City chiefs to bid for millions after Liverpool port decision (From Daily Echo)
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Port bosses urge council to bid for EU cash after 'Cruise Wars' decision
12:20pm Wednesday 23rd May 2012 in Shipping
By Keith Hamilton, Shipping & Heritage Reporter
The Crown Princess on the River Mersey.
City leaders have pledged to bid for millions of pounds of European Union money for Southampton following the Government’s decision to allow Liverpool to become a “turn-around’’ cruise ship port.
They believe the Merseyside city’s victory over Southampton in the so-called Cruise Wars has set a precedent that could unlock EU cash for projects including the planned fifth cruise terminal put on hold last year.
Southampton port bosses are urging council chiefs to bid for public funds to be used in the same way as Liverpool.
Doug Morrison, ABP’s port director in Southampton, said: “If Liverpool council is allowed to do this then why can’t Southampton City Council do the same?
“We are disappointed, but we knew this decision was coming and now Liverpool have been given the green light by the Government it does open up the question of why Southampton is not following suit and seeking out funding which could be used to help the port.’’ New leader of Southampton City Council Cllr Richard Williams said: “That is a very fair question and I shall be meeting with the EU next week as I believe the Liverpool decision still has a distance to go before the scheme can be put into action.
“I understand the EU holds a significant amount, which has been underspent on UK infrastructure, totalling something like one billion euros, and this has to be used by 2014 otherwise it reverts back to the Treasury.
“If we could obtain just a slice of this money it would be a real opportunity and I shall be taking this up with the EU next week.’’ Cllr Williams also plans to lobby Business Secretary Vince Cable over the ministerial decision.
Liverpool leaders have vowed to press ahead with its plans to host a turn-around cruise by the end of this month without approval from the EU, which provided £8.6m to the project.
Newly elected mayor and former city council leader Joe Anderson said as far as he was concerned yesterday’s announcement would mean liners could use Liverpool for turn-around.
He added that the council would “cross that bridge” if and when the EU demanded its money back.
Although Liverpool claims it will be a popular with the cruise industry, it is thought the big, international operators will remain loyal to Southamp-ton, although some smaller shipping lines might be willing to try out the northern port.
The long-running row centred around the fact that Liverpool received a cash from the Government and the EU to build its present passenger terminal having pledged not to host turn-around cruises. Meanwhile Southampton has built its reputation as northern Europe’s centre for cruising purely as a result of private investment by ABP.
Shipping minister Mike Penning, due to visit Southamp-ton port today, said a one-off payment of £8.8m, or £12.6m over 15 years, would be enough for restrictions to be lifted. The Merseysiders had offered just £5.5m of the £9.2m Government grant.
Mr Penning told MPs yesterday: “In my view this represents a fair outcome that addresses competition concerns while enhancing the benefits to secure which the grants were initially paid.”
Southampton Itchen MP John Denham said decision “vindicates the campaign that I and many organisations in the city have been running.”
He added: “However, Liverpool is still only being asked to pay back less than half the subsidy they have received. It’s now down to the EU to ensure that state aid rules are fairly applied.”
Comments(55)
Lone Ranger.
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12:43pm Wed 23 May 12
bigfella777
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12:53pm Wed 23 May 12
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derek james
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1:08pm Wed 23 May 12
ohmywell
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1:09pm Wed 23 May 12
arthur dalyrimple
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1:10pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick
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1:23pm Wed 23 May 12
'nuff said.
Fourbrick
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1:43pm Wed 23 May 12
You are a bit out with your Cunard/White Star moving to Southampton a hundred years ago, They moved in 1968, Forty four years ago. It was the White Star Line only, which moved to Southampton in 1907, due to the strong competition from Cunard at Liverpool. Both companies merged in 1934
The Salv
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1:59pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick wrote:not anymore - what has Liverpool actually got to offer, a city built on slavery and music scene that is living in the past.
Southampton is a place you sail from.... Liverpool is a place you sail to. 'nuff said.
thebigtruthdog
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2:18pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick
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2:19pm Wed 23 May 12
Have you ever been to Liverpool? Have you been lately? If not, you have a very pleasant surprise waiting for you.
The waterfront is a World Heritage site- What has your cruise terminal to offer? It looks like a dockyard.
Liverpool architecture is also recognised globally, consisting of a unique mix of contemporary and classical buildings. There’s the soaring Gothic Revival Liverpool Cathedral, the biggest Anglican Cathedral in the UK and the modernist architecture of the Catholic Cathedral, affectionately known as ‘Paddy’s Wigwam’, with its vast stained glass crown.
Liverpool’s noted architecture also includes the stunning St George’s Hall, described by Prince Charles as the finest example of neo-classical architecture in the country. .
Yes, the City was built on the proceeds of slavery, but that doesn't alter the fact that is a beautiful city. And yes, The Beatles were the greatest group ever. (Still are, come to think of it.)
Let's see which city cruise passengers prefer to arrive and depart from.
thebigtruthdog
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2:28pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick wrote:Southampton still has the allure of crusie heritage, after all the people stepping off in Liverpool, were all in chains and beaten if they didnt move fast enough!
@The Salv Have you ever been to Liverpool? Have you been lately? If not, you have a very pleasant surprise waiting for you. The waterfront is a World Heritage site- What has your cruise terminal to offer? It looks like a dockyard. Liverpool architecture is also recognised globally, consisting of a unique mix of contemporary and classical buildings. There’s the soaring Gothic Revival Liverpool Cathedral, the biggest Anglican Cathedral in the UK and the modernist architecture of the Catholic Cathedral, affectionately known as ‘Paddy’s Wigwam’, with its vast stained glass crown. Liverpool’s noted architecture also includes the stunning St George’s Hall, described by Prince Charles as the finest example of neo-classical architecture in the country. . Yes, the City was built on the proceeds of slavery, but that doesn't alter the fact that is a beautiful city. And yes, The Beatles were the greatest group ever. (Still are, come to think of it.) Let's see which city cruise passengers prefer to arrive and depart from.
good-gosh
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2:33pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick wrote:Southampton: gentle double tide, scenic river, gentle Solent exit, 50 miles to the continent, 2 degrees warmer, natives speak English.
Southampton is a place you sail from.... Liverpool is a place you sail to.
'nuff said.
virginia1
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2:47pm Wed 23 May 12
Who's laughing now
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3:04pm Wed 23 May 12
The Salv wrote:Even though we still get no 1 albums in America? It seems your views are living in the past.Being a sore loser just makes me more smug.
Fourbrick wrote:not anymore - what has Liverpool actually got to offer, a city built on slavery and music scene that is living in the past.
Southampton is a place you sail from.... Liverpool is a place you sail to. 'nuff said.
arizonan
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3:07pm Wed 23 May 12
And Liverpool does have an International Slavery Museum to give the full story.
Have London and Bristol come to terms with their involvement?
thebigtruthdog
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3:10pm Wed 23 May 12
virginia1 wrote:Well right next o the shopping centre is the oldest city wall in existence in europe, just down from there is the Merchants house, there is a cinema, music and a variety of sights to see. I also happen to like Liverpool and think this has gone a little bit too far. Anyone for a cuppa?
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
Vonnie
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3:11pm Wed 23 May 12
The Salv wrote:And was not some of Southampton's 19th cent wealth gained off the backs of 18th cent sugar cane slaves??
Fourbrick wrote: Southampton is a place you sail from.... Liverpool is a place you sail to. 'nuff said.not anymore - what has Liverpool actually got to offer, a city built on slavery and music scene that is living in the past.
ohec
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3:21pm Wed 23 May 12
The Salv
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4:50pm Wed 23 May 12
Who's laughing now wrote:Didnt "One Direction" just become more succesfull than the Beatles in the USA. We all live in a yellow submarine... come on! Over rated and living in the past.
The Salv wrote:Even though we still get no 1 albums in America? It seems your views are living in the past.Being a sore loser just makes me more smug.Fourbrick wrote: Southampton is a place you sail from.... Liverpool is a place you sail to. 'nuff said.not anymore - what has Liverpool actually got to offer, a city built on slavery and music scene that is living in the past.
freakyzulu
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4:50pm Wed 23 May 12
thebigtruthdog wrote:Actually there are many more city walls older than the one in Southampton which dates back to the French Raids in 1338. For example the Chester City Walls date back to 70-80 AD and are still in existance and you can still walk along them. Also only 20 mins from Liverpool
virginia1 wrote: I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!Well right next o the shopping centre is the oldest city wall in existence in europe, just down from there is the Merchants house, there is a cinema, music and a variety of sights to see. I also happen to like Liverpool and think this has gone a little bit too far. Anyone for a cuppa?
dango
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4:56pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick wrote:Fourbrick, can you tell the scousers in my local what they're missing out on please, with a bit of luck they'll pi55 off back up there and I won't have to listen how great 'the 'pool' is any longer ;)
@The Salv
Have you ever been to Liverpool? Have you been lately? If not, you have a very pleasant surprise waiting for you.
The waterfront is a World Heritage site- What has your cruise terminal to offer? It looks like a dockyard.
Liverpool architecture is also recognised globally, consisting of a unique mix of contemporary and classical buildings. There’s the soaring Gothic Revival Liverpool Cathedral, the biggest Anglican Cathedral in the UK and the modernist architecture of the Catholic Cathedral, affectionately known as ‘Paddy’s Wigwam’, with its vast stained glass crown.
Liverpool’s noted architecture also includes the stunning St George’s Hall, described by Prince Charles as the finest example of neo-classical architecture in the country. .
Yes, the City was built on the proceeds of slavery, but that doesn't alter the fact that is a beautiful city. And yes, The Beatles were the greatest group ever. (Still are, come to think of it.)
Let's see which city cruise passengers prefer to arrive and depart from.
loosehead
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5:02pm Wed 23 May 12
virginia1 wrote:Did you try Tudor house? The Red Lion Pub ( where Henry the 8th slept) did you consider a quick trip to the Isle Of Wight?
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
Try it again & arrive back in cowes week or go into the New Forest & visit Exbury or Beaulieu car museum.or a quick drive & visit the Ancient Capital of England which is Winchester or Historic Portsmouth these are 10-15 mins slow driving from Southampton so what do you mean by too far away?
Fourbrick
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5:07pm Wed 23 May 12
"All i can say is good luck to the cruise ships if they are trying to attract people from that area, as many people will know that have been on holiday when a plane from Manchester arrives with its load of foul mouthed drunks men and women and the children are no better, it makes you really proud to be British."
Go look at
http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/campaign
s/keepkidssobercampa
ign/news/8669516.Chi
ld_booze_problem_in_
city/
People who live in glass houses etc.
Fourbrick
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5:16pm Wed 23 May 12
virginia1
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5:17pm Wed 23 May 12
loosehead wrote:Unfortunately no we didnt. Your city doesn't do much to promote what there is to see and do and Cunard promotes the fastest route to London once the ship docks.
virginia1 wrote:Did you try Tudor house? The Red Lion Pub ( where Henry the 8th slept) did you consider a quick trip to the Isle Of Wight?
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
Try it again & arrive back in cowes week or go into the New Forest & visit Exbury or Beaulieu car museum.or a quick drive & visit the Ancient Capital of England which is Winchester or Historic Portsmouth these are 10-15 mins slow driving from Southampton so what do you mean by too far away?
Torchie1
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5:28pm Wed 23 May 12
arizonan wrote:You haven't listed the dozens of locations in Africa where the slaves were originally sold by their fellow countrymen. Overlooked for political reasons but fact all the same.
Slavery was a disgrace to this country, but to blame one city is to avoid the fact that London and Bristol were involved also.
And Liverpool does have an International Slavery Museum to give the full story.
Have London and Bristol come to terms with their involvement?
virginia1
says...
5:41pm Wed 23 May 12
Fourbrick wrote:Oh My ! I thought you where all British over there .From some of these comments It seems the people in the south dont think they are the same nationality as the people in the north!
@ohec
"All i can say is good luck to the cruise ships if they are trying to attract people from that area, as many people will know that have been on holiday when a plane from Manchester arrives with its load of foul mouthed drunks men and women and the children are no better, it makes you really proud to be British."
Go look at
http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/campaign
s/keepkidssobercampa
ign/news/8669516.Chi
ld_booze_problem_in_
city/
People who live in glass houses etc.
Zeo
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7:27pm Wed 23 May 12
MerseyMart
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7:31pm Wed 23 May 12
As we have come to expect, the lead article completely misrepresents the issue. Liverpool did not build a terminal with EU or government money but simply a landing stage - something that you don't need at Soton because of your low tidal range. We now have a temporary terminal but that has been built with local funding.
The insults being heaped on Liverpool (and I guess by people who have never set foot in our city) miss the point. We are not promoting Liverpool as a destination but as an embarkation point for cruise liners.
At the end of the day, what has this Southern Echo campaign achieved other than to increase the amount of money that Liverpool has to pay to government at a time of severe cuts? How has Soton benefited?
I wish you well in obtaining any EU funding that you can but don't forget that the rail and road improvements that have improved access to your port were publicly funded to the tune of some £40million - more that twice the total grants given to Liverpool for its landing stage.
bluescouse
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7:41pm Wed 23 May 12
Neil G
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7:42pm Wed 23 May 12
ABP AND SOUTHAMPTON talk about a level playing field< however jUST WHEN WILL ABP REGISTER THIS BUSINESS SUBJECT TO THE NORMAL UK TAXES PAYABLE
THEY HAVE REGISTERED THIS BUSINESS WHICH IS BEING OPERATED IN UK PORTS WHILE THEY IN AN OFF SHORE ISLAND CALLED JERSEY SIMPLY TO AVIOD PAYING THE CORRECT TAX (TAX LOOPHOLE / FIDDLE) THEY HAVE THE CHEEK TO ATTACK A LOCAL CITY COUNCIL WHO PAY THE FULL AMOUNT OF UK TAXES AT ALL TIMES. IF LIVERPOOL IS PREPARED TO PAY THE NINE MILLION POUNDS OF GRANTS BACK WILL ABP NOW REGISTER THE COMPANY IN THE UK AND PAY ITS EARNING VIA THE UK TAX SYSTEM. LETS FACE IT THE UK NEEDS ITS BUSINESSES MORE THAN EVER TO BE FAIR AND REASONABLE AND PAY ITS WAY. SOMEHOW ABP WILL ASK THE ECHO TO REMOVE THIS BECAUSE THE TRUTH HURTS
Tom Liverpool
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8:00pm Wed 23 May 12
I genuinely hope that you can get grants from the E.U. but don't be surprised if objections come from all over the U.K. You haven't made many friends over this issue, and remarks from many of your posters are at the least insulting to areas all over the North of England. You have the same problems with crime and anti social behaviour as do most places in the U.K.
Just remember 20 Million people live within a one and a half hour drive from Liverpool the city has good rail and road links and an international airport served by major airlines, the infrastructure exists, it's just waiting for the opportunity to serve the cruise ships if they choose to come here.
Baybrit
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9:06pm Wed 23 May 12
virginia1 wrote:I think that somebody should send this note to the Southampton City Council to show what a really bad job their publicity department seem to be doing and suggest that they get their fingers out when it comes to pushing local places of interest particularly to Americans and others crossing the Atlantic. There's a whole bunch of things which they're just not making tourists and other visitors aware of.
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
loosehead
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9:13pm Wed 23 May 12
virginia1 wrote:Under the last council they were working with the cruise companies & different amenities to promote what there is on offer down here but that party are no longer in power.
loosehead wrote:Unfortunately no we didnt. Your city doesn't do much to promote what there is to see and do and Cunard promotes the fastest route to London once the ship docks.
virginia1 wrote:Did you try Tudor house? The Red Lion Pub ( where Henry the 8th slept) did you consider a quick trip to the Isle Of Wight?
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
Try it again & arrive back in cowes week or go into the New Forest & visit Exbury or Beaulieu car museum.or a quick drive & visit the Ancient Capital of England which is Winchester or Historic Portsmouth these are 10-15 mins slow driving from Southampton so what do you mean by too far away?
If you went on to the website of the Red Lion Southampton you will see it's a tudor building which is a pub.
we have Tudor house,Woolhouse & tours around the city walls.
If you cruised in July-August & you enjoy out door classical concerts there's many in this area.
Last Night of the Proms is at Broadlands there's one in Portchester & Maverick Park Bournemouth which is 30miles away (20-30 mins drive).
We have Romsey Abbey It's a pity but my sister ran a B&B & all of these were advertised. It's not in your face as soon as you get off the ship but it's there.
If you like ancient ruins then you have the ruins of King Canutes Palace plus the spot where he tried stopping the water?
or you have Cowes week, Bournemouth Beach Sandwich,Ventnor & Ryde in easy reach on the Red Funnel Ferry.
Plus Calshot activity center I will try & find out if there's a site for you to look it all up & I'm not from another Nation my dad was a scouse & played a Harmonica plus spoons & Comb.
It was the underhanded way Liverpool went about this that has stirred this up.
When I say Liverpool I mean Liverpool Council not the ordinary people of Liverpool
Fatty x Ford Worker
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9:47pm Wed 23 May 12
bigfella777
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9:59pm Wed 23 May 12
Proud from LIVERPOOL
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10:21pm Wed 23 May 12
Proud from LIVERPOOL
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10:35pm Wed 23 May 12
southy
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9:15am Thu 24 May 12
Lone Ranger. wrote:I agree we put to much in the EU and get very little back
Fantastic news for the people of Southampton ..... Onwards and Upwards
southy
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9:24am Thu 24 May 12
arizonan wrote:And Southampton was just not as much as the west coast. just think how many convicts slaves was sent to the Americas though Southampton, and there was also Botany Bay.
Slavery was a disgrace to this country, but to blame one city is to avoid the fact that London and Bristol were involved also.
And Liverpool does have an International Slavery Museum to give the full story.
Have London and Bristol come to terms with their involvement?
southy
says...
9:35am Thu 24 May 12
thebigtruthdog wrote:Its no where near the oldest city walls, there a complet town in France with its wall totally intact.
virginia1 wrote:Well right next o the shopping centre is the oldest city wall in existence in europe, just down from there is the Merchants house, there is a cinema, music and a variety of sights to see. I also happen to like Liverpool and think this has gone a little bit too far. Anyone for a cuppa?
I have visited both Liverpool and Southampton and think hands down Liverpool is a far more attractive city than Southampton. It has so much more to offer the visitor. We took the Queen Mary home and the only thing we could find to do in Southampton while we waited for our allotted check in time was sit in Marks and Spencers and drink coffee. Any thing else worth visiting was just too far away, what a let down!
The oldest city walls in Europe are in Spain check your history some walls date back to the romans
liberty2
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9:58am Thu 24 May 12
Condor Man
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10:02am Thu 24 May 12
Condor Man
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1:20pm Thu 24 May 12
arizonan
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4:15pm Thu 24 May 12
Of course it is, Liverpool does not need London passengers, they can travel from Harwich, Dover, Southampton or London itself.
dionne18
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3:35am Fri 25 May 12
AlwynM
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6:50am Fri 25 May 12
Joe Anderson has pledged that the new Cruise Terminal which is now being planned will be the best in the UK.
Secondly? I nearly laughed my head off at the headline to this article, but then I was immensely saddened.
So, after months, if not years, of trying to sink Liverpool's desire to have it's cruise passengers not sale from a dock overlooking scrap heap and maintain it's
AlwynM
says...
6:51am Fri 25 May 12
Joe Anderson has pledged that the new Cruise Terminal which is now being planned will be the best in the UK.
Secondly? I nearly laughed my head off at the headline to this article, but then I was immensely saddened.
So, after months, if not years, of trying to sink Liverpool's desire to have it's cruise passengers not sale from a dock overlooking scrap heap and maintain it's
AlwynM
says...
6:51am Fri 25 May 12
Joe Anderson has pledged that the new Cruise Terminal which is now being planned will be the best in the UK.
Secondly? I nearly laughed my head off at the headline to this article, but then I was immensely saddened.
So, after months, if not years, of trying to sink Liverpool's desire to have it's cruise passengers not sale from a dock overlooking scrap heap and maintain it's
AlwynM
says...
6:54am Fri 25 May 12
Edwick
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6:55pm Sun 27 May 12
It is not only just the north of England that will be able to use this port for joining cruises but also people living in Scotland.
Lets hope many of the cruising companies use their facilities.
.
Who's laughing now
says...
12:06pm Tue 29 May 12
Lee Horton, frrom Heywood, near Manchester, said: "We're highly honoured to be the first people to use the new facility. We've been following it on the local news and we'll definitely be using it again."
Chris Mooney, from Huddersfield, said: "It seems very well organised and will be a real asset to Liverpool. Why on earth do you want to go to Southampton?"
Read More http://www.liverpool
echo.co.uk/liverpool
-news/local-news//tm
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erpool-s-turnaround-
cruise-facility-as-o
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in-city%26method=ful
l%26objectid=3106726
1%26siteid=100252-na
me_page.html#ixzz1wF
uyMSLY
Robert.b
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2:02pm Wed 30 May 12
loosehead
says...
9:37pm Sun 3 Jun 12
Edwick wrote:But if you believe Proud you already had Langton as a turnaround so why lie & cheat to get another?
Good luck to Liverpool and their chance to operate cruise ship turn rounds.
It is not only just the north of England that will be able to use this port for joining cruises but also people living in Scotland.
Lets hope many of the cruising companies use their facilities.
.
The Salv says...
12:36pm Wed 23 May 12