Saints stars in international action (From Daily Echo)

If Rickie had played we would have won 3-1

I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:
If Rickie had played we would have won 3-1

Yea, I reckon you're right and if Lallana hadn't been on the bench we would have definitely lost!

Hopefully Oxo will be gifting the ball to us on Saturday as often as he did to Ukraine last night.

I see from Marketing Week that he's also landed a lucrative sponsorship deal from Hansgrohe & Dornbracht, the designer toilet roll people. Unbelieveable - celebs can even cash in on a fat @rse nowadays.

Confucious wrote:
Hopefully Oxo will be gifting the ball to us on Saturday as often as he did to Ukraine last night. I see from Marketing Week that he's also landed a lucrative sponsorship deal from Hansgrohe & Dornbracht, the designer toilet roll people. Unbelieveable - celebs can even cash in on a fat @rse nowadays.

That's crap!

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

A guy like Rickie is ideal for a national team that can barely out perform a 1940 trabant with a recond motor held together with chewing gum and rubber bands. England play like they have to push the old car up hill and are scared to let it roll back down. when you need points and you're running out of time.. Rickie is yer man.. he's always going to score even if you hitch the tow rope to him he'll pull you through.

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

The report is, by all accounts, going to be massive.

Good.

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

I wonder how the Sun newspaper will report it, they have never been forgiven for their portrayal of the event in most parts of Liverpool.

Darn those international weeks. All our new boys playing around the globe when they could be in our training camp meeting the lads and practising the finer points of how to score the fourth against the Gooners at the weekend.

Congrats Adam, future England Captain

Can't Saturday just hurry up i'm getting bored of waiting and can't say last nights football was that great

Mush On The Beach wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

I wonder how the Sun newspaper will report it, they have never been forgiven for their portrayal of the event in most parts of Liverpool.

I've just gone a bit 'something-in-my-eye
' about it. For the first time, a panel has declared the tragedy was completely not of the Liverpool fans' making and that afterwards the Police went to great lengths to destroy evidence and briefed the media against Liverpool fans.

Dead bodies were blood-tested for alcohol, and if none was found (and it generally wasn't - alcohol wasn't deemed to be part of the problem) then they were checked for criminal records so they could be smeared in the media.

Then afterwards, 164 police statements were amended to protect those responsible in the South Yorkshire Police.

David Cameron has, rightly, apologised, but next time you're at the football it's worth looking around at the all-seater stadium and reflecting how safe you feel and pausing to remember that 96 people had to die for that and that their families were lied to for 23 years.

St Retford wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

The report is, by all accounts, going to be massive.

Good.

Having policed around 25 semi finals at Hillsborough, prior to this one, you'd have thought the police would have known what they were doing.

If so, why was no one stationed at the entrance of the tunnel to stop the inflow of fans, when those sections were already full?

Was this part of the ground historically difficult to fill quickly, or were there extenuating circumstances on the day, causing so many fans to arrive at the turnstiles at the same time?


If, as it appears, they and the Government have hidden evidence and even falsified evidence, then they should all get on bended knee and seek apologies and forgiveness from all those affected by the disaster.

Has the FA taken it's share of blame for this disaster??

From what I have read, the police asked for the kick off to be delayed, so that they could reassure the Liverpool fans that they WOULD get in before the kick off, but for some reason this was denied.

Have the FA given their reasons for this?

Christ knows. The FA let the game go ahead despite Hillsborough not actually holding a valid safety certificate.

One of the police statements which got altered before the Taylor report told how the police were in chaos and that only one of them had a walkie talkie that was working, so there was absolutely no organisation or communication.

Following the anniversary of 11th September yesterday this news today about Hillsborough resonates even more.

Hardly any mention was made in the press yesterday of the Twin Towers and that is quite sad. Time diminshes the impact.

Todays news is a little more local but stirs strong emotions mainly because we have dicovered what cvertain people did to conceal the truth.

Today we consider those close to the 96 people who died and there is rightly a lot more publicity and public outrage. I am unclear how we ever put any punishment in place for this.

The overwhelming feeling that "somethimg must be done" blurs our vision somewhat. It's too late.

We can rage and point our fingers at the police, but those who were culpable are truly long gone. How do we compensate for that? I really don't know. Punishing the police just spreads the bill around the tax payers. It's enough that they are forced to bear the burden of respnsibility. Blaming "the Govt" doesn't cut it either so long after the event. Cameron can issue an apology, that's his job and it is right for him to do so. But I still feel that all we are left with is the truth rather than some tangible feeling of justice being done.

Maybe we just take solace from the hope that such errors will not be repeated. But I am really not sure.

The disaster did however start the move away from old world football grounds and the way in which fans were herded like cattle in those days.

Maybe we have gone to much the other way with the new "corporate stadiums" and "no standing" but they are undoubtedly safer today.

I agree with St Retord, this rightly dominates our thoughts today. Another example of the finer, less publicised qualities found in football crowds.

Thing is, it happened to be Liverpool fans but it could have been any of us. It could have been us. And it happened, I think, because the authorities regarded football fans as scum who could be herded up and sh@t on and no one would care. What's more, the authorities were encouraged to think like that by the Thatcherite mindset of the era which saw people like football fans or trade unionists as not-entirely human.

People have been a bit "O just get over it" to the families these past few years, but the report vindicates their determination to seek the truth. I'm made up for them.

(I'll shut up about it now but it's seriously worth a read.)

I agree on all counts. I'll shut up now too. You have said what needed to be said.

I think the worst thing about it is if it can be proved true that if someone had asked the FA to put kick off back this could so easily have prevented this such a tragedy and like as has been said above could so easily have happened to us

Even Nigel Adkins could teach Roy Hodgson about the use of subs.Trailing 1-0 with minutes to go and he swaps left backs.Instead of taking Baines off he should have got rid of Milner and brought on our Adam.
Milner only gets his place bacause Glen Johnson is an inadequate defender.Why not pick a decent right back to begin with.
In hindsight Lallana should have started in Tom I'm not so clever at scoring place.No goals ever for Manchester Disunited and he and the injury prone Jack Wilshire are hailed as the future of English football.Adam Lallana has twice the potential and experience of both of those players but i bet Wroy won't pick him for the next squad.
Why weren't the likes of Adam and Rickie Lambert or even former Saints legend Peter Crouch called into the squad when Andy Carroll cried off.

Peter Crouch and Saints Legend theres 4 words I thought i'd never see put together

SO50 Saint wrote:
Peter Crouch and Saints Legend theres 4 words I thought i'd never see put together

He allowed to saythat in my books because he’s CB Fry.
Charles Burgess Fry or Cheese Burger Fries, I do hope people appreciate the difference. One a proud part of Southampton’s elite sporting history, the other the reason why most of us are only fit enough to play Sunday footy.

oxo should have come off for lallana as he was having an awful game. as was gerrard lampard cleverly welbeck milner.
same old same old.

SO50 Saint wrote:
Peter Crouch and Saints Legend theres 4 words I thought i'd never see put together

Yeah a veritable SAINTS LEGEND for ignoring then SAINTS -and probable future SAINTS-manager HARRY REDKNAPP and taking that penalty in the FA cup tie at ST MARYS against pompey and scoring.He deserves his halo for that alone.

Mush On The Beach wrote:

SO50 Saint wrote:
Peter Crouch and Saints Legend theres 4 words I thought i'd never see put together

He allowed to saythat in my books because he’s CB Fry.
Charles Burgess Fry or Cheese Burger Fries, I do hope people appreciate the difference. One a proud part of Southampton’s elite sporting history, the other the reason why most of us are only fit enough to play Sunday footy.

BIG LAWRIE MAC COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER.

Great point CB and one I forgot when writing my reply earlier which actually suprises me as I have always claimed that to be the best goal ever scored by a Saints player when I have been in attendance, being too young to have been at Fratton in 84 or Wembley 76

SO50 Saint wrote:
I think the worst thing about it is if it can be proved true that if someone had asked the FA to put kick off back this could so easily have prevented this such a tragedy and like as has been said above could so easily have happened to us

I find it hard to believe, even back then, that the police didn't have the power to TELL the FA to put the kick off back and not merely ASK.

Seedhouse the Unrepentant wrote:

SO50 Saint wrote: I think the worst thing about it is if it can be proved true that if someone had asked the FA to put kick off back this could so easily have prevented this such a tragedy and like as has been said above could so easily have happened to us

I find it hard to believe, even back then, that the police didn't have the power to TELL the FA to put the kick off back and not merely ASK.

Thankfully now the 'Police On The Ground' have the power to control situations. That said, a crowd will never be allowed to get in to a ground in such circumstances or numbers again.....

the problem with England is that we allow the media to pick the team/squad. anytime a manager tries to drop one of the media`s darlings they come in for all sorts of abuse and criticism. remember when lineker was subbed early in a game, or when becks was dropped by steve mcclaren? again abuse and ridicule. i for one minute am not saying those decisions were right or wrong! what i am saying is that the manager made the decision and was forced to change by the media. becks again hit the headlines for being left out of the olympic squad, the media saying this was wrong and he should have been picked for his work in helping to win the games for London! i am glad pearce dropped him and said it was for footballing reasons, he should have not picked giggs either!

players like lampard, defoe and terry are not going to win anything for England, they have failed time and time again! rooney is a liability!
i have said it before and have heard it from others that England should drop the old guard and pick a team of young players. the problem though with the current system is that the only way younger player can be picked is if they play for the so called `big teams` Ryan Bertrand, Sturridge (chelsea) ox (arse) welbeck, cleverley(manure) Sterling (pool) and Walker, Livermore (spurs). we all know this happens and we all know the reasons!
i cant be bothered to watch most England games now because of this.
we were told after the last world cup that it was time to change and the old guard would be dropped and has that happend?
think of another team who dropped the older players for yougsters, Spain! they had a couple of years of bad results because of that, but now look at them!
i dont mind some older players being picked but they should be picked on merrit! not because of their name and who they play for.

saintshorse101 wrote:
the problem with England is that we allow the media to pick the team/squad. anytime a manager tries to drop one of the media`s darlings they come in for all sorts of abuse and criticism. remember when lineker was subbed early in a game, or when becks was dropped by steve mcclaren? again abuse and ridicule. i for one minute am not saying those decisions were right or wrong! what i am saying is that the manager made the decision and was forced to change by the media. becks again hit the headlines for being left out of the olympic squad, the media saying this was wrong and he should have been picked for his work in helping to win the games for London! i am glad pearce dropped him and said it was for footballing reasons, he should have not picked giggs either! players like lampard, defoe and terry are not going to win anything for England, they have failed time and time again! rooney is a liability! i have said it before and have heard it from others that England should drop the old guard and pick a team of young players. the problem though with the current system is that the only way younger player can be picked is if they play for the so called `big teams` Ryan Bertrand, Sturridge (chelsea) ox (arse) welbeck, cleverley(manure) Sterling (pool) and Walker, Livermore (spurs). we all know this happens and we all know the reasons! i cant be bothered to watch most England games now because of this. we were told after the last world cup that it was time to change and the old guard would be dropped and has that happend? think of another team who dropped the older players for yougsters, Spain! they had a couple of years of bad results because of that, but now look at them! i dont mind some older players being picked but they should be picked on merrit! not because of their name and who they play for.

Agreed.
There needs to be a transition period where the new generation of players take over. Obviously it's not ideal to do this all at once, we need to bed them in gently with experienced pro's around them. Roy Hodgson or the next England manager is going to have to take the plunge sooner or later. It might be painful for a few games but surely it will be worth it in the end.

England is a broken record, year in year out they play rubbish football, with only a handful of rare good performances each decade. How they are rated 3rd by FIFA is astonishing, 33rd is more accurate and nothing is going to change until each the Prem delivers a plan to limit the number of foreign players.

I am glad Adam was not involved in that embarrassing shambles last night.

Save the performance for the Gunners!!! COYR

Confucious wrote:
Hopefully Oxo will be gifting the ball to us on Saturday as often as he did to Ukraine last night.

I see from Marketing Week that he's also landed a lucrative sponsorship deal from Hansgrohe & Dornbracht, the designer toilet roll people. Unbelieveable - celebs can even cash in on a fat @rse nowadays.

I asked my wife to rub this very brand into her T*ts to help make them grow...she asked if it would help...I said well it worked on your A*se.

St Retford wrote:

Mush On The Beach wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

I wonder how the Sun newspaper will report it, they have never been forgiven for their portrayal of the event in most parts of Liverpool.

I've just gone a bit 'something-in-my-eye

' about it. For the first time, a panel has declared the tragedy was completely not of the Liverpool fans' making and that afterwards the Police went to great lengths to destroy evidence and briefed the media against Liverpool fans.

Dead bodies were blood-tested for alcohol, and if none was found (and it generally wasn't - alcohol wasn't deemed to be part of the problem) then they were checked for criminal records so they could be smeared in the media.

Then afterwards, 164 police statements were amended to protect those responsible in the South Yorkshire Police.

David Cameron has, rightly, apologised, but next time you're at the football it's worth looking around at the all-seater stadium and reflecting how safe you feel and pausing to remember that 96 people had to die for that and that their families were lied to for 23 years.

Will the police be charged, no, but bet your bottom dollar that if you or I were culpable for this catastrophe there would be a knock at the door 23 years later or not!

saintshorse101 wrote:
the problem with England is that we allow the media to pick the team/squad. anytime a manager tries to drop one of the media`s darlings they come in for all sorts of abuse and criticism. remember when lineker was subbed early in a game, or when becks was dropped by steve mcclaren? again abuse and ridicule. i for one minute am not saying those decisions were right or wrong! what i am saying is that the manager made the decision and was forced to change by the media. becks again hit the headlines for being left out of the olympic squad, the media saying this was wrong and he should have been picked for his work in helping to win the games for London! i am glad pearce dropped him and said it was for footballing reasons, he should have not picked giggs either!

players like lampard, defoe and terry are not going to win anything for England, they have failed time and time again! rooney is a liability!
i have said it before and have heard it from others that England should drop the old guard and pick a team of young players. the problem though with the current system is that the only way younger player can be picked is if they play for the so called `big teams` Ryan Bertrand, Sturridge (chelsea) ox (arse) welbeck, cleverley(manure) Sterling (pool) and Walker, Livermore (spurs). we all know this happens and we all know the reasons!
i cant be bothered to watch most England games now because of this.
we were told after the last world cup that it was time to change and the old guard would be dropped and has that happend?
think of another team who dropped the older players for yougsters, Spain! they had a couple of years of bad results because of that, but now look at them!
i dont mind some older players being picked but they should be picked on merrit! not because of their name and who they play for.

I agree. I said after the last World Cup in South Africa that all the players in the squad with the possible exception of Gerrard (who always seems to put a shift in when wearing the England Shirt) should never wear the three lions again. The performances were without doubt the worst I had seen in 40 years of watching England. Younger players, players from other divisions (even)should have been bought in then based on ability in their respective positions and not solely on who they play for!
It amazes me that sometimes managers still dont realise that players sometimes look better because of who plays alongside them (for example Sir Rickie would probably score twice as many goals as he does now if Gareth Bale was supplying the crosses)
Ashley Young for England being a case in point. I dont think he's that good and only looks good at Man U because of who is around him. If he played for any other team, dont think he'd get a look in!!


STID

St Retford wrote:
Thing is, it happened to be Liverpool fans but it could have been any of us. It could have been us. And it happened, I think, because the authorities regarded football fans as scum who could be herded up and sh@t on and no one would care. What's more, the authorities were encouraged to think like that by the Thatcherite mindset of the era which saw people like football fans or trade unionists as not-entirely human.

People have been a bit "O just get over it" to the families these past few years, but the report vindicates their determination to seek the truth. I'm made up for them.

(I'll shut up about it now but it's seriously worth a read.)

In 1984 we played Wednesday in the cup during the miners strike, let me tell you I climbed up the downpipe to the seats above because we were being crushed badly back then in that very end...anyone remember.

In the season before Hillsboro we played Liverpool and just before kick off their fans "ran" the gates and tried to batter them down at the Archers. The police opened the gates to stop a small riot.
This was reported in the Echo as something that had happened at other grounds.
When the disaster occurred there were quite a few people claiming this is what happened that day too!
I have never read anything to contradict that except the indignation of Liverpool fans that they have never done this kind of thing.
The police get the blame and they try to lie their way out of it and distort the truth. Fact is that there were mistakes by all concerned on the day.
In the days afterwards there were claims that the fans were doing all sorts of stuff, quite a lot of the stories were complete fiction, but they were not completely blameless and the Sun got hammered for pointing this out.
Misty eyed remembrance needs to have some clarity, a lot of mistakes have since led to the safety we now enjoy in our grounds. I was a regular at many grounds around the country and saw a lot of near misses. The Dell was not immune to a crush every now and then when Manure and the like visited and a scrap got started.
Seating is good, but we could now introduce some segregated standing and it wouldn't cause the mayhem it once did.

Team captain Adam spends time training with the full England squad and comes back to Staplewood and tells JWP and other assorted young lads "this what you get if you train hard and give it your best shot every game, play for the Saints ! "
MLT was a shining example, now Adam is following in his boots .

dadofmy3sons wrote:
Team captain Adam spends time training with the full England squad and comes back to Staplewood and tells JWP and other assorted young lads "this what you get if you train hard and give it your best shot every game, play for the Saints ! "
MLT was a shining example, now Adam is following in his boots .

No doubt whatsoever about MLT skill level and loyalty to sticking with SFC.. brilliant legend but had he worked as hard as Adam, eaten a few less pies and concentrated 100% on the game instead of throw-in scams etc I wonder if he's have played a lot more for England.

Our young lads today are driven hard but a very professional outfit.. every faith several of our lads will get the call and flourish for the nation.. eventually Nigel will Lead England to The World Cup.. after he's taken Saints to the Champions League Crown.

warrens 76 wrote:

St Retford wrote: Thing is, it happened to be Liverpool fans but it could have been any of us. It could have been us. And it happened, I think, because the authorities regarded football fans as scum who could be herded up and sh@t on and no one would care. What's more, the authorities were encouraged to think like that by the Thatcherite mindset of the era which saw people like football fans or trade unionists as not-entirely human. People have been a bit "O just get over it" to the families these past few years, but the report vindicates their determination to seek the truth. I'm made up for them. (I'll shut up about it now but it's seriously worth a read.)

In 1984 we played Wednesday in the cup during the miners strike, let me tell you I climbed up the downpipe to the seats above because we were being crushed badly back then in that very end...anyone remember.

I was at the game in 84 and remember it well as it remains my one and only visit to Hillsboro'. The leppings lane terraces were packed with Saints, I seem to recall we had 50+ coaches take us to the game. With hindsight, you could see easilly how the disaster happened a few years later. It irks me still that the authorities didn't prevent it.

warrens 76 wrote:

St Retford wrote: Thing is, it happened to be Liverpool fans but it could have been any of us. It could have been us. And it happened, I think, because the authorities regarded football fans as scum who could be herded up and sh@t on and no one would care. What's more, the authorities were encouraged to think like that by the Thatcherite mindset of the era which saw people like football fans or trade unionists as not-entirely human. People have been a bit "O just get over it" to the families these past few years, but the report vindicates their determination to seek the truth. I'm made up for them. (I'll shut up about it now but it's seriously worth a read.)

In 1984 we played Wednesday in the cup during the miners strike, let me tell you I climbed up the downpipe to the seats above because we were being crushed badly back then in that very end...anyone remember.

I was at the game in 84 and remember it well as it remains my one and only visit to Hillsboro'. The leppings lane terraces were packed with Saints, I seem to recall we had 50+ coaches take us to the game. With hindsight, you could see easilly how the disaster happened a few years later. It irks me still that the authorities didn't prevent it.

I've heard various appologies from various Prime Ministers over the years, usually mumbled and carefully worded. That one was unequivocal. Well done Cameron.

Mush On The Beach wrote:

Strasbourg Saint wrote:

St Retford wrote:
I can't think that hard about Saints today. All my thoughts are with the families of the 96. I don't think they'll ever get justice but I do hope they at least get the truth. Good luck to them.

I second that emotion.

Some things in life put all our banter, rivalry, joys and sorrows into perspective.

I wonder how the Sun newspaper will report it, they have never been forgiven for their portrayal of the event in most parts of Liverpool.

I don't think that the Sun has been forgiven by any thinking football fan for their "THE TRUTH" front page in the aftemath of Hillsborough. Nor should it be.
.
If ever a single story, and the way it was presented, proved that Rupert Murdoch was unfit to own newspapers, and Kevin MacKenzie unfit to edit one, that was it.
.
Whatever the Leveson Enquiry concludes, it is safe to say that both of these "men" and their ilk will continue to prosper.