Ford's £80m EU loan to boost Turkey factory - and close Southampton's Swaythling plant

Daily Echo: Ford's Turkey plant. Ford's Turkey plant.

THE Daily Echo can reveal today that a huge payout of EU cash was made to Ford just before the company closed its Southampton plant – and it went to boost Transit production in Turkey.

This paper has already disclosed how £10m of UK Government cash was approved to help British Ford operations just days before the Swaythling bombshell was dropped.

And now we have learnt that a cheap £80m EU loan to ramp up production of Transit vans in Turkey was also signed off just months before Ford’s devastating Southampton announcement.

The loan from the European Union’s bank, owned by Britain and fellow member states, was agreed in June as part of a billion dollar investment plan – about £600m – for Ford’s sprawling 395-acre site in Kocaeli which is taking over production of Transits from Southampton.

Last night UKIP leader and Hampshire MEP Nigel Farage, who uncovered details of the loan, said: “For a year there has been a plan in place to take the jobs at Ford away from Southampton and move them to Turkey.

“But the sting in the tail is that the money to update the (Kocaeli) factory is coming from those same workers and their families as British taxpayers are being forced to lend millions of pounds without ever being consulted.”

Mr Farage said he would now be raising the issue with the European Parliament.

In a further twist, he will also be demanding answers from Chancellor George Osborne – who is one of the bank’s governors.

Mr Farage (above) will be asking if the Chancellor knew the Turkey cash was being made available ahead of the Southampton closure. And if the Chancellor was in the dark about Ford’s Southampton’s intentions, Mr Farage will be asking why.

Daily Echo: Nigel Farage

The Treasury declined to comment.

Hampshire Lib Dem MEP Catherine Bearder said the Southampton job losses were “very disappointing”.

She said: “I can’t understand why the European investment Bank appears to have allocated funding in direct competition to jobs within the European Union.

“I will be questioning the people behind the decision to find out if the job losses in Southampton, Dagenham and Belgium were factored in when the cheque was written.”

The application for the loan from the European Investment Bank was made in October last year to finance the modernisation of the plant for the next generation of Transit vans.

Ford announced last week it planned to close its Swaythling factory in July with the loss of more than 500 jobs due to a sharp fall in European car sales.

Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn) and said it could sustain two Transit factories.

A presentation for potential investors reveals that Ford Otosan, the company that runs the Turkish plant in partnership with Ford, had sales of £3.9bn ($6.3bn) last year and made a £245m ($396m) net profit.

It sold 35,000 Transits in Turkey last year and shipped 148,000 abroad.

Ford plans to increase its Transit production capacity there from 210,000 to 290,000 vans a year by 2014.

The Southampton plant, which assembled 28,000 Transits last year and has been making them since 1972, has seen its workforce reduced in recent years to just 500, operating on a single shift.

It is due to close despite the Transit remaining the UK’s number one commercial van with sales of around 60,000 last year.

Union bosses have said Ford’s decision to invest in its cheaper overseas factories such as Kocaeli were the “death knell” for Southampton.

The eight-year loan, with a two year grace period and a two per cent interest rate, is seen as extremely cheap money when Turkish inflation is running at around nine per cent.

The European Investment Bank was unavailable last night to comment on whether any guarantees on jobs in the UK was sought prior to agreeing the Turkey loan.

The EIB is the European Union’s bank, owned by the 27 member states, and lends out money to various growth and jobs promoting projects across the EU and its borders.

The UK is joint top contributor to the bank’s core funds along with Germany, France and Italy, putting up around £30bn each.

But it raises the bulk of its lending funds from international money markets.

FOR ALL THE LATEST NEWS, REACTION AND BACKGROUND TO THE FORD CLOSURE CLICK HERE

 

 

Comments (102)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

10:24am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions. southy

10:26am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions. southy

10:35am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Nationalise the Transit Factory and carry on building vans there.
Nationalise the Transit Factory and carry on building vans there. southy

10:41am Thu 1 Nov 12

Just another reader says...

BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us??? Just another reader

10:43am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
[quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for southy

10:44am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though. Georgem

10:47am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out. Georgem

10:48am Thu 1 Nov 12

ohec says...

How dare they keep taking money that is being offered to them to secure jobs, its a bit like a auction and Ford are up for grabs to the highest bidder. Countries buy jobs now, oh yes it all comes under the heading of development grants but that just makes it sound better all they are doing is buying jobs, Turkey wants to join the E.U. but before that can happen it needs to up its game which is why over the last few years they have been quietly encouraging businesses with the lure of very cheap labour. Ford know that they have cheap labour in Turkey for at least 10 years and any other money they can secure just makes the pill a bit sweeter.
They don't care where the money comes from as long as its in their direction.
How dare they keep taking money that is being offered to them to secure jobs, its a bit like a auction and Ford are up for grabs to the highest bidder. Countries buy jobs now, oh yes it all comes under the heading of development grants but that just makes it sound better all they are doing is buying jobs, Turkey wants to join the E.U. but before that can happen it needs to up its game which is why over the last few years they have been quietly encouraging businesses with the lure of very cheap labour. Ford know that they have cheap labour in Turkey for at least 10 years and any other money they can secure just makes the pill a bit sweeter. They don't care where the money comes from as long as its in their direction. ohec

11:04am Thu 1 Nov 12

MGRA says...

southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand. MGRA

11:08am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt. southy

11:09am Thu 1 Nov 12

Inform Al says...

My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap.
My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap. Inform Al

11:11am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case. southy

11:12am Thu 1 Nov 12

Of the Ilk says...

The Ford factory in Turkey is near an earthquake fault line - when the big one hits, they will have no Transit production and their losses will be massive.
The Ford factory in Turkey is near an earthquake fault line - when the big one hits, they will have no Transit production and their losses will be massive. Of the Ilk

11:13am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once? Georgem

11:14am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU. southy

11:15am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
But there still exists a trading relationship between the EU, and Turkey. Do some research. I gave you a document to look into, go do it, before pulling your usual "I am right, everyone else is wrong" stunt. I guarantee you it's a document, not a person, by the way.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]But there still exists a trading relationship between the EU, and Turkey. Do some research. I gave you a document to look into, go do it, before pulling your usual "I am right, everyone else is wrong" stunt. I guarantee you it's a document, not a person, by the way. Georgem

11:16am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
Why? Says who? Simply stating that "in this case I am right" is not an argument.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]Why? Says who? Simply stating that "in this case I am right" is not an argument. Georgem

11:18am Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
Because they want Turkey to join the EU and accepting the money thrown at them without making a commitment.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]Because they want Turkey to join the EU and accepting the money thrown at them without making a commitment. hulla baloo

11:19am Thu 1 Nov 12

MGRA says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme
nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best. MGRA

11:30am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
What bit are you finding hard to under stand, your not in debt till out goings are larger than your incoming and even then your not in debt untill you go into the red, your debts are greater than incomings, this is some thing that will never happen to Fords because they blackmail government into paying for every thing, and when governments do pay like in the case in Spain, some one else suffers like the shareholders not picking up dividens for a few years.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]What bit are you finding hard to under stand, your not in debt till out goings are larger than your incoming and even then your not in debt untill you go into the red, your debts are greater than incomings, this is some thing that will never happen to Fords because they blackmail government into paying for every thing, and when governments do pay like in the case in Spain, some one else suffers like the shareholders not picking up dividens for a few years. southy

11:30am Thu 1 Nov 12

hedge end bob says...

Can anyone put forward good reasons why we should still stay in the common market??

As i see it as a pensioner, our country has been flooded out with cheap labour that are allowed to claim all sorts of handouts for family still living abroad. Family allowance £30,000,000 a year as reported in the media recently for one. This is just one payment that we now know of, how many more is kept a secret??.With these payments and what we fork out to the european kitty, wouldn't it be better if we said " Thanks but no thanks we no longer want to be a member" and go our own way ?.. Be governed by our own elected goverment and not by some faceless wonder abroad
Can anyone put forward good reasons why we should still stay in the common market?? As i see it as a pensioner, our country has been flooded out with cheap labour that are allowed to claim all sorts of handouts for family still living abroad. Family allowance £30,000,000 a year as reported in the media recently for one. This is just one payment that we now know of, how many more is kept a secret??.With these payments and what we fork out to the european kitty, wouldn't it be better if we said " Thanks but no thanks we no longer want to be a member" and go our own way ?.. Be governed by our own elected goverment and not by some faceless wonder abroad hedge end bob

11:31am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
What bit are you finding hard to under stand, your not in debt till out goings are larger than your incoming and even then your not in debt untill you go into the red, your debts are greater than incomings, this is some thing that will never happen to Fords because they blackmail government into paying for every thing, and when governments do pay like in the case in Spain, some one else suffers like the shareholders not picking up dividens for a few years.
What absolute and utter nonsense. You're confusing 'debt' with 'solvency'.

Case dismissed.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]What bit are you finding hard to under stand, your not in debt till out goings are larger than your incoming and even then your not in debt untill you go into the red, your debts are greater than incomings, this is some thing that will never happen to Fords because they blackmail government into paying for every thing, and when governments do pay like in the case in Spain, some one else suffers like the shareholders not picking up dividens for a few years.[/p][/quote]What absolute and utter nonsense. You're confusing 'debt' with 'solvency'. Case dismissed. Georgem

11:32am Thu 1 Nov 12

Linesman says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme

nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics. Linesman

11:34am Thu 1 Nov 12

George4th says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
You are right MGRA .
>
The fact that Fords were $34 Billion in debt around 2006 and hadn't paid a dividend to corporate shareholders for 6 years until Feb 2012 is being in profit according to Southy!
>
Given that 35,000 Transits were sold in Turkey last year and 148,000 were shipped abroad, it's a no brainer! A total of 183,000 against 28,000 made at Swaythling. And they intend taking production up to 290,000!

Ford plans to increase its Transit production capacity there from 210,000 to 290,000 vans a year by 2014. That and the geographical position make it a sound investment.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]You are right MGRA . > The fact that Fords were $34 Billion in debt around 2006 and hadn't paid a dividend to corporate shareholders for 6 years until Feb 2012 is being in profit according to Southy! > Given that 35,000 Transits were sold in Turkey last year and 148,000 were shipped abroad, it's a no brainer! A total of 183,000 against 28,000 made at Swaythling. And they intend taking production up to 290,000! Ford plans to increase its Transit production capacity there from 210,000 to 290,000 vans a year by 2014. That and the geographical position make it a sound investment. George4th

11:37am Thu 1 Nov 12

beiroot says...

I've got a cunning plan......Lets leave the EU and let Turkey take our place if they're so keen to join.I suspect a lot of countries wouldn't want to be in the EU if good old UK were to leave.There wouldn'tbe so much milk and honey on offer.
I've got a cunning plan......Lets leave the EU and let Turkey take our place if they're so keen to join.I suspect a lot of countries wouldn't want to be in the EU if good old UK were to leave.There wouldn'tbe so much milk and honey on offer. beiroot

11:40am Thu 1 Nov 12

MGRA says...

Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme


nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o
f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had. MGRA

11:41am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme

nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back. southy

11:42am Thu 1 Nov 12

Over the Edge says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They are an associate simply because of their reluctance to sign over any rights to Cyprus, which the Turks refuse point blank to do.

I find it absolutely disgusting that the EU are looking after the interests of associate member states ahead of full members state such as the UK, who contribute more than most to the EU bank.

No wonder the Tories are split over Europe again, why should we contribute the same as we always have when the EU bank just does not protect the interests of UK workers.

Let the Turks pay our share for year or so, they would soon want out.

The disgusting Tory Chancellor saying he will veto anything to protect UK taxpayers whilst agreeing to sell them out at the same time.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They are an associate simply because of their reluctance to sign over any rights to Cyprus, which the Turks refuse point blank to do. I find it absolutely disgusting that the EU are looking after the interests of associate member states ahead of full members state such as the UK, who contribute more than most to the EU bank. No wonder the Tories are split over Europe again, why should we contribute the same as we always have when the EU bank just does not protect the interests of UK workers. Let the Turks pay our share for year or so, they would soon want out. The disgusting Tory Chancellor saying he will veto anything to protect UK taxpayers whilst agreeing to sell them out at the same time. Over the Edge

11:44am Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme


nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.
What's a "normal" interest rate?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.[/p][/quote]What's a "normal" interest rate? Georgem

11:47am Thu 1 Nov 12

10 Minute Man says...

They can go and make a £20,000 van for £4000 in Turkey instead of £7000 in the UK. So that's £3000 more profit for them.

But now there's no Ford workers in the UK who can afford to have work done by the tradesmen who buy the Transits. And trades in Turkey don't expect to pay that much.

We end up with our living standards being eroded downwards at the same time others are brought up. Is this equality ? Is this a good thing ? I'm sure our socialist friend/entertainer will think it is...
They can go and make a £20,000 van for £4000 in Turkey instead of £7000 in the UK. So that's £3000 more profit for them. But now there's no Ford workers in the UK who can afford to have work done by the tradesmen who buy the Transits. And trades in Turkey don't expect to pay that much. We end up with our living standards being eroded downwards at the same time others are brought up. Is this equality ? Is this a good thing ? I'm sure our socialist friend/entertainer will think it is... 10 Minute Man

11:52am Thu 1 Nov 12

MGRA says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true. MGRA

11:55am Thu 1 Nov 12

George4th says...

MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme



nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o

f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Excellent post. Summed up very neatly.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Excellent post. Summed up very neatly. George4th

11:56am Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago. southy

11:56am Thu 1 Nov 12

MGRA says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme



nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.
What's a "normal" interest rate?
southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0)
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.[/p][/quote]What's a "normal" interest rate?[/p][/quote]southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0) MGRA

12:00pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself'' hulla baloo

12:03pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

MGRA wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme




nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.
What's a "normal" interest rate?
southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0)
Like financal aid and loans to be payed back but ends up getting wipe of the books, that is a grant.
They give this money knowing to well in the first place that they know will not be paid back, but give it a name of a loan or financal aid, just to make people think differentlly to what it really is "a grant"

Normal rate is what the going rate is at the time or just a little bit under or over.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.[/p][/quote]What's a "normal" interest rate?[/p][/quote]southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0)[/p][/quote]Like financal aid and loans to be payed back but ends up getting wipe of the books, that is a grant. They give this money knowing to well in the first place that they know will not be paid back, but give it a name of a loan or financal aid, just to make people think differentlly to what it really is "a grant" Normal rate is what the going rate is at the time or just a little bit under or over. southy

12:07pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme





nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.
What's a "normal" interest rate?
southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0)
Like financal aid and loans to be payed back but ends up getting wipe of the books, that is a grant.
They give this money knowing to well in the first place that they know will not be paid back, but give it a name of a loan or financal aid, just to make people think differentlly to what it really is "a grant"

Normal rate is what the going rate is at the time or just a little bit under or over.
A bunch of stuff you just made up. We're all painfully aware of this tactic, southy, time to retire it and get a new one.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]no some grants are repayable back, before i would call this a loan i would want to know what the interest is on top, if its a normal interest rate then its a loan, but if there is a below normal or no interest rate call it a grant. and at the moment they are keeping quiet about how much interest there is and the conditions tied to this money, and sounds like money that will be wipe off the books in a few years time with none being paid back.[/p][/quote]What's a "normal" interest rate?[/p][/quote]southy thinks a grant can be a two-pay payment. you/we are onto a looser here... :0)[/p][/quote]Like financal aid and loans to be payed back but ends up getting wipe of the books, that is a grant. They give this money knowing to well in the first place that they know will not be paid back, but give it a name of a loan or financal aid, just to make people think differentlly to what it really is "a grant" Normal rate is what the going rate is at the time or just a little bit under or over.[/p][/quote]A bunch of stuff you just made up. We're all painfully aware of this tactic, southy, time to retire it and get a new one. Georgem

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news southy

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

peenut81 says...

@hedge end bob.
I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician.
Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East.
As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters.
@hedge end bob. I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician. Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East. As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters. peenut81

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

peenut81 says...

@hedge end bob.
I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician.
Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East.
As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters.
@hedge end bob. I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician. Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East. As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters. peenut81

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

StMarysSaint says...

How ironic, I was on holiday in Turkey less than 2 weeks ago, and as I passed a shop I stopped to chat with its owner, he had a Transit parked outside, I said "Nice Van", it was made in my home town of Southampton, he said "Oh no, Germany", I had thought all Transits were made in "The home of the Transit", Southampton, but it appears not, now we have this situation where "The Home of the Transit" is moving to Turkey!
How ironic, I was on holiday in Turkey less than 2 weeks ago, and as I passed a shop I stopped to chat with its owner, he had a Transit parked outside, I said "Nice Van", it was made in my home town of Southampton, he said "Oh no, Germany", I had thought all Transits were made in "The home of the Transit", Southampton, but it appears not, now we have this situation where "The Home of the Transit" is moving to Turkey! StMarysSaint

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

StMarysSaint says...

How ironic, I was on holiday in Turkey less than 2 weeks ago, and as I passed a shop I stopped to chat with its owner, he had a Transit parked outside, I said "Nice Van", it was made in my home town of Southampton, he said "Oh no, Germany", I had thought all Transits were made in "The home of the Transit", Southampton, but it appears not, now we have this situation where "The Home of the Transit" is moving to Turkey!
How ironic, I was on holiday in Turkey less than 2 weeks ago, and as I passed a shop I stopped to chat with its owner, he had a Transit parked outside, I said "Nice Van", it was made in my home town of Southampton, he said "Oh no, Germany", I had thought all Transits were made in "The home of the Transit", Southampton, but it appears not, now we have this situation where "The Home of the Transit" is moving to Turkey! StMarysSaint

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

peenut81 says...

@hedge end bob.
I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician.
Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East.
As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters.
@hedge end bob. I am writing on behalf of the richest families in the Uk and Europe. I am typical of one of their bourgeois supporters, a lawyer, a banker, an accountant or politician. Please pipe down, the EU is an shining example of what happens when the masses are successfully divided into 'playing' two party politics in their domestic sphere. It allows the best bred to rule over you like our forefathers have done for centuries. You, the people mean nothing to us unless you are working on our behalf or consuming our goods. Here at the EU we know best. We have the best breeding in our families and most of us can trace our roots back to the Medieval and Rennaissance criminal banking and guild fraternities of the day. When the working class fought for our interests in WW2 we knew we had to establish something more permanent to link us against the next likely threat, the rise of the East. As Marx noted : The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. Not any more. The Eu intends to make it impossible for the little guy to ever argue that the established Elite in place is immoral and unworthy of power. In your universities , we teach that the wisdom of our pseudo-science, economics is unparellelled in human history, in your media we sow discontent and ensure that the easiest scapegoats are found for the troubles that our class based system requires, racism and sexism are a result of the patriachal, eugenics based hierarchy that runs through our high European culture. This is the EU project and there is only three ways to look at it, accept your natural place at the bottom and support us, encourage xenophobia and send Europe into civil war, or of course the one the richest 10% fear most: unite your own local community, reject Capitalism, reject the class system and show solidarity with your brothers and sisters. peenut81

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

davehills says...

So...will the EU give an £80m to any other company wishing to take over the Swaything plant?

If so, it's time for the Government to get on the phone to all the Chinese car manufacturers and ask them to start car assembly in Southampton.
So...will the EU give an £80m to any other company wishing to take over the Swaything plant? If so, it's time for the Government to get on the phone to all the Chinese car manufacturers and ask them to start car assembly in Southampton. davehills

12:18pm Thu 1 Nov 12

davehills says...

So...will the EU give an £80m to any other company wishing to take over the Swaything plant?

If so, it's time for the Government to get on the phone to all the Chinese car manufacturers and ask them to start car assembly in Southampton.
So...will the EU give an £80m to any other company wishing to take over the Swaything plant? If so, it's time for the Government to get on the phone to all the Chinese car manufacturers and ask them to start car assembly in Southampton. davehills

12:19pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news southy

12:23pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make.
If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news[/p][/quote]Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make. If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right. hulla baloo

12:29pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Lone Ranger. says...

Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ??????? Lone Ranger.

12:32pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????
a tax refund? ;)
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????[/p][/quote]a tax refund? ;) hulla baloo

12:33pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????
a tax refund? ;)
You hope
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????[/p][/quote]a tax refund? ;)[/p][/quote]You hope southy

12:35pm Thu 1 Nov 12

meechy says...

Turkey has never been refused entry to the EU. It's formal application to join was made in 2005, and it is a long ongoing process to meet the criteria for acceptance.
Turkey has never been refused entry to the EU. It's formal application to join was made in 2005, and it is a long ongoing process to meet the criteria for acceptance. meechy

12:37pm Thu 1 Nov 12

meechy says...

If there are any doubters as to the veracity of my previous post please refer to http://www.abgs.gov.
tr/files/strateji/ya
bs_en1.pdf
If there are any doubters as to the veracity of my previous post please refer to http://www.abgs.gov. tr/files/strateji/ya bs_en1.pdf meechy

12:44pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in
fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg
i.html
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html hulla baloo

12:45pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make.
If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right.
I do not need to I know there are a few of us left from a few years ago when at the time Fords was on strike because of job losses, because on the Turkey Factory was being built at the time, and they got the go ahead because of Turkey 2nd application to join the EU, alot of people was comfident that it would a yes, it was the time that we was to learn that Turkey was going to get most of the Ford Transits building while Southampton would only be making the chasis cabs only
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news[/p][/quote]Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make. If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right.[/p][/quote]I do not need to I know there are a few of us left from a few years ago when at the time Fords was on strike because of job losses, because on the Turkey Factory was being built at the time, and they got the go ahead because of Turkey 2nd application to join the EU, alot of people was comfident that it would a yes, it was the time that we was to learn that Turkey was going to get most of the Ford Transits building while Southampton would only be making the chasis cabs only southy

12:51pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make.
If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right.
I do not need to I know there are a few of us left from a few years ago when at the time Fords was on strike because of job losses, because on the Turkey Factory was being built at the time, and they got the go ahead because of Turkey 2nd application to join the EU, alot of people was comfident that it would a yes, it was the time that we was to learn that Turkey was going to get most of the Ford Transits building while Southampton would only be making the chasis cabs only
I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news[/p][/quote]Here we go again, usual answer when challenged about a statement you make. If it is that easy, and well publicised, will only take you a couple of minutes to find, and prove yourself right.[/p][/quote]I do not need to I know there are a few of us left from a few years ago when at the time Fords was on strike because of job losses, because on the Turkey Factory was being built at the time, and they got the go ahead because of Turkey 2nd application to join the EU, alot of people was comfident that it would a yes, it was the time that we was to learn that Turkey was going to get most of the Ford Transits building while Southampton would only be making the chasis cabs only[/p][/quote]I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings. hulla baloo

12:55pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Danae says...

Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe? Danae

12:56pm Thu 1 Nov 12

meechy says...

Hulla Baloo said...

I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings.

I did exactly the same, and agree with Hulla Baloo.
Hulla Baloo said... I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings. I did exactly the same, and agree with Hulla Baloo. meechy

12:57pm Thu 1 Nov 12

bobbyboy says...

MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme



nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o

f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now. bobbyboy

12:58pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Danae says...

Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe? Danae

1:03pm Thu 1 Nov 12

andysaints007 says...

Inform Al wrote:
My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap.
Un-informed Al
[quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap.[/p][/quote]Un-informed Al andysaints007

1:04pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Cyber__Fug says...

meechy wrote:
Hulla Baloo said...

I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings.

I did exactly the same, and agree with Hulla Baloo.
... and this is the point that Southy will normally (a) disappear from the subject (b) come out with a statement that he has access to top secret information or (c) keep lying and spin it around to say that was what he meant. ;o)
[quote][p][bold]meechy[/bold] wrote: Hulla Baloo said... I have made a statement that contradicts yours. I have also provided a link for info to back up my statement. If you wish to continue down this path, then I suggest you are in a position to back up what you say, or it will just be classed as yet another of Southy ramblings. I did exactly the same, and agree with Hulla Baloo.[/p][/quote]... and this is the point that Southy will normally (a) disappear from the subject (b) come out with a statement that he has access to top secret information or (c) keep lying and spin it around to say that was what he meant. ;o) Cyber__Fug

1:04pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in

fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg

i.html
Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready.
But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html[/p][/quote]Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready. But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe. southy

1:11pm Thu 1 Nov 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''
well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news
No, southy.

Turkey formally applied for full EU membership on 14 April 1987. This application has NEVER been refused.

It has been deferred to enable Turkey to meet certain joining requirements and negotiations have been in progress ever since.

So, you are WRONG to say membership has been refused twice. But then, being wrong is the one thing that you excel at.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Where did you get your info from? And dont come back with your usual cop out of '' look for it yourself''[/p][/quote]well look it up, it was on most on the international media news. papers tv & radio and internet news[/p][/quote]No, southy. Turkey formally applied for full EU membership on 14 April 1987. This application has NEVER been refused. It has been deferred to enable Turkey to meet certain joining requirements and negotiations have been in progress ever since. So, you are WRONG to say membership has been refused twice. But then, being wrong is the one thing that you excel at. freefinker

1:15pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in


fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg


i.html
Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready.
But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.
Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed.
The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html[/p][/quote]Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready. But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.[/p][/quote]Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed. The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these. hulla baloo

1:17pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in



fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg



i.html
Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready.
But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.
Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed.
The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.
PS.
Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect?
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html[/p][/quote]Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready. But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.[/p][/quote]Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed. The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.[/p][/quote]PS. Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect? hulla baloo

1:19pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Danae wrote:
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia.
every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)
[quote][p][bold]Danae[/bold] wrote: Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?[/p][/quote]That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia. every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea) southy

1:26pm Thu 1 Nov 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Profit and loss are quite different from debts and assets.

I know this is a difficult concept for you to understand, but never the less it is true.

A company can be heavily in debt (to banks, for example) but still make an annual profit (even after paying interest on the debt).

Fords worldwide are still heavily in debt (they owe shedloads of money) but their trading activities in the past year has shown a surplus of income over expenditure.

I can’t make it any simpler for you. If you still fail to understand it’s a reflection on your apparently limited intellectual capabilities.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Profit and loss are quite different from debts and assets. I know this is a difficult concept for you to understand, but never the less it is true. A company can be heavily in debt (to banks, for example) but still make an annual profit (even after paying interest on the debt). Fords worldwide are still heavily in debt (they owe shedloads of money) but their trading activities in the past year has shown a surplus of income over expenditure. I can’t make it any simpler for you. If you still fail to understand it’s a reflection on your apparently limited intellectual capabilities. freefinker

1:29pm Thu 1 Nov 12

freefinker says...

southy wrote:
Danae wrote:
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia.
every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)
.. and?
Your point being?
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Danae[/bold] wrote: Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?[/p][/quote]That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia. every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)[/p][/quote].. and? Your point being? freefinker

1:31pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

freefinker wrote:
southy wrote:
Danae wrote:
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia.
every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)
.. and?
Your point being?
That he has google earth?
[quote][p][bold]freefinker[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Danae[/bold] wrote: Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?[/p][/quote]That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia. every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)[/p][/quote].. and? Your point being?[/p][/quote]That he has google earth? hulla baloo

1:46pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Shoong says...

southy wrote:
Danae wrote:
Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia.

Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?
That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia.
every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)
Oh Peter, Peter, Peter, what an absolute mug you have made of yourself today.

Quality entertainment.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Danae[/bold] wrote: Kocaeli, being east of Istanbul and the Bosphorus, is in Asia. Is it within the EU's terms of reference to provide this business financial aid to a company in a continent other than Europe?[/p][/quote]That is true most of Turkey is not in Europe but in Asia. every thing east of the bosphorus and dardanelles straits is Asia (the 2 narrow channels that connects up the Aegean sea, Marmara and Black sea)[/p][/quote]Oh Peter, Peter, Peter, what an absolute mug you have made of yourself today. Quality entertainment. Shoong

1:47pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Shoong says...

bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme




nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o


f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Threats behind the anonymity of a website.

Big man.
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Threats behind the anonymity of a website. Big man. Shoong

1:51pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
"Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)"

Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit.

This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.
I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.
You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.
Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts.

What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?
...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????
Balance sheet.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: "Ford is forecasting European losses of £930m ($1.5bn)" Do not make the mistake like Gorge do on here looks at the lost making and never the profit. This is only a forcast, but is the forcast in profits that is in the Billions.[/p][/quote]I have never made that mistake. I have just pointed out that it's possible to both make a profit, and be in debt, at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that you can't figure out the difference, though.[/p][/quote]You can not be in debt while making a massive profit, all you can be doing is making a lost in profit and that is not a debt.[/p][/quote]Of course you can. I have savings. I also have a credit card bill. My company has cash assets in the bank, and has turned a profit. It also has debts. What bit of this are you finding difficult? Other than the bit where you have to admit someone else is right for once?[/p][/quote]...... And at the year end, you reconcille your profit v losses you end up with .... a .. ???????[/p][/quote]Balance sheet. Georgem

1:53pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

hulla baloo wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in




fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg




i.html
Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready.
But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.
Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed.
The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.
PS.
Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect?
Come out, come out, wherever you are.
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html[/p][/quote]Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready. But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.[/p][/quote]Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed. The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.[/p][/quote]PS. Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect?[/p][/quote]Come out, come out, wherever you are. hulla baloo

1:54pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme




nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o


f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is. Georgem

1:55pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

Georgem wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme





nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o



f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.
Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though!
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.[/p][/quote]Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though! Georgem

2:01pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

hulla baloo wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.
They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.
not true.
Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.
Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership''
source http://www.avrupa.in




fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg




i.html
Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready.
But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.
Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed.
The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.
PS.
Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect?
The Bilderberg meeting first happened in 1945 near the very end of WWII in the Bilderberg Hotel, Some of the people that was there at that first meeting was, Eisenhower, Paton, Churchill, Montgomery, Rothchilds, Rockafella, Kaiser and more,they was all top arm forces personal, financers and industarlist and Politicians, it was these people idea
no twice they been refuse, and its in 3 years time when they can apply again
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]They're not, strictly speaking. Turkey is an associate member of the EU. Whether or not this means they should get an EU grant, I don't know. Read the Ankara Agreement and find out.[/p][/quote]They been refuse entery twice now into the EU.[/p][/quote]not true.[/p][/quote]Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago.[/p][/quote]Southy ''The EU is committed to supporting Turkey in its path for membership'' source http://www.avrupa.in fo.tr/AB_Mali_Desteg i.html[/p][/quote]Yes that was after the refuse vote of them joining at that time, they concidered Turkey not ready. But think it stems back to 1945 and the and the Bilderberg meeting when the EU in it design was first thought up and out down on paper, Turkey was not on the list of countrys to be though about for a Union of Europe.[/p][/quote]Maybe because Turkey was not in Europe, and this meeting does not make it a refusal, if this ever existed. The first of the Bilderberg meetings took place, not in 1945 but 1954. Turkey are now involved with these.[/p][/quote]PS. Still waiting your proof to back this previous statement ''Yes it is true, tiwce now they been refuse entery to the EU, last time was only 2 years ago'' or do you now concede you are incorrect?[/p][/quote]The Bilderberg meeting first happened in 1945 near the very end of WWII in the Bilderberg Hotel, Some of the people that was there at that first meeting was, Eisenhower, Paton, Churchill, Montgomery, Rothchilds, Rockafella, Kaiser and more,they was all top arm forces personal, financers and industarlist and Politicians, it was these people idea no twice they been refuse, and its in 3 years time when they can apply again southy

2:08pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

Oh dear Southy, best check facts before make postings. Today is not your day is it?
First meeting was held in 1954. Source is the official Bilderberg website link is http://www.bilderber
gmeetings.org/index.
php

Still waiting for the other info you claim is fact.
Oh dear Southy, best check facts before make postings. Today is not your day is it? First meeting was held in 1954. Source is the official Bilderberg website link is http://www.bilderber gmeetings.org/index. php Still waiting for the other info you claim is fact. hulla baloo

2:09pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southy says...

Georgem wrote:
Georgem wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme






nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o




f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.
Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though!
Well your type of Economic are not working are they, we can see the result what is happening because its your type of economics that is being use.
And all it do give the wealth to the few and make the less wealthy pay to pay for them.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.[/p][/quote]Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though![/p][/quote]Well your type of Economic are not working are they, we can see the result what is happening because its your type of economics that is being use. And all it do give the wealth to the few and make the less wealthy pay to pay for them. southy

2:13pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

southy wrote:
Georgem wrote:
Georgem wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme







nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o





f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.
Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though!
Well your type of Economic are not working are they, we can see the result what is happening because its your type of economics that is being use.
And all it do give the wealth to the few and make the less wealthy pay to pay for them.
You haven't even got any idea what my economics are! You are pretending that, simply because I don't agree with you on some point or other, then you are able to magically extrapolate every last detail of every last working part of my life from that, and running with it. Give up. You're clueless. The world does not neatly divide into "socialists" and "everyone else, who are all wrong about everything, always, ever" as you seem to think. Give up this ridiculous charade, or I'll start asking you about the Rahit Maryada again.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.[/p][/quote]Not sure why it's quoted bobbyboy's comment, though![/p][/quote]Well your type of Economic are not working are they, we can see the result what is happening because its your type of economics that is being use. And all it do give the wealth to the few and make the less wealthy pay to pay for them.[/p][/quote]You haven't even got any idea what my economics are! You are pretending that, simply because I don't agree with you on some point or other, then you are able to magically extrapolate every last detail of every last working part of my life from that, and running with it. Give up. You're clueless. The world does not neatly divide into "socialists" and "everyone else, who are all wrong about everything, always, ever" as you seem to think. Give up this ridiculous charade, or I'll start asking you about the Rahit Maryada again. Georgem

2:28pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Safehands says...

MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme

nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
Your opinions of unions seem to be from the 1970s. The Company I work for have a cordial relationship with the trade unions, and together have moved the company forward leaps and bounds.

We don't all strike at the drop of a hat and bankrupt private enterprise you know.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]Your opinions of unions seem to be from the 1970s. The Company I work for have a cordial relationship with the trade unions, and together have moved the company forward leaps and bounds. We don't all strike at the drop of a hat and bankrupt private enterprise you know. Safehands

3:13pm Thu 1 Nov 12

George4th says...

Safehands wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme


nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
Your opinions of unions seem to be from the 1970s. The Company I work for have a cordial relationship with the trade unions, and together have moved the company forward leaps and bounds.

We don't all strike at the drop of a hat and bankrupt private enterprise you know.
It is unfortunate that you are a victim of history that saw the Unions effectively blackmailing the likes of Fords by threatening to strike or actually striking. It is a history that affected the whole of Southampton - Docks/Shipbuilding/C
ables/etc etc.
When a point is reached that a company is no longer making enough profit to both invest for the future and/or pay shareholders, there is only one course left!
>
As much as the Unions were a very good thing in their infancy for pay and conditions, they lost the plot and were taken over by Left Wing egotists.
Unions stifled progress, modernisation and investment - Result? There for all to see.
[quote][p][bold]Safehands[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]Your opinions of unions seem to be from the 1970s. The Company I work for have a cordial relationship with the trade unions, and together have moved the company forward leaps and bounds. We don't all strike at the drop of a hat and bankrupt private enterprise you know.[/p][/quote]It is unfortunate that you are a victim of history that saw the Unions effectively blackmailing the likes of Fords by threatening to strike or actually striking. It is a history that affected the whole of Southampton - Docks/Shipbuilding/C ables/etc etc. When a point is reached that a company is no longer making enough profit to both invest for the future and/or pay shareholders, there is only one course left! > As much as the Unions were a very good thing in their infancy for pay and conditions, they lost the plot and were taken over by Left Wing egotists. Unions stifled progress, modernisation and investment - Result? There for all to see. George4th

3:29pm Thu 1 Nov 12

hulla baloo says...

Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either
a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU
b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings
or
c) disproved me on both counts
or
d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories.
Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings or c) disproved me on both counts or d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories. hulla baloo

3:39pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Georgem says...

hulla baloo wrote:
Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either
a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU
b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings
or
c) disproved me on both counts
or
d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories.
Southy will surely deliver....

http://i.imgur.com/W
zTqY.jpg
[quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings or c) disproved me on both counts or d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories.[/p][/quote]Southy will surely deliver.... http://i.imgur.com/W zTqY.jpg Georgem

3:40pm Thu 1 Nov 12

loosehead says...

I'm a total Eu Sceptic & I believe in total withdrawal.
We hear from Pro Europeans that being in the EU safeguards jobs FALSE,
BAT MARTINI's Black & Decker, Makers of Colgate & now Fords have proven this to be a lie.
We should get the hell out of the EU & use our £14billion yearly payment to cut the deficit & to make this country attractive to outside companies to set up business here.
I have to agree with Southy on this subject.
Turkey wanted EU membership but Germany didn't want them even though our then leader Gordan Brown wanted to see them become members.
So why the hell is our money going to countries outside of the EU no matter if they're linked ( slightly).
We the people of this country want & need our money to stay here in the UK.
We need to stay a United Kingdom & get back to the days we ruled our country not the EU
I'm a total Eu Sceptic & I believe in total withdrawal. We hear from Pro Europeans that being in the EU safeguards jobs FALSE, BAT MARTINI's Black & Decker, Makers of Colgate & now Fords have proven this to be a lie. We should get the hell out of the EU & use our £14billion yearly payment to cut the deficit & to make this country attractive to outside companies to set up business here. I have to agree with Southy on this subject. Turkey wanted EU membership but Germany didn't want them even though our then leader Gordan Brown wanted to see them become members. So why the hell is our money going to countries outside of the EU no matter if they're linked ( slightly). We the people of this country want & need our money to stay here in the UK. We need to stay a United Kingdom & get back to the days we ruled our country not the EU loosehead

3:51pm Thu 1 Nov 12

loosehead says...

After reading many posts from the left as well as the right saying we should get out of the EU how many Labour Supporters will be voting UKIP?
Or will you carry on voting Labour? If so exactly where does the Labour Party stand on the EU?
After reading many posts from the left as well as the right saying we should get out of the EU how many Labour Supporters will be voting UKIP? Or will you carry on voting Labour? If so exactly where does the Labour Party stand on the EU? loosehead

4:16pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Linesman says...

MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme



nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o

f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Leading the ALLEGED recovery (see Comet latest) is the increase in part-time workers. They are all classified as being employed, which gives a false reading to the statistics and increases those qualifying for tax credits and top-up payments.

I quite understand that Ford is not a UK country. Strange as it may seem, I am even aware that Henry Ford was an American!

So Ford are vacating a 'Prime Commercial Space.' There are many such sites in the country that have already been developed, but thanks to this incompetent government, many units are now vacant, just like so many high streets with vacant properties.

This government has taken the wrong course of action. It has seen people lose their jobs, which means less money to spend in shops and less revenue for the government in taxes. This has seen the government cut back on various benefits, meaning even less money being circulated.

Even Michael Hesseltine, the darling of the Tory Party, thinks that Cameron&Co have got it wrong.

Instead of getting people back to work, this government is putting them out of work.
[quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Leading the ALLEGED recovery (see Comet latest) is the increase in part-time workers. They are all classified as being employed, which gives a false reading to the statistics and increases those qualifying for tax credits and top-up payments. I quite understand that Ford is not a UK country. Strange as it may seem, I am even aware that Henry Ford was an American! So Ford are vacating a 'Prime Commercial Space.' There are many such sites in the country that have already been developed, but thanks to this incompetent government, many units are now vacant, just like so many high streets with vacant properties. This government has taken the wrong course of action. It has seen people lose their jobs, which means less money to spend in shops and less revenue for the government in taxes. This has seen the government cut back on various benefits, meaning even less money being circulated. Even Michael Hesseltine, the darling of the Tory Party, thinks that Cameron&Co have got it wrong. Instead of getting people back to work, this government is putting them out of work. Linesman

4:57pm Thu 1 Nov 12

ohec says...

Georgem wrote:
bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme





nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o



f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.
Not Much.
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]Today, southy demonstrates once again that simple economics is beyond his grasp. Stick to what you know, southy, whatever that is.[/p][/quote]Not Much. ohec

5:02pm Thu 1 Nov 12

George4th says...

Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme




nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o


f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Leading the ALLEGED recovery (see Comet latest) is the increase in part-time workers. They are all classified as being employed, which gives a false reading to the statistics and increases those qualifying for tax credits and top-up payments.

I quite understand that Ford is not a UK country. Strange as it may seem, I am even aware that Henry Ford was an American!

So Ford are vacating a 'Prime Commercial Space.' There are many such sites in the country that have already been developed, but thanks to this incompetent government, many units are now vacant, just like so many high streets with vacant properties.

This government has taken the wrong course of action. It has seen people lose their jobs, which means less money to spend in shops and less revenue for the government in taxes. This has seen the government cut back on various benefits, meaning even less money being circulated.

Even Michael Hesseltine, the darling of the Tory Party, thinks that Cameron&Co have got it wrong.

Instead of getting people back to work, this government is putting them out of work.
How do you explain the stockmarket being as high as it is? How do you explain why people are paying mega money for property in London? How do you explain why the IMF back us? How do you explain all the economic counters looking very positive? How do you explain the highest number of people employed in our history? How do you explain how we have retained our Triple A rating allowing us to borrow very cheap money? Etc etc.
>
Given the terrible state of the UK economy that Labour handed over, the Coalition have done a brilliant job. Had the Labour government continued we would now be in the same position as Greece!!
[quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Leading the ALLEGED recovery (see Comet latest) is the increase in part-time workers. They are all classified as being employed, which gives a false reading to the statistics and increases those qualifying for tax credits and top-up payments. I quite understand that Ford is not a UK country. Strange as it may seem, I am even aware that Henry Ford was an American! So Ford are vacating a 'Prime Commercial Space.' There are many such sites in the country that have already been developed, but thanks to this incompetent government, many units are now vacant, just like so many high streets with vacant properties. This government has taken the wrong course of action. It has seen people lose their jobs, which means less money to spend in shops and less revenue for the government in taxes. This has seen the government cut back on various benefits, meaning even less money being circulated. Even Michael Hesseltine, the darling of the Tory Party, thinks that Cameron&Co have got it wrong. Instead of getting people back to work, this government is putting them out of work.[/p][/quote]How do you explain the stockmarket being as high as it is? How do you explain why people are paying mega money for property in London? How do you explain why the IMF back us? How do you explain all the economic counters looking very positive? How do you explain the highest number of people employed in our history? How do you explain how we have retained our Triple A rating allowing us to borrow very cheap money? Etc etc. > Given the terrible state of the UK economy that Labour handed over, the Coalition have done a brilliant job. Had the Labour government continued we would now be in the same position as Greece!! George4th

5:03pm Thu 1 Nov 12

freefinker says...

Georgem wrote:
hulla baloo wrote:
Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either
a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU
b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings
or
c) disproved me on both counts
or
d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories.
Southy will surely deliver....

http://i.imgur.com/W

zTqY.jpg
@ Georgem - lol
@ hulla baloo - I'd put my house on d)
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hulla baloo[/bold] wrote: Southy, I am going out now, so dont take my absence as hiding. However, tomorrow I will look and see if you have either a) admitted you are wrong about Turkey and the EU b) admitted you are wrong about the Bildenberg meetings or c) disproved me on both counts or d) ignored altogether and moved onto another subject to baffle us with your knowledge, baseless facts and stories.[/p][/quote]Southy will surely deliver.... http://i.imgur.com/W zTqY.jpg[/p][/quote]@ Georgem - lol @ hulla baloo - I'd put my house on d) freefinker

5:31pm Thu 1 Nov 12

andysaints007 says...

Of the Ilk wrote:
The Ford factory in Turkey is near an earthquake fault line - when the big one hits, they will have no Transit production and their losses will be massive.
Wow !! Maybe you should be running Fords and showing them what to do Mr Expert
[quote][p][bold]Of the Ilk[/bold] wrote: The Ford factory in Turkey is near an earthquake fault line - when the big one hits, they will have no Transit production and their losses will be massive.[/p][/quote]Wow !! Maybe you should be running Fords and showing them what to do Mr Expert andysaints007

5:40pm Thu 1 Nov 12

andysaints007 says...

bobbyboy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
Linesman wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
MGRA wrote:
southy wrote:
Just another reader wrote:
BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???
Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for
no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.
A grant is a loan in this case.
no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme




nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.
"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........."

Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector?

If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.
if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o


f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.
Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.
No don't delete it cos bobbyboy is just a **** and would probably sh*t himself in real life if he were man enough to say that to your face !!
[quote][p][bold]bobbyboy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linesman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MGRA[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Just another reader[/bold] wrote: BAT, Martini, AC Delcos, Twinings, and now Ford have left the country thanks to EU grants. Why the hell are we still in the EU if this is what happens to us???[/p][/quote]Bigger question is why the EU giving grants out side the EU for[/p][/quote]no the bigger question is why do you not read the articles properly. Its not a grant, its a loan they have recieved. It will directly benefit parts makers and engine assembly in the EU. Its not a difficult thing to understand.[/p][/quote]A grant is a loan in this case.[/p][/quote]no a grant is a one-way payment. A loan is a two way payment. So the turkish money A. gets paid back with interest and B. gets used to help secure jobs in the EU. The only thing that is stupid about this whole saga is that strategically it makes no sense. There is a predicted earthquake in the turkish region in the next decade that would halt production. BUT if I was Ford Global I would know that A. the products are inferior and B. the UK, france and other EU countries are unionised and inflexible so they are balancing all that and weighing up the pros and cons. As for your plan to "nationalise" the Eastleigh plant, why would we want nationally owned inferior cabin-based versions of a light van/pickup ?!?! I admire your ethics on this , but the reality does not match the ideals. Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce which will be non unionised and will bring in more corportation tax and local rates for the authorities/governme nt. Its a win-win and hopefully some of the ex ford workers can retrain and get a new job there in the future. I wish them all the best.[/p][/quote]"Closing this plant will bring over 1000 jobs on that site through commerce.........." Is that similar to all the jobs that the private sector were going to take up from those made redundant in the public sector? If it is, then I guess that they will be part-time jobs to massage the government's statistics.[/p][/quote]if you look at projected short term private sector jobs then indeed the government was/is correct. They are leading the recovery. Regards Ford, what people fail to understand is the fact that Ford is NOT a UK company. It has to compete globaly with the most successful light commercial vehicle maker by a mile that is toyota. Toyota produce reliable and cheap vehicles and Ford produce un-reliable and expensive vehicles. Toyota have plants in developing countries mostly and Ford do not. Ford can not improve their product because they do not have the funds to inveset. Toyota do. So this decision is sad for the workers but it was always going to be the case. That site is prime commercial space and Eastleigh B.C. must be quietly cheering at this news. Because of its location the site is strategic golddust and I would expect companies from the channel islands, france, germany and benelux to be looking at that site for strategic sites. The benefit also to the local economy would be huge. So for me its look forward, not hark back at the production of expensive, unreliable vans made by brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers who slowly killed off what competitivness the plant ever had.[/p][/quote]Dear MGRA please delete the quote where you call me and my fellow workers Quote, Brainwashed strike-at-the-drop-o f-a-hat workers Unquote, i find this offensive so unless you have a healthy policiy in Simply Health delete it now.[/p][/quote]No don't delete it cos bobbyboy is just a **** and would probably sh*t himself in real life if he were man enough to say that to your face !! andysaints007

6:57pm Thu 1 Nov 12

Inform Al says...

andysaints007 wrote:
Inform Al wrote:
My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap.
Un-informed Al
Pr&tt.
[quote][p][bold]andysaints007[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Inform Al[/bold] wrote: My current car is a Peugeot, the next one will not be, due to none being made in the UK any more. Looks like I'll never own another Ford either. Perhaps we should be more like the Frogs and boycott car manufacturers who do not make cars here. Never thought I'd be advocating to buy Jap.[/p][/quote]Un-informed Al[/p][/quote]Pr&tt. Inform Al

7:04pm Thu 1 Nov 12

skin2000 says...

I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.
I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be. skin2000

8:41pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southampton999 says...

southy wrote:
Nationalise the Transit Factory and carry on building vans there.
Or boycott Ford's and instead buy a Sprinter, miles better vans and it's better to give the money to ze Germans than the Turkish. At least they pay their taxes.
[quote][p][bold]southy[/bold] wrote: Nationalise the Transit Factory and carry on building vans there.[/p][/quote]Or boycott Ford's and instead buy a Sprinter, miles better vans and it's better to give the money to ze Germans than the Turkish. At least they pay their taxes. southampton999

8:47pm Thu 1 Nov 12

southampton999 says...

Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em.
Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em. southampton999

9:08pm Thu 1 Nov 12

loosehead says...

southampton999 wrote:
Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em.
when alive my brother lived in Darwin Road & there was talk of turning the runway west wood over that road into fields at the bottom of Darwin Rd?
Has anyone found out if the Airport still own the land that Fords are on?
or at least the paint shop?
[quote][p][bold]southampton999[/bold] wrote: Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em.[/p][/quote]when alive my brother lived in Darwin Road & there was talk of turning the runway west wood over that road into fields at the bottom of Darwin Rd? Has anyone found out if the Airport still own the land that Fords are on? or at least the paint shop? loosehead

9:08pm Thu 1 Nov 12

loosehead says...

loosehead wrote:
southampton999 wrote:
Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em.
when alive my brother lived in Darwin Road & there was talk of turning the runway west wood over that road into fields at the bottom of Darwin Rd?
Has anyone found out if the Airport still own the land that Fords are on?
or at least the paint shop?
meant to say westward
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]southampton999[/bold] wrote: Anyway, if the Ford factory is going we should expand the runway over the motorway and through the land where the factory is. That way Southampton can become Heathrow's third runway. A 200 mph train to Heathrow would take 22 minutes so that would solve the issues about expanding Heathrow and provide loads of jobs in Southampton. Ford don't want to be here so stuff 'em.[/p][/quote]when alive my brother lived in Darwin Road & there was talk of turning the runway west wood over that road into fields at the bottom of Darwin Rd? Has anyone found out if the Airport still own the land that Fords are on? or at least the paint shop?[/p][/quote]meant to say westward loosehead

9:40am Fri 2 Nov 12

Georgem says...

skin2000 wrote:
I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.
Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted?
[quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.[/p][/quote]Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted? Georgem

11:36am Fri 2 Nov 12

loosehead says...

Georgem wrote:
skin2000 wrote:
I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.
Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted?
But we never voted for the EU or anything like we have now did we?
I voted against the European Economic Community where all nations would keep their Sovereignty & their own Governments,Currenci
es & Laws & would just trade with each other or A Trading Block.
We are now being told by foreign courts what we can do.
We've lost at least one Company due to laws passed by a EU commission When oh! When did we vote to join anything like this?
Brown promised us a vote on the treaty but changed it's title but all but it's title it was the Treaty yet we never had a vote because it wasn't called a treaty?
Give us a vote on The EU that we've never had!
[quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.[/p][/quote]Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted?[/p][/quote]But we never voted for the EU or anything like we have now did we? I voted against the European Economic Community where all nations would keep their Sovereignty & their own Governments,Currenci es & Laws & would just trade with each other or A Trading Block. We are now being told by foreign courts what we can do. We've lost at least one Company due to laws passed by a EU commission When oh! When did we vote to join anything like this? Brown promised us a vote on the treaty but changed it's title but all but it's title it was the Treaty yet we never had a vote because it wasn't called a treaty? Give us a vote on The EU that we've never had! loosehead

12:00pm Fri 2 Nov 12

Georgem says...

loosehead wrote:
Georgem wrote:
skin2000 wrote:
I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.
Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted?
But we never voted for the EU or anything like we have now did we?
I voted against the European Economic Community where all nations would keep their Sovereignty & their own Governments,Currenci

es & Laws & would just trade with each other or A Trading Block.
We are now being told by foreign courts what we can do.
We've lost at least one Company due to laws passed by a EU commission When oh! When did we vote to join anything like this?
Brown promised us a vote on the treaty but changed it's title but all but it's title it was the Treaty yet we never had a vote because it wasn't called a treaty?
Give us a vote on The EU that we've never had!
Eh?
[quote][p][bold]loosehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Georgem[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]skin2000[/bold] wrote: I believe that the electorate should be given a referendum on the EU, but we will not get one, because the politician's are frightened of what the result might be.[/p][/quote]Why don't they just do what the Irish government did, and keep holding referendums over and over until the result goes the way they wanted?[/p][/quote]But we never voted for the EU or anything like we have now did we? I voted against the European Economic Community where all nations would keep their Sovereignty & their own Governments,Currenci es & Laws & would just trade with each other or A Trading Block. We are now being told by foreign courts what we can do. We've lost at least one Company due to laws passed by a EU commission When oh! When did we vote to join anything like this? Brown promised us a vote on the treaty but changed it's title but all but it's title it was the Treaty yet we never had a vote because it wasn't called a treaty? Give us a vote on The EU that we've never had![/p][/quote]Eh? Georgem

5:47pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Pettle says...

loan or grant, our factories are closing. This eu despot empire and europe in general have done nothing but undermine Britain, and even our great union. When will people get this a! MARS ships abroad because of **** eu rules, yet italy, germany, and holland (don't call us holland, as it's only one part of the netherlands, well, call us Britain or the UK, you ****, instead of England to cover all Great Britain and Northern Ireland!) don't get affected. Trains, Nuclear loans etc, all because of this **** eu ****! Wake **** up!!!!!
loan or grant, our factories are closing. This eu despot empire and europe in general have done nothing but undermine Britain, and even our great union. When will people get this a! MARS ships abroad because of **** eu rules, yet italy, germany, and holland (don't call us holland, as it's only one part of the netherlands, well, call us Britain or the UK, you ****, instead of England to cover all Great Britain and Northern Ireland!) don't get affected. Trains, Nuclear loans etc, all because of this **** eu ****! Wake **** up!!!!! Pettle

5:50pm Sat 3 Nov 12

Pettle says...

I have too much energy. I want to win!!!! Come **** in on!!!!
I have too much energy. I want to win!!!! Come **** in on!!!! Pettle

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree