Ford fallout: hundreds more jobs could go

Daily Echo: Workers leaving Ford at Swaythling Workers leaving Ford at Swaythling

AT least 200 more jobs could go as Ford’s closure sends shockwaves through the local economy, the Daily Echo can reveal.

The axe is set to fall on firms supplying logistics and parts to the Swaythling plant as well as the 500 staff directly employed at the historic plant.

And last night Southampton City Council leader Councillor Richard Williams warned that the fall-out on the wider service industry could continue to spiral and bring the total losses to more than 1,000.

In what he dubbed as the “the worst excesses of globalisation”, Cllr Williams also claimed that the US car giant bosses in Detroit kept their plans secret from their British counterparts until they dropped the bombshell on Wednesday.

This saw stunned staff at contract firms yesterday meeting their equally shocked bosses amid fears for their future. But unions warned that contract staff could melt away before the plant shuts in July.

Unite regional officer Fred Hanna said that more than 120 staff at Penske Logistics who work at the plant are angry that they have not been promised the same generous “continuity payments” enjoyed by their Ford colleagues.

One worker told the Daily Echo: “We have no incentive to stay.”

Penske spokesman Randolph Ryerson said: “We understand this is a difficult time.

Management will be communicating and consulting with them over the coming days and weeks as we work through the details.”

Cleaning support workers are also among those facing redundancy.

One firm, Hamptons, supplies more than 30 staff to clean the factory. Operations manager Terry Vincent said: “We will continue to run until the summer and support our employees during the difficult time.”

About 45 jobs are also under threat at Magna Seating, located next door to the plant, which supplies upholstery for the Transit van. The company has previously felt the strain of job losses at Ford, when it was forced to trim part of its workforce when the plant shed 500 workers four years ago.

A Magna spokesman said it was too early to speculate on the fate of the staff.

Cllr Williams said even Ford UK bosses had been caught off guard.

He told the Daily Echo: “It was literally out of the blue – straight out of Detroit without advance notification.

“Nobody knew about it until Wednesday. It is a catastrophic way of dealing with things.

It is so unfair and the worst excesses of globalisation.”

Ford declined to comment.

Comments (55)

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9:23am Sat 27 Oct 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

That is not a surprise, it was inevitable.
That is not a surprise, it was inevitable. OSPREYSAINT

9:36am Sat 27 Oct 12

chunky_lover says...

i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)
i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-) chunky_lover

10:16am Sat 27 Oct 12

Linesman says...

chunky_lover wrote:
i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)
Big houses for people with big incomes?

I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off.
[quote][p][bold]chunky_lover[/bold] wrote: i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)[/p][/quote]Big houses for people with big incomes? I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off. Linesman

10:33am Sat 27 Oct 12

sasmike says...

this is where the Dell should be !
this is where the Dell should be ! sasmike

10:39am Sat 27 Oct 12

redsnapper says...

Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for? redsnapper

11:30am Sat 27 Oct 12

chunky_lover says...

Linesman wrote:
chunky_lover wrote:
i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)
Big houses for people with big incomes?

I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off.
I have a big income, and would like another property there, so yes. Jet noise doesn't bother me at all :-)
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chunky_lover[/bold] wrote: i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)[/p][/quote]Big houses for people with big incomes? I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off.[/p][/quote]I have a big income, and would like another property there, so yes. Jet noise doesn't bother me at all :-) chunky_lover

11:45am Sat 27 Oct 12

southy says...

redsnapper
Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high.
Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.
redsnapper Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high. Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day. southy

11:51am Sat 27 Oct 12

George4th says...

redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton.
Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities.
>
The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?!
[quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton. Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities. > The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?! George4th

12:15pm Sat 27 Oct 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
redsnapper
Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high.
Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.
Is that Maggies fault as well? ;)
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: redsnapper Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high. Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.[/p][/quote]Is that Maggies fault as well? ;) hulla baloo

12:16pm Sat 27 Oct 12

localnews says...

George4th wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton.
Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities.
>
The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?!
I know you've said it before......time and time and time again...blah blah blah !!! cue the usual Labourites response or another Southy rant.
Does'nt matter who's in there all as bad as one and other
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton. Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities. > The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?![/p][/quote]I know you've said it before......time and time and time again...blah blah blah !!! cue the usual Labourites response or another Southy rant. Does'nt matter who's in there all as bad as one and other localnews

12:21pm Sat 27 Oct 12

ohec says...

About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance. ohec

12:23pm Sat 27 Oct 12

S Pance says...

The council should be on the phone to chinese car companies pointing out that this factory will be available.

What have they done so far? Nothing.
The council should be on the phone to chinese car companies pointing out that this factory will be available. What have they done so far? Nothing. S Pance

12:28pm Sat 27 Oct 12

southy says...

George4th wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton.
Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities.
>
The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?!
It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts.
The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them.
So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton. Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities. > The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?![/p][/quote]It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts. The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them. So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win. southy

12:34pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Linesman says...

chunky_lover wrote:
Linesman wrote:
chunky_lover wrote:
i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)
Big houses for people with big incomes?

I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off.
I have a big income, and would like another property there, so yes. Jet noise doesn't bother me at all :-)
That may be true, but there are very few Rich Pratts about.
[quote][p][bold]chunky_lover[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chunky_lover[/bold] wrote: i hope they build some nice big houses on the site :-)[/p][/quote]Big houses for people with big incomes? I imagine that they would be flocking to buy houses that close to the airport so that they could see and Hear the planes taking off.[/p][/quote]I have a big income, and would like another property there, so yes. Jet noise doesn't bother me at all :-)[/p][/quote]That may be true, but there are very few Rich Pratts about. Linesman

12:37pm Sat 27 Oct 12

ohec says...

Some years ago i worked for a large company that also employed a lot of agency workers and when they decided to relocate up north it left the full time workers with a dilemma, do they get out quick and onto the job market in front of others or do they stay until the end, as the company wanted to keep the permanent workers right up to the end they came up with a good retention package so very few left but the agency workers left as soon as they found alternative employment. With the job situation as it is it is a difficult decision to make if you are offered alternative employment but it is also difficult to see agency workers that you used to work with working while you are still looking.
Some years ago i worked for a large company that also employed a lot of agency workers and when they decided to relocate up north it left the full time workers with a dilemma, do they get out quick and onto the job market in front of others or do they stay until the end, as the company wanted to keep the permanent workers right up to the end they came up with a good retention package so very few left but the agency workers left as soon as they found alternative employment. With the job situation as it is it is a difficult decision to make if you are offered alternative employment but it is also difficult to see agency workers that you used to work with working while you are still looking. ohec

12:41pm Sat 27 Oct 12

George4th says...

ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
[quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere. George4th

12:54pm Sat 27 Oct 12

southy says...

George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line southy

1:14pm Sat 27 Oct 12

southy says...

George4th said
"I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state"

If you believe in a real true Free Market then you must support the Nationalise Industarys to be opperational also with out that and the true co-op system, you do not have a an Open Free Market you have a one system market place, and there is a reason why its like this now, is because it can not compete with a Nationalise Industary or a true Co-op.
The welfare is slowly being broken up sold off to private hands, for the same reason they can compete with it.
George4th said "I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state" If you believe in a real true Free Market then you must support the Nationalise Industarys to be opperational also with out that and the true co-op system, you do not have a an Open Free Market you have a one system market place, and there is a reason why its like this now, is because it can not compete with a Nationalise Industary or a true Co-op. The welfare is slowly being broken up sold off to private hands, for the same reason they can compete with it. southy

1:38pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Fieldbean says...

Southy I wish you would take time to read what you put on this site. Some of your sentences probably do not even make sense to you. How can you expect the average reader to understand your higher thinking with your disjointed text?
Southy I wish you would take time to read what you put on this site. Some of your sentences probably do not even make sense to you. How can you expect the average reader to understand your higher thinking with your disjointed text? Fieldbean

1:39pm Sat 27 Oct 12

candylane says...

I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords.
Many have done so for over twenty something years.
Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords.
I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords. Many have done so for over twenty something years. Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords. candylane

2:55pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Linesman says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them. Linesman

3:02pm Sat 27 Oct 12

skeptik says...

W
W skeptik

3:16pm Sat 27 Oct 12

phil maccavity says...

southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton.
Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities.
>
The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?!
It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts.
The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them.
So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win.
So says one of those who was able to buy his ex council house due to Maggies policy to sell off council stock!!!
I guess there is a good chance you live there alone in a family sized house!!
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton. Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities. > The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?![/p][/quote]It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts. The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them. So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win.[/p][/quote]So says one of those who was able to buy his ex council house due to Maggies policy to sell off council stock!!! I guess there is a good chance you live there alone in a family sized house!! phil maccavity

3:24pm Sat 27 Oct 12

phil maccavity says...

Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
I was a union member for many years and appreciate their ideals.
However they became too powerful and began pandering too much to political ideals rather than the requirements of their members, the majority of whom are slightly to the right or left of centre, not extremeists.
Problem is when the Thatcher Govt (rightly) pulled in the power of the Unions, it gave a free reign to a growing number of company executives who have been 'feeding at the trough' ever since.
This behaviour sends as many negatives out the the 'average person' as does the Union, 'strike at every opportunity' stance.
We all need to pull together but is this a realistic aim?
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]I was a union member for many years and appreciate their ideals. However they became too powerful and began pandering too much to political ideals rather than the requirements of their members, the majority of whom are slightly to the right or left of centre, not extremeists. Problem is when the Thatcher Govt (rightly) pulled in the power of the Unions, it gave a free reign to a growing number of company executives who have been 'feeding at the trough' ever since. This behaviour sends as many negatives out the the 'average person' as does the Union, 'strike at every opportunity' stance. We all need to pull together but is this a realistic aim? phil maccavity

4:03pm Sat 27 Oct 12

George4th says...

Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting! George4th

4:10pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Lone Ranger. says...

I get rather sick reading from the usual Tory poster who has nothing positive to say about the City of Southampton unless its bathed in blue.
.
Fortunately that doesnt happen too often.
.
We hear about how industry no longer invests here, large emplyers dont come here ...... No businesses will invest here.
.
What complete and utter Bo***cks.
.
I dont think too many industries/manufactu
rers invest as much as they used to in this country. but this has been like it since the 70's and not just the last few years.
.
Southampton of course doews not have the industry it once had .... the world has changed ...... Some blue dinosaur's have not.
.
You only have to look around the City to see the likes of ...... .. Skandia, Carnival, John Lewis, BAT, Soton Uni and Colleges, B&Q, NHS + many others ........ All of whom invest in buildings and most importantly people.
.
Some Tory poster may well consider this the next time they decide on their little schoolboy rant
I get rather sick reading from the usual Tory poster who has nothing positive to say about the City of Southampton unless its bathed in blue. . Fortunately that doesnt happen too often. . We hear about how industry no longer invests here, large emplyers dont come here ...... No businesses will invest here. . What complete and utter Bo***cks. . I dont think too many industries/manufactu rers invest as much as they used to in this country. but this has been like it since the 70's and not just the last few years. . Southampton of course doews not have the industry it once had .... the world has changed ...... Some blue dinosaur's have not. . You only have to look around the City to see the likes of ...... .. Skandia, Carnival, John Lewis, BAT, Soton Uni and Colleges, B&Q, NHS + many others ........ All of whom invest in buildings and most importantly people. . Some Tory poster may well consider this the next time they decide on their little schoolboy rant Lone Ranger.

4:49pm Sat 27 Oct 12

skin2000 says...

southy wrote:
redsnapper
Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high.
Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.
Going on strike isn't going to make things any better.So it is a pointless exercise.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: redsnapper Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high. Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.[/p][/quote]Going on strike isn't going to make things any better.So it is a pointless exercise. skin2000

6:06pm Sat 27 Oct 12

andysaints007 says...

redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
Wow !! What an idiot you are
[quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]Wow !! What an idiot you are andysaints007

6:09pm Sat 27 Oct 12

andysaints007 says...

S Pance wrote:
The council should be on the phone to chinese car companies pointing out that this factory will be available.

What have they done so far? Nothing.
How do you know that then? Please tell us where you got that information from !
[quote][p][bold]S Pance[/bold] wrote: The council should be on the phone to chinese car companies pointing out that this factory will be available. What have they done so far? Nothing.[/p][/quote]How do you know that then? Please tell us where you got that information from ! andysaints007

6:12pm Sat 27 Oct 12

andysaints007 says...

candylane wrote:
I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords.
Many have done so for over twenty something years.
Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords.
Diddums - just go look for another job like i did when I got made redundant with nothing but the minimum package!
[quote][p][bold]candylane[/bold] wrote: I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords. Many have done so for over twenty something years. Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords.[/p][/quote]Diddums - just go look for another job like i did when I got made redundant with nothing but the minimum package! andysaints007

6:25pm Sat 27 Oct 12

cantthinkofone says...

andysaints007 wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
Wow !! What an idiot you are
How so? He sums it up fairly reasonably to me -although the comparison with Barcelona may be a trifle ambitious given the climate and the lack of anything on a par with Gaudi or Camp Nou.
[quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]Wow !! What an idiot you are[/p][/quote]How so? He sums it up fairly reasonably to me -although the comparison with Barcelona may be a trifle ambitious given the climate and the lack of anything on a par with Gaudi or Camp Nou. cantthinkofone

7:22pm Sat 27 Oct 12

saint61 says...

FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t saint61

8:02pm Sat 27 Oct 12

arthur dalyrimple says...

hyperinflation very soon there 100 k wont last five minutes.
hyperinflation very soon there 100 k wont last five minutes. arthur dalyrimple

8:30pm Sat 27 Oct 12

saint61 says...

arthur dalyrimple wrote:
hyperinflation very soon there 100 k wont last five minutes.
And my jack sh@t will last even shorter. Your missing the point contractors who are a more integral part to the business than the 'don't give a ' Ford workers get nothing.
[quote][p][bold]arthur dalyrimple[/bold] wrote: hyperinflation very soon there 100 k wont last five minutes.[/p][/quote]And my jack sh@t will last even shorter. Your missing the point contractors who are a more integral part to the business than the 'don't give a ' Ford workers get nothing. saint61

10:26pm Sat 27 Oct 12

pod says...

saint61 wrote:
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
thats because you don't work for and are not employed by Fords
[quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t[/p][/quote]thats because you don't work for and are not employed by Fords pod

10:28pm Sat 27 Oct 12

pod says...

candylane wrote:
I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords.
Many have done so for over twenty something years.
Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords.
because you are not employed by Fords,
why would Fords give you redundancy money?
[quote][p][bold]candylane[/bold] wrote: I note there is no mention in this article of all the catering staff who work at Fords. Many have done so for over twenty something years. Their redundancy payments will be nothing like those offered by Fords.[/p][/quote]because you are not employed by Fords, why would Fords give you redundancy money? pod

10:42pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid. Linesman

10:45pm Sat 27 Oct 12

Linesman says...

saint61 wrote:
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey.

You still have a company to work for.
[quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t[/p][/quote]You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey. You still have a company to work for. Linesman

12:03am Sun 28 Oct 12

saint61 says...

Linesman wrote:
saint61 wrote:
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey.

You still have a company to work for.
My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t[/p][/quote]You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey. You still have a company to work for.[/p][/quote]My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting. saint61

1:35am Sun 28 Oct 12

George4th says...

Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population! George4th

8:12am Sun 28 Oct 12

southampton999 says...

They can now extend the runway across the motorway and get bigger aircraft into Southampton. Forget the third runway at Heathrow or Boris island. Super fast train to Heathrow and London. Problem solved!!! And cheaper than the other solutions!
They can now extend the runway across the motorway and get bigger aircraft into Southampton. Forget the third runway at Heathrow or Boris island. Super fast train to Heathrow and London. Problem solved!!! And cheaper than the other solutions! southampton999

8:22am Sun 28 Oct 12

OSPREYSAINT says...

George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise. OSPREYSAINT

8:49am Sun 28 Oct 12

pod says...

saint61 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
saint61 wrote:
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey.

You still have a company to work for.
My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting.
a k your own employer
[quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t[/p][/quote]You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey. You still have a company to work for.[/p][/quote]My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting.[/p][/quote]a k your own employer pod

9:11am Sun 28 Oct 12

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
But when the solids hit the fan, and their jobs are in danger, they suddenly find that they want the strength of the Union behind them.

They want to save a few bob by not paying Union subscriptions, but then want the Union to save them many pounds.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]But when the solids hit the fan, and their jobs are in danger, they suddenly find that they want the strength of the Union behind them. They want to save a few bob by not paying Union subscriptions, but then want the Union to save them many pounds. Linesman

9:13am Sun 28 Oct 12

Linesman says...

pod wrote:
saint61 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
saint61 wrote:
FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t
You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey.

You still have a company to work for.
My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting.
a k your own employer
Is it a non-Union firm that you work for?
[quote][p][bold]pod[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]saint61[/bold] wrote: FORD workers 100k each the rest of us jack sh@t[/p][/quote]You were not employed by Ford, you are employed by the company that worked for Ford, so your employer is staying in the UK and not going to Turkey. You still have a company to work for.[/p][/quote]My company is out of the UK and back into Europe, Turkey included. So as I say where's my pay off that's equivalent to the 100k each Ford employee will be getting.[/p][/quote]a k your own employer[/p][/quote]Is it a non-Union firm that you work for? Linesman

9:46am Sun 28 Oct 12

ohec says...

Unless you are directly employed by Ford's then any claim for redundancy or anything else is with your employer not Ford's so why complain about the package that Ford workers will get, good luck to them if the situation was reversed would the Ford workers complain. Ford have no responsibility to anybody that works at the plant other than those directly employed so its no good moaning ( i worked in the canteen for X amount of years yes its tough but thats life.
Unless you are directly employed by Ford's then any claim for redundancy or anything else is with your employer not Ford's so why complain about the package that Ford workers will get, good luck to them if the situation was reversed would the Ford workers complain. Ford have no responsibility to anybody that works at the plant other than those directly employed so its no good moaning ( i worked in the canteen for X amount of years yes its tough but thats life. ohec

12:33pm Sun 28 Oct 12

southy says...

phil maccavity wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
redsnapper wrote:
Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious.

But what do they do about the challenges?

In Southampton the answer is sweet FA.

With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better.

The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city.

What is there to stop for?
I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton.
Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities.
>
The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?!
It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts.
The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them.
So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win.
So says one of those who was able to buy his ex council house due to Maggies policy to sell off council stock!!!
I guess there is a good chance you live there alone in a family sized house!!
Don't talk rubbish phil maccavity you all ways been able to buy the council house stock, this house was on a morage before Thatcher was ever Prime Minster, and she had nothing to do with this house being bought, and your second bit about living in this house alone is wrong too.
[quote][p][bold]phil maccavity[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]redsnapper[/bold] wrote: Politicians make me sick, they spout utter ********ing garbage or just blurt out the bleeding obvious. But what do they do about the challenges? In Southampton the answer is sweet FA. With its geographical position and hinterland rich with talent Southampton should be a major European city on par with the likes of Barcelona attracting business, tourism and visitors but hopelessly inadequate vision by the City politicians have done very little to change the city for the better. The cruise liners come and go but their passengers get on and off the boats as quickly as possible and hardly ever stop in the city. What is there to stop for?[/p][/quote]I know I have said this many times before but the 25 years of Labour (a little LibDem) councils did absolutely nothing for the City of Southampton. No investment even during the boom years! That had followed years of Union agitation and strikes in Southampton. Result? Business won't invest in Southampton and the educated young go elsewhere for opportunities. > The Torys took over the council after the Labour government had left us with the worst debts in history! They managed a bad situation and yet had the foresight to inject some enthusiasm for new projects in Southampton. For the first time in years we saw a Positive council! And then what happened? The population of Southampton once again shot itself in the foot and re-elected Labour! How daft was that?![/p][/quote]It was a 18 years Tory Government that put us debts. The main problem is people greed thats been bred into to many people for the last 32 years, an that comes down to the Economic Political Policy of Thatcherism, Right wing Policy do not work in a modern world, we see the cracks that started in the 1700's just get bigger, deeper and wider, most Political Partys are right wing policy, theres only a very few that will offer some thing different and the TUSC is the major one of them. So voting in Tory would be shotting it self in the foot, you vote for any right wing party and you can not win.[/p][/quote]So says one of those who was able to buy his ex council house due to Maggies policy to sell off council stock!!! I guess there is a good chance you live there alone in a family sized house!![/p][/quote]Don't talk rubbish phil maccavity you all ways been able to buy the council house stock, this house was on a morage before Thatcher was ever Prime Minster, and she had nothing to do with this house being bought, and your second bit about living in this house alone is wrong too. southy

12:49pm Sun 28 Oct 12

southy says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise.
Very true Osprey, George4th as no concept of the best workmanship and top quality of goods comes with one man one job he also do not know the meaning of this "one man one job" so for George4th befefit one man one job means each man to is trade and become masters of that trade, some trades like mine rigging you do not work alone its a team work and depending on the job will matter if you work in a gang of 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24, 46 or even more, most accidents in the rigging trade happens because it is underman or multi-trade where the bosses try to save money and cut corners.
Multi-trade means that there will be poor quality workmanship, and poor quality goods, I do wonder some time is this the reason why our imports are far grater than our exports, because of this multi-trade no one wants British goods any more.

The Docks will be hit by the closure of the Transit plant, so expect job loses there too.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise.[/p][/quote]Very true Osprey, George4th as no concept of the best workmanship and top quality of goods comes with one man one job he also do not know the meaning of this "one man one job" so for George4th befefit one man one job means each man to is trade and become masters of that trade, some trades like mine rigging you do not work alone its a team work and depending on the job will matter if you work in a gang of 2, 4, 6, 8, 12, 24, 46 or even more, most accidents in the rigging trade happens because it is underman or multi-trade where the bosses try to save money and cut corners. Multi-trade means that there will be poor quality workmanship, and poor quality goods, I do wonder some time is this the reason why our imports are far grater than our exports, because of this multi-trade no one wants British goods any more. The Docks will be hit by the closure of the Transit plant, so expect job loses there too. southy

12:51pm Sun 28 Oct 12

southy says...

Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
But when the solids hit the fan, and their jobs are in danger, they suddenly find that they want the strength of the Union behind them.

They want to save a few bob by not paying Union subscriptions, but then want the Union to save them many pounds.
Maybe the Unions should look after there members first and get them the better deal, then maybe none-union members that have been getting the benefit of union action will learn how important it is to be in a union.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]But when the solids hit the fan, and their jobs are in danger, they suddenly find that they want the strength of the Union behind them. They want to save a few bob by not paying Union subscriptions, but then want the Union to save them many pounds.[/p][/quote]Maybe the Unions should look after there members first and get them the better deal, then maybe none-union members that have been getting the benefit of union action will learn how important it is to be in a union. southy

12:57pm Sun 28 Oct 12

southy says...

skin2000 wrote:
southy wrote:
redsnapper
Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high.
Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.
Going on strike isn't going to make things any better.So it is a pointless exercise.
Thats why those who do go on strike get better deals and even forcing the bosses to change there minds.
The Belgium Plant are all ready taking action on the closure of there plant let compair what happens there to what happens here, who will get the better deal.
[quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: redsnapper Barcelona is in a worse mess than Southampton, they are having to pay for the old derelict Olympics Stadiums that no-body wants to use, they can't even afford to have them pulled down, unemployment is higher, they have a big number homeless and poverity is at all time high. Spain as a whole is in a worse mess than its ever been before, They got a General strike coming up on Nov 14th, a number Europian Countrys are having a General Strike on the 14th, and there are calls going out for the Uk to join them on the same day.[/p][/quote]Going on strike isn't going to make things any better.So it is a pointless exercise.[/p][/quote]Thats why those who do go on strike get better deals and even forcing the bosses to change there minds. The Belgium Plant are all ready taking action on the closure of there plant let compair what happens there to what happens here, who will get the better deal. southy

2:40pm Sun 28 Oct 12

George4th says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise.
Osprey, you said:- "If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work"

As I said above, "Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the HUGE INCREASE IN THE WORKING POPULATION!"

We now have more people employed and yet Union membership continues to fall!


You said:- "The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce"

Oh! you mean like The Steel Industry, The Shipbuilding Industry, The Old Dinosaur Heavy Industries, The Mining Industry, The 100s of thousands of Dock Workers, The British Car Industry etc etc etc.
Yes, it would be good to keep those kind of Union relationships going..............
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work, may be. The old "Spanish" practices have long been abolished, so that argument is now a lame duck. The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce, the worst Companies are the ones that are continuously at odds with their Unions and their workers. What do you call an average worker? There seems to be no room in your Tory, Capitalistic, egotistic demeanour for any kind of compromise.[/p][/quote]Osprey, you said:- "If Union Membership has halved it is more to do with less people in work" As I said above, "Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the HUGE INCREASE IN THE WORKING POPULATION!" We now have more people employed and yet Union membership continues to fall! You said:- "The Companies that perform best are the ones that work with Unions to get the best from their workforce" Oh! you mean like The Steel Industry, The Shipbuilding Industry, The Old Dinosaur Heavy Industries, The Mining Industry, The 100s of thousands of Dock Workers, The British Car Industry etc etc etc. Yes, it would be good to keep those kind of Union relationships going.............. George4th

5:36pm Sun 28 Oct 12

ohec says...

There is a place for unions in todays workplace but as a negotiating tool not to hold companies to ransom, if the unions had the power today that they once had half the nation would be out on strike but as been seen in the not to distant past there isn't much appetite for strikes, as most people are more savvy and know that the strikers themselves lose a lot and gain very little while the union bosses continue to live the good life at the members expense. Anybody with an ounce of common sense knew that it was only a matter of time before Southampton shut and as and when it suits Fords the rest will disappear as plants come to the end of their useful life. As for the sour grape comments from those employed indirectly at Ford's thats tough but you all knew who you worked for so to complain about whatever redundancy package the Ford employed staff are getting is stupid and futile so grow up and get on with your lives.
There is a place for unions in todays workplace but as a negotiating tool not to hold companies to ransom, if the unions had the power today that they once had half the nation would be out on strike but as been seen in the not to distant past there isn't much appetite for strikes, as most people are more savvy and know that the strikers themselves lose a lot and gain very little while the union bosses continue to live the good life at the members expense. Anybody with an ounce of common sense knew that it was only a matter of time before Southampton shut and as and when it suits Fords the rest will disappear as plants come to the end of their useful life. As for the sour grape comments from those employed indirectly at Ford's thats tough but you all knew who you worked for so to complain about whatever redundancy package the Ford employed staff are getting is stupid and futile so grow up and get on with your lives. ohec

7:23pm Sun 28 Oct 12

Linesman says...

George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them?

In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached.

These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions.

The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers.
[quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them? In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached. These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions. The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers. Linesman

7:33pm Sun 28 Oct 12

IronLady2010 says...

Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them?

In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached.

These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions.

The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers.
Surely, If and when people retire and aren't replaced, Management wouldn't wish to see a less effective workplace as that isn't good business practice. They are just doing away with what wasn't needed as Technology has taken over?

Every year the world advances into more Technology which is reducing jobs for humans. I'm guessing the Ford plant used robots for certain tasks which were once done by humans.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them? In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached. These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions. The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers.[/p][/quote]Surely, If and when people retire and aren't replaced, Management wouldn't wish to see a less effective workplace as that isn't good business practice. They are just doing away with what wasn't needed as Technology has taken over? Every year the world advances into more Technology which is reducing jobs for humans. I'm guessing the Ford plant used robots for certain tasks which were once done by humans. IronLady2010

10:46pm Sun 28 Oct 12

Linesman says...

IronLady2010 wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
George4th wrote:
Linesman wrote:
southy wrote:
George4th wrote:
ohec wrote:
About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.
OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it!
The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future!
Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere?

The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory!

My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it!
In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions!

Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.
It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line
You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time.

Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between.

No holidays with pay.

No redundancy pay when put out of work.

No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was.

No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick.

All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions.

None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.
The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting!
So you think all the battles have been won?

If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.
I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity!
>
I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population!
But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them?

In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached.

These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions.

The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers.
Surely, If and when people retire and aren't replaced, Management wouldn't wish to see a less effective workplace as that isn't good business practice. They are just doing away with what wasn't needed as Technology has taken over?

Every year the world advances into more Technology which is reducing jobs for humans. I'm guessing the Ford plant used robots for certain tasks which were once done by humans.
When the staff that are not replaced are nurses, doctors and ancillary staff, that results in ward closures and less patients being treated, I do not think that can be classified as efficiency.

Making drastic a drastic cut in the number of our armed forces, to be replaced by Reservists is not, in my opinion, an efficient use of the work force.

The Reservists have jobs in civvy street that have to be carried out while they are away. The fact that a Reservist can do the job of a Regular does not conversely mean that the Regular can do the Reservists job while they are doing a tour of duty.
[quote][p][bold]IronLady2010[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George4th[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ohec[/bold] wrote: About as daft as your comment George 4th Labour / Tory they are all the same looking out for themselves first, as a young man i always voted Tory in the mistaken belief that if the bosses were doing ok they would look after the workers then along came Maggie and decimated our country and that brought an end to my Tory voting days. Old Labour had a different outlook in some ways better in some ways worse, then new Labour came along and we finished up with a watered down version of a Tory but they all have one thing in common look after No1first. We now need a totally different approach one that will give us our dignity back and make us proud to be British once more i don't know where that approach will come from maybe UKIP maybe not but as i see things UKIP are the most viable alternative to either Labour / Tory or that other bunch of jokers the LibDems. Until we get central government sorted local government don't stand a chance.[/p][/quote]OK, I have been bashing the the local Labour council - I admit it! The reason is simply based on the history that I know of Southampton. I have watched the decline caused by Union agitation and strikes which were not discouraged by the local Labour party - it drove business away and stifled investment. When Labour have been in control they have done nothing but Spend Spend Spend! They make no provision for the future! Ask yourself the question, why do our educated young leave Southampton? Why do most people with business acumen seek their futures elsewhere? The only time in the past 30 years that I have seen positive activity from Southampton councils is when it is Tory! My roots should make me solid Labour but I am a believer in Free Markets and I believe in people giving at least a fair day's work for a fair days pay. I also believe in the Welfare state but I do not support the blatant abuse of it! In the past, I saw too much of people shirking when protected by the Unions! Most Labour councils eventually drive a town or city down the path to nowhere.[/p][/quote]It was the Unions that got what you have today, don't knock them, with out the Unions you still be living like if you was a 1700's peasant, And it took strikes to get it, and strikes to keep it in-line[/p][/quote]You come in for a lot of stick on here Southy, but you are 100% correct this time. Without the Unions we would still be working a six-day week, with a couple of days off at Easter and Christmas and maybe, just maybe, a couple of church holidays in between. No holidays with pay. No redundancy pay when put out of work. No payment for injuries at work, regardless of whose fault it was. No sick pay or even having the job kept open while off sick. All of these things are taken for granted by those who knock the Unions. None of our rights have been Given to us, the Unions have had to fight for them.[/p][/quote]The Unions fought and won a very long time ago. The trouble was/is, they carried on fighting![/p][/quote]So you think all the battles have been won? If you do, then you are either very naive, very gullible or very stupid.[/p][/quote]I think the Unions overstepped their remit when they tried to maintain 3 men doing 1 man's job! (In some places the ratio was even worse!). Southampton Docks and Vospers were classic examples of this stupidity! > I believe that the average worker has sussed out the shortfall of being in a Union hence why Union membership has HALVED since the 80s despite the huge increase in the working population![/p][/quote]But you are quite happy when people retire and are not replaced meaning that those who remain have to share that person's work between them? In every dispute there are two sides. Each side has its own agenda and its own point of view. By discussion and negotiation, agreements are invariably reached. These negotiations are not usually conducted in public, but whispers from both sides invariably reach the media, who then also put their spin on it. Quite often, that spin can cause an upset in the tentative agreement that has been reached and is to be put to the work force by the unions. The media thrive on discontent, because that is what makes headlines and sells more papers.[/p][/quote]Surely, If and when people retire and aren't replaced, Management wouldn't wish to see a less effective workplace as that isn't good business practice. They are just doing away with what wasn't needed as Technology has taken over? Every year the world advances into more Technology which is reducing jobs for humans. I'm guessing the Ford plant used robots for certain tasks which were once done by humans.[/p][/quote]When the staff that are not replaced are nurses, doctors and ancillary staff, that results in ward closures and less patients being treated, I do not think that can be classified as efficiency. Making drastic a drastic cut in the number of our armed forces, to be replaced by Reservists is not, in my opinion, an efficient use of the work force. The Reservists have jobs in civvy street that have to be carried out while they are away. The fact that a Reservist can do the job of a Regular does not conversely mean that the Regular can do the Reservists job while they are doing a tour of duty. Linesman

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