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Stakes upped by Crouch in Saints blame game


FORMER SAINTS chairman Leon Crouch has hit back at criticisms from the men who replaced him in power.

Crouch insists he had come up with a plan that was supported by Barclays Bank and that crowds would have stayed at over 20,000 this season had Nigel Pearson been kept on.

Rupert Lowe and Michael Wilde returned to power at Crouch and his board’s expense back in May.

Both Lowe and Wilde said that last week’s news that Saints lost £4.9m in the financial year ending June 30, despite bringing in over £12m from selling players, showed why they had to make their controversial return.

In his chairman’s statement in the accounts, Lowe was scathing of the fact “the previous board” had run a player/ coach wage bill of 81 per cent of the club’s income.

Responsibility Crouch only took over as the football club board chairman last December, midway through the financial year, following the departures of executives Jim Hone, Ken Dulieu and Andy Oldknow.

That trio quit – with an estimated £500,000 pay off between them – when Crouch, Lowe and Wilde failed to back their plan for SISU to take over the club.

Crouch was never involved in any wage negotiations or contract setting prior to becoming football board chairman a year ago.

Crouch added: “It was interesting to read Michael Wilde’s comments (in last Tuesday’s Daily Echo, November 25) setting up Rupert Lowe and himself as the club’s saviours when, in fact, they must share a major proportion of the responsibility for the club’s unfortunate demise.

“It must be agreed that 07/08 was a very difficult season and we were fortunate to remain in the Championship.

“It is important to look at the whole situation and not just be deflected by isolated statements.

There is no doubt that Rupert Lowe’s reign at the club resulted in our relegation after 27 years in the top flight.

“Despite receiving tens of millions from player transfers, television, sponsorship revenues and packed houses at St Mary’s, all we were left with when Rupert departed was the second year parachute payment.

“I do not believe that Harry Redknapp was given a fair chance with only £90,000 spent on Ricardo Fuller (in the summer of 2005 following relegation).

“Michael Wilde appeared on the radar and bought 16 per cent of SFC and formed an alliance with Wiseman, Hunt, Gordon, Thompson, Corbett, McMenemy and Trant.

“As stated in his manifesto, “Planning for Success”, we were convinced by his assurance that he had investors sitting on the fence.

“As soon as he took over, after the second or third board meeting, I realised there were no investors waiting in the wings.”

Crouch’s comments echo a statement released to the Stock Exchange by Southampton Leisure Holdings last December following Hone, Dulieu and Oldknow’s resignations.

That said: “The common expectation was that Michael Wilde and his associates would secure the investment of substantial funds to help put the company back on a sound financial footing and greatly enhance the prospects of winning promotion.

“Regrettably, the fact that such funds never materialised caused severe and continuous friction amongst the directors.”

Crouch was booted off the football club board twice in the space of 12 months.

First, he was voted off it in the summer of 2007 by Hone, Dulieu, Oldknow, operations manager Lee Hoos and finance director David Jones.

Crouch had been appointed Wilde’s successor as football board chairman in February 2007 following the former’s resignation.

“As we did not get promoted (in 2006/07), I insisted on the implementation of some cost cutting measures, which were approved by the board, the bank and auditors in Sept 2006,” Crouch recalled.

“Unfortunately the executives did not share this view and I was overruled.

“There was a lot of animosity between certain non-executives and executives who did not want to implement what I called Plan B.

“It was well documented that I fell out of favour with the executives because of my stance. At that time, they had control and sacked me.”

When told of Crouch’s comments, a Saints spokesman said: “The club will not be drawn into debate over this issue. As far as we are concerned, the issue of the financial accounts has been dealt with.

“We are pleased that Mr Crouch is enjoying watching the fantastic displays that our young squad have been providing, and are confident we will be able to improve on the encouraging start we have made.”


Your Say YourEcho

Ozmosis, Southampton says...
7:52am Wed 3 Dec 08

**** about each other all you like, but the facts speak for themselves. The finances aren't great, so none of you were the saviours you thought you were.

I wonder if Mike Ashley would be interested in a South Coast club once he's off-loaded Newcastle?

wonder weasel, southampton says...
7:53am Wed 3 Dec 08

sooner all 3 are out of Southampton the better ....why is it every time when saints are coming up to a really important time of a season all the talk is about the infighting with these 3 big kids

Chris1991, Marchwood says...
7:54am Wed 3 Dec 08

Crouch came in trowing his money around and telling every one how he knew best.

He didn't.

His ego has cost him over £1 million but he'd gladly give away all his shares for free to the right man. Yer Right.

Ozmosis, Southampton says...
7:54am Wed 3 Dec 08

The censored word in my first post is "bit-ch". I can understand why it's blocked, but in the context I've used it, it's perfectly acceptable IMO

Garynate, Fawley says...
8:00am Wed 3 Dec 08

“We are pleased that Mr Crouch is enjoying watching the fantastic displays that our young squad have been providing, and are confident we will be able to improve on the encouraging start we have made.”

You have got to be kidding!! What encouraging start is that?!? We are just above the relegation zone and to be honest, We are just not good enough!! Sort it out and quick.


St.Yorkie, Pocklington says...
8:00am Wed 3 Dec 08

All three have failed and yet they have control of "OUR" football club. Perhaps that's where we are all going wrong referring to is as "OURS"?
I think that's why the boycott is so strong. People have had enough - I know I certainly have!
It's no mistake people on here refer to it as Lowe FC...I'm half expecting the club crest to change shortly. The football being replaced by a head shot of dear old Rupes under the halo...that would reflect the state of the club...a football being replaced by a picture of the chairman of a plc!!!

UTS, says...
8:36am Wed 3 Dec 08

Well done Leon about time somehow highlighted the crap being knocked out by Wilde and Lowe.

Its been a total disgrace whats been said by the failed duo since May and is built on lies and spin.

How anyone can say anything about LC with just six months of power inheriting the mess by Lowe and Wilde is hilarious !

How can anyone salvage the club in 20 weeks !

This club would of been better off with Pearson as manager and Wilde and Lowe selling up for good.

As for the 'fantastic displays' LOL

Just shows how 'PR Spin' is the foundation of Lowe. Maybe im dreaming that we are doing worse than last season and been in the bottom six since August ! A relegation battle for six months of the season !!


SFC4EVA, Southampton says...
9:58am Wed 3 Dec 08

Why do the echo run stories like this?! Cheap shots at the club that is in dire straits!

Dave Juson, Freemantle says...
10:04am Wed 3 Dec 08

Unbelievably, there isn't an annual award for posting the most consistently boring, misinformed, misguided, defeatist and depressing observations about the Saints on this website, but I urge the Echo to institute one and I would like to nominate both UTS and St Yorkie.

Invidia, southampton says...
10:18am Wed 3 Dec 08

Can someone explain why people think that RL is such a good business man when he ignores the very basic business principles, that is to look after your client base (fans). He riducules his main source of income (fans) and will not listen to what they want as he knows best. It brings to mind the failure of Gerald Ratner the jeweller, he ridiculed his customers and paid a heavy price for it, lets hope that RL falls on his sword soon

St.Yorkie, Pocklington says...
10:21am Wed 3 Dec 08

Consistent - but not boring!
Misinformed?
I just tell as I believe I see it - I'm not in the know or pretend to be...no record to change.
"Marching on together" - oh no that's a Leeds anthem!

damoose, someplace thats cold says...
10:21am Wed 3 Dec 08

Yawnnnnnnnnnn! move on

Portswood Pete, Portswood says...
10:54am Wed 3 Dec 08

Over 20,000 if NP stayed Leon? I doubt it very much mate. I would have given NP a chance this season but would he have done better with what we have? Who knows. I know one thing for sure, I'll be supporting Saints for the rest of my life, it's a pity supporters like you Leon couldn't just support the club as well, this sort of thing does nothing to hel anyone.

Invidia, southampton says...
11:00am Wed 3 Dec 08

I think you will find Portswood Pete it was RL who had the first swipe in this latest bit of gossip

the ref, southampton says...
11:10am Wed 3 Dec 08

Do`es this make Leon a nuckle dragging, bed wetting,vocal minority?Maybe DoH and co.might like to comment,they seem awfully quite today.I wait with anticipation for their forthright and better than thou replie`s.

couzzy, southampton says...
11:41am Wed 3 Dec 08

Here’s a novel ideal. How about the three of you lock yourselves away in a boardroom and sort out this mess amongst yourselves . You are all equally as embarrassing for reducing our current plight to that of what can only be described as a circus. Any potential investor must be looking at what’s going on here and running a mile and its because of all of your pretentious and quite frankly shocking ego’s . You all say you care about the club and for what it’s worth I don’t deny Crouch’s sincerity having seen him at a few away games sitting with us so why , if you care so deeply come up with a solution? There’s no doubt about your acumen when it comes to business but in all honesty when it comes to football you are as clueless as one another. This is not a points scoring contest, this is OUR football club!!!

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
11:53am Wed 3 Dec 08

I did promise myself as soon as I read the headline that I would not actually read the article - and also promised myself that I would make no comment.

However, I was goaded into a response by someone asking where I was, and that I was quiet.

Reason - I am bored rigid reading the same old negatives from the same old boring posters, and this story is just more of the same old nonsense. You know - he said, I said, I think .... yawn bloody yawn

My only comment - read the posts you Albies. It is not just my long winded boring posts you will find that are being positive. Take out duplications from the usual Anti Lowe crew and you will find there are far more of us positive chaps around than there are of your lot.

Can't you understand that the majority in this city who have an interest in the club are sick to the stomach with your rantings and the whole sorry affair.

We just want to support our football team, go to the matches and actually talk about what the lads do on the pitch with a degree of honesty.

We keep on keeping the faith

Nuff said

Help The Saints, Southampton says...
12:40pm Wed 3 Dec 08

I think that I'm right when I say that some "Rose Tinted" glass wearing "True Fans" suggested that Lowe was the one who had come up with a plan to save SFC and it was only his accute business accumin that allowed SFC to do this and that his plan was the only plan that the bank backed......ok ok maybe I've over done it slightly with the poetic licensing BUT the point here is this, regardless of whether or not you like Lowe/Wilde/Crouch etc the club has undergone yet more disruptive change when there was no need.
SFV has changed the board, the manager and the team. Maybe some team changes were inevitable but the truth appears to be that Crouch had the backing of the Bank, wanted to introduce cost savings in 2007 (Lowe isn't the only one with Business accumin by the looks of it), had a plan that the bank supported, wanted to keep Pearson who arguably had won the majority of the fans over and lastly SMS was full on the last game of the season.
In my humble opinion, change was not needed at SFC, change has not moved the club forward, change has gambled with a risky "experiment" that only time will tell how it works out but lastly change has decreased the likelyhood of anyone investing in SFC due to who is on the board now and their past record.
I am not saying Crouch was the saviour or would have been able to finance SFC back to the Prem but I would say that he is more likely to attract investment than Lowe and Wilde and he didn't do any worse than Lowe even though Lowe had 10 yeard to learn from hismistakes and get something right.

St.Yorkie, Pocklington says...
12:42pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Hardly (isn't that just down the road from you?) nuff said...you said nothing at all!
I have a solution to this - it's quite simple. Let's go back to the good old days when stories in the paper about Saints were reserved for Friday nights when the discussion was on team selection for the following day. Updates on injuries and all that.
I love it three stories yesterday about Man U game, today 3-stories rallying the troops by Leon!
As Dezil says... Lovin' it, lovin' it, lovin' it!

Derek apart from matchdays when the whole of the city should unite behind the team - what is there to be positive about?

Oh yes I remember all the A L Bies as you call them (I don't include myself in their bile spitting group) are so negative...let's have some positive spin form someone probably educated at Hardley Comprehensive (like most of your posts!)
PS Derek this is very tongue in cheek and not a personal attack - it's an attempt at humour!!!
Password...acid-what
?

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
1:11pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Yorkie - read and re-read your post, as I quite often have to. You do make it difficult to know which side you dress.

Actually, no I did not attend Hardley school, I emigrated to the Waterside some year ago but my formative years were spent much closer to the Dell (and SMS) than where I currently reside. Now I fully expect someone to come on and criticise me for that or call me arrogant.

You ask what there is to be positive about

Plenty of room in the Stadium for the occasional visitor

Tickets readily available without the need for queueing

All the overpaid deadwood finally removed from the club

An excellent bunch of lads playing really good football and improving all the time

A coach who knows what football means and does not just sit back and take the cash whilst a bunch of overpaid clods just hoof the ball upfield each match

A fanbase that really understand the situation and still think it is worthwhile attending the matches to get behind their team

A fanbase of supporters (as above)that is growing day by day

Moving up the table slowly

Man UTD in the cup at home and on TV

Just like you - some tongue in cheek, but the others are valid.

I cannot make you positive and would not even try with the hardened ALBies, as they have their own agenda. However, I do sincerely believe that the standard of football being played by our lads is far superior to anything I have seen us play in years - and that gets me excited and gives me hope.

Isn't that what supporting is all about

UTS, says...
1:16pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Dave Juson wrote:
Unbelievably, there isn't an annual award for posting the most consistently boring, misinformed, misguided, defeatist and depressing observations about the Saints on this website, but I urge the Echo to institute one and I would like to nominate both UTS and St Yorkie.
Oh and you know differenet then mush ? Pathetic little twerp who sucked Lowes plums in 2006. Saints 'historian' nothing more than a Judas.

UTS, says...
1:18pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Derel of holbury you have been outed as 'internet troll' ie a wind up merchant.

UTS, says...
1:22pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Dave Juson wrote:
Unbelievably, there isn't an annual award for posting the most consistently boring, misinformed, misguided, defeatist and depressing observations about the Saints on this website, but I urge the Echo to institute one and I would like to nominate both UTS and St Yorkie.
Well Juson i found it.

This is your misinformed garbage that was used by Rupert Lowe as a PR stunt for the OS in 2006.

It would appear Holley/Chalk/Bull are true historian and your just a Lowe luvvie mug.

http://www.saintsfc.
co.uk/?page_id=6244


'Misinformed' he says.. yeah right

St.Yorkie, Pocklington says...
1:46pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Derek
You are right - the deadwood has gone.
The football is infinitely more entertaining.
Two very positive things to report...
However the plenty of room at SMS and plenty of tickets applied the first season we got relegated. The problem was no one saw the fine detail at the time. The dross that was being served up for the majority of last season was down to it was all we could afford and that near enough got us relegated. Apart from the absolute rubbish that was played - there was no team, no spirit and no passion. At least when it came to the boil - Pearson got some of that back!
We had a full house at SMS against Sheff.Utd. Have you asked yourself why? More concerning is why so many haven't bothered this season?

sainthog7, southampton says...
1:54pm Wed 3 Dec 08

I know who I belive but I feel they have all let us I can go on&on its spitting in the wind but as our club suffers mr lowe askem&co sit on their fat wallets on the money they made on the take over&since plus the money plus money wasted in compensation to the managers wrongly appointed! I see the AGM is on 23rd of december this should lively SUPPORT THE SAINTS HATE THE BOARD!

Dave Juson, Freemantle says...
2:13pm Wed 3 Dec 08

UTS wrote:
Dave Juson wrote: Unbelievably, there isn't an annual award for posting the most consistently boring, misinformed, misguided, defeatist and depressing observations about the Saints on this website, but I urge the Echo to institute one and I would like to nominate both UTS and St Yorkie.
Well Juson i found it. This is your misinformed garbage that was used by Rupert Lowe as a PR stunt for the OS in 2006. It would appear Holley/Chalk/Bull are true historian and your just a Lowe luvvie mug. http://www.saintsfc. co.uk/?page_id=6244 'Misinformed' he says.. yeah right
The letter in question was originally published in the Echo, heavily - and dishonestly - edited, and only appeared on the official Club website after my complaint was ignored. Echo editor Ian Murray threatened to sue the Club if it wasn’t removed. Well it’s still there, the Echo still hasn’t sued and I stand by every word.
As for your estimation of my work: ha.

St.Yorkie, Pocklington says...
2:22pm Wed 3 Dec 08

AGM on 23rd December 2008?
Where?
When?
I'm a shareholder - why haven't I been informed?
This is one trip to SMS I will be making!

Portswood Pete, Portswood says...
2:36pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Invidia wrote:
I think you will find Portswood Pete it was RL who had the first swipe in this latest bit of gossip
But Invidia, you are forgetting, Leon is a Saints fan, Rupert isn't. Yes Roops had the first shot in this particular instance but Leon, for the good of the club, should've kept his big fat gob shut, but he couldn't resist could he? He's done nothing to help his, or our, cause, the man's an idiot.

Beer Monster, Hythe says...
3:57pm Wed 3 Dec 08

The board should be like the referee - in control and unnoticeable. Unfortunately neither seem to be doing either.

Invidia, southampton says...
3:58pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Portswood Pete wrote:
Invidia wrote: I think you will find Portswood Pete it was RL who had the first swipe in this latest bit of gossip
But Invidia, you are forgetting, Leon is a Saints fan, Rupert isn't. Yes Roops had the first shot in this particular instance but Leon, for the good of the club, should've kept his big fat gob shut, but he couldn't resist could he? He's done nothing to help his, or our, cause, the man's an idiot.
You could well be right P.P

allsaintsnocurves, Southampton says...
4:03pm Wed 3 Dec 08

This goes to show that Wilde in my view has been the worst one of the lot for blatantly lying to get control when no investment was in place. Crouch has only wanted what was best for the club probably the only one without any motives of personal gain. If Crouch had been in power when Harry was here and we were in the Premiership I don't think we would have gone down!

Traceyf, Southampton says...
4:31pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Lowe/Wilde and Crouch are using a lot of energy seemily attacking eachother. If Lowe and Wilde can bury the hatchet then I wish they could with Crouch too and bring him into the fold and then use their collective energies constructively for the good of the club.

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
5:08pm Wed 3 Dec 08

UTS now I know you are a joke - you call me wind up merchant, I have some way to go to catch you up

Come on Yorkie mate - you know exactly why the fans stormed in for our last match - the smell of blood or the anticipation. It was our biggest match of the season. It gave those who believed we would fail, the chance to show their disapproval in front of the world's press, and all the others were there to support and hope we did it.

This will once again be evident at the Man U game. Packed stadium made up with regular supporters, supporters who cannot afford to go each game, and the ALBies who will sit on the fence. They will revel in the glory if we put the big boys out, but will be there waiting like vultures for failure so they can put another notch on their guns.

At least I accept that all you ALBies may have a genuine grievance aginst Lowe (even if I do not share it) but you lot just seem to want to pounce on anything to bring down the club. A little fairness now and again would not go amiss, with appreciation now and again when something happens that is good - like the lads playing really well

Where is the Saviour?, Southampton says...
5:58pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Where is Andrew Strode-Gibbons when you need him most?

Come on Andrew, save us again.

Saint, says...
7:05pm Wed 3 Dec 08

Bottom line is the pro Lowe people like DOH, say he can do nothing wrong, and lets forget the past agian, and lets back his intention again and again. Because it is wrong to be negative, and it is cool to be positive. Today it is why are all the chairman bickering with each other, lets forget this to and talk football. What a joke!

Lowe has come back with a bitter heart after the humiliation of being ousted. Since his return he has talked for Wilde all the time. He has sold over and over again the company line of no money, which make it easy to hide crap, and thrown mud at others who kicked him out. He started this basically now. He get rid of a picture of the FA cup in the boardroom and replaces it with a train. He get rid of a decent young English manager in Pearson. I could go on.

Then DOH fights all, and whats facts and proof. So Crouch has had enough and final put Lowe and Wilde in their place, which he should of done sooner, with proof!

I have said many times Lowe has brought this club to this declined and sorry state over his ten year plus tenure. He has brought no finaces in ,though the market or out. Frankly he is not up to the job, and talks of all Saints fans including you DOH in the third person. Which tells you everything of his thought patterns. For all this it is very clear Lowe should go!

TottonScrutineer, Totton says...
7:26pm Wed 3 Dec 08

We all know what a shambles RL wilde and Crouch have made of things.Can we just drop the subject and get on supporting the TEAM which is bigger than any personalities.Give Jan the space to work his magic.The time for shouting iswhen it all goes wrong!!
And I don't think it will based on recent performances.Support the team not the no hopers on the board

the third hardest man in sholing, southampton says...
7:35pm Wed 3 Dec 08

This is like politics ,everyone casting themselves as the saviour and all the followers and politicians having pointless pops at each other.Dull,dull ,dull.
If Mr Rich comes along great,we`re all gonna have cake for tea!
Reality time....there aint no-one out there.
I blame Leon Best,the dozy sod went and missed a playoff pen that could have been the difference between the disney league and genuine investment or our reality of poverty stricken hasbeens.
Still like Derek im enjoying some of the football,without the filthy lucre to corrupt us.There`s something quite pure,saintly even about watching those young lads instead of a bunch of journeymen.

Saint in Melbourne, Melbourne says...
8:49pm Wed 3 Dec 08

It's all getting bery boring, can't there be an article on the team in the Daily Echo.

All the negative comments about the Saints are equally boring.

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
9:30am Thu 4 Dec 08


Saint - I don't know how you can read what I say and turn it round so much to make it suit your argument. I also cannot understand how you can guess/assume so much about Rupert Lowe.

I have never said I am pro Lowe and in fact I have raised many criticisms of the man


I have never said he can do no wrong

I have never said lets forget the past

I have never said lets back his intention again and again

I have never said it is cool to be positive

You have proof Lowe has come back with a bitter heart?

He has not talked over and over again about the money problem - he has reported a few times what the situation is

He got rid of Pearson because he could not afford to keep him

He did not get rid of the picture, he gave it back to LM to hang in a place where more could see it

The train picture was presented to him by another club - what was he supposed to do with it

I do not fight all - try reading all the posts to see how many people I agree with and also how many people agree with me.

Why should I not ask you to give me proof of things you say - and why is it you never seem able to do it.

I do not actually listen to much of what Lowe says as it does not really interst me too much, but if your whole argument rests on him speaking in the third person - and from that you think can determine his thought process - how very sad.

Not sure how many different ways I can put this before you understand.

I am a fan and I support my team. If Lowe did wrong some years ago (and I do not think he did half of what you accuse him of) I am willing to forget it for the time being. The team and it's progress is too important right now.

At the moment I have seen not one thing he has said or done to make me want to join any campaign to see him ousted. That does not make me a Lowe lover or even that I particularly like the man.

MY chief concern is going to watch the lads play and drumming up as much support for them as and where I can, so hopefully we will stay in this division this season. I am here for the football.

If I see you or any other person on this site say something I do not understand I will ask if you can explain it to me. If I read something that I think is wrong or an accusation that is made without any apparent proof - I will ask to see the evidence.

I am not trying to be cool or fight the world - all I want is honesty and fair comments, and to support my team

Saint, says...
11:40am Thu 4 Dec 08

Derek of Holbury wrote:
Saint - I don't know how you can read what I say and turn it round so much to make it suit your argument. I also cannot understand how you can guess/assume so much about Rupert Lowe. I have never said I am pro Lowe and in fact I have raised many criticisms of the man I have never said he can do no wrong I have never said lets forget the past I have never said lets back his intention again and again I have never said it is cool to be positive You have proof Lowe has come back with a bitter heart? He has not talked over and over again about the money problem - he has reported a few times what the situation is He got rid of Pearson because he could not afford to keep him He did not get rid of the picture, he gave it back to LM to hang in a place where more could see it The train picture was presented to him by another club - what was he supposed to do with it I do not fight all - try reading all the posts to see how many people I agree with and also how many people agree with me. Why should I not ask you to give me proof of things you say - and why is it you never seem able to do it. I do not actually listen to much of what Lowe says as it does not really interst me too much, but if your whole argument rests on him speaking in the third person - and from that you think can determine his thought process - how very sad. Not sure how many different ways I can put this before you understand. I am a fan and I support my team. If Lowe did wrong some years ago (and I do not think he did half of what you accuse him of) I am willing to forget it for the time being. The team and it's progress is too important right now. At the moment I have seen not one thing he has said or done to make me want to join any campaign to see him ousted. That does not make me a Lowe lover or even that I particularly like the man. MY chief concern is going to watch the lads play and drumming up as much support for them as and where I can, so hopefully we will stay in this division this season. I am here for the football. If I see you or any other person on this site say something I do not understand I will ask if you can explain it to me. If I read something that I think is wrong or an accusation that is made without any apparent proof - I will ask to see the evidence. I am not trying to be cool or fight the world - all I want is honesty and fair comments, and to support my team
Yes you have, and you should go back and read them yourself, and the many who have argue with you and found you to be annoying, childish and arrogant.

I had to stop reading your post half way through...why? Because I never seen anyone who has tried so hard to paint themself in a different light all the time! Stop trying to sell yourself.

As for the train and what should he do with it. DON'T TEMP ME....

I am going to regret this, but here goes, I want to ask you a simple question. You say support the team, and yet you fail to notice I am, though not as blindly as you, and not one dimentional. Here is the question, Qu. What is most important to Southampton F.C. (not Lowe)? A) The biggest single success in the clubs history of winning the F.A. cup agiants Man U, when we were in the second divsion. Remenber some clubs have never won the F.A. cup. B) A picture of a train from Doncastor for a fixture we had to play, and may never of played before. Because we have been religated in to this crap division under Lowe leadership.

A or B Derek is all that is needed. Remenber you are supporting the team in red and white stripes from St. Mary's not Doncastor, just like all the other posters on here you argue with.

UTS, says...
1:02pm Thu 4 Dec 08

SOUTHAMPTON will sell their top two players next month in a desperate bid to avoid administration — and a 10-point penalty.

Fears are mounting for the South Coast club, which is now £27.5million in debt and has barely any working capital to continue day-to-day operations.


Some Saints players and coaches are also extremely concerned by increased involvement in team matters by some of the club’s directors.


Striker Adam Lallana, 20, rated at £2m, and 22-year-old midfielder Andrew Surman — who could fetch £1.5m — are to be sold in January for an instant cash injection.


If the club is still unable to pay wages, and with the banks refusing to increase their already large overdraft, they would have to become the latest club to go into administration and suffer the resulting points penalty.


It will be a sorry fall from grace for the 2003 FA Cup finalists, who have failed to recover from relegation from the Premier League four years ago.


Despite selling a string of key players, including Theo Walcott to Arsenal, they have failed to balance the books.


Saints problems continue in the week that cash-strapped Watford stumbled from one crisis to another, with chairman Graham Simpson being forced to stand down.


alan.of.eastleigh, eastleigh says...
1:51pm Thu 4 Dec 08

I was going to send a message to Crouch saying 'tell it to Rupert' cos the fans are not interested in hearing who was or was not to blame (be it from Crouch or Lowe or Wilde!), But having scanned the responses above there seems an awful lot of sad muppets who seem more interested in what is happening in the boardroom than on the pitch. Have we forgotten how to support a football team through thick and thin? We have a great bunch of youngsters and more to come. We can only get better. COYR.

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
2:06pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Saint - you are like a demented dog with a bone. For Christ sake give it a rest.

I have explained my position too many times to you in the past and you always find something to bleat about.

If you do not like my posts or they make you really angry - don't read them.

Please do not try to tell me what to do when it comes to answering your question. It cannot simply be answered in a simple A or B

I was there for the cup final and it meant the world to me. The memories will stay with me forever and nobody will take them away from me. One picture of LM with the cup being removed from the board room means absolutely nothing. It is a picture - so what. There are thousands and thousands of pictures about the cup. I have a folder crammed with photos and all the newspaper clippings.

I will never see that picture in the boardroom and nor will you, so how is that taking away the memory of the cup for anyone. The fact is it was just being given back to LM to hang in a different part of the ground so more people could see it. To me it makes absolute bloody sense.

As for the train picture - it does not really matter what the picture is of, it is all about the gesture. We were given it by Doncastor FC as a special gift and I cannot see it matters that we have hung it in the board room. It would have been disrespectful to take it from them and do nothing with it. As for your suggestion of what you could do with it - how very predictable.

Listen mate, if all you have on Rupert Lowe is where he wants to hang a picture, or that you think I was a bit rude to an old man then you need to get a life. There are matters more important than this in life and I suggest you find some.

Saint, says...
3:07pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Derek of Holbury wrote:
Saint - you are like a demented dog with a bone. For Christ sake give it a rest. I have explained my position too many times to you in the past and you always find something to bleat about. If you do not like my posts or they make you really angry - don't read them. Please do not try to tell me what to do when it comes to answering your question. It cannot simply be answered in a simple A or B I was there for the cup final and it meant the world to me. The memories will stay with me forever and nobody will take them away from me. One picture of LM with the cup being removed from the board room means absolutely nothing. It is a picture - so what. There are thousands and thousands of pictures about the cup. I have a folder crammed with photos and all the newspaper clippings. I will never see that picture in the boardroom and nor will you, so how is that taking away the memory of the cup for anyone. The fact is it was just being given back to LM to hang in a different part of the ground so more people could see it. To me it makes absolute bloody sense. As for the train picture - it does not really matter what the picture is of, it is all about the gesture. We were given it by Doncastor FC as a special gift and I cannot see it matters that we have hung it in the board room. It would have been disrespectful to take it from them and do nothing with it. As for your suggestion of what you could do with it - how very predictable. Listen mate, if all you have on Rupert Lowe is where he wants to hang a picture, or that you think I was a bit rude to an old man then you need to get a life. There are matters more important than this in life and I suggest you find some.
Na...did not think you could or would!

I told you before I am not your mate. Dog with a bone....lets see...our you must be Derek. I will not let go? You are trying to snatch the dam thing off me all the time. Keep skating around the issues DOH. You had one thing to answer about the f-----g team you so righteously claim to support. One thing about Southampton FC and you could not manage that, all you could do is have a tantrum and shower your post with abuses.

Get a life? you arrogant DOH! Your life is one constant long winded slef impossing arguments on hear every single day all day...now that a life worth having!

Give a rest...good idea DOH!

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
5:20pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Alright Saint - lets play the game at your level. I explained why any sane person would not just answer the question you gave from only two answers provided by you. There are lots of answers you could give and wher is my freedom of choice when it comes to answering.

Right - if I say my answer would be A - you would say right then why did Lowe choose the picture above the history of our FA cup success.

If I had said B - you would have said I could not possibly be a fan of the club if I felt the picture was more impostant than the FA cup history.

I gave you my answer why I could not just answe from A or B - what about that do you not understand.

You just read my posts now and think only that I am being arrogant or rude. You don't actually read what I am saying.

We keep doing this bit and I suppose I should just grow up and move on, but a bit like you feel you have me and won't let go - neither will I.

Every post you make about me accuses me of being abusive. Right, one question for you, but I know you won't answer because you never do. Your post says I had a tantrum and showered myb post with abuse.

GIVE ME ONE BLOODY EXAMPLE or get off my back and find someone else to falsely accuse of things that just aren't true.

Saint, says...
6:27pm Thu 4 Dec 08

Derek of Holbury wrote:
Alright Saint - lets play the game at your level. I explained why any sane person would not just answer the question you gave from only two answers provided by you. There are lots of answers you could give and wher is my freedom of choice when it comes to answering. Right - if I say my answer would be A - you would say right then why did Lowe choose the picture above the history of our FA cup success. If I had said B - you would have said I could not possibly be a fan of the club if I felt the picture was more impostant than the FA cup history. I gave you my answer why I could not just answe from A or B - what about that do you not understand. You just read my posts now and think only that I am being arrogant or rude. You don't actually read what I am saying. We keep doing this bit and I suppose I should just grow up and move on, but a bit like you feel you have me and won't let go - neither will I. Every post you make about me accuses me of being abusive. Right, one question for you, but I know you won't answer because you never do. Your post says I had a tantrum and showered myb post with abuse. GIVE ME ONE BLOODY EXAMPLE or get off my back and find someone else to falsely accuse of things that just aren't true.
DOH firstly don't be in denial about not being arrogant. Look at your first agressive opening line. Lets play the game at your level. Very nicely put DOH.

The question did not take your freedom of choice away, and you assume too much in you once again attemp to answer the question as you said you would come down to my level. You have not still answered it, and this dear chap is just one reason why you annoy many posters on here. The thing is Lowe got rid of the picture as it is no secret he dislike LM and it is as simple as that. The thing is that this is done over Southampton F.C. achivement, which is a little small minded of Lowe. Anyway I diverse. I ask the question simply to find out if you are proud of this club FA win and in the manner it was done, and to try and see through the crap you dish out. To see through all of this if you feel we should be proud of this, and if it should not be a constant reminder of what we should strive to achive. Rather than keep saying "no money" all the time. Next year again and again. Or if you fill a train of Doncastor was viewed by you as a bigger success than winning the FA cup. Predictable that you avoided the question, though very interesting that both your answer look after yourself and Lowe. It was simple though not simple enough for you.

Question: How the hell would you know what I would say DOH? Debate is justifying and seeing the answers come back and going on from there.


Now to answer your simple minded question IF I MAY BRING MYSELF UP TO YOUR LEVEL? Q:Give you one bloody example? Ans: Saint - you are like a demented dog

Traceyf, Southampton says...
10:36pm Thu 4 Dec 08

saint,

The said picture is now probably hanging in LMs directors box - thats hardly getting rid of it but somehow you manage to make it sound like Lowe took it to the city dump.

Saint, says...
10:21am Fri 5 Dec 08

Traceyf wrote:
saint, The said picture is now probably hanging in LMs directors box - thats hardly getting rid of it but somehow you manage to make it sound like Lowe took it to the city dump.
No I have not, and no we do not know it is in the LM box. This was only suggested it could be, when it was delivered to LM home.

The point being made is the boardroom is the engine room for what happens to our great club. The point being made is that Lowe is small minded here and petty. Our one great success for our great football club, in and football areana has be childishly replaced by a none football picture of a train in Doncastor. It not difficult Tracey.

Why dose Lowe not stick the train in his office, and then he can sit back and admire is small minded success on a fixture he has brought upon this club. that's all it is. Let's stick a Sheffield Wed. flag up outside St. Mary's to replace the Southampton F.C. flag. I am sure they would be happy to supply us one. As stupid as this is, is no less stupid as what Lowe has done, or you implying that he never put it in the city dump, so it alright...please! I bet he thought of it though, I'll give you that.

Tracey if we won the championship,or even the prem in years to come. Would any club not put it in pride of place? If not what, let's just pack it all up, and save everyones misery, because what be the point!!

Derek of Holbury, Holbury says...
11:02am Fri 5 Dec 08

O.K. Saint YOU WIN

You have finally made me aware I am no match for you.

Apart from hardly understanding a word you say (and I do not mean this as a criticism of you) or what your point is, I have now decided you will are so determined to find arrogance in whatever I write there is just no point in responding any more to your posts.

The sad thing is I have sat back and noticed that your accusations and abuse to me have reduced me to writing back in a similar fashion - and I do not like myself for doing it.

I have repeatedly asked questions of you that you point blank refuse to answer, and instead fire back at me that I do not answer yours.

You accuse me of bullying, but you go on about the main question you asked that I refused to answer. In a democracy you are free to ask a question and the person being asked is free to answer. Bullying is where you ask a question and insist that there are only two answers to choose from and then insist that one of them is chosen. I answered your qusetion, but because I chose not to give one of the answers you listed - you saw this as a failure on my part to answer your question.

No point in continuing - it is a stalemate.

I will go on posting, but there is absolutely no point in me responding again to your posts. They are getting nasty and I do not wish that to continue.

Saint, says...
2:29pm Fri 5 Dec 08

Derek of Holbury wrote:
O.K. Saint YOU WIN You have finally made me aware I am no match for you. Apart from hardly understanding a word you say (and I do not mean this as a criticism of you) or what your point is, I have now decided you will are so determined to find arrogance in whatever I write there is just no point in responding any more to your posts. The sad thing is I have sat back and noticed that your accusations and abuse to me have reduced me to writing back in a similar fashion - and I do not like myself for doing it. I have repeatedly asked questions of you that you point blank refuse to answer, and instead fire back at me that I do not answer yours. You accuse me of bullying, but you go on about the main question you asked that I refused to answer. In a democracy you are free to ask a question and the person being asked is free to answer. Bullying is where you ask a question and insist that there are only two answers to choose from and then insist that one of them is chosen. I answered your qusetion, but because I chose not to give one of the answers you listed - you saw this as a failure on my part to answer your question. No point in continuing - it is a stalemate. I will go on posting, but there is absolutely no point in me responding again to your posts. They are getting nasty and I do not wish that to continue.
This is priceless! It is also hypocrictical and typical of you!

I have answered ALL your question, yet you refuse to see it, as you simply wish to argue. You never answer mine or any other poster question on here, and your very selective with your replys and skate around issues and jump all over the place with perfect attempts to simply argue.

DOH do not try to paint a hard done by story on here, as you are fooling no one. You deserve all that you get!You asked me to show you one example of abuse to me, and I did. With this you challegned me with the fact that you said I would not bother to answer the question, and I did. No point having sour grapes now, you deserve all you get, and in this case you literally asked for it, and you have the cheek to say this was my doing in the first place...priceless DOH. I and some other posters refuse to be bullied by you than your holier than thou attitude to supporting Saints.

DOH you are so arrogant, I never meet anyone like you. I love my club, and hurt as much as the next Saints fan about what is happening. Though at times you go so far, and to say if you upset someone it is not intentional...IS NOT A BLOODY EXCUSE!

Stop trying to dictator to others how to support their club, and get a bit of respect for others, instead of your pompous accusation of others!

derek fo holbury, holbury says...
7:48pm Fri 5 Dec 08

Saint - keep keeping the faith

Saint, says...
1:10am Sun 7 Dec 08

derek fo holbury wrote:
Saint - keep keeping the faith
DOH I love my club, and want more than you do for Saints than what Lowe is or will bring!

The thing you always miss,is that it is always there for life. I just what my life better when it comes to my love of Southampton F.C.

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Michael Wilde with Leon Crouch in happier times. Michael Wilde with Leon Crouch in happier times.

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