Woolston does need this development sooner rather than later, but if Crest Nicholson wish to be taken seriously about a water taxi & road junction improvement being enough to stop gridlock at peak times with the knock on effect to adjoining areas they need to give some detail to their schemes such as
The capacity of the water taxi that Crest Nicholson have in mind.
Where in Southampton it's destination would be.
The cost per trip people would be expected to pay.
Would it operate in all weather conditions?
Could they also supply figures on how junction improvements would improve the traffic flow based on current levels & then after the development has been constructed.
In fact I would like to see details of the model on which they have based their findings on.
I do hope these questions are anwsered in the near future rather than wait another 3 years where nothing happens.

what do these people who are protesting want. do they want the VT site to remain as it is because it really is an eyesore. developments are needed to push cities into the future. it doesnt matter how hard these people protest, i hope the developments go through and when they do the people protesting will realise what true beauty is

People visit Manhattan, they dont visit Woolston.
What exactly are you trying to save?

It is called progress.

They banged a drum.....

That made me laugh for an hour. Whoooppppeeeee, they banged a drum.

Glad to see The Echo reporters have finally gained a sense of humour.

ROFL

"Councillor Richard Williams added he only knew of one resident in favour of the plans as they stood."

He should take off his blinkers and get out more.

Richard Williams says he knows of only one resident who is in favour of these plans.Surely the council invite objections (not support) to a planning application,so if 1000 have objected then the rest are in favour (or dont give a toss either way).

Having once lived in Woolston I think that it should be so lucky to get somthing like this.

Mr Middleton says"These plans are a real threat to spoil Woolston with too many dwellings in too small a space."

Spoil Woolston?A collection of terraced houses all crammed together in Victorian Streets! Lack of investment by Soton City Council has turned Woolston into a dump,full of litter,and empty shops.We need this development in order to regenerate the area.

Realist wrote:
Mr Middleton says"These plans are a real threat to spoil Woolston with too many dwellings in too small a space." Spoil Woolston?A collection of terraced houses all crammed together in Victorian Streets! Lack of investment by Soton City Council has turned Woolston into a dump,full of litter,and empty shops.We need this development in order to regenerate the area.

I do ask myself what exactly they are trying to "save". About time they took off their rose-tinted spectacles and actually visited Woolston.
They should realise Keith Paul, Dukes and the Floating Bridge have all disappeared since there last visit.

The number is getting smaller all the time, 80-100? Still looks like less than 50 people to me. I wonder how many of them really live in Woolston and how many are just the usual rent-a-mob protestors and old biddies with nothing else to do?

This development is central to Southampton City Council attracting money into the city. It's also one of the biggest SEEDA projects. There is a lot of stake and although it's right that locals concerns are put forward, the bigger picture is the development will happen.

I wonder how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed and Palmer Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build their new yard in Portsmouth?

Born in Woolston wrote:

Realist wrote: Mr Middleton says"These plans are a real threat to spoil Woolston with too many dwellings in too small a space." Spoil Woolston?A collection of terraced houses all crammed together in Victorian Streets! Lack of investment by Soton City Council has turned Woolston into a dump,full of litter,and empty shops.We need this development in order to regenerate the area.

I do ask myself what exactly they are trying to "save". About time they took off their rose-tinted spectacles and actually visited Woolston. They should realise Keith Paul, Dukes and the Floating Bridge have all disappeared since there last visit.

And if it the application gets rejected on Friday the rest of the shops will disappear on Monday.

I wonder how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed and Palmer Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build their new yard in Portsmouth?

They would probably see it as a victory and organise a street party and barbecue, they are such short-sighted individuals.

Brian wrote:

I wonder how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed and Palmer Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build their new yard in Portsmouth?

They would probably see it as a victory and organise a street party and barbecue, they are such short-sighted individuals.

I would think they would be delighted.Going by the number of responses by the WCA today,they have obviously all gone to Wembley so perhaps they are Pompey supporters in disguise.

Interesting video. I have run a business in Woolston for many years. I vaguely recognised 2 faces amongst the marchers. So either the numbers were swelled with "rent-a-mob" protesters or they were local residents who care so little for their local community they never use it.
The above post is right. From what I understand speaking to many other local businessmen, if the plans aren't passed asap the commercial area of Woolston will be deserted within 6 months ( I know personally of 2 more planning to shut imminently irrespective of the decision, they simply can not hang on any more).

These self-centered minority bunch of protesters will then have the "community" they deserve - a ghost town on an ever faster downward spiral. No doubt when it happens they'll simply up sticks and move elsewhere - not everyone has that option.

The WCA would probably be delighted if all the shops shut in Woolston. Would allow them to be redeveloped into 4 Bedroom Mock Tudor houses for them and people they deem worthy.

Obelisk wrote:
The WCA would probably be delighted if all the shops shut in Woolston. Would allow them to be redeveloped into 4 Bedroom Mock Tudor houses for them and people they deem worthy.

Nail on head Obelisk.
That's what this is REALLY about.
They try to say they are think of others, but they only think of themselves.

I think all those against the proposals are just fed up with trying to make people who won't listen understand that whate we want is NEW DEVELOPMENT, PALMER JOHNSON and any other business beit restaurants, shops, the supermarket or Hotel that will create jobs and help to revitalise jobs. What we do not want is people living there to live like sardines all crammed in to too small a space. If you still don't or don't wish to understand what is planned, go and visit the plans in Gateway or look at them on line and see for yourself as I am quite frankly fed up with trying to make you understand what our motives are.

Woolston resident wrote:
I think all those against the proposals are just fed up with trying to make people who won't listen understand that whate we want is NEW DEVELOPMENT, PALMER JOHNSON and any other business beit restaurants, shops, the supermarket or Hotel that will create jobs and help to revitalise jobs. What we do not want is people living there to live like sardines all crammed in to too small a space. If you still don't or don't wish to understand what is planned, go and visit the plans in Gateway or look at them on line and see for yourself as I am quite frankly fed up with trying to make you understand what our motives are.

I still fail to understand what your motives are.
You claim that you do not want people living like sardines, surely that is THEIR CHOICE.
I have been following the planning since the start and still cannot fathom why you have started your protest this late.
If the plans are rejected the development will probably NEVER happen.
Thanks for putting the brakes on this exciting project.

I think it's about time woolston was brought up to date. Most of the houses and shops are victorian. The majority look run down which is'nt surprising as most were built over 100 years ago. They should flatten every building from the waterside up to and in line with the new coop right along to the stink factory. This would provide real transport links from the portsmouth rd. There are too many people living in the past.

Wooslon Business Owner wrote:
Interesting video. I have run a business in Woolston for many years. I vaguely recognised 2 faces amongst the marchers. So either the numbers were swelled with "rent-a-mob" protesters or they were local residents who care so little for their local community they never use it. The above post is right. From what I understand speaking to many other local businessmen, if the plans aren't passed asap the commercial area of Woolston will be deserted within 6 months ( I know personally of 2 more planning to shut imminently irrespective of the decision, they simply can not hang on any more). These self-centered minority bunch of protesters will then have the "community" they deserve - a ghost town on an ever faster downward spiral. No doubt when it happens they'll simply up sticks and move elsewhere - not everyone has that option.

No wonder u didn't see anyone u knew if u have a business in wooslon i've no idea where this is, do u live in the area cause if u did u would realise the impact this is gonna have on the roads, not only when it is finally finished but what about all the thousands of lorries needed, i agree that woolston needs a developement but do all u guys who welcome it realise that the tower blocks will be as big as canberra towers at weston now what a blot on the landscape that is, if a new council estate is needed maybe fratton park would be a better bet.

Like New York, first you need to get rid of all the rats. But I see they are leaving themselves to go protest, just make sure they don't come back then you will have a city to be proud of.

People who oppose development generally try to wiggle out of the NIBMY catergory by saying "we dont oppose development just the amount" . These people need to realise land like everything has a value and people go to work to make a living. The developer will have a % they will need to make it worth while and i am sure these numbers of units were not just plucked from the sky . I am sure if this land was sold to the WCA for redevelopment they would propose the same amount of units as this will be the number needed to make it work finacially. If the WCA has such good grasping on finance and housing needs why not make the developer an offer on the land?

Glad the beating of the drum has attracted so much comment shame the general tone is so negative. We should count ourselves lucky that people are free to protest if they wish or make comment if they wish, there are places in the world where this is not possible.

The VT site does need to be developed but infrastructure and traffic concerns from the number of drewlings and visitors both for retail and lesiure do need to be considered.

There is much to be positive about in all areas of Southampton and the South as a whole. So harness and celberate its rich history, diveristy and community to provide a legacy for future generations.

Well done to all who protested and have commented here.

It really is time that the council's planners listened to what we want our city to be like. People have been protesting for some time about the high density of new flats, but their protests fall on deaf ears. The children's play area at Mayflower Park needed a make over, but look what we've ended up with.

Come on Council, remember who pays your wages and make sure that the Woolston development is what we want, not simply what you think we want.

It really is time that the council's planners listened to what we want our city to be like. People have been protesting for some time about the high density of new flats, but their protests fall on deaf ears. The children's play area at Mayflower Park needed a make over, but look what we've ended up with.

Come on Council, remember who pays your wages and make sure that the Woolston development is what we want, not simply what you think we want.

Bob82 wrote:
It really is time that the council\'s planners listened to what we want our city to be like. People have been protesting for some time about the high density of new flats, but their protests fall on deaf ears. The children\'s play area at Mayflower Park needed a make over, but look what we\'ve ended up with. Come on Council, remember who pays your wages and make sure that the Woolston development is what we want, not simply what you think we want.

Good point Bob, look what has happened to Ocean Village knocked down & left for ages then the developers got it totally wrong only a third of the site built cause they couldn't sell the flats so now we are left with a big un-finished piece of land (nice wooden fence though)so what ever finally happens lets hope in this time of a housing prob & credit crunch lets hope the same thing doesn't happen.
I do agree with some of the comments that land is money & if we owned it we would all want to put as much on there as possible & if the location was in a different place ie by the direct route to the bridge & if the roads weren't designed for a horse & cart then i might agree with the proposal, the other thing that hasn't been talked about is where are all these kids gonna go to school with woolston school looking like it's gonna close, so i do agree that the site is very important for woolston to move on i just don't think it's been thought out very well.
While i'm on my soap box what else is happening with the planning dept in soton council we have been promised an ice rink since the last one was knocked down to build flats there is an idea site new door to the new swimming pool but according to the developers (who did a poll at 3am outside the burger van in west quay rd) there is no call for it so guess what they are gonna build more shops, flats & cafe's that no one will use, i think i see a common idea here do the planners get paid more for flats than anything else, so if u wanna bring people & their money into woolston how about using part of the site for the new ice rink now that would put woolston on the map for a good thing & not another 25 story tower block mess (& just think how much extra money u'd make on the bridge), if you can't envisage how high these tower blocks will be just look at the two blocks in ocean village quite high aren't they ? well those are only 8 stories high, makes u think.

I must be one of the 2 faces that Woolston Business Owner vaguely recognised. I joined the march, and I thought it was a pretty good turnout at short notice at 4 on a Friday afternoon. Congratulations to those who organised it.
As to the negative comments, you're perfectly entitled to express your opinion, as we are.
Why did we leave it so late to object to the proposals? Well, it's a bit difficult to object to something when you don't know what it is, and until the plans were submitted, we couldn't register an objection.
Do the people who accuse us of being NIMBYs think we should just accept ANY development? Why not make it 2,000 dwellings then? Or 4,000?
We don't want to preserve Woolston in aspic, and we want a successful development as much as anyone. If the development goes ahead as is, though, will the people who accuse us of nimbyism be cheering when the traffic over the Itchen bridge backs up to Bursledon, or when they can't find anywhere to park. I suggest the congestion generated by the at least 2,000 extra cars will be more than a bit of junction widening and a water taxi will have a gret deal of effect on.
Would Woolston traders feel any benefit from the development if it becomes a place that nobody wants to visit anyway?
I believe that Woolston very badly needs new development. But not something as densely packed as this. There are plenty of examples of good development in this country and Europe that could be of immense benefit to Woolston and Southampton, but to go ahead with this development without serious changes would be probably the biggest missed opportunity in Woolston's history.
Anyone is entitled to think that we may be wrong - fair enough - but please don't impugn our motives.
If enough people feel so strongly that this development in its present form is the most wonderful thing that could happen to Woolston, then they have every right to organise their own campaign in support. In fact, why don't we have a local referendum on the development, then at least we'd know whether it has local support or not?
I agree with Bob82: "It really is time that the council's planners listened to what we want our city to be like." The planning brief for this development was Council-led, and I can't blame the developers for doing their best to meet the brief. I shouldn't imagine that the developers could care less if there are 3 tower blocks or not - this was the Council's grandiose vision for 'landmark' buildings.
The developers I guess also don't care if a new Library is built on the site or not. In fact I presume that they would prefer to build a few more flats there instead, so why can't we use the 106 money from the development to build a library on the Inkerman Road site, compulsorily purchased by SCC 32 years or so ago for a library and community centre and a new school, and which has mostly lain derelict ever since?
But I digress. I hope that if the development does go ahead as it is, that I will be proved entirely wrong and that it will have nothing but positive effects on Woolston. We'll see who's right in 12 years time.

According to National Statistics, at the 2001 Census about 30% of Southampton households had no car or van. So if 30% of households at the new Woolston development were to manage without a car, it's hard to see why they would need more than 1400 parking spaces. (If 70% of households had one vehicle that makes 1157 vehicles, leaving about 250 further spaces for the households with more than one vehicle). Or put it another way, it doesn't look like parking provision is a strong reason for objections.
As for the highest densities in the world, purleeze... Ever heard of Hong Kong?!

mr s wrote:
what do these people who are protesting want. do they want the VT site
to remain as it is because it really is an eyesore. developments are
needed to push cities into the future. it doesnt matter how hard these
people protest, i hope the developments go through and when they do the
people protesting will realise what true beauty is

I have seen many beautiful things in my life, but a glass development next to a victorian village is hardly even on the agenda. No the issue here is quite simple. SEEDA and Crest need to rethink the number of dwellings they are going to put on this site. As it stands it is totally unrealistic and there is no way that the commujnity will compe with congestion and overcrowding.
Come to the development branch meeting next tuesday 27th at the woolston community centre church road. Join us for eight pounds or email us your support to savewoolston at googlemail.com

Duh wrote:
They banged a drum.....

That made me laugh for an hour. Whoooppppeeeee, they banged a drum.

Glad to see The Echo reporters have finally gained a sense of humour.

ROFL

Well I thought it was an extremely well organised protest. WELL DONE!!!! to all those involved. Woolston is only now starting to gain momentum. This is a proposterous proposition 1653 dwellings! Do these developers honestly think they can get away with this? Look at the 4 towerblocks on Weston Shore there are onlyy 686 flats in total...what they want to do is nearly triple that and put it on a smaller face. They dont care about anybody who lives in Woolston. Crests head honch tried to tell me that he can relate to us because his parents live in the New Forest.....WHooooooo
ooheeeeeeeeee... he really does understand what it is going to be like trying to get around after he dissapears with his bonus cheque and next community to distroy! No he really is in touch with the area....get real Mr Pope

Brian wrote:

I wonder how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed
and Palmer Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build
their new yard in Portsmouth?

They would probably see it as a
victory and organise a street party and barbecue, they are such
short-sighted individuals.

Thats fine... but have you warned portsmouth that you plan to overcrowd their city with unreasonable housing density numbers. Or are you not building houses there?

honestly this should not be a nasty debate this should just bbe a case of people with the power listening to what the people have to say and acting on it. I thought SEEDA was a part of the government? Surely they should be operating in the best interests of the community and not their own back pockets? Or am I wrong? Please do educate us all?

Phil wrote:

Brian wrote:

I wonder how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed
and Palmer Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build
their new yard in Portsmouth?

They would probably see it as a
victory and organise a street party and barbecue, they are such
short-sighted individuals.

I would think they would be
delighted.Going by the number of responses by the WCA today,they have
obviously all gone to Wembley so perhaps they are Pompey supporters in
disguise.

Nobody is opposing the Palmer Johnston idea...it is only the housing. Phase one is family hjomes and shops which everyone agrees with. This debate has time to conclude on the density of housing. Build the 100 whatever houses... BUT DEFINATE NO to 1653 dwellings in towerblocks...SORRY.
.. you are not wrecking this community.

hello and i am aimee
i think tht it is a good idea to bild on this site it will make more people happy and will get more actraction the protesters are silly i strongly think that they should bild on this site and shut-up and let the real people get on with there work ! >:( protesters make me mad
loveyou woolston you like some more stuff betta(Y)

aimee wrote:
hello and i am aimee i think tht it is a good idea to bild on this site it will make more people happy and will get more actraction the protesters are silly i strongly think that they should bild on this site and shut-up and let the real people get on with there work ! >:( protesters make me mad loveyou woolston you like some more stuff betta(Y)

Can you just picture it...a load of illiterates like our ol Aimeee here and Sarah Mathews` family all standing in queues waiting to get their riverside apartment! lets face it the adds are probably up in the eastern block....MOVE TO WOOLSTON...free riverside apartment...but crest and SEEDA you fail to realise perhaps not even Imigrants might want to live in your crammed shacks

Obelisk wrote:
The number is getting smaller all the time, 80-100? Still looks like
less than 50 people to me. I wonder how many of them really live in
Woolston and how many are just the usual rent-a-mob protestors and old
biddies with nothing else to do?
This development is central to Southampton City Council attracting
money into the city. It's also one of the biggest SEEDA projects. There
is a lot of stake and although it's right that locals concerns are put
forward, the bigger picture is the development will happen. I wonder
how the WCA people would feel if the plans got delayed and Palmer
Johnson got fed up of waiting and instead decided to build their new
yard in Portsmouth?

Who exactly is going to buy an apartment on the 25th floor of a towerblock right next to a flightpath?
Why don`t developers try sell all the other crammed flats they built in Soton last year? I just cannot get SEEDA and Crest trying to build this amount of crammed living spaces? Has the world gone mad? Why don`t they just build the boat building yard , shops bars and restuarants with family housing. Woolston does not need tower blocks and crammed apartments on such a small piece of land. If they really are democratic companies with peoples interests at heart they would have realised this years ago. But alas, greedy developers and development groups are trying to forsake all our futures.