Schneiderlin: All Newcastle's goals were avoidable (From Daily Echo)

Look their first was lucky one the 2nd was foul on LS, the hand Ball was ball to hand and own goal but what my worry is that we do not have any cover for LS Fox come on and it all seem to fall apart we got the early goal and then seem to sit back if we are going to play so far up the park then we need to be quicker getting back to deffend still lets make sure of QPR as a winning result

Having watched the match via a streaming website and the highlihts on MOTD there were disappointing features to the game yesterday. I thought as the game was being played that Shaw was having what was a poor game for him. In respect of the first goal he seemed to simply jog back rather than attempt get in front of the goal scorer. On the second goal for Newcastle he jumped and missed a header albeit he may well have been nudged. He didn't seem to be on top of his game and looked unfit and tired. Strasbourg Saint who was at the game commented that it was the worse that he'd seen him play.

I'm not knocking Shaw he's a great talent but bearing in mind his age is too much being expected of him? Is he playing too much at this level? There must be a risk if he continues that he will burn out. I'd hate to see that happen.

In light of the above that was why Shaw was subbed. It probably puts into context Fox's performance. I personally think that the criticism of Fox yesterday is unfair on the lad. IMO and I stress IMO that was not a penalty on the basis it was ball to hand. The og was a fluke and Newcatle were lucky in respect of that goal. What perhaps is disappointing is the lack of commuinication between Fox and Hoovield but they are not the only two players gulty of that.

On reflection IMO leaving Puncheon out was a mistake. I still have concerns about Lallana. Albeit he was better second half and had an assist with Rickie's 100th goal he did nothing that I could see in the first half. I think he struggles at this level. That is my opinion I'm not saying I'm right but I would like to see him do more.

Anyway onwards and upwards lets go and get three points against QPR a team who will be very much 'up for it' as Redknapp like Pardew has a point to prove!!

Agree that not everyone in the current squad could be classed as a good Premiership player. When the team is on top those deficiencies can be hidden but yesterday there were a few cracks appearing. The number of yellow cards also says a lot - players under pressure and getting frustrated.

My biggest concern ever since we got to the Premiership has been our inability to convert pressure and opportunities into shots on target. We keep conceding important goals to players shooting from outside the box but how often do we do that?

The impression I get is that apart from RL at free kicks no one seems to have the ability to hit shots on target from more than 10 yards out which is ridiculous. I may be mistaken on that not seeing them every week but would be interested in other people's views.

saint christopher wrote:
Agree that not everyone in the current squad could be classed as a good Premiership player. When the team is on top those deficiencies can be hidden but yesterday there were a few cracks appearing. The number of yellow cards also says a lot - players under pressure and getting frustrated.

My biggest concern ever since we got to the Premiership has been our inability to convert pressure and opportunities into shots on target. We keep conceding important goals to players shooting from outside the box but how often do we do that?

The impression I get is that apart from RL at free kicks no one seems to have the ability to hit shots on target from more than 10 yards out which is ridiculous. I may be mistaken on that not seeing them every week but would be interested in other people's views.

I think these are pointsvery well made!

Luke was slightly off his game yesterday, but he was being expertly hassled at times both fairly and unfairly by the more experienced opposition.
Both the 2nd goal and his booking were prime examples.
It is not coincidental that a series of calamitous defending involved Fox. He has been a culprit several times before.
For the fourth goal, a left back should be more aware of whats around him when being 'the last man' across the back. He should know that with nobody behind him he could have let the ball run across him and harmlessly away.
Yes, the penalty was ball to hand, but if you riase your arms in the box in trying to block a cross it doesnt take rocket science to work out the dilemma you will give the referee.

SaintMax wrote:
Luke was slightly off his game yesterday, but he was being expertly hassled at times both fairly and unfairly by the more experienced opposition.
Both the 2nd goal and his booking were prime examples.
It is not coincidental that a series of calamitous defending involved Fox. He has been a culprit several times before.
For the fourth goal, a left back should be more aware of whats around him when being 'the last man' across the back. He should know that with nobody behind him he could have let the ball run across him and harmlessly away.
Yes, the penalty was ball to hand, but if you riase your arms in the box in trying to block a cross it doesnt take rocket science to work out the dilemma you will give the referee.

Unarguable points SaintMax!

no sympathy for fax or hooiveld, they will have 1 good game then mess up in the next 5 games. clearly both of them not prem standard.

hooiveld broke records today by scoring the most own goals in a season, u all aware of that right? says it all about him. his terrible performance must surely mean Fonte is back in the picture now! hope so.

saintlysoul wrote:

SaintMax wrote:
Luke was slightly off his game yesterday, but he was being expertly hassled at times both fairly and unfairly by the more experienced opposition.
Both the 2nd goal and his booking were prime examples.
It is not coincidental that a series of calamitous defending involved Fox. He has been a culprit several times before.
For the fourth goal, a left back should be more aware of whats around him when being 'the last man' across the back. He should know that with nobody behind him he could have let the ball run across him and harmlessly away.
Yes, the penalty was ball to hand, but if you riase your arms in the box in trying to block a cross it doesnt take rocket science to work out the dilemma you will give the referee.

Unarguable points SaintMax!

As you have said before Saintly, Lukes age is a factor that could count against him for all his great plus points.
Coming up against old seasoned Pro's is one of them too.

When will we learn? Danny Fox cannot defend at all, he is a total liability and part of the disastrous back four that Nigel Adkins axed to save us from total annihilation. The other one - Hooidonkey is SPL detritus fit only for the championship. These guys should never play again - farm them out to Southend or Brentford. We played some sensational one-touch football and dominted for most of the game. Even the locals sitting next to me were applauding us. Devastating.

Dubai-saints89 wrote:
no sympathy for fax or hooiveld, they will have 1 good game then mess up in the next 5 games. clearly both of them not prem standard.

hooiveld broke records today by scoring the most own goals in a season, u all aware of that right? says it all about him. his terrible performance must surely mean Fonte is back in the picture now! hope so.

Think you are being a bit harsh on Hoover mate, a centreback relies on his full back to communicate behind him, or better still not to recklessly kick the ball at him from 3 yards.
I think Hoover has really stepped up since Fonte has been out, yes he is slow on the turn and makes the odd rash jump in, but he has done us proud and chalk and cheese from our first 10 games.

Our pressing/passing game has been exposed by Alan Pardew, he tactically outwitted our side yesterday with a game plan that will now be copied by other managers.
We were simply, not allowed to dictate the pace.
This was not just an off day when several players under performed, Newcastle were fantastic and Pardew must be given some credit.

costa gaz wrote:
Our pressing/passing game has been exposed by Alan Pardew, he tactically outwitted our side yesterday with a game plan that will now be copied by other managers.
We were simply, not allowed to dictate the pace.
This was not just an off day when several players under performed, Newcastle were fantastic and Pardew must be given some credit.

A fortnight ago our pressing game exposed the weaknesses of ManCity's style of play. That game plan surely would have been a model for the next team that played them. How many did Chelsea win by this week?

Clearly, it's not as simple as that. Newcastle responded to our pressing game by pressing back, keeping players wide, often two or three, to put pressure on Clyne and Shaw, using their players' individual abilities and pace to keep the ball and go past players. They also had a lot of speed on the break, and some rather generous refereeing decisions.

Not every team have the players and a referee that can do that.

IMO, it doesn't matter who is playing at left back, they will struggle with Adam in front of them, he wanders infield and leaves a massive hole for the opposition to attack through. Our goals against has been a lot better since he was out injured. Now he is back the goals against will now rise as he cannot defend to save his life.

Quick to criticise, slow to praise, I have no problem with Hoovers recent contributions, remember he isn't first choice and has done a good job shoring up at the back, but with Fonte and Foren available he may have to take a bench seat again. He had no chance with the OG yesterday, it is unfair to pick on him for that one. Compare that to Barrys clanger, completely different scenario.

ok you could say fox was crap yesterday or just unlucky.but gaston does not fit into the squad he unbalance the whole midfield if he keeps playing we will go down.jwp or punch for me j rod is not showing 7mil either but does run to give lambo a bit of space.people moan n/a got the subs wrong but yesterday m/p got it wrong.just to add for certian people here i dont hate gaston and i dont support portsmouth

Our main problem is our chances to goals ration is so poor. We should have buried Everton, Man Utd, Stoke and Wigan on chances alone but they were all squandered. The Wigan late equaliser was a total sickener - Stoke too after being 3-1 up. So many points slipped away.

This is an interesting thread. I don't agree with all of it but some really good analysis, too (esp SaintlySoul, Christopher and Max early on).

In short, yes, credit to Toon and Pards, although a fairer ref wouldn't have allowed some of their niggling antics. How we had so many bookings and they didn't is beyond me. Note when Clyne got a kicking as he punted into touch; just two players tumbling as they tussled for a 50/50? I don't think so, a deliberate kicking from what I could see; and it wasn't the only one.

The pen? After the Stoke vs Sunderland match and following the 2 correctly NOT given pens - despite the shouts by 50,000 one-eyed Toons - that was always going to be given. I came away wondering when FIFA might change the handball rules and allow players to use any part of their arms up to their wrists as long as it doesn't involve a bent elbow or both arms at the same time. So, no holding the ball, no punching or slapping it, but players can move naturally without risk of a ball-to-hand strike being given against them.

Fox was a bit unlucky; he wasn't cr4p, but isn't the long-term solution either. The problem is, what if we had Buttner (or better), would that limit Shaw's game time and stunt his development? Take JWP, he's not getting games because of Cork and Spiderman.

The toon forwards were a handful all afternoon. I don't see how Jos can be criticised, I thought he was one of our better players on the day. Yos was good, too, although he still needs to improve his distribution. Would I replace either? I don't know. How good is Forren? Has he settled in yet? Only the management team knows that.

Should Punch have started? If so, and Punch had been wasteful (which, despite his brilliant contributions, has been true this season) and the result had been the same, people would have said JayRod or Ramirez should have started. If Adam had been left out and things had been the same, again, people would have questioned that one.

In the end, we have options and the choices Poch makes will not always work. That's football!

Rising_Son wrote:

costa gaz wrote:
Our pressing/passing game has been exposed by Alan Pardew, he tactically outwitted our side yesterday with a game plan that will now be copied by other managers.
We were simply, not allowed to dictate the pace.
This was not just an off day when several players under performed, Newcastle were fantastic and Pardew must be given some credit.

A fortnight ago our pressing game exposed the weaknesses of ManCity's style of play. That game plan surely would have been a model for the next team that played them. How many did Chelsea win by this week?

Clearly, it's not as simple as that. Newcastle responded to our pressing game by pressing back, keeping players wide, often two or three, to put pressure on Clyne and Shaw, using their players' individual abilities and pace to keep the ball and go past players. They also had a lot of speed on the break, and some rather generous refereeing decisions.

Not every team have the players and a referee that can do that.

Understand what you are saying rising-son, but Man City can change their game at will, that's why they are 2nd in the league atm. We sort of shocked city with our game, Newcastle had done their homework and were ready for us.
We just look a bit one dimensional right now.
Still very confident of staying up though.

Jos is in the wrong place at the wrong time too often at this level. Admire his FIGHT in the Dressing Room though.

LET'S GET JOSE FIGHTING FIT FOR ONE OF THE CENTRE BACK POSITIONS ... and for the other Centre Back on the Training Ground MP must decide who is the best fit and get it right ..... NOW !!!

Competition is healthy - let's try our new January signing as a possible fit.

WE ARE SOUTHAMPTON.

Danny Fox should be dropped for now.

RED ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMY
.

WE FIGHT.WE WIN. COYR

Rising_Son wrote:

costa gaz wrote:
Our pressing/passing game has been exposed by Alan Pardew, he tactically outwitted our side yesterday with a game plan that will now be copied by other managers.
We were simply, not allowed to dictate the pace.
This was not just an off day when several players under performed, Newcastle were fantastic and Pardew must be given some credit.

A fortnight ago our pressing game exposed the weaknesses of ManCity's style of play. That game plan surely would have been a model for the next team that played them. How many did Chelsea win by this week?

Clearly, it's not as simple as that. Newcastle responded to our pressing game by pressing back, keeping players wide, often two or three, to put pressure on Clyne and Shaw, using their players' individual abilities and pace to keep the ball and go past players. They also had a lot of speed on the break, and some rather generous refereeing decisions.

Not every team have the players and a referee that can do that.

Very well said, my Son. Newcastle played well, and probably deserved to win a close game. The referee, though, was the most influential person on the pitch. We must beat QPR next week, and it's not going to be easy. What is?

batesieboy wrote:

Rising_Son wrote:

costa gaz wrote:
Our pressing/passing game has been exposed by Alan Pardew, he tactically outwitted our side yesterday with a game plan that will now be copied by other managers.
We were simply, not allowed to dictate the pace.
This was not just an off day when several players under performed, Newcastle were fantastic and Pardew must be given some credit.

A fortnight ago our pressing game exposed the weaknesses of ManCity's style of play. That game plan surely would have been a model for the next team that played them. How many did Chelsea win by this week?

Clearly, it's not as simple as that. Newcastle responded to our pressing game by pressing back, keeping players wide, often two or three, to put pressure on Clyne and Shaw, using their players' individual abilities and pace to keep the ball and go past players. They also had a lot of speed on the break, and some rather generous refereeing decisions.

Not every team have the players and a referee that can do that.

Very well said, my Son. Newcastle played well, and probably deserved to win a close game. The referee, though, was the most influential person on the pitch. We must beat QPR next week, and it's not going to be easy. What is?

Agree - Newcastle played well but didnt outplay us, and the same can be said the other way around.
This game would have been a fair outcome at 2-2 had it not been for a referee not giving a balanced performance and a couple of bad decisions by Saints players.
You rely on your team mates to do their job and communicate with you about yours - when this falls down we let in goals. yesterdays goals were similar to the errors we were making in the first 10 games.

Its obvious we will stay up though..

Ole stains reject 4 - stains messiah 2

the slide is back on track

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I don't agree with all of it but some really good analysis, too (esp SaintlySoul, Christopher and Max early on).

In short, yes, credit to Toon and Pards, although a fairer ref wouldn't have allowed some of their niggling antics. How we had so many bookings and they didn't is beyond me. Note when Clyne got a kicking as he punted into touch; just two players tumbling as they tussled for a 50/50? I don't think so, a deliberate kicking from what I could see; and it wasn't the only one.

The pen? After the Stoke vs Sunderland match and following the 2 correctly NOT given pens - despite the shouts by 50,000 one-eyed Toons - that was always going to be given. I came away wondering when FIFA might change the handball rules and allow players to use any part of their arms up to their wrists as long as it doesn't involve a bent elbow or both arms at the same time. So, no holding the ball, no punching or slapping it, but players can move naturally without risk of a ball-to-hand strike being given against them.

Fox was a bit unlucky; he wasn't cr4p, but isn't the long-term solution either. The problem is, what if we had Buttner (or better), would that limit Shaw's game time and stunt his development? Take JWP, he's not getting games because of Cork and Spiderman.

The toon forwards were a handful all afternoon. I don't see how Jos can be criticised, I thought he was one of our better players on the day. Yos was good, too, although he still needs to improve his distribution. Would I replace either? I don't know. How good is Forren? Has he settled in yet? Only the management team knows that.

Should Punch have started? If so, and Punch had been wasteful (which, despite his brilliant contributions, has been true this season) and the result had been the same, people would have said JayRod or Ramirez should have started. If Adam had been left out and things had been the same, again, people would have questioned that one.

In the end, we have options and the choices Poch makes will not always work. That's football!

Excellent post thank you Strasbourg

i watched the game on a foreign feed and although Cisse took the second goal brilliantly the commentator noted that he was offside.He was offside when the goalie took the freekick, moved to an onside postion and vollied it in with no-one else getting a touch, the lineman was bang in line with Cisse when the freekick was taken so how he missed it i don't know.... Anyway, three points next week and all will be well with the world again !

I think Hooiveld has done very well since Fonte got injured. Couldn't really do anything about having it kicked at him from point blank range.

i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............
....................

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............

....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Five Trophies Between Us wrote:
Ole stains reject 4 - stains messiah 2

the slide is back on track

mug at least we aint bottom of league 1 heading for.................
...... oh wait the conference ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaa

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............


....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Wow, check out the big brain on Brett! If it was just as simple as to look at the next opponents most recent loss and guarantee a win there would be no need to even play the match.

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............


....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Ripped to shreds? That match analysis probably explains why your views are not highly evaluated. Did you actually watch the match?

I watched the game on the net and am disappointed by some of these posts. All our players gave their best: Luke, Adam, Jay, Hoy and Fox, when he came on. The game itself was a good as any you'll see in the premier IMHO and Pardew is right when he says they can aim for tenth. NFC had pace to spare, width, and well-organised defenders who dealt with our play MOSt of the time.
Despite that, we scored two excellent goals and gave away a jammy rebound, a spectacular punt (offside) from someone who has done it before; an unfortunate ball-to-hand which on another day a ref would have ignored and a deflected clearance attempt from our sub left-back who was on because Luke had done a shift against fantastic pace and could easily have got a second yellow.
I feel Poch thought we could do enough, and when Ricky scored to equalise who knew which way it would go? As in the first half we were dominating play for a while.
These things happen...Against lesser teams (and, again, IMHO, most are below NFC in quality now) we will get the wins we deserve.
Keep the faith...

mustard wrote:
i watched the game on a foreign feed and although Cisse took the second goal brilliantly the commentator noted that he was offside.He was offside when the goalie took the freekick, moved to an onside postion and vollied it in with no-one else getting a touch, the lineman was bang in line with Cisse when the freekick was taken so how he missed it i don't know.... Anyway, three points next week and all will be well with the world again !

Agree!

mushrooms wrote:
I think Hooiveld has done very well since Fonte got injured. Couldn't really do anything about having it kicked at him from point blank range.

Agree!

Winman wrote:
I watched the game on the net and am disappointed by some of these posts. All our players gave their best: Luke, Adam, Jay, Hoy and Fox, when he came on. The game itself was a good as any you'll see in the premier IMHO and Pardew is right when he says they can aim for tenth. NFC had pace to spare, width, and well-organised defenders who dealt with our play MOSt of the time.
Despite that, we scored two excellent goals and gave away a jammy rebound, a spectacular punt (offside) from someone who has done it before; an unfortunate ball-to-hand which on another day a ref would have ignored and a deflected clearance attempt from our sub left-back who was on because Luke had done a shift against fantastic pace and could easily have got a second yellow.
I feel Poch thought we could do enough, and when Ricky scored to equalise who knew which way it would go? As in the first half we were dominating play for a while.
These things happen...Against lesser teams (and, again, IMHO, most are below NFC in quality now) we will get the wins we deserve.
Keep the faith...

Agree!

Stras, you're being very agreeable today.

We were never going to win every game.
I thought we could beat NUFC, obviously MP thought so too and that is what we went there to do.
It was a good game and we scored two, not bad. Shame they scored four!
It is never easy supporting Saints is it?

Just watched MOTD and Sants highlights.

According to the panel of 'experts' Newcastle's second goal was only 'technically offside', so that's all right then. The assistant referee couldn't possibly have ruled out the goal because it was so good. Prats! The whistle should have been blown several seconds before the shot was made.

The handball against Fox was harsh because it was obviously unintentional. But according to MOTD the new ruling is that if the arm is in an 'unnatural position', it's an intentional handball. Prats!

Funny how it's OK for the big clubs to get favours from the referee. If such decisions were given against the likes of Man Utd, there'd be a hue and cry from the club and in the media. Sir Alex would be allowed to criticise the referee and get away with it scot free (pardon the pun).

We'll just have to become a 'big club' to get a fair crack of the whip. We're already owed 5 or 6 penalties this season due to bad decisions by referees.

COYR

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I don't agree with all of it but some really good analysis, too (esp SaintlySoul, Christopher and Max early on).

In short, yes, credit to Toon and Pards, although a fairer ref wouldn't have allowed some of their niggling antics. How we had so many bookings and they didn't is beyond me. Note when Clyne got a kicking as he punted into touch; just two players tumbling as they tussled for a 50/50? I don't think so, a deliberate kicking from what I could see; and it wasn't the only one.

The pen? After the Stoke vs Sunderland match and following the 2 correctly NOT given pens - despite the shouts by 50,000 one-eyed Toons - that was always going to be given. I came away wondering when FIFA might change the handball rules and allow players to use any part of their arms up to their wrists as long as it doesn't involve a bent elbow or both arms at the same time. So, no holding the ball, no punching or slapping it, but players can move naturally without risk of a ball-to-hand strike being given against them.

Fox was a bit unlucky; he wasn't cr4p, but isn't the long-term solution either. The problem is, what if we had Buttner (or better), would that limit Shaw's game time and stunt his development? Take JWP, he's not getting games because of Cork and Spiderman.

The toon forwards were a handful all afternoon. I don't see how Jos can be criticised, I thought he was one of our better players on the day. Yos was good, too, although he still needs to improve his distribution. Would I replace either? I don't know. How good is Forren? Has he settled in yet? Only the management team knows that.

Should Punch have started? If so, and Punch had been wasteful (which, despite his brilliant contributions, has been true this season) and the result had been the same, people would have said JayRod or Ramirez should have started. If Adam had been left out and things had been the same, again, people would have questioned that one.

In the end, we have options and the choices Poch makes will not always work. That's football!

So. he.s not the Messiah then.

saintlysoul wrote:

saint christopher wrote:
Agree that not everyone in the current squad could be classed as a good Premiership player. When the team is on top those deficiencies can be hidden but yesterday there were a few cracks appearing. The number of yellow cards also says a lot - players under pressure and getting frustrated.

My biggest concern ever since we got to the Premiership has been our inability to convert pressure and opportunities into shots on target. We keep conceding important goals to players shooting from outside the box but how often do we do that?

The impression I get is that apart from RL at free kicks no one seems to have the ability to hit shots on target from more than 10 yards out which is ridiculous. I may be mistaken on that not seeing them every week but would be interested in other people's views.

I think these are pointsvery well made!

Punch and Morgan can have a good go at distance and Lallana is superb from mid range.

Also, I think you will find Hoover has scored regularly from his own half this season.

Five Trophies Between Us wrote:
Ole stains reject 4 - stains messiah 2

the slide is back on track

Saddo

swesaint wrote:

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............



....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Wow, check out the big brain on Brett! If it was just as simple as to look at the next opponents most recent loss and guarantee a win there would be no need to even play the match.

its wether they got the talent to do it or not

Rising_Son wrote:

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............



....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Ripped to shreds? That match analysis probably explains why your views are not highly evaluated. Did you actually watch the match?

yeah i watched the match and i saw about 15 passes that were played forward by newcastle very quicklt that took 7,8,9 of our players out of the move very quickly n their was 4 on 3, 5 on 2 etc, n we didnt have any plan b after this happended time n time again. look im entitled to my oppinon n that is that the occuring problems we had at the start of the season havent been addressed and i love my club and want it to be the best it can be, i dont want to see us relegated. sorry 4 caring

hates the skates wrote:

Rising_Son wrote:

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............




....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Ripped to shreds? That match analysis probably explains why your views are not highly evaluated. Did you actually watch the match?

yeah i watched the match and i saw about 15 passes that were played forward by newcastle very quicklt that took 7,8,9 of our players out of the move very quickly n their was 4 on 3, 5 on 2 etc, n we didnt have any plan b after this happended time n time again. look im entitled to my oppinon n that is that the occuring problems we had at the start of the season havent been addressed and i love my club and want it to be the best it can be, i dont want to see us relegated. sorry 4 caring

Ah! You watched the highlights on MoTD2 and their asessment! The same assessment that says an offside goal should be allowed because it would be a shame to disallow it! and that it should be allowed because the linesman would have had trouble leaving the ground if he hadn't!

Had you seen the game you would know that we weren't torn to shreds at all, that we dominated the game for longer periods than we were inferior. and that the 4-2 scoreline was no reflection of the match whatsoever!


STID

mack chinnon wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I don't agree with all of it but some really good analysis, too (esp SaintlySoul, Christopher and Max early on).

In short, yes, credit to Toon and Pards, although a fairer ref wouldn't have allowed some of their niggling antics. How we had so many bookings and they didn't is beyond me. Note when Clyne got a kicking as he punted into touch; just two players tumbling as they tussled for a 50/50? I don't think so, a deliberate kicking from what I could see; and it wasn't the only one.

The pen? After the Stoke vs Sunderland match and following the 2 correctly NOT given pens - despite the shouts by 50,000 one-eyed Toons - that was always going to be given. I came away wondering when FIFA might change the handball rules and allow players to use any part of their arms up to their wrists as long as it doesn't involve a bent elbow or both arms at the same time. So, no holding the ball, no punching or slapping it, but players can move naturally without risk of a ball-to-hand strike being given against them.

Fox was a bit unlucky; he wasn't cr4p, but isn't the long-term solution either. The problem is, what if we had Buttner (or better), would that limit Shaw's game time and stunt his development? Take JWP, he's not getting games because of Cork and Spiderman.

The toon forwards were a handful all afternoon. I don't see how Jos can be criticised, I thought he was one of our better players on the day. Yos was good, too, although he still needs to improve his distribution. Would I replace either? I don't know. How good is Forren? Has he settled in yet? Only the management team knows that.

Should Punch have started? If so, and Punch had been wasteful (which, despite his brilliant contributions, has been true this season) and the result had been the same, people would have said JayRod or Ramirez should have started. If Adam had been left out and things had been the same, again, people would have questioned that one.

In the end, we have options and the choices Poch makes will not always work. That's football!

So. he.s not the Messiah then.

No, he's obviously a very naughty boy.

Btw, Mack, I thought of you in the ground, sat as I was amongst the Toon. During the second half, they won a corner and a bloke just behind me said: 'I don't know why everyone's getting so excited, we haven't scored from a corner in more than 2 years.'

It must be a Pardew thing!

st1halo wrote:

hates the skates wrote:

Rising_Son wrote:

hates the skates wrote:

hates the skates wrote:
i have been crucified for months on here with go "go play footie manager" mostly by valleity that danny fox and jos shouldnt be any where near the team and now surprise surprise were two mistakes a peice from being right in the sh!t. fox has no awareness what so ever. as soon for man citys winning goal in the first match of the season. and the team lose a lot of belief when he is in the side n iv lost count of the ammount of own goals jos has scored though he is hardly to blame for this one- that a side the pair have put in 1 good game every 12. and after the own goal the pair just shrugged like they dont give a toss. ill gladly go back n play footie manager for saying i dont want these two ne where near my side. it was too plain to see after the first 5 matches that the pair were out of their depth, every one mocked me for saying that, but all you happy clappers will be surprised to hear as the season drags on players get tired and become worse!!!! not better as you all couldnt wait to share. then we go back to the sheer arogance of NC and his sheer arogance in not strengthing the team not once but twice with his transfer policy. but luckily in all this the attention is deflected from ramirez, another who dont seem to care gets dead legs far to easy, cant last a game and has far to little influence that his price tag suggests. though i have no doubt if we survive next season he will be the player of the premier league. j-rods another who the jurys out on but unlike the other 3 at least seems to care. our saving grace is theirs 4 teams who are worse than us but a couple of dodgy results that that will change fast n unlike us wit the exception of reading the others have the expierience of getting out the situation. no doubt ill get slaughtered again for repeating what i said in october, but hey it goes to show that the club hasnt learnt from their mistakes............





....................

and also we were found out by newcastle far to easy n was ripped to shreds after we were found out, their was no plan b and that worrys me after 15 uninterupted days on the training field. all the remaining sides we have to play will just watch the newcastle game and no how to beat us

Ripped to shreds? That match analysis probably explains why your views are not highly evaluated. Did you actually watch the match?

yeah i watched the match and i saw about 15 passes that were played forward by newcastle very quicklt that took 7,8,9 of our players out of the move very quickly n their was 4 on 3, 5 on 2 etc, n we didnt have any plan b after this happended time n time again. look im entitled to my oppinon n that is that the occuring problems we had at the start of the season havent been addressed and i love my club and want it to be the best it can be, i dont want to see us relegated. sorry 4 caring

Ah! You watched the highlights on MoTD2 and their asessment! The same assessment that says an offside goal should be allowed because it would be a shame to disallow it! and that it should be allowed because the linesman would have had trouble leaving the ground if he hadn't!

Had you seen the game you would know that we weren't torn to shreds at all, that we dominated the game for longer periods than we were inferior. and that the 4-2 scoreline was no reflection of the match whatsoever!


STID

fair enough.

mack chinnon wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:
This is an interesting thread. I don't agree with all of it but some really good analysis, too (esp SaintlySoul, Christopher and Max early on).

In short, yes, credit to Toon and Pards, although a fairer ref wouldn't have allowed some of their niggling antics. How we had so many bookings and they didn't is beyond me. Note when Clyne got a kicking as he punted into touch; just two players tumbling as they tussled for a 50/50? I don't think so, a deliberate kicking from what I could see; and it wasn't the only one.

The pen? After the Stoke vs Sunderland match and following the 2 correctly NOT given pens - despite the shouts by 50,000 one-eyed Toons - that was always going to be given. I came away wondering when FIFA might change the handball rules and allow players to use any part of their arms up to their wrists as long as it doesn't involve a bent elbow or both arms at the same time. So, no holding the ball, no punching or slapping it, but players can move naturally without risk of a ball-to-hand strike being given against them.

Fox was a bit unlucky; he wasn't cr4p, but isn't the long-term solution either. The problem is, what if we had Buttner (or better), would that limit Shaw's game time and stunt his development? Take JWP, he's not getting games because of Cork and Spiderman.

The toon forwards were a handful all afternoon. I don't see how Jos can be criticised, I thought he was one of our better players on the day. Yos was good, too, although he still needs to improve his distribution. Would I replace either? I don't know. How good is Forren? Has he settled in yet? Only the management team knows that.

Should Punch have started? If so, and Punch had been wasteful (which, despite his brilliant contributions, has been true this season) and the result had been the same, people would have said JayRod or Ramirez should have started. If Adam had been left out and things had been the same, again, people would have questioned that one.

In the end, we have options and the choices Poch makes will not always work. That's football!

So. he.s not the Messiah then.

No, he's just a very naughty boy.

ooops. I had not seen that Stras beat me to that one!