How much time do you want Morgan? When we're in League 1? When we're in League 2? When we're playing Eastleigh in the conference South?! Time, unfortunatley, is something we don't really have.

Then again you only need to get through to January then when you're at Arsenal you needn't worry anymore......us fans will still be here to worry though!

With fans like you why the hell would he want to be here?

Must be great to be a player vowing to fight for the club when his fans are not prepared to do the same

Oh no thats fine then. My mistake!!Of course there is nothing I like more than seeing a team I've supported(and my home city)for over 20 years slowing dying!

Silly me. I'm sure they will tear Wolves apart tomorrow and then I'll be made to eat all my words!

I think we can safely let out a rather large sigh with this blatant brainwashing twaddle.

Following your comments on setanta sports and Arsenal i fail to see why you even give a toss about SFC.

Well said Derek we get a young player who has some potential. He is trying to boost all his team mates confidence and as usual we have the negative posters straight in. I would love the Saints to do it quicker but in the CCC the top team could find themselves near relegation after just a few bad results and it's the same for Saints a few good results and we will see a dramatic change in our position.
We have to slightly change the footie tactics to make it more difficult for the opposition and we can grind out some good results with this team. We need to be realists and expect some cruel twists but above all support the team and players like Morgan.
COYR

UTS, it seems he is more bothered than you are about the Saints!!
Even IF he went to Arsenal or somewhere else in January, he is still trying to help the Saints win.
You sir are just 'trying', but keep posting, you make me laugh.

Sorry eveyone I couldn't resist commenting on this article. I'll try to be positive if I can though.
I can understand peoples negative reaction or comments about this story, mainly because as I remember, the Echo was full of similar stories week in week out the season we got relegated. Personally I feel that actions do speak louder than words and we can see that the team talk a very good talk......lets hope its not too long before thay can back it up with the results.
On a positive side though it is refreshing to hear a player come out and say that the team we have now do need to stay together for 2 seasons then maybe we can go up in maybe 3 seasons. Some refreshing honesty. Unlike Wildes statement at the beginning of the season anout how we would be pushing for promotion this season. I think deep down most fans knew we wouldn't be but we all hoped we could be. I hope the board take note of what Morgan is saying in this story and keep the squad the togther, regardless of any offers that come in. It would at least show us more cynical fans that the board are looking to take the club forward and are not just looking keep our heads above water.

Ben280881, I have seen the Saints play in the old Div3 South,we were getting crowds of 14000 then. But of course these were loyal fans.
Funny how we ended up in the Premiership, when teams like the Wolves have never, even though they had a Chairman who spent £100M trying to get them there.

Satellite wrote:
Ben280881, I have seen the Saints play in the old Div3 South,we were getting crowds of 14000 then. But of course these were loyal fans. Funny how we ended up in the Premiership, when teams like the Wolves have never, even though they had a Chairman who spent £100M trying to get them there.

Think you might want to check your research mate!!!!!!!! I remember being at Wolves watching Saints win 4-1 and I'm pretty sure that was a Premiership fixture!!!

I'll be there tomorrow, like I have been all season (I'm still a season ticket holder don't worry!)

As Help the Saints agrees, all we want is actions now words. Last week it was Jan, this week it is Morgan, who will it be next week!?!?

Is he wearing make-up in that photo?

Morgan your a prat! why come out with a load of boll*cks.
IS RUPERT BEHIND THIS LATEST PR BULL-SH*T TO GET THE FANS BACK....

Ben280881 wrote:
How much time do you want Morgan? When we're in League 1? When we're in League 2? When we're playing Eastleigh in the conference South?! Time, unfortunatley, is something we don't really have. Then again you only need to get through to January then when you're at Arsenal you needn't worry anymore......us fans will still be here to worry though!

What on earth are you talking about? It's November. We're only a couple of wins away from being mid-table. We've got absolutely loads of time to improve and Morgan is right to ask fans to be patient. What's particularly encouraging is that if he's talking about next season and the season after, then that's clearly the talk in the dressing room and the directors office, which shows a long term vision that is particularly welcome.

It's also, dare I say it, encouraging for the English game that Southampton are bringing so many kids forward. I know we're not in it to be altruistic, but if more clubs would follow our lead then we'd stand a much better chance of winning world cups.

O, and the security words are 'blue-lose'. I'll drink to that.

They are bringing the kids through to sell in January. Why can't people see that. We are a doomed club at the moment with no light at the end of the tunnel. We need change, and change now before it is too late. Drop another league and its good night SFC. It pains me every week when i shell out for my ticket and watch the garbage. People keep saying we are playing good football but it is negative with hardly any end product. Its easy to knock it about and go nowhere. The other teams have got our number now and the slip will continue to happen and the gap to safety will increase. I hope i am proved wrong but at the moment come feb when the players have been sold turn off the lights.

Ben, nobody is saying we are going to win against Wolves, but whatever the result surely we stick by the players and support the team. These kids did not all ask to be thrown into this mess, but now they are there and running their legs off they need us to back them - not make snide comments.

UTS - predictable trash

Court Jester - Absolutely right. I cannot be instant success and if we just hold on to ChaMpionship status this season I will be delighted given the almost impossible task these kids have been set. Sometimes hard to work out the mentality of people who in one breath, call our kids rubbish and say they cannot make it, and in the next say that top teams are already in for our kids and therefore Lowe will do the usual and offload them come January. These people seem only to either look for, or make up, their own negatives. I do not think Jan is a fool and eventually through trial and error will settle on a system that works. That system almost certainly see him playing two up front when it is merited.

Satellite - you know that we share views over who, or what, is UTS

Help the Saints - yep, I think that anyone looking at the team and the players we now have would have to accept that we aint going up this season. The same people were saying this though at the start of the season because it was obvious, but we were prepared to accept it. It may take two or three seasons, but the crux of the situation is that we must find a pattern of play, and try and establish a squad of players who can play that system. That is why it is vitally important to keep the bulk of these players together, and that is why we should be working our butts off trying to encourage them to stay. Not filling websites with doom and gloom and continually pouring scorn on the Board.

Loweandbehold and Ben - you guys cannot be for real. If the pages of the Echo don't have a word from anyone at the Club, then that is wrong and it is all down to Lowe, and when we get articles from players it is crap, and all down to Lowe. Wake up and try and see if there is just one little thing that happens at this club that you cannot twist to be Lowe's fault. Oh I keep forgetting, you guys have super powers andknow everything that goes on within the club

Good grief

St Retford - as ever, someone who says it like it is and is obviously a fan OF THE TEAM

Refreshing to have one of the players give clear signals to the fans that squad are training hard, working together and that the frustration is reciprocated by them when results don't go our way.

While I agree that Lowe's policy on using the academy as a mismanaged slosh fund is crippling the club, and because of this I have been going to SMS much less this season, there appears to be nothing else that I can do about it for the time being.

This is why I shall be at SMS tomorrow and cheering the lads on.

Come on you Saints

Unfortunately Morgan a small but vociforous section of our fanbase our dim-witted bed-wetting whingers who like nothing better than moaning and are too stupid to understand that you cant turn a club round overnight.
Ignore them and hopefully they will eventually clear off and support Portsmuff.

Any recommendations for Chairmen form those who want Lowe out (and I presume Wilde as well)?
Always good not to keep banging on about the same thing unless you have a solution. Trant anyone? Isn't it funny how no one mentions him? On one hand you could say it's his fault for letting Burley purchase all those players on high wages, on the other you could say the gamble nearly paid off with promotion.

Some decent comments and well thought out ideas. Hooray to the three of you. Lets have loads more now

Keep the faith

Just what do you want a player to say before a game?

"Oh! We're all doomed"; "We're useless" or perhaps "Oh! Well, I'm certainly off to Arsenal in the winter break. After all everyone who posts on the Daily Echo website says the Saints are rubbish, so why should I want stay there"?

We will be travelling down from the Midlands in the company of Wolves tomorrow. I see the bookies rate them as evens, which I must say is suuprising knowing the firepower of Iwelumo, Ebaks-Blake and Kightly and the fagility of our defence.

And yet! And yet, I've seen upsets before. So whilst, I'm not exactly looking forward to my return up the A34/M40, and the thought of going into my local for a pint even less.

But I am a Saints Supporter. That's what I do. Support the Saints.

You tell a good story Exiled Saint, and I have to say that more and more of the real fans are having their say. I know the knockers and the doubters and the gloom and doom boys will have some good reasons why they are now becoming the minority on theis site and will probably chuck in some really naughty words - but facts speak for themselves.

Not really in to conspiracy theories, but how about this one for size. All the really stupid, annoying, ridiculous and boring Anti Lowe Brigade posts are actually form one man. He is a shop steward lefty from Pompey and he just gets on here under various names in an effort to divide this fan base..

A message for you mate. There are far too many real fans down here who keep the faith. Fans who think the kids are great, and just want to be able to go and watch them working their socks off each week for the red and white shirt.

You are not wanted here and you will not ultimately bring down this great club, and if we do succeed, it will be done on a shoestring not by huge investments that still seem to see you hugely in debt

Satellite wrote:
Ben280881, I have seen the Saints play in the old Div3 South,we were getting crowds of 14000 then. But of course these were loyal fans. Funny how we ended up in the Premiership, when teams like the Wolves have never, even though they had a Chairman who spent £100M trying to get them there.

Wolves never in the prem, who making who laugh.

Please seperate fact from your fantasy vision of football!

Well done Saint another example of how you lot just churn out the same stuff over and over again - this point was made by Ben earlier., and how like you to sieze on the one thing that was wrong with his post. What about some sensible comments on the rest of the piece. So the man made a mistake on one bit of what he wrote, but I think the the rest of us appreciated exactly the point he was making. This one small mistake does not at all detract from what he was saying

I am 100% in agreement that Rupert Lowe has destroyed our club.
I have been a seasonticket holder for over 20 years, and will continue to do so. During the 90mins I will passionately support the boys. I hope Lowe leaves as soon as possible. I can completely understand why people don't go. It sticks in my throat that I am paying to see last years youth team. I don't trust Lowe and Wilde to have our interests at heart. We are in this position due to chronic mismanagement during both Lowe's times at the club. I feel sorry for Jan, who seems a good guy, but with an absolute mountain to climb and a poisonous boardroom and directorship pairing.
I have never felt so helpless about the club I love.

Derek
I'm feeling more positive today after a 22-hour day yesterday, and not a mention of Lowe.
But here we are hours away from another chapter that is SFC, and the *****ng still goes on!
I have had another response from Mr Luker...

Police costs would far exceed what you would expect.

Shutting the corners was a measure that wasn’t taken lightly, and we knew it wouldn’t be a measure that would receive widespread support. I can tell from your email that you are unhappy with this and The Club in general, and I am sorry you feel this way.

The Club will not only have to continue with its current cost cutting measures, but it is likely that we will have to continue to find other ways of saving money.

Should any part of the ground be re-opened, anyone can transfer their ticket to this at anytime.

Best wishes

David

So for all you that got their hopes up of a return to the heady days of having atmosphere generated from other parts that The Northam...dream on.

Something died inside me months ago and it was a passion for the club. Yeah I like to come on here and rant on endlessly, put up a few choice ideas, and not agree with many of you. Perhaps we the fans get the club back on the right footing, I might be allowed to re-ignite my passion. However until then I shall remain a miserable old g*t, so on Saturday my mood stays constant!

Derek of Holbury wrote:
Well done Saint another example of how you lot just churn out the same stuff over and over again - this point was made by Ben earlier., and how like you to sieze on the one thing that was wrong with his post. What about some sensible comments on the rest of the piece. So the man made a mistake on one bit of what he wrote, but I think the the rest of us appreciated exactly the point he was making. This one small mistake does not at all detract from what he was saying

Get off you high horse Derek.

Infact alot of statements he makes are wrong, and the point being made is not to live in fantsy/romantic football.

Good for you Derek for you if you appreciate the point he is making, not all do as you suggest, and if you look closer or remove your blinkers you will see this.

It is you who is jumping on me to make yourself look good, and not really reading what I said, For the record I do not churn the same old stuff out. That implys I do not use my brain and I am repetitive! Trying to look clever, dose not make you clever.

I may not agree with him, though I do repect him as a Saints fan. We are all intitled to have our own opinions, even if they differ. You should remenber this when you want to try and put someone down in their place, to make yourself look cool!

How much time do you need? 16 games played and just 16 points to show for it...god only knows if we had not won away when we have then we would be bottom. Our Home form is totally shocking this season and this has to stop as we play 4-5-1 when we should be playinf 4-4-2, hope BWP starts tommorrow as we need his runs and threat in front of goal as we were lacking that against Bristol last week until he came on also hope Pearce doesn't play as his lapses cost us dearly, Perry must start!! also Euell and not Gobern as he looked out of his depth on the wing.

COYR!

UTS wrote:
I think we can safely let out a rather large sigh with this blatant brainwashing twaddle. Following your comments on setanta sports and Arsenal i fail to see why you even give a toss about SFC.

You are becoming a very boring person/tw@t. I am not particularly happy at recent events at our club and have at times thought about throwing in the towel. I have also stated several times that out prices are over priced and they are, but I yes I am going tomorrow. Why? because I am a Saints fan and I can't get it out of my system. From the Archers to the family centre to the milton to the east stand terrace(grew up then) to st marys I just can't let go. We are not a good team at the moment and are unlikely to be with our present set-up. Sorry Kate and Derek but I haven't got your rose tinted spectacles. Survival would be at best a miracle this season but come what may I will never cease to be a Saints fan. (just drop those bloody ticket prices L***)

Dave Rickets 1988 Sharja
Are you with us?
Wolves could be going up this year but we have to beat our bogey team.
Choueifat best wishes

One question fellow saints fans,If our circus of a club do lower ticket prices what sort of message do`es that send to all our loyal season ticket holders who paid double the amount per game for their undying loyalty

Derek of Holbury wrote:
Ben, nobody is saying we are going to win against Wolves, but whatever the result surely we stick by the players and support the team. These kids did not all ask to be thrown into this mess, but now they are there and running their legs off they need us to back them - not make snide comments. UTS - predictable trash Court Jester - Absolutely right. I cannot be instant success and if we just hold on to ChaMpionship status this season I will be delighted given the almost impossible task these kids have been set. Sometimes hard to work out the mentality of people who in one breath, call our kids rubbish and say they cannot make it, and in the next say that top teams are already in for our kids and therefore Lowe will do the usual and offload them come January. These people seem only to either look for, or make up, their own negatives. I do not think Jan is a fool and eventually through trial and error will settle on a system that works. That system almost certainly see him playing two up front when it is merited. Satellite - you know that we share views over who, or what, is UTS Help the Saints - yep, I think that anyone looking at the team and the players we now have would have to accept that we aint going up this season. The same people were saying this though at the start of the season because it was obvious, but we were prepared to accept it. It may take two or three seasons, but the crux of the situation is that we must find a pattern of play, and try and establish a squad of players who can play that system. That is why it is vitally important to keep the bulk of these players together, and that is why we should be working our butts off trying to encourage them to stay. Not filling websites with doom and gloom and continually pouring scorn on the Board. Loweandbehold and Ben - you guys cannot be for real. If the pages of the Echo don't have a word from anyone at the Club, then that is wrong and it is all down to Lowe, and when we get articles from players it is crap, and all down to Lowe. Wake up and try and see if there is just one little thing that happens at this club that you cannot twist to be Lowe's fault. Oh I keep forgetting, you guys have super powers andknow everything that goes on within the club Good grief St Retford - as ever, someone who says it like it is and is obviously a fan OF THE TEAM

Derek, you say "Court Jester - Absolutely right. I cannot be instant success"

I cannot be? Typo or revealing your true identity?

Might explain why you steer clear of talking about football and tactics.

God forbid you should accidentally mention the game is started with a bully off.

St.Yorkie wrote:
Derek
I'm feeling more positive today after a 22-hour day yesterday, and not a mention of Lowe.
But here we are hours away from another chapter that is SFC, and the *****ng still goes on!
I have had another response from Mr Luker...

Police costs would far exceed what you would expect.

Shutting the corners was a measure that wasn’t taken lightly, and we knew it wouldn’t be a measure that would receive widespread support. I can tell from your email that you are unhappy with this and The Club in general, and I am sorry you feel this way.

The Club will not only have to continue with its current cost cutting measures, but it is likely that we will have to continue to find other ways of saving money.

Should any part of the ground be re-opened, anyone can transfer their ticket to this at anytime.

Best wishes

David

So for all you that got their hopes up of a return to the heady days of having atmosphere generated from other parts that The Northam...dream on.

Something died inside me months ago and it was a passion for the club. Yeah I like to come on here and rant on endlessly, put up a few choice ideas, and not agree with many of you. Perhaps we the fans get the club back on the right footing, I might be allowed to re-ignite my passion. However until then I shall remain a miserable old g*t, so on Saturday my mood stays constant!

Wonderful logic. This is the man who encourages fans to boycott St Mary's and then complains because the Club closes down some seats to save money. I try not to be dragged down to personal abuse but the words "plonker" and "sad" come to mind.

So, tomorrow we have circa. 15,000 crowd, say 3,000 Wolves fan = 12,000 Southampton supporters and somewhere between 1 and 15,000 glory hunters missing who only want to see Man U and Arsenal; and somewhere between 15,000 and 1 who "on principle", want to see Saints relegated on the bizarre and irrelevant basis that they don’t like the Chairman of the Board. Thanks folks, what wonderful supporters, the "Spirit of Southampton" . We should all hang our heads in shame to be associated with such people.

the ref wrote:
One question fellow saints fans,If our circus of a club do lower ticket prices what sort of message do`es that send to all our loyal season ticket holders who paid double the amount per game for their undying loyalty

A message that the club has finally woken up to the fact that there is a bloody big recession going on and that they are overcharging for this league. it's also known as supply and demand. When we were in the prem and sold out every game, there were touts outside selling tickets above face price because the demand was there. The demand is no longer there so prices fall. And how have you paid double. the most expensive season ticket is £500 which is approx £21.70 a ticket. Saints are reducing it to £15 for one game only at the moment. Hardly half of your price is it. Stop moaning about paying up front, your choice.

Derek of Holbury, you deride and chide others for having an alternative opinion to yours particulalrly when it isn't the nice cosy rose tinted view that you wish to maintain about Saints.

You say you wish to have a debate so lets have one and before you go off on a fanstasy whirl I am not a left from Pompey using numerous none de plumes to populate this website I am a saints fan who has an alternative view to yours so lets have a debate and here it is;

Now I know you and I will never reach an agreement on our chairman so lets park that to one side and discuss the team which you seem so impassioned about.

Do you not feel that these lads who are being asked to do mans job have been thrown into the lions den too early?

If not, how would you measure there progress and what would you call a successful season?

Lowes Nemisis wrote:
Derek of Holbury, you deride and chide others for having an alternative opinion to yours particulalrly when it isn't the nice cosy rose tinted view that you wish to maintain about Saints. You say you wish to have a debate so lets have one and before you go off on a fanstasy whirl I am not a left from Pompey using numerous none de plumes to populate this website I am a saints fan who has an alternative view to yours so lets have a debate and here it is; Now I know you and I will never reach an agreement on our chairman so lets park that to one side and discuss the team which you seem so impassioned about. Do you not feel that these lads who are being asked to do mans job have been thrown into the lions den too early? If not, how would you measure there progress and what would you call a successful season?

You're wasting your time trying to get Derek to debate football. I've been trying to get him to do the same for the last few days, but he ain't interested.

He claims to be a supporter yet doesn't want to engage in debate on tactics, team selection or the use of experienced players.
How strange is that?

He wouldn't answer my direct question as to whether or not he thinks we are better placed to avoid relegation by ignoring experienced players.

I can understand why he won't answer, though.
If he says we need more experienced players, then he will feel disloyal to Lowe and JP, but if he says we should stick with kids, and we get relegated, well it will show he was wrong.

If you go back to the start of the season, when Lowe was getting lambasted on this site, there were 3 or 4 regular contributors who very eloquently derided and ridiculed those who were against Lowe, posting comments in support of each other, but never engaging in talking tactics or things football.

Many people believed they were Lowe's PR people, trying to further split the fans.

Is Derek a PR plant or just a very passionate supporter of Saints (& Lowe), who for whatever reason will not discuss or debate football?

Only a few people will know, but if he is a PR plant, I hope he is not being funded by club money.

I think you may be right Costa Baz I will direcly ask him again and see whether we can illicit a debate from Derek!!

Let's cheer them on!
Let's pack SMS!
Let's make them open the Itchen North by turning out!
Let's give Rupert a free hand for another 10-years!
Lets!
Lets!
Lets!

Sorry but I am not sorry for wanting a boycott at SMS. The only thing business people undestand is money. We are treated like customers - not supporters so if I don't like the dividends, I don't invest. Lowe will not walk - even though his 6% seems to give him a controlling factor. What about the other 94%?

Infighting between ourselves shows what a good job he has done. Managers can be replaced, but fans cannot! Mr Lowe shows utter contempt for all you loyal fans who support the team! YES Lowe's team, not Jan's!

I wonder what Mr Lowe did today? I wonder if he went out of his way to find some investment for our club? HE doesn't want outside investment as it will signal the end of his control over the club. D'you know what the coffee is smelling pretty **** good from here.

Oh dear Saint, I seemed to have touched a nerve. Said many times before that you are entitled to your opinnion. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but when I do dare to challenge your opinion you get all uppity. Now, please explain where I was getting on my high horse. You say he made lots of errors, but you do not choose to highlight them, so I can only mention the one that you did.

Oh wow Costa Baz, that was really smart of you to pick up on my typo. Could it be you are clutching at straws to try and have ago at what I am really saying. Your mention of "bully off" was also immensely clever and amusing, but I have to say your mention of me not talking tactics and football is a way off the mark. Perhaps this is yet again you being selective in which pieces you read. I have stated numerous times that we are playing with kids who at times are out of their depth, however I have said also that they play at times with great skill. I have discussed the return of Svensson and also that we do seem to have a problem at the back and in particular with a lack of experience. Only recently I discussed the possibility of playing Surman back at left back with Skacel pushing on and have also mentioned that we should be using two up front when it is merited.

Now, where exactly is it I do not discuss football or tactics? Could it be that because I don't just talk the negative aspects of the game and tactics that you do not notice when I discuss it.

Lowes Nemesis - Oh dear another much maligned chap who is always being got at. Again - you have you views and I have mine. They do not have to agree, but be big enough to accept that if I do not happen to agree with your view I can challenge them. Be big enough also to accept that not everything that comes out of your mouth is correct. I will accept a challenge on any of my views, but I won't come back squinnying just because you oppose me. If it is not personal, aggressive or stupid I will be quite happy to listen to your viewpoint and answer your questions.

Now, how do I answer your questions without upsetting you or giving you reason to believe I am chiding or deriding you. A difficult one as you appear to be quite a sensitive chap.

I really do not know how to answer the one about the lads being thrown in too early in a way you will understand. I am not being sarcastic here, but I have answered this one so many times before. However, I will try again. Yes, under normal circumstances I would not have wanted all these lads to have been thrown into the first team. They are too young and too inexperienced. I believe they have shown that they are extremely talented, and at times displayed some excellent football skills , but they do need experience around them to help them survive, and also to progress their game.

I have also discussed numerous times this season how I feel they have progressed. Again I say they have shown great talent and displayed at times some excellent football, but they are never going to win many games in this division because of the way the opposition play. They need more experience around them and they should not be making up the bulk of the team each week. Your final point is yet again one that I have mentioned several times and concerns what I feel will be a successful season. If we can hang on (and it is without doubt a difficult ask) to our Championship status, that would be a magnificent performance in my book. This is not something I am just saying now, as anyone who knows me will testify I was saying before a ball was kicked that if we stave off relegation this season and keep the majority of these kids together we will be able to come back next season and perhaps mount a challenge for promotion. I have been saying for months that it would take us at least two to three seasons to be in with a chance of promotion.

What I have also been saying over and over again is that we have had no choice with the kids because with all the other players gone they are pretty much all we have left to use. That is not in question - it is fact.

So, to take this debate one step further, perhaps you can answer just one question from me. It is a question I have asked you before, and Cotsa Baz, and UTS and the silence has been deafening.

You all at some time or other have bemoaned the fact that we are using these kids or that they are not good enough, or that we need to use experienced players. What alternative was there. You may not have liked the fact that Lowe has got rid of all the high wage earners, but he has had to do it.

My question to all of you then is, were you in charge instead of Lowe at the start of the season - what would you have done

Derek
I'll answer your question.
If I were in charge I would get a football man in to run the club. However I would employ a financial wizard, and leave team matters and training to the Manager/Head Coach.
More importantly I would be working with the police and community to get crowds in. I would get rid of all the hangers on, and appeal to local businesses by showing them we were in the business of results - and in football that means winning. Not just games, but in the community, and getting back to being the friendly club we once were.
Ideals perhaps but it would be a start. I wouldn't ahve closed the corners - but The Chapel would have been closed - or parts of the Kingsland. Especially as the cameras pan from the Kingsland a fuller ground would be an illusion.
Every home game would have concessions for the youngsters in Southampton - chavs and all!
I would get rid of half the stewards who seem to be on an ego trip, reduce the levels of policing - when was the last time we had trouble at SMS?
I would invite people with money to invest and be made to feel welcome on a matchday experience. We have a great club - but it is rotten to the core inside the corridors of SMS - hence who'd want to invest in that?
So there you go Derek - anyone with a brain could have done better than Lowe since his return. Just because Lowe says there is no money or investment we all bow down and do nothing...well not me and a few others who contribute to this forum.

derek fo holbury wrote:
Oh dear Saint, I seemed to have touched a nerve. Said many times before that you are entitled to your opinnion. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it, but when I do dare to challenge your opinion you get all uppity. Now, please explain where I was getting on my high horse. You say he made lots of errors, but you do not choose to highlight them, so I can only mention the one that you did. Oh wow Costa Baz, that was really smart of you to pick up on my typo. Could it be you are clutching at straws to try and have ago at what I am really saying. Your mention of "bully off" was also immensely clever and amusing, but I have to say your mention of me not talking tactics and football is a way off the mark. Perhaps this is yet again you being selective in which pieces you read. I have stated numerous times that we are playing with kids who at times are out of their depth, however I have said also that they play at times with great skill. I have discussed the return of Svensson and also that we do seem to have a problem at the back and in particular with a lack of experience. Only recently I discussed the possibility of playing Surman back at left back with Skacel pushing on and have also mentioned that we should be using two up front when it is merited. Now, where exactly is it I do not discuss football or tactics? Could it be that because I don't just talk the negative aspects of the game and tactics that you do not notice when I discuss it. Lowes Nemesis - Oh dear another much maligned chap who is always being got at. Again - you have you views and I have mine. They do not have to agree, but be big enough to accept that if I do not happen to agree with your view I can challenge them. Be big enough also to accept that not everything that comes out of your mouth is correct. I will accept a challenge on any of my views, but I won't come back squinnying just because you oppose me. If it is not personal, aggressive or stupid I will be quite happy to listen to your viewpoint and answer your questions. Now, how do I answer your questions without upsetting you or giving you reason to believe I am chiding or deriding you. A difficult one as you appear to be quite a sensitive chap. I really do not know how to answer the one about the lads being thrown in too early in a way you will understand. I am not being sarcastic here, but I have answered this one so many times before. However, I will try again. Yes, under normal circumstances I would not have wanted all these lads to have been thrown into the first team. They are too young and too inexperienced. I believe they have shown that they are extremely talented, and at times displayed some excellent football skills , but they do need experience around them to help them survive, and also to progress their game. I have also discussed numerous times this season how I feel they have progressed. Again I say they have shown great talent and displayed at times some excellent football, but they are never going to win many games in this division because of the way the opposition play. They need more experience around them and they should not be making up the bulk of the team each week. Your final point is yet again one that I have mentioned several times and concerns what I feel will be a successful season. If we can hang on (and it is without doubt a difficult ask) to our Championship status, that would be a magnificent performance in my book. This is not something I am just saying now, as anyone who knows me will testify I was saying before a ball was kicked that if we stave off relegation this season and keep the majority of these kids together we will be able to come back next season and perhaps mount a challenge for promotion. I have been saying for months that it would take us at least two to three seasons to be in with a chance of promotion. What I have also been saying over and over again is that we have had no choice with the kids because with all the other players gone they are pretty much all we have left to use. That is not in question - it is fact. So, to take this debate one step further, perhaps you can answer just one question from me. It is a question I have asked you before, and Cotsa Baz, and UTS and the silence has been deafening. You all at some time or other have bemoaned the fact that we are using these kids or that they are not good enough, or that we need to use experienced players. What alternative was there. You may not have liked the fact that Lowe has got rid of all the high wage earners, but he has had to do it. My question to all of you then is, were you in charge instead of Lowe at the start of the season - what would you have done

Now that I have got your attention, let me first answer the question you pose in the penultimate paragraph of yet another of your lengthy missives.

Your quote is "You all at some time or other have bemoaned the fact that we are using these kids or that they are not good enough, or that we need to use experienced players. What alternative was there. You may not have liked the fact that Lowe has got rid of all the high wage earners, but he has had to do it."

Let's start with the obvious.

What evidence do you have to prove that releasing all the experienced players and just using kids is the only way Lowe could have dealt with our alleged financial problems?

Do you have first hand knowledge of how good or bad our finances are?
Have you attended the meetings between Lowe & the bank, sat in on board meetings, or had access to the latest accounts, or are you just CHOOSING to believe what Lowe & Wilde have told you?

An experienced goal scorer, Stern John, has recently been released for being allegedly a high earner. Do you think that was a wise financial move given the fact that we are now paying the wages of 2 totally unproven, inexperienced & young strikers, Robertson & Pekhart, whilst they warm the bench?
Wouldn't it make more financial sense to pay one player who is capable of scoring 20 goals a season, rather than pay 2 who have no pedigree at any level?
Do you actually know if John's sole wage was actually greater than the combined wages of Robertson & Pekhart?
If John did have to go, do you know for a fact that we could not afford to bring in a more mature loan player that actually does have some experience and a proven goal scoring record at CCC level?

Face facts Derek, you know nothing more about SFC's finances than anyone else, outside of the priviliged few (the board & the bank).
YOU choose to believe the board is being on the level with you, whereas others choose to believe the board, as they have done in the past, may be misleading the supporters, as to just how bad things are.
Why would they do that? Maybe because Lowe wants to show much he knows about football and the value of the academy, by playing all the kids?
I have said previously, on various forums, that Lowe is a gambler, when it comes to his chairmanship of SFC, as has been proven by his record of employing so many sub-standard managers, managers he thought IMO he could manipulate.
Many supporters believed he chose young & inexperienced managers so that he might influence their decisions, when picking the squad and starting eleven.
He is now employing someone who was so desperate to manage in the UK, that he paid off his own contract, and is subserviently trotting out the same guff as the board.

If you listened to Dave Bassetts comments, about Lowe trying to coerce Redknapp into picking kids every game, then even you should harbour some doubts as to what Lowe's intentions are.

In response to your final paragraph "My question to all of you then is, were you in charge instead of Lowe at the start of the season - what would you have done"

Before the season started I suggested that if the squad had to be trimmed then it would be more sensible to build a squad to include 6 or 7 experienced players & play the youngsters around them. I said from Day 1 that playing more than 4 or 5 kids in the team, week in, week out, would be an almighty gamble that could see us lose more games than we won.
I also suggested that if we could afford to pay 200k per week (for example) on wages, I would rather pay it to 20 decent players than 30 players that weren't up to standard or were not ready for the CCC.
I would have sought out a British manager, with some experience, who understands how the game is played in this country & how to use the loan system to bring in the right players at the right time, not bring in the wrong players just because they are young.
IMO the manager should be the single most important man at the club, when dealing with football matters. His word should be law when dictating the make up of his squad, although he should work in unison with his chairman to ensure the best deal is made.
Unfortunately I don't think Lowe understands just how important the manager is. IMO, in his world of business, the boards tend to dictate to the managers how their company is to be run, but it doesn't work like that in football.

If when the relevant accounts are released, it is proven that Lowe had no option but to take these actions, then I will put my hands up and admit I was wrong, but until that happens I will choose to believe that he is doing what he is doing for his own personal reasons.
Equally, if I am right I would hope you would be man enough to admit you were wrong.

Thank you for your equally long missive, but at least it has some sensible points and a base for debate.

I would like to state at the outset that neither of us at this time is in possession of all the facts, but would also like to point out that this is not just a Lowe thing, as you will find this operates in all businesses. Some things have to be declared and made available at certain times by law, and we will both then know how much that is being said now is actually true. My only hope is when that happens we are both respectful and honest enough to finally accept it, without believing there has been some sort of spin put on the facts.

Where I think we differ is the glass half full against the glass half empty syndrome.

You, for whatever reason (and I am not prepared to accuse or get into speculation over the reasons) choose to disbelieve and mistrust everything that Lowe either says or does not say, At this moment in time I prefer to accept what he is saying until such time as it is proven he is either lying, or in some way fabricating the truth.

You asked me how I know about the finances and if I was privvy to the information about the state of our current financial position, when you know full well that I am not. I only know from the information that has been released from the club, which included trading reports at the start of Lowes new tenure, and these were verified by accountants. This information I feel it is safe to accept. It does not take a mathematician though to work out in rough terms that we are in a mess financially. Parachute payments a thing of the past, little TV revenue, very little in gate money from cup games, a long list of players on huge earnings (these were also verified) and ever decreasing attendance figures - not to mention the credit crunch.

You mention Stern John, and no I do not know what his wage was, but I think I am permitted here to assume it would have been fairly substancial. It is my personal opinion, and you obviously do not share it, but I do not feel this season that he displayed anything that would have made me sorry he went. He stepped onto the field with both legs strapped up to the hilt, and pretty much was a spectator in the games he did play. I suppose the proof of the pudding will be his scoring record for his new club at the end of the season.

Again, like you I do not know what the two players (supposedly brought in to take his place) will be earning, and again it is my opinion, but I would hazzard a guess that collectively it is much less that John's was. Again, just like you I have so far been disapponted with their performances and the amount of time on the field, and have to say they may have been mistakes, but time will tell.

You asked me if it would not be better to have one striker capable of scoring 20 goals a season rather than the two untried guys we have got in, and yet one more time I would agree with you in principle - but again I have to say that I do not believe that man would have been John this season. He scored what he did last season due to the players around him and the system we played. I do not know if he played every game this season with all the kids around him he would have scored any goals - and neither do you.

You asked about bringing in a more mature loan player - no I do not honestly know if that would have worked, but I do know almost certainly it would have been more expensive than what we have now. Do you know we could have attracted such a player when he knew he would be coming into a team full of kids? I can just visualise all the vulchers waiting for this older statesman to come in and fail before they swooped to pick off Lowe for bringing in a has been. You will have to agree with me that the man is in a no win situation.

You tell me that I do not know any more about the finances at the club than anyone else, and here again I am having to agree with you because it is fact. Your argument then breaks down because you start to do what all Anti Lowe campaigners do - you start to suggest and guess at what the man is doing or why he is doing it. "maybe he wants to show that he knows" and "value of the academy" etc. You lose so much credibility when you start including your thoughts about what you think he may be doing and why, and including the line that starts with "many people think" does not do you any favours either. You cannot possibly prove what many people think unless they all support some kind of poll.

As for Dave bassett - I have not heard or read his interview so it would not be appropriate for me to comment on it. What I will say is that I feel the man had and axe to grind, and that it is so easy for words to be taken out of context. Even if every single reportedly said in the interview were exactly as he said them, it could be argued that the meaning was not quite as he intended it. Again I will say it - that was then, and this is now. What happened in Lowes first tenure does not really interest me too much now as I am only really interested in what is happening now, and most of that interest is actually focussed on the team. If that makes me somehow an inadequate supporter in your eyes I am sorry, but that is how I am. You say that before the season started you said the season had to be trimmed by six or seven experienced players. Again, neither of us has that inside information on the financial status of the club, so how can you possibly guess on either how many players would have to go, or could be afforded. That is just making a blind judgement. I say that IF the finances are as bad as Lowe has told us, then he had no alternative other than to do what he did. If you had those same problems and took your idea to the bank it just would not have been acceptable.

I really cannot follow your logic about the twenty decent players. First, even if we had the money, where would you get these plauyers -and who would they be? My maths suggest that these players would be on £10k each - wasn't BWP on more than that a week, and what decent player would you get these days for that amount.

It is crass of you to say that the current management team wanted to get into British football so much he bought out his own contract. His own version was that he wanted to come to Saints so much he bought out his own contract To suggest otherwise would be guessing - unless of course you had some inside information

You said you would have sought out a good British mamager. Quite apart from the fact that we have had a few of those in the past recent years, and we are in a mess, where dou you think we would have got one. Don't you think that numerous other clubs in the Championship and Premier League with far more money than us are looking for the same thing. Again - I have to say I am accepting of what Lowe says at the present, and that we are rally as broke as he suggests.

I agree with you that the manager must be the most important man at the club and should have total responsibility for selecting tactics and who should play, and also putting up his list to the board of players he would want to bring in (money permitting). I have no reason to suspect, and no eveidence to prove, this is not currently the case at SFC. Nor do you, and to suggest anything other than this (without inside information) is just speculation and guesswork

I do not feel that we are any futher along in term of agreeing with each others beliefs or views, but at least we are connected in a reasonable debate without the need for mudslinging or name calling. As much as I cannot accept all of your views I am more than happy to accept that you have he right to have them.

Without doubt I would be a man of honour and agree that you were correct and I was wrong if some time at a later date it was proven to be the case. I also have no doubt at all that you would do exactly the same thing

You're right in saying we will never see eye to eye, so I won't bother taking all your comments on, one by one, my time is too precious.

I would suggest, however that you proof read your future comments to remove the hypocritical statements you make.
For example, you criticise me for speculating as to what Lowe might wish to prove etc, yet in the next paragraph you speculate that Dave Bassett had an axe to grind.

Perhaps it is only those who support Lowes presence at SFC that are allowed to speculate?
Whoops done it again haven't I.

You also took me to task for suggesting JP was so keen to come to the UK he paid up his own contract in Holland. You say he did it to come to the Saints. Now maybe I've missed something here, but when we were relegated from the Premier League were we also removed from the UK?

Best of luck with your campaign to clear this forum of everyone who disagrees with you.