VISION OF THE FUTURE: An artist's impression of the public square and apartment tower at the heart of the proposed new Centenary Quay development at Woolston looking out to the River Itchen.
DEVELOPERS behind Southampton's flagship £500m Woolston Riverside project have boosted the number of homes by almost ten per cent and slashed the space available for businesses in half.
A five-year wait for a planning application for the former Vosper Thornycroft warship factory ended this week when developers Crest Nicholson and Dean & Dyball unveiled their interpretation of the stunning vision presented by world famous architect Richard Rogers.
Re-branded Centenary Quay, the new version has 1,653 flats and houses, up from the original plan for 1,510, prompting fears too many homes were being crammed onto the site.
Originally planned to create 1,000 jobs, site bosses predicted fierce competition amongst marine businesses to get a space in the development and make use of the old shipbuilders' deep-water quay.
Now the space available for marine business has been cut from nearly 40,000 square metres to just over 21,000 square metres.
Despite the dramatic reduction in space, developers claim the land will still support more than 1,000 jobs.
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The decision was criticised by marine business consortium Marine South East, which said the move was designed to increase profits at the expense of the community.
MSE chief executive Jonathon Williams said: "This is a rare site. We want to safeguard sites like these for future wealth creation.
"I would say that the original plan for nearly 40,000 square feet was acceptable - not ideal, but at least it preserved part of the site for industrial uses. To go back on it now and virtually halve it is something we will be making strong representations about.
"I wouldn't say I'm surprised. For a developer it's a no-brainer. You get more profit from the site the more residential housing you can put on it. From the point of view of the local economy it is totally different. The local economy isn't interested in the short-term benefit to the developer, it is interested in long- term wealth creation.
"We need to see how this could be in the interests of the local or sub regional economy."
Marine South East is a group part funded by regional development agency SEEDA, which bought the old factory for £15m when VT relocated to Portsmouth and commissioned the original masterplan.
As well as the homes and jobs, the plan envisages a 100-bed hotel, a supermarket, shops, bars, healthcare, open space and a library being built on the 31 acres.
Andrew Middleton, a spokesman for the Woolston Community Association, predicted opposition to the scale of development.
"They are forever increasing the number of dwellings. The density is far too high," he said.
"It's going to cause terrible problems with parking because there will be too many people crammed into a small space."
Local councillors were also worried by the changes.
Labour Woolston councillor Warwick Payne said: "I'm disappointed that it is looking likely there will be fewer jobs provided than were originally planned. Woolston needs skilled jobs to replace those lost when VT closed. Reducing the amount of land available for employment on the site is not going to help.
"Some residents had already expressed views about the number of homes proposed so the fact that there are now more on the table isn't going to go down well. If we go too far then rather than having 1,500 reasonably good homes on the site we could be left with a scheme with hundreds of homes that are very poor quality."
"It was already looking as if it was getting to the limit of how far they could go. However we do need to get moving on this project. We can't afford to have the site sitting derelict year after year."
Tory Councillor Royston Smith, opposition spokes-man for economic development, said: "The point was to make sure maritime employment was high on the list. If they've halved the floor space for that then it's very disappointing.
"It's not quite the way it was in the Richard Rogers vision. For what it needs to achieve I suppose it's adequate. It's not going to give us a wow factor."
Woolston ward councillor Richard Williams, also cabinet member for environment and sustainability, said: "We have to be sensitive about the number of units and what the need for that extra 100 is. It's almost an extra ten per cent. I would like to see more justification."
Cllr Williams also had concerns about the reduction in marine employment space and "proper skilled employment."
"I think it's a disappointing to put it mildly. The area needs services like supermarkets and stores but that was a marine employment site."
The information given to residents could also have been better, he said.
"I would like to have seen more communication over the past couple of years. Things have come out in dribs and drabs."
David Farr, a long-time Woolston resident and retired marine businessman who has campaigned for better waterfront access across the city, said he was disappointed there was be no waterside walkway on the commercial section of the site nor in front of the three proposed tower blocks.
"All they are interested in is having expensive flats on the water front with no public access," he said.
Deborah Aplin, managing director of Crest Nicholson Regeneration, said: "South-ampton's new waterfront will create a rich mix of places for the whole community to enjoy a new civic square, public gardens and a riverside walk. We're working closely with the council to provide a scheme that meets the needs of the community and will continue to liaise with them on a regular basis."
A spokesman for the Richard Rogers Partnership said it was not their policy to comment.
Posted by: Keith Oftergrass on 9:59am Fri 14 Mar 08
Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ?
Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ?
Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
Posted by: Parthian, Winchester on 10:17am Fri 14 Mar 08
More flats, fewer jobs. Hmmm. Wonder who that benefits? This is typical - big, greedy developers are running the show, doing what suits their pocket and screwing the city in the process. This will be another Weston - I bet that looked great on the drawing board too. Someone got very rich there while generations of residents have had to live with the misery of it.
This is a golden opportunity for southampton, but a weak council is allowing developers to destroy it for their own gain.
This must be stopped before it's too late
More flats, fewer jobs. Hmmm. Wonder who that benefits? This is typical - big, greedy developers are running the show, doing what suits their pocket and screwing the city in the process. This will be another Weston - I bet that looked great on the drawing board too. Someone got very rich there while generations of residents have had to live with the misery of it.
This is a golden opportunity for southampton, but a weak council is allowing developers to destroy it for their own gain.
This must be stopped before it's too late
[quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote:
It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] When is this happening?
I need a helping hand on the property market....
Robert wrote:
It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
[quote][bold]Bob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....[/quote] Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller.
Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats!
Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.
Bob wrote:
Robert wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....
Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller.
Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats!
Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.
Posted by: The voice of reason on 10:34am Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Parthian[/bold] wrote:
More flats, fewer jobs. Hmmm. Wonder who that benefits? This is typical - big, greedy developers are running the show, doing what suits their pocket and screwing the city in the process. This will be another Weston - I bet that looked great on the drawing board too. Someone got very rich there while generations of residents have had to live with the misery of it. This is a golden opportunity for southampton, but a weak council is allowing developers to destroy it for their own gain. This must be stopped before it's too late [/quote] Golden opportunity?
What would you actually build there?
Parthian wrote:
More flats, fewer jobs. Hmmm. Wonder who that benefits? This is typical - big, greedy developers are running the show, doing what suits their pocket and screwing the city in the process. This will be another Weston - I bet that looked great on the drawing board too. Someone got very rich there while generations of residents have had to live with the misery of it. This is a golden opportunity for southampton, but a weak council is allowing developers to destroy it for their own gain. This must be stopped before it's too late
Posted by: Condor Man, Southampton on 10:36am Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote:
It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%
Robert wrote:
It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%
There is absolutly no way the roads in and out of woolston will cope with such a development. It's bad enough trying to get on to Hamble Lane from Portsmouth Road as it is. Why not put the aero museum there.
There is absolutly no way the roads in and out of woolston will cope with such a development. It's bad enough trying to get on to Hamble Lane from Portsmouth Road as it is. Why not put the aero museum there.
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%[/quote] The seller I mentioned had to cut his asking price by 10% to sell it. That represent a drop in price of around 25K.
It is entirely possible that properties at the bottom end of the market (1-bed flats) could see 50% shaved off of their current "book" values.
Condor Man wrote:
Robert wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%
The seller I mentioned had to cut his asking price by 10% to sell it. That represent a drop in price of around 25K.
It is entirely possible that properties at the bottom end of the market (1-bed flats) could see 50% shaved off of their current "book" values.
Posted by: Parthian, Winchester on 10:48am Fri 14 Mar 08
Fair question Mr Reason - I think a mix of waterside homes and businesses taking advantage of the deepwater quay is the right way to go, but it's the density that's all wrong here and the way the amount of space for firms has dwindled to allow profits to swell.
Marine industry is a key part of the economy here and this site could be a fantastic new centre for the business. As it is it looks like an afterthought perched on the edge of a nightmare 1960s housing estate
Fair question Mr Reason - I think a mix of waterside homes and businesses taking advantage of the deepwater quay is the right way to go, but it's the density that's all wrong here and the way the amount of space for firms has dwindled to allow profits to swell.
Marine industry is a key part of the economy here and this site could be a fantastic new centre for the business. As it is it looks like an afterthought perched on the edge of a nightmare 1960s housing estate
The development is in a number of phases. The first things to be built will be a supermarket, hotel and some small retail outlets. Then the marine business area will be built and lastly the flats and houses as they will only go up if the market has turned by then. So don't expect to see the blocks of flats being built for at least 5 to 10 years.
The development is in a number of phases. The first things to be built will be a supermarket, hotel and some small retail outlets. Then the marine business area will be built and lastly the flats and houses as they will only go up if the market has turned by then. So don't expect to see the blocks of flats being built for at least 5 to 10 years.
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!!
I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped?
But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!!
I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped?
But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Posted by: Jez's bro, Soton on 11:21am Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Estate agent[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Bob[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....[/quote] Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.[/quote] FYI...
Houses in Waterside Park just up from this potential development have been selling within weeks. Mainly because they have sea views. The Vosper site is a very prestigeous site and will sell well. The only draw back is the sewage works.
This also falls within the governments criteria for new builds and therefore will be supported. Once the soil tests are complete and the best solution sought for the sewage works, this development will be staged.
The site cost over 250m GBP and therefore wont be wasted!
Be as cynical as you like, you can't stop progress. Even if houses prices do fall, which would take years (unless of major political/financial change), the profit this site will generate is huge and houses are still needed even if people are losing money?
My advice to Estate Agent would be to move to a better area..maybe Woolston. I hear they are going to get some new flats and houses!
Estate agent wrote:
Bob wrote:
Robert wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....
Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.
FYI...
Houses in Waterside Park just up from this potential development have been selling within weeks. Mainly because they have sea views. The Vosper site is a very prestigeous site and will sell well. The only draw back is the sewage works.
This also falls within the governments criteria for new builds and therefore will be supported. Once the soil tests are complete and the best solution sought for the sewage works, this development will be staged.
The site cost over 250m GBP and therefore wont be wasted!
Be as cynical as you like, you can't stop progress. Even if houses prices do fall, which would take years (unless of major political/financial change), the profit this site will generate is huge and houses are still needed even if people are losing money?
My advice to Estate Agent would be to move to a better area..maybe Woolston. I hear they are going to get some new flats and houses!
[quote][bold]King Mushes nei ghbour[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]chuckles[/bold] wrote:
more good money wasted on the local pikeys,just demolish the whole hellzone and ship them back to pompey.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Oi Mush
Just cos we have to struggle on benefits and cant afford luxuries like Carabeen holidays or contraceptives, it dont mean we are Pikeys. And why not spend money on making our area look nice and giving our kids somethin to do. Just cos we like telly. We are people too.[/quote] Yes it does. And no, they dont deserve it.
Get back to your educational learning programme – or have you already watched that this morning?
King Mushes nei ghbour wrote:
chuckles wrote:
more good money wasted on the local pikeys,just demolish the whole hellzone and ship them back to pompey.
Oi Mush
Just cos we have to struggle on benefits and cant afford luxuries like Carabeen holidays or contraceptives, it dont mean we are Pikeys. And why not spend money on making our area look nice and giving our kids somethin to do. Just cos we like telly. We are people too.
Yes it does. And no, they dont deserve it.
Get back to your educational learning programme – or have you already watched that this morning?
[quote][bold]No neighbours[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]King Mushes nei ghbour[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]chuckles[/bold] wrote: more good money wasted on the local pikeys,just demolish the whole hellzone and ship them back to pompey.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Oi Mush Just cos we have to struggle on benefits and cant afford luxuries like Carabeen holidays or contraceptives, it dont mean we are Pikeys. And why not spend money on making our area look nice and giving our kids somethin to do. Just cos we like telly. We are people too.[/quote] Yes it does. And no, they dont deserve it. Get back to your educational learning programme – or have you already watched that this morning?[/quote] Probably watching a cousin on Jeremy Kyle!
No neighbours wrote:
King Mushes nei ghbour wrote:
chuckles wrote: more good money wasted on the local pikeys,just demolish the whole hellzone and ship them back to pompey.
Oi Mush Just cos we have to struggle on benefits and cant afford luxuries like Carabeen holidays or contraceptives, it dont mean we are Pikeys. And why not spend money on making our area look nice and giving our kids somethin to do. Just cos we like telly. We are people too.
Yes it does. And no, they dont deserve it. Get back to your educational learning programme – or have you already watched that this morning?
[quote][bold]Estate agent[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Bob[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....[/quote] Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.[/quote] he may be right that the development may suffer but suggesting house prices will fall by 50% is rubbish
Estate agent wrote:
Bob wrote:
Robert wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....
Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.
he may be right that the development may suffer but suggesting house prices will fall by 50% is rubbish
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush.
Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush.
Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
Hey not all of the areas of Woolston are bad. I do think that they have their priorities wrong though. Firstly I think that they should look at improving the shopping area and road. Where the old Co-op was is it wise having flats right in the middle of the shopping area. Would be good to have the new development, but I think they need to look at everything else first.
Hey not all of the areas of Woolston are bad. I do think that they have their priorities wrong though. Firstly I think that they should look at improving the shopping area and road. Where the old Co-op was is it wise having flats right in the middle of the shopping area. Would be good to have the new development, but I think they need to look at everything else first.
Posted by: Nick, Woolston on 12:14pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
Posted by: bingolover, having a chuckle on 12:16pm Fri 14 Mar 08
It will be interesting to see what happens about the sewage works. Go past Vospers when the wind's blowing the wrong way and....Phewee! I wouldn't buy property down there at the moment as it really does stink and what's the point of a river view if you can't open you're windows??! Am glad that Woolston's getting a facelift though, the high street is like a derelict ghost town. It's about time the city council were doing more in areas of the city that the tourists don't visit :-)
It will be interesting to see what happens about the sewage works. Go past Vospers when the wind's blowing the wrong way and....Phewee! I wouldn't buy property down there at the moment as it really does stink and what's the point of a river view if you can't open you're windows??! Am glad that Woolston's getting a facelift though, the high street is like a derelict ghost town. It's about time the city council were doing more in areas of the city that the tourists don't visit :-)
Posted by: Keith Oftergrass on 12:17pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ?
There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ?
There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn\\\'t much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people\\\'s homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!![/quote] Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs???
Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?!
People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes.
If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston.
The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs???
Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?!
People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes.
If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston.
The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote:
Wow...my comment was so good it got on there twice. [/quote] I hope you are not comparing to New York. So good they named it twice
Jez wrote:
Wow...my comment was so good it got on there twice.
I hope you are not comparing to New York. So good they named it twice
Posted by: Man made global warming unbeliever, Sholing on 1:22pm Fri 14 Mar 08
All that extra revenue coming to the council as the new inhabitants of Woolston cough up 50p a time to enter their own city centre over the Itchen Bridge
All that extra revenue coming to the council as the new inhabitants of Woolston cough up 50p a time to enter their own city centre over the Itchen Bridge
I live in Woolston because that's where I could get a key worker flat to rent. It's not so bad. Certainly better than Shirley, where I lived previously, anyway. Like all places it has it's idiots but that won't change where ever you go. I do agree with the person that said they should sort out the high street and the shops before trying to cram more people in.
I live in Woolston because that's where I could get a key worker flat to rent. It's not so bad. Certainly better than Shirley, where I lived previously, anyway. Like all places it has it's idiots but that won't change where ever you go. I do agree with the person that said they should sort out the high street and the shops before trying to cram more people in.
Posted by: Robert, Highfield on 1:27pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Condor Man[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won\'t happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You\'ll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%[/quote] Property historically has always been no more than 3.9x income. Currently average family incomes are 30k.
100 or 125% mortgages are now becoming rare.
The LIBOR rate is rising, mortgages will get more expensive.
Demand may be high, but who will be able to borrow enough?
Condor Man wrote:
Robert wrote: It won\'t happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You\'ll see developments like this be mothballed.
you clearly know nothing about the property market, with demand still high prices would be lucky to drop by 5%
Property historically has always been no more than 3.9x income. Currently average family incomes are 30k.
100 or 125% mortgages are now becoming rare.
The LIBOR rate is rising, mortgages will get more expensive.
Demand may be high, but who will be able to borrow enough?
Posted by: Keith Oftergrass on 1:35pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]jez[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn\\\'t much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people\\\'s homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!![/quote] Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs???
Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?!
People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes.
If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston.
The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!![/quote] What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service.
It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?
jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs???
Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?!
People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes.
If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston.
The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service.
It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?
Posted by: Robert, Highfield on 1:45pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Christoff[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Estate agent[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Bob[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Robert[/bold] wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices [bold]fall[/bold] by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed. [/quote] When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....[/quote] Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.[/quote] he may be right that the development may suffer but suggesting house prices will fall by 50% is rubbish[/quote] I get no pleasure in saying that house prices will fall, but every bubble bursts, and housing is no exception.
The fundamentals of supply and demand apply - great supply, but no demand due to credit tightening.
We're 6 months behind the US.
Christoff wrote:
Estate agent wrote:
Bob wrote:
Robert wrote: It won't happen - the credit crunch will see house prices fall by up to 50%. You'll see developments like this be mothballed.
When is this happening? I need a helping hand on the property market....
Depends where you are in the market. In my street a house would last year sell within 3-4 weeks. That has now become 6 months for the most recent seller. Robert is correct, this development will not happen. Then eventually new permission will be sought for something different - perhaps 800 3-bedroom flats! Doesn't help you much at the moment. Even if you could afford a 1-bed flat in town - think of the service charges on top.
he may be right that the development may suffer but suggesting house prices will fall by 50% is rubbish
I get no pleasure in saying that house prices will fall, but every bubble bursts, and housing is no exception.
The fundamentals of supply and demand apply - great supply, but no demand due to credit tightening.
Posted by: god, not, Keith again on 1:49pm Fri 14 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn\\\'t much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people\\\'s homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!![/quote] Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!![/quote] What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?[/quote] why don't you move from away from Southampton Keith? You seem to hate everything about it and have nothing good to say about anything associated with it.
have you many friends?
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?
why don't you move from away from Southampton Keith? You seem to hate everything about it and have nothing good to say about anything associated with it.
Posted by: AJM, Southampton on 2:27pm Fri 14 Mar 08
As someone who has known the area for 40 years & seen a nice area destroyed by Southampton council, first by the building of a bridge through the centre of it,then no investment in infrastructure or ammenities for the locals, finally with the help of the anti Southampton orginisation known as SEEDA they relocated the prime employer in the area to Porstmouth.
This chain of events were followed by five years of inactivity leading to an artists impression of yet more flats & road grid lock.
Well done Southampton Council who have proved yet again they cannoy organise a p*** up in a brewery.
As someone who has known the area for 40 years & seen a nice area destroyed by Southampton council, first by the building of a bridge through the centre of it,then no investment in infrastructure or ammenities for the locals, finally with the help of the anti Southampton orginisation known as SEEDA they relocated the prime employer in the area to Porstmouth.
This chain of events were followed by five years of inactivity leading to an artists impression of yet more flats & road grid lock.
Well done Southampton Council who have proved yet again they cannoy organise a p*** up in a brewery.
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn\\\'t much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people\\\'s homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!![/quote] Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!![/quote] What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?[/quote] Blue line stopped baecause the company wasn't big enough to pay the upkeep costs.
First still operate a service to Thornhill? But..also...Woolston is nothing like Thornhill???
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?
Blue line stopped baecause the company wasn't big enough to pay the upkeep costs.
First still operate a service to Thornhill? But..also...Woolston is nothing like Thornhill???
[quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.[/quote] Don't forget the tail backs of Hamble lane. It can take 20 + mintues to come off at windhover roundabout go down Hamble lane and reach the toll bridge.
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
Don't forget the tail backs of Hamble lane. It can take 20 + mintues to come off at windhover roundabout go down Hamble lane and reach the toll bridge.
Posted by: Donna Stephens, Hamble on 5:02pm Fri 14 Mar 08
My we have some wits onboard today! Have just returned from looking at some flats in the old BT building in town, big price tag (350,000 and that's been reduced!) and tiny rooms. There is a huge surplus of flats failing to sell all over this once lovely city. As folk have said, too many greedy developers. We need waterfront access for residents and visitors. A boardwalk and open spaces,with cafes and ferry services to town ( and Hamble!)would be my vision, with decent housing for human beings, not rabbit hutches in the sky!
PS can we stop this habit of linking up everyone's comments; it makes the reading so difficult!
My we have some wits onboard today! Have just returned from looking at some flats in the old BT building in town, big price tag (350,000 and that's been reduced!) and tiny rooms. There is a huge surplus of flats failing to sell all over this once lovely city. As folk have said, too many greedy developers. We need waterfront access for residents and visitors. A boardwalk and open spaces,with cafes and ferry services to town ( and Hamble!)would be my vision, with decent housing for human beings, not rabbit hutches in the sky!
PS can we stop this habit of linking up everyone's comments; it makes the reading so difficult!
Posted by: Anon, Southampton on 7:30pm Fri 14 Mar 08
GREEEEEAT! More flats! Just what everyone DOESNT want!
Developers seem to have an obsession with building millions of new flats (or as they are sometimes refered to as 'luxury appartments') in the city.
Almost every new development is flats nowadays.
The Echo would do well to start a campaign against developers building all these new appartments. Most developers don't care about the environment or the people who live there, it's all about maximising profits!
GREEEEEAT! More flats! Just what everyone DOESNT want!
Developers seem to have an obsession with building millions of new flats (or as they are sometimes refered to as 'luxury appartments') in the city.
Almost every new development is flats nowadays.
The Echo would do well to start a campaign against developers building all these new appartments. Most developers don't care about the environment or the people who live there, it's all about maximising profits!
Posted by: Keith Oftergrass on 9:20am Sat 15 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Nick[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]local[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jez[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Keith Oftergrass[/bold] wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)[/quote] What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?[/quote] Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn\\\'t much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people\\\'s homes.[/quote] There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.[/quote] ...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!![/quote] Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!![/quote] What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?[/quote] Blue line stopped baecause the company wasn't big enough to pay the upkeep costs. First still operate a service to Thornhill? But..also...Woolston is nothing like Thornhill???[/quote] I think in your previous description of the horrendous crimes in Woolston of late you've made the point that it is just like Thornhill. Stabbings, vandalism and increasing crime....plus the congestion !
Think about it.
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote:
Nick wrote:
local wrote:
Jez wrote:
Keith Oftergrass wrote: Artists impression - would it not be better to have employed an architect ? Could they also design the 4 lane highway that will be required to ease congestion in this area ? Or perhaps they could just level the rest of Woolston (probably get a design prize ofr that)
What congestion!! I live just outside Woolston and travel through Victoria Road every day....you have to wait for 5 minutes to clear the Itchen Bridge? The Avenue is far worse than Woolston. New roads will be placed through the development to clear Victoria road which will help and yes of course that many homes will create more traffic, but Hedge End has coped? But I do agree that getting rid of some of the very tatty parts of Woolston is needed, but hopefully this venture will sort all of this as the area will become more prestigeous and desired?
Junction 7 of the M27 at Hedge End gets stuffed up by the traffic lights at Thornhill Park Road/Hinker Road regularly in the evening rush. Hedge End copes fairly well because they invested a lot in the road infrastructure when they built there. There isn't much that can be done down at Woolston without a lot of demolition of people's homes.
There will be a ferry from Woolston to Town Quay, which will link to the Free Bus up to town. Also Woolston has a railway station and excellent bus links.
...yes but how long before the local yobbos have forced the bus and ferry companies to stop services ? There is so much pond life round that way what decent person will want to live there - even with gated security these toerags will get in !!!
Name a service that has stopped because of yobs being yobs??? Pond life might damage things and cause as much trouble as they can, but I don't think they will stop the busses or ferries?! People need to embrace this issue and give support. Open the water front, get the river taxi, get more bus routes open and increase the school sizes. If you are referring to the council houses up by Weston, that is miles away. Woolston is quite pleasant, just a bit run down. Afterall it is all old dockers cottages, not built for beauty? Even if you look at the tragic events with Lewis Singleton, his killers came from Bursledon, not Woolston. The M27 problem is with people trying to cut through Woolston to get to town quicker...it isn't because of Woolston!! Muppets!!
What about the Blue Line buses in Townhill Park .....yobs stopped this service. It also sounds like all the many problems associated with Woolston (which you identified) are someone elses problem ? Bit convenient that ?
Blue line stopped baecause the company wasn't big enough to pay the upkeep costs. First still operate a service to Thornhill? But..also...Woolston is nothing like Thornhill???
I think in your previous description of the horrendous crimes in Woolston of late you've made the point that it is just like Thornhill. Stabbings, vandalism and increasing crime....plus the congestion !
Posted by: Somebody with a cheap car, London on 6:05pm Sun 16 Mar 08
I used to live in Woolston a few years back and was appalled at the insular attitude of the young, the levels of boredom experienced by many and swathes of poorly educated people with a bleak future. I would have liked SEEDA + developers integrate more social sustainability into the development - such as community-based activities, seeking ways in which the development could be used to train young in practical skills and pass over more of the site's operation to the locals - hence ensuring that there is greater community buy-in from an early start and promoting the amount of jobs sourced locally in the area. Some of the above may go against short-term profit for the developer, but should be more economically sustainable beyond. Note that SEEDA is NOT a private company and does not use a shareholder model. In addition, it is a shame that there is so much emphasis upon building sustainability (insulation, windows, building materials) and not enough on ‘social’ sustainability. The surrounding is desperately need of a massive boost - so lets not enhance the level of local inequality and instead provide jobs, training and housing for local people.
I used to live in Woolston a few years back and was appalled at the insular attitude of the young, the levels of boredom experienced by many and swathes of poorly educated people with a bleak future. I would have liked SEEDA + developers integrate more social sustainability into the development - such as community-based activities, seeking ways in which the development could be used to train young in practical skills and pass over more of the site's operation to the locals - hence ensuring that there is greater community buy-in from an early start and promoting the amount of jobs sourced locally in the area. Some of the above may go against short-term profit for the developer, but should be more economically sustainable beyond. Note that SEEDA is NOT a private company and does not use a shareholder model. In addition, it is a shame that there is so much emphasis upon building sustainability (insulation, windows, building materials) and not enough on ‘social’ sustainability. The surrounding is desperately need of a massive boost - so lets not enhance the level of local inequality and instead provide jobs, training and housing for local people.
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