St. Mary's expansion? Seems unlikely.. (From Daily Echo)
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St. Mary's expansion? Seems unlikely..
in View from the Chapel
St. Mary's won't be expanding any time soon
Quite out of the blue last week, someone under the illusion that I know anything of merit, emailed me to ask if I could shed some light on something he’d heard.
Basically, one of his mates was adamant that Saints are about to expand St. Mary’s and he wanted to know if there was any truth in it.
Essentially, it’s the sort of conversation football fans have when there is no football to talk about during international breaks.
I know logic seldom comes into football, but the likelihood seems so remote it’s unlikely it’s something that is realistically on the radar of anyone at the club.
Yes, I know the chairman has mentioned in the past something about 50,000 seats but that doesn’t mean we’re suddenly going to see a forest of cranes rise above the Kingsland Stand.
Besides, the club would need extra planning permission too and nothing has been lodged with the city council - and that would not necessarily be straight forward.
We all know football is essentially male-appendage swinging when it comes to football fans and attendances and stadium sizes are a great way to rub our collective egos as supporters.
But at the the moment (and indeed, in the foreseeable future) there’s just no need to go beyond the 32,689 seats we have.
During a bit of hob-nobbing I did years ago, Andrew Cowen, who was on the board with Rupert Lowe, said the costs of adding extra seats on was prohibitive unless there was a tanglible and definite demand - namely 24,000 season ticket holders and a waiting list in place for a few years.
This was not long after the FA Cup final appearance in 2003, just two years after we’ve moved lock stock to St. Mary’s.
He said that the entire stadium project cost roughly £1,000 per seat to build (stadium was £21m, other stuff like road changes were another £11m) but to add extra seats on the cost was closer to £3,000 per seat.
So that means to increase the stadium to say 40,000 seats would cost not that far off what it did to build the entire thing in the first place - and in the eight years since, I imagine the cost has only gone up.
Even in the top flight, that’d be a huge undertaking but to do it in the Championship would be madness.
St. Mary’s is fine for us at the moment and I don’t see any real need to whack an extra tier on her at the moment, although it’s nice to know that we can do if we ever want to.
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Comments(35)
bogie
says...
7:23pm Thu 17 Nov 11
Also a quicker route away from the stadium on matchdays. Takes me an hour to get away from the stadium sometimes.
lowe esteem
says...
10:29pm Thu 17 Nov 11
There are clearly sums that will need revising if the club can only pull in 32,000 when there's 40,000 plus clamouring for tickets every home game.
Maths or Common sense were never Andrew Cowans strong subject.
eastleigh-ian
says...
11:48pm Thu 17 Nov 11
Sussex Saint
says...
11:22am Fri 18 Nov 11
The St Mary's Wikipedia suggests that all stands except the Itchen were designed to be increased, which again I always thought was a plan from day one.
St.Yorkie
says...
11:55am Fri 18 Nov 11
No smoke wthout fire - keep an eye on planning applications me thinks!
insane saint
says...
12:32pm Fri 18 Nov 11
Dan Kerins
says...
1:36pm Fri 18 Nov 11
Sussex Saint wrote:James Bond need to know time - I actually wrote that part of the Wikipedia article years ago, before I worked for the Echo. Guess it should have been attributed a bit better by now!
Vaguely recall that as part of the 2015 Rugby World Cup plans that St Mary's was to be expanded to 50000..?
The St Mary's Wikipedia suggests that all stands except the Itchen were designed to be increased, which again I always thought was a plan from day one.
The information about the ability to expand came direct from Andrew Cowen.
However, the 2015 Rugby World Cup is based on St. Mary's being 32,000 and expanding to 50,000 for the tournament was never part of the plan.
northam-is-the-core
says...
7:00pm Fri 18 Nov 11
Dan Kerins wrote:Actually this was confirmed by the world cup bid team that to do thihs to st marys was exactly the plan
Sussex Saint wrote:James Bond need to know time - I actually wrote that part of the Wikipedia article years ago, before I worked for the Echo. Guess it should have been attributed a bit better by now!
Vaguely recall that as part of the 2015 Rugby World Cup plans that St Mary's was to be expanded to 50000..?
The St Mary's Wikipedia suggests that all stands except the Itchen were designed to be increased, which again I always thought was a plan from day one.
The information about the ability to expand came direct from Andrew Cowen.
However, the 2015 Rugby World Cup is based on St. Mary's being 32,000 and expanding to 50,000 for the tournament was never part of the plan.
northam-is-the-core
says...
7:06pm Fri 18 Nov 11
Dan Kerins
says...
2:12pm Sat 19 Nov 11
The Rugby World Cup was decided years ago, back when Rupert Lowe was chairman the first time around.
Folkestone Saint
says...
2:33pm Sat 19 Nov 11
K in
says...
12:18am Sun 20 Nov 11
miltonarcher
says...
10:44am Tue 22 Nov 11
Gossie.
says...
1:03pm Tue 22 Nov 11
miltonarcher wrote:I disagree, the position of SMS is perfect, easy to walk to, and plenty of free parking 20 to 25 minutes walk away.
MAdness to build the stadium in the centre of Southampton. The original site was perfect, right next to the motorway. Dont add seats to SMS...Move
I would love to see SMS extended, and also for the waterside area around it to be bought up and hotels and restaurants built.
Dorssaints
says...
2:04pm Tue 22 Nov 11
We come from Dorset, park up, walk to the ground predicting the score, walk to the pub on way back, do a post match analysis and then drive home when it is quieter.
What I dislike is the moving by Sky of games on a Saturday to 12.45 and to Monday at 7.45.
magsSFC
says...
6:35am Wed 23 Nov 11
insane saint
says...
6:55pm Thu 24 Nov 11
magsSFC wrote:just what i thought as a said in one of the first posts.
I was one of the 'Chosen Few' who was lucky enough to be invited to have dinner with the Chairman last week and I can confirm that he said he wants to expand the stadium - everything is ready to go - just waiting for the Council. He wants it to happen and I am sure it is in his five year plan.
Redhat
says...
9:44pm Thu 24 Nov 11
lowe esteem
says...
1:58pm Fri 25 Nov 11
miltonarcher wrote:Keep up! That stadium would not have been able to accommodate the numbers that this one can at the moment, not to mention the infrastructure and luvverly pubs!
MAdness to build the stadium in the centre of Southampton. The original site was perfect, right next to the motorway. Dont add seats to SMS...Move
You are clearly living in the past Milton/Archers?
thehoggsback
says...
10:52pm Fri 25 Nov 11
insane saint
says...
9:10pm Sun 27 Nov 11
thehoggsback wrote:i know there was land out that way near westend that saints already ownor did own prior to aministration. but i do not know of any more.
I might be talking out of my a**e but i thought markus bought land near the rose bowl before he died 55k stadium to be built there when the prem days are back and they will be back,trying to get out of st mary,s when full is a no no,expansion i dont think so but hey just me talking,3 points sat please coyr.
echotalksb*****ks
says...
9:38am Tue 6 Dec 11
echotalksb*****ks
says...
9:50am Tue 6 Dec 11
bogie wrote:well doh if you dont like traffic and big crowds which unfotunatly is a fact of life if you go to football may i suggest you go to fratton park, i park right by the stadium never takes more than 20 mins to get out
How about freeing up some more area around St Marys for parking first?
Also a quicker route away from the stadium on matchdays. Takes me an hour to get away from the stadium sometimes.
echotalksb*****ks
says...
10:31am Tue 6 Dec 11
AdrianSmith
says...
12:03pm Tue 6 Dec 11
echotalksb*****ks wrote:Here's my comment:
Only someone who sits in the chapel would write an article like this saying we don't need it if that's so why don't we just stay in the championship and have no ambition? for me i don't think that was on the agenda for nicola cortese. As for writing about any costs that had been estimated by that joke of a board and rupert lowe is laughable 80% of that cost probably was going into his companies like everything else did, as per usual someone from the echo doesn't have a clue do yourself a favour like when you sit in the chapel on a sat and keep quiet SSSSHHHH
I'd venture the reporter and the former board would know far more than you on the subject. Your grasp of the English language suggests that in actual fact, you do not know very much.
Besides, if the club can afford to spend huge sums on expanding the stadium, why is there no work going on at the training ground?
The fantastic plans for it have ground to a halt and although demolition started months ago, nothing has been done since.
I heard that the club doesn't actually have much money at all, despite the big promises and that a lot of what is being paid for is done courtesy of loans and staggered deals.
I don't know if that is true but it would certainly explain a lot.
echotalksb*****ks
says...
1:46pm Tue 6 Dec 11
AdrianSmith wrote:i actually beg to differ,are you talking about that former board that took away our prem status and led us into administration & league 1?, i think even i could appoint a team of people that could manage a club better than those excuses for business men. They were such a roaring success eh. My English is the only thing you can point out, well done you. Not all of us sucked on mummys breast till we were eighteen and had private education. Also, your right about our training facilities, we are in a **** state with that aren't we, youth policies are crap, we still in league 1 things are so bad at the mo. Your obviously a ringer for lowe and his merry men of liars he called a board, next you'll tell me we would be in a better position if lowe was still in charge. Do yourself a favour and shut up defending the past board and the echo reporter the fact is everything this current board has said it will do it's done ahead of schedule may i point out and the only thing you can you can pick me up on is my grammar and the training facilities are behind schedule i'd say that its you that has a lack of knowledge. Go on point out my bad English again we both know its all you got
echotalksb*****ks wrote:Here's my comment:
Only someone who sits in the chapel would write an article like this saying we don't need it if that's so why don't we just stay in the championship and have no ambition? for me i don't think that was on the agenda for nicola cortese. As for writing about any costs that had been estimated by that joke of a board and rupert lowe is laughable 80% of that cost probably was going into his companies like everything else did, as per usual someone from the echo doesn't have a clue do yourself a favour like when you sit in the chapel on a sat and keep quiet SSSSHHHH
I'd venture the reporter and the former board would know far more than you on the subject. Your grasp of the English language suggests that in actual fact, you do not know very much.
Besides, if the club can afford to spend huge sums on expanding the stadium, why is there no work going on at the training ground?
The fantastic plans for it have ground to a halt and although demolition started months ago, nothing has been done since.
I heard that the club doesn't actually have much money at all, despite the big promises and that a lot of what is being paid for is done courtesy of loans and staggered deals.
I don't know if that is true but it would certainly explain a lot.
Dan Kerins
says...
7:06pm Tue 6 Dec 11
Play the ball, not the man.
echotalksb*****ks
says...
9:32am Wed 7 Dec 11
Dan Kerins
says...
11:38am Wed 7 Dec 11
All this article is about is explaining why - in my opinion - Saints would be silly to expand the stadium any time soon.
As for Saints 'being a small club' what I actually said was that Saints are never going to be as big as Manchester Utd, and that it would be nice to think SFC would stick up for small clubs like those in League One or example, should it find itself in a position to do so (ie, back in the Premier League).
I have briefly met Rupert Lowe in the past, and I have to say I didn't warm to him in the slightest, so to accuse me of being a 'mole' for him is quite frankly, ridiculous and is a conspiracy theory you seem to be inventing.
Other readers, such as Adrian or anyone else, are entitled to their opinions as much as you are. If you fail to respect that then you are not welcome to engage with the community that does wish to discuss issues and points raised in articles.
You can criticise or disagree what I write by all means, but make sure you criticise what I actually say rather that what you think I've said.
I think that's fair enough, don't you?
Finally, someone has complained about your user name including an expletive. I suggest you create a new account before I'm forced to suspend your current username due to the swearing in the handle.
AdrianSmith
says...
12:07pm Wed 7 Dec 11
echotalksb*****ks wrote:Here's my retort:
well write something creditable then what's your problem writing articles about we shouldn't look any further than being a run of the mill club and shouldn't look to extending the stadium. And i don't remember picking a fight with anyone, as for trying to give credit to the former board is a joke. I would rather have a view from the northam where the passion is and the twelveth man, not from someone who sits in the chapel probably asking people to keep the noise down. It's no wonder cortese banned you lot you talk utter nonsense. It would be nice to have someone give the current set up some credit for making us a professional set up and also be positive. Your only saying I'm picking fights because I'm right and i picked out your ringer who defends the last board and you, its like lowes moles on the forums all over again its laughable. Adrian's arguements where my grammer and the work at the training ground i mean come on talk about clutching at straws and thats because you can't fault the club at the mo so why are you trying? how very weak the articles are trying to pick fault in the club, try reporting on the fantastic support we have and how ambitious the current set up are
I bet you also think the moon landings didn't happen....
The Salv
says...
1:02pm Thu 8 Dec 11
.
There was talk back in 2005 that if we could get 24k season ticket holders that we would add a tier to Northam and chapel, 4k on each end and raise the capacity to 40k.
.
With the population of the city rising of which some will eventually be southampton fans (hopefully) it wouldnt be long before we needed to expand.
mack chinnon
says...
12:19pm Sat 10 Dec 11
miltonarcher wrote:When relocation was first raised the toys-r-us site was mentioned.
MAdness to build the stadium in the centre of Southampton. The original site was perfect, right next to the motorway. Dont add seats to SMS...Move
That would of been a great site.
Norwegian Saint
says...
1:56pm Sat 10 Dec 11
ctsaint
says...
4:01pm Sun 11 Dec 11
They kept us in the 1 st division and then the Prem whilst overseeing the building of the new stadium .
We have a great academy , youth set up and ifastructure all inherited from them......
They spent money where it counts I.e invested in infrastructure, whilst keeping us in the top flight, no mean feat on gates of 15 k at The Dell....
They never leveraged the clubs future, the balancing act failed when we failed on the pitch and lost significant TV revenue.
The football world in the UK was run by ego driven local chairmen, many of them now operate in the lower leagues, few did as good a job as our board. They simply didn't have the cash to throw at Saints , Mike Ashley at Newcastle is worth hundreds of millions and even he is now small fry.
I have respect for the old board for giving us a foundation and not saddling us with unrealistic debts like our neighbours......that
s what made the club relatively easy to invest in and that's then potential seen by the new owners.
Consider that they purchased a club for around 20 m , including working cap.
Great stadium, great academy and great fan base, with no residual debt caused by a CVA.
By running the place as a business , signing the right players, doing business the right way , we will achieve our 5 year goals.
They have cash, how they structure the cash they put into SFC is down to tax I suspect, of course they loan money to the business and I suspect interest accrues to a trust with low or no tax liability.
They are in the top ten wealthiest owners of any UK club, but want to do things the Arsenal way.
The my have a brand of heavy engineering equipment but Leibher also sells White goods in Northern Europe.
A return to the Prem and possibly Europe would make for a great amount of publicity and Leibherr could even be shirt sponsors.......
Cortese is a proper CEO, this is a proper investment not a whim that Markus decided upon that is now aimlessly being followed out of respect by his family.
Rupert and friends were'nt all bad, they could have been much worse.....Leeds, Man City, Pompey.....how many clubs managed 28 years on our resources and built a foundation that allowed them to move forward?
click2find
COYR Ranger says...
6:01pm Thu 17 Nov 11