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Vision for Southampton's Royal Pier
A RADICAL new vision to redevelop Southampton's Royal Pier is only weeks away from being revealed.
Port bosses - who own the pier that was destroyed in two blazes - are on the verge of naming a preferred developer for the multi-million-pound project.
An announcement was expected last Friday, but Associated British Ports this week resumed secret talks with two developers.
It is understood the mixed-use development of housing, shops, bars and restaurants will be a scaled down version of a scheme that collapsed two years ago when ABP pulled the plug because of cost concerns.
The pier is central to Southampton City Council's £1.5 billion vision to transform the city and for the waterfront to eventually rival that at Gunwharf Quays in Portsmouth.
The major development does not threaten the future of restaurateur Kuti Miah's new Thai restaurant, inside the 100-year-old Royal pavilion, which is due to open shortly.
It will rise on the derelict pier and nearby Mayflower Park. The council is seeking assurances that the Southampton Boat Show won't be left homeless.
Reclaiming land from the seabed is seen as a solution. However, the £20m cost is a major stumbling block with neither ABP nor the council wishing to foot the bill.
The council is also keen for the development to enhance public space and for the waterfront to be open to all city residents and visitors.
9:00am Thursday 15th November 2007
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CommentPosted by: shop worker, southampton on 10:02am Thu 15 Nov 07
why don`t the council just spend the money looking after their historical sites like the bargate etc..
why don`t the council just spend the money looking after their historical sites like the bargate etc..
Posted by: Sotonian, Southampton on 10:24am Thu 15 Nov 07
A couple of points:
The pier pavilion was destroyed many years ago - what you are referring to is the gatehouse, built about 70 years ago.
Mayflower Park is owned by the City Council - not ABP
A couple of points:
The pier pavilion was destroyed many years ago - what you are referring to is the gatehouse, built about 70 years ago.
Mayflower Park is owned by the City Council - not ABP
Posted by: Denzil, Romsey on 10:26am Thu 15 Nov 07
As long as we get a nice Burberry shop like Portsmuff then all will be ok with me.
As long as we get a nice Burberry shop like Portsmuff then all will be ok with me.
Posted by: Onlooker, Souhampton on 10:45am Thu 15 Nov 07
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf.
This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use.
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf.
This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use.
Posted by: Peter, 280-835 on 11:04am Thu 15 Nov 07
Knowing our City council, be prepared to be VERY under whelmed. Spinaker tower it wont be.
Knowing our City council, be prepared to be VERY under whelmed. Spinaker tower it wont be.
Posted by: live local, southampton on 11:05am Thu 15 Nov 07
Hold on we have been here before.
1 Ocean village A dynamic shoping complex with designer outlets.... Badly built and over priced so no shops stayed and the place then fell apart and has now bee rebuilt as flats and a couple of pubs/ bars.
2 Town Quay read as per ocean village and add that it is now used as a stopping point for the Hythe ferry and red jet
So can we get it right a thrid time somehow I doubt it.
Could the wow factor be another white elephant to add to the herd?
Hold on we have been here before.
1 Ocean village A dynamic shoping complex with designer outlets.... Badly built and over priced so no shops stayed and the place then fell apart and has now bee rebuilt as flats and a couple of pubs/ bars.
2 Town Quay read as per ocean village and add that it is now used as a stopping point for the Hythe ferry and red jet
So can we get it right a thrid time somehow I doubt it.
Could the wow factor be another white elephant to add to the herd?
Posted by: PL on 11:28am Thu 15 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Peter[/bold] wrote:
Knowing our City council, be prepared to be VERY under whelmed. Spinaker tower it wont be.[/quote] I agree, this will be a wasted opurtunity.
Southampton CC just isn't capable of delivering anything quite like Gunwharf and the Spinaker tower.
The original plans were hardly inspiring so I dread to think what the new scaled down plans will look like.
I can't wait......
Peter wrote:
Knowing our City council, be prepared to be VERY under whelmed. Spinaker tower it wont be.
I agree, this will be a wasted opurtunity.
Southampton CC just isn't capable of delivering anything quite like Gunwharf and the Spinaker tower.
The original plans were hardly inspiring so I dread to think what the new scaled down plans will look like.
I can't wait......
Posted by: gorf, soton on 11:31am Thu 15 Nov 07
[bold]Lets just hope this vision is one that we'd all like to see....
i dont see it riviling gunwharf tho....i have no faith in our council for that!
would like to see southampton city centre linked with waterfront though!!!![/bold]
Lets just hope this vision is one that we'd all like to see....
i dont see it riviling gunwharf tho....i have no faith in our council for that!
would like to see southampton city centre linked with waterfront though!!!! Posted by: A Tupper, Sholing on 11:35am Thu 15 Nov 07
Be like Gunwharf, like bloody hell it will. What a joke. With most of the in city east-west traffic diverted from the city centre to run past the present Town Quay it would be like running a two lane highway through Gunwharf. Much as I hate to say it but Gunwharf is welcoming, it has great shops and restaurants; it is somewhere people want to go and was built by a forward thinking local authority. That will be a real novelty in Southampton. It also has an underground car park. Are we going to get that too? I’ll believe that when I see it. And of course, less than a mile away, bringing even more traffic to a city that has been plagued by traffic mismanagement for a generation, we will have Ikea. Traffic planning in Southampton already ensures that traffic in the Town Quay area is bloody terrible. Traffic management in Southampton has to be about the worst in the country. And ABP they think people are going to come flocking to the Pier area. What are they going to use, trains? Well, we have three or four years of train disruption starting soon so that’s out. Buses - expensive, unreliable, almost non-existent after dark, the mobile nests of thugs and bullies and driven by ill tempered cretins; or taxis – cheaper to travel by bloody Concorde than to take a taxi in Southampton.
Be like Gunwharf, like bloody hell it will. What a joke. With most of the in city east-west traffic diverted from the city centre to run past the present Town Quay it would be like running a two lane highway through Gunwharf. Much as I hate to say it but Gunwharf is welcoming, it has great shops and restaurants; it is somewhere people want to go and was built by a forward thinking local authority. That will be a real novelty in Southampton. It also has an underground car park. Are we going to get that too? I’ll believe that when I see it. And of course, less than a mile away, bringing even more traffic to a city that has been plagued by traffic mismanagement for a generation, we will have Ikea. Traffic planning in Southampton already ensures that traffic in the Town Quay area is bloody terrible. Traffic management in Southampton has to be about the worst in the country. And ABP they think people are going to come flocking to the Pier area. What are they going to use, trains? Well, we have three or four years of train disruption starting soon so that’s out. Buses - expensive, unreliable, almost non-existent after dark, the mobile nests of thugs and bullies and driven by ill tempered cretins; or taxis – cheaper to travel by bloody Concorde than to take a taxi in Southampton.
Posted by: Sotonian on 11:51am Thu 15 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Onlooker[/bold] wrote:
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf. This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use. [/quote] Point taken - I was just trying to make the distinction that it was separately owned from the pier and not ABPs domain
Onlooker wrote:
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf. This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use.
Point taken - I was just trying to make the distinction that it was separately owned from the pier and not ABPs domain
Posted by: Keith Oftergrass on 11:54am Thu 15 Nov 07
Praise be.... I opened this story expecting news of an Ice-rink !
All we have to worry about now is the illegal parking that will result with this development.
Praise be.... I opened this story expecting news of an Ice-rink !
All we have to worry about now is the illegal parking that will result with this development.
Posted by: Noname on 12:03pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Anything is better than the rusty rotten wreck thats there at the mo.
Anything is better than the rusty rotten wreck thats there at the mo.
Posted by: Visionary, Southampton on 12:03pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Look Out! ABP are only interested in their own profit, that is why they object to anything and everything including the new Ikea proposal.
That is also why they will support the town quay proposals initially, but then revamp them to have excess numbers of flats/apartments added.
They don't want you on 'their' land enjoying the waterfront unless there is the aforementioned fat juicy profit.
Look Out! ABP are only interested in their own profit, that is why they object to anything and everything including the new Ikea proposal.
That is also why they will support the town quay proposals initially, but then revamp them to have excess numbers of flats/apartments added.
They don't want you on 'their' land enjoying the waterfront unless there is the aforementioned fat juicy profit.
Posted by: Harry Remmington, New Forest on 12:04pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Sadly apart from the Tyrel & Green building the rest of the retail area is composed of cheap and ugly short term industrial units. There is a more welcoming shopping atmosphere at Lordswood
Sadly apart from the Tyrel & Green building the rest of the retail area is composed of cheap and ugly short term industrial units. There is a more welcoming shopping atmosphere at Lordswood
Posted by: SpinDoc, SOTON on 12:14pm Thu 15 Nov 07
ABP are against any residential being built down at town quay. In fact, it is rumoured that they have a directive across the Company not to sell any ABP land to residential developers – They don’t want to have owners of luxury flats suing them over noise/health and safety issues etc. Mad, but I believe to be very true. That is the real reason why Town Quay fell through last year and why we are stuck in a stale mate situation with Mayflower park.
ABP are against any residential being built down at town quay. In fact, it is rumoured that they have a directive across the Company not to sell any ABP land to residential developers – They don’t want to have owners of luxury flats suing them over noise/health and safety issues etc. Mad, but I believe to be very true. That is the real reason why Town Quay fell through last year and why we are stuck in a stale mate situation with Mayflower park.
Posted by: Sotonian, Southampton on 12:26pm Thu 15 Nov 07
[quote][bold]SpinDoc[/bold] wrote:
ABP are against any residential being built down at town quay. In fact, it is rumoured that they have a directive across the Company not to sell any ABP land to residential developers – They don’t want to have owners of luxury flats suing them over noise/health and safety issues etc. Mad, but I believe to be very true. That is the real reason why Town Quay fell through last year and why we are stuck in a stale mate situation with Mayflower park. [/quote] Cant see that is the case. Virtually all the buildings fronting the docks along Canute Road are now flats. As is the old post office at the main gate. I'm sure all these properties have protective covenants written into them.
SpinDoc wrote:
ABP are against any residential being built down at town quay. In fact, it is rumoured that they have a directive across the Company not to sell any ABP land to residential developers – They don’t want to have owners of luxury flats suing them over noise/health and safety issues etc. Mad, but I believe to be very true. That is the real reason why Town Quay fell through last year and why we are stuck in a stale mate situation with Mayflower park.
Cant see that is the case. Virtually all the buildings fronting the docks along Canute Road are now flats. As is the old post office at the main gate. I'm sure all these properties have protective covenants written into them.
Posted by: CAROL, southampton on 12:44pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Anything is preferable to what we have there at the moment. But do Southampton CC have the bottle to do it properly. Somehow I don;t think so.
Anything is preferable to what we have there at the moment. But do Southampton CC have the bottle to do it properly. Somehow I don;t think so.
Posted by: bella, southampton on 2:15pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Oh my GOD, Southampton's going to sink with all this building going on. Ikea and West Quay AND the pier!!! Traffic will be a nightmare, and the crowds will be worse than London on a Saturday at the moment!!
Oh my GOD, Southampton's going to sink with all this building going on. Ikea and West Quay AND the pier!!! Traffic will be a nightmare, and the crowds will be worse than London on a Saturday at the moment!!
Posted by: ex so'ton, Abingdon on 3:58pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Oh no, not another Pie(r)-in-the-sky scheme, seems like another Brighton West Pier show resurrected, and will never be completed despite long-term plans. Bella correct, too much traffic generated when Ikea is up and running.
Oh no, not another Pie(r)-in-the-sky scheme, seems like another Brighton West Pier show resurrected, and will never be completed despite long-term plans. Bella correct, too much traffic generated when Ikea is up and running.
Posted by: Mike, So'ton on 4:19pm Thu 15 Nov 07
[bold]I hope someone checks up on what they can and can not do with Mayflower Park![/bold]
Reading the Echo, it always mentions the park being part of the re-development. Poor journalism, or are the council trying it on!
Also, what part of the port is now owned by the Chinese Company? All the waterfront or just the new docks, with ABP owning the rest?
I hope someone checks up on what they can and can not do with Mayflower Park!
Reading the Echo, it always mentions the park being part of the re-development. Poor journalism, or are the council trying it on!
Also, what part of the port is now owned by the Chinese Company? All the waterfront or just the new docks, with ABP owning the rest?
Posted by: paul browne, southampton on 5:01pm Thu 15 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Mike[/bold] wrote:
[bold]I hope someone checks up on what they can and can not do with Mayflower Park![/bold] Reading the Echo, it always mentions the park being part of the re-development. Poor journalism, or are the council trying it on! Also, what part of the port is now owned by the Chinese Company? All the waterfront or just the new docks, with ABP owning the rest?[/quote] I hope the plans will take into account the future of all stakeholders who use the waterfront at mayflower park not just the boat show including the fishermen who fish from there
like ocean village once housing goes up the fishermen are banned from that area
With anglers soon to be charged for a license to sea fish defras planned policy is to open up areas of waterfront for anglers
perhaps ABP would consider reopening areas of the docks for anglers as this will no doubt result in anglers being banned from mayflower park
Mike wrote:
I hope someone checks up on what they can and can not do with Mayflower Park! Reading the Echo, it always mentions the park being part of the re-development. Poor journalism, or are the council trying it on! Also, what part of the port is now owned by the Chinese Company? All the waterfront or just the new docks, with ABP owning the rest?
I hope the plans will take into account the future of all stakeholders who use the waterfront at mayflower park not just the boat show including the fishermen who fish from there
like ocean village once housing goes up the fishermen are banned from that area
With anglers soon to be charged for a license to sea fish defras planned policy is to open up areas of waterfront for anglers
perhaps ABP would consider reopening areas of the docks for anglers as this will no doubt result in anglers being banned from mayflower park
Posted by: Ted, Southampton on 5:43pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Oh dear, I think we're putting too much faith into ABP doing anything right. You only have to see their recent failures in project management to see they don't have a clue. Look at Dibden Bay, Ocean Village and the last attempt at doing something with Town Quay.
Also, look at the mish mash they've made in the infrastructure around the docks, especially the roads! Hmmmm....
Oh dear, I think we're putting too much faith into ABP doing anything right. You only have to see their recent failures in project management to see they don't have a clue. Look at Dibden Bay, Ocean Village and the last attempt at doing something with Town Quay.
Also, look at the mish mash they've made in the infrastructure around the docks, especially the roads! Hmmmm....
Posted by: Bus Driver, Southampton on 5:52pm Thu 15 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Onlooker[/bold] wrote:
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf. This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use. [/quote] try getting into MAYFLOWER PARK free for recreation use when the boat show is on and you'll get thrown out,,,
it may belong to the public, but they can't get access all year round...
Onlooker wrote:
I think you will find that Mayflower Park is owned by the people of Southampton and not the council. They only look after it on our behalf. This is why the Boat Show has to gain permission to use the park and also why it can not close the park on the August Bank Holiday Monday as it must be open for people to use.
try getting into MAYFLOWER PARK free for recreation use when the boat show is on and you'll get thrown out,,,
it may belong to the public, but they can't get access all year round...
Posted by: Daz, Southampton on 5:56pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Why not reclaim the land, build IKEA there and then let it sink out of sight!
Why not reclaim the land, build IKEA there and then let it sink out of sight!
Posted by: King Mush, Woolston on 9:46pm Thu 15 Nov 07
Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport'
I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.
Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport'
I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.
Posted by: Robert on 7:04am Fri 16 Nov 07
The "port bosses" should stop smoking the whacky baccy. That way they won't get any more visions and we can all relax again.
The "port bosses" should stop smoking the whacky baccy. That way they won't get any more visions and we can all relax again.
Posted by: paul browne, southampton on 12:55pm Fri 16 Nov 07
[quote][bold]King Mush[/bold] wrote:
Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport' I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.[/quote] I take it you dont eat fish i will be there on sunday why not come on down and we could have a little disscussion perhaps i could give someone with mush for brains a swimming lesson that you so rightly deserve
King Mush wrote:
Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport' I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.
I take it you dont eat fish i will be there on sunday why not come on down and we could have a little disscussion perhaps i could give someone with mush for brains a swimming lesson that you so rightly deserve
Posted by: King Mush, Woolston on 1:28am Mon 19 Nov 07
[quote][bold]paul browne[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]King Mush[/bold] wrote: Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport' I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.[/quote] I take it you dont eat fish i will be there on sunday why not come on down and we could have a little disscussion perhaps i could give someone with mush for brains a swimming lesson that you so rightly deserve [/quote] May I presume that this is a threatening post? Please qualify.
Sorry-couldnt make it on Sunday- it was raining too much for 'normal' people to be sat on a cold windy seawall.
paul browne wrote:
King Mush wrote: Who gives a toss about anglers? Sad empty headed loners who feel the need to escape from reality and torture fish for a so called 'sport' I often watch these sadists fishing/angling off Mayflower Park and often feel the urge to boot them over the edge. One day....one day. Whoops - better not as I would end up on an Echo news story.
I take it you dont eat fish i will be there on sunday why not come on down and we could have a little disscussion perhaps i could give someone with mush for brains a swimming lesson that you so rightly deserve
May I presume that this is a threatening post? Please qualify.
Sorry-couldnt make it on Sunday- it was raining too much for 'normal' people to be sat on a cold windy seawall.
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