Saints announce £4.9m loss (From Daily Echo)

SPIN SPIN as much as you like RL but the majority of us want you out! Clear off you ******.

"Not my fault" nothing new there then! What amazes me is that he blames the "old board" for the problem. Not sure they are totally to blame - how many players were on hefty 2/3 year contracts before the "old borad" took over?

Still every other manager says we play the best football...funny how so many managers are magmanamous in winning (usually of course this is when they are defeated).

I noticed Steve Copple was more concerned about his team not turning up!

This is better than spin - it's straight from Rupert's own mouth. No wonder he says very little. Blame culture is typical of British Management...

The penultimate sentence says it all to everyone - but what is a true supporter? I think definition of support is a prop or crutch. I expect he chose that word very carefully - as my interpretation is "financial supporter". If he used the word fan - then of course I would have spun that too by referring to the "lunatic fringe" - now being labelled the small but vocal negative element. So it is acknowledged that there is a negative element by the great man...so Rupe's what are you going to do about it?
Sits back and awaits abuse from the usual "super fans" who only reply with threats and bile!

This is the reality. We are skint.
The worst can happen, look at Brighton and Wimbledon, now player sales look a certainty in January nomatter what happens. Read between the lines and we are looking at losing 3 players to keep the bank happy.
"Balance sheets are being forcibly contracted," very ominous.
Hopefully we can pull away from the bottom, otherwise we are looking at a very bad 2009.

Obviously written before the Reading game. Preparing us for the sale of players in January. While the gates remain below the break even figure that is bound to happen.

If you are one of those staying away, please, please think again. All that will happen if we go into administration is that Rupert will end up owning 100 per cent of Saints. Do you REALLY want that. I know I don't.

St.Yorkie wrote:
"Not my fault" nothing new there then! What amazes me is that he blames the "old board" for the problem. Not sure they are totally to blame - how many players were on hefty 2/3 year contracts before the "old borad" took over?

Still every other manager says we play the best football...funny how so many managers are magmanamous in winning (usually of course this is when they are defeated).

I noticed Steve Copple was more concerned about his team not turning up!

This is better than spin - it's straight from Rupert's own mouth. No wonder he says very little. Blame culture is typical of British Management...

The penultimate sentence says it all to everyone - but what is a true supporter? I think definition of support is a prop or crutch. I expect he chose that word very carefully - as my interpretation is "financial supporter". If he used the word fan - then of course I would have spun that too by referring to the "lunatic fringe" - now being labelled the small but vocal negative element. So it is acknowledged that there is a negative element by the great man...so Rupe's what are you going to do about it?
Sits back and awaits abuse from the usual "super fans" who only reply with threats and bile!

I feel sorry for you Yorkie. So, so bitter.

Life is too short for that.

No not bitter, but a long memory. This once great club had values, but we sold out...well someone did!
Everything was fine and dandy whilst we wasted the Premiership money on injured players and paying up contracts of failed Managers - but once the golden chalice went it was obvious we'd be deep in the brown stuff.
3,800 to Reading was FANtastic - but why not 3,800 to Doncaster, or Sheffield or Sunderland? Part time supporters?
I expect you will say hark at the kettle calling the copper black, or call me a hypocrite - sticks and stones!
Let's face it we all knew what was going to happen in January regardless of who was in charge or how many filled the corners of SMS.
No investor wants any part of the football club with the current set up, so no chance of a knight on a great white charger.
I can see the following:
A great run up to Christmas
Jan saying we have turned the corner
Lalanna says he didn't want to go
Rupert announcing a dividend to the shareholders
SMS attendance down to 11,000.

I did some maths last night...if 17,000 is break even and we have 9,000 season ticket holders - that means that 8,000 pay on the day. Average price of say £20 - the cost of opening SMS is £160,000 per game.

No mention of playing staff, coaching staff, etc. So what is the true break even point?

Channonite wrote:

St.Yorkie wrote: "Not my fault" nothing new there then! What amazes me is that he blames the "old board" for the problem. Not sure they are totally to blame - how many players were on hefty 2/3 year contracts before the "old borad" took over? Still every other manager says we play the best football...funny how so many managers are magmanamous in winning (usually of course this is when they are defeated). I noticed Steve Copple was more concerned about his team not turning up! This is better than spin - it's straight from Rupert's own mouth. No wonder he says very little. Blame culture is typical of British Management... The penultimate sentence says it all to everyone - but what is a true supporter? I think definition of support is a prop or crutch. I expect he chose that word very carefully - as my interpretation is "financial supporter". If he used the word fan - then of course I would have spun that too by referring to the "lunatic fringe" - now being labelled the small but vocal negative element. So it is acknowledged that there is a negative element by the great man...so Rupe's what are you going to do about it? Sits back and awaits abuse from the usual "super fans" who only reply with threats and bile!

I feel sorry for you Yorkie. So, so bitter. Life is too short for that.

Blimey our club is going down the pan and the handle is being flushed by RL....no wonder Yorkie is bitter so am I. Wake up and smell the coffee as they say. WE WANT WOOPERT OUT.

Well done Sat lads I have not forgotten but will not forgive RL.

Channonite wrote:
Obviously written before the Reading game. Preparing us for the sale of players in January. While the gates remain below the break even figure that is bound to happen.

If you are one of those staying away, please, please think again. All that will happen if we go into administration is that Rupert will end up owning 100 per cent of Saints. Do you REALLY want that. I know I don't.

well said i can see that to if saints go in to administration the only person going to buy saints will be lowe and that means him having full control ....... NOW THAT IS WORRYING

its easy to remedy this problem,remove rl the fans come back and everyone is happy! simple

"We have 16 points form 17 games , we are confident that we will become stronger as the season progresses"!! mmmmm !! How will this happen when players are sold in the new year??? Fantastic performance at the weekend but will it put more people off going knowing that these players may be sold?

Can we rename this site as The ** ****** "Hey look at me, I don't have anything else in my life" Site. Saints are the same fiscal position as 99% of Championship and Premier League (yes, including Man Unt, Celsea and Liverpoo etc, if their respective benefactors "pull the plug"). Clubs. All the bitterness in the world will not change this situation, the solution is based on increasing revenue - i.e. real fans turning up to suport their team. For the record, I am not a Lowe "Luvvie" or PR Guru, but a geniune fan who loves his team! If the issues is driven by a desire for a new chairman, then a reasonably full stadium makes Southampton FC a more attractive commercial proposition. Administration means that someone (probably Mr Lowe et al) will get their hands on our club on the cheap!! So come on everyone lets get behind the team and avoid our worst nightmare. COYR.

Rupert makes me laugh talking about the wonderful support at Reading when neither he or Michael Wilde were there. Rupert was apparently shooting while Wilde's whereabouts on saturday are unknown

pioneer saint wrote:
Rupert makes me laugh talking about the wonderful support at Reading when neither he or Michael Wilde were there. Rupert was apparently shooting while Wilde's whereabouts on saturday are unknown

could not RL use MW as target practice? it's a start!

How quickly some people will try to erode the warm glow of a great performance, and a brilliant result. The people who seem to have an agenda which is opposite to those who actually SUPPORT the club and it's players.

It seems like only yesterday there were shouts for some form of statement to be made from the club about it's financial situation, and also for the Chairman to break his silence. I recall saying a while ago that when that did happen, it would only give the baying mob mmore ammunition to shred Lowe.

Seems I was not wrong, and that is not me being smug or clever - unfortunately, it was just stating the obvious.

Anyone (other than me) that found very little in this announcemnent that either shocked or gave a reason to change allegiance and join the ranks of ther Anti Lowe Brigade?? Anything that gives those boys the right to say - "told you so"?? It is pretty much what I expected, and just emhasised why we should be busting a gut to fill SMS if we really had any interest in the future of our club.

You can please some of the people some of the tim ..... but apparently you cannot please the Anti Lowe Brigade ever.

If he walks tomorrow and we sink into oblivion these people who believe our only salvation is to be found in disposing of that evil rascal Mr Lowe, would then be blaming him for leaving. He will be blamed for ever more for whatever he does or does not do.

In truth I do not give a toss - I just want me and loads of other fans like me, to be able to just get on with the job of supporting.

You won't dent my passion for the club and nor will you prevent me from supporting the boys. You will just increase my endeavour to wake up the sleeping fans and fill our once proud stadium again.

It's coming - football's coming home. Just watch this site and the gates

Keep keeping the faith

Notice no comment from Wilde or Lowe it would be nice to hear from them as to where they see this club going it seems they do not have a clue where.So much for having aspirations os reaching the top six .Forget it for the foreseeable future.But this announcements means there is even more reason to keep paying out the cash to support the team.(not Lowe and Co) When they are gone SFC will hopefully still be there and still need our support

Good morning Monday. How long does it take for a maggot to develop? These anti-Lowe posters had a day off yesterday, licking their wounds after the superb Reading victory. They have beaten the maggot today, strange specis. I predict another quiet day from them Wednesday, then back in force Thursday/Friday. COYR

I think we all know that £4.5M has been removed from the club and given to Shareholders since we moved to the new ground
Dividends
Sept 2000 - £324,123
Sept 2001 - £328,070
Sept 2002 - £593,218
Sept 2003 - £856,227
Sept 2004 - £856,227
Sept 2005 - £140,000
TOTAL - £3,097,865

Share Buybacks
May 2002 400,000 @ 35p = £140,000
June 2002 2,746,153 @ 30p = £823,845
Oct 2002 1,120,000 @24p = £268,800
Sept 2004 450,000 @ 44p = £198,000
TOTAL - £1,430,645

What is needed now is :-
(1) A Rights Issue to put that money back into the Football Club, and that will remove the overdraft straight away.

(2) A committment at the AGM that there will be NO FURTHER dividend payments until we return to the Prem League.

(p.s. I have a feeling that the dark lord will not agree to either because (1) (IMO) he is in danger of losing power with a rights issue and (2) (IMO) it is only "spin" about returning to the PL and he is happy selling players and getting the "customers" to pay for a Dividend next year.

Finally we know what the future long term plan is for the club. Sell Sell Sell. If that is what we have to do to survive then there isn't too much to say or do. The reality that SFC are looking to just survive in the CCC and sell any talent off that comes through the acadamey should come as no surprise to anyone and at least we now know what ambition level to look foreward to. BUT will this board attract any investment? We cant live off the acadamy forever.
Shame about the spin though. 16 points from 17 games doesn't sound as bad as 16 points from a possible 51.

i wish some of you stay aways were at the game saturday, it's days like that that make it all worth while being a saints fan! going home that night i could not give a toss about the problems we face just the fact we had hammered the best team in the league, just maybe with more support like saturday we could do this every week? COYR!

Good posts from St John and St Yorkie even though I disagree with some of the points made. The prob with a rights issue is that iy has to be backed up with a plan that shows some difference - because if the rights isses was used (say) to buy more players to strengthen the squad I don't think it will be subscribed. It would have to be a plan that restructured wages with income and that's tricky. Bu I'd like to ask Rudd - if Lowe went (sorry I guess you like to call him Woopert for some bizarre reason based on envy?, intelligence? you tell me...) anyway what next? Tell us what happens next? What is your plan?

worried of sussex, I am with you - 100%.

Perhaps soon you will be able to improve your, name because things ARE getting better and the support is returning.

Keep keeping the faith

Andy Locks Heath wrote:
Good posts from St John and St Yorkie even though I disagree with some of the points made. The prob with a rights issue is that iy has to be backed up with a plan that shows some difference - because if the rights isses was used (say) to buy more players to strengthen the squad I don't think it will be subscribed. It would have to be a plan that restructured wages with income and that's tricky. Bu I'd like to ask Rudd - if Lowe went (sorry I guess you like to call him Woopert for some bizarre reason based on envy?, intelligence? you tell me...) anyway what next? Tell us what happens next? What is your plan?

Andy, no plan really as it is out of my hands who would / could take over? I feel getting rid of Rupert/Woopert is in my hands to some extent as protesting sometimes can have an impact. I've spoken to Rupert a few times and have found him pleasent, he probably thinks I am a peasent but he is not the man for the job. I will always support Saints, I have never booed them or a single player, but it hurts me to see them go down the pan with Woopert pulling the chain every week. (I certainly have no envy towards the man). COYR

I am confused as Rupert Lowe stopped investment into Saints in the last couple of years and is now moaning about further debt !

Maybe if the relegator sold his shares our club would be financially better off. He though wants to further crash it into the ground.

I think the most important figures to remeber in recent years is the £100 million plus in lost revenue when Lowe relegated Saints.


Still nice to see Lowe blame Wilde executives ! Lowe also seems to have left out the fact that the bank where happier with the Dec 07-May 08 board.

TottonScrutineer wrote:
Notice no comment from Wilde or Lowe it would be nice to hear from them as to where they see this club going it seems they do not have a clue where.So much for having aspirations os reaching the top six .Forget it for the foreseeable future.But this announcements means there is even more reason to keep paying out the cash to support the team.(not Lowe and Co) When they are gone SFC will hopefully still be there and still need our support

Has it escaped you that most of the above article is made up of quotes from Lowe?

I think we all knew that January sales were going to have to happen. I just hope that we are able to get clubs to buy the players we are not using and are out on loan ( Rasiak, John, Dyer and Saga) who knows if we can get a couple of million for those 4 players we might not need to sell any of our rising youngsters, as we shouldnt need to replace those 4 players.

Saint_John wrote:
I think we all know that £4.5M has been removed from the club and given to Shareholders since we moved to the new ground Dividends Sept 2000 - £324,123 Sept 2001 - £328,070 Sept 2002 - £593,218 Sept 2003 - £856,227 Sept 2004 - £856,227 Sept 2005 - £140,000 TOTAL - £3,097,865 Share Buybacks May 2002 400,000 @ 35p = £140,000 June 2002 2,746,153 @ 30p = £823,845 Oct 2002 1,120,000 @24p = £268,800 Sept 2004 450,000 @ 44p = £198,000 TOTAL - £1,430,645 What is needed now is :- (1) A Rights Issue to put that money back into the Football Club, and that will remove the overdraft straight away. (2) A committment at the AGM that there will be NO FURTHER dividend payments until we return to the Prem League. (p.s. I have a feeling that the dark lord will not agree to either because (1) (IMO) he is in danger of losing power with a rights issue and (2) (IMO) it is only "spin" about returning to the PL and he is happy selling players and getting the "customers" to pay for a Dividend next year.

The financial results released are for the year just ended and not for previous years so what you say about dividends and share buy backs is pointless.

A rights issue for a company is such a poor financial position does not make sense, who would buy the shares? The bank is (possibly) calling the shots now so any institution or private investor who knows what he/she is doing wont be interested in buying shares in a company that is leaking money and possibly on the verge of administration.

Dividends will only be paid when the board feel the business is in a postion to pay them, being in the premier league is not a guarantee there will be enough profit to pay dividends nor is being in the championship a reason why a profitable football club cannot pay dividends, its all about the health of the balance sheet.

I know this may be regarded as a stupid question, but here goes any way; have any of you read the all of the Financial Statement?

Look at the SFC Net Assets and even the most addled of the Anti-Lowe Brigade ought to be pleased the board has been able to stop the rot. There are at least four Premiership clubs that would trade a financial statement as good as the Saints.

And whose idea was it to pay out 81% of turnover on salaries and wages?

I look forward to reading the views of the non-Executives in the Lawrie Mac page soon!

Derek of Holbury wrote:
How quickly some people will try to erode the warm glow of a great performance, and a brilliant result. The people who seem to have an agenda which is opposite to those who actually SUPPORT the club and it's players. It seems like only yesterday there were shouts for some form of statement to be made from the club about it's financial situation, and also for the Chairman to break his silence. I recall saying a while ago that when that did happen, it would only give the baying mob mmore ammunition to shred Lowe. Seems I was not wrong, and that is not me being smug or clever - unfortunately, it was just stating the obvious. Anyone (other than me) that found very little in this announcemnent that either shocked or gave a reason to change allegiance and join the ranks of ther Anti Lowe Brigade?? Anything that gives those boys the right to say - "told you so"?? It is pretty much what I expected, and just emhasised why we should be busting a gut to fill SMS if we really had any interest in the future of our club. You can please some of the people some of the tim ..... but apparently you cannot please the Anti Lowe Brigade ever. If he walks tomorrow and we sink into oblivion these people who believe our only salvation is to be found in disposing of that evil rascal Mr Lowe, would then be blaming him for leaving. He will be blamed for ever more for whatever he does or does not do. In truth I do not give a toss - I just want me and loads of other fans like me, to be able to just get on with the job of supporting. You won't dent my passion for the club and nor will you prevent me from supporting the boys. You will just increase my endeavour to wake up the sleeping fans and fill our once proud stadium again. It's coming - football's coming home. Just watch this site and the gates Keep keeping the faith

Nice post Derek, I enjoyed reading it. I doubt whether the 'class warriors' will read it all, more likely through their 'attention deficit disorders'

Bring on Argyle and happy travelling to Charlton saturday

Am I alone in thinking that Lowe's comments and his plans for the club are are, under the circumstances, perfectly sensible?

Just returned from a few days in hospital, the best cure I had was the result on Saturday.
Now remember Crouch's announcement: "The Bank is happy to back us for another year!".
That must be the 'joke' of the year!!
As the Exiled Saint states, have you read the whole of the financial statement? or are you just reading out-dated trading figures.
UTS and others, I suspect you put your money into a bank and you want interest paid on the proceeds.
Whats the difference in investing in a business and getting a dividend for that money??
Perhaps some of you have read in the Sunday papers that POM*** is up for sale for £1.00. Their debts are £95M and are losing £1M a month.
AS I have stated before, this club needs Rupert Lowe more than he needs this club. The 'Whole' financial statement supports my view.

Ohhh how I love Derek and Traceyf,

Please oh please let me know how it is to live life looking through rose tinted specs...

Because, dear ol Rupey loves people like you....blindly passing the cash without thinking of the consequences.

Firstly Tracey the dividend information posted IS VALID INFO. It indicates how much was sucked out of the company under Lowe's stewardship....and therefore indicates his priorities - WAKE UP IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FOOTBALL, IT'S ABOUT THE PLC!!!!

Secondly, Derek, oh poor Derek. Please stop the 'I'm a better fan than you are' mallarkey. You're making yourself sound like a Lowe Acolyte.

Regardless of the footy on offer (Which is 16 points from 51 BTW, hardly that great) the crowds will not be returning any time soon whilst Lowe and Wilde remain.

Will Wilde survive the AGM??? I don't think so - he has served his purpose for you-know-who....

Derek
I read you post again, and on the second time of reading it i picked up a point about what happens when we sink even if Lowe has been dethroned (I chose that word very carefully).
In response I would imagine with Mr Lowe out of the picture and the demands he put on any new investment gone - we may have a benefactor that would come in & be more proactive about attracting investment. I don't think this would happen without a total re-shuffle of the current Management Team - after all who appointed the currrent lot?
It's tough trying to deliver the message without coming over as on the Anti-Lowe side of the fence, but which ever way you look at it - take Lowe out of the equation and what do you have? Incompetence of the highest order - so if the Chairman or board of directors are not to blame, then who is? The obvious one is the team, who is picked by the Manager, who is appointed by the Board - still comes back to the same place anyway you look at it.
As for the class thing I think it's absolute tosh. I've done hunting, shooting and fishing - and whilst the image is one of toffs sports - up here they are all done by normal down to earth people. Mind you with shotgun cartridges the price they are I think long bows will soon be making a comeback!
Which reminds me there is an old law never repealed in York that states you are "...entitled to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow if found inside the city walls".
He wouldn't be Rupert McLowe by any chance? Please this is only meant to be tongue in cheek - I'm not that diluded!

St. Yorkie, can you remember Crouch stating that he had arranged a 'take-over', which was only Months away,weeks away, days away before he and the others were ousted.
Yet all the time running the club into more debt.

What Rupert has forgotting to mention is that he is clearly a liability to SFC.
Heres a thought,giving that there are thousand upon thousands of fans STAYING AWAY because of HIM, how much revenue is he costing the club.
As l am a shareholder,l will be inviting Mr Lowe to step down because he is positively losing SFC and SLH vasts amount of revenue.
The man is just one big LIABILITY.
Work out how much he will cost SFC this season,because supporters are staying away.
7,000 X 23 GAMES = A LOT OF MONEY.
Just go Lowe,not only having your taking a vast amount of money out of my club over the years,you are now denying my club finance because you are not man enough to just accept that you are one of lifes failures,as evidence quite clearly demonstrates.

I have previously stated that should the relevant year accounts reveal that the financial plight of SFC was so bad that Lowe had little or no option to take the course he has followed, that I would apologise for doubting him

Rupert I apologise for doubting your financial acumen, in this instance.

But please try to inject an affordable level of experience back into the squad, when the best youngsters are sold in January, so that those that are not yet ready to replace them can be prepared for next season.

TAINT YORKIE - If it has escaped your attention let me advise you that since my last post there have been 6 positive, and only your post together with UTS and one other that have been negative. I am not looking for, nor am I taking any credit for this - it is just an observation that there is a greater degree of positivity around the club than there was a few weeks ago - and it is growing. This in my humble opinion is not because of Rupert Lowe but possibly in spite of him. It is not being denied that there are many people who share your views at the ground each match, but there are also many who are not prepared to get embroiled in the campaign. I know not why and I care not - I really only care that we have them at the ground.

Not sure where the 'toff' bit comes from becasue I have not mentioned it.

We seem to keep rehashing this point - but who in their right mind would want to buy this club right now, or if for whatever reasion Rupert Lowe decided enough was enough and walked. It is not exactly an exciting proposition is it/

Not really sure what your problem is with the management that picks the team. I think he is doing a fantastic job with the available playing staff. How long do you think Arsenal or Chelsea would survive in their current positions if they continually played a team with 7 or 8 under 21 kids from their academy. What is he supposed to do that would improve on what he is doing with the squad he has got?

My anticipation is that you will say this goes back to the top, that the manager should never have been placed in this predicamnent, and Rupert should either have kept the players he sold or brought some better ones in. You have read the financial report, so how much more depressing would that have appeared if he had done either or both of those things.

Saintly East Boldre - why is it looking through rose tinted specs to hope my team just struggle to save themselves from relegation? Surely they cannot be too rosey if that is all I am expecting, and this IS all I hope for and what I probably expect. Should I not be ecstatic that we took on one of the Championship contenders on their own ground and played them off the park to gain 3 valuable points? Should I not get excited when our team of kids managed to score 2 goals against them when they had previously only conceded two in seven games at home?

Listen, I work for my cash and that surely gives me some sort of right to decide where and how I spend it. I chose to buy a season ticket to go and watch the team I support. Yes I wish the tickets were cheaper and yes I wish we were in the Premiership with a lot of big name players in our team. The reality is that we are not, but does that mean I should complain about every single thing and then withold my support? Sorry, I cannot do that, and if that makes people who have a personal complaint against the chairman of the board angry or unhappy I am sorry. All I want to do is support my club every week and hope like hell we can improve and at some time get back to better days.

Please tell me what it is about my post that gives you the impression I feel I am a better supporter than you. I certainly is not what I think. I do not know you and have no real idea what your views are. I have tried very hard to write in a way that merely puts forward my views as a lifelong fan. I have suggested that the team would be better served by having more fans in the ground and that they deserve it. Financially I also think the club would be in a better position if more fans went through the turnstile.

I accept that there are fans who have issues with members of the current board but that is their concern not mine. I personally do not have sufficient issues with the board to become one of the group of people who have chosen to boycott the ground. That is their right and their choice, even though I do not see the point, and also believe it is damaging to the club.

In terms of the increasing gates and the "will Wilde survive" comments - neither of us can state with any certainty what will happen. My views oppose yours but that is not to say I think your ideas are unfounded. For what it is worth I believe there is an upsurge in the support of this club and I think it will carry on increasing. That is only my opinion and I am basing it on the size of the gate for the last (televised) game, the size of the away support for the last game, the good reports in national (and therefore unbiased) papers about the wonderful style and standard of football we play, and the increase on this site of positive postings.

Now I personally cannot see anything in this post to back up your claim about me somehow feeling I am superior. Perhaps, if you or any other poster can, you would be good enough to inform me and show me where I am doing it. It may just be something in the way I write and I am oblivious to the fact. I would rather not wind up fellow fans, so if you can show me where I am doing it I could perhaps change my style of writing.

If the reason is because I fervently support my club and will sing the praises of the team and it's manager when deserved, or because I will not join in with the Anti Lowe lobby - then tough, cause that aint changing.

I will, and know that lots of others also will - keep keeping the faith

Derek
We are talking at cross purposes - my critism of the Management Team goes back 3/4-years after Cardiff when we eventaully got relegated and sunsequent years in the CCC pre- Pearson.
Toffs business was aimed at someone else who raised it.
It's easy to be positive after a win, it would be even easier if todays figures released didn't show what they did. For many the future is indeed bright - for me I see more of the same.

A few observations;

1. Companies can make losses year after year but they only run out of cash once. Cash is now critical so every fan who boycotts to get Lowe out when he has only 5% of the shares and didn't appoint himself is only adding to that cash crisis. Given a choice between relegation and a points docking from insolvency and selling players, accepting relegation with no insolvency and points docking I'd take that latter.

2. Hopefully, we can get away without either and reduce wages from an insane 81% of turnover to the stated aim of £3m for playing staff, which would be roughly 50% of turnover.

3. If we escape both relegation and insolvency after selling players in Jan, then we should be in an excellent position to consolidate for a couple of years, draw in the best of the academy and supplement with bargain buys from elsewhere.

4. The management team deserve to succeed. Lowe has made some poor decisions, the poorest of which was not putting up the money for a decent replacement for Svensson when was needed. However, as far as I can tell from the accounts, Crouch and Co followed this with a series of catastrophic financial decisions and all but got us relegated anyway!

6. Whatever happens, never again I hope will the club live so far beyond its means, throwing money at the hobbled, (and I don't mean Svennson) venal and past it at the expense of blending in the young and talented.

7. If we get this right, on and off the field, I see great days ahead.

Dan the Dean - spot on, and I only wish that more would look at it this way, and I do think they are gradually beginning so to do.

Tainted Yorkie fair points, but I am living in the here and now. This team - this coaching set-up - this manager, had nothing to do with that. I am not supporting Lowe and I am not supoorting the management team, the coaching staff, or the players from 3 -4 years ago. I did that then.

What I want to do now is everything I possibly can to make sure this team succeeds and bring back the glory days to our club.

I am not being positive JUST because of one win, check all my posts - I have been positive all season. You cannot dispute that this bunch of kids are playing some of the best football ever seen at SMS, and they are doing it against incredible odds. They really have no right to expect even a point in this division with their inexperience and all the turmoil around them, let alone a glorious win at high flying Reading. However, they are getting the occasional points, and because of that and the superb way they play they are gaining support and making people sit up and take notice.

For sure, before the end of the season they will make slips and errors and lose games they perhaps should have won, but the fans I talk to who go regularly are saying the same as me. This team is worthy of my support and do you know what - never before can I remember going away from games we have lost and not feeling down or misrerable. The reason is that these nippers play the game as it should be played and work their socks off for the shirt, and that is refreshing.

I am not knocking you or anyone else who does not attend, or bigging myself up - just telling it like it is.

The support at games is good and it is improving and increasing in numbers. People are becomeing aware that we are on the verge of something good here and it is down to the CURRENT management team. Other than the fact that Lowe brought them in, he has nothing to do with this.

I will, and so will others - keep keeping the faith

Trust Lowe to make his statement right on the back of a good, hard fought result.
Nothing like a bit of assurance of January sales to instil confidence in our youngsters, who don't know where they're goin....!

I suppose he could have waited a couple of months so he could have been accused of sitting on it. Come on he released it when he had to release it. If you are going to find things to criticise make them worthwhile.

Derek of Holbury wrote:
I suppose he could have waited a couple of months so he could have been accused of sitting on it. Come on he released it when he had to release it. If you are going to find things to criticise make them worthwhile.

I'm entitled to criticise what i want, thanks. But i dont have to do them as epics on here all day, every day..

Costa Baz wrote:
I have previously stated that should the relevant year accounts reveal that the financial plight of SFC was so bad that Lowe had little or no option to take the course he has followed, that I would apologise for doubting him Rupert I apologise for doubting your financial acumen, in this instance. But please try to inject an affordable level of experience back into the squad, when the best youngsters are sold in January, so that those that are not yet ready to replace them can be prepared for next season.

Fair play Baz, very dignified. I HOPE its the likes of Rasiak, John, Dyer and Saga who are sold, although clearly Lallana, Surman and Schneiderlin are much more marketable. We will also lose some superb loan players in January, notably Cork and Pearce, unless we get very lucky, so it isn't going to be an easy ride to the end of the season, and positive support is going to remain essential.

St Retford wrote:
Am I alone in thinking that Lowe's comments and his plans for the club are are, under the circumstances, perfectly sensible?

No you aren't alone but don't admit you agree with his plans what ever you do lol

We all know our current financial situation is a result of relegation. And as UTS and his mates keep pointing out, all the fault of one man.

Remember those defining moments in the relegation season? We finished the season just 2 points adrift of WBA but with a superior goal difference. At home v Villa, we were 2 up, then Arry brings on Lowe. It was his defensive mistakes that gifted Villa 3 goals, 3 points chucked away.

Same in the game v Everton. We battered em. Then with just seconds to go, on comes Lowe. He gets the ball and instead of taking it into the corner to run down the clock he only goes and shoots. The Everton keeper punts it down field, the shot comes in from the right wing, our keeper has it covered but Lowe has tracked back and deflects the ball into the net, 2 points chucked away.

And its not just these two games. There were other games we gifted to the opposition as a direct result of Lowe’s intervention. So, Lowe out and bring in this rich bloke waiting to invest a trillion billion. Then we can stick two fingers up at Barclays Bank, get the kit man back, and add another 20,000 seats to accommodate all the “real” fans who will come flooding back. Prawn sandwich anybody?

homegrown wrote:
What Rupert has forgotting to mention is that he is clearly a liability to SFC. Heres a thought,giving that there are thousand upon thousands of fans STAYING AWAY because of HIM, how much revenue is he costing the club. As l am a shareholder,l will be inviting Mr Lowe to step down because he is positively losing SFC and SLH vasts amount of revenue. The man is just one big LIABILITY. Work out how much he will cost SFC this season,because supporters are staying away. 7,000 X 23 GAMES = A LOT OF MONEY. Just go Lowe,not only having your taking a vast amount of money out of my club over the years,you are now denying my club finance because you are not man enough to just accept that you are one of lifes failures,as evidence quite clearly demonstrates.

??????

Barcelona - Of course you can criticise, and I would not dream of trying to stop you. Just the same way (I hope) you would not try and stop me from commenting on your criticism.

What eaxactly do you not like about me being on here often and writing long posts. Surely I also have the option to do so, the same as you have the option to read them or not.

MILTONARCHERS - you are a naughty scallywag. You know people will get upset if you try to inject a little humour into proceedings - even if what you say makes sense.

Keep keeping the faith my friend

I went to the shops today to buy an overcoat for the winter. It was £100 so I said to the shop keeper look I'll give you twenty quid now and the rest in instalments based on how many times I wear it and how warm it keeps me. Needless to say he showed me the door. That is what Lowe must do when all the vultures come sniffing around hoping to snap up our talent on the cheap by putting limited amounts up front and the rest based on appearances etc. Lallana is £6 million now, Schneiderlin is £8 million also now. All fees must be paid up front so that we have money to reduce our overdraft and enable some investment in the team. While we let our players go on the cheap on HP we will never get back to the premier league.

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
I went to the shops today to buy an overcoat for the winter. It was £100 so I said to the shop keeper look I'll give you twenty quid now and the rest in instalments based on how many times I wear it and how warm it keeps me. Needless to say he showed me the door. That is what Lowe must do when all the vultures come sniffing around hoping to snap up our talent on the cheap by putting limited amounts up front and the rest based on appearances etc. Lallana is £6 million now, Schneiderlin is £8 million also now. All fees must be paid up front so that we have money to reduce our overdraft and enable some investment in the team. While we let our players go on the cheap on HP we will never get back to the premier league.

How do you know Lowe needs a new coat?

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
I went to the shops today to buy an overcoat for the winter. It was £100 so I said to the shop keeper look I'll give you twenty quid now and the rest in instalments based on how many times I wear it and how warm it keeps me. Needless to say he showed me the door. That is what Lowe must do when all the vultures come sniffing around hoping to snap up our talent on the cheap by putting limited amounts up front and the rest based on appearances etc. Lallana is £6 million now, Schneiderlin is £8 million also now. All fees must be paid up front so that we have money to reduce our overdraft and enable some investment in the team. While we let our players go on the cheap on HP we will never get back to the premier league.

Sorry mate, crass remark how thoughtless of me. If you need a coat I can let you have my old one. 38" chest, fur collar, leather patch on each shoulder, (helps reduce the bruising from the shotgun recoil). Some staining, mainly duck droppings. Don’t bother checking the pockets for cash, my mate Leon borrowed the coat for a while so the pockets are empty, there is an iou from Barclays, just ignore it, Leon did!

The way I see it, every Saints fan knows that the club are in the financial craper and cuts have to be made. The bigger problem is that whether rightly or wrongly they hold Rupert Lowe responsible for the current mess due to his mis management the first time round.
A vast amount of the stay away fans would be at the next game IF Lowe & Wilde were to resign.

The situation has got so bad that the ONLY way for the club to move forward is if Lowe & Wilde were to fall on their sword and move aside.

The issue of wether they are right or wrong is now irelevant.

The only way the club can pull out of this nosedive is with the increased revenue from these stay away fans would generate. And they simply won't come back while Lowe is in charge.

If Lowe & Wilde really care about the club they would step aside NOW.

US Spitfire wrote:
The way I see it, every Saints fan knows that the club are in the financial craper and cuts have to be made. The bigger problem is that whether rightly or wrongly they hold Rupert Lowe responsible for the current mess due to his mis management the first time round. A vast amount of the stay away fans would be at the next game IF Lowe & Wilde were to resign. The situation has got so bad that the ONLY way for the club to move forward is if Lowe & Wilde were to fall on their sword and move aside. The issue of wether they are right or wrong is now irelevant. The only way the club can pull out of this nosedive is with the increased revenue from these stay away fans would generate. And they simply won't come back while Lowe is in charge. If Lowe & Wilde really care about the club they would step aside NOW.

Your post is breathtaking in its stupidity. "The issue of wether they are right or wrong is now irelevant." What rubbish.
"A vast amount of the stay away fans would be at the next game IF Lowe & Wilde were to resign. " How do you know that?

Oh and by the way, Lowe and Wilde resign tomorrow, what then? Who replaces them? Try and think clearly and logically and remember, to support is to sustain.

COYR

miltonarchers wrote:
We all know our current financial situation is a result of relegation. And as UTS and his mates keep pointing out, all the fault of one man.

Remember those defining moments in the relegation season? We finished the season just 2 points adrift of WBA but with a superior goal difference. At home v Villa, we were 2 up, then Arry brings on Lowe. It was his defensive mistakes that gifted Villa 3 goals, 3 points chucked away.

Same in the game v Everton. We battered em. Then with just seconds to go, on comes Lowe. He gets the ball and instead of taking it into the corner to run down the clock he only goes and shoots. The Everton keeper punts it down field, the shot comes in from the right wing, our keeper has it covered but Lowe has tracked back and deflects the ball into the net, 2 points chucked away.

And its not just these two games. There were other games we gifted to the opposition as a direct result of Lowe’s intervention. So, Lowe out and bring in this rich bloke waiting to invest a trillion billion. Then we can stick two fingers up at Barclays Bank, get the kit man back, and add another 20,000 seats to accommodate all the “real” fans who will come flooding back. Prawn sandwich anybody?

lol. Too true.

As for fans flocking back?
Did they when he first went? Did they ....! Mr Crouch banked on it too, what chance?
The faith is kept inside St Mary's not out.

Saintly wrote:
Ohhh how I love Derek and Traceyf, Please oh please let me know how it is to live life looking through rose tinted specs... Because, dear ol Rupey loves people like you....blindly passing the cash without thinking of the consequences. Firstly Tracey the dividend information posted IS VALID INFO. It indicates how much was sucked out of the company under Lowe's stewardship....and therefore indicates his priorities - WAKE UP IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FOOTBALL, IT'S ABOUT THE PLC!!!! Secondly, Derek, oh poor Derek. Please stop the 'I'm a better fan than you are' mallarkey. You're making yourself sound like a Lowe Acolyte. Regardless of the footy on offer (Which is 16 points from 51 BTW, hardly that great) the crowds will not be returning any time soon whilst Lowe and Wilde remain. Will Wilde survive the AGM??? I don't think so - he has served his purpose for you-know-who....

Saintly,

Have you not noticed the PLC stopped paying dividends when it fell in to a loss? I fail to see how that is looking through rose tinted glasses so perhaps you will explain that to me?

Wilde has a bug enough share holding to survive a vote at the AGM and other share holders probably back him too.

I notice the bed-wetting whingers who kept well away after our superb win on Saturday are back again and have been heartened by our perilous financial results.
What motivates these so called fans ?

Well said Dan the Dean and Derek from Holbury.

We are where we are. The financial situation wasn't too great when Crouch (and Wilde mark one) took over from Lowe. But their actions in buying new players and raising the wage bill to 81% of gross revenue in a bid for promotion were a massive gamble which has almost put the Club/Company out of business. (Gordon & Alastair are doing the same with the UK's finances. God help us all!)

I was critical of Lowe when he chopped and changed the managers from 2004 to 2006, causing instability in the Club which had much to do with our drop from the Premiership. Once we were down, we suffered the fate of many of the medium sized clubs (e.g. Ipswich, Coventry, Sheffields Wednesday and nited, Birmingham, Derby, Charlton, Watford) - great difficulty in getting bck up again.

But Lowe is a financial man and we now need somebody at the helm who can deal with the banks. That he has a financial stake in the company provides him with an incentive to ensure its survival.

Even if not all the fans can forgive Lowe, they can play their part by supporting Poortvliet, the other coaches and the players wholeheartedly. It does no good to carp on about Lowe if it harms the football people who are trying their best to revive our fortunes. The team did so well at Reading with the vocal support of more than 3,500 travelling fans. How it would help to have the vocal support of 20,000 loyal Saints fans at St Mary's - starting tomorrow night.

Maybe it's our fault that the team is finding it so hard to win at home and yet can get such good results away. The Northam Stand lads are giving great support with their chants. Even if those in other stands (like me in the Kingsland) are not into chanting, we can still clap our hands in unison.

I really don't want to mention that lot down the M27 East, but they are putting Saints fans to shame with the noise they make at home games. Just like at the old Dell, enthusiasm from the crowd will transfer to the pitch.

So COYR. Get behind the team.

jeeze,dull dull dull frickin dull, wow were in the s*ite financialy ,big news,yeah and so are the vast majority of professional football clubs.It wasnt Lowe who missed the pen at Derby in the playoffs it was Leon Best,thats right Leon god damm Best,if he`d scored then maybe just maybe this story would have been irrelevent.Im gonna ask the Coventry fans to boycott their next home game in a show of unity with us.Please can we all just talk about football,this is soooooo boring,ive been grafting on a roof all day,and i want to bask in our glorious win against Reading and look forward to a difficult match with plymouth.

How interesting!

Nice to see Mr Lowe blaming everyone else as usual for the clubs ills.

Clever strategy pump priming the fans to the inevitable player sales in January, of course Mr Lowe never did that when we were fianancially sound did he?

What will happen in the summer when the cupbaords bare and we have no-one left to sell.....who's fault will that be I wonder.

Rudd Gillett wrote:
SPIN SPIN as much as you like RL but the majority of us want you out! Clear off you ******.

Get your head out of the sand Rudd Gillett! Saints were never in this mess when Lowe was Chairman before. He didn't want Redknapp, the board did. He's doing his best to secure the financial future of the club. Why don't you go and support Leeds!

saint Compo wrote:
Well said Dan the Dean and Derek from Holbury. We are where we are. The financial situation wasn't too great when Crouch (and Wilde mark one) took over from Lowe. But their actions in buying new players and raising the wage bill to 81% of gross revenue in a bid for promotion were a massive gamble which has almost put the Club/Company out of business. (Gordon & Alastair are doing the same with the UK's finances. God help us all!) I was critical of Lowe when he chopped and changed the managers from 2004 to 2006, causing instability in the Club which had much to do with our drop from the Premiership. Once we were down, we suffered the fate of many of the medium sized clubs (e.g. Ipswich, Coventry, Sheffields Wednesday and nited, Birmingham, Derby, Charlton, Watford) - great difficulty in getting bck up again. But Lowe is a financial man and we now need somebody at the helm who can deal with the banks. That he has a financial stake in the company provides him with an incentive to ensure its survival. Even if not all the fans can forgive Lowe, they can play their part by supporting Poortvliet, the other coaches and the players wholeheartedly. It does no good to carp on about Lowe if it harms the football people who are trying their best to revive our fortunes. The team did so well at Reading with the vocal support of more than 3,500 travelling fans. How it would help to have the vocal support of 20,000 loyal Saints fans at St Mary's - starting tomorrow night. Maybe it's our fault that the team is finding it so hard to win at home and yet can get such good results away. The Northam Stand lads are giving great support with their chants. Even if those in other stands (like me in the Kingsland) are not into chanting, we can still clap our hands in unison. I really don't want to mention that lot down the M27 East, but they are putting Saints fans to shame with the noise they make at home games. Just like at the old Dell, enthusiasm from the crowd will transfer to the pitch. So COYR. Get behind the team.

saint Compo,

It is strange indeed how Lowe wasn't at the club when the wage bill went up by so much but somehow its still his fault and not that of others.

Spot on about supporting the team and coaching staff, its a shame that some so called fans refuse to supprt the team just because the don't like Lowe.

All this story is tells us what we knew already

A combination of poor management decisions from both Lowe in the first place followed by irresponsible spending by subsequent boards has created this.

IMHO the boycott is a smoke-screen for the majority of fans.

If you think that if RL had not come back that our crowds would be 8-9k more than now you are deluded.

Face facts - People will support a winning team. Do you think Hull sold out 4-5 years ago , obviously not.

Look at the Cup final in 2003 , you only needed to have gone to 5 games at SMS that year to get a ticket yet we had 25000 tickets . Then take into account every cup game was at home then you will realise that at fan base is not a big at we think.

We have a very loyal band of supporters that should be pulling together in times of need rather than be distracted by the RL debate.

Surely the club is bigger than any one man whether it be manager, player or director.

The club was there before RL and will be there after RL but only if the fans beleive in one thing.

THE TEAM

COYR

Derek, (yes, from Holbury) Your stamina at fighting all these P*mpey fans astounds us all. Most of us just sit here and shake our heads in disbelief at their comments, but you keep on fighting for us. We are proud of you. Thank you on behalf of all genuine SAINTS fans. COYR.

UTS wrote:
I am confused as Rupert Lowe stopped investment into Saints in the last couple of years and is now moaning about further debt !

Maybe if the relegator sold his shares our club would be financially better off. He though wants to further crash it into the ground.

I think the most important figures to remeber in recent years is the £100 million plus in lost revenue when Lowe relegated Saints.


Still nice to see Lowe blame Wilde executives ! Lowe also seems to have left out the fact that the bank where happier with the Dec 07-May 08 board.

Confused isn't the half of it. You supported Wilde ousting Lowe = the crazy board we had until December. You supported Crouch = the Board we had until May = the whole disastorous financial year. So, forgive me, but I don't think we can rely on your expertise on what makes good directors (I don't disagree with much of the criticism of Lowe in the years after the Cardiff Cup final).

Saint_John wrote:
I think we all know that £4.5M has been removed from the club and given to Shareholders since we moved to the new ground
Dividends
Sept 2000 - £324,123
Sept 2001 - £328,070
Sept 2002 - £593,218
Sept 2003 - £856,227
Sept 2004 - £856,227
Sept 2005 - £140,000
TOTAL - £3,097,865

Share Buybacks
May 2002 400,000 @ 35p = £140,000
June 2002 2,746,153 @ 30p = £823,845
Oct 2002 1,120,000 @24p = £268,800
Sept 2004 450,000 @ 44p = £198,000
TOTAL - £1,430,645

What is needed now is :-
(1) A Rights Issue to put that money back into the Football Club, and that will remove the overdraft straight away.

(2) A committment at the AGM that there will be NO FURTHER dividend payments until we return to the Prem League.

(p.s. I have a feeling that the dark lord will not agree to either because (1) (IMO) he is in danger of losing power with a rights issue and (2) (IMO) it is only "spin" about returning to the PL and he is happy selling players and getting the "customers" to pay for a Dividend next year.

Tosh. A rights issue requires buyers. Who on erth is going to buy into that balance sheet. We haven't had a dividend since losses started.

homegrown wrote:
What Rupert has forgotting to mention is that he is clearly a liability to SFC.
Heres a thought,giving that there are thousand upon thousands of fans STAYING AWAY because of HIM, how much revenue is he costing the club.
As l am a shareholder,l will be inviting Mr Lowe to step down because he is positively losing SFC and SLH vasts amount of revenue.
The man is just one big LIABILITY.
Work out how much he will cost SFC this season,because supporters are staying away.
7,000 X 23 GAMES = A LOT OF MONEY.
Just go Lowe,not only having your taking a vast amount of money out of my club over the years,you are now denying my club finance because you are not man enough to just accept that you are one of lifes failures,as evidence quite clearly demonstrates.

This is great example of how the stayaways get it wrong. They won't go to SMS unless Loew goes. Lowe won't go. What do you do next?

The stayaway answer is for more to stay away and bankrupt the club. How does that get rid of Lowe? Answer is it doesn't. He buys the club from the administrator and ends up owning most if not all of it a la Ken Bates at Leeds. We are in the third division with a 10-15 point penalty - and Rupert Lowe.

Great strategy guys.

Barcelona Saint wrote:
Trust Lowe to make his statement right on the back of a good, hard fought result.
Nothing like a bit of assurance of January sales to instil confidence in our youngsters, who don't know where they're goin....!

Its because the accounts are published for goodness sake.

1 Letting player and coach costs get to 81% of income was mad. 2 ttendances fell in both the last two seasons - it seems that almost 9,000 fans boycotted SMS last season and a further 6,000 are staying away this season.
3 Season ticket sales this summer were up almost 12% but at prices down by 20%, so the previous Board's price cutting gamble didn't pay off.
Anyway you look at the finances of the club over he last few years you come to the conclusion that every group of rich men that has run the club has done so badly. So, if you want Lowe and Wilde out, which group of rich men do you want to take their place and what guarantee is there that they will do any better?

Costa Baz wrote:
I have previously stated that should the relevant year accounts reveal that the financial plight of SFC was so bad that Lowe had little or no option to take the course he has followed, that I would apologise for doubting him

Rupert I apologise for doubting your financial acumen, in this instance.

But please try to inject an affordable level of experience back into the squad, when the best youngsters are sold in January, so that those that are not yet ready to replace them can be prepared for next season.

Good on you for putting your hand up.

US Spitfire wrote:
The way I see it, every Saints fan knows that the club are in the financial craper and cuts have to be made. The bigger problem is that whether rightly or wrongly they hold Rupert Lowe responsible for the current mess due to his mis management the first time round.
A vast amount of the stay away fans would be at the next game IF Lowe & Wilde were to resign.

The situation has got so bad that the ONLY way for the club to move forward is if Lowe & Wilde were to fall on their sword and move aside.

The issue of wether they are right or wrong is now irelevant.

The only way the club can pull out of this nosedive is with the increased revenue from these stay away fans would generate. And they simply won't come back while Lowe is in charge.

If Lowe & Wilde really care about the club they would step aside NOW.

Makes UTS sound like a genius. See my response to Homegrown above. Lowe won't go. Just tell me, what do you do next?

Incidentally, the stayaways didn't flock back when Wilde ousted Lowe last time.

Let's accept for the sake of argument that Lowe and Wilde don't care about the club (although that's not what the anti Lowes were saying about Wilde a year or so back). But they won't go. If the stayaways cared about the club, they would swallow that unpalatable fact and be at SMS supporting the team, using other tactics to get at Lowe. Instead they are seeking to get the team relegated by forcing player sales through lack of income. Lowe and the stayaways, locked in a dance of death for ther club. How sad.

Couldn't agree more, Saint in Melbourne; Lowe wanted Hoddle, Fans didn't, Board went with the Fans and took Redknapp we all know what happened next!!!

So that's sorted out the arguments for taking a risk and spending BIG money to guarantee success, that's what wilde did git us into a 6.3M overdraft which we now have to recover from.

I back Lowe, I back his business model and vision. Get a grip; 9 points from 6th place!?!?!

COYR

Good to see that there's someone else out there with a brain NZsaint. Maybe you have to be on the other side of the world to have a bit of perspective?

What happened to the idea of picking one match in December where we would all make a concerted effort to fill the stadium for just one match.

For the fans who already go to each match: -

It would warm their hearts to see a stadium filled for a home match.

It would also prove to them once and for all that there are indeed all these thousands who are staying away because of Lowe.

For the stay away fans: -

It would give you the opportunity once and for all to prove that you do in fact have all these thousands of fans who are staying away because of Lowe.

It would mean the four corners would have to be opened up to accommodate the crowd.

You could all mount a protest at the game to let Lowe know your feelings.

To the club: -

It would provide some very useful revenue.

To the players it would mean: -

They could experience what it feels like to play in front of a bigger crowd than they always have to go to other grounds to experience.

It may also show them that there are thousands more fans than they usually see who actually support them.

It may even imporove their performance.

Everybody wins don't they?

Won't happen will it?

All this talk of stay away fans; last time I checked, I supported the team and the eleven on the field that are Southampton FC, not the chairman!!

Why dont we just support the team - i think i am a more loyal supporter i nCyprus than half the people who live in Southampton by the sounds of these comments.

You want to watch crap football come to NZ; the Wellington Pheonix - not to mention the LA Galaxy v Oceania (overweight retired)All Stars next weekend.

By the way got a strong silky skilled NZ U17 player at College, do you reckon SFC will be interested; not to mention the U20, NZ Football Fern.....silly me she's a woman, still SFC could be interested!!!!

Up the Saints, Up the exiles!!!

COYR

derek fo holbury wrote:
What happened to the idea of picking one match in December where we would all make a concerted effort to fill the stadium for just one match. For the fans who already go to each match: - It would warm their hearts to see a stadium filled for a home match. It would also prove to them once and for all that there are indeed all these thousands who are staying away because of Lowe. For the stay away fans: - It would give you the opportunity once and for all to prove that you do in fact have all these thousands of fans who are staying away because of Lowe. It would mean the four corners would have to be opened up to accommodate the crowd. You could all mount a protest at the game to let Lowe know your feelings. To the club: - It would provide some very useful revenue. To the players it would mean: - They could experience what it feels like to play in front of a bigger crowd than they always have to go to other grounds to experience. It may also show them that there are thousands more fans than they usually see who actually support them. It may even imporove their performance. Everybody wins don't they? Won't happen will it?

Derek
This was one of my more sensible suggestions, and I went to the club (David Luker) with it.
If you remember I proposed the SWFC game on 6th Dec 2008 (my wedding anniversary!) and asked for as a gesture Blocks 1 & 2 were opened. I was kindly informed to pick the Forest game as prices were reduced two weeks later. A fixture a few days before Xmas is a notoriously bad turn out everywhere.
Don't get me wrong - I'm still up for it - but there seems to be very few takers. The problem with it all is apart from exiled cyber fans, Saints fans on the internet seem only to represent a small proportion. On SaintsForever they honestly believed the Forum reprepsented 99% of the fans! Can you believe that?
A rallying call or appeal from the club from Rupert himself would be a start. Not a swipe at the vocal negative minority like recently.
Come on The Echo go to Mr. Lowe and ask him to make an appeal based on logic. Show me I am the reason and I'll look at what I can do for the best of the football club. Don't reduce the prices - but open all 4-corners. Let's see what the stayaways do then!

Like you say though - it'll never happen.

Some great comments from our antipodean friends - keep em coming lads it may shame some of our home based fans into meeting the rallying call, and yes you are right - it should be about football, not the moans. Then again, we are the whinging Poms aren't we.

Tainted Yorkie, I know we discussed this before, but you cannot expect the Club to take the risk and open the corners at the expense they would incur in the belief that the fans would flock to the ground. The fans should pick a match, buy the tickets and FORCE the club to open them up. What better way to promote your cause, and bring home to the powers that be the absolute proof of the strength of feeling, and the numbers involved in this supposed stayaway boycott you claim exists. At the same time it would also prove it to the doubters who actually go to the matches to support the lads.
As for your friend RL making the gesture - well according to most of the negative posters, he is either too far up his own to even realise there are people with a grievance, or would not be interested in taking steps to address it if he did.

The point I was making is this - if the anti Lowe Brigade really do exist in the huge numbers we are led to believe, and if they are really only staying away because of Lowe, then why not prove it to us the doubters, and also let RL know into the bargain by simply going to this 'one off' match. What better way to highlight your cause and really giving the Board an unrefutable statement that RL is significantly reducing the income of this club.

Won't happen though will it?

I still keep on keeping the faith, and so do increasing numbers of people who are keen to show they really support the club and it's players.

It is red and white that is important, not one man

One word sums it up;

"Superbarclayshasnob
*ll*x;loweand wildearehistory"

To FFan, Miltonarcher and anyone else who thought my post stupid.

What I am saying is that Lowe & Wilde have caused such a rift in support that something has to give. On one side you have 2 people, on the other several thousand. It would be easier to get the 2 to back down and than the 1000's.
If I am wrong, please explain to me how you see the downward spiral ending and how do you think the missing thousands will return to SMS while Lowe & Wilde are in charge?

US Spitfire,

Can I ask you a question and I don't mean this to sound condescending. How can you say there are so many people who are anti Lowe/Wilde, and they have divided the fan base.

On this site we get three or four regular posters with these views, and perhaps a dozen who spasmodically contribute.

You all say the same thing, but I am still wondering on what you are basing your statement.

I am not stupid enough to lack some appreciation for an anti Lowe/Wilde feeling within the fanbase, but I am buggered if I could put a fihure on it and I don't know anybody who could without a properly organised poll.

There are numerous reasons why fans are staying away at the moment and I don't think any of us knows how many stay away for which reason.

If I am wrong I will hold my hands up

Sure – its good to engage in a sensible debate over this argument (apologies for comparing you to UTS).

My argument is that fans can control their own actions i.e. turn up or not. They can't control the actions of Lowe and Wilde. By their own actions alone, they can ensure the club has enough money not to have to sell in January. If they don't turn up it is clear there is no option. I willingly concede that turning up won’t guarantee that players won’t be sold. But it is guaranteed they will be if they don’t. 17,000 plus crowds give us a chance. 14,000 crowds don’t.

Taken to its extreme, the UTS strategy is to boycott until Lowe and Wilde go, even if that means relegation and/or administration. And, if that doesn’t get rid of them, to keep on boycotting until we enter administration again and get relegated again; and so on. They quite openly admit to rather having the club disappear than put up with Lowe and Wilde. I find that, literally, a preposterous strategy.

Instead, I argue that fans have to rise above Lowe and take what action they can to save the club - in spite of Lowe, if you wish. I hope you would agree that a successful team is as least as likely to lead to Lowe’s departure as a failed one - because the share price on offer to him will be higher.

Finally, I am of course assuming for the sake of argument here that the thousands of missing fans are staying away out of a principled opposition to Lowe. That’s nonsense of course. Southampton will get the team its fan base deserves. At the moment, that fan base might just about keep us in the Championship. Get to 17,000 and keep our young team, in a year or two it might get us to the top of it.

US Spitfire wrote:
To FFan, Miltonarcher and anyone else who thought my post stupid. What I am saying is that Lowe & Wilde have caused such a rift in support that something has to give. On one side you have 2 people, on the other several thousand. It would be easier to get the 2 to back down and than the 1000's. If I am wrong, please explain to me how you see the downward spiral ending and how do you think the missing thousands will return to SMS while Lowe & Wilde are in charge?

Sure – its good to engage in a sensible debate over this argument (apologies for comparing you to UTS).

My argument is that fans can control their own actions i.e. turn up or not. They can't control the actions of Lowe and Wilde. By their own actions alone, they can ensure the club has enough money not to have to sell in January. If they don't turn up it is clear there is no option. I willingly concede that turning up won’t guarantee that players won’t be sold. But it is guaranteed they will be if they don’t. 17,000 plus crowds give us a chance. 14,000 crowds don’t.

Taken to its extreme, the UTS strategy is to boycott until Lowe and Wilde go, even if that means relegation and/or administration. And, if that doesn’t get rid of them, to keep on boycotting until we enter administration again and get relegated again; and so on. They quite openly admit to rather having the club disappear than put up with Lowe and Wilde. I find that, literally, a preposterous strategy.

Instead, I argue that fans have to rise above Lowe and take what action they can to save the club - in spite of Lowe, if you wish. I hope you would agree that a successful team is as least as likely to lead to Lowe’s departure as a failed one - because the share price on offer to him will be higher.

Finally, I am of course assuming for the sake of argument here that the thousands of missing fans are staying away out of a principled opposition to Lowe. That’s nonsense of course. Southampton will get the team its fan base deserves. At the moment, that fan base might just about keep us in the Championship. Get to 17,000 and keep our young team, in a year or two it might get us to the top of it.

16.6m seems an awful lot to lose in a year.

Even if the wage bill was totally responsible for the loss (if the gate receipts and the tele money only covered the day to day running of the club) we could pay a squad of players an average of over 10k a week and we know that we can’t pay certain players more than 4k.

There is something seriously wrong at this club

Last Season
High 31,957
Low 17,741
Avg 21,254

This season
High 18,925
Low 14,226
Avg 15,771

Based on the average that is more than 25% of the clubs support that are staying away.

I totally agree with FFan that the best way for everyone to move forward is if the team become a success and make loads of money so Lowe can fill his wheelbarrow with cash go out with the head held high.

But that realistically isn't going to happen. There's very little that can be done to change things onfield at the moment to tempt people back sooner rather than later, so you have to look at other ways. The most logical way to try to get those fans back is remove one of the other main reasons they are staying away - Mr Lowe.

I'm not saying he's the only reason for such a drop in attendances, but from speaking to many people back there who haven't been this season, as well as from what I have read on various forums, Lowe is a big part of the reason.

Even if it only leads to an extra 1000 fans per game, the increase in revenue will go along way to improving the financial situation at the club.

This is just one idea. If you don't agree then let's here your solutions (other than telling people to just suck it up) Don't forget, the vast majority of the stay away fans are doing so because they care for the club and believe they have the best interests of the club at heart.

Spitfire,

I have obviously got a different bunch of people to talk to, because most of those are saying they are fed up with the 'Lowe out' nonsense and the others say they are pro the campaign but will do nothing to agffect the team. Staying away is not the answer.

What I cannot undestand with your argument is what if the campaign is succesful and Lowe and Wilde up sticks and walk? Who takes over? How long would this take? How much more disruption can we take? How do you know it would improve things?

Forget the mess he was supposed to have caused first time around - he is currently doing nothing wrong.

Look at the financial mess we were in when he returned, and putting aside the arguments of who was to blame - what else other than what he has done since his return could he have he done? What could someone else have done differently that would have been an improvement?

What we need most right now is stability - and more people through the turnstiles.

What the team needs is support.

Cannot see any pont in driving the club into the ground just so some can say - "I told you so"