First defeat in 21 years to Wolves. Jan you are breaking all records this season. How many times are we getting beaten at StMary's this season is a joke!!!!!!

Jan I wish you would go, as you are surely going to take us down. Turn coat Wilde and Lowe you should hang your heads in shame and go too!

Unlucky lads after a battling performance in the second half but you have to take your chaing with chances especially when playing with 10 men.
This leds on to the referees diabolical performance as he showed no common sense when booking Surman and Skacel for minimal dissent.
Jan, with 10 minutes to go when you 2-1 down you have to gamble and stick at least 2 up front !!!
COYR see you at the Reading game.
Lets outsing and outplay reading

saints are crap they will be in the tyro league in a few years time

Dear Rupert,

If only Mummy had bought you a chemistry set to experiment with, or even sent you to scouts so you could see young boys at play you might have saved yourself from utter humiliation and from turning Southampton into a football laughing stock. You have only succeeded in alienating just about everyone associated with this club.

And in the same way that Simpson and his sidekick face a vote of no confidence from Watford shareholders who are pig sick with the way they are running their football club, you and that poison dwarf deserve the same retribution.

It is no co-incidence that it is Watford that stand between Saints and the final relegation place, but in all likelihood those positions will be reversed come the end of the season because your arrogance.

Just got back.A battling performance by the lads.The ref was diabolical.
The fans were excellent as well a rousing reception for the players at the end.
No doubt the "boycotting" whingers will be delighted with the result.
Bet the first poster on this thread the hilariously named "Saint" didnt go

It's difficult to pass comment as I wasn't there.
Still I can still be Mr.Grumpy as my mood hasn't changed!
Why does the one experienced professional jump in 2 mins before HT? He must take some blame for todays defeat - or is it the refs fault again?
Division 1 looming ever closer this weekend - come on UTS let's be seeing your mantra!
Derek and Kate before you start saying how good we were - we lost again...we won't stay in this Division unless we start winning and soon. Losing can be a habit, a habit difficult to change.

DID-NOT-DESERVE-THE-
LOSS!

Bravehearted,full-co
mmited from the majority of the team today! Still want the reason why Jan plays his "cucko land" formation and does not try simple english 4-4-2!! Give the players a bloody chance to play that! Thought Lallana could not give more than he did today, played exceptional! Pearce and Rudi Played good at the back, Schneiderlin In the middle of the park played well when he was on the ball, thought Surman could have done better than he did and could have gave more. Can anyone answer me where Wayne Thomas is please? We need to play football throughout the game not just when we start loosing, and we need to not let our heads drop but quality performance, defo improvement! Keep it up ladz!!! Red And White For Life! Saints Forever! X

juliusevola wrote:
Just got back.A battling performance by the lads.The ref was diabolical. The fans were excellent as well a rousing reception for the players at the end. No doubt the "boycotting" whingers will be delighted with the result. Bet the first poster on this thread the hilariously named "Saint" didnt go

That be where you are wrong, and we got nil points, and have no punch and can't defend!

Here we are again. Another loss and the gap widens. Sort it out someone and very soon please. Thank god Watford threw it away or we would spend until the end of the season in the bottom three. We dont have a hope with the current set up. And to all you 'fans' who's opinions are the only ones that count on here.....We do not have the time to see if it will work with kids. Unfortunately we need to start playing ugly football.

saints played well in the 2nd half and we (wolves)were lucky to get away without conceding,mind you I'm sure we could have scored again if we needed to I was surprised how good saints are given this seasons results and backroom goings on.I dont think they'll go down,but I do hope we go up.Had enough of this league..

What the f%$* was that? We all know Lowe is pulling the strings but why did he order Euell to get himself sent off? My mate down the pub who knows someone in another pub who knows someone that lives next door to someone who works at SMS says Lowe couldn't decide whether to order just Euell to get himself sent off or someone else with him.

As a ST holder,i have had enough..
play 2 up front at home,at least!
ok the ref was extremely poor.. but its time we stood up and stopped the rot at home! i was going to Reading next week,but id rather work and earn money-other than throw it away!!

Saints till i DIE.

Garynate wrote:
Here we are again. Another loss and the gap widens. Sort it out someone and very soon please. Thank god Watford threw it away or we would spend until the end of the season in the bottom three. We dont have a hope with the current set up. And to all you 'fans' who's opinions are the only ones that count on here.....We do not have the time to see if it will work with kids. Unfortunately we need to start playing ugly football.

Excellent and percise post!

Turn coat Wilde pull your finger out and sort this mess out!!

I have been watching Saints from the mid 60s and I can not understand when things are not working why we do not try a 4-4-2 formation, can any let me know why not?
I grew up with the likes of Davies,Paine,Channon
,Gabriel,Chivers,Syd
enham etc,we always played good attacking football we would lose many a game 2-3 4-5 but it was a great game to watch.
Back in 66/67 season Davies and Chivers scored 59 league goals Between them,
Ron Davies scored 4 goals at Old Trafford and we won 4-1 (16-8-69)
We have some good kids on the team and I feel 4-4-2 would suite them
more, McGoldrick needs help up front like a Stern John wait a minute where have I heard that name before???

We were better than them on the pitch and off the pitch (**** wolves fans - We had 10 men in the second half and were a lot louder) but we still lost.

We can't keep losing games saying we should have won, cos it aint 3 points in the bank.

As far as I'm concerned we narrowly missed out on relegation last year and our squad / manager is weaker now so it aint looking good.

Come on Derek / Kate and all the other superfans tell us that we are flying!

Redhat wrote:
As a ST holder,i have had enough..
play 2 up front at home,at least!
ok the ref was extremely poor.. but its time we stood up and stopped the rot at home! i was going to Reading next week,but id rather work and earn money-other than throw it away!!

Saints till i DIE.

You clearly weren't watching the game. Most of the game we had two up front, sometimes three.

What matters more is the the fact that the players up front can't hit a barn door with a banjo. And it doesn't help that we still have to put up with idle Surman because he is the fans favourite. Let's hope some idiot manager still wants to pay us £1.5m for the waste of space come January.

Overall today we dominated the game, played good football, but conceded two soft goals and failed to score from the the chances we created. The officials were hopeless and the penalty denied us was unbelievable.

Still good game (mostly) and entertaining. Very nearly value for money.

And nice to see the anti Rupert Lowe chants went nowhere. Even nicer to hear no songs calling for neighbouring supporters to be murdered. First time this the season and long may it last.

If we can keep the (proper) support going and Jan can keep the payers believing in themselves, then next season could be very promising.

great entertaining football,especially 2nd half,ref was ****.atmosphere was good,not singing alone this week,a first this season(Itchen STholder).If it was as **** as some say why were majority of supporters clapping the players,despite the score.
One last request,if you decide to leave early,don't change your mind once you have left your seat and stand in front of us that want to stay till the end,some of those people whose view you obscure are unable to see passed you,due to disability or age(height)thankyou for your consideration.

Saint wrote:

Garynate wrote: Here we are again. Another loss and the gap widens. Sort it out someone and very soon please. Thank god Watford threw it away or we would spend until the end of the season in the bottom three. We dont have a hope with the current set up. And to all you 'fans' who's opinions are the only ones that count on here.....We do not have the time to see if it will work with kids. Unfortunately we need to start playing ugly football.

Excellent and percise post! Turn coat Wilde pull your finger out and sort this mess out!!

Arguably some of our best football of the season, referee very poor, as were the 2 goals we conceded, hence we lost the game. Your spot on Garynate, we don't have the time to see if it will work with the kids, unfortuately the people who govern the club will not change direction now. I really hope we can scrape enough points to secure safety but I think our naivity will probably cost us and the January transfer market!! Lowe should have stuck with Pearson, I'm sure he would of stayed even with our financial restraints but I suspect they had different visions on how to drag this football club back to its feet. These are my opinions but I'm sure the 'fans', the so called majority will tell me where I'm going wrong.

I have had a season ticket for more years than I can remember and my family are all saints fans. I go to every home game and occasional away games and I shout and cheer for our team. No one can challenge my credentials as a saint fan or my right to have an opinion on the affairs of the club.

So I can say that I am unable to forgive Lowe for what he has done to our and I dislike the man intensely for it. He was let of the hook today for many fans were chanting for him to go. Our goal took some of the steam out of what was going to be a growing protest which illustrates the intense dislike for the man amongst those who go to the games. Not all Lowe haters are stay away fans. Nor are all those who go to games Lowe Lovers.

Our club does not deserve an inept individual like Lowe in control nor do we deaerve the inept officials in charge of today's game. I used to think that bungs for referees were a myth but now I am not so sure. Even the linesman was at it. Two calls that the ball was out when it was anything but.

Having said that the sending off put paid to Jan's system and we saw a different game with our players playing their hearts out.

Lallana, Schneiderlin, McGoldrick, Cork, Surman, Perry and Davis were al magnificent. Surman was exhausted by the end. The sad thing for me is that we are likely to lose four of these players come January which will really leave us in the mire.

These players have got better as the season has gone on but they have had to carry the team at a stage in their development when they needed help.

How any stupid fool can possibly think that Lowe and Wilde are an asset to our club is beyond comprehension.

Lowe has taken us from a profit to a loss, a team with talented internationals to a team of boys, from the premiership to the championship, from a full gate to a half empty stadium, and from a united fan base to one that is divided. Got only knows what would have happened if he had less ability than his handful of supporters claim. The man is an out and out loser which is why he can't keep managers.

I've said this b4 if the teams trys hard then the fans will get behind u right to the end, ok there is still some probs but the hardest i've seen them try for a long time well done boys, the ref cost us the game he was the worst i've seen in a long time,i'm sure alot of people on here will carry on about rl & jp but i saw a much more positive atitude than i have for ages, today gives us something to build on keep it going lads.
COYR

I thought saints done realy well because they ran there harts out and I cant believe Bradley hit the post.And at the end people went and stood up and got in my and over people's way and wouldn't go.And I am 10 so I missed seeing the end of the game because of them.

Unlucky lads, good performance but we failed to convert the chances that we had. In the first half Gobern was completley out of his depth so thats why i am glad that Bradley came on to get at least some experience on the pitch. Lets see if we can get a result at Reding

COYR!

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
I have had a season ticket for more years than I can remember and my family are all saints fans. I go to every home game and occasional away games and I shout and cheer for our team. No one can challenge my credentials as a saint fan or my right to have an opinion on the affairs of the club. So I can say that I am unable to forgive Lowe for what he has done to our and I dislike the man intensely for it. He was let of the hook today for many fans were chanting for him to go. Our goal took some of the steam out of what was going to be a growing protest which illustrates the intense dislike for the man amongst those who go to the games. Not all Lowe haters are stay away fans. Nor are all those who go to games Lowe Lovers. Our club does not deserve an inept individual like Lowe in control nor do we deaerve the inept officials in charge of today's game. I used to think that bungs for referees were a myth but now I am not so sure. Even the linesman was at it. Two calls that the ball was out when it was anything but. Having said that the sending off put paid to Jan's system and we saw a different game with our players playing their hearts out. Lallana, Schneiderlin, McGoldrick, Cork, Surman, Perry and Davis were al magnificent. Surman was exhausted by the end. The sad thing for me is that we are likely to lose four of these players come January which will really leave us in the mire. These players have got better as the season has gone on but they have had to carry the team at a stage in their development when they needed help. How any stupid fool can possibly think that Lowe and Wilde are an asset to our club is beyond comprehension. Lowe has taken us from a profit to a loss, a team with talented internationals to a team of boys, from the premiership to the championship, from a full gate to a half empty stadium, and from a united fan base to one that is divided. Got only knows what would have happened if he had less ability than his handful of supporters claim. The man is an out and out loser which is why he can't keep managers.

Good post Hercules, like me you are passionate about our football club. I've supported my team for 40 years and STILL supported them today but I detest the cancer which has infected this football club, I give you Rupert Lowe. Fans I went to games for many years are not going, the reason, again I give you Rupert Lowe. I'm sure there are people on here who will question these fans credentials but I can assure these are diehard fans who are hurting.

I'm glad that I went today because even though we lost, the performance by our lads in the second half proved that we can stay in this league if they play/battle this way every game. ps the referee was a follicly challenged illegitimate child masturbator.

Another game and another defeat.

POORTVLIET OUT

Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

At least were consistent!

David Crook wrote:
Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

Shazza (the genuine article, not an imposter) wrote:

David Crook wrote:
Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

We keep going till the end,I have faith Shazza,thatis why I am a true Saints fan,and you are not

David Crook wrote:

Shazza (the genuine article, not an imposter) wrote:

David Crook wrote:
Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

We keep going till the end,I have faith Shazza,thatis why I am a true Saints fan,and you are not

I go to all the home games (and some away) and I sing my heart out for the lads AND I paid £480 for the pleasure. I can say what I want you silly tool. Why am I not a true saints fan? You are a fake, jog on.

David Crook wrote:

Shazza (the genuine article, not an imposter) wrote:

David Crook wrote: Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

We keep going till the end,I have faith Shazza,thatis why I am a true Saints fan,and you are not

David you arnt a true saints fan coz if you were you would constantly moan and refuse to go to matches to support the team and you would want saints to go bust to rid us of Lowe

David Crook wrote:

Shazza (the genuine article, not an imposter) wrote:

David Crook wrote:
Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

We keep going till the end,I have faith Shazza,thatis why I am a true Saints fan,and you are not

And anyway David you didn't answer my question. Obviously you don't go to many games and have an awfully blinkered view of the fate of my beloved SFC.

So I will ask you again.

How many games (that you don't attend - being from Wakey) until you finally admit we're in trouble?

Will it be 40? 41? Will we get to 45 games before you admit we are in trouble? How many games David???

I go every week and know we're in trouble, how about you??

2-0 huh?

Thats the best they have lost this season.

Thought about opening a pub have you?

3rd div players hanging on a premier title - You are useless

those poor lads ,fight every game i've seen (all at home,tv coverage away)How can you expect more if you boo every mistake they make,or shout LOWE out,no wonder they feel too much pressure at home.
get behind the SAINTS.
PS stewards,don't rebuke fans for standing up and showing disdain for ref,then dissapear when early leavers obscure seated players view,not only did members of my family miss seeing play,a fight almost broke out in front of me,because of this problem.We had stewardship the whole game,and when actually needed NOTHING.

knuckle dragger wrote:

David Crook wrote:

Shazza (the genuine article, not an imposter) wrote:

David Crook wrote: Well done to-day saints,keep on going,there are two halves of a season,and you will come good in the end.

How many times are we going to lose before you finally admit we're in trouble?

We keep going till the end,I have faith Shazza,thatis why I am a true Saints fan,and you are not

David you arnt a true saints fan coz if you were you would constantly moan and refuse to go to matches to support the team and you would want saints to go bust to rid us of Lowe

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

thanks luke21,sorry you missed last bit because of mindless few,I know my son has missed last minute goals because of them"!!Funny stewards dissapear when most needed!!

wish I was back in Bucharest wrote:

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote: I have had a season ticket for more years than I can remember and my family are all saints fans. I go to every home game and occasional away games and I shout and cheer for our team. No one can challenge my credentials as a saint fan or my right to have an opinion on the affairs of the club. So I can say that I am unable to forgive Lowe for what he has done to our and I dislike the man intensely for it. He was let of the hook today for many fans were chanting for him to go. Our goal took some of the steam out of what was going to be a growing protest which illustrates the intense dislike for the man amongst those who go to the games. Not all Lowe haters are stay away fans. Nor are all those who go to games Lowe Lovers. Our club does not deserve an inept individual like Lowe in control nor do we deaerve the inept officials in charge of today's game. I used to think that bungs for referees were a myth but now I am not so sure. Even the linesman was at it. Two calls that the ball was out when it was anything but. Having said that the sending off put paid to Jan's system and we saw a different game with our players playing their hearts out. Lallana, Schneiderlin, McGoldrick, Cork, Surman, Perry and Davis were al magnificent. Surman was exhausted by the end. The sad thing for me is that we are likely to lose four of these players come January which will really leave us in the mire. These players have got better as the season has gone on but they have had to carry the team at a stage in their development when they needed help. How any stupid fool can possibly think that Lowe and Wilde are an asset to our club is beyond comprehension. Lowe has taken us from a profit to a loss, a team with talented internationals to a team of boys, from the premiership to the championship, from a full gate to a half empty stadium, and from a united fan base to one that is divided. Got only knows what would have happened if he had less ability than his handful of supporters claim. The man is an out and out loser which is why he can't keep managers.

Good post Hercules, like me you are passionate about our football club. I've supported my team for 40 years and STILL supported them today but I detest the cancer which has infected this football club, I give you Rupert Lowe. Fans I went to games for many years are not going, the reason, again I give you Rupert Lowe. I'm sure there are people on here who will question these fans credentials but I can assure these are diehard fans who are hurting.

I also commend your post. I am not asking for fans to boycott SMS, you support your team how you see fit but if you would rather see Lowe out drop me an email indicating either how many season ticket holders in your group want Lowe out or, as in mine and my fathers case, are boycotting SMS until Lowe resigns and someone sane takes over the running of the club.

Have some fans not cottoned on that we actually lost yesterday ? We can safely say already that any form of promotion is dead. We could of probably said that within the first month of the season. According to our 'head coach' and football chairman a playoff spot was possible ! LOL

Fans happy that we are head deep in a relegation battle already ?


How far we have fallen if fans are happy that we played a better second half ! WOW we still lost

So all of you that want Lowe out, who's the alternative?

17 games in 29 to go.....

12 points from 6th place, 8 points from mid-table, 1 point from "the zone"...

It'll come. As our near resident SMS rocker say's..."Keep the faith"!!

A little consisitency in selection perhaps?

COYR

Am I the only person to think the ref actually got most decisions right today? Euell was sent off for a 2 footed tackle, having been warned a little earlier for a similar offence. Any dissent is now a booking as every player and supporter knows. The various other incidents like penalty claims I also believe he got right.
As many of the above posts point out, we are a cash-strapped club making do with limited resources. Against teams like Wolves, who have a classic Championship team, you have to battle and take your chances. We generally battled but missed chances we badly needed to have taken - pulling back to 2-2 could have led to a very interesting game.

Where's Derek of Holbury?

Good effort guys. 2-1 against the top of the table team is no disgrace. Euell was a chump to get sent off but fair play to the other guys who held the scoreline steady for the next 60 minutes.

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:
I have had a season ticket for more years than I can remember and my family are all saints fans. I go to every home game and occasional away games and I shout and cheer for our team. No one can challenge my credentials as a saint fan or my right to have an opinion on the affairs of the club. So I can say that I am unable to forgive Lowe for what he has done to our and I dislike the man intensely for it. He was let of the hook today for many fans were chanting for him to go. Our goal took some of the steam out of what was going to be a growing protest which illustrates the intense dislike for the man amongst those who go to the games. Not all Lowe haters are stay away fans. Nor are all those who go to games Lowe Lovers. Our club does not deserve an inept individual like Lowe in control nor do we deaerve the inept officials in charge of today's game. I used to think that bungs for referees were a myth but now I am not so sure. Even the linesman was at it. Two calls that the ball was out when it was anything but. Having said that the sending off put paid to Jan's system and we saw a different game with our players playing their hearts out. Lallana, Schneiderlin, McGoldrick, Cork, Surman, Perry and Davis were al magnificent. Surman was exhausted by the end. The sad thing for me is that we are likely to lose four of these players come January which will really leave us in the mire. These players have got better as the season has gone on but they have had to carry the team at a stage in their development when they needed help. How any stupid fool can possibly think that Lowe and Wilde are an asset to our club is beyond comprehension. Lowe has taken us from a profit to a loss, a team with talented internationals to a team of boys, from the premiership to the championship, from a full gate to a half empty stadium, and from a united fan base to one that is divided. Got only knows what would have happened if he had less ability than his handful of supporters claim. The man is an out and out loser which is why he can't keep managers.

Brilliant post!

Just about sums it all up!

This post needs to be typed up and dropped on Lowe table. Then it would, with any decent person provoke some inner respect for oneself, and make him dictate to his pa a resignation!

Oh crap, I have a dreamm.......

Like most people who went yesterday i came from the game happy at the level of effort and entertainment that was on show.Theirs no disgrace in losing to Wolves,they`re a decent team with quality players.
I sit in the Itchen North,and it was a great atmosphere,loads of singing and backing for the lads,and the added fun and games of a dodgy referee and the dark lord Lowe to vent our fury on.Brilliant..its better than panto!
I think Portvliet is beginning to understand that we`re going to be in big trouble this season and thankfully he seems to be realising that our best chance of survival is to play our better more experienced players,seeing the likes of Euell,Skacel and Wright Phillips on the pitch ,i feel will give us a chance.The youngsters should be brought through gradually giving them time to adjust to the demands of this league.

Lowe out, and take your Dutch boyfriends with you.

If all the above had come to the game perhaps we could afford to keep players!they are not rubbish,naiive maybe,but a little bit of help from the worst referee I have seen for a long time(didnt see sending off, wrong end)at least 1 of the pen claims were valid.This respect the ref campaign is a joke you have to earn respect and now they are pro's they are above the game.I have been a Saints supporter for over 66years and no-one will change that!!!

we are in DEEP trouble...why do ppl come on here saying "yeah we were brilliant,unlucky to lose..bla bla"

The simple thing is- points win prizes!!! if we dont start dominating and hanging teams out to dry-its all over for us all!!!

The following is an edited version of what I'm uploading to The Exiled Saint later this afternoon once I've updated the weekend’s final results table. My intention is negate the moaners and whingers who prefer to air their ignorance of both the game and the club, and whose intention is to see the Saints ruined. Thank heavens not everyone in Southampton share their bigoted opinions.

"I feel more than a little sorry for those who were unable to get to St Mary’s Stadium yesterday afternoon, for they missed a cracker. To be honest this thought was furthest from our minds as we trundled down through the Midlands. And first twenty minutes into the game itself as Scottish International Chris Iwelumo powered his way through our fragile defence to score Wolves first goal, only to be followed shortly afterwards by Manchester Utd graduate David Jones, did little to disabuse my feelings of here we go again.

The next seventy minutes of football was some of the best I’ve seen from the Saints for years. Before the moronic chants of “We Want Rupert Out” could take hold, Alex Pearce scored for us from a well-taken corner and the fight back against well-organised Wolves began.

Nothing had prepared us for what happened next when match referee Mr Mason considered Jason Euell’s tackle on Richard Stearman worthy of a straight red card and a subsequent sending-off. My seat in the Chapel Stand made it impossible for me to judge weather it was a foul or not, but along with most of the crowd I’m convinced the challenge did not warrant the draconian decision.

I’m truly grateful for his pronouncement, and for his later verdicts, as they not only galvanised our now ten-man side, but consolidated the home support for the remaining three minutes of extra time and had us shouting our heads off through out all of the second half in our attempt to make up for the Saint’s numerical loss.

It was one of the best examples of team bonding I’ve witnessed; not only did the players work for each other but the supporters bonded with the resultant transformed team of fighters. For those who have accused the Saints of not being strong enough, yesterday afternoon potency and power was there by the bucketful.

The resounding boos that erupted at the final whistle on this occasion was reserved for the hapless official and the home crowd stood in its appreciation of a well-fought battle and our gallant lads. It was particularly noticeable that the Wolves manager, Mick McCarthy, waited to shake hands with the Saints as the left the pitch. A gesture that said it all.

Thanks to an inept official and a now hoarse home support our anticipated dreary return to the Midlands was not to be. There will be more false dawns, but what I saw yesterday fills me with more hope than I’ve dared to entertain since the beginning of the season".

Lowes Nemisis wrote:
Where's Derek of Holbury?

I don't think Saints PR dept work on Sunday!
Anyway. Glad that the final score ended up acceptable yesterday, I was really worried we might get a rugby score against us. A 2-1 loss for the team 4th from bottom against the top team was not really a surprise was it? At least it was a battling defeat, so well done the boys! If we can keep playing with the same intensity there are plenty of teams in this division we can take max points from. Looking at the table today, I can't see the bottom 2 getting out of relegation and at this point I predict Saints finishing the year around 13th - 15th place. Not brilliant but survival must be the object this year. Of course I have no knowledge of what will actually occur in January and I do fear the worst, but for the moment I will just wait and see and continue hoping for the best. COYR keep going!

24-hours on and I am still lost for a few words - but here are a couple.

Lowe OUT and take yoyr Dutch boyfriends with you! (To quote Denzil)

I am very happy for all those who were entertained, and saw some of the best football by Saints for years - but it isn't winning games and before you know it we will be in Division 1 playing even better football but still getting no resluts.

Saints will become...a great team to play against and watch for entertainment, but let's make sure we win!

I cannot subscribe to the anti-Lowe brigade's bigoted rantings (based more on class prejudice than common sense). The Club has to pursue the policy of fielding young players for financial reasons. Once Stern John got fit again, we had to lend him out because we can't afford his wages. We're in that much trouble. It wasn't Lowe who brought the Club to its financial knees. It was the short-lived Crouch regime which spent more money, in transfer fees and wages, on clapped out players than we could afford. The 10 men (not boys) who played their hearts out in the second half yesterday deserved a point. The referee was poor and the game is being wrecked by poor refereeing generally. We can play good football in midfield but we remain weak in defence - more must be done to strengthen there. Up front we suffer from an obvious inability to put the ball in the net but 2 strikers in a 4-4-2 formation would surely help. Where is Pekhart? He hasn't been given a proper chance. Perhaps he's not showing enough in training. But he's a tall lad and has greater physical presence than McGoldrick, Lallana and W-P. I am not very impressed with Lallana - he's been over-hyped. Let's see Pekhart leading the line and McGoldrick feeding off him. Gobern was out of his depth (again) yesterday. Jan should not have picked him in the first place after his poor show against Bristol City last week. At 17 he shows promise but needs another year or two before expecting a place in the starting XI. I am still hopeful the team can rise up the table if they work hard and stay positive. We all must. COYR

So now asking questions about the curent set up is being bigoted?

Lowe has no class so how can it be a class thingy?

Wake up and smell the coffee? Blimey most of us saw the problems before we got relegated. Who remembers the money wasted by every new Manager trying to build his team? How many really gave a stuff about SFC? Over paid journeymen looking for one last pay packet.
So Lowe is innocent - the Managers weren't up to it. They spent without a care - as if throwing money at the situation was going to help. No one wanted to come here because of the poison challice - when is the Manager going to get the boot. Then were the clever ones who came anyway, because they only had a season left in them.
I think the average fan has a balanced view of our predicament...never mind the inept football Managers what is the common theme running with the club at this time?
You've guessed it...the groundsman! Hang on hasn't Dave Luker in the ticket office seen the good and the bad times too? What about the chief constable of Hampshire surely he must be to blame because of the cost of policing SMS. The what about our "Youth" who mean we need all these extra police?
Nah...long memories remember Woggy the kitman giving up his position for the better of the club - perhaps we could blame Nigel Pearson for saving s last season?

There is one man responsible for our demise - and he is now only involved to try and salvage what's left of the share value in the PLC - how much does he hold? 6% I believe - 6% of nothing. Surely the other shareholders (94%) must be more concerned but do nothing.

I know if I earned 94% of something, there is no way someone who holds the other 6% would be making all the decisions.

Rant over now - but for FFS will someone kick the other shareholders? They need their flasks refilling and blankets tucked in over in The Kingsland.

We are The Itchen
We are The Itchen
We are The Itchen over here!

Block 1 Lunatic Fringe, lager swilling head case, on the verge of a mental breakdown.

We were accompanied to the game yesterday by 2 Wolves fans who have seen good and bad times as Molineux. The difference this year is they have found players who can score the goals to get them promoted. Mick McCarthy has been allowed to get on with his job over the last couple of seasons and they will be disappointed not to get promoted this year. Anyway, that said, back to yesterday's game the Wolves fans thought we were unlucky not to get at least a point from the game and playing like we did in the second half we will stay up - lets hope so. I was entertained yesterday and the lads played some good stuff, but as usual we lack someone to put the ball in the net how long mus we keep saying that. I cannot finish without saying how poor the Referee was, I have seen better refeereeing by a Dad at a Tyro League game on a Sunday, he was absolutely appalling. Surely, these Referee Assessors, that are supposed to be at every game must see what we see, but the Referees never seem to be accountable.
Let's hope we put in another good performance and take the points at Reading next week.
To all the doom and gloom merchants, REMEMBER Sunderland were bottom of the table at Christmas, but still got promoted.

saint Compo wrote:
I cannot subscribe to the anti-Lowe brigade's bigoted rantings (based more on class prejudice than common sense). The Club has to pursue the policy of fielding young players for financial reasons. Once Stern John got fit again, we had to lend him out because we can't afford his wages. We're in that much trouble. It wasn't Lowe who brought the Club to its financial knees. It was the short-lived Crouch regime which spent more money, in transfer fees and wages, on clapped out players than we could afford. The 10 men (not boys) who played their hearts out in the second half yesterday deserved a point. The referee was poor and the game is being wrecked by poor refereeing generally. We can play good football in midfield but we remain weak in defence - more must be done to strengthen there. Up front we suffer from an obvious inability to put the ball in the net but 2 strikers in a 4-4-2 formation would surely help. Where is Pekhart? He hasn't been given a proper chance. Perhaps he's not showing enough in training. But he's a tall lad and has greater physical presence than McGoldrick, Lallana and W-P. I am not very impressed with Lallana - he's been over-hyped. Let's see Pekhart leading the line and McGoldrick feeding off him. Gobern was out of his depth (again) yesterday. Jan should not have picked him in the first place after his poor show against Bristol City last week. At 17 he shows promise but needs another year or two before expecting a place in the starting XI. I am still hopeful the team can rise up the table if they work hard and stay positive. We all must. COYR

How can you possibly blame Leon Crouch for the disaster we have witnessed the past 5 years. Lowe created massive instability, as is evidenced by the ridiculous number of managers that have come and gone under his "leadership". He refused to invest in the team when it was most needed and we were relegated. Again he refused to utilize the parachute payment to fund player wages / transfers to build a team capable of an immediate return to the Premiership.
Wilde spent all the money, not Crouch. I actually applauded Wildes efforts at the time, but unfortunately Burley wasted our chance to get out of theis division. Wilde has since shown his true colours by chumming up to the man he ran out of the club. Crouch brought in a manager in Pearson that restored belief and desire to the players, and saved us from certain relegation last year and offering hope for this season, but as usual, along comes Lowe to destroy that hope so he can do it his way again. I wonder Rupert, are we still a bigger club than Spurs?
Pearson is enjoying success at Leicester, and our loss will be their gain.

Finlay wrote:
2-0 huh? Thats the best they have lost this season. Thought about opening a pub have you? 3rd div players hanging on a premier title - You are useless

Gee, why don't go and play on the free way, hopefully you will get run over.

Andyt66 wrote:

saint Compo wrote:
I cannot subscribe to the anti-Lowe brigade's bigoted rantings (based more on class prejudice than common sense). The Club has to pursue the policy of fielding young players for financial reasons. Once Stern John got fit again, we had to lend him out because we can't afford his wages. We're in that much trouble. It wasn't Lowe who brought the Club to its financial knees. It was the short-lived Crouch regime which spent more money, in transfer fees and wages, on clapped out players than we could afford. The 10 men (not boys) who played their hearts out in the second half yesterday deserved a point. The referee was poor and the game is being wrecked by poor refereeing generally. We can play good football in midfield but we remain weak in defence - more must be done to strengthen there. Up front we suffer from an obvious inability to put the ball in the net but 2 strikers in a 4-4-2 formation would surely help. Where is Pekhart? He hasn't been given a proper chance. Perhaps he's not showing enough in training. But he's a tall lad and has greater physical presence than McGoldrick, Lallana and W-P. I am not very impressed with Lallana - he's been over-hyped. Let's see Pekhart leading the line and McGoldrick feeding off him. Gobern was out of his depth (again) yesterday. Jan should not have picked him in the first place after his poor show against Bristol City last week. At 17 he shows promise but needs another year or two before expecting a place in the starting XI. I am still hopeful the team can rise up the table if they work hard and stay positive. We all must. COYR

How can you possibly blame Leon Crouch for the disaster we have witnessed the past 5 years. Lowe created massive instability, as is evidenced by the ridiculous number of managers that have come and gone under his "leadership". He refused to invest in the team when it was most needed and we were relegated. Again he refused to utilize the parachute payment to fund player wages / transfers to build a team capable of an immediate return to the Premiership.
Wilde spent all the money, not Crouch. I actually applauded Wildes efforts at the time, but unfortunately Burley wasted our chance to get out of theis division. Wilde has since shown his true colours by chumming up to the man he ran out of the club. Crouch brought in a manager in Pearson that restored belief and desire to the players, and saved us from certain relegation last year and offering hope for this season, but as usual, along comes Lowe to destroy that hope so he can do it his way again. I wonder Rupert, are we still a bigger club than Spurs?
Pearson is enjoying success at Leicester, and our loss will be their gain.

I am glad to see you supported Wilde and now blame him. Just shows that fans are always right and the Board is always wrong.

And the same old argument about why didn't Lowe invest any money - from where? Lowe's not some Russian oligarch with oil billions to spend on a toy. Why don't YOU put in £30-40m? That's just as ridiculous.

In the 50 years I've been following the Saints, I can't remember anyone putting their hand in their own pocket to fund the club. Everyone from Mary Bates onwards ran it as a business, which means income and expenditure have to have more than a passing relationship to each other.

Redknap got us relegated, Wilde and Crouch nearly bankrupted us and the players (finally) kept us up last season. Pearson's record with Saints was plain awful. Nice bloke, but didn't have a clue, and cost a fortune. Hope he has more luck where he is now.

The bottom line is that the problems facing Saints and virtually every club other than the top half dozen in the premiership are caused by the very structure of football in the world. Unless and until a severe cap is placed on players' wages clubs will begin to go out of business, and then the wages will drop as there are more players chasing fewer jobs. It is all very well for players to say they need high wages to compensate for a short career, but the average person in the UK will earn maybe £1.5 in their lifetime. While players like BWP can earn that in two or three years, and Lampard in two or three months, clubs like Southampton will always struggle. We have a fan base now about the same as when we were in the third division - around 10,000. It grows while we are winning and shrinks when we lose. That is not enough to sustain the sort of team (and Chairman) that people posting on this board want.

It would be nice if you could wave a magic wand - get rid of Lowe, appoint Wenger, spend £50m on new players, sack the incompetent Surman and so on. But it ain't going to happen. Or if it does it will be because we have been taken over by some arms dealer who wants to try to rehabilitate himself. Or am I thinking about Portsmouth?

In the meantime stop wishing for what is out of your control and concentrate of giving 110 per cent for the team. That's what I expect of the players. That's what the players should expect of us.

Sadly I had to miss yesterday's match, and I really wished I could have been there to add my support. It does not mean I am a part time supporter, or flag me up as someone who picks and chooses the matches he will attend. It simply means I had a family commitment that meant I was unable to be there.

For this reason I feel it inappropriate to pass comment on the match as I was not there. I will though try and answer some of the questions raised above, and also make observations about comments directed at me.

I am a football supporter and the club I have supported for over 40 years is Southampton.

I have no particular allegiance or love now for Rupert Lowe and nor was this the case during his previous tenure. I am aware he has made mistakes whilst at this club and done things in the past that were possibly not in the best interests of the club. it is also the case that he was accused of many things for which he was not guilty.

I understand that the club is in dire financial straits and Rupert Lowe made everyone aware that extreme financial cutbacks were necessary to keep us away from administration. Part of those cutbacks involved removing many of the high wage earners from the payroll.

This in turn meant that in the main we were going to have to rely on the young players at the club to step up to first team duties.

He then employed a management team who had a proven track record of working relatively successfully with young boys. This team informed us at the very start they they were going to train the team in the Dutch style to incorporate 'total football' into their playing.

In my opinion there was no alternative to removing the top earners, and so far this season the tactics of the new management team has shown some wonderful examples of football on the pitch. I think it is absolutely obvious to anyone with a knowledge of football that this is not an overnight project, and these boys are not going to have an immediate impact on the game. It is also obvious that we are going to lose more games than they win, but in my book it is worth it just to witness the improvemnet we are now seeing in the football skills of the players of this club. The boys are a revellation to me and I would far rather see a bunch of enthusiastic kids playing with skill, determination, and a desire to win, than what we have had to endure for the last couple of seasons. In those seasons we had to watch overpaid players stroll around the pitch showing no particular skills, and no desire to break sweat to win the honour of pulling on the red and white shirt.

The evidence would seem to suggest that these players are improving and learning from their mistakes, and the same applies to their manager.

It is fact that we are severely short on experience, and without doubt these kids would benefit from that experience. But we do not have that experience and cannot get it due to our financial position, so we all have to just get on with what we have got. I have a confidence that we have enough to stay in this division, and if we do I think it will be a major achievemnet by the kids in extremely difficult conditions.

I also believe that the kids more than ever need the support and understanding of their fans Certainly the near 18,000 fans that so brillaintly backed them this weekend would suggest that the support is coming back, and that gives me great joy.

I am of the opinion that the campaign to oust Lowe and at the same time criticise our players and their manager is a damaging, destructive, and negative force that is extremely unfair on these kids who are playing their hearts out for the club.. This opinion, I feel, is backed up by their inability to win home matches.

My stance on the outcome is not something new, as anyone who knows me will confirm my beliefs since this season started. I have been saying all season that the best we can hope for this season is to avoid relegation, and then hopefully we would be able to keep most of the kids for the new campaign next season. Then, with a year under their belts playing together, and all being one year older, we would be far better placed to mount a challenge on the title race. I have always maintained that realistically it was going to take us two to three years to gain promotion to the Premiership where we belong.

I believe we are on target, and playing some great football with some extremely talented kids under a very good coaching set-up, and that is enough for me to maintain my support for the Saints.

I have endeavoured to write this article in a way that it would answer questions asked of me, whilst dealing with comments directed at my views. I will repeat what I have always said that I am entitled to views in exactly the same way anyone else who supports the club. It was also written in a way that would not deride anyone for their views, or portray me as someone who feels his views are more important than others. The intention was to answer raised questions without upsetting or annoying others, in the hope that they would respond in like fashion, so that reasoned debate could take place.

However, I do just have this niggling feeling, that someone somewhere will find a reason to find something in this posting that offends them.

Well done Mike C for putting it more succinctly than I could have done, but you realise that this will now make you a Lowe Luvvy in the eyes of some. I do though expect that it will only worry you as much as the same comments worry me.

Derek
Again you say so much and make perfect sense - however how is the campaign to oust of Lowe on a small forum going to affect the team?
I still want to know how anyone holding 6% of the shares has such a strngle hold over the club?
I watched Final Score on Freeview Channel 301 all Saturday afternoon - and hoped and prayed for an equlaiser - but you just knew it would never come.
I'll sit up here championing anyone who wants to see Lowe gone. How about my war chest being used to buy him out? 6% of b*ggar all must be even less - we must be able to afford to get rid of him if it's only money he wants.
Sounds simple o me but I think there's more to buying him out than that!

A few thoughts responding to some of the points above:

Mature Saints Fan, Redhat and SfcSupporter93 wants 4-4-2. Surely that was what we had yesterday - with Euell playing alongside McGoldrick.? Was working pretty well too until Euell was sent off.

The real problem, once again, was poor defending. We were so much better at the back when Perry came on – looks OK with Pearce and not a lot else we can do until Thomas is back from injury. Still problems with no proper full backs in the squad apart from young Mills. Cork, who has been very good for us, struggled against Carlos Edwards but so would anyone in this league. One problem with 4-4-2 is we have no one on the right who can help whoever is playing right back to defend – Lallana did a poor job giving protective cover yesterday.

I think the anti Rupert Lowe chants would have got somewhere if Pearce hadn’t scored. I may even have joined in although I can’t really see what the alternative is at this moment in time. People must not confuse those of us condemning the stayaways as somehow being pro-Lowe. The point is that the Lowe has, certainly in the past, been a very poor chairman, but the UTSs of this world are doing just as much harm now by denying the team the money it needs to survive. It won’t be Lowe who is to blame if we have to sell this January – it is no way in his interest, financial or otherwise, for Saints to go down. The “principled” stayaways actually want us to go down – a pathetic excuse for fans.

So, Hercules Grytpype-Thynne is absolutely right that “ Not all Lowe haters are stay away fans. Nor are all those who go to games Lowe Lovers”. The key point for fans is to show up and support the team.
Don’t know what Shazza and David Crook are having a spat about. Of course we are in trouble, but David is just being optimistic in saying that we can get out of it. Of course Shazza is a fan – she is turning up and paying her money but does not think the club/team is being properly managed – an opinion - fair enough. It’s the stayaways such as loweout@hotmail.co.u
k, who kid themselves that starving the team of funds is good for us that stick in my throat.

UTS asks “Have some fans not cottoned on that we actually lost yesterday ? “ Yes –the difference is we were there to see it and understand why people can take some heart from it. It was because we were there that we know what we are speaking about while you and your ilk .......... well, nothing new there.

I see that Nile Ranger scored again for Newcastle's Academy side. That's 13 goals in reserve and academy matches this season. What a pity that he showed the same traits as Dyer and Wright-Phillips. He could have done a job for Saints

derek fo holbury wrote:
Sadly I had to miss yesterday's match, and I really wished I could have been there to add my support. It does not mean I am a part time supporter, or flag me up as someone who picks and chooses the matches he will attend. It simply means I had a family commitment that meant I was unable to be there. For this reason I feel it inappropriate to pass comment on the match as I was not there. I will though try and answer some of the questions raised above, and also make observations about comments directed at me. I am a football supporter and the club I have supported for over 40 years is Southampton. I have no particular allegiance or love now for Rupert Lowe and nor was this the case during his previous tenure. I am aware he has made mistakes whilst at this club and done things in the past that were possibly not in the best interests of the club. it is also the case that he was accused of many things for which he was not guilty. I understand that the club is in dire financial straits and Rupert Lowe made everyone aware that extreme financial cutbacks were necessary to keep us away from administration. Part of those cutbacks involved removing many of the high wage earners from the payroll. This in turn meant that in the main we were going to have to rely on the young players at the club to step up to first team duties. He then employed a management team who had a proven track record of working relatively successfully with young boys. This team informed us at the very start they they were going to train the team in the Dutch style to incorporate 'total football' into their playing. In my opinion there was no alternative to removing the top earners, and so far this season the tactics of the new management team has shown some wonderful examples of football on the pitch. I think it is absolutely obvious to anyone with a knowledge of football that this is not an overnight project, and these boys are not going to have an immediate impact on the game. It is also obvious that we are going to lose more games than they win, but in my book it is worth it just to witness the improvemnet we are now seeing in the football skills of the players of this club. The boys are a revellation to me and I would far rather see a bunch of enthusiastic kids playing with skill, determination, and a desire to win, than what we have had to endure for the last couple of seasons. In those seasons we had to watch overpaid players stroll around the pitch showing no particular skills, and no desire to break sweat to win the honour of pulling on the red and white shirt. The evidence would seem to suggest that these players are improving and learning from their mistakes, and the same applies to their manager. It is fact that we are severely short on experience, and without doubt these kids would benefit from that experience. But we do not have that experience and cannot get it due to our financial position, so we all have to just get on with what we have got. I have a confidence that we have enough to stay in this division, and if we do I think it will be a major achievemnet by the kids in extremely difficult conditions. I also believe that the kids more than ever need the support and understanding of their fans Certainly the near 18,000 fans that so brillaintly backed them this weekend would suggest that the support is coming back, and that gives me great joy. I am of the opinion that the campaign to oust Lowe and at the same time criticise our players and their manager is a damaging, destructive, and negative force that is extremely unfair on these kids who are playing their hearts out for the club.. This opinion, I feel, is backed up by their inability to win home matches. My stance on the outcome is not something new, as anyone who knows me will confirm my beliefs since this season started. I have been saying all season that the best we can hope for this season is to avoid relegation, and then hopefully we would be able to keep most of the kids for the new campaign next season. Then, with a year under their belts playing together, and all being one year older, we would be far better placed to mount a challenge on the title race. I have always maintained that realistically it was going to take us two to three years to gain promotion to the Premiership where we belong. I believe we are on target, and playing some great football with some extremely talented kids under a very good coaching set-up, and that is enough for me to maintain my support for the Saints. I have endeavoured to write this article in a way that it would answer questions asked of me, whilst dealing with comments directed at my views. I will repeat what I have always said that I am entitled to views in exactly the same way anyone else who supports the club. It was also written in a way that would not deride anyone for their views, or portray me as someone who feels his views are more important than others. The intention was to answer raised questions without upsetting or annoying others, in the hope that they would respond in like fashion, so that reasoned debate could take place. However, I do just have this niggling feeling, that someone somewhere will find a reason to find something in this posting that offends them.

If a man pushed you in a river and then having pulled you out others claimed he was a hero for saving you would you believe it? Never ever forget that Rupert Lowe got us into this mess with a succession of very poor management decisions. He is not our saviour he is the cause of all our woes. Only the gullible would believe otherwise.

St Yorkie,

I think that any negative views when (in some cases) are so cuttingly and venomously displayed on this site aginst Lowe. The Management and the players will have a negative effect. The players are young and impressionable and will read this site - it is bound to have some influence on them and the way they will perform.

As for your question on the 6% stuff - ask me one on sport.

Told you before, I know nothing of finance and only became a supporter to support the football my team when they played football.

It all seems so out of place and pointless. For me the most important thing is to be behind the lads. Once upon a time a fan would have ripped the head off an opposing supporter for bad mouthing our team. Now they don not need to bother it seems because we are perfectly capable of doing it for them.

Like your comments F FAN. Said as a supporter

Derek, here are some answers to questions you posed on the Schneiderlin report.

Let me first answer the question you pose in the penultimate paragraph of yet another of your lengthy missives.

Your quote is "You all at some time or other have bemoaned the fact that we are using these kids or that they are not good enough, or that we need to use experienced players. What alternative was there. You may not have liked the fact that Lowe has got rid of all the high wage earners, but he has had to do it."

Let's start with the obvious.

What evidence do you have to prove that releasing all the experienced players and just using kids is the ONLY way Lowe could have dealt with our alleged financial problems?

Do you have first hand knowledge of how good or bad our finances are?
Have you attended the meetings between Lowe & the bank, sat in on board meetings, or had access to the latest accounts, or are you just CHOOSING to believe what Lowe & Wilde have told you?

An experienced goal scorer, Stern John, has recently been released for being allegedly a high earner. Do you think that was a wise financial move given the fact that we are now paying the wages of 2 totally unproven, inexperienced & young strikers, Robertson & Pekhart, whilst they warm the bench?
Wouldn't it make more financial sense to pay one player who is capable of scoring 20 goals a season, rather than pay 2 who have no pedigree at any level?
Do you actually know if John's sole wage was actually greater than the combined wages of Robertson & Pekhart?
If John did have to go, do you know for a fact that we could not afford to bring in a more mature loan player that actually does have some experience and a proven goal scoring record at CCC level?

Face facts Derek, you know nothing more about SFC's finances than anyone else, outside of the priviliged few (the board & the bank).
YOU choose to believe the board is being on the level with you, whereas others choose to believe the board, as they have done in the past, may be misleading the supporters, as to just how bad things are.
Why would they do that? Maybe because Lowe wants to show how much he knows about football and the value of the academy, by playing all the kids?
I have said previously, on various forums, that Lowe is a gambler, when it comes to his chairmanship of SFC, as has been proven by his record of employing so many sub-standard managers, managers he thought IMO he could manipulate.
Many supporters believed he chose young & inexperienced managers so that he might influence their decisions, when picking the squad and starting eleven.
He is now employing someone who was so desperate to manage in the UK, that he paid off his own contract, and is subserviently trotting out the same guff as the board.

If you listened to Dave Bassetts comments, about Lowe trying to coerce Redknapp into picking kids every game, then even you should harbour some doubts as to what Lowe's intentions are.

In response to your final paragraph "My question to all of you then is, were you in charge instead of Lowe at the start of the season - what would you have done"

Before the season started I suggested that if the squad had to be trimmed then it would be more sensible to build a squad to include 6 or 7 experienced players & play the youngsters around them. I said from Day 1 that playing more than 4 or 5 kids in the team, week in, week out, would be an almighty gamble that could see us lose more games than we won.
I also suggested that if we could afford to pay 200k per week (for example) on wages, I would rather pay it to 20 decent players than 30 players that weren't up to standard or were not ready for the CCC.
I would have sought out a British manager, with some experience, who understands how the game is played in this country & how to use the loan system to bring in the right players at the right time, not bring in the wrong players just because they are young.
IMO the manager should be the single most important man at the club, when dealing with football matters. His word should be law when dictating the make up of his squad, although he should work in unison with his chairman to ensure the best deal is made.
Unfortunately I don't think Lowe understands just how important the manager is. IMO, in his world of business, the boards tend to dictate to the managers how their company is to be run, but it doesn't work like that in football.

If when the relevant accounts are released, it is proven that Lowe had no option but to take these actions, then I will put my hands up and admit I was wrong, but until that happens I will choose to believe that he is doing what he is doing for his own personal reasons.
Equally, if I am right I would hope you would be man enough to admit you were wrong.

Security word deny-soon.
Does this mean Derek might yet see the light? :-)

MikeC wrote:

Andyt66 wrote:

saint Compo wrote: I cannot subscribe to the anti-Lowe brigade's bigoted rantings (based more on class prejudice than common sense). The Club has to pursue the policy of fielding young players for financial reasons. Once Stern John got fit again, we had to lend him out because we can't afford his wages. We're in that much trouble. It wasn't Lowe who brought the Club to its financial knees. It was the short-lived Crouch regime which spent more money, in transfer fees and wages, on clapped out players than we could afford. The 10 men (not boys) who played their hearts out in the second half yesterday deserved a point. The referee was poor and the game is being wrecked by poor refereeing generally. We can play good football in midfield but we remain weak in defence - more must be done to strengthen there. Up front we suffer from an obvious inability to put the ball in the net but 2 strikers in a 4-4-2 formation would surely help. Where is Pekhart? He hasn't been given a proper chance. Perhaps he's not showing enough in training. But he's a tall lad and has greater physical presence than McGoldrick, Lallana and W-P. I am not very impressed with Lallana - he's been over-hyped. Let's see Pekhart leading the line and McGoldrick feeding off him. Gobern was out of his depth (again) yesterday. Jan should not have picked him in the first place after his poor show against Bristol City last week. At 17 he shows promise but needs another year or two before expecting a place in the starting XI. I am still hopeful the team can rise up the table if they work hard and stay positive. We all must. COYR

How can you possibly blame Leon Crouch for the disaster we have witnessed the past 5 years. Lowe created massive instability, as is evidenced by the ridiculous number of managers that have come and gone under his "leadership". He refused to invest in the team when it was most needed and we were relegated. Again he refused to utilize the parachute payment to fund player wages / transfers to build a team capable of an immediate return to the Premiership. Wilde spent all the money, not Crouch. I actually applauded Wildes efforts at the time, but unfortunately Burley wasted our chance to get out of theis division. Wilde has since shown his true colours by chumming up to the man he ran out of the club. Crouch brought in a manager in Pearson that restored belief and desire to the players, and saved us from certain relegation last year and offering hope for this season, but as usual, along comes Lowe to destroy that hope so he can do it his way again. I wonder Rupert, are we still a bigger club than Spurs? Pearson is enjoying success at Leicester, and our loss will be their gain.

I am glad to see you supported Wilde and now blame him. Just shows that fans are always right and the Board is always wrong. And the same old argument about why didn't Lowe invest any money - from where? Lowe's not some Russian oligarch with oil billions to spend on a toy. Why don't YOU put in £30-40m? That's just as ridiculous. In the 50 years I've been following the Saints, I can't remember anyone putting their hand in their own pocket to fund the club. Everyone from Mary Bates onwards ran it as a business, which means income and expenditure have to have more than a passing relationship to each other. Redknap got us relegated, Wilde and Crouch nearly bankrupted us and the players (finally) kept us up last season. Pearson's record with Saints was plain awful. Nice bloke, but didn't have a clue, and cost a fortune. Hope he has more luck where he is now. The bottom line is that the problems facing Saints and virtually every club other than the top half dozen in the premiership are caused by the very structure of football in the world. Unless and until a severe cap is placed on players' wages clubs will begin to go out of business, and then the wages will drop as there are more players chasing fewer jobs. It is all very well for players to say they need high wages to compensate for a short career, but the average person in the UK will earn maybe £1.5 in their lifetime. While players like BWP can earn that in two or three years, and Lampard in two or three months, clubs like Southampton will always struggle. We have a fan base now about the same as when we were in the third division - around 10,000. It grows while we are winning and shrinks when we lose. That is not enough to sustain the sort of team (and Chairman) that people posting on this board want. It would be nice if you could wave a magic wand - get rid of Lowe, appoint Wenger, spend £50m on new players, sack the incompetent Surman and so on. But it ain't going to happen. Or if it does it will be because we have been taken over by some arms dealer who wants to try to rehabilitate himself. Or am I thinking about Portsmouth? In the meantime stop wishing for what is out of your control and concentrate of giving 110 per cent for the team. That's what I expect of the players. That's what the players should expect of us.

How can you possibly be critical of Nigel Pearson. Do you seriously think the club would have stayed up with George Burley in charge? Did Pearson and Crouch not improve the team by bringing in Sullivan, Lucketti and Perry? The players played with passion for Pearson, because he leads by example. To expect first rate football from a manager taking over a team short on confidence, motivation and desire is ridiculous. Look at how well Leicester are doing this season. Please don't tell me it's easier in the lower divisions - we are living proof it's not. So either Pearson has a motivated squad, or credit to Leicester for keeping their squad together from last year, something Lowe should have done when we went down. Instead I had to watch his smug little mug tell everyone how clever he was by putting a clause in each players contracts that their wages would be cut in half in the event of relegation. How many stuck around to mount a promotion push? I'm no idiot Mike, I don't for 1 minute expect us to be competing with the rich clubs financially. I believe the instability of so many managers under Lowe speaks for itself. If we are so skint how can we afford 2 Chairman when we can't even afford a kitman anymore? Seems we only suffer financial difficulties AFTER Lowe and Wilde take their cut (unless of course they share 1 salary).
Regarding Michael Wilde, I was excited when he took over, thrilled when he made funds available for transfers, and both diasppointed and bemused when he stepped aside as Chairman. Why though would the man be so vocal about the need to remove the previous board, only to chum up with them so they could all be reinstated? Seems awfully strange to me. And to hear him blame Crouch for the financial trouble we are in is a disgrace - most of these high wage earners that we can no longer afford came in under Wildes time as Chairman. I have no problem with anyone if they hold their hand up and say "I screwed up", but Lowe and Wilde have never admitted to anything. Stand up and be a man, we all make mistakes, and those that succeed are those that learn from their mistakes. This lot are so arrogant they think their s**t doesn't stink.

most of you are missing the point it,s death by a thousand cuts, as soon as anyone offers any money for a decent player they go, Surman and Lalliana will go in January, only answer is a takeover or bankruptcy and a new manager

Hail Costa Baz couldn't have put it better myself!

I think the telling issue is that Lowe had kept in touch with Wotte during his exile from the board so his intention always was to bring the Dutch management in and use youth.

I have no doubt that a blend of youth and experience could have possibly worked with the youngsters being introduced slowly and educated gradually into the rigours of this league. To do it wholesale was crass stupidity by a Chairman who has a deluded vision that experience is too expensive and that the youngsters will do just fine.

I fear as the season goes on that we will struggle further and to the pressure will build placing a totally unfair burden on these tyros.

Jan has already hinted that some of the youngsters can't cope with three games in a week and looking at the run of games coming up, It will be nothing short of a miracle if we are still outside the relegation zone come Christmas.

The facts are that we are struggling, Lowe is a divisive influence both on the club and the fans and sadly until he leaves this club is in what looks like terminal decline.

Some of the rumours reaching me as regards the relationship with Barclays I hope or wide of the mark or we are in for a very bleak Christmas.

St Yorkie - I'm aware we lost thanks, I was there. And yes, it will get worse if we can't win our home games but would you have taken a 2-1 loss rather than what I was hoping to God wouldn't happen - a 4 or 5-0 thrashing??

Shazza - I've never said (nor will say) that we are flying. What I will say is that we are getting 110% commitment from the players and that is all you can ask.
Yes, I was disappointed with the score-line, disappointed with the standarda of refereeing and disappointed with the lack of points at this stage of the season.

But I was also very disappointed with the fact that some of the fans around me were so preoccupied with booing and shouting at the ref at the final whistle that they weren't applauding the effort and commitment put in by the players.

I was very proud of the players again - they put everything into the game and I'm not ashamed to say that at 2-0 down, I was expecting the worst. But they proved me wrong thankfully and they really did throw everything at the game but just weren't lucky enough.

But we are another 3 points away from safety. Thankfully Charlton, Watford and Norwich all lost but with Donny and Forest also picking up points, we're in for a few squeaky bum moments over the next few weeks.

Keep the faith, I'm positive that the second half of the season will be better for us once the players are into routines and getting used to playing as they are now.

I just hope we're not in for an embarrassement this weekend at Reading........

COYR!!!

Hercules Grytpype-Thynne wrote:

derek fo holbury wrote: Sadly I had to miss yesterday's match, and I really wished I could have been there to add my support. It does not mean I am a part time supporter, or flag me up as someone who picks and chooses the matches he will attend. It simply means I had a family commitment that meant I was unable to be there. For this reason I feel it inappropriate to pass comment on the match as I was not there. I will though try and answer some of the questions raised above, and also make observations about comments directed at me. I am a football supporter and the club I have supported for over 40 years is Southampton. I have no particular allegiance or love now for Rupert Lowe and nor was this the case during his previous tenure. I am aware he has made mistakes whilst at this club and done things in the past that were possibly not in the best interests of the club. it is also the case that he was accused of many things for which he was not guilty. I understand that the club is in dire financial straits and Rupert Lowe made everyone aware that extreme financial cutbacks were necessary to keep us away from administration. Part of those cutbacks involved removing many of the high wage earners from the payroll. This in turn meant that in the main we were going to have to rely on the young players at the club to step up to first team duties. He then employed a management team who had a proven track record of working relatively successfully with young boys. This team informed us at the very start they they were going to train the team in the Dutch style to incorporate 'total football' into their playing. In my opinion there was no alternative to removing the top earners, and so far this season the tactics of the new management team has shown some wonderful examples of football on the pitch. I think it is absolutely obvious to anyone with a knowledge of football that this is not an overnight project, and these boys are not going to have an immediate impact on the game. It is also obvious that we are going to lose more games than they win, but in my book it is worth it just to witness the improvemnet we are now seeing in the football skills of the players of this club. The boys are a revellation to me and I would far rather see a bunch of enthusiastic kids playing with skill, determination, and a desire to win, than what we have had to endure for the last couple of seasons. In those seasons we had to watch overpaid players stroll around the pitch showing no particular skills, and no desire to break sweat to win the honour of pulling on the red and white shirt. The evidence would seem to suggest that these players are improving and learning from their mistakes, and the same applies to their manager. It is fact that we are severely short on experience, and without doubt these kids would benefit from that experience. But we do not have that experience and cannot get it due to our financial position, so we all have to just get on with what we have got. I have a confidence that we have enough to stay in this division, and if we do I think it will be a major achievemnet by the kids in extremely difficult conditions. I also believe that the kids more than ever need the support and understanding of their fans Certainly the near 18,000 fans that so brillaintly backed them this weekend would suggest that the support is coming back, and that gives me great joy. I am of the opinion that the campaign to oust Lowe and at the same time criticise our players and their manager is a damaging, destructive, and negative force that is extremely unfair on these kids who are playing their hearts out for the club.. This opinion, I feel, is backed up by their inability to win home matches. My stance on the outcome is not something new, as anyone who knows me will confirm my beliefs since this season started. I have been saying all season that the best we can hope for this season is to avoid relegation, and then hopefully we would be able to keep most of the kids for the new campaign next season. Then, with a year under their belts playing together, and all being one year older, we would be far better placed to mount a challenge on the title race. I have always maintained that realistically it was going to take us two to three years to gain promotion to the Premiership where we belong. I believe we are on target, and playing some great football with some extremely talented kids under a very good coaching set-up, and that is enough for me to maintain my support for the Saints. I have endeavoured to write this article in a way that it would answer questions asked of me, whilst dealing with comments directed at my views. I will repeat what I have always said that I am entitled to views in exactly the same way anyone else who supports the club. It was also written in a way that would not deride anyone for their views, or portray me as someone who feels his views are more important than others. The intention was to answer raised questions without upsetting or annoying others, in the hope that they would respond in like fashion, so that reasoned debate could take place. However, I do just have this niggling feeling, that someone somewhere will find a reason to find something in this posting that offends them.

If a man pushed you in a river and then having pulled you out others claimed he was a hero for saving you would you believe it? Never ever forget that Rupert Lowe got us into this mess with a succession of very poor management decisions. He is not our saviour he is the cause of all our woes. Only the gullible would believe otherwise.

Spot on!

The thing is you have to ask yourself each and everyone, while this man is charge (and Turn coat Wilde)they have divided the supporters, not united them. There lies one of the biggest and fundamental problems!

To add to this Saints fans really do care and love their club, and are on the whole knowledgeable lot. So pain also divides opinion.

The problem is some fans are trying to be romantic and live in hope and want to belief. This only good to a point! If that dream is burst and the bounderys of that dream/hope keep moving. Then what is achived? What happens when our young stars see the pounds and glory else where? The best you can hope for is that we are still in this league and not worst. Then would you look to the next season and then the next and then the next. When dose it really stop and the pride is put back into our club?

P.S. please note that all fans that argue with points such as Derek, clearly state they still hope this gamble succedes, and this conveniently is missed. Though to date be are being stuffed. We are at the very wrong on the table. We have a very bad goal difference. We can not defend. We can not score at will. This is facts, and I see no signs of change only hopeful talk. Yes there is moments of pretty football, but that all it is, and very easy for a team to come to St Marys and take the points, and how they are!

Lowes Nemisis and others, I am one of the 94% who are really glad Lowe is in charge of the club.
Without Lowe taken over from the 'bunch' of supporters who thought they could run the club last year, there would be no club now.
Also Lowe is only a Chairman of a Company, who not only answers to the Shareholders, but rules and regulations of management.
There is and always have been a Board of Directors who also have their say in the running of the Business.
Lowe could of been out voted on any issue(New Managers etc.) at any time. So all you fans who say its only Lowes fault, where is your proof, or are you party to the Board meetings?.
Many fans have accused Lowe of not spending money on players before we were relegated, yet Bassett stated that Redknapp was happy with the players he asked for and got. Others have stated he 'lined' his own pockets with Company money. Please post your proof, I would interested to read it.
When the next financial statement is issued(after it has been Audited) you may see how indebt we really are.
So sadly Lowes Nemisis and others if Lowe leaves the club, it will be in very serious decline.
But of course lots of you all know of 'someone' waiting for the club to go into administration, before buying it and investing £Ms to keep the fans happy.

Satellite wrote:
Lowes Nemisis and others, I am one of the 94% who are really glad Lowe is in charge of the club. Without Lowe taken over from the 'bunch' of supporters who thought they could run the club last year, there would be no club now. Also Lowe is only a Chairman of a Company, who not only answers to the Shareholders, but rules and regulations of management. There is and always have been a Board of Directors who also have their say in the running of the Business. Lowe could of been out voted on any issue(New Managers etc.) at any time. So all you fans who say its only Lowes fault, where is your proof, or are you party to the Board meetings?. Many fans have accused Lowe of not spending money on players before we were relegated, yet Bassett stated that Redknapp was happy with the players he asked for and got. Others have stated he 'lined' his own pockets with Company money. Please post your proof, I would interested to read it. When the next financial statement is issued(after it has been Audited) you may see how indebt we really are. So sadly Lowes Nemisis and others if Lowe leaves the club, it will be in very serious decline. But of course lots of you all know of 'someone' waiting for the club to go into administration, before buying it and investing £Ms to keep the fans happy.

You make bold statements, and yet you have no proof.

One 100% fact is Lowe has been involved for most of at where we are now. He is the man at the helm for most of that, and is responsable as head. If he is not accountable as you try to imply, then what the hell is he chairman for? You talk like his hands have been tied through all of this. His discision making with the merry go round of managers and other things is guided directly or indirectly. Reading your post would suggest that we are not in need of Lowe at all!

Satellite wrote:
Lowes Nemisis and others, I am one of the 94% who are really glad Lowe is in charge of the club. Without Lowe taken over from the 'bunch' of supporters who thought they could run the club last year, there would be no club now. Also Lowe is only a Chairman of a Company, who not only answers to the Shareholders, but rules and regulations of management. There is and always have been a Board of Directors who also have their say in the running of the Business. Lowe could of been out voted on any issue(New Managers etc.) at any time. So all you fans who say its only Lowes fault, where is your proof, or are you party to the Board meetings?. Many fans have accused Lowe of not spending money on players before we were relegated, yet Bassett stated that Redknapp was happy with the players he asked for and got. Others have stated he 'lined' his own pockets with Company money. Please post your proof, I would interested to read it. When the next financial statement is issued(after it has been Audited) you may see how indebt we really are. So sadly Lowes Nemisis and others if Lowe leaves the club, it will be in very serious decline. But of course lots of you all know of 'someone' waiting for the club to go into administration, before buying it and investing £Ms to keep the fans happy.

Surely if 94% of fans were happy with RL, SMS would be 94% full on matchdays. I believe the average gate is probably somewhere below 50% at the moment. Don't forget that ST holders get counted whether they attend or not.
Also, can posters give it a rest with the "stay aways are starving the club of funds" argument and put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. I'm not going through all my reasons again but I decided that I wouldn't attend SMS again until RL was gone for good and I think that many thousands of fans feel the same. I will be back, (with thousands more fans), at SMS the first match after RL is gone, so in my book HE is starving the club of much needed income with his bloody-minded refusal to do what would be in the clubs best interest. Resign, go and don't come back.

Lowes Nemisis wrote:
Hail Costa Baz couldn't have put it better myself! I think the telling issue is that Lowe had kept in touch with Wotte during his exile from the board so his intention always was to bring the Dutch management in and use youth. I have no doubt that a blend of youth and experience could have possibly worked with the youngsters being introduced slowly and educated gradually into the rigours of this league. To do it wholesale was crass stupidity by a Chairman who has a deluded vision that experience is too expensive and that the youngsters will do just fine. I fear as the season goes on that we will struggle further and to the pressure will build placing a totally unfair burden on these tyros. Jan has already hinted that some of the youngsters can't cope with three games in a week and looking at the run of games coming up, It will be nothing short of a miracle if we are still outside the relegation zone come Christmas. The facts are that we are struggling, Lowe is a divisive influence both on the club and the fans and sadly until he leaves this club is in what looks like terminal decline. Some of the rumours reaching me as regards the relationship with Barclays I hope or wide of the mark or we are in for a very bleak Christmas.

Any chance of voicing the "rumours"?

As I understand it, should the finances be as bad as Lowe claims and it therefore becomes necessary go into administration, then it would be better for the future of SFC to go into administration before Dec 31. Saints would receive a 10 point penalty, which at that stage of the season might still be recoverable, should the club be picked up by the right man.
If we go into administration after Dec 31, then I understand the penalty is 17 points deducted, which would be, IMO, insurmountable.

I am speculating now, but I would imagine administration will be avoided, by selling off players.

If the press are to be believed then we can expect offers to be made for Surman, Schneiderlin & Lallana, plus on current form I would expect bids to be made for Davis as well.

If (when?) this occurs, in Jan, it will be interesting to see if the 2nd half of the season follows the same pattern as the 1st half, with the emphasis placed on recruiting more young players, to replace those that leave.

I hate to have to be the one to point out the blinkin' obvious, but to those on this forum who haven't grasped the way a league works yet, Wolves are at the top because they beat most of the teams below them, Saints are near the bottom because thay only beat some of the teams above and below them.

Given the above, the balance of probability would favour Wolves to beat the Saints.

To those who still see this as a shock, please be warned, the same result will probably occur next week when we play Reading, who are 4th.

It won't be a surprise, and it doesn't merit calling for the heads of all and sundry at the club. It is just a fact that not every team is going to finish in the top half of the table and those that don't will finish lower down because they lose more than they win.

It's tough, but to those who are struggling to deal with it I ask, where were you and how did you cope during all those seasons when we were doing the same in the Premiership?

Actually, don't reply to that. On reflection, I'm not that interested.

Jezza - football is indeed a funny old game but in essence (as you say) it has never changed.

You play against the rest of the teams in your division and then at the end it is the team who gets most points who become champions. Those in trouble will always be the teams who gain least points.

At the moment we are one of the teams in trouble, but all the pessimistic people would do well to examine the league tables over the past few seasons befor becoming gloomy about our chances of survival. How many of the teams in trouble at this point last season for example actually went down, and how many of them finished in a position that we would dearly love to find ourselves in come May.

It has to be said that we are not a million miles off the play off positions and a few wins would see us rise dramtically in the table.

Saturday will have won over some of the doubters, because the lads showed their skills and also demonstrated that they had guts and determination to mount a comeback in the second half. They also created a number of goal scoring opportunities against very tasty opposition.

We still have good players out, and the lads and the manager are going through a huge learning curve.

Give them time but above all - give them support

Satellite wrote:
Lowes Nemisis and others, I am one of the 94% who are really glad Lowe is in charge of the club. Without Lowe taken over from the 'bunch' of supporters who thought they could run the club last year, there would be no club now. Also Lowe is only a Chairman of a Company, who not only answers to the Shareholders, but rules and regulations of management. There is and always have been a Board of Directors who also have their say in the running of the Business. Lowe could of been out voted on any issue(New Managers etc.) at any time. So all you fans who say its only Lowes fault, where is your proof, or are you party to the Board meetings?. Many fans have accused Lowe of not spending money on players before we were relegated, yet Bassett stated that Redknapp was happy with the players he asked for and got. Others have stated he 'lined' his own pockets with Company money. Please post your proof, I would interested to read it. When the next financial statement is issued(after it has been Audited) you may see how indebt we really are. So sadly Lowes Nemisis and others if Lowe leaves the club, it will be in very serious decline. But of course lots of you all know of 'someone' waiting for the club to go into administration, before buying it and investing £Ms to keep the fans happy.

Satellite,

I am a shareholder and interestingly I (along with many other shareholders) have not voted for the current board or indeed have had an opportunity via an AGM to ask pertinent questions of the current chairman.

Mr Lowe attained his position through the manipulation of his family and friends shareholding and of course getting the "kingmaker" Michael Wilde on board.

If Mr Lowe ever lost Wildes patronage he would be out plain and simple.

As for the board of Directors offering some sort of "balance" to Lowes decision making then you really do not understand what has gone on in that boardroom over the past few years. Just look at the current board and tell me who on that board is not a Lowe appointment and are they likely to bite the hand that feeds them?

In terms of buying players cast your mind back to when Souness was manager, we could have had Tore Andre Flo as well as Claus Lundekvam but if my memory serves me right "The club" wouldn't pay the extra £100k required to get him.

In terms of Lowe lining his own pockets well that is a moot point. I have no doubt that his current "salary" and pension payments are not commensurate with the state that the club is in and if he were to be on performance related pay (that which he favoured most for players!)he would owe the club money!

And if Lowe leaves I would agree the club would be in serious decline it would probably be in administration!

Lowes Nemesis

We keep on hearing (ad nauseum) about your shareholding - is this not something you chose to do, and is there not always a risk in this kind of undertaking. Anyway, is this not a personal matter between you and the Board, and in essence not a damned thing to do with football and the team of players.

You keep harping on about what Lowe did in the past that was not good, yet you consistently choose to ignore or deny anything that the man did that was good for the club, and believe me these things do exist. Unfortunately most of them are not connected to bloody finance or shares.

What would you be doing now if you had bought shares in say BT and felt you had a bad deal. Have they got a website where you could drip on about it?

You tell us in one breath that you have not had the opportunity to voice your disapproval at Board level, then go on to have us believe you know carte blanche what is happening behind closed doors in the board room. Can't have it both ways.

Can't wait until the financial figure become public knowledge, to see just how close you get with your assumptive beliefs regarding Lowe and Wildes take whilst in control this time around.

As for your comments on Lowe leaving and causing us to be in administration, well you are in a win win situation there aren't you. You favour the club dipping out financially by your boycotting beliefs, and then it will be Lowes fault, and get this, it will be a double whammy because Lowe will also be directly and solely responsible for our administration.

Oh please.

derek fo holbury wrote:
Lowes Nemesis We keep on hearing (ad nauseum) about your shareholding - is this not something you chose to do, and is there not always a risk in this kind of undertaking. Anyway, is this not a personal matter between you and the Board, and in essence not a damned thing to do with football and the team of players. You keep harping on about what Lowe did in the past that was not good, yet you consistently choose to ignore or deny anything that the man did that was good for the club, and believe me these things do exist. Unfortunately most of them are not connected to bloody finance or shares. What would you be doing now if you had bought shares in say BT and felt you had a bad deal. Have they got a website where you could drip on about it? You tell us in one breath that you have not had the opportunity to voice your disapproval at Board level, then go on to have us believe you know carte blanche what is happening behind closed doors in the board room. Can't have it both ways. Can't wait until the financial figure become public knowledge, to see just how close you get with your assumptive beliefs regarding Lowe and Wildes take whilst in control this time around. As for your comments on Lowe leaving and causing us to be in administration, well you are in a win win situation there aren't you. You favour the club dipping out financially by your boycotting beliefs, and then it will be Lowes fault, and get this, it will be a double whammy because Lowe will also be directly and solely responsible for our administration. Oh please.

You quite simply is Lowe himself, and if not you sholud be!

No one has said he has not done any good for the club, and it is very funny you don't name one. But for sure what ever good he has/has not done for the club, is far out weighed by all that he has done wrong. i.e. in his ten plus tenure he has not found investment in the stock market as promised at the begining, or out of the stock market to take us onto the next level. Or at least pay for the debt of the stadium (which for the record could of been manage properly). i.e. His constant merry go round of managers, and in that giving to young unproven managers like Wigley and Gray. i.e. While at them helm there has been a very obvious dicline to where we are now. Even though the warning signs keeped coming up to do something, and then to be ignored or managed badly!

Derek, can you really say that we are in this league fighting religation to a lower league, has not been anything what so ever to do with Lowe and his rule? If not, what is the point of having him as chairman?

Simple point Derek you can argue pros and cons about Lowe all day. He has divided the fans and not united. He has taken us into debt (yes not all directly with him, but in the main). He has been in charge through religation. There is better chairmen out there who are more productive than this man has showen!

Derek of Holbury,

I am happy to debate with you any of the points you have raised in fact have tried on more than one occasion but, i am beginning to realise that you either fail to understand the context of the counter arument or and I think this is more likely, because it doesn't agree with your somewhat rose tinted perspective then you dismiss it on the basis that there is no proof!

My argument in respect of the shareholding was to demonstrate that the shareholders do not hold as much sway as you believe and indeed the make up of the SLH board is not going to act as a balance to Lowes personal views and strategies.

I am sorry you fail to understand but then there's none more blind that those that can't see!

Anyway, if you would like to list the Lowe positives then I am happy to take them on baord...

Saint - I really think that someone who begins his post in such a childish manner deserves no response whatever. Am leaving now as I fear there is a dummy coming in my direction.

Lowes Nemesis - You say you are happy to debate any of my points, and then you don't. You also say you have tried on several occasions - perhaps you could direct me to them because I cannot find them.

As for the rose tinted specs bit - grow up. You are in danger of emulating Saint with childish behaviour. Why the need yet again to be aggressive and insulting? I have lost count of the number of times I have posted my thoughts about what he has done for the club that has been beneficial or positive - how come you always seem to miss them.

As I recall I have also listed several statements made by yourself and other Lowe haters, and asked for proof of your alegations, and to date there has not been one answer from any of you. How is this me dismissing anything - I am just asking for proof of what you state. What a nonesense if we all came on this site making outrageous claims and accusations and everyone simply believed them as true.

Talking of nonsense, what about your claim of me not understanding the counter argument and dismissing it if it does not agree with my views. Do you rsally read all of the posts or do you selectively pick out the bits you feel you can argue about.

I again have repeated numerous times that I have a right to a view and so do you. I have even backed down on some of the things I have written when I have been proven wrong or incorrect and have on occasions agreed to disagree when I have had opposing views. I have never dismissed someone else's view just because it differed from mine. I have on loads of occasions asked posters to verify information they have given out when I either cannot understand it or when it appears possibly to have no authenticity.

I do not suppose you have ever had to retract a statement or accept you got it wrong because I doubt you ever get anything wrong do you.

That is it and I expect I will have to wait for ever to get the answers to questions I have asked or proof of some of the things I have requested that you verify.

This is the blind man wearing rose tinted specs signing off

derek fo holbury wrote:
Saint - I really think that someone who begins his post in such a childish manner deserves no response whatever. Am leaving now as I fear there is a dummy coming in my direction. Lowes Nemesis - You say you are happy to debate any of my points, and then you don't. You also say you have tried on several occasions - perhaps you could direct me to them because I cannot find them. As for the rose tinted specs bit - grow up. You are in danger of emulating Saint with childish behaviour. Why the need yet again to be aggressive and insulting? I have lost count of the number of times I have posted my thoughts about what he has done for the club that has been beneficial or positive - how come you always seem to miss them. As I recall I have also listed several statements made by yourself and other Lowe haters, and asked for proof of your alegations, and to date there has not been one answer from any of you. How is this me dismissing anything - I am just asking for proof of what you state. What a nonesense if we all came on this site making outrageous claims and accusations and everyone simply believed them as true. Talking of nonsense, what about your claim of me not understanding the counter argument and dismissing it if it does not agree with my views. Do you rsally read all of the posts or do you selectively pick out the bits you feel you can argue about. I again have repeated numerous times that I have a right to a view and so do you. I have even backed down on some of the things I have written when I have been proven wrong or incorrect and have on occasions agreed to disagree when I have had opposing views. I have never dismissed someone else's view just because it differed from mine. I have on loads of occasions asked posters to verify information they have given out when I either cannot understand it or when it appears possibly to have no authenticity. I do not suppose you have ever had to retract a statement or accept you got it wrong because I doubt you ever get anything wrong do you. That is it and I expect I will have to wait for ever to get the answers to questions I have asked or proof of some of the things I have requested that you verify. This is the blind man wearing rose tinted specs signing off

Derek if this is not a childish spat! Then what is?

You act like this all the time, when you're challenged on your remakes, and remakes is all you give, and try and force it on others!

Reading you lastest spat, it is full on hypocritical statements and counter statements about what your trying to claim. Go on re-read it! You beleif you really trying to put out there how cool you are, and blatantly attack and not debate.

Grow up...........

This sounds so much like pot calling the kettle black, and you always get so angry.

Once again you have accused me of things without actually telling me what they are.

Lets make this easy shall we.

You tell me what I am saying that you think is so wrong.

Show me exactly what it is that you find hypocrytical about what I say

Ask me any questions you want answers for

Tell me to explain something I have said that you cannot understand.

Right, there is not meant to be anything in there that is having a go at you, or meant to be hypocrytical, and forceful, or trying to make myself look cool.

I don't understand why you are making these allegations about the last piece I wrote, so come back to me with some answers/questions and I will do my best to answer them in an honest and fair way so perhaps we can both understand where the other person is coming from.

This is a genuine attempt at trying to get into some form of reasonable debate

Derek of Holbury wrote:
This sounds so much like pot calling the kettle black, and you always get so angry. Once again you have accused me of things without actually telling me what they are. Lets make this easy shall we. You tell me what I am saying that you think is so wrong. Show me exactly what it is that you find hypocrytical about what I say Ask me any questions you want answers for Tell me to explain something I have said that you cannot understand. Right, there is not meant to be anything in there that is having a go at you, or meant to be hypocrytical, and forceful, or trying to make myself look cool. I don't understand why you are making these allegations about the last piece I wrote, so come back to me with some answers/questions and I will do my best to answer them in an honest and fair way so perhaps we can both understand where the other person is coming from. This is a genuine attempt at trying to get into some form of reasonable debate

Here we go, though I will not go through all as it will get complicated.

You have insulted me twice with childish remarks towards me, yet you costantly claim I and others such as Nemesis to be insulting you! And you continue now by calling kettle and pot remark!

You also are condecending too often with remarks like "lets make it eay shall we".

You also make many assumption on others, who only wish to challegne your points of view. i.e. you claim I am always angry at you. For the record, I am not. You do get me frustrated at times with your childish ways and your uncompromising attidue. Here again something you can not deny, the fans are divided, under Lowe leadership

You claim and counter claim about all the good Lowe has done. Yet you refuse to actuall name them now, when you have been challenged to do so by sevual posters. Add to this, you do not acknowledge that posters have agreed the man has done some good, though it is far out weighed with the missmanagerment he has over seen. Tell us the good you think Lowe has done, then we can debate it?

You ask for proof constantly, yet you actually provide none! The reason is that no fan can provide proof, unless they were on the board and stole manual scripts.

You claim to retract some of your statements, when and where have you done this? Though you at the same time demand others should follow your lead and do the same.

Finally you claim to debate, but you simply do not.Other posters are simply trying to do that with you, yet with your blinkered attitude you ignore this fact.

You also claim I have a silly name and not go to games, and you are so wrong about going to games at least.

Here it is Derek, we are not in the prem, our neighbours are. We have very little money, and before you argue again. This is over many years demise, not just this season.We are as a team being hamered and more of a worry, losing at home is a habit now.We have very good youngerster, but you will not win nothing with youth alone. You get no points for pretty patches of footy if you don't put it in the net, and defend. You will get nil points! You and others to be fair are looking to the next season. Though this is daft in many ways! We were here last season and the season before for the last ten years! When will it stop! Do you think that we will keep all the young and wonderful talent we've got when the money and possible honours is flashed? Ask youself why are the fans so divided with Lowe at the helm? This and do not mistake it, it is a massive gamble with our future by Lowe. You can not argue that there is better chairmen out there!

We are both Saints fans and care, please remenber that and don't get angry with me?