65,000 ‘workless’ homes in county (From Daily Echo)
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65,000 ‘workless’ homes in Hampshire
11:30am Monday 10th September 2012 in Politics
By Tom Moseley, Parliamentary Correspondent
65,000 ‘workless’ homes in county
MORE than 65,000 homes across Hampshire and the Isle of Wight are lived in by people who don’t work, new figures have revealed.
The startling numbers have gone up overall in the past 12 months – prompting a warning of households spiralling into poverty and children growing up without a role model for later life.
In Southampton alone, there were 5,568 children growing up in workless households in 2011, the Office for National Statistics said.
That’s a reduction on last year, when 7,000 of the city’s children were recorded as living in homes with no working adults.
Although the numbers have dropped in the city since 2010, across the entire area it has increased from 63,879 to 65,182.
One of the sharpest rises was in Test Valley where figures rose from 1,864 to 4,445. More than a quarter of Isle of Wight households were also classed as “workless”, and over 17 per cent in Southampton.
Fareham MP Mark Hoban , the new Employment Minister, said nationally the picture was “encouraging” as figures fell overall, but admitted it was still a “substantial challenge” to cut the numbers.
But Southampton Itchen Labour MP John Denham said: “It’s clearly a major issue for the families and for taxpayers.”
He called on the Government to provide a jobs guarantee for young people, pointing to a rise in the use of food banks across the country as a result of families sliding into poverty.
He added: “Children growing up in families where nobody works are themselves much more likely to do badly at school and become long-term unemployed.
It’s pretty important, if possible, for one or both parents to be going out to work so children have a role model for how life works.”
Ministers claim the high numbers of people on welfare is a legacy from the Labour government, and point to their attempts to reform benefits, including a new multi-million pound “youth contract”
aimed at encouraging companies to take on young people.
Mr Hoban said: “The national figures were encouraging with a fall in both the proportion of workless households and in the proportion of children that live in a house where no one works.
“However, in many areas worklessness remains a substantial challenge.”
Workless households are defined as those which include at least one person of working age (16-64) where no one is in work.
Nationally, five million people aged 16-64 live in workless households and 1.8 million children.
Comments(66)
southy
says...
12:04pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Shoong
says...
12:10pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:How bad is it really then?
Nice spin to make it look better than it really is.
I'm sure you'll have no problems sharing the real figures with us.
Georgem
says...
12:22pm Mon 10 Sep 12
bigfella777 wrote:I wish they'd take the time to think of some actual answers to that question. The most obvious being "Because I can get paid more for working". It makes me sad that so many people are happy to squander their life, their potential, all for the sake of scamming a few measly pounds out of the state.
Why bother working when you can get paid not to.
Taskforce 141
says...
12:36pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Whilst I respect the fact that good jobs are few and far between, lets get the work ethic into people - No benefits unless you complaint 16 hours a week unpaid/voluntary work! i dont care if we have to give everyone a broom and black bag - our streets are a disgrace so lets get people out there making a difference and earning their keep!
i am fed up of giving up my wages to support sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others!
Lone Ranger.
says...
12:42pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:What makes you think that people are squandering their life away and "scamming" a few quid from Govt.
bigfella777 wrote:I wish they'd take the time to think of some actual answers to that question. The most obvious being "Because I can get paid more for working". It makes me sad that so many people are happy to squander their life, their potential, all for the sake of scamming a few measly pounds out of the state.
Why bother working when you can get paid not to.
.
Yes of course there are a percentage that are like that but i would guess that the vast majority want to work
.
Do you think that many of them want to be in poverty or with children growing up without a role model for later life.
.
Many are the youth of today where there is a real problem in finding work.
.
There have been a couple of poor ideas from the Govt that have failed miserably.
.
But there again EVERYTHING that they put into place fails.
.
Failed ideas from a failed and lousy Tory led coalition
I have great sympathy for them if they are genuinely seeking work but unable to find it
sw8296
says...
12:57pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Given the relative affluence of the region, then we should expect to see a fair number of these?
And perhaps that explains while the IoW has such a high proportion of "workless"?
southy
says...
12:58pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Lone Ranger. wrote:Labour failed in office to, they failed to change Thatcher policy, many people found that out when Blair moved into number 10 and saying "there wil be no change in Thatcher policy"
Georgem wrote:What makes you think that people are squandering their life away and "scamming" a few quid from Govt.
bigfella777 wrote:I wish they'd take the time to think of some actual answers to that question. The most obvious being "Because I can get paid more for working". It makes me sad that so many people are happy to squander their life, their potential, all for the sake of scamming a few measly pounds out of the state.
Why bother working when you can get paid not to.
.
Yes of course there are a percentage that are like that but i would guess that the vast majority want to work
.
Do you think that many of them want to be in poverty or with children growing up without a role model for later life.
.
Many are the youth of today where there is a real problem in finding work.
.
There have been a couple of poor ideas from the Govt that have failed miserably.
.
But there again EVERYTHING that they put into place fails.
.
Failed ideas from a failed and lousy Tory led coalition
I have great sympathy for them if they are genuinely seeking work but unable to find it
bigfella777
says...
12:59pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem
says...
1:03pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Lone Ranger. wrote:I'm talking specifically about the people bigfella referred to.
Georgem wrote:What makes you think that people are squandering their life away and "scamming" a few quid from Govt.
bigfella777 wrote:I wish they'd take the time to think of some actual answers to that question. The most obvious being "Because I can get paid more for working". It makes me sad that so many people are happy to squander their life, their potential, all for the sake of scamming a few measly pounds out of the state.
Why bother working when you can get paid not to.
.
Yes of course there are a percentage that are like that but i would guess that the vast majority want to work
.
Do you think that many of them want to be in poverty or with children growing up without a role model for later life.
.
Many are the youth of today where there is a real problem in finding work.
.
There have been a couple of poor ideas from the Govt that have failed miserably.
.
But there again EVERYTHING that they put into place fails.
.
Failed ideas from a failed and lousy Tory led coalition
I have great sympathy for them if they are genuinely seeking work but unable to find it
southy
says...
1:17pm Mon 10 Sep 12
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Georgem
says...
1:32pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Des Olated
says...
1:44pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
freefinker
says...
1:48pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:.. not to mention Italy - d@mn Romans to blame.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Georgem
says...
1:53pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
minnie64
says...
1:57pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Taskforce 141 wrote:Report them I say
When will the government learn, benefits appear to be easy to claim, christ i even know of eastern Europeans over here claiming for children still back in their home land! Whilst I respect the fact that good jobs are few and far between, lets get the work ethic into people - No benefits unless you complaint 16 hours a week unpaid/voluntary work! i dont care if we have to give everyone a broom and black bag - our streets are a disgrace so lets get people out there making a difference and earning their keep! i am fed up of giving up my wages to support sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others!
Des Olated
says...
2:01pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
debzy82
says...
2:04pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Individual circumstances should be considered.
mtdiablo
says...
2:40pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem
says...
2:50pm Mon 10 Sep 12
mtdiablo wrote:Has anybody actually done that?
In addition to the above, what about those who are disabled and therefore unable to work? You can't just dismiss everyone on benefits as "sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others".
mtdiablo
says...
2:52pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem
says...
3:09pm Mon 10 Sep 12
mtdiablo wrote:Yep. Thanks. Must've got caught by my "stupid post" filter.
Taskforce 141?
ohec
says...
3:10pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem
says...
3:21pm Mon 10 Sep 12
ohec wrote:Have to say, talking about "flipping burgers" or the ever-popular "stacking shelves" type jobs like that actually lends weight to the argument that those jobs are menial and beneath a lot of people. We haven't done this generation many favours by promising that if they do well in school, they'll get a job "better than flipping burgers".
I am afraid the only option is to go back to means testing so you get the minimum possible to live on, it has to be made desirable to work its obscene when people are better off on benefits than those that are working. We also need to change our system so that you have to qualify before you get any benefit, 5 years contributions before any benefit is payable and maximum payable after 10 years contributions and that would apply to all.For people that don't qualify they can earn their benefit by doing supervised community work. We also need childcare places so that young single mums can go to work once a child is 12 months old in order to stop professional mums who think they have a right to keep churning out babies for other people to support. These ideas might seem a bit draconian but drastic measures are required otherwise we are going to have people that never do a days work in their lives and its no good keep saying there are no jobs we have to make people proud to work even if it is flipping burgers or other such jobs that a lot think are beneath them, work creates work but we have to start the ball rolling.
southy
says...
3:23pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Shoong
says...
3:31pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Yes, Benefits cheats should be let off because somehow they are 'fighting the system'.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Des Olated
says...
3:35pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:I don't think anything in the article indicates benefits abusers - as already posted there are numerous reasons people don't work. It's a statement of fact that there are 65000 homes Hants/IOW in this situation and that is a situation that needs addressing.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Randomly posting about tax avoidance (which is completely legal) is utterly pointless.
southy
says...
3:37pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Shoong wrote:Still twisting and wringling there Shoong.
southy wrote:Yes, Benefits cheats should be let off because somehow they are 'fighting the system'.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
I did not say what your trying to say and far from it.
Lets start at the very top hit those that are costing this country the most first and then work downwards.
phil maccavity
says...
3:42pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Presume these 65,000 households includes you Southy.
Nice spin to make it look better than it really is.
I am sure you said in a previous post you are retired so therefore a 'non worker' for the sake of this survey
Georgem
says...
3:45pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Georgem
says...
3:47pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Southy doesn't understand the difference between tax evasion, and tax avoidance. Watch how he posts something irrelevant about Vodafone in response, as if it proves him right. Note: he also believes the plural of 'anecdote' to be 'evidence'.
southy wrote:I don't think anything in the article indicates benefits abusers - as already posted there are numerous reasons people don't work. It's a statement of fact that there are 65000 homes Hants/IOW in this situation and that is a situation that needs addressing.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Randomly posting about tax avoidance (which is completely legal) is utterly pointless.
southy
says...
3:48pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
Des Olated
says...
3:49pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Yep, start at the top, many of whom run businesses, employ many others, bring a lot to the economy of UK plc, yep, they're the ones to go after first.
Shoong wrote:Still twisting and wringling there Shoong.
southy wrote:Yes, Benefits cheats should be let off because somehow they are 'fighting the system'.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
I did not say what your trying to say and far from it.
Lets start at the very top hit those that are costing this country the most first and then work downwards.
After that....anyone with a Range Rover
Georgem
says...
3:52pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
Georgem
says...
3:52pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Shoong
says...
3:58pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Coming from someone who has next to no understanding of the Tax system (lest we forget the council tax central government saga which you were proved incorrect by more than one person), let alone the difference between tax avoidance & tax evasion, that's a laugh.
Shoong wrote:Still twisting and wringling there Shoong.
southy wrote:Yes, Benefits cheats should be let off because somehow they are 'fighting the system'.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
I did not say what your trying to say and far from it.
Lets start at the very top hit those that are costing this country the most first and then work downwards.
Des Olated
says...
4:03pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:I wonder how many of the ordinary working class folk who gleefully flock across the channel to pick up their cheap beer, wine, fags etc would consider themselves tax avoiders and targets for Southy's socialist utopia?
Hands up anybody who would like to pay less tax than they currently do?
OK, I know tax IS paid but they do avoid UK tax
ohec
says...
4:05pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:I agree we haven't done this generation any favours anymore than the last or the one before its a situation that has been developing for years, for years we have told our children go to university graduate and walk straight into a well paid job and due to a combination of things that is no longer the case, they see footballers / pop stars etc earning crazy money for doing bugger all and their life seems very dull and hard, and to some extent parents are to blame as well for their precious little darlings are worth more than this or that sort of job (maybe they might have a different idea if their little darlings weren't getting any dole money) at the end of the day there is always somebody else to blame it is no longer fashionable to take responsibility for yourself.
ohec wrote:Have to say, talking about "flipping burgers" or the ever-popular "stacking shelves" type jobs like that actually lends weight to the argument that those jobs are menial and beneath a lot of people. We haven't done this generation many favours by promising that if they do well in school, they'll get a job "better than flipping burgers".
I am afraid the only option is to go back to means testing so you get the minimum possible to live on, it has to be made desirable to work its obscene when people are better off on benefits than those that are working. We also need to change our system so that you have to qualify before you get any benefit, 5 years contributions before any benefit is payable and maximum payable after 10 years contributions and that would apply to all.For people that don't qualify they can earn their benefit by doing supervised community work. We also need childcare places so that young single mums can go to work once a child is 12 months old in order to stop professional mums who think they have a right to keep churning out babies for other people to support. These ideas might seem a bit draconian but drastic measures are required otherwise we are going to have people that never do a days work in their lives and its no good keep saying there are no jobs we have to make people proud to work even if it is flipping burgers or other such jobs that a lot think are beneath them, work creates work but we have to start the ball rolling.
Torchie1
says...
4:16pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated wrote:Southy buys his rolling tobacco 'under the counter' but doesn't consider this as tax evasion.
Georgem wrote:I wonder how many of the ordinary working class folk who gleefully flock across the channel to pick up their cheap beer, wine, fags etc would consider themselves tax avoiders and targets for Southy's socialist utopia?
Hands up anybody who would like to pay less tax than they currently do?
OK, I know tax IS paid but they do avoid UK tax
Des Olated
says...
4:20pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Torchie1 wrote:standing with the first against the wall then.
Des Olated wrote:Southy buys his rolling tobacco 'under the counter' but doesn't consider this as tax evasion.
Georgem wrote:I wonder how many of the ordinary working class folk who gleefully flock across the channel to pick up their cheap beer, wine, fags etc would consider themselves tax avoiders and targets for Southy's socialist utopia?
Hands up anybody who would like to pay less tax than they currently do?
OK, I know tax IS paid but they do avoid UK tax
MegGriffin
says...
4:27pm Mon 10 Sep 12
-stiv-
says...
4:28pm Mon 10 Sep 12
The very fact that someone would be desperate enough to "game" the system speaks volumes as it is.
Fatty x Ford Worker
says...
4:47pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Quite Frankly
says...
4:48pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy
says...
4:48pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
southy
says...
4:52pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Quite Frankly wrote:And that go's for most of the people its just those at the top where there are fewer cheats, cheat the country out the most.
I don't mind contributing tax payments to fund benefits and the NHS. It is surely the mark of decent society that we do this - to help those less fortunate than all the baying Daily Mail readers on here. Unless I am mistaken, there is not full employment in this country. If Dave and his cronies have their way, there will be many more "workless homes".
Fatty x Ford Worker
says...
4:52pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Mate I would get a really good Accountant He or She would put you wise!
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
Georgem
says...
4:53pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Supporting figures, please, not just some random numbers.
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
It isn't as simple as reversing a decision, because many companies affected will simply retract from the country, having other effects on the economy. Do I think this gives companies carte blanche to do as they please tax-wise? No. But it's not going to be as simple as just making them pay the tax.
southy
says...
4:54pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Fatty x Ford Worker wrote:That they would on how to pay 20 % or less in Taxes, while the less well off having to pay the full amount.
southy wrote:Mate I would get a really good Accountant He or She would put you wise!
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
Fatty x Ford Worker
says...
4:57pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Des Olated
says...
5:06pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:And, even if Southy's figures stood up to scrutiny would going after tax avoiders help the 65000 homes across the region with no workers in them?
southy wrote:Supporting figures, please, not just some random numbers.
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
It isn't as simple as reversing a decision, because many companies affected will simply retract from the country, having other effects on the economy. Do I think this gives companies carte blanche to do as they please tax-wise? No. But it's not going to be as simple as just making them pay the tax.
Would it produce more jobs or opportunities? No, more likely just the opposite.
bigfella777
says...
5:06pm Mon 10 Sep 12
It's so boring no one cares,you all need sex.
freefinker
says...
5:07pm Mon 10 Sep 12
There are many, many reasons why there are ‘workless homes’ and almost none have anything to do with southy’s made-up numbers and rhetoric.
While unemployment is certainly one reason, others include temporary and permanent sickness, temporary and permanent disability, early retirement, student HMO’s, etc.
There are over 9 million ‘economically inactive’ in the UK and despite what southy believes they are NOT unemployed.
Bowmore
says...
6:03pm Mon 10 Sep 12
Taskforce 141 wrote:I completely agree that everyone capable of doing some form of work, I a believe there are very few that would not be capable of doing something, should have do something for the community in return for their benefits.
When will the government learn, benefits appear to be easy to claim, christ i even know of eastern Europeans over here claiming for children still back in their home land!
Whilst I respect the fact that good jobs are few and far between, lets get the work ethic into people - No benefits unless you complaint 16 hours a week unpaid/voluntary work! i dont care if we have to give everyone a broom and black bag - our streets are a disgrace so lets get people out there making a difference and earning their keep!
i am fed up of giving up my wages to support sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others!
Georgem
says...
6:11pm Mon 10 Sep 12
southy wrote:Not the less well off. Just people on PAYE. It's perfectly possible to not be especially well off, but still be privvy to some tax avoidance measures.
Fatty x Ford Worker wrote:That they would on how to pay 20 % or less in Taxes, while the less well off having to pay the full amount.
southy wrote:Mate I would get a really good Accountant He or She would put you wise!
Georgem wrote:It was estimated well over £1 tillion was lost in tax revenue due to Tax advoiders in the year 2009 to 2010, there is over £160 Trillion held in off-shore tax free banking just sitting there and doing nothing apart from colletting tax free interest. then you got on top of that those who pay only 20% tax or less in avoiding paying the full tax.
southy wrote:I presume you have figures to back up this claim that "tax avoiders" are costing twice as much as "tax evaders". Let's see them, then.
Georgem wrote:No I mean Tax Advioders even lo its legal they to well know what they are doing and its all for there personal greed, Evaders are costing the country half as much.
southy wrote:I didn't miss it. I chose not to bother addressing it as you used the term 'tax avoiders' rather than 'tax evaders', and I can't be bothered with yet another round of semantic gymnastics with you.
Des Olated wrote:Note Georgem miss the bit about big Tax advioders, who cheats the system far bigger than the benefit abusers, Benefit abusers there is a lot more of them but cost the country far less than Tax advioders and there is so few of them.
Georgem wrote:Yes, apparently in casas all over SPain the unemployed sit around toasting Cortez for providing their countries boundless wealth & weekly unemployment cheques.
Des Olated wrote:Direct result? I'm all ears.
Georgem wrote:Yes, reap what you sow and all that. Spain has a massive unemployment problem as a direct result of Hernan Cortez's "visit" to South America.
southy wrote:So what are you saying? Benefit abuse is ok, because lol colonial past?
bigfella777 wrote:What about went England milk other countrys, took there wealth and bought it back with them, and all those big Tax advoiders.
The UK is like a huge cow that is being milked by anyone who can get here.
Same as Southy's UK; maybe you'd see better if you weren't all ears?
Start at the very top those that are costing the country the most and work down wards.
If only it was as simple as this, southy. I agree that there are certain companies who aren't paying their fair share of corporation tax. But that problem is a little more complex than "let's make them pay tax". Let's solve something we know we can solve, first. Like rampant benefit abuse.
It be far easier and cheaper to solve the Tax adviodence problem first, that just requires putting back the financial strictions that M Thatcher removed in the 80's.
Tax evaders is in the £ billions each years.
Benefit cheats only amounts to £ millions
George4th
says...
7:01pm Mon 10 Sep 12
You can see what is achievable if you try. I admire anyone who tries, really tries...............
Inform Al
says...
8:31am Tue 11 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:My arms are getting very tired, can I lower them now please?
Hands up anybody who would like to pay less tax than they currently do?
Inform Al
says...
8:34am Tue 11 Sep 12
Bowmore wrote:And of course if they increased Remploy instead of closing it down some that would dearly like to work will be able to.
Taskforce 141 wrote:I completely agree that everyone capable of doing some form of work, I a believe there are very few that would not be capable of doing something, should have do something for the community in return for their benefits.
When will the government learn, benefits appear to be easy to claim, christ i even know of eastern Europeans over here claiming for children still back in their home land!
Whilst I respect the fact that good jobs are few and far between, lets get the work ethic into people - No benefits unless you complaint 16 hours a week unpaid/voluntary work! i dont care if we have to give everyone a broom and black bag - our streets are a disgrace so lets get people out there making a difference and earning their keep!
i am fed up of giving up my wages to support sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others!
chunky_lover
says...
9:41am Tue 11 Sep 12
bigfella777 wrote:You'll never make anything of yourself.
Why bother working when you can get paid not to.
You will be labelled, correctly, as scum.
No one will ever respect you.
You will live a pointless existence.
Cyber__Fug
says...
11:33am Tue 11 Sep 12
bigfella777 wrote:I think the majority here do have sex..... unfortunately they are on their own when they do it ;o)
Why does everyone have to ruin every thread with their political viewpoint?
It's so boring no one cares,you all need sex.
AspieMum
says...
12:14pm Tue 11 Sep 12
sw8296 wrote:Workless households will include households with disabled and their carers- full time carers work very hard and yet their household would be counted as workless unless there is someone else in the household who has a paid job. Their work i unpaid so doesn't count as work even though they have to be doing 35hrs or more a week to count as Carers as well as those they care for must get high or medium levels of care component of DLA or high levels of PIPs.
So a household where a couple both took early retirement (before 64) is counted as workless?
Given the relative affluence of the region, then we should expect to see a fair number of these?
And perhaps that explains while the IoW has such a high proportion of "workless"?
AspieMum
says...
12:41pm Tue 11 Sep 12
Inform Al wrote:They also need to not force people to quit existing voluntary work, which in some cases is work that will get them experience that will help them get a job, to stack shelves in a shop or such like on Workfare
Bowmore wrote:And of course if they increased Remploy instead of closing it down some that would dearly like to work will be able to.
Taskforce 141 wrote:I completely agree that everyone capable of doing some form of work, I a believe there are very few that would not be capable of doing something, should have do something for the community in return for their benefits.
When will the government learn, benefits appear to be easy to claim, christ i even know of eastern Europeans over here claiming for children still back in their home land!
Whilst I respect the fact that good jobs are few and far between, lets get the work ethic into people - No benefits unless you complaint 16 hours a week unpaid/voluntary work! i dont care if we have to give everyone a broom and black bag - our streets are a disgrace so lets get people out there making a difference and earning their keep!
i am fed up of giving up my wages to support sponging inbred losers with no ambition or thought for others!
rightway
says...
5:42pm Tue 11 Sep 12
No-one in their right mind should criticize those unable to work through ill health, early retirement or any other legitimate reason but, the parasites that are happy to grab what they can, giving nothing in return to society should be exposed for the lowlifes they are. This to a greater extent should apply to the mega rich, who regard tax as something that only the less well off pay.
Georgem
says...
12:17am Wed 12 Sep 12
rightway wrote:How do you spot the ones where people choose not to work?
Why not just give the figure for homes where the adults choose not to work, those that are capable to work and those who are unable to work are two very different things.
No-one in their right mind should criticize those unable to work through ill health, early retirement or any other legitimate reason but, the parasites that are happy to grab what they can, giving nothing in return to society should be exposed for the lowlifes they are. This to a greater extent should apply to the mega rich, who regard tax as something that only the less well off pay.
menotyou
says...
9:51am Wed 12 Sep 12
rightway
says...
5:31pm Wed 12 Sep 12
Georgem wrote:It shouldn’t really be that difficult.
rightway wrote: Why not just give the figure for homes where the adults choose not to work, those that are capable to work and those who are unable to work are two very different things. No-one in their right mind should criticize those unable to work through ill health, early retirement or any other legitimate reason but, the parasites that are happy to grab what they can, giving nothing in return to society should be exposed for the lowlifes they are. This to a greater extent should apply to the mega rich, who regard tax as something that only the less well off pay.How do you spot the ones where people choose not to work?
An in-depth interview that would include looking at work history to see if there was a work history, medical checks to see if someone is physically or mentally capable of work and an educational check to explain to those incapable of understanding that lazyitis is not a medical condition.
bigfella777 says...
11:48am Mon 10 Sep 12