Saints accuse Clattenburg of insulting Lallana

Mark Clattenburg speaks to Adam Lallana at the end of the game at Goodison Park

Mark Clattenburg speaks to Adam Lallana at the end of the game at Goodison Park

First published in Sport
Last updated

Saints have accused referee Mark Clattenburg of ‘abusing and insulting’ Adam Lallana during the recent 2-1 defeat at Everton.

The club has also requested that Clattenburg does not officiate any of their matches until the investigation is finished.

Clattenburg's alleged insult was directed at Lallana after the referee turned down late penalty appeals for handball at Goodison Park.

Saints manager Mauricio Pochettino has already publicly criticised Clattenburg's performance at Everton (see related link, below right), since when the club has complained about his alleged comments to Lallana by writing to the Professional Game Match Officials Ltd board.

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2:05am Fri 3 Jan 14

SaintinCanada says...

He is in an elite group. His fraternity will ultimately back him. The noise will eventually subside and he will remain upright and on his feet to continue.
He is in an elite group. His fraternity will ultimately back him. The noise will eventually subside and he will remain upright and on his feet to continue. SaintinCanada
  • Score: 11

4:09am Fri 3 Jan 14

Abbey Saint says...

This referee has history with this kind of complaint. The more that different clubs make the same complaint, the better, the harder it is to ignore. Football should not have to put up with referees with an inflated sense of their own self importance. It's bad enough that they're also obviously incompetent too often.
This referee has history with this kind of complaint. The more that different clubs make the same complaint, the better, the harder it is to ignore. Football should not have to put up with referees with an inflated sense of their own self importance. It's bad enough that they're also obviously incompetent too often. Abbey Saint
  • Score: 24

5:56am Fri 3 Jan 14

nervousbumskin420 says...

referees...people who are'nt quite good enough to play football...
referees...people who are'nt quite good enough to play football... nervousbumskin420
  • Score: 7

6:42am Fri 3 Jan 14

saint61 says...

nervousbumskin420 wrote:
referees...people who are'nt quite good enough to play football...
Or quite good enough to referee!
[quote][p][bold]nervousbumskin420[/bold] wrote: referees...people who are'nt quite good enough to play football...[/p][/quote]Or quite good enough to referee! saint61
  • Score: 15

7:18am Fri 3 Jan 14

Cpt. Kirk's illegitimate love child says...

The PGMO Ltd will no doubt support their man. I remember when Clattenburg was accused of racial abuse by Chelsea there was an 'investigation' which declared that there wasnt any evidence and Mike Riley came out saying Chelsea should apologise and that Clattenburg should be compensated. No evidence that something was said is not the same as saying it was never said. Mike Riley also said that all match officials' conversations during games would be recorded 'on a private basis' to protect refs from allegations. It will be interesting to hear what excuse Riley comes out with when he tells us there is no recording of Clattenburg saying anything insulting or abusive to Lallana. Defective equipment? Selective hearing more like.
The PGMO Ltd will no doubt support their man. I remember when Clattenburg was accused of racial abuse by Chelsea there was an 'investigation' which declared that there wasnt any evidence and Mike Riley came out saying Chelsea should apologise and that Clattenburg should be compensated. No evidence that something was said is not the same as saying it was never said. Mike Riley also said that all match officials' conversations during games would be recorded 'on a private basis' to protect refs from allegations. It will be interesting to hear what excuse Riley comes out with when he tells us there is no recording of Clattenburg saying anything insulting or abusive to Lallana. Defective equipment? Selective hearing more like. Cpt. Kirk's illegitimate love child
  • Score: 19

7:43am Fri 3 Jan 14

Stroppy_gramps says...

yet again another example of how rugby does it so much better than football - Ref's should be wearing a microphone at all times and EVERYONE should be able to hear what they are saying.

no arguments then about what has or hasn't been said. (and the cynical side of me wonders what effect that would have on the game and player/ref behaviour and decisions)
I'm really interested to see some analysis of Clattenburgs decisions in Saints matches because I am convinced that we don't get the results when he is on the pitch.
yet again another example of how rugby does it so much better than football - Ref's should be wearing a microphone at all times and EVERYONE should be able to hear what they are saying. no arguments then about what has or hasn't been said. (and the cynical side of me wonders what effect that would have on the game and player/ref behaviour and decisions) I'm really interested to see some analysis of Clattenburgs decisions in Saints matches because I am convinced that we don't get the results when he is on the pitch. Stroppy_gramps
  • Score: 29

7:50am Fri 3 Jan 14

Golden_Salamander says...

In the season and a half back in the top flight Saints have had a lot of issues with clueless Clattenburg.

How many remember :-
1/ Fulham home he disallows Saints a 2nd goal when 1-0 up, Sky/BBC both said there was no pushing and "could not understand why it had been disallowed".

2/- Norwich home 1-0 up in the 45th min he gives them a free kick on the edge of the box for a Snodgrass dive from which they score

3/ Norwich away gives 94 min pen when holt fell over in the box, thanks to AB it stays 0-0. Saints players confront clattenburg at final whistle results in £20,000 fine (The only time Saints have been charged by the FA for failing to control their players)..

4/ This season he gives arsenal a pen when Fonte was pulling a shirt, however viewing the incident on Saints player it shows Jos having his shirt being pulled by an arsenal player in exactly the same way. Clattenburg only sees the Fonte pull.

We can now add the Everton game to the list where he turned down that CLEAR HANDBALL.

He Refs every Saints game in a Anti-Saints fashion, I know he comes from the north east but even a poopey supporter would be more neutral than he is.
In the season and a half back in the top flight Saints have had a lot of issues with clueless Clattenburg. How many remember :- 1/ Fulham home he disallows Saints a 2nd goal when 1-0 up, Sky/BBC both said there was no pushing and "could not understand why it had been disallowed". 2/- Norwich home 1-0 up in the 45th min he gives them a free kick on the edge of the box for a Snodgrass dive from which they score 3/ Norwich away gives 94 min pen when holt fell over in the box, thanks to AB it stays 0-0. Saints players confront clattenburg at final whistle results in £20,000 fine (The only time Saints have been charged by the FA for failing to control their players).. 4/ This season he gives arsenal a pen when Fonte was pulling a shirt, however viewing the incident on Saints player it shows Jos having his shirt being pulled by an arsenal player in exactly the same way. Clattenburg only sees the Fonte pull. We can now add the Everton game to the list where he turned down that CLEAR HANDBALL. He Refs every Saints game in a Anti-Saints fashion, I know he comes from the north east but even a poopey supporter would be more neutral than he is. Golden_Salamander
  • Score: 34

8:32am Fri 3 Jan 14

Saintsteve7 says...

I'm not a big fan of Clattenburg but if Adam has given him an earful he should expect one back! In my semi-pro days if I dished it out more often than not I got some in return. We are always complaining that refs are like robots and don't use their common sense yet when they stand up for themselves we bash them for that as well. Can't have it both ways!
I'm not a big fan of Clattenburg but if Adam has given him an earful he should expect one back! In my semi-pro days if I dished it out more often than not I got some in return. We are always complaining that refs are like robots and don't use their common sense yet when they stand up for themselves we bash them for that as well. Can't have it both ways! Saintsteve7
  • Score: -6

8:57am Fri 3 Jan 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

He won't be punished but he will be kept away from us. Brilliant move by the club.
He won't be punished but he will be kept away from us. Brilliant move by the club. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 16

9:06am Fri 3 Jan 14

Santa Retfordia says...

Aye, the wider point here is to send out a message that little old Southampton won't be pushed around by bad refs, not to have Clattenberg punished for this specific incident. It's good darts.
Aye, the wider point here is to send out a message that little old Southampton won't be pushed around by bad refs, not to have Clattenberg punished for this specific incident. It's good darts. Santa Retfordia
  • Score: 12

9:10am Fri 3 Jan 14

Shrewdsaint says...

It was his first time at Everton for 6 years after a very dodgy performance in a Merseyside Derby. Probably too scared to give the blatant handball and booked Adam for his appeal.
It was his first time at Everton for 6 years after a very dodgy performance in a Merseyside Derby. Probably too scared to give the blatant handball and booked Adam for his appeal. Shrewdsaint
  • Score: 12

9:15am Fri 3 Jan 14

Malcombe says...

I Refereed in the 90s in Southampton & Winchester & County Youth in grass roots football and if I was Appointed to ie a lower Junior Division game both Teams were delighted to have a qualified experience Referee because of the shortage of qualified Referees ( and there still is) This Teams would have to select a person from there Clubs and every time that person was happy to hand over to a qualified Referee because they know it's not easy.
Until I became a Referee I had never worn Football Boots and never played Football and I never ever told the Players but I had to learn the Laws of the Game, I never spat, swore or insulted the Players because I wanted there respect and anyway most Players were always bigger than me but my verbal worked 99% of a Games and being a Linesman isn't easy and has to be learnt. .
Now step up to the Premiership and without officials there's isn't a Game, perhaps there are Referees who do not care if he or she doesn't have the respect of Players and referees with an attitude of Don't you know who I am which is asking for trouble, I know the gap of Football I Refereed is vast but I always spoke to the Players and if they asked me why I had given a certain decision I told them that way the Referee gains respect, no Referee is infallible but if he or she is not good at Man Management they should call it a day because Players are not Robots or Morons
I Refereed in the 90s in Southampton & Winchester & County Youth in grass roots football and if I was Appointed to ie a lower Junior Division game both Teams were delighted to have a qualified experience Referee because of the shortage of qualified Referees ( and there still is) This Teams would have to select a person from there Clubs and every time that person was happy to hand over to a qualified Referee because they know it's not easy. Until I became a Referee I had never worn Football Boots and never played Football and I never ever told the Players but I had to learn the Laws of the Game, I never spat, swore or insulted the Players because I wanted there respect and anyway most Players were always bigger than me but my verbal worked 99% of a Games and being a Linesman isn't easy and has to be learnt. . Now step up to the Premiership and without officials there's isn't a Game, perhaps there are Referees who do not care if he or she doesn't have the respect of Players and referees with an attitude of Don't you know who I am which is asking for trouble, I know the gap of Football I Refereed is vast but I always spoke to the Players and if they asked me why I had given a certain decision I told them that way the Referee gains respect, no Referee is infallible but if he or she is not good at Man Management they should call it a day because Players are not Robots or Morons Malcombe
  • Score: 8

9:48am Fri 3 Jan 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Saintsteve7 wrote:
I'm not a big fan of Clattenburg but if Adam has given him an earful he should expect one back! In my semi-pro days if I dished it out more often than not I got some in return. We are always complaining that refs are like robots and don't use their common sense yet when they stand up for themselves we bash them for that as well. Can't have it both ways!
Just a point that he yellow carded Adam for arguing, it is fair to say that in the heat of the moment, Adam forgot he didn't have the armband on and was carrying on as if he was Capatain and debating a bad decision on behalf of his team, that is no excuse for a Referee bad mouthing him back, if that is what has happened. I have never heard Poch react like this before, we have been on the end of a number of dubious decisions, but he has always kept his thoughts in-house before.
[quote][p][bold]Saintsteve7[/bold] wrote: I'm not a big fan of Clattenburg but if Adam has given him an earful he should expect one back! In my semi-pro days if I dished it out more often than not I got some in return. We are always complaining that refs are like robots and don't use their common sense yet when they stand up for themselves we bash them for that as well. Can't have it both ways![/p][/quote]Just a point that he yellow carded Adam for arguing, it is fair to say that in the heat of the moment, Adam forgot he didn't have the armband on and was carrying on as if he was Capatain and debating a bad decision on behalf of his team, that is no excuse for a Referee bad mouthing him back, if that is what has happened. I have never heard Poch react like this before, we have been on the end of a number of dubious decisions, but he has always kept his thoughts in-house before. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 4

9:50am Fri 3 Jan 14

Seedhouse the Unrepentant says...

Malcombe wrote:
I Refereed in the 90s in Southampton & Winchester & County Youth in grass roots football and if I was Appointed to ie a lower Junior Division game both Teams were delighted to have a qualified experience Referee because of the shortage of qualified Referees ( and there still is) This Teams would have to select a person from there Clubs and every time that person was happy to hand over to a qualified Referee because they know it's not easy.
Until I became a Referee I had never worn Football Boots and never played Football and I never ever told the Players but I had to learn the Laws of the Game, I never spat, swore or insulted the Players because I wanted there respect and anyway most Players were always bigger than me but my verbal worked 99% of a Games and being a Linesman isn't easy and has to be learnt. .
Now step up to the Premiership and without officials there's isn't a Game, perhaps there are Referees who do not care if he or she doesn't have the respect of Players and referees with an attitude of Don't you know who I am which is asking for trouble, I know the gap of Football I Refereed is vast but I always spoke to the Players and if they asked me why I had given a certain decision I told them that way the Referee gains respect, no Referee is infallible but if he or she is not good at Man Management they should call it a day because Players are not Robots or Morons
Apart from the odd exceptionally rare incident I don't believe refs are on the take or are deliberate bias.

As an ex ref can you tell us why the stats prove that a vast percentage of the controversial decisions go in favour of the 'big' clubs? If it was simple error or 'I didn't see it' then that would surely even out over a season but it doesn't.
[quote][p][bold]Malcombe[/bold] wrote: I Refereed in the 90s in Southampton & Winchester & County Youth in grass roots football and if I was Appointed to ie a lower Junior Division game both Teams were delighted to have a qualified experience Referee because of the shortage of qualified Referees ( and there still is) This Teams would have to select a person from there Clubs and every time that person was happy to hand over to a qualified Referee because they know it's not easy. Until I became a Referee I had never worn Football Boots and never played Football and I never ever told the Players but I had to learn the Laws of the Game, I never spat, swore or insulted the Players because I wanted there respect and anyway most Players were always bigger than me but my verbal worked 99% of a Games and being a Linesman isn't easy and has to be learnt. . Now step up to the Premiership and without officials there's isn't a Game, perhaps there are Referees who do not care if he or she doesn't have the respect of Players and referees with an attitude of Don't you know who I am which is asking for trouble, I know the gap of Football I Refereed is vast but I always spoke to the Players and if they asked me why I had given a certain decision I told them that way the Referee gains respect, no Referee is infallible but if he or she is not good at Man Management they should call it a day because Players are not Robots or Morons[/p][/quote]Apart from the odd exceptionally rare incident I don't believe refs are on the take or are deliberate bias. As an ex ref can you tell us why the stats prove that a vast percentage of the controversial decisions go in favour of the 'big' clubs? If it was simple error or 'I didn't see it' then that would surely even out over a season but it doesn't. Seedhouse the Unrepentant
  • Score: 6

10:54am Fri 3 Jan 14

andoru says...

Sounds like they have hit upon a good way of keeping your least favourite refs away from your matches for a while. Smart.
Sounds like they have hit upon a good way of keeping your least favourite refs away from your matches for a while. Smart. andoru
  • Score: 3

11:04am Fri 3 Jan 14

Costa Baz says...

Certainly puts a different slant on the penalty not being awarded, knowing that he was, in all probability, trying to appease the home fans for his last poor performance there.
As already stated, since the Chelsea incident, referee comments are supposed to be recorded for self protection.
If this clears Clusterfcuk, then I am sure Saints, and possibly the media, will receive a copy.
If a copy of the recording isn't released, then it will speak volumes, and I can see NC pursuing it through legal channels.
Certainly puts a different slant on the penalty not being awarded, knowing that he was, in all probability, trying to appease the home fans for his last poor performance there. As already stated, since the Chelsea incident, referee comments are supposed to be recorded for self protection. If this clears Clusterfcuk, then I am sure Saints, and possibly the media, will receive a copy. If a copy of the recording isn't released, then it will speak volumes, and I can see NC pursuing it through legal channels. Costa Baz
  • Score: 6

11:05am Fri 3 Jan 14

SFCOLDBOY says...

When we were in Div 1,at times I really wished to see the better quality refs in the Championship.
Then disappointed with their quality, on our promotion, wanted to see the refs of the Prem
Frankly there aint no improvement if any thing I think generally the Prem refs tend to be prima donnas, centre of attention.
That said,there is still one ref that I was incredibly impressed with.
He officiated at our JPT win at Wembly,non pretentious just allowed the game to run, to the benefit of the players of both sides and allowed the crowd to enjoy the day out.
Pity he has not been able to take games from the Prem,I think he would be brilliant,or is it he doesn't want too?
COYS
When we were in Div 1,at times I really wished to see the better quality refs in the Championship. Then disappointed with their quality, on our promotion, wanted to see the refs of the Prem Frankly there aint no improvement if any thing I think generally the Prem refs tend to be prima donnas, centre of attention. That said,there is still one ref that I was incredibly impressed with. He officiated at our JPT win at Wembly,non pretentious just allowed the game to run, to the benefit of the players of both sides and allowed the crowd to enjoy the day out. Pity he has not been able to take games from the Prem,I think he would be brilliant,or is it he doesn't want too? COYS SFCOLDBOY
  • Score: 1

11:07am Fri 3 Jan 14

torbay george says...

There is a video clip of the incident involving Alcarez at Everton. The clip not only shows the player clearly hand-balling but also shows the player taking an unusually long stride to put his foot over the penalty box marking line to avoid giving away a penalty. Both the un-natuarliy raised hand and the deliberate long stride showed intent to cheat. Lallana would have seen this and so should have the referee. If any of us was put into that position would many of us not be incensed?
There is a video clip of the incident involving Alcarez at Everton. The clip not only shows the player clearly hand-balling but also shows the player taking an unusually long stride to put his foot over the penalty box marking line to avoid giving away a penalty. Both the un-natuarliy raised hand and the deliberate long stride showed intent to cheat. Lallana would have seen this and so should have the referee. If any of us was put into that position would many of us not be incensed? torbay george
  • Score: 12

11:32am Fri 3 Jan 14

Clever Dick says...

I also think this is a smart move by the club to keep this idiot away from our games for the foreseeable future. NC has a history of being ahead of the game and it seems that it's not just the fans who think we have been cheated out of a lot of points by this self important prima donna. He clearly doesn't like us and it shows.
I also think this is a smart move by the club to keep this idiot away from our games for the foreseeable future. NC has a history of being ahead of the game and it seems that it's not just the fans who think we have been cheated out of a lot of points by this self important prima donna. He clearly doesn't like us and it shows. Clever Dick
  • Score: 0

11:33am Fri 3 Jan 14

BracknellSaint says...

It wasn't just the pen though-the two footed lunge by Oviedo was one that might easily have been red. On the other hand, i don't like to see red cards dished out too easily, and in days gone by a yellow might not even have been brandished, but what I do want is consistency.
We've had ridiculuous handballs against us( Fox at Newcastle ?) so it has to be the same for all. Same with shirt pulling-I agree, if someone is doing it, like Fonte was , it's a pen. But, the flipside is that it should ALWAYS be a pen, or indeed the other way round, a foul, much as Jos was being pulled all over at exactly the same time.
Oh, and while I'm moaning, I wish a ref would at least once give obstruction when the defender is allowing the ball to go out for goal kick. Can never understand how it's not a intentional block when the defender jumps into the attacker, and spins round to push the striker off the ball, just to let it run out. Been an absolute pet hate of mine for years that....
It wasn't just the pen though-the two footed lunge by Oviedo was one that might easily have been red. On the other hand, i don't like to see red cards dished out too easily, and in days gone by a yellow might not even have been brandished, but what I do want is consistency. We've had ridiculuous handballs against us( Fox at Newcastle ?) so it has to be the same for all. Same with shirt pulling-I agree, if someone is doing it, like Fonte was , it's a pen. But, the flipside is that it should ALWAYS be a pen, or indeed the other way round, a foul, much as Jos was being pulled all over at exactly the same time. Oh, and while I'm moaning, I wish a ref would at least once give obstruction when the defender is allowing the ball to go out for goal kick. Can never understand how it's not a intentional block when the defender jumps into the attacker, and spins round to push the striker off the ball, just to let it run out. Been an absolute pet hate of mine for years that.... BracknellSaint
  • Score: 6

11:42am Fri 3 Jan 14

Mush On The Beach says...

I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week? Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 3

11:51am Fri 3 Jan 14

Confucious says...

Disgraceful behaviour by Clattenburg using insulting and abusive language to Adam. That's not what football is about at all and no wonder our fans are rightly critical of him..

In all my years, for example, I can't remember the Northam throng ever uttering an insulting or abusive word at a ref - despite considerable provocation. Indeed, even in the most heated of situations, the entire stand has maintained the polite and gentlemanly standards that we have all grown to love and respect.
Disgraceful behaviour by Clattenburg using insulting and abusive language to Adam. That's not what football is about at all and no wonder our fans are rightly critical of him.. In all my years, for example, I can't remember the Northam throng ever uttering an insulting or abusive word at a ref - despite considerable provocation. Indeed, even in the most heated of situations, the entire stand has maintained the polite and gentlemanly standards that we have all grown to love and respect. Confucious
  • Score: 3

11:57am Fri 3 Jan 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

BracknellSaint wrote:
It wasn't just the pen though-the two footed lunge by Oviedo was one that might easily have been red. On the other hand, i don't like to see red cards dished out too easily, and in days gone by a yellow might not even have been brandished, but what I do want is consistency.
We've had ridiculuous handballs against us( Fox at Newcastle ?) so it has to be the same for all. Same with shirt pulling-I agree, if someone is doing it, like Fonte was , it's a pen. But, the flipside is that it should ALWAYS be a pen, or indeed the other way round, a foul, much as Jos was being pulled all over at exactly the same time.
Oh, and while I'm moaning, I wish a ref would at least once give obstruction when the defender is allowing the ball to go out for goal kick. Can never understand how it's not a intentional block when the defender jumps into the attacker, and spins round to push the striker off the ball, just to let it run out. Been an absolute pet hate of mine for years that....
Nods, nods, and nods again, Bracknell.

Don't get me started on the obstruction thing.

As for refs, in general, I can't remember from one match to the next which ref was in charge. For example, who refereed the match against Sunderland? He was dreadful and so were his linos.

Are they better than in the Championship and League 1? No, I don't think so. However, that one we had when we hammered Brighton 3-0 (and his linos) really takes some beating for dreadfulness. Didn't give a hatful of clear pens, then awarded us a pen for a foul two yards outside the box.

Regarding Clutts, I agree with those who think this is a clever move by NC/MP to ensure we don't have him refereeing our matches in the near future.

Finally, a little in Clutt's defence, regarding that penalty at Norwich in the 94th minute, he had earlier failed to spot Luke's tug on Holt, so he doesn't always give things against us, he's just incompetent on a regular basis.
[quote][p][bold]BracknellSaint[/bold] wrote: It wasn't just the pen though-the two footed lunge by Oviedo was one that might easily have been red. On the other hand, i don't like to see red cards dished out too easily, and in days gone by a yellow might not even have been brandished, but what I do want is consistency. We've had ridiculuous handballs against us( Fox at Newcastle ?) so it has to be the same for all. Same with shirt pulling-I agree, if someone is doing it, like Fonte was , it's a pen. But, the flipside is that it should ALWAYS be a pen, or indeed the other way round, a foul, much as Jos was being pulled all over at exactly the same time. Oh, and while I'm moaning, I wish a ref would at least once give obstruction when the defender is allowing the ball to go out for goal kick. Can never understand how it's not a intentional block when the defender jumps into the attacker, and spins round to push the striker off the ball, just to let it run out. Been an absolute pet hate of mine for years that....[/p][/quote]Nods, nods, and nods again, Bracknell. Don't get me started on the obstruction thing. As for refs, in general, I can't remember from one match to the next which ref was in charge. For example, who refereed the match against Sunderland? He was dreadful and so were his linos. Are they better than in the Championship and League 1? No, I don't think so. However, that one we had when we hammered Brighton 3-0 (and his linos) really takes some beating for dreadfulness. Didn't give a hatful of clear pens, then awarded us a pen for a foul two yards outside the box. Regarding Clutts, I agree with those who think this is a clever move by NC/MP to ensure we don't have him refereeing our matches in the near future. Finally, a little in Clutt's defence, regarding that penalty at Norwich in the 94th minute, he had earlier failed to spot Luke's tug on Holt, so he doesn't always give things against us, he's just incompetent on a regular basis. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 1

11:59am Fri 3 Jan 14

Clever Dick says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way. Clever Dick
  • Score: 0

12:04pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Norwegian Saint says...

I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again.

I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October

Dear FA
It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response.
Mr H

Dear Mr H,
Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
Best wishes, FA

Dear Football Association.
I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response.
Mr H

Dear Mr H,
We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident.
Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 . The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video.

Dear FA
Thank you for your response.
On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"?

On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions.
Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd
Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker.
Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th
Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing.
Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions.
We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above.
Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014
Mr H

Dear Mr H,
Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts.
There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season.
The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c
om
We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments
.....
.....
.....
They change the rules for different people, teams etc
I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again. I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October Dear FA It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Best wishes, FA Dear Football Association. I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident. Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 [serious foul play, violent conduct, spitting at an opponent or any other person, offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures]. The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video. Dear FA Thank you for your response. On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"? On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions. Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker. Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing. Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions. We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above. Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014 Mr H Dear Mr H, Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season. The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c om We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments ..... ..... ..... They change the rules for different people, teams etc Norwegian Saint
  • Score: 5

12:11pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
...... Or England cricketers, who are not quite good enough to play for you Aussies :-)
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]...... Or England cricketers, who are not quite good enough to play for you Aussies :-) Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: -1

12:33pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Licky_Rambert says...

Norwegian Saint wrote:
I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again. I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October Dear FA It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Best wishes, FA Dear Football Association. I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident. Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 . The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video. Dear FA Thank you for your response. On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"? On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions. Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker. Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing. Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions. We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above. Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014 Mr H Dear Mr H, Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season. The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c om We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments ..... ..... ..... They change the rules for different people, teams etc
haha! this is really funny
[quote][p][bold]Norwegian Saint[/bold] wrote: I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again. I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October Dear FA It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Best wishes, FA Dear Football Association. I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident. Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 [serious foul play, violent conduct, spitting at an opponent or any other person, offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures]. The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video. Dear FA Thank you for your response. On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"? On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions. Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker. Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing. Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions. We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above. Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014 Mr H Dear Mr H, Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season. The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c om We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments ..... ..... ..... They change the rules for different people, teams etc[/p][/quote]haha! this is really funny Licky_Rambert
  • Score: 2

12:39pm Fri 3 Jan 14

el caballo santos101 says...

well this is an interesting development to our recent run ins with the ref who shouldn't be named. refs get and take all sorts of abuse from players, managers and fans all of the time, however if lalla didn't use abusive or insulting language when he argued that the pen, that everyone else could see apart from the ref, should have been awarded then that `ref` should not use that language towards lalla.

if it can be proven that lalla was insulted and abused then the `ref` should e dropped from the prem, banned for 10 games and fined 2 weeks wages, the same punishment that a player would receive if the tables were turned.
the problem is that refs are so highly protected by the FA and prem that almost anytime someone in the game questions their performance or decisions they are put on a charge and fined.

why cant refs come out after a game and discuss the game and the decisions they gave or didn't give. it doesn't have to be a media brawl, just 1 reporter asking the questions we would all like answered. we still don't know why the handball wasn't awarded.

refs cant get everything right, but when one ref consistently gives bad/wrong decisions against a certain team they need to be investigated.
refs do need help during a game, not through technology though but `linesmen` need to play a bigger part. why didn't the linesman award the pen to us against everton? why didn't the linesman tell the ref to send to off for his awful tackle at the start of the Liverpool game? they both must have seen it, they were both looking straight at them.

do we need to start having 4 linesmen for a game? not like uefa want with a lino next to the goal, but 1 each side of the halfway line on both sides. that way either could flag for off side, penalties, free kicks etc. and you not asking a lino to give decisions 50 yards away from the halfway line.
well this is an interesting development to our recent run ins with the ref who shouldn't be named. refs get and take all sorts of abuse from players, managers and fans all of the time, however if lalla didn't use abusive or insulting language when he argued that the pen, that everyone else could see apart from the ref, should have been awarded then that `ref` should not use that language towards lalla. if it can be proven that lalla was insulted and abused then the `ref` should e dropped from the prem, banned for 10 games and fined 2 weeks wages, the same punishment that a player would receive if the tables were turned. the problem is that refs are so highly protected by the FA and prem that almost anytime someone in the game questions their performance or decisions they are put on a charge and fined. why cant refs come out after a game and discuss the game and the decisions they gave or didn't give. it doesn't have to be a media brawl, just 1 reporter asking the questions we would all like answered. we still don't know why the handball wasn't awarded. refs cant get everything right, but when one ref consistently gives bad/wrong decisions against a certain team they need to be investigated. refs do need help during a game, not through technology though but `linesmen` need to play a bigger part. why didn't the linesman award the pen to us against everton? why didn't the linesman tell the ref to send to off for his awful tackle at the start of the Liverpool game? they both must have seen it, they were both looking straight at them. do we need to start having 4 linesmen for a game? not like uefa want with a lino next to the goal, but 1 each side of the halfway line on both sides. that way either could flag for off side, penalties, free kicks etc. and you not asking a lino to give decisions 50 yards away from the halfway line. el caballo santos101
  • Score: 1

1:00pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Mush On The Beach says...

Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
[quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot. Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 2

1:04pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Mush On The Beach says...

Licky_Rambert wrote:
Norwegian Saint wrote:
I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again. I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October Dear FA It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Best wishes, FA Dear Football Association. I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident. Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 . The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video. Dear FA Thank you for your response. On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"? On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions. Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker. Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing. Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions. We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above. Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014 Mr H Dear Mr H, Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season. The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c om We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments ..... ..... ..... They change the rules for different people, teams etc
haha! this is really funny
You are a Naughty Norge but I love your enthusiasm.
In the words of Dick Emery ... Oh Norge you are awful but I like you.
Maybe you should be the campaign manager for Seedhouse to keep Itchen a Socialist Labour stronghold, you have my vote.
[quote][p][bold]Licky_Rambert[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Norwegian Saint[/bold] wrote: I said it before the Everton game and I will say it again... this man is, in my opinion, corrupt. One day it will come out. He should not referee again. I have been in contact with the FA regarding decisions against our club. here is the letters sent..... beginning with the Fulham player punching Lovren twice back in October Dear FA It has been noted that a Fulham player (Amorebieta) punched a Southampton player (Lovren) during the match on 26/10/13. Could you tell me if any action will be taken? Although it may be funny where he punched him it is still a punch aimed at a player and sets a bad example. I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Our ‘on-field’ regulatory team monitor all participants within the game relating to their actions. If something is brought or comes to our attention that we feel contravenes these regulations, then it will be further investigated. On this occasion it was not deemed that Mr Amorebieta’s actions sufficiently breached our threshold to investigate or charge. Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Best wishes, FA Dear Football Association. I must say, I do find your reply strange regarding the incident. Is a punch not a dangerous act in a game of football? What if the Fulham man had punched him a little higher and damaged the Southampton players back? As the referee took no action it should be accepted that a decision on this violent behavior should result in a warning at the very least. So, can we now say a person on the field of play is allowed to punch another player as long as he is not hurt? Could you tell me where a punch is acceptable in the beautiful game? You believe a blatant punch does not contravene the regulations? As I mentioned in my previous email, most people would see this as funny but the Fulham player lost control and served a violent act on another professional. What would have happened if it was (for example) Suarez from Liverpool who hit out? I look forward to your response. Mr H Dear Mr H, We would of course, not condone any form of violent behaviour on the pitch. The reason no further action could be taken was due to the fact that the referee saw the incident. Where the match officials have seen an incident it is considered to have been ‘refereed’ and therefore no retrospective action can be taken except for a case of exceptional circumstance. As a result, there is no requirement to review the incident, again, unless it is an exceptional incident. The FA is only able to take any retrospective action on incidents not seen by the Match Officials which occur on the field of play and fall within Law 12 [serious foul play, violent conduct, spitting at an opponent or any other person, offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures]. The FA may charge a player for committing an offence on the field of play within Law 12, not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video. Dear FA Thank you for your response. On the answer given by yourself on behalf of the FA, would that not make a gross mistake by the official? Surely taking no action (if he saw it, which I don't believe he did) is worse than giving the perpetrator a free reign to contact another player with his fist (twice) in the future? Isn't a punch, or in this case two punches, not "exceptional behaviour"? On another note, I would like to ask for an explanation on two refereeing decisions. Arsenal V Southampton Saturday November 23rd Mr Clattenburg gives a penalty for a "slight" pull on a shirt in the penalty box by Southamptons Fonte on Mertesaker. Manchester City and Liverpool Thursday December 26th Mr Mason is clearly seeing Kompany being grabbed, pushed and pulled by Liverpools Skrtal (on more than one occasion) but gives nothing. Could you please look at these incidents and answer the reasoning between these two very contrasting decisions. We all want fairness in the beautiful game, pulling and pushing in the area seems to be part of matches nowadays... but we also want consistency. Why can't poor refereeing be punished? Either Mr Clattenburg or Mr Mason have made a gross error of judgement. I have refereed at a top level and know how difficult it can be but somewhere it must be in the FA ruling when an offence has or has not occured like the evidence above. Christmas wishes and regards for a trouble free (and honest) 2014 Mr H Dear Mr H, Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts. There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season. The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.c om We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments ..... ..... ..... They change the rules for different people, teams etc[/p][/quote]haha! this is really funny[/p][/quote]You are a Naughty Norge but I love your enthusiasm. In the words of Dick Emery ... Oh Norge you are awful but I like you. Maybe you should be the campaign manager for Seedhouse to keep Itchen a Socialist Labour stronghold, you have my vote. Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 4

1:31pm Fri 3 Jan 14

worried of n e hampshire says...

did anyone watch the Hibbs Hearts game last night?
I know carp game but the ref was my man of the match.
did anyone watch the Hibbs Hearts game last night? I know carp game but the ref was my man of the match. worried of n e hampshire
  • Score: 1

2:19pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Crodney says...

2/- Norwich home 1-0 up in the 45th min he gives them a free kick on the edge of the box for a Snodgrass dive from which they score

I was sitting directly in line with the tackle resulting in the free kick. It was never a foul - Clyne blocked the ball and Snodgrass went over. During the match I commented to my son that we were not getting any of the 50/50 decisions. Later a section of the home crowd were chanting "You're a s**t referee". It was noticeable that, suddenly, for the last 20 minutes or so of the match Saints got nearly all the 50/50 decisions!! Very poor refereeing - Clattenburg's first match after the Mikel incident!

I've watched him in matches where I am a neutral and am less than impressed. I just hope reporting this incident doesn't have a detrimental effect on other refs decisions - that said it is right to raise it. If the FA/Premier League are as fair as usual - we will lose!
2/- Norwich home 1-0 up in the 45th min he gives them a free kick on the edge of the box for a Snodgrass dive from which they score I was sitting directly in line with the tackle resulting in the free kick. It was never a foul - Clyne blocked the ball and Snodgrass went over. During the match I commented to my son that we were not getting any of the 50/50 decisions. Later a section of the home crowd were chanting "You're a s**t referee". It was noticeable that, suddenly, for the last 20 minutes or so of the match Saints got nearly all the 50/50 decisions!! Very poor refereeing - Clattenburg's first match after the Mikel incident! I've watched him in matches where I am a neutral and am less than impressed. I just hope reporting this incident doesn't have a detrimental effect on other refs decisions - that said it is right to raise it. If the FA/Premier League are as fair as usual - we will lose! Crodney
  • Score: 0

2:22pm Fri 3 Jan 14

BracknellSaint says...

el caballo santos101 wrote:
well this is an interesting development to our recent run ins with the ref who shouldn't be named. refs get and take all sorts of abuse from players, managers and fans all of the time, however if lalla didn't use abusive or insulting language when he argued that the pen, that everyone else could see apart from the ref, should have been awarded then that `ref` should not use that language towards lalla.

if it can be proven that lalla was insulted and abused then the `ref` should e dropped from the prem, banned for 10 games and fined 2 weeks wages, the same punishment that a player would receive if the tables were turned.
the problem is that refs are so highly protected by the FA and prem that almost anytime someone in the game questions their performance or decisions they are put on a charge and fined.

why cant refs come out after a game and discuss the game and the decisions they gave or didn't give. it doesn't have to be a media brawl, just 1 reporter asking the questions we would all like answered. we still don't know why the handball wasn't awarded.

refs cant get everything right, but when one ref consistently gives bad/wrong decisions against a certain team they need to be investigated.
refs do need help during a game, not through technology though but `linesmen` need to play a bigger part. why didn't the linesman award the pen to us against everton? why didn't the linesman tell the ref to send to off for his awful tackle at the start of the Liverpool game? they both must have seen it, they were both looking straight at them.

do we need to start having 4 linesmen for a game? not like uefa want with a lino next to the goal, but 1 each side of the halfway line on both sides. that way either could flag for off side, penalties, free kicks etc. and you not asking a lino to give decisions 50 yards away from the halfway line.
Couldn't agree more. Seems odd in elite sport, that you are asking a lino in some cases to decide which way a throw-in, or goal-kick/corner should go from the halfway line, as he can't follow the play?
It's not like giving a pen, or offside, but can still lead to a goal, which is very frustrating if it was the wrong call originally.
[quote][p][bold]el caballo santos101[/bold] wrote: well this is an interesting development to our recent run ins with the ref who shouldn't be named. refs get and take all sorts of abuse from players, managers and fans all of the time, however if lalla didn't use abusive or insulting language when he argued that the pen, that everyone else could see apart from the ref, should have been awarded then that `ref` should not use that language towards lalla. if it can be proven that lalla was insulted and abused then the `ref` should e dropped from the prem, banned for 10 games and fined 2 weeks wages, the same punishment that a player would receive if the tables were turned. the problem is that refs are so highly protected by the FA and prem that almost anytime someone in the game questions their performance or decisions they are put on a charge and fined. why cant refs come out after a game and discuss the game and the decisions they gave or didn't give. it doesn't have to be a media brawl, just 1 reporter asking the questions we would all like answered. we still don't know why the handball wasn't awarded. refs cant get everything right, but when one ref consistently gives bad/wrong decisions against a certain team they need to be investigated. refs do need help during a game, not through technology though but `linesmen` need to play a bigger part. why didn't the linesman award the pen to us against everton? why didn't the linesman tell the ref to send to off for his awful tackle at the start of the Liverpool game? they both must have seen it, they were both looking straight at them. do we need to start having 4 linesmen for a game? not like uefa want with a lino next to the goal, but 1 each side of the halfway line on both sides. that way either could flag for off side, penalties, free kicks etc. and you not asking a lino to give decisions 50 yards away from the halfway line.[/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more. Seems odd in elite sport, that you are asking a lino in some cases to decide which way a throw-in, or goal-kick/corner should go from the halfway line, as he can't follow the play? It's not like giving a pen, or offside, but can still lead to a goal, which is very frustrating if it was the wrong call originally. BracknellSaint
  • Score: -1

2:24pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Churchill Saint says...

There are 2 categories of refs; those who communicate and consult with players in an adult way (e.g. Howard Webb) and the little Hitler types who like to be centre of attention. The picture on this story with Clattenburg pointing his finger at Lallana clearly shows which category he is in.
There are 2 categories of refs; those who communicate and consult with players in an adult way (e.g. Howard Webb) and the little Hitler types who like to be centre of attention. The picture on this story with Clattenburg pointing his finger at Lallana clearly shows which category he is in. Churchill Saint
  • Score: 1

2:29pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Crodney says...

On the hand ball issue - I was put on to a referee forum some of you may find of interest - http://s8.zetaboards
.com/ratetheref/foru
m/2716/4/
A few weeks ago when a ref failed to give what appeared to be a clear penalty for hand ball, someone posted that Select Group refs have been told not to give so many penalties when the ball strikes the hand unless obvious! I can't now recall when that was posted and can't find the entry - but it surprised me that this should have been raised. Surely it must be for the referee to decide if the defending player was seeking to make himself bigger by extending his arms. The incident on Sunday was, for me, clear cut - pen every day! As was the incident at Norwich earlier when Howard Webb refused a pen. I ask myself - what did the referee see to give (not not give) that decision. If they didn't see it their observation is at fault. If they did see it, their decision making is at fault.
On the hand ball issue - I was put on to a referee forum some of you may find of interest - http://s8.zetaboards .com/ratetheref/foru m/2716/4/ A few weeks ago when a ref failed to give what appeared to be a clear penalty for hand ball, someone posted that Select Group refs have been told not to give so many penalties when the ball strikes the hand unless obvious! I can't now recall when that was posted and can't find the entry - but it surprised me that this should have been raised. Surely it must be for the referee to decide if the defending player was seeking to make himself bigger by extending his arms. The incident on Sunday was, for me, clear cut - pen every day! As was the incident at Norwich earlier when Howard Webb refused a pen. I ask myself - what did the referee see to give (not not give) that decision. If they didn't see it their observation is at fault. If they did see it, their decision making is at fault. Crodney
  • Score: 3

2:33pm Fri 3 Jan 14

florida saint says...

oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s.
oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s. florida saint
  • Score: 2

2:51pm Fri 3 Jan 14

el caballo santos101 says...

surprise surprise, just announced that the `ref` who should not be named , has NO case to answer. no explanation given. have they done an investigation? if so when, who and what evidence has been given? have they spoken to lalla? MP? NC?
or is it another cover up?
surprise surprise, just announced that the `ref` who should not be named , has NO case to answer. no explanation given. have they done an investigation? if so when, who and what evidence has been given? have they spoken to lalla? MP? NC? or is it another cover up? el caballo santos101
  • Score: -1

3:00pm Fri 3 Jan 14

JohnItaly says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties. JohnItaly
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Beer Monster says...

worried of n e hampshire wrote:
did anyone watch the Hibbs Hearts game last night?
I know carp game but the ref was my man of the match.
Had I still been living in Edinburgh or the kick off had been somewhat earlier then I'd have gone along to that, but given a combination of it being a bank holiday up here and me living just outside Kilmarnock meant I watched it down the pub instead.

Agreed - we do seem to get some pretty good refs north of the border, if maybe not the decent football.
[quote][p][bold]worried of n e hampshire[/bold] wrote: did anyone watch the Hibbs Hearts game last night? I know carp game but the ref was my man of the match.[/p][/quote]Had I still been living in Edinburgh or the kick off had been somewhat earlier then I'd have gone along to that, but given a combination of it being a bank holiday up here and me living just outside Kilmarnock meant I watched it down the pub instead. Agreed - we do seem to get some pretty good refs north of the border, if maybe not the decent football. Beer Monster
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Strasbourg Saint says...

Crodney wrote:
On the hand ball issue - I was put on to a referee forum some of you may find of interest - http://s8.zetaboards

.com/ratetheref/foru

m/2716/4/
A few weeks ago when a ref failed to give what appeared to be a clear penalty for hand ball, someone posted that Select Group refs have been told not to give so many penalties when the ball strikes the hand unless obvious! I can't now recall when that was posted and can't find the entry - but it surprised me that this should have been raised. Surely it must be for the referee to decide if the defending player was seeking to make himself bigger by extending his arms. The incident on Sunday was, for me, clear cut - pen every day! As was the incident at Norwich earlier when Howard Webb refused a pen. I ask myself - what did the referee see to give (not not give) that decision. If they didn't see it their observation is at fault. If they did see it, their decision making is at fault.
Interesting, and your last 2 sentences are logical and spot on. Thanks for the info.
[quote][p][bold]Crodney[/bold] wrote: On the hand ball issue - I was put on to a referee forum some of you may find of interest - http://s8.zetaboards .com/ratetheref/foru m/2716/4/ A few weeks ago when a ref failed to give what appeared to be a clear penalty for hand ball, someone posted that Select Group refs have been told not to give so many penalties when the ball strikes the hand unless obvious! I can't now recall when that was posted and can't find the entry - but it surprised me that this should have been raised. Surely it must be for the referee to decide if the defending player was seeking to make himself bigger by extending his arms. The incident on Sunday was, for me, clear cut - pen every day! As was the incident at Norwich earlier when Howard Webb refused a pen. I ask myself - what did the referee see to give (not not give) that decision. If they didn't see it their observation is at fault. If they did see it, their decision making is at fault.[/p][/quote]Interesting, and your last 2 sentences are logical and spot on. Thanks for the info. Strasbourg Saint
  • Score: 0

3:39pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Mush On The Beach says...

JohnItaly wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
Football is a game of emotions and artistry that celebrates the primeval good in human gatherings.
Answer to question 1 ... see above.
Answer to question 2 ... In South American football I believe the refs have a magic marker they spray to mark the line for the wall, it disappears soon after the free kick .... Sorted.
[quote][p][bold]JohnItaly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.[/p][/quote]Football is a game of emotions and artistry that celebrates the primeval good in human gatherings. Answer to question 1 ... see above. Answer to question 2 ... In South American football I believe the refs have a magic marker they spray to mark the line for the wall, it disappears soon after the free kick .... Sorted. Mush On The Beach
  • Score: 0

3:39pm Fri 3 Jan 14

FindAndDestroy says...

SaintinCanada wrote:
He is in an elite group. His fraternity will ultimately back him. The noise will eventually subside and he will remain upright and on his feet to continue.
You were right!!!!!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]SaintinCanada[/bold] wrote: He is in an elite group. His fraternity will ultimately back him. The noise will eventually subside and he will remain upright and on his feet to continue.[/p][/quote]You were right!!!!!!!!! FindAndDestroy
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Malcombe says...

To Seedhouse the Unrepentant

I cannot answer much of your questions but I gave an opinion 2/3 weeks ago in this paper that if a Referee comes from the area of a Premier League Club he or she would never Referee in the area.
All Referees act similar to a Judge in Court in that they must be totally impartial, if any bias was apparent and appeared to be in favour of a Club the Referee would be struck off the list and banned for life as to taking a bribe well that speaks for itself.
I and I am sure many others know not many people want to be a Football Referee and there is a big shortage of recruitments as it was when I Refereed in the 90s but I enjoyed my 9 years. Sometimes it appears a Referee bottles a decision and I admit I have noticed incidents but I give credit that the Referee doesn't have eyes all over his body and doesn't see everything.

Every Referee in all the Football League the Conference and many more Leagues in Britain are Assessed on every game with marks out of 10 and comments and if he or she is given a 6 the Referee would consider that mark good that's how tough Referees are scrutinised, also lets not forget that many Players can influence a game in this very fast physical game and a Referee can be tricked by the crafty antics of a Player, Thursdays game at St Marys is an example where the Referee Martin Atkinson wasn't conned by a Chelsea Player and deserved credit for the correct decision.
When we watch League and International games some Players are notorious for cheating by diving and it's horrible, a Manchester United and England Player has tried and at times succeeded in getting a Penalty but look what reputation he's getting even Moyes has warned him.It's never easy to be a Referee and if I had been young when I qualified and got up to the top if the crowd had a go at me I would of put 2 fingers up from both hands and walked off the pitch, that would of silenced the b_ggers either that or I'd be chased down the Tunnel ( that's my joke for the week)
COYR
To Seedhouse the Unrepentant I cannot answer much of your questions but I gave an opinion 2/3 weeks ago in this paper that if a Referee comes from the area of a Premier League Club he or she would never Referee in the area. All Referees act similar to a Judge in Court in that they must be totally impartial, if any bias was apparent and appeared to be in favour of a Club the Referee would be struck off the list and banned for life as to taking a bribe well that speaks for itself. I and I am sure many others know not many people want to be a Football Referee and there is a big shortage of recruitments as it was when I Refereed in the 90s but I enjoyed my 9 years. Sometimes it appears a Referee bottles a decision and I admit I have noticed incidents but I give credit that the Referee doesn't have eyes all over his body and doesn't see everything. Every Referee in all the Football League the Conference and many more Leagues in Britain are Assessed on every game with marks out of 10 and comments and if he or she is given a 6 the Referee would consider that mark good that's how tough Referees are scrutinised, also lets not forget that many Players can influence a game in this very fast physical game and a Referee can be tricked by the crafty antics of a Player, Thursdays game at St Marys is an example where the Referee Martin Atkinson wasn't conned by a Chelsea Player and deserved credit for the correct decision. When we watch League and International games some Players are notorious for cheating by diving and it's horrible, a Manchester United and England Player has tried and at times succeeded in getting a Penalty but look what reputation he's getting even Moyes has warned him.It's never easy to be a Referee and if I had been young when I qualified and got up to the top if the crowd had a go at me I would of put 2 fingers up from both hands and walked off the pitch, that would of silenced the b_ggers either that or I'd be chased down the Tunnel ( that's my joke for the week) COYR Malcombe
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Fri 3 Jan 14

JohnItaly says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
JohnItaly wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
Football is a game of emotions and artistry that celebrates the primeval good in human gatherings.
Answer to question 1 ... see above.
Answer to question 2 ... In South American football I believe the refs have a magic marker they spray to mark the line for the wall, it disappears soon after the free kick .... Sorted.
So is rugby but you don't see players rushing off to their supporters sliding on their knees whilst removing their shirts.
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JohnItaly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.[/p][/quote]Football is a game of emotions and artistry that celebrates the primeval good in human gatherings. Answer to question 1 ... see above. Answer to question 2 ... In South American football I believe the refs have a magic marker they spray to mark the line for the wall, it disappears soon after the free kick .... Sorted.[/p][/quote]So is rugby but you don't see players rushing off to their supporters sliding on their knees whilst removing their shirts. JohnItaly
  • Score: 0

4:07pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Clever Dick says...

JohnItaly wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
In addition to this any contentious issues generally result in the ref being surrounded and time being wasted and the game held up anyway. When do Chelsea ever have a game when the likes of Terry/Cole etc etc don't seek to gain an advantage like this.
[quote][p][bold]JohnItaly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.[/p][/quote]In addition to this any contentious issues generally result in the ref being surrounded and time being wasted and the game held up anyway. When do Chelsea ever have a game when the likes of Terry/Cole etc etc don't seek to gain an advantage like this. Clever Dick
  • Score: 0

4:13pm Fri 3 Jan 14

el caballo santos101 says...

JohnItaly wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
football is a free flowing game, it is interesting that you chose 2 natural stoppages in the game to try to say otherwise.
childish goal celebrations? going over to your fans to celebrate? hugging teams mates? yes there have been a few silly celebrations but most are fine with me. the one that are a bit silly often see the ref stopping his watch, this then doesn't waste game time refs also book players or some celebrations, gaston got booked for taking his shirt off.
as for free kicks, there is noting to stop an attacking team from taking the free kick quickly. if a defender is not ten yards away and stops or gets hit by the ball he is liable to be booked. for free kicks in dangerous areas the attacking team often want to take a direct shot on goal with a specialist taker. the ref normally asks if they want the wall back ten yards and if so he informs he attacking team not to take the kick until he blows the whistle, you will see him hold the whistle up to make the point. time is then stopped to allow the ref to get the defence back the ten yards and then starts again when he blows the whistle.
advancing free kicks forwards ten yards is often worse for the attacking team as its harder to take a free kick on the edge of the box than ten yards out. advancing free kicks was tried before to penalise defenders who argued with refs too much. it didn't work because of the adverse affect it had on the attacking team.
you cannot advance an indirect free kick into the penalty area and award a penalty, as you can have indirect free kicks in the penalty area. they are not the same thing.
to stop any argument over teams being ten yards away the refs should be given spray chalk, he paces ten yards sprays a line, which wears away quickly, and any defender who goes over the line gets booked, simple. I think I heard they do that in aussie rules, mush will know.
technology would ruin football if its introduced, stopping the game all the time for often no reason. as is often said, what happens if team `a` thinks they should have been awarded a penalty but the ball doesn't go out of play and team `b` goes on a break and scores? do you stop the game at the time of the penalty decision or after the goal? when there is a natural break in play. what do you do if the penalty is awarded? do you give the penalty and disallow the goal? or give the penalty and also the goal?
technology isn't the answer, I watch a lot of American football and back in the 80`s video replays were used after nearly `play` making the game even longer than it is now, it got so bad that the rules were changed and replays are limited to 2/3 per side per half. if they lose a replay they lose a timeout, which are very valuable in American football. even now with all the replay angles and cameras they have to use the still get decisions wrong and can only overturn a decision if there is absolute proof the original decision was wrong. these replays can take several minutes for the umpire to make a decision, can you see that in football? the fans don't see the replays the umpire uses until after so what will football fans do in the meantime? its also an excuse for tv companies to play more adverts.
[quote][p][bold]JohnItaly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.[/p][/quote]football is a free flowing game, it is interesting that you chose 2 natural stoppages in the game to try to say otherwise. childish goal celebrations? going over to your fans to celebrate? hugging teams mates? yes there have been a few silly celebrations but most are fine with me. the one that are a bit silly often see the ref stopping his watch, this then doesn't waste game time refs also book players or some celebrations, gaston got booked for taking his shirt off. as for free kicks, there is noting to stop an attacking team from taking the free kick quickly. if a defender is not ten yards away and stops or gets hit by the ball he is liable to be booked. for free kicks in dangerous areas the attacking team often want to take a direct shot on goal with a specialist taker. the ref normally asks if they want the wall back ten yards and if so he informs he attacking team not to take the kick until he blows the whistle, you will see him hold the whistle up to make the point. time is then stopped to allow the ref to get the defence back the ten yards and then starts again when he blows the whistle. advancing free kicks forwards ten yards is often worse for the attacking team as its harder to take a free kick on the edge of the box than ten yards out. advancing free kicks was tried before to penalise defenders who argued with refs too much. it didn't work because of the adverse affect it had on the attacking team. you cannot advance an indirect free kick into the penalty area and award a penalty, as you can have indirect free kicks in the penalty area. they are not the same thing. to stop any argument over teams being ten yards away the refs should be given spray chalk, he paces ten yards sprays a line, which wears away quickly, and any defender who goes over the line gets booked, simple. I think I heard they do that in aussie rules, mush will know. technology would ruin football if its introduced, stopping the game all the time for often no reason. as is often said, what happens if team `a` thinks they should have been awarded a penalty but the ball doesn't go out of play and team `b` goes on a break and scores? do you stop the game at the time of the penalty decision or after the goal? when there is a natural break in play. what do you do if the penalty is awarded? do you give the penalty and disallow the goal? or give the penalty and also the goal? technology isn't the answer, I watch a lot of American football and back in the 80`s video replays were used after nearly `play` making the game even longer than it is now, it got so bad that the rules were changed and replays are limited to 2/3 per side per half. if they lose a replay they lose a timeout, which are very valuable in American football. even now with all the replay angles and cameras they have to use the still get decisions wrong and can only overturn a decision if there is absolute proof the original decision was wrong. these replays can take several minutes for the umpire to make a decision, can you see that in football? the fans don't see the replays the umpire uses until after so what will football fans do in the meantime? its also an excuse for tv companies to play more adverts. el caballo santos101
  • Score: 0

4:24pm Fri 3 Jan 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

florida saint wrote:
oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s.
There is no acusation of swearing as far as I know, it was a remark about the fact that since Lalla "played for England" he has become more argumentative, not so, it has been since he took over as Capatain that he has been putting his case for the team, there is a difference, the problem was that Lalla didn't have the precious armband on, so was not entitled to argue the point. However, what Clottenburg said was still out of order, but of untouchable when judged by his equals, rather than an unbiased jury.
[quote][p][bold]florida saint[/bold] wrote: oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s.[/p][/quote]There is no acusation of swearing as far as I know, it was a remark about the fact that since Lalla "played for England" he has become more argumentative, not so, it has been since he took over as Capatain that he has been putting his case for the team, there is a difference, the problem was that Lalla didn't have the precious armband on, so was not entitled to argue the point. However, what Clottenburg said was still out of order, but of untouchable when judged by his equals, rather than an unbiased jury. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

5:32pm Fri 3 Jan 14

el caballo santos101 says...

JohnItaly wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
Clever Dick wrote:
Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.
The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down.
What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.
If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions.

1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time?

2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.
football is a free flowing game, it is interesting that you chose 2 natural stoppages in the game to try to say otherwise.
childish goal celebrations? going over to your fans to celebrate? hugging teams mates? yes there have been a few silly celebrations but most are fine with me. the one that are a bit silly often see the ref stopping his watch, this then doesn't waste game time refs also book players or some celebrations, gaston got booked for taking his shirt off.
as for free kicks, there is noting to stop an attacking team from taking the free kick quickly. if a defender is not ten yards away and stops or gets hit by the ball he is liable to be booked. for free kicks in dangerous areas the attacking team often want to take a direct shot on goal with a specialist taker. the ref normally asks if they want the wall back ten yards and if so he informs he attacking team not to take the kick until he blows the whistle, you will see him hold the whistle up to make the point. time is then stopped to allow the ref to get the defence back the ten yards and then starts again when he blows the whistle.
advancing free kicks forwards ten yards is often worse for the attacking team as its harder to take a free kick on the edge of the box than ten yards out. advancing free kicks was tried before to penalise defenders who argued with refs too much. it didn't work because of the adverse affect it had on the attacking team.
you cannot advance an indirect free kick into the penalty area and award a penalty, as you can have indirect free kicks in the penalty area. they are not the same thing.
to stop any argument over teams being ten yards away the refs should be given spray chalk, he paces ten yards sprays a line, which wears away quickly, and any defender who goes over the line gets booked, simple. I think I heard they do that in aussie rules, mush will know.
technology would ruin football if its introduced, stopping the game all the time for often no reason. as is often said, what happens if team `a` thinks they should have been awarded a penalty but the ball doesn't go out of play and team `b` goes on a break and scores? do you stop the game at the time of the penalty decision or after the goal? when there is a natural break in play. what do you do if the penalty is awarded? do you give the penalty and disallow the goal? or give the penalty and also the goal?
technology isn't the answer, I watch a lot of American football and back in the 80`s video replays were used after nearly `play` making the game even longer than it is now, it got so bad that the rules were changed and replays are limited to 2/3 per side per half. if they lose a replay they lose a timeout, which are very valuable in American football. even now with all the replay angles and cameras they have to use the still get decisions wrong and can only overturn a decision if there is absolute proof the original decision was wrong. these replays can take several minutes for the umpire to make a decision, can you see that in football? the fans don't see the replays the umpire uses until after so what will football fans do in the meantime? its also an excuse for tv companies to play more adverts.
[quote][p][bold]JohnItaly[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Clever Dick[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]If you take a look at tennis, rugby, cricket etc all have been enhanced by the wait for a decision. Obviously it's a bit more difficult in a game like football but video replays are almost instant these days and it seems to me a pretty simple thing to do to have a video ref spotting the very obvious mistakes.These could then be shown on the big screen so there can be little argument. I understnd that the talking points at work etc would be vastly reduced but just imagine some of the new chants the crowd could come up with every time a big club didn't get it's way.[/p][/quote]The argument against is that football is more a continuous free flowing game than tennis, rugby and cricket. In cricket for example the video appeal was introduced for the howler, but that’s not how it is being used with 2 appeals ever x overs. Every decision is being discussed at length by at least five key players and slowing the game down. What happens in football if it is a play on decision pending video ref and the opponents go up the other end of the pitch and score. I predict a riot.[/p][/quote]If football is a "free flowing" game as you say then I have two questions. 1. Why do the authorities allow quite frankly childish goal celebrations that can take up an inordinate amount of time? 2. Free kicks seem to take longer and longer to take place, particularly in "dangerous" areas. Opponents stand over the ball whilst the defence "sorts itself out". This can often penalise the attacking team. The game would be more free flowing if it was the defenders sole responsibility to be ten yards (or is it metres now?) away and if not at the time the free kick is taken the free kick is moved ten yards further forward a in rugby. This means kicks taken within 10 yards of the penalty area would become penalties.[/p][/quote]football is a free flowing game, it is interesting that you chose 2 natural stoppages in the game to try to say otherwise. childish goal celebrations? going over to your fans to celebrate? hugging teams mates? yes there have been a few silly celebrations but most are fine with me. the one that are a bit silly often see the ref stopping his watch, this then doesn't waste game time refs also book players or some celebrations, gaston got booked for taking his shirt off. as for free kicks, there is noting to stop an attacking team from taking the free kick quickly. if a defender is not ten yards away and stops or gets hit by the ball he is liable to be booked. for free kicks in dangerous areas the attacking team often want to take a direct shot on goal with a specialist taker. the ref normally asks if they want the wall back ten yards and if so he informs he attacking team not to take the kick until he blows the whistle, you will see him hold the whistle up to make the point. time is then stopped to allow the ref to get the defence back the ten yards and then starts again when he blows the whistle. advancing free kicks forwards ten yards is often worse for the attacking team as its harder to take a free kick on the edge of the box than ten yards out. advancing free kicks was tried before to penalise defenders who argued with refs too much. it didn't work because of the adverse affect it had on the attacking team. you cannot advance an indirect free kick into the penalty area and award a penalty, as you can have indirect free kicks in the penalty area. they are not the same thing. to stop any argument over teams being ten yards away the refs should be given spray chalk, he paces ten yards sprays a line, which wears away quickly, and any defender who goes over the line gets booked, simple. I think I heard they do that in aussie rules, mush will know. technology would ruin football if its introduced, stopping the game all the time for often no reason. as is often said, what happens if team `a` thinks they should have been awarded a penalty but the ball doesn't go out of play and team `b` goes on a break and scores? do you stop the game at the time of the penalty decision or after the goal? when there is a natural break in play. what do you do if the penalty is awarded? do you give the penalty and disallow the goal? or give the penalty and also the goal? technology isn't the answer, I watch a lot of American football and back in the 80`s video replays were used after nearly `play` making the game even longer than it is now, it got so bad that the rules were changed and replays are limited to 2/3 per side per half. if they lose a replay they lose a timeout, which are very valuable in American football. even now with all the replay angles and cameras they have to use the still get decisions wrong and can only overturn a decision if there is absolute proof the original decision was wrong. these replays can take several minutes for the umpire to make a decision, can you see that in football? the fans don't see the replays the umpire uses until after so what will football fans do in the meantime? its also an excuse for tv companies to play more adverts. el caballo santos101
  • Score: 0

6:50pm Fri 3 Jan 14

southamptonadi says...

Mush On The Beach wrote:
I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us.
I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience.

Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football.
You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions.

I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever.
Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?
I would really love a ref to wear a headcam (even if its a ne of freindly) so I could watch a live game from his viewpoint wth no replays etc, it would be intresting to see if we noticed things the ref did and vice versa, to see see if it as hard as they say. Might even give us a different perspective on refs.
[quote][p][bold]Mush On The Beach[/bold] wrote: I think it’s the right move by the club to highlight Cluttenberg, given his past history against us. I agree with what was said above about miking up refs and getting decisions explained as in rugby and NFL. You would also pick up what the players are saying, though would it become too X-rated for the global audience. Quoting from above - Referees... people who aren’t quite good enough to play football. You could throw in Security Guards .... people who aren’t quite smart enough to be policeman, or university lecturers .... people not quite talented enough to perform in the business world. (Sorry Strassie). Truth is though, they are all needed professions. I am conflicted with my views on how to improve refereeing in general. Are they any worse now or is it just that that endless camera angles and replays highlight their human flaws now more than ever. Where do we want the beautiful game to go? Do we want a stop start game analysing every contentious decision by an off-field umpire or do we allow the human flaws to continue which keeps us all talking in the pubs and forums all week?[/p][/quote]I would really love a ref to wear a headcam (even if its a ne of freindly) so I could watch a live game from his viewpoint wth no replays etc, it would be intresting to see if we noticed things the ref did and vice versa, to see see if it as hard as they say. Might even give us a different perspective on refs. southamptonadi
  • Score: 0

7:10pm Fri 3 Jan 14

florida saint says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
florida saint wrote:
oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s.
There is no acusation of swearing as far as I know, it was a remark about the fact that since Lalla "played for England" he has become more argumentative, not so, it has been since he took over as Capatain that he has been putting his case for the team, there is a difference, the problem was that Lalla didn't have the precious armband on, so was not entitled to argue the point. However, what Clottenburg said was still out of order, but of untouchable when judged by his equals, rather than an unbiased jury.
ok osprey, get that, the refs all stick together in their union, this situation could cause other refs to side with their own, and result in more dodgy decisions going against us, I just don't see any point in this complaint, just a distraction from other footballing issues that we could be concentrating on..H N Y osprey and all the other loyal saints fans.. u t s.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]florida saint[/bold] wrote: oh dear the ref swore at adz, bet hes never heard swearing before, man up... u t s.[/p][/quote]There is no acusation of swearing as far as I know, it was a remark about the fact that since Lalla "played for England" he has become more argumentative, not so, it has been since he took over as Capatain that he has been putting his case for the team, there is a difference, the problem was that Lalla didn't have the precious armband on, so was not entitled to argue the point. However, what Clottenburg said was still out of order, but of untouchable when judged by his equals, rather than an unbiased jury.[/p][/quote]ok osprey, get that, the refs all stick together in their union, this situation could cause other refs to side with their own, and result in more dodgy decisions going against us, I just don't see any point in this complaint, just a distraction from other footballing issues that we could be concentrating on..H N Y osprey and all the other loyal saints fans.. u t s. florida saint
  • Score: -1

9:21pm Fri 3 Jan 14

Inthebox says...

Just heard what the ref said to AL.
Been a Saints fan all my life but come on saints most of us have had worse said to us walking down the road or from the missus! (Hope she doesn't read this)
Grow up and move on its making us look stupid and detracting from all the good work being done by the team,club and the fans.
Just heard what the ref said to AL. Been a Saints fan all my life but come on saints most of us have had worse said to us walking down the road or from the missus! (Hope she doesn't read this) Grow up and move on its making us look stupid and detracting from all the good work being done by the team,club and the fans. Inthebox
  • Score: 3

10:27pm Fri 3 Jan 14

florida saint says...

you know what, after a bit of time reflecting on this reffing issue, I find it embarrassing, for god sake let it go.im now cringing at the way the football world is seeing this. another p r disaster, get on with playing football...u t s
you know what, after a bit of time reflecting on this reffing issue, I find it embarrassing, for god sake let it go.im now cringing at the way the football world is seeing this. another p r disaster, get on with playing football...u t s florida saint
  • Score: 0

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