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What now for the Royal Pier?
OUT of the ashes of yet another failed multi-million pound scheme to redevelop Royal Pier, Southampton has been given the opportunity to breathe new life into its once premier waterfront.
A new look-out point, maritime museum, bars, cafes, restaurants and even a luxury hotel are on the wish list of the city's business and political leaders who say developing the site will instil renewed pride in Southampton.
Whatever happens, they unanimously agree it must be open to all residents and visitors as it is the city's last remaining waterfront site.
Southampton City Council and the port bosses have already promised to look at ways of removing the remains of the derelict pier, which was destroyed in a blaze in 1992.
In its place will be new moorings to accommodate more boats in the water during the Southampton Boat Show.
They say the moorings - plus unlimited use of berth 101 during the ten-day event - will ensure the prestigious show remains in Southampton.
Nobody knows how much removing the remains of the pier will cost and it hasn't been decided if owners ABP will pay the bill, however port director Doug Morrison said the proposal was a display of the port's commitment to the city.
"It's potentially going to cost ABP a lot of money and the city must ask why ABP must pay for it? The answer is that we recognise the importance of the boat show to the city and we recognise our role within the community," he said.
"There is no doubt the pier is an eyesore and the best thing is to remove it. We must take stock, we've secured the long-term future of the boat show and let's see if we can come up with some exciting plans. That's for the council, it's not for us to do that."
However, Lib Dem Cllr Steve Sollitt said he was against demolishing the historical pier, which was opened by Princess Victoria in 1833.
"It gives you a great view of the water and also up and down the docks. It would be a shame to lose that opportunity, it's something Southampton has had for a long time, and one of the key locations on the waterfront that is different."
Southampton Partnership chair Ros Cassy said there would be a lot of interest from hotel, restaurant and bar owners to be a part of any new development.
"With the Queen Victoria down here this week there is a real sense of excitement and we must build on it. I am sure there will be a lot of interest in the site as it is potentially very attractive," she said.
"The fears of the people living in the Old Town is that their views will be blocked by flats, so any development must be sympathetic and not shut out people from the water."
The recently collapsed multi-million pound scheme would have seen at least 1,000 flats rising on the pier and land reclaimed from the seabed.
After months of talks with major developers, Associated British Ports decided the £20m cost of land reclamation meant not enough money would have been made out of the development.
The only way of making it financially viable would have been to build thousands more flats, similar to the residential-dominated marina Ocean Village, and ABP weren't going to allow that to happen because of the disruption it would cause to their port operations.
Once the boat show's future is assured the council will go back to the drawing board to look at what can be done with the 20-hectare site.
As it stands, the only redevelopment certain to happen at the pier is restaurateur Kuti Miah's new Thai eatery in the Royal Pavilion.
With the council now leading talks with developers, Cllr Smith said he too would resist the urge to transform the pier into another Ocean Village.
However, without the millions of pounds that new residential units would inject into the development, any new scheme would be on a far smaller scale.
"Frankly I don't think I would want to see that sort of residential development on the waterfront. You have to remember that people criticised the council for Ocean Village and they call that a wasted opportunity," he said.
Mr Morrison pledged ABP's continued commitment to giving the city a waterfront it could be proud of, but agreed it was time the council took control.
"It allows the city to really think about what they want to do down there, it's not good enough to just say let's put up high rise flats and that will give us a waterfront. There is a point where it does become viable if you build thousands of flats, but I don't think the solution is to turn the Royal Pier into another Ocean Village," he said.
Labour leader Councillor June Bridle said the biggest issue was reconnecting the waterfront with the city.
"It's vital that residents and visitors can see the water and watch fantastic liners such as the Queen Victoria arriving at Southampton," she said.
"That obviously comes at a price and there may have to be a residential element to the development. I am not against residential units down there, but it should not be an exclusive, locked away development that shuts out the community."
She said lessons must be learnt from Ocean Village and the development must encourage a lively atmosphere.
"There is nothing wrong with an idea of hotel, it would help bring the area to life. It must not be a dead development, it has to engage with the waterfront and show that Southampton is a proud city - at the moment the pier is not doing that."
One ambitious proposal is for a tourist attraction celebrating Southampton's rich maritime heritage to be incorporated into any new plans.
The council's leisure chief gave the idea his backing, saying it was a "golden opportunity" to provide the city with the maritime attraction that it lacks at the moment.
"The Royal Pier development must encourage people - both residents and visitors - to visit the waterfront, rather than just be for those who live there," councillor John Hannides said.
A lookout giving visitors an opportunity to view cruise liners and container ships coming in and out of the docks could be incorporated into the centre.
It is hoped some of Southampton's most famous vessels - including the Calshot lightship - would also become a permanent feature.
They say the famous red vessel - which guided vessels in and out of Southampton Water - would be an iconic floating tourist attraction moored alongside the pier.
Southampton Heritage Foundation chairman Alan Jones said: "I would love to see her by the pier with her light going once again.
"It would become a fantastic icon of the city."
12:00pm Tuesday 11th December 2007
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CommentPosted by: Mr D. Boyle, Cornwall on 12:26pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Although moved to cornwall 10 years ago , i still visit regularly . I've watched from afar as Southampton City council have gone backwards , year after year , huffed and puffed about re-development's etc.All this while Portsmouth plough on , with the starting of another £500 million project this week .When are they going to wake up ?
Although moved to cornwall 10 years ago , i still visit regularly . I've watched from afar as Southampton City council have gone backwards , year after year , huffed and puffed about re-development's etc.All this while Portsmouth plough on , with the starting of another £500 million project this week .When are they going to wake up ?
Posted by: Family Man, Bitterne on 12:46pm Tue 11 Dec 07
I think a [bold]"well done!"[/bold] should go to Kuti's for the only development in many years, preserving a landmark building that was falling into ruin.
As for the rest of it, it simply shows up the vested interests and petty infighting for what it is...
And as for preserving the Boat Show, so what! How many residents of Southampton does it actually benefit, very very few I would imagine..The site has terrific potential for a wide range of frequent events, not just an annual gin-fest.
Ultimately I suspect that the whole site will be given over to flats in common with the entire waterfront from Weston through to Town Quay, to the detriment of everything and everybody.
Yes, I know I keep repeating the message, but someone has to!
This would have been a fantastic opportunity for Southampton to re-establish itself on the map, and once again, it is an opportunity lost through incompetence and a combination of a lack of imagination and petty minded politics.
I suppose all we will end up with is the statue of a bl**dy Spitfire aptly portrayed on its tail as if in a self destructive tail spin.
I think a
"well done!" should go to Kuti's for the only development in many years, preserving a landmark building that was falling into ruin.
As for the rest of it, it simply shows up the vested interests and petty infighting for what it is...
And as for preserving the Boat Show, so what! How many residents of Southampton does it actually benefit, very very few I would imagine..The site has terrific potential for a wide range of frequent events, not just an annual gin-fest.
Ultimately I suspect that the whole site will be given over to flats in common with the entire waterfront from Weston through to Town Quay, to the detriment of everything and everybody.
Yes, I know I keep repeating the message, but someone has to!
This would have been a fantastic opportunity for Southampton to re-establish itself on the map, and once again, it is an opportunity lost through incompetence and a combination of a lack of imagination and petty minded politics.
I suppose all we will end up with is the statue of a bl**dy Spitfire aptly portrayed on its tail as if in a self destructive tail spin.
Posted by: hmm on 1:02pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Everytime i mention an ice rink on this site, everyone agrees with me that its exactly what southampton needs
Everytime i mention an ice rink on this site, everyone agrees with me that its exactly what southampton needs
Posted by: toxteth o'grady on 1:02pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Anybody mentioned an ice-rink yet ? ;)
Anybody mentioned an ice-rink yet ? ;)
Posted by: sotonian, southompton on 1:05pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Having seen the remnants of the Royal Pier from a cruise liner something really needs to be done about it. We need access to the waterfront, As a child my grandparents often used to take me down to the pier to see the ships. There were even more then, Union Castle for one.
If the Whight link were found a different berth then that land could be used for public recreation.
In these days of pressure in the work place and home we need somewhere that we can go just to relax.
Having seen the remnants of the Royal Pier from a cruise liner something really needs to be done about it. We need access to the waterfront, As a child my grandparents often used to take me down to the pier to see the ships. There were even more then, Union Castle for one.
If the Whight link were found a different berth then that land could be used for public recreation.
In these days of pressure in the work place and home we need somewhere that we can go just to relax.
Posted by: toxteth o'grady on 1:08pm Tue 11 Dec 07
I knew i could rely upon hmmm. lol
I knew i could rely upon hmmm. lol
Posted by: Robbie, Soton on 1:28pm Tue 11 Dec 07
[bold]Let's forget about the money-grabbing property developers and have the Royal Pier rebuilt to it's original glory.[/bold]
Let's forget about the money-grabbing property developers and have the Royal Pier rebuilt to it's original glory.
Posted by: shona, southampton on 2:30pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Southampton already has far too many flats and Ocean Village is a second class development when it is comapred to Gunwarf Quays. It's not as if the COuncil haven't had the time to enourage an imaginative, useful and tasteful development of the Pier site, but when you consider how long it has taken to start the redevelopment of the old Tyrell's site, this lack of progress comes as no surpise. Any city that has a waterfront should know what a pull it can be to residents and visitors and blocks of flats are the last thing we need. Mind you so is another underwhelming development like Town Quay!
Southampton already has far too many flats and Ocean Village is a second class development when it is comapred to Gunwarf Quays. It's not as if the COuncil haven't had the time to enourage an imaginative, useful and tasteful development of the Pier site, but when you consider how long it has taken to start the redevelopment of the old Tyrell's site, this lack of progress comes as no surpise. Any city that has a waterfront should know what a pull it can be to residents and visitors and blocks of flats are the last thing we need. Mind you so is another underwhelming development like Town Quay!
Posted by: Robert on 3:03pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Install a sculpture of the Queen using the brand now loo they had to buy her in Romsey.
It can be the New Royal Pee-er.
Install a sculpture of the Queen using the brand now loo they had to buy her in Romsey.
It can be the New Royal Pee-er.
Posted by: Fred, Bristol on 4:03pm Tue 11 Dec 07
"It gives you a great view of the water and also up and down the docks."
Err if you are allowed on it, which no-one is or has been for many years.
I agree with the original poster, I left Southampton aroudn 5 years ago and watching from afar Southampton is turning into Pompey's poorer cousin.
When are Soton council going to do something to get people to visit the town? Titanic, spitfire, boat show, what else do they need FFS?!
"It gives you a great view of the water and also up and down the docks."
Err if you are allowed on it, which no-one is or has been for many years.
I agree with the original poster, I left Southampton aroudn 5 years ago and watching from afar Southampton is turning into Pompey's poorer cousin.
When are Soton council going to do something to get people to visit the town? Titanic, spitfire, boat show, what else do they need FFS?!
Posted by: Eddie, Southampton on 4:33pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Hmmm, it says it won't make enough money to be viable... isn't it time to move the boat show down to Pompey where it can be managed properly and not intefere with the local infrastructure as it does in Southampton?
Hmmm, it says it won't make enough money to be viable... isn't it time to move the boat show down to Pompey where it can be managed properly and not intefere with the local infrastructure as it does in Southampton?
Posted by: Jules, Southampton on 4:58pm Tue 11 Dec 07
This is turning out to be like another Brighton West Pier. What a terrible and sad state of affairs that was because bungling bureaucrats could not get their act together. Why can't lottery money help towards preserving this imporatant piece of Victorian architecture? Why not hand it over to English heritage or the National Trust and restore it back to its former glory. We don't need more shops, just something to be proud of and enjoy as a piece of recreation.
This is turning out to be like another Brighton West Pier. What a terrible and sad state of affairs that was because bungling bureaucrats could not get their act together. Why can't lottery money help towards preserving this imporatant piece of Victorian architecture? Why not hand it over to English heritage or the National Trust and restore it back to its former glory. We don't need more shops, just something to be proud of and enjoy as a piece of recreation.
Posted by: Michael, Southampton on 5:15pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Why can't the council get some loto funding to restore the **** thing?
Then while they're at it, move the Red Funnel operation to the other side of the Town Quay and use the area for moorings, a proper tourist attraction/docks exhibit and a maritime museum! This could have conference/bar facilities that could also be used to enhance the boat show.
Oh, and improve the bit of road there too, so there's 2 proper lanes to give the traffic queuing for Ikea more space!
Why can't the council get some loto funding to restore the **** thing?
Then while they're at it, move the Red Funnel operation to the other side of the Town Quay and use the area for moorings, a proper tourist attraction/docks exhibit and a maritime museum! This could have conference/bar facilities that could also be used to enhance the boat show.
Oh, and improve the bit of road there too, so there's 2 proper lanes to give the traffic queuing for Ikea more space!
Posted by: Ex Daily Echo Reader on 10:38pm Tue 11 Dec 07
What the hell has it got to do with the Daily Echo ? Dont you think you should put your own house in order first before you come out with all this 'self righteous' rubbish
What the hell has it got to do with the Daily Echo ? Dont you think you should put your own house in order first before you come out with all this 'self righteous' rubbish
Posted by: live local, southampton on 11:11pm Tue 11 Dec 07
[quote][bold]hmm[/bold] wrote:
Everytime i mention an ice rink on this site, everyone agrees with me that its exactly what southampton needs[/quote] No if there was any chance of this happening then it would have occured in the last 20 years ( since the last one closed) it is not a viable option and about as popular as a travellers site, it would not make money or even cover its cost so it will not happen.
hmm wrote:
Everytime i mention an ice rink on this site, everyone agrees with me that its exactly what southampton needs
No if there was any chance of this happening then it would have occured in the last 20 years ( since the last one closed) it is not a viable option and about as popular as a travellers site, it would not make money or even cover its cost so it will not happen.
Posted by: Wade Hampton on 11:26pm Tue 11 Dec 07
Come on Southampton, wake up, it's almost too late. Portsmouth's stealing all the best headlines (developments, Spinnaker Tower etc) and their roads are miles better. Hold on though, they've just introduced a blanket 20 mph limit. Methinks something of a backward step but what's the betting that our idiotic council will try to follow suit ? After all, if it's a really bad idea, then it's certain to be adopted isn't it ?
Come on Southampton, wake up, it's almost too late. Portsmouth's stealing all the best headlines (developments, Spinnaker Tower etc) and their roads are miles better. Hold on though, they've just introduced a blanket 20 mph limit. Methinks something of a backward step but what's the betting that our idiotic council will try to follow suit ? After all, if it's a really bad idea, then it's certain to be adopted isn't it ?
Posted by: Michael Gale, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada on 3:05am Wed 12 Dec 07
As my wife and I are old Sotonians and visit quite often we were saddened by the demise of the Royal Pier and had hoped for a renewal of some sort that would be futuristic as well as reflect all that Southampton has gone through over the decades. One vision I had was for a tower with a rotating restaurant at the top where patrons could enjoy a meal as they watch the scenery of city, port and country pass before them. We have such a restaurant on top of an appartment building in downtown Winnipeg that is a must for visitors to our city as well as locals wanting something different while enjoying a meal or just a glass of wine with someone dear. We hope that you find a solution to the Royal Pier soon as time for many such as us is running out and we would dealy like to see something that puts Southampton back on the map, after all Portsmouth cannot be the only show on the Solent.
As my wife and I are old Sotonians and visit quite often we were saddened by the demise of the Royal Pier and had hoped for a renewal of some sort that would be futuristic as well as reflect all that Southampton has gone through over the decades. One vision I had was for a tower with a rotating restaurant at the top where patrons could enjoy a meal as they watch the scenery of city, port and country pass before them. We have such a restaurant on top of an appartment building in downtown Winnipeg that is a must for visitors to our city as well as locals wanting something different while enjoying a meal or just a glass of wine with someone dear. We hope that you find a solution to the Royal Pier soon as time for many such as us is running out and we would dealy like to see something that puts Southampton back on the map, after all Portsmouth cannot be the only show on the Solent.
Posted by: Jane Torville, Holiday on Ice on 7:40am Wed 12 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Michael Gale[/bold] wrote:
As my wife and I are old Sotonians and visit quite often we were saddened by the demise of the Royal Pier and had hoped for a renewal of some sort that would be futuristic as well as reflect all that Southampton has gone through over the decades. One vision I had was for a tower with a rotating restaurant at the top where patrons could enjoy a meal as they watch the scenery of city, port and country pass before them. We have such a restaurant on top of an appartment building in downtown Winnipeg that is a must for visitors to our city as well as locals wanting something different while enjoying a meal or just a glass of wine with someone dear. We hope that you find a solution to the Royal Pier soon as time for many such as us is running out and we would dealy like to see something that puts Southampton back on the map, after all Portsmouth cannot be the only show on the Solent.[/quote] With an ice rink in the middle of the restaurant! Fantastic idea!
Michael Gale wrote:
As my wife and I are old Sotonians and visit quite often we were saddened by the demise of the Royal Pier and had hoped for a renewal of some sort that would be futuristic as well as reflect all that Southampton has gone through over the decades. One vision I had was for a tower with a rotating restaurant at the top where patrons could enjoy a meal as they watch the scenery of city, port and country pass before them. We have such a restaurant on top of an appartment building in downtown Winnipeg that is a must for visitors to our city as well as locals wanting something different while enjoying a meal or just a glass of wine with someone dear. We hope that you find a solution to the Royal Pier soon as time for many such as us is running out and we would dealy like to see something that puts Southampton back on the map, after all Portsmouth cannot be the only show on the Solent.
With an ice rink in the middle of the restaurant! Fantastic idea!
Posted by: Dave Langrish, Southampton on 8:47am Wed 12 Dec 07
We all know we only have one chance to get the Central Waterfront right.
Daft ideas like the Mayflower Estate fill-in-the-harbours millennium bubble 3,500 apartments notion were rightly condemned by development professionals, the Southampton public and even the UK's big housebuilders.
Major developers would never buy a pig-in-a-poke water site without serious chance of planning consent, whose acquistion alone might cost millions in specialist consultants' fees given the complexity of arrangements for any major urban extension.
Southampton City Council wasted five years (2001-2005) supporting that daft Crown Estate and ABP idea when the thing really died in April 2001.
Let's also have some accurate investigative journalism on Southampton's most important issue, instead of the current article's confused and uninformative 'well we haven't a clue either' approach from the Echo.
We all know we only have one chance to get the Central Waterfront right.
Daft ideas like the Mayflower Estate fill-in-the-harbours millennium bubble 3,500 apartments notion were rightly condemned by development professionals, the Southampton public and even the UK's big housebuilders.
Major developers would never buy a pig-in-a-poke water site without serious chance of planning consent, whose acquistion alone might cost millions in specialist consultants' fees given the complexity of arrangements for any major urban extension.
Southampton City Council wasted five years (2001-2005) supporting that daft Crown Estate and ABP idea when the thing really died in April 2001.
Let's also have some accurate investigative journalism on Southampton's most important issue, instead of the current article's confused and uninformative 'well we haven't a clue either' approach from the Echo.
Posted by: J. MOORBY, North Baddesley on 2:31pm Thu 27 Dec 07
there is somebody pulling the strings of Southampton City Council - it may be one person, maybe two - but who is it?
J. Moorby
there is somebody pulling the strings of Southampton City Council - it may be one person, maybe two - but who is it?
J. Moorby
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