have been pointing out ever since the days of Neil Kinnock of Labour Leadership.
One Economic and Political Policy with different faces. And those who think Labour can be won back and return good working class Policy are living in a dream world, its Capitalist supporters that run Labour now as they do with the Torys.
Your probably right, but look at this way, it's an effective safeguard against the looney tunes left getting in.

Silver linings and all that.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]Well said and its what the real socialist have been pointing out ever since the days of Neil Kinnock of Labour Leadership. One Economic and Political Policy with different faces. And those who think Labour can be won back and return good working class Policy are living in a dream world, its Capitalist supporters that run Labour now as they do with the Torys.[/p][/quote]Your probably right, but look at this way, it's an effective safeguard against the looney tunes left getting in. Silver linings and all that. Shoong
  • Score: 0

5:09pm Wed 14 Nov 12

On the inside says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
bernard7 wrote: Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?
I agree with the sentiment but some of us don't have any transport to get the rubbish to the tip, that's what I pay my Council Tax for, to pay for the services I demand. The blames lies in not increasing the Council Tax (vote catching?) to cater for increased costs, and Government cutting subsidies, the workers are as much victims as villains here.
At last, someone who gets it. You cannot have what you do not pay for. If you keep the council tax artificially low you have to cut services. Of course this is only a small part of the problem which was caused by bankers and has been compounded by the current government.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bernard7[/bold] wrote: Why can't everyone pick up their own rubbish? You made the mess you pick it up. They should get rid of rubbish collection altogether and then fine people who leave rubbish outside their homes, how hard is it to go to the tip once in a while?[/p][/quote]I agree with the sentiment but some of us don't have any transport to get the rubbish to the tip, that's what I pay my Council Tax for, to pay for the services I demand. The blames lies in not increasing the Council Tax (vote catching?) to cater for increased costs, and Government cutting subsidies, the workers are as much victims as villains here.[/p][/quote]At last, someone who gets it. You cannot have what you do not pay for. If you keep the council tax artificially low you have to cut services. Of course this is only a small part of the problem which was caused by bankers and has been compounded by the current government. On the inside
  • Score: 0

5:36pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Linesman says...

How strange!

This article appeared on here earlier today, with the majority of comments being critical of, what appeared to them to be, a biased account.

It must have offended the Echo's political bias to have it pointed out that whilst the previous administration's actions were dictatorial, this administration is involved in consultation which, it is hoped, would not result in the chaos that Royston Smith's dictatorship produced.

It was also pointed out that the city council's finances are very much controlled by the Coalition government's reduction in grant, and not helped by the money spent by the previous administration on the White Elephant Museum, which we were told would not cost any Council money.

If the current administration were to raise the council tax, Central Government would reduce the Government Grant by a similar amount.

This means we have a Local council that is taking the flack for the financial incompetence of central government.
How strange! This article appeared on here earlier today, with the majority of comments being critical of, what appeared to them to be, a biased account. It must have offended the Echo's political bias to have it pointed out that whilst the previous administration's actions were dictatorial, this administration is involved in consultation which, it is hoped, would not result in the chaos that Royston Smith's dictatorship produced. It was also pointed out that the city council's finances are very much controlled by the Coalition government's reduction in grant, and not helped by the money spent by the previous administration on the White Elephant Museum, which we were told would not cost any Council money. If the current administration were to raise the council tax, Central Government would reduce the Government Grant by a similar amount. This means we have a Local council that is taking the flack for the financial incompetence of central government. Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Linesman says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:
Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days?

What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts.

How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
You have to be kidding!

The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy.

Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."?

The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts.

Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.
If that were the case, why did the UK not find itself in the same financial mess that Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Irish Republic etc etc found themselves?

It is because of the action that Gordon Brown took to make certain that people did not lose their homes and savings, by bailing out the banks and building societies that had caused the problem.

He also bailed out local councils that had invested in Icelandic banks that failed, and in so doing, protected jobs and services.

Since Cameron&Co took power, we have had a double-dip recession, and with figures announced today, could well be heading for his hat trick.

You talk about the letter saying, "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."

Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day?

Never been photographed and shown in a newspaper or on TV.

Another bit of Bovine Excrement by those who consider that they have a devine right to rule.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?[/p][/quote]You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.[/p][/quote]If that were the case, why did the UK not find itself in the same financial mess that Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Irish Republic etc etc found themselves? It is because of the action that Gordon Brown took to make certain that people did not lose their homes and savings, by bailing out the banks and building societies that had caused the problem. He also bailed out local councils that had invested in Icelandic banks that failed, and in so doing, protected jobs and services. Since Cameron&Co took power, we have had a double-dip recession, and with figures announced today, could well be heading for his hat trick. You talk about the letter saying, "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left." Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day? Never been photographed and shown in a newspaper or on TV. Another bit of Bovine Excrement by those who consider that they have a devine right to rule. Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:46pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Linesman says...

Shoong wrote:
Linesman wrote:
I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article.

For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation.

It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise.

The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face.

If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount.

Verdict.

There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.
So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there.

As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system.
I thought that it was perfectly clear what I had said.

Which part did you not understand?
[quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article. For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation. It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise. The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face. If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount. Verdict. There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.[/p][/quote]So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there. As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system.[/p][/quote]I thought that it was perfectly clear what I had said. Which part did you not understand? Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
Maine Lobster wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_


together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire.
The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement.
If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.
The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!)
The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc.
>
The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!!
To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?!
No mention of the cost to bail out local councils that had invested in Icelandic Banks.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Maine Lobster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]You totally ignore the bank bailout that cost £850billion pounds created by greedy financiers who took too many risks and left us all in the mire. The pay cuts are of miniscule impact on jobs and none in the first year covered by the money put aside to fight the unions in court. No longer needed after a sensible negotiated settlement. If you are going to just spout anti union and Labour drivel, at least have a sound argument rather than just vitreolic rubbish.[/p][/quote]The Government did not bail out the banks to the tune of £850 Billion!! If you believe that, please lay it out and show us how you got to that total. (£76 Billion was paid for Lloyds and RBS shares - we will get that back and more when the shares are sold. A lot of the Northern Rock money has been returned and so has Bradford and Bingley. The total bill is expected to be around £20 Billion or less which, when you compare that with the Labour debt of over £600 Billion when the financial crisis hit!) The last Labour government encouraged lending to fuel the consumer economy and did not impose any Financial regaulations to control it! Hence the largest Credit Card debt, the largest Banl loans debt, the largest Mortage debt etc etc. > The real reason we are in such a mess is a result of Labour's outrageous spending and borrowing during their term of office - this is what history will record!! To get to a point where we were borrowing £3 for every £4 we spent beggars belief - how can anyone continue to support Labour after that?![/p][/quote]No mention of the cost to bail out local councils that had invested in Icelandic Banks. Linesman
  • Score: 0

5:57pm Wed 14 Nov 12

kingnotail says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
Alistair Darling condemed Brown's 'appalling behaviour and flawed judgment'

"Mr Darling wrote that in the summer of 2008, when the Treasury was warning that Britain faced the worst recession since the Second World War, Mr Brown simply refused to believe it, and began crafting his own economic strategy based on the idea that the downturn would only last six months."

http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/news/article-

2033548/Gordon-Brown

-thought-economic-cr

ash-months-Alastair-

Darling-claims-bombs

hell-memoirs.html
You shoot yourself in the foot by using the Daily Mail as source material.
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: Alistair Darling condemed Brown's 'appalling behaviour and flawed judgment' "Mr Darling wrote that in the summer of 2008, when the Treasury was warning that Britain faced the worst recession since the Second World War, Mr Brown simply refused to believe it, and began crafting his own economic strategy based on the idea that the downturn would only last six months." http://www.dailymail .co.uk/news/article- 2033548/Gordon-Brown -thought-economic-cr ash-months-Alastair- Darling-claims-bombs hell-memoirs.html[/p][/quote]You shoot yourself in the foot by using the Daily Mail as source material. kingnotail
  • Score: 0

6:42pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Lone Ranger. says...

Sotonians_lets_pull_
together
wrote:
If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected.

I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves,

People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good...

People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services....

It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions.

Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good
Cant do anything but copy and paste from the old worn out record
[quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: If the unions and labour hadnt used a campaign of strikes to oust the tories and block pay cuts, then more jobs would be able to be saved, there would be less redundancy costs, and services would have been better protected. I hope the residents who voted labour realise what they have brought upon themselves, People who voted labour nationally and put Blair and Brown in place who wrecked the economy and ran up huge deficits when things were good... People who voted labour locally, who got rid of the conservative council, leading to less jobs able to be saved, and more cuts to services.... It is disgrace. We will never forgive labour and the unions. Why waste £4m on redundancies? Surely better to keep staff in post, and give everyone a small pay cut, it is much fairer, it preserves services, and keeps as many as possible in a job. But of course that is exactly what the conservatives were doing, and the unions and labour opposed. The unions and labour have let down the people of Southampton, and have let down the employees. I hope the council workers who didnt bother to vote against the strikes realise now their mistake. They must stand up for themselves, and vote down the militants, whenever they rear their heads, as they do more harm than good[/p][/quote]Cant do anything but copy and paste from the old worn out record Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

7:07pm Wed 14 Nov 12

skin2000 says...

peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years. skin2000
  • Score: 0

7:12pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Torchie1 says...

skin2000 wrote:
peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.
I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again.
[quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.[/p][/quote]I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

7:46pm Wed 14 Nov 12

skin2000 says...

Torchie1 wrote:
skin2000 wrote:
peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.
I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again.
Yes you are probably right, the people get the government they deserve.
[quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.[/p][/quote]I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again.[/p][/quote]Yes you are probably right, the people get the government they deserve. skin2000
  • Score: 0

9:55pm Wed 14 Nov 12

MGRA says...

southampton VOTED for this mess.... ENJOY !
southampton VOTED for this mess.... ENJOY ! MGRA
  • Score: 0

10:44pm Wed 14 Nov 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

MGRA wrote:
southampton VOTED for this mess.... ENJOY !
I didn't vote for a coalition Government how can I be blamed for that?
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: southampton VOTED for this mess.... ENJOY ![/p][/quote]I didn't vote for a coalition Government how can I be blamed for that? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

11:52pm Wed 14 Nov 12

Torchie1 says...

skin2000 wrote:
Torchie1 wrote:
skin2000 wrote:
peenut81 wrote:
Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton
1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire.
1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world.
no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation.
1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance.
2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit.
2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output.
2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry.
brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing.
2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action.
2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election.
revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax.
2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer.
2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia.
HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.
That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.
I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again.
Yes you are probably right, the people get the government they deserve.
No more than a minority seem to vote for the extreme ends of the political spectrum so it would seem that the likes of the socialist and National Front type politics will never be entertained by the electorate which continually turns to centre ground politics. Sadly for the left there is the spectre of Russia and the Iron Curtain states while the extreme right has the spectre of Nazi Germany to live with and no-one seems to think they deserve more of that.
[quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Torchie1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: Just to help clear matters up. simplified. if you want full version read treasure islands by n shaxxton 1950s. British bankers start a new type of banking called eurobonds. Tories approve as it helps stop rot caused by collapse of empire. 1986. Tories allow big bang. makes banks not politicians in charge of the world. no one outside banking understands implication of allowing the new levels of leverage or debt based money creation. 1997. blair, a conservative in everything except political subscription agrees with markets to let them do what they want as long as they keep revenues flowing to fund spending plans. BoE independance signals that labour accept the arguments of tories and liberals that markets know best. Labour party disowned by actual socialists, compliant media fail to record importance. 2001. banks and law firms with Tory links pressure jersey into stopping accountancy firms being accountable for not identifying fraud. London forced to follow suit. 2007. offshore banking has more money than rest of worlds output. 2008. all the gambling and lying catches up on financial industry. brown realises entire money supply system has been stolen by offshore entities and Britain is left with lots of paper worth nothing. 2009. Tory led media campaign to blame labour swings into action. 2010. despite big business, murdoch media and banking throwing everything torys fail to win election. revenge come in form of austerity. 2011 alternatives are proposed by Occupy. Tax the .01% richest who gained £100million during crisis, close offshore, make coirporations pay tax. 2012. torys continue to blame the poor, the elderly and the young for the crisis whilst the richest non docilimiled brits continue to get richer. 2012. Idiots like George 4 and sotonians pull together, repeat tory lies and fail to recognise their ideology of free markets is as flawed as state planning was for Soviet russia. HAVE A NICE DAY ALL, and please read books not blogs written by swivel eyed right wing loons.[/p][/quote]That's it in a nutshell, we have been badly governed for the last thirty years.[/p][/quote]I think you should blame the voters for electing them time and time again.[/p][/quote]Yes you are probably right, the people get the government they deserve.[/p][/quote]No more than a minority seem to vote for the extreme ends of the political spectrum so it would seem that the likes of the socialist and National Front type politics will never be entertained by the electorate which continually turns to centre ground politics. Sadly for the left there is the spectre of Russia and the Iron Curtain states while the extreme right has the spectre of Nazi Germany to live with and no-one seems to think they deserve more of that. Torchie1
  • Score: 0

3:26am Thu 15 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

Linesman wrote:
Sotonians_lets_pull_

together
wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:
Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days?

What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts.

How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?
You have to be kidding!

The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy.

Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."?

The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts.

Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.
If that were the case, why did the UK not find itself in the same financial mess that Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Irish Republic etc etc found themselves?

It is because of the action that Gordon Brown took to make certain that people did not lose their homes and savings, by bailing out the banks and building societies that had caused the problem.

He also bailed out local councils that had invested in Icelandic banks that failed, and in so doing, protected jobs and services.

Since Cameron&Co took power, we have had a double-dip recession, and with figures announced today, could well be heading for his hat trick.

You talk about the letter saying, "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."

Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day?

Never been photographed and shown in a newspaper or on TV.

Another bit of Bovine Excrement by those who consider that they have a devine right to rule.
"You talk about the letter saying, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left. Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day?"

No secret about this note, see Liam Byrne's own comments about it. Sorry, but your comment just shows how desperate you are to deny reality, as with so many on the left.

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk_politics/8
688470.stm

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/politics
/7732661/Labours-war
ning-to-new-Governme
nt-theres-no-money-l
eft.html

and here, see a FOI request, which shows the full text of the letter from Liam Byrne:

http://www.whatdothe
yknow.com/request/th
eres_no_money_left_l
etter
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Sotonians_lets_pull_ together[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ford Prefect[/bold] wrote: Oh good grief. Matt Smith and Ian Murray are loving this aren't they? Chaos, anarchy, bodies unburied, braziers in the snow. Anything else to be added in the next few days? What about some honesty? How about reflecting the fact that all these cuts are because of the massive budget cut imposed by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition. Whoever was in power in Southampton would have to impose them in the same way as all the other councils in England. This is Eric Pickles's and George Osborne's version of local democracy. You get to tinker about with which cuts to make but you you have to make the cuts. How about the Echo campaigning against what is effectively direct rule from Westminster instead of attacking the local politicians forced to a do a job which none of them relish or got elected to do?[/p][/quote]You have to be kidding! The government and councils are having to make cuts now because the previous labour government as usual was spending, spending spending, and wrecked the economy. Remember former Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne, who left a note for his successor, David Laws, saying: 'I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left."? The conservative council were trying to preserve services and jobs as best they could by sharing the pain through a small pay cut, but no, labour and the unions would much rather see public money wasted by restoring pay and seeing big redundancy payouts. Feather bedding the public sector workers at the expense of the taxpaying mugs yet again.[/p][/quote]If that were the case, why did the UK not find itself in the same financial mess that Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Irish Republic etc etc found themselves? It is because of the action that Gordon Brown took to make certain that people did not lose their homes and savings, by bailing out the banks and building societies that had caused the problem. He also bailed out local councils that had invested in Icelandic banks that failed, and in so doing, protected jobs and services. Since Cameron&Co took power, we have had a double-dip recession, and with figures announced today, could well be heading for his hat trick. You talk about the letter saying, "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left." Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day? Never been photographed and shown in a newspaper or on TV. Another bit of Bovine Excrement by those who consider that they have a devine right to rule.[/p][/quote]"You talk about the letter saying, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left. Do you not think it strange that this letter has never seen the light of day?" No secret about this note, see Liam Byrne's own comments about it. Sorry, but your comment just shows how desperate you are to deny reality, as with so many on the left. http://news.bbc.co.u k/1/hi/uk_politics/8 688470.stm http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/politics /7732661/Labours-war ning-to-new-Governme nt-theres-no-money-l eft.html and here, see a FOI request, which shows the full text of the letter from Liam Byrne: http://www.whatdothe yknow.com/request/th eres_no_money_left_l etter Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

3:48am Thu 15 Nov 12

Sotonians_lets_pull_together says...

peenut81 wrote:
^^^ yeah sorry shoong, just get wound up when the same faces on here repeat the same message, that is how false history becomes fact, repetition without challenge.
And the sites these guys have linked are written by people with a right wing, market led agenda.
Whenever people repeat the mantra of labour always bankrupts britain i say you must understand why..... Tories hate the masses, in the City their mates, the bankers, accountants, lawyers through 'the invisible hand of the market ' withdraw money from this country as they fear a socialist govt. will rightly confiscate it as ill gotten.
There is a concept called the reserve labour force and it is very important to understanding why we are where we are today, with globalisation capitalists do not need 55 million working class people in the UK. Pensioners (now their funds have been robbed)are of even less use to the trading desks of London, NY and Shanghai and that is why they are being hit.
Another point to make, when ever regulation was threatened (rarely) those on the right always argue 'job losses and lack of competititveness, capitalism is always a race to the bottom for society and a race to cartels and monopoly. Its broken and we need to work something else out, and soon cos 2billion asians just joined us in the competition and the numbers favour them
It's not as simple as that.

Just because I and others are incredibly despressed at what a mess the Unions and Labour are making of Southampton, does not mean that we are in favour of seeing Southampton ravaged by a free market economy.

I dont think anyone with any common sense would want this.

People who love Southampton and want to see it thrive should buy from local businesses here possible, keep money circulating in the local economy, and support local issues. Eg, supporting the cruise industry in its dispute with Liverpool is just one example where local people, including conservatives, stick up for Southampton, and not simply wish to leave everything to the market.

People should Buy British, and even better, buy local.

And it should also be remembered that Marx was admiring of capitalism. This has been discussed in many places, eg see here: http://www.theatlant
ic.com/business/arch
ive/2011/04/did-karl
-marx-secretly-love-
capitalism/237283/

"This is not to suggest for a moment that Marx considered capitalism as simply a Bad Thing, like admiring Sarah Palin or blowing tobacco smoke in your children's faces. On the contrary, he was extravagant in his praise for the class that created it, a fact that both his critics and his disciples have conveniently suppressed. No other social system in history, he wrote, had proved so revolutionary. In a mere handful of centuries, the capitalist middle classes had erased almost every trace of their feudal foes from the face of the earth. They had piled up cultural and material treasures, invented human rights, emancipated slaves, toppled autocrats, dismantled empires, fought and died for human freedom, and laid the basis for a truly global civilization. No document lavishes such florid compliments on this mighty historical achievement as The Communist Manifesto, not even The Wall Street Journal."

You are wrong if you think that many conservatives are not equally worried about the impact of globalisation on job prospects in this country, seeing our companies and national assets being bought up by overseas interests. I am quite protectionist in my views, and feel that the West has been too slow in bringing in protectionist measures.

Why has the West seen fit to offshore much of our production to China, offshoring our jobs and know how with it. This short term thinking has done the populations of western economies a great disservice in my view.

The government should have been tougher with Ford, and ensured the new transit was constructed here.
[quote][p][bold]peenut81[/bold] wrote: ^^^ yeah sorry shoong, just get wound up when the same faces on here repeat the same message, that is how false history becomes fact, repetition without challenge. And the sites these guys have linked are written by people with a right wing, market led agenda. Whenever people repeat the mantra of labour always bankrupts britain i say you must understand why..... Tories hate the masses, in the City their mates, the bankers, accountants, lawyers through 'the invisible hand of the market ' withdraw money from this country as they fear a socialist govt. will rightly confiscate it as ill gotten. There is a concept called the reserve labour force and it is very important to understanding why we are where we are today, with globalisation capitalists do not need 55 million working class people in the UK. Pensioners (now their funds have been robbed)are of even less use to the trading desks of London, NY and Shanghai and that is why they are being hit. Another point to make, when ever regulation was threatened (rarely) those on the right always argue 'job losses and lack of competititveness, capitalism is always a race to the bottom for society and a race to cartels and monopoly. Its broken and we need to work something else out, and soon cos 2billion asians just joined us in the competition and the numbers favour them[/p][/quote]It's not as simple as that. Just because I and others are incredibly despressed at what a mess the Unions and Labour are making of Southampton, does not mean that we are in favour of seeing Southampton ravaged by a free market economy. I dont think anyone with any common sense would want this. People who love Southampton and want to see it thrive should buy from local businesses here possible, keep money circulating in the local economy, and support local issues. Eg, supporting the cruise industry in its dispute with Liverpool is just one example where local people, including conservatives, stick up for Southampton, and not simply wish to leave everything to the market. People should Buy British, and even better, buy local. And it should also be remembered that Marx was admiring of capitalism. This has been discussed in many places, eg see here: http://www.theatlant ic.com/business/arch ive/2011/04/did-karl -marx-secretly-love- capitalism/237283/ "This is not to suggest for a moment that Marx considered capitalism as simply a Bad Thing, like admiring Sarah Palin or blowing tobacco smoke in your children's faces. On the contrary, he was extravagant in his praise for the class that created it, a fact that both his critics and his disciples have conveniently suppressed. No other social system in history, he wrote, had proved so revolutionary. In a mere handful of centuries, the capitalist middle classes had erased almost every trace of their feudal foes from the face of the earth. They had piled up cultural and material treasures, invented human rights, emancipated slaves, toppled autocrats, dismantled empires, fought and died for human freedom, and laid the basis for a truly global civilization. No document lavishes such florid compliments on this mighty historical achievement as The Communist Manifesto, not even The Wall Street Journal." You are wrong if you think that many conservatives are not equally worried about the impact of globalisation on job prospects in this country, seeing our companies and national assets being bought up by overseas interests. I am quite protectionist in my views, and feel that the West has been too slow in bringing in protectionist measures. Why has the West seen fit to offshore much of our production to China, offshoring our jobs and know how with it. This short term thinking has done the populations of western economies a great disservice in my view. The government should have been tougher with Ford, and ensured the new transit was constructed here. Sotonians_lets_pull_together
  • Score: 0

7:03am Thu 15 Nov 12

Cyber__Fug says...

southy wrote:
Up to 327 jobs will be axed, services will be slashed and residents hit with new charges to save nearly £20m in the deepest budget cuts ever proposed.

Well thats only better by about 75 jobs that the Torys intended to get rid off.
Southy, please will you revisit the "HORRENDOUS - fall out from worst cuts EVER" story and and answer my request that was posted 6.34am yesterday morning !

Or are you unable to supply the relevant information because it doesn't exist ?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Up to 327 jobs will be axed, services will be slashed and residents hit with new charges to save nearly £20m in the deepest budget cuts ever proposed. Well thats only better by about 75 jobs that the Torys intended to get rid off.[/p][/quote]Southy, please will you revisit the "HORRENDOUS - fall out from worst cuts EVER" story and and answer my request that was posted 6.34am yesterday morning ! Or are you unable to supply the relevant information because it doesn't exist ? Cyber__Fug
  • Score: 0

9:49am Thu 15 Nov 12

Shoong says...

Linesman wrote:
Shoong wrote:
Linesman wrote:
I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article.

For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation.

It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise.

The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face.

If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount.

Verdict.

There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.
So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there.

As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system.
I thought that it was perfectly clear what I had said.

Which part did you not understand?
All of it.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Shoong[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: I think that The Echo is showing its political bias in this article. For a start, the current administration is negotiating with the unions, something that the previous administration did not do, prefering to take action without consultation. It is not the current administration that has spent funds on a 'White Elephant' museum, while at the time putting people out of work as a cost-cutting exercise. The cuts that the current administration has to make is caused, in no small part, to the cut in government funding that all councils have had to face. If the current administration were to raise council tax so that it could fund some of the services that will be cut, central government will cut the funding by a similar amount. Verdict. There is a Local Council that has to take the blame, for the puppet masters at Westminster who hold the purse strings.[/p][/quote]So what you are saying is that the current Council are essentially useless and may as well not be there. As for the ongoing Sea Museum fixation, may I suggest building a replica out of matchsticks and then burning it, might clear out some of the bitterness out of the system.[/p][/quote]I thought that it was perfectly clear what I had said. Which part did you not understand?[/p][/quote]All of it. Shoong
  • Score: 0

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