Labour party whips investigate Oaklands rebels (From Daily Echo)

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

bigfella777 wrote:
Keith Morrell looks like the equaliser.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola
nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

Inform Al wrote:
This story is down to a Tory newspaper inventing problems that probably do not exist. Whatever party my ward councillors belonged to I would be disappointed if they failed to best represent my local interests as well as Southampton's as a whole. I suspect that will also be the view taken by Richard Williams. I was not impressed at the meeting by the Conservative Cllr Vassilou's comment that it was not right to remove the pool when the Tories were going to do just the same and in fact removed ALL community structures from the Flower Roads in the not short enough time they were in power.

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola
nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

bigfella777 wrote:
Keith Morrell looks like the equaliser.

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

Torchie1 wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Being detached from reality allows you to write cheques that will never be cashed. The constant drip of the 'no cuts' message might have some credibility if there was an explanation about where the money will come from. If it was as easy as Southy seems to think, his worst nightmare could be realised if the ruling party decide that they will never make any cuts and stay in power because of this popular decision. All it needs is for Southy to hint where the money will come from to pay for it all.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Being detached from reality allows you to write cheques that will never be cashed. The constant drip of the 'no cuts' message might have some credibility if there was an explanation about where the money will come from. If it was as easy as Southy seems to think, his worst nightmare could be realised if the ruling party decide that they will never make any cuts and stay in power because of this popular decision. All it needs is for Southy to hint where the money will come from to pay for it all.

Because you make no cuts means less people will lose there jobs, the effect will be the returns from council Tax will be higher, and less Housing benefit will be needed to be paid out, and with that come more money being spent in the local economy.
Its the opposite to what happens when you make cuts only realising that you need to make more cuts resulting in more job losses, less Council Tax coming in, and having to pay out more on housing benefits, and because of cuts means less people spending in the local economy which results in less good required so those company that produce the goods and store it will need to cut back and resulting in more cuts and even less money in the economy, and a national debt that will keep growing. Cuts will Bankrupt a country.

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Being detached from reality allows you to write cheques that will never be cashed. The constant drip of the 'no cuts' message might have some credibility if there was an explanation about where the money will come from. If it was as easy as Southy seems to think, his worst nightmare could be realised if the ruling party decide that they will never make any cuts and stay in power because of this popular decision. All it needs is for Southy to hint where the money will come from to pay for it all.

Because you make no cuts means less people will lose there jobs, the effect will be the returns from council Tax will be higher, and less Housing benefit will be needed to be paid out, and with that come more money being spent in the local economy.
Its the opposite to what happens when you make cuts only realising that you need to make more cuts resulting in more job losses, less Council Tax coming in, and having to pay out more on housing benefits, and because of cuts means less people spending in the local economy which results in less good required so those company that produce the goods and store it will need to cut back and resulting in more cuts and even less money in the economy, and a national debt that will keep growing. Cuts will Bankrupt a country.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

Torchie1 wrote:

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Being detached from reality allows you to write cheques that will never be cashed. The constant drip of the 'no cuts' message might have some credibility if there was an explanation about where the money will come from. If it was as easy as Southy seems to think, his worst nightmare could be realised if the ruling party decide that they will never make any cuts and stay in power because of this popular decision. All it needs is for Southy to hint where the money will come from to pay for it all.

Because you make no cuts means less people will lose there jobs, the effect will be the returns from council Tax will be higher, and less Housing benefit will be needed to be paid out, and with that come more money being spent in the local economy.
Its the opposite to what happens when you make cuts only realising that you need to make more cuts resulting in more job losses, less Council Tax coming in, and having to pay out more on housing benefits, and because of cuts means less people spending in the local economy which results in less good required so those company that produce the goods and store it will need to cut back and resulting in more cuts and even less money in the economy, and a national debt that will keep growing. Cuts will Bankrupt a country.

I didn't realise it was so simple. All someone has to do is press the button marked 'create jobs' select the required number from the drop down menu and everyone's happy. The leaders of the free world meet on regular basis and haven't spotted that one. Do you know what being detached from reality actually means?

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola
nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi Southy,
Please note how some of those who used to post pro Tories comments against even NuLabour are now trying to justify metaphorical lyinching of Don & Keith by the same NuLabour.

What does that tell you?

How far to the right NuLabour has moved under Dear Leader.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi Southy,
Please note how some of those who used to post pro Tories comments against even NuLabour are now trying to justify metaphorical lyinching of Don & Keith by the same NuLabour.

What does that tell you?

How far to the right NuLabour has moved under Dear Leader.

It tells me they are scared that if Don and Keith are booted out of the Labour Party and joins the TUSC it will mean the Media like the local TV, Radio and the News Paper will start giving the same sort of news cover that the big 3 have to the TUSC and that worries them, because people will start see that is an alturnative to cuts in jobs and services and people will start to rethink what is going on and start to realise how far Right Wing Economics and Political Policy have moved and the biggest effender is the Labour Party.
The Capitalist have control off most Political Partys in the UK have done now for a good 26 years, and been moving us more and more to the right, which might be ok for the few Elitist the Minority but its no good for the Majority the Working Class, the masses, its Left wing Economics and Political Policy that best for them, Socialism was designed for the Majority thats why it starts with the word Social.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi Southy,
Please note how some of those who used to post pro Tories comments against even NuLabour are now trying to justify metaphorical lyinching of Don & Keith by the same NuLabour.

What does that tell you?

How far to the right NuLabour has moved under Dear Leader.

It tells me they are scared that if Don and Keith are booted out of the Labour Party and joins the TUSC it will mean the Media like the local TV, Radio and the News Paper will start giving the same sort of news cover that the big 3 have to the TUSC and that worries them, because people will start see that is an alturnative to cuts in jobs and services and people will start to rethink what is going on and start to realise how far Right Wing Economics and Political Policy have moved and the biggest effender is the Labour Party.
The Capitalist have control off most Political Partys in the UK have done now for a good 26 years, and been moving us more and more to the right, which might be ok for the few Elitist the Minority but its no good for the Majority the Working Class, the masses, its Left wing Economics and Political Policy that best for them, Socialism was designed for the Majority thats why it starts with the word Social.

Southy they might join your friend Inform Al & join UKIP?

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola

nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

On the inside wrote:
Parmi, Don't insult Brian Roosts memory by only telling half the story. Brian did indeed break the whip in his last full council meeting having already decided to come off the council at the forthcoming election.

At the following group meeting many Labour members were unhappy about removing the whip for a his final couple of weeks from a good socialist who had served the party well. Others urged removing the whip on the basis that a political group must decide a group position through debate and then, win or lose, all members act together in the chamber. Anything else is an unsustainable chaos. Only two Labour Group members of about 30 spoke in favour of removing the whip from Brian AND HE WAS ONE OF THEM! He was a good socialist, he knew the difference between right and wrong.

If these two (one a good socialist) cannot accept the Labour whip they must to the right think and leave. Just as you did.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola


nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola


nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola


nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola



nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

More the Picture is why people like to portray Trotsy in a bad light for, He him self was only a mild Socialist and was not as far left as people try to make out.
This all stems down to the fact while Trotsky was not in Russia but else where it was his letters that he wrote to Lenin and had them publish in the New York papers, warning Lenin what the true nature of Capitalism will do a true socialist Party that they will Corrupt and take it over, he was also warning about Stalin the new leader of the Capitalist Provincialist in the Government of Lenins, and it proved to be right that is what happened Capitalism did take over the Russian government on the death of Lenin, and history have proven that again with the Labour Party, Capitalist have total control of it and is not just as Corrupt as the Torys, and its not just in the UK where this as happened all the major Left wing Partys in the world apart from a few have been taken over by the Capitalist, One of the few world Governments where Capitalism do not have total control is Venezuela. Now look what happened here with Chaves the USA backs a military coup takes over the country and the people revolt and puts back Chaves, and Chaves is another person that they call a Trotsky.
The Right wing will all ways try to paint Trotsky in a bad light because he was a true people man who done things for the Majority and never for the few.

Torchie1 wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola



nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

An interesting link made to 'ordinary socialist' and 'Stalinist' groups. Presumably 'Stalinists,' follow the beliefs of Stalin which your well know associate has dismissed as a fascist yet you group him with Trotskyists which you both see as on the a left wing. Where does Stalin lie within the political spectrum? This is the person that the whole world understands was a communist mass murderer but Southy is trying to distance his chosen group from by claiming that the whole world has been misinformed.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola




nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

More the Picture is why people like to portray Trotsy in a bad light for, He him self was only a mild Socialist and was not as far left as people try to make out.
This all stems down to the fact while Trotsky was not in Russia but else where it was his letters that he wrote to Lenin and had them publish in the New York papers, warning Lenin what the true nature of Capitalism will do a true socialist Party that they will Corrupt and take it over, he was also warning about Stalin the new leader of the Capitalist Provincialist in the Government of Lenins, and it proved to be right that is what happened Capitalism did take over the Russian government on the death of Lenin, and history have proven that again with the Labour Party, Capitalist have total control of it and is not just as Corrupt as the Torys, and its not just in the UK where this as happened all the major Left wing Partys in the world apart from a few have been taken over by the Capitalist, One of the few world Governments where Capitalism do not have total control is Venezuela. Now look what happened here with Chaves the USA backs a military coup takes over the country and the people revolt and puts back Chaves, and Chaves is another person that they call a Trotsky.
The Right wing will all ways try to paint Trotsky in a bad light because he was a true people man who done things for the Majority and never for the few.

I remember once watching a TV programme, some American senator who knew Trotsky said he was actually a "Liberal"

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

Torchie1 wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

I remember using Haynes manuals to work on cars in the past and to change a clutch for example it would start with a one liner like 'see section one to remove engine'. Sounds quite simple for someone who knows nothing about cars and this is where Southy goes wrong because he hasn't read 'section one' but just took a leap to the bit that he's interested in without grasping the complexity of the whole task. Repeating 'no cuts' is fine but lets have your explanation about 'section one' and how its all going to be paid for because the money has to come from somewhere or someone? Presumably you do have a 'section one' that you can share with the potential voters that you are trying to woo?

southy wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola




nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

An interesting link made to 'ordinary socialist' and 'Stalinist' groups. Presumably 'Stalinists,' follow the beliefs of Stalin which your well know associate has dismissed as a fascist yet you group him with Trotskyists which you both see as on the a left wing. Where does Stalin lie within the political spectrum? This is the person that the whole world understands was a communist mass murderer but Southy is trying to distance his chosen group from by claiming that the whole world has been misinformed.

Stalinist are Right Wing Provincialist Capitalist, If you know your History there was 3 revolutions in Russia, Stalin was part of the Second one, Lenin Was part of the thrid one, Lenin let the Provincialist stay in govenment and have a say, While Socialist will let Capitalist hang around and have a say in matters, Capitalist will not let true Socialist have a say in matters.
Stalin murdered those on the left or had them arrested then murdered, and it was proved again by the actions of Kinnoch in the Labour Party.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:
.. cue southy, to share his daydreams that these two old-Labour socialists will be daft enough to join the cloud-cuckooland Trotskyists in TUSC.

That will only happen if the Labour comittee removes there membership from the Labour Party like what happened up in Westminster Council where a Labour Councillor voted no to cuts, He ended up joining the independant Labour and backing the TUSC calls no to all cuts they are not needed.
Free how can the TUSC be Trotskyists, Trotsky him self was a Center to Left, while Linen was Left to Center. Have this Country moved that far to the Right that you can no longer tell where the Center Ground is, or are you one off these Milibands lot who thinks they done the impossable and redifined the center ground and moved it even more to the right, its some thing that can not be done, left is left and right is right.
and if you think that bit of mild name calling "cloud-cuckoola





nd Trotskyists" is going to make any different it not its just a cheap bit of right wing propaganda.

‘how can the TUSC be Trotskyists’ you ask.

I know you learnt nothing at school and very little since, but after decades in the entryist Trotskyist movement surely by now you actually know what movement you belong to.

TUSC is just a front for the like of you, Nick Chaffey, Dave Nellist et al – i.e. you are all members of the Socialist Party (England and Wales), itself fully paid up member of CWI (Committee for a Workers' International), a self-proclaimed international association of Trotskyist parties.

Entryism is what you do, and TUSC is just the latest vehicle you are infecting. Need I remind you of Militant?

Freefinker, you have a point. But I beg you to ask yourself why TUSC is mainly dominated by Socialist Party members?

Why some of us on the left have failed to unite and campaign for the interests of ordinary people under one umberala whatever it may be called?

Unless all of us on the left unite and promote the cause of ordinary masses history will be very harsh upon us all.

As an ordinary socialist I have never belonged to either Stalinist or Trotskyiet groups, in fact have been back stabbed by members of both plenty of times, but haven't right wing scums have done the same?

Point I am making is that we should by confident enough to overlook our minor problems with each other and start concentrating on the bigger picture together. Otherwise we are doomed.

More the Picture is why people like to portray Trotsy in a bad light for, He him self was only a mild Socialist and was not as far left as people try to make out.
This all stems down to the fact while Trotsky was not in Russia but else where it was his letters that he wrote to Lenin and had them publish in the New York papers, warning Lenin what the true nature of Capitalism will do a true socialist Party that they will Corrupt and take it over, he was also warning about Stalin the new leader of the Capitalist Provincialist in the Government of Lenins, and it proved to be right that is what happened Capitalism did take over the Russian government on the death of Lenin, and history have proven that again with the Labour Party, Capitalist have total control of it and is not just as Corrupt as the Torys, and its not just in the UK where this as happened all the major Left wing Partys in the world apart from a few have been taken over by the Capitalist, One of the few world Governments where Capitalism do not have total control is Venezuela. Now look what happened here with Chaves the USA backs a military coup takes over the country and the people revolt and puts back Chaves, and Chaves is another person that they call a Trotsky.
The Right wing will all ways try to paint Trotsky in a bad light because he was a true people man who done things for the Majority and never for the few.

I remember once watching a TV programme, some American senator who knew Trotsky said he was actually a "Liberal"

You find that on Youtube Parami, he was not the only one to say that.

Woolston woman Jane wrote:
Sorry to go off-topic but the standard of written language on these posts is (with notable exceptions; you know who you are) really quite reprehensible. This is a shame because it would be highly entertaining if I didn't have to slog through boorish misspellings. Could do better. See me after school 5/10

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Stephen J wrote:
Are councillors returned as delegates of the political party under whose manifesto they fought they election? Or are they elected to be representatives of the communities that elected them?

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Woolston woman Jane wrote:
Sorry to go off-topic but the standard of written language on these posts is (with notable exceptions; you know who you are) really quite reprehensible. This is a shame because it would be highly entertaining if I didn't have to slog through boorish misspellings. Could do better. See me after school 5/10

The Spelling and Grammar Police have given up with Southy, despite their free help and advice, he has never once listened to them on the various errors in his posts.

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Woolston woman Jane wrote:
Sorry to go off-topic but the standard of written language on these posts is (with notable exceptions; you know who you are) really quite reprehensible. This is a shame because it would be highly entertaining if I didn't have to slog through boorish misspellings. Could do better. See me after school 5/10

The Spelling and Grammar Police have given up with Southy, despite their free help and advice, he has never once listened to them on the various errors in his posts.

But I seem to hit the right notes because what they are trying to do and its not working.
and our friend woolston woman jane just want to cloud any issues just like the gramma police want to, they just want to block any message that not in there interest.
Like yesterday we had one pretending to be part of the echo.

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

loosehead wrote:

Stephen J wrote:
Are councillors returned as delegates of the political party under whose manifesto they fought they election? Or are they elected to be representatives of the communities that elected them?

They stand as the chosen candidate for their party.
They promise to support & fight for their ward/electorate.
Whilst at the same time trying to implement their parties manifesto.
If the electorate don't read that manifesto more fool them.
but no where in Labour's manifesto did they say they would create two cabinet jobs worth an extra £22,000 for each Labour councillor elected to those posts.
No where did it say they would close the swimming pool & lose 33 people their jobs.
it also never said after announcing the closure of this Lordshill facility that they would hold a preferendum on the Bio Mass which we would pay for?
Why don't they hold a preferendum on the pool closure?

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old.

Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

Stephen J wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

The factory shopwork manual from British Leyland, no doubt. Then what a marvellous motor car you'd have!

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years.
.
Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

southy wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years.
.
Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

No lone I not Hi-Jack it at all you can blame Shoong for that and his friends on the far right wing. They don't have a case so they make attacks.

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

southy wrote:

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Hi Southy,
Please note how some of those who used to post pro Tories comments against even NuLabour are now trying to justify metaphorical lyinching of Don & Keith by the same NuLabour.

What does that tell you?

How far to the right NuLabour has moved under Dear Leader.

It tells me they are scared that if Don and Keith are booted out of the Labour Party and joins the TUSC it will mean the Media like the local TV, Radio and the News Paper will start giving the same sort of news cover that the big 3 have to the TUSC and that worries them, because people will start see that is an alturnative to cuts in jobs and services and people will start to rethink what is going on and start to realise how far Right Wing Economics and Political Policy have moved and the biggest effender is the Labour Party.
The Capitalist have control off most Political Partys in the UK have done now for a good 26 years, and been moving us more and more to the right, which might be ok for the few Elitist the Minority but its no good for the Majority the Working Class, the masses, its Left wing Economics and Political Policy that best for them, Socialism was designed for the Majority thats why it starts with the word Social.

Southy they might join your friend Inform Al & join UKIP?

Very unlikely UKIP is a Far Right Wing Party, there be more chance them joining the Liberals than UKIP

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years.
.
Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

No lone I not Hi-Jack it at all you can blame Shoong for that and his friends on the far right wing. They don't have a case so they make attacks.

But you call me right wing & I just want to stick up for my area.
They could fix this pool then ask a private contractor to take over it & run it at a profit but they haven't why not?

Lone Ranger. wrote:

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years.
.
Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

No lone I not Hi-Jack it at all you can blame Shoong for that and his friends on the far right wing. They don't have a case so they make attacks.

But you call me right wing & I just want to stick up for my area.
They could fix this pool then ask a private contractor to take over it & run it at a profit but they haven't why not?

Ask Jeremy why they didnt do it.
.
Ask him why Sport Nation wouldnt take it on.
.
It needed tonnes of money spent on it and still does.
.
The Tories would have closed it . ......... Its not viable to keep open.
.
You will be the first whinger on here if council tax goes up to help pay for it

Torchie1 wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote:
Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any.
.
Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day.
Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake".

Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales.
You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising.
It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt.
Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question.

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services.
what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again.
1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more.
2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful.
The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down.
You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class.
its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

I remember using Haynes manuals to work on cars in the past and to change a clutch for example it would start with a one liner like 'see section one to remove engine'. Sounds quite simple for someone who knows nothing about cars and this is where Southy goes wrong because he hasn't read 'section one' but just took a leap to the bit that he's interested in without grasping the complexity of the whole task. Repeating 'no cuts' is fine but lets have your explanation about 'section one' and how its all going to be paid for because the money has to come from somewhere or someone? Presumably you do have a 'section one' that you can share with the potential voters that you are trying to woo?

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last.
.
At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years.
.
Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

No lone I not Hi-Jack it at all you can blame Shoong for that and his friends on the far right wing. They don't have a case so they make attacks.

But you call me right wing & I just want to stick up for my area.
They could fix this pool then ask a private contractor to take over it & run it at a profit but they haven't why not?

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

bigfella777 wrote:

Torchie1 wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

southy wrote: Well as I said before, if the Labour removes there membership from the party Keith Morrell and Don Thomas will be welcome to join the TUSC so they can carry on with there good work of saying no to any cuts and knowing they will be no come back for doing so.

You and the TUSC can say no to as many cuts that you like .......... Because you will never be in a position to make any. . Thats why parties similar to TUSC, Green Party and in the futere Lib Dems can say what ever they like because they will never be in a position where they have the budgets of the public to care about or implement.

Excellent post. It's easy to be idealistic when pragmatism has been removed from the equation.

Not that relistic, apart from the same thing was said about the Labour party that was started up by a Railway Union and the Socialist party 100 plus years ago ended up coming into power, it was also said about the Green Party that has control of Brighton council and might be one of the ones that will end up in control of main government one day. Rome was not built in a day, like you seem to think is, it takes time.

What are you babbling about? The point isn't that your party will never gain power - it probably won't, but stranger things have happened - the point is, until you actually are in a seat somewhere, you have no idea whether you would be able to resist the cuts or not. It's a bit like saying "let them eat cake". Try and keep up.

We do have seats in the country we even have seats in Scotland and Wales. You just do not under stand, Do you know any thing about the Labour Party History at all, Well the TUSC is the same, not all members fly under the TUSC banner, Some are under there own party banner that belongs to the TUSC, it was the same for the Labour Party when it first started, it did not comprise of one small group but many small groups with the same goal. like the Independant Labour is part of the TUSC, and like in Coventry the Socialist Party is part of the TUSC, parts of the north where you got Socialist Workers Party they are also part of the TUSC (its just down here in the south and South-east where the SWP are not).

What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

Because the cuts was going on when the Labour Party first got started unemployment was rising. It was Labour that changed the Economics and Political Policy in 1945 to Keynsian Policy from the same thing the Thatcher in 1979 took us back to Neo-Liberalism and Neo-Nationalism the very same policy of the 1790 to 1945, its a creator of new Elitist (the rich and powerful), higher unemployment, more poverity, more homeless which leads on to Higher Crime Rate and a Country that go's into very large Debt. Thats what the History of the Labour Party got to do with it, the same condition was perveil back then as they do now, and what was that gave birth to the Labour Party, and like then history is repeating it self the conditions have gave birth to the TUSC and its only a matter of time before all the real Left come under one banner again, and the right fear this most of all a United Left wing, The real Laft have given up on the Labour party now, and you can see that by the way the Elections Turn out overall since 1985 have been dropping.

Sod it, I'll just repeat the question. What does the history of the Labour Party have to do with whether or not certain cuts are viable?

No cut are viable where it means a Cut in wages or loss of Jobs or cuts in services. what part of that do you not under stand, your answer as been repeated over and over again. 1 it will effect people lifes and make them suffer more. 2 it damages the economy it makes a few wealthy more richer and powerful. The rule all ways should be start at the very top where less damage is done and work down. You can have a good working economy with out bosses, but economy will not work with out the working class. its the working class that do most of the spending in the economy, its the working class that produce good for sell.

I remember using Haynes manuals to work on cars in the past and to change a clutch for example it would start with a one liner like 'see section one to remove engine'. Sounds quite simple for someone who knows nothing about cars and this is where Southy goes wrong because he hasn't read 'section one' but just took a leap to the bit that he's interested in without grasping the complexity of the whole task. Repeating 'no cuts' is fine but lets have your explanation about 'section one' and how its all going to be paid for because the money has to come from somewhere or someone? Presumably you do have a 'section one' that you can share with the potential voters that you are trying to woo?

Just thought I would add to the pathetic scrolling.

IronLady2010 wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

loosehead wrote:

southy wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

Certainly not as rough as the last. . At least we will have a leader and not a dictator

Of course it should be ...... Certainly not as rough as the last 4 years. . Its so exciting on here at the moment ...... Southy has once again hijacked everything!!!

No lone I not Hi-Jack it at all you can blame Shoong for that and his friends on the far right wing. They don't have a case so they make attacks.

But you call me right wing & I just want to stick up for my area. They could fix this pool then ask a private contractor to take over it & run it at a profit but they haven't why not?

Ask Jeremy why they didnt do it. . Ask him why Sport Nation wouldnt take it on. . It needed tonnes of money spent on it and still does. . The Tories would have closed it . ......... Its not viable to keep open. . You will be the first whinger on here if council tax goes up to help pay for it

How do you know Tories would have closed it, this is an assumption? I think an increase of 50p a month would be accepted by most in order to pay for it, rather than £20 to restore pay to workers? Although I can't comment for everyone else, I'm also assuming.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years.
Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old.

Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one.
The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/s-leisure/

sportleisurecentres/

oaklands/

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

http://www.southampt

on.gov.uk/s-leisure/

sportleisurecentres/

oaklands/

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

http://www.southampt


on.gov.uk/s-leisure/


sportleisurecentres/


oaklands/

You do what Structurally Sounds mean, It could be Structurally sound and have a roof that will not stop the rain, windows smashed in, walls crumbling away, Being Structurally Sound just means that the Foundations are good, supporting beams are good and any supporting wall is good, it do not relate to the over all condition of the building.
I getting up no such web site.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

http://www.southampt



on.gov.uk/s-leisure/



sportleisurecentres/



oaklands/

You do what Structurally Sounds mean, It could be Structurally sound and have a roof that will not stop the rain, windows smashed in, walls crumbling away, Being Structurally Sound just means that the Foundations are good, supporting beams are good and any supporting wall is good, it do not relate to the over all condition of the building.
I getting up no such web site.

Southy I have just seen it. It is true. Strangely it is dated 13th. After the Council meeting.

Please check my e-mail. I have copied and pasted that from Council's site. It is exactly what Iron Lady has posted.

southy wrote:

Paramjit Bahia wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

No Iron it was closed in May, no real repairs have been done, when they went in there to estimate the cost for repairs in May, £10,000 would not be enough to cover the repairs that the Torys set aside to do and complet the repairs, £10,000 should of been spent on the pool 2 to 3 years ago, but the torys held it back to let the place run down to its present state.

Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

http://www.southampt




on.gov.uk/s-leisure/




sportleisurecentres/




oaklands/

You do what Structurally Sounds mean, It could be Structurally sound and have a roof that will not stop the rain, windows smashed in, walls crumbling away, Being Structurally Sound just means that the Foundations are good, supporting beams are good and any supporting wall is good, it do not relate to the over all condition of the building.
I getting up no such web site.

Southy I have just seen it. It is true. Strangely it is dated 13th. After the Council meeting.

Please check my e-mail. I have copied and pasted that from Council's site. It is exactly what Iron Lady has posted.

Ok Parami will do.

southy wrote:
Might of been or it might of been Labour both was in Office in May.

On the E-mail it says "up-date June 13th" which is a paste and copy of the report.

Copy and paste from site.
An e-mail sent to the Council.

Due to circumstances beyond our control we regret to advise you that Oaklands Pool is currently closed pending urgent repairs.
Update 13 June 2012
The initial exploration has shown that the pool and surround are structurally sound. We are currently waiting for the engineers to complete repairs on the issues that have surrounded our learner pool. The engineers are completing tests to ensure this kind of closure does not happen again. We are working hard to ensure that Oaklands Pool reopens as soon as possible. As soon as the engineers confirm a finish date we update this page.
We would like to thank for your support through this disruptive time, and apologise again for the inconvenience that this work has caused.

Is the same word for word, read it, then tell me what is wrong with it, i not sure if you know any thing about the contruction industary. but if you do then you will spot it.

IronLady2010 wrote:
Don't tell me a leaky roof is a major issue, have you been in Asda in the City Centre later? Their roof is like a sieve with buckets all round the store and has been like that for years!

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John.
Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism.
It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote.
Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

Inform Al wrote:
I wish we had councillors in the last administration that were prepared to look after our interests in Swaythling. The Tories took everything from the Flower Roads that we had fought for in the past, especially our community centre that is now due to provide more housing on an estate that has nothing now for the kids. I expect the ASB to go through the roof in the winter and when Portswood Nick has completely shut down. Won't worry the toffs though, none of them live in the area.

IronLady2010 wrote:

Inform Al wrote:
I wish we had councillors in the last administration that were prepared to look after our interests in Swaythling. The Tories took everything from the Flower Roads that we had fought for in the past, especially our community centre that is now due to provide more housing on an estate that has nothing now for the kids. I expect the ASB to go through the roof in the winter and when Portswood Nick has completely shut down. Won't worry the toffs though, none of them live in the area.

Oh come on, Last year people were saying how much the Flower Estate had improved and were defending the locals fighting as a one-off?

Also, closing a Police Station doesn't take away Beat Officers, they are just based elsewhere, but still have access to the community and patrol it.

Inform Al wrote:
The first time they closed Portswood nick was just after I had moved to the Flower Roads. An area car with it's blues and two's going stopped and asked me where a road just round the corner was, I wasn't impressed and the result was we started a residents association that was able to persuade the police to reopen the nick. Unfortunately it will all return to the same stupid situation in time. I don't know what bit of losing our only community centre is an improvement, but policing did improve thanks to some excellent work by PC Gail Salley and PS Justin Noons, unfortunately Gail is moving on soon and when Justin has gone we will be back where we were, but worse off.

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John.
Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism.
It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote.
Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

You have quite possibly the most blinkered view of the world, that I have ever seen. You cannot attribute ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS to either capitalism or socialism. What a ludicrous post.

IronLady2010 wrote:
Southy, you're becoming obsessed with the structure which we know is sound.

The Council clearly state that the Pool would have been re-opened after the works. Yes it would probably need a paint job, some plastering etc, but this would be covered in the general maintainance budget.

My entire point in all this is in response to Lone Ranger who suggested the Tories would close it anyway, my arguement is why would they close it after doing all the repairs to get it open again.

Now, you're trying to give me lessons in the structure of a building and I don't know why!

Any building has ongoing maintainance costs especially those open to the public as they have to safe.

Why am I being given lessons in a buildings structure?

Fair play to these Councillors for doing their job and standing up for the people they represent.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John.
Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism.
It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote.
Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

You have quite possibly the most blinkered view of the world, that I have ever seen. You cannot attribute ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS to either capitalism or socialism. What a ludicrous post.

No Georgem your the kind that will not allow people to make up there own minds and would control them in what to beleive in.
Politics was not invented in the last few 100 years, it go's back 1000's of years.
the only real big difference is in the last few 100 years that Political Spectrum as got larger and wider.
And yes when you come to Economics and Political policy yes it as to be Capitalism aka Right Wing or Socialism aka Left wing. there is no two ways about it, its as sure as your left hand and right hand.

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Southy, you're becoming obsessed with the structure which we know is sound.

The Council clearly state that the Pool would have been re-opened after the works. Yes it would probably need a paint job, some plastering etc, but this would be covered in the general maintainance budget.

My entire point in all this is in response to Lone Ranger who suggested the Tories would close it anyway, my arguement is why would they close it after doing all the repairs to get it open again.

Now, you're trying to give me lessons in the structure of a building and I don't know why!

Any building has ongoing maintainance costs especially those open to the public as they have to safe.

Why am I being given lessons in a buildings structure?

Fair play to these Councillors for doing their job and standing up for the people they represent.

No i am not i trying to explane to you the differences in the meaning.
You said your self Asda in Town there roof is leaking baddly, do this make the building structure unsound no it don't.

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John.
Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism.
It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote.
Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

You have quite possibly the most blinkered view of the world, that I have ever seen. You cannot attribute ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS to either capitalism or socialism. What a ludicrous post.

No Georgem your the kind that will not allow people to make up there own minds and would control them in what to beleive in.
Politics was not invented in the last few 100 years, it go's back 1000's of years.
the only real big difference is in the last few 100 years that Political Spectrum as got larger and wider.
And yes when you come to Economics and Political policy yes it as to be Capitalism aka Right Wing or Socialism aka Left wing. there is no two ways about it, its as sure as your left hand and right hand.

"No Georgem your the kind that will not allow people to make up there own minds and would control them in what to beleive in."

I've heard it all now and it's on the record!

This has to be the best post Southy has ever made! We now have an official 'I am always right' and a trainee 'I'm always right'.

This has made my day, now for a glass of wine to stop the laughter........

IronLady2010 wrote:
Southy the pool was scheduled to re-open according to SCC website after the small pool issues were resolved, why are you going on about the structure which was stated as being fine on the initial inspection?

I'm sure all Council buildings are checked by surveyors regularly.

IronLady2010 wrote:
Oh Southy Pi$$ of with your stupid history lessons, I don't live in the old world, I live in the new modern world, accept the change and get over your demons.

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Southy the pool was scheduled to re-open according to SCC website after the small pool issues were resolved, why are you going on about the structure which was stated as being fine on the initial inspection?

I'm sure all Council buildings are checked by surveyors regularly.

You did not me I just followed you up on it.
It was these 2 new pool leaks that they found was the 2 small pool issues that need to be resolved and push the price up over £10k, and the leaky roof over the stalls is still leaking.
where if they was done a few years ago insted of being left to get worse, the pool may not of needing any more repairs and would be open.
The Library at Lordshill had a leaking roof 18 mths ago and was repaired with in a mth. so was the pool building left to leak for so long, part of the pool building have been closed down for long while now, but it was in may that the whole pool building was closed down

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

Ironlady why talk about a 50p increase?
just cut those two extra cabinet posts that Labour have created & save £44,000.
use that money to repair it fully & then to the private contractor who's paying to run all sporting facilities simples.
If the Tory council had not put the likes of Bitterne into private control would Labour have scrapped that as well?
just remember all those facilities are still owned by the city.
They said that £2.5million would be saved to restore pay?
yet they & the Unions plus the last council said it would take at a minimum £7million to restore pay so where's the other £4.5million coming from?

Lone Ranger. wrote:

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

Ironlady why talk about a 50p increase?
just cut those two extra cabinet posts that Labour have created & save £44,000.
use that money to repair it fully & then to the private contractor who's paying to run all sporting facilities simples.
If the Tory council had not put the likes of Bitterne into private control would Labour have scrapped that as well?
just remember all those facilities are still owned by the city.
They said that £2.5million would be saved to restore pay?
yet they & the Unions plus the last council said it would take at a minimum £7million to restore pay so where's the other £4.5million coming from?

If your party had not been so incompetent we could have had £9m from uncollected Council Tax.
.

IronLady2010 wrote:

southy wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Southy the pool was scheduled to re-open according to SCC website after the small pool issues were resolved, why are you going on about the structure which was stated as being fine on the initial inspection?

I'm sure all Council buildings are checked by surveyors regularly.

You did not me I just followed you up on it.
It was these 2 new pool leaks that they found was the 2 small pool issues that need to be resolved and push the price up over £10k, and the leaky roof over the stalls is still leaking.
where if they was done a few years ago insted of being left to get worse, the pool may not of needing any more repairs and would be open.
The Library at Lordshill had a leaking roof 18 mths ago and was repaired with in a mth. so was the pool building left to leak for so long, part of the pool building have been closed down for long while now, but it was in may that the whole pool building was closed down

I posted a statement off SCC website and you went off on one about me not understanding structure.

Dear Lord, you always accuse everyone else about twisting words, I posted an official statement, it wasn't my opinion.

Barking mad is polite, SCC should invest more of the budget to Mental Health before I go insane from reading your posts.

IronLady2010 wrote:
Torchie1 I wouldn't vote TUSC if they were the only party to vote for, not when they have representatives that don't listen to people who don't share their own view.

How can someone pretend to represent people yet enforce their own opinion?

This is why Morrell and Thomas should be commended for standing up for residents of the areas they have been elected for.

They could easily have gone with the flow and let down the very people they represent as Southy would if people didn't agree with his own thoughts as is proven here.

Lone Ranger. wrote:

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

Ironlady why talk about a 50p increase?
just cut those two extra cabinet posts that Labour have created & save £44,000.
use that money to repair it fully & then to the private contractor who's paying to run all sporting facilities simples.
If the Tory council had not put the likes of Bitterne into private control would Labour have scrapped that as well?
just remember all those facilities are still owned by the city.
They said that £2.5million would be saved to restore pay?
yet they & the Unions plus the last council said it would take at a minimum £7million to restore pay so where's the other £4.5million coming from?

If your party had not been so incompetent we could have had £9m from uncollected Council Tax.
.

Torchie1 wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Torchie1 I wouldn't vote TUSC if they were the only party to vote for, not when they have representatives that don't listen to people who don't share their own view.

How can someone pretend to represent people yet enforce their own opinion?

This is why Morrell and Thomas should be commended for standing up for residents of the areas they have been elected for.

They could easily have gone with the flow and let down the very people they represent as Southy would if people didn't agree with his own thoughts as is proven here.

This is how the Stalins, Lenins and Pol-Pots of this world have always operated. Vote for me, do what you're told,watch out for my secret police and don't mention the gulags.

loosehead wrote:

Lone Ranger. wrote:

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
As I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tories had already started repairs back in May or June??? and when Labour took over they were then stopped pending a review which brings us to where we are today?

If this is correct I don't see why Tories would do the repairs, then close it. Like I say correct me if I have got muddled up.

Ironlady why talk about a 50p increase?
just cut those two extra cabinet posts that Labour have created & save £44,000.
use that money to repair it fully & then to the private contractor who's paying to run all sporting facilities simples.
If the Tory council had not put the likes of Bitterne into private control would Labour have scrapped that as well?
just remember all those facilities are still owned by the city.
They said that £2.5million would be saved to restore pay?
yet they & the Unions plus the last council said it would take at a minimum £7million to restore pay so where's the other £4.5million coming from?

If your party had not been so incompetent we could have had £9m from uncollected Council Tax.
.

So come on Lone Ranger let's talk about incompetence shall we?
Under Labour millions of unpaid council tax was wiped off instead of covering the costs of recovering it they just increase the council tax a bit more than they needed to cover June Bridles Labour council's pay rises.
this in effect saw larger numbers not paying the tax so the circle happened again & again.not enough tax due to unrecovered tax payments so charge the ones who pay more.
Labour did absolutely nothing to recover these taxes & I think you'll find the last Tory council recovered far more unpaid tax & tax avoidance than Labour ever did.
they checked & took to court people who were only paying a single persons tax but were married.
they took & recovered non payment but they would be the first to admit they still had a long way to go to get it all back.
So Lone Ranger are Labour going to get this money back no matter how unpopular with it voters this might make them?

IronLady2010 wrote:
Thank god loosehead comes along, someone else with a brain who can see through all this political nonsense. I've had enough for one day, what with Southy and his pointless posts. Over to you Loosehead, sort them out!

IronLady2010 wrote:

Inform Al wrote:
The first time they closed Portswood nick was just after I had moved to the Flower Roads. An area car with it's blues and two's going stopped and asked me where a road just round the corner was, I wasn't impressed and the result was we started a residents association that was able to persuade the police to reopen the nick. Unfortunately it will all return to the same stupid situation in time. I don't know what bit of losing our only community centre is an improvement, but policing did improve thanks to some excellent work by PC Gail Salley and PS Justin Noons, unfortunately Gail is moving on soon and when Justin has gone we will be back where we were, but worse off.

What decade was this? They have Sat Navs in vehicles these days lol x

Inform Al wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

Inform Al wrote:
The first time they closed Portswood nick was just after I had moved to the Flower Roads. An area car with it's blues and two's going stopped and asked me where a road just round the corner was, I wasn't impressed and the result was we started a residents association that was able to persuade the police to reopen the nick. Unfortunately it will all return to the same stupid situation in time. I don't know what bit of losing our only community centre is an improvement, but policing did improve thanks to some excellent work by PC Gail Salley and PS Justin Noons, unfortunately Gail is moving on soon and when Justin has gone we will be back where we were, but worse off.

What decade was this? They have Sat Navs in vehicles these days lol x

Yes, ask the ambulance service about the problems they had with sat navs recently, my own sends me onto the M3 for a 10 minute drive for what should be a 2 minute drive from Swaythling to the bird aviary down Stoneham Lane.

IronLady2010 wrote:

Inform Al wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:

Inform Al wrote: The first time they closed Portswood nick was just after I had moved to the Flower Roads. An area car with it's blues and two's going stopped and asked me where a road just round the corner was, I wasn't impressed and the result was we started a residents association that was able to persuade the police to reopen the nick. Unfortunately it will all return to the same stupid situation in time. I don't know what bit of losing our only community centre is an improvement, but policing did improve thanks to some excellent work by PC Gail Salley and PS Justin Noons, unfortunately Gail is moving on soon and when Justin has gone we will be back where we were, but worse off.

What decade was this? They have Sat Navs in vehicles these days lol x

Yes, ask the ambulance service about the problems they had with sat navs recently, my own sends me onto the M3 for a 10 minute drive for what should be a 2 minute drive from Swaythling to the bird aviary down Stoneham Lane.

I thought it was the Police? Now it's Ambulance? Come on be honest, you're making it up! Portswood is still dealt with by local Bobby's but The City response Team deals with all areas.

loosehead wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote: Thank god loosehead comes along, someone else with a brain who can see through all this political nonsense. I've had enough for one day, what with Southy and his pointless posts. Over to you Loosehead, sort them out!

Southy can't stop electioneering but people like Lone Ranger really take the biscuit. If he printed out the facts of the increasing non payment after every June Bridle tax increase & how little Labour actually got back then told the truth on the initiatives the Tory council put forward to get the taxes he might be worth listening to. If Labour need to save £47million this year? why aren't they going all out to recover this £9million of non payments? Why are they shutting a pool when if they chased these non payers & recovered the money they could tell these people it was done to restore pay to people on £30-£40,000 a year many not even living in this city But no let's not do that just shut a service? let's do what we stated the Tories would do so vote Labour & we'll protect your services but first we need to get £7million to restore pay & keep the unions happy? £2.3million will be a start unless there are 1-10 refuse jobs going then we don't need the whole £7million

IronLady2010 wrote:
Thank god loosehead comes along, someone else with a brain who can see through all this political nonsense. I've had enough for one day, what with Southy and his pointless posts. Over to you Loosehead, sort them out!

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John. Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism. It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote. Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

IronLady2010 wrote:
Thank god loosehead comes along, someone else with a brain who can see through all this political nonsense. I've had enough for one day, what with Southy and his pointless posts. Over to you Loosehead, sort them out!

For goodness sake don't encourage him.

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

Georgem wrote:

southy wrote:

OSPREYSAINT wrote:

Condor Man wrote: Less than 3 months after getting elected the Labour group are a complete shambles. They knew full well they'd win the election in May yet failed to be diligent enough to have studied the books before they came to office. Now the militants are coming out of the woodwork, it'll be a rough ride for the next 4 years.

I just wish that these elected Councillors would leave their Political dogma at the entrance and get down to debating the issues on grounds of common sense and need, dream on.

You will never get common sense from any right wing party and yes right wing is the real dogma in life, they been preaching the same thing for thousands of years. Like Torchie1 would use the cheap option of a Haynes manual to repair a car and only get have a job done and wonders why he having more trouble so soon afterwards, Where as I would use the Factory Shopwork manual to get the job done the right way the first time so it would last a lot longer.

Thousands of years, eh? The entire idea of such a political spectrum is only a few hundred years old. Still, good to see you not letting a single opportunity to tell someone how much better at everything you are than them. Well done, Comrade! Have a great weekend!

That where your wrong Georgem The political spectrum dates back the Greeks, the Economy spectrum go's back way before the rubbing stone, The first Economy was a Capitialist Economy and since then its had many different forms, but its all ways been base on Capitalism, and it the same with Political spectrum its a Capitalist one. The ideals Socialism Economics and Political system was first put down on paper for the first time 250 years ago, and was use only in one country for only 5 years, Before the capitalist realise the system was working and working better than Capitalism and had to do away with very quickly before the rest of the world see it.

Stating opinions as facts doesn't work. Hard figures, please, or GTFO.

I guess he honestly believes what he preaches, I am very dubious myself.

That is if you know your History it is fact, Our Democracy is base from the Greeks form, The Romans had a democracy, England had Democracy since the final years of King John.
Its only been in the last few hundred years that theres been real changes, and that was cause though Socialism.
It was Socialism that gave the women the Vote, It was Socialsim that gave people who did not own properity or a business or run a business the right to Vote.
Theres been a Political Spectrum for 1000's of years, but its all ways been Capitalism of one Type or Another.

You have quite possibly the most blinkered view of the world, that I have ever seen. You cannot attribute ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS to either capitalism or socialism. What a ludicrous post.

No Georgem your the kind that will not allow people to make up there own minds and would control them in what to beleive in.
Politics was not invented in the last few 100 years, it go's back 1000's of years.
the only real big difference is in the last few 100 years that Political Spectrum as got larger and wider.
And yes when you come to Economics and Political policy yes it as to be Capitalism aka Right Wing or Socialism aka Left wing. there is no two ways about it, its as sure as your left hand and right hand.