MP defends rent expense claim (From Daily Echo)

Does not look good.

Imagine having to meet the cost of your mortgage yourelf, I mean, what an outrageous suggestion.

Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

Why not commute like 1000's of other hampshire residents?

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

Yes, I have no doubt that you would enjoy free accommodation and free public transport.

Doing this would effectively remove them from the areas and people they are supposed to represent.

Your glib solution to the problem of MPs not being in touch with constituents (which I'm sure is a bug bear of yours) would actually be made ten times worse!

Clueless.

With the right promotion, a bunch of bannanas would have come close to winning in the PCC elections

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

Yes, I have no doubt that you would enjoy free accommodation and free public transport.

Doing this would effectively remove them from the areas and people they are supposed to represent.

Your glib solution to the problem of MPs not being in touch with constituents (which I'm sure is a bug bear of yours) would actually be made ten times worse!

Clueless.

.. to be fair to southy I think the London accommodation block is for their stays when in the capital on parliamentary business – instead if us paying for them to privately rent a flat.

And the free public transport is for commuting to and from the constituency.

freefinker wrote:

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

Yes, I have no doubt that you would enjoy free accommodation and free public transport.

Doing this would effectively remove them from the areas and people they are supposed to represent.

Your glib solution to the problem of MPs not being in touch with constituents (which I'm sure is a bug bear of yours) would actually be made ten times worse!

Clueless.

.. to be fair to southy I think the London accommodation block is for their stays when in the capital on parliamentary business – instead if us paying for them to privately rent a flat.

And the free public transport is for commuting to and from the constituency.

Sorry, I don't do 'fair' with nutters.
It's like dealing with a 5 year old.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

bigfella777 wrote:
Imagine having to meet the cost of your mortgage yourelf, I mean, what an outrageous suggestion.

Outrageous!
And he lives so so far away from Parliament he simply has to have a second home nearby, couldn't possibly expect to travel all those miles to work!

cliffwalker wrote:
With the right promotion, a bunch of bannanas would have come close to winning in the PCC elections

And to be fair ... a bunch of bananas could probably run the country better than consistent goverments have over the past 40 years

Why not build a couple of blocks of flats in London for the sole use of M.P.s, they come with the job and are vacated if they lose their seat. No more second flats, flipping etc. Job done.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

cliffwalker wrote:
With the right promotion, a bunch of bannanas would have come close to winning in the PCC elections

PMSL

dango wrote:
Why not build a couple of blocks of flats in London for the sole use of M.P.s, they come with the job and are vacated if they lose their seat. No more second flats, flipping etc. Job done.

That is what I have all ready said but in a different way.

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

I can't find it either, despite many searches of the whole www

And southy still can't resist having a dig at the Greens whenever I post - still thinks I am connected to them even though I have told him often that I'm not. Some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder me finks.

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

Here is a moral dilemma:
You're walking beside the Itchen. There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. You are a photographer and you are in the middle of this great disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the water. Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away with it.

Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar.

Suddenly you know who it is -- it's an MP you recognise.

At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him away, forever. You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. So you can save the life of A famous MP, or you can shoot a Pulitzer prize winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of this country's most powerful men.

And here's the question (please give an honest answer):

Would you select color film, or rather go with the simplicity of classic black and white?

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
Why not build a couple of blocks of flats in London for the sole use of M.P.s, they come with the job and are vacated if they lose their seat. No more second flats, flipping etc. Job done.

That is what I have all ready said but in a different way.

in that case, I retract what I've said, heaven forbid I'd be seen agreeing with you! It seems the most sensible, straightforward approach to the situation.

He might have defended himself but he's manipulated the current rules rather than doing what is morally right as an MP, somebody who should be representing people and not ripping them off for his own gain.
If he's fortunate enough to already own a flat, he should stay in it and pay the mortgage and not do what's more financially favourable to himself. Rent expenses should be used by those who don't own a flat/home/second home in London. If it's a problem having a second home, sell up.

freefinker wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

I can't find it either, despite many searches of the whole www

And southy still can't resist having a dig at the Greens whenever I post - still thinks I am connected to them even though I have told him often that I'm not. Some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder me finks.

Just that I have been going though the Greens manidest alot lately ever since 2 now ex-green party members stop and chatted to us after coming back from Brighton Budget early on in the year.
You do not need to be connected to them to support them, the same as you do not need to be connected to the TUSC or any other political party to support them, I use to have high hopes for the Green Party but the more i learn about them the less I have.

Plum Pudding wrote:
Here is a moral dilemma:
You're walking beside the Itchen. There is great chaos going on around you, caused by a hurricane and severe floods. There are huge masses of water all over you. You are a photographer and you are in the middle of this great disaster. The situation is nearly hopeless. You're trying to shoot very impressive photos. There are houses and people floating around you, disappearing into the water. Nature is showing all its destructive power and is ripping everything away with it.

Suddenly you see a man in the water, he is fighting for his life, trying not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. Somehow the man looks familiar.

Suddenly you know who it is -- it's an MP you recognise.

At the same time you notice that the raging waters are about to take him away, forever. You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo of your life. So you can save the life of A famous MP, or you can shoot a Pulitzer prize winning photo, a unique photo displaying the death of one of this country's most powerful men.

And here's the question (please give an honest answer):

Would you select color film, or rather go with the simplicity of classic black and white?

Black and white deffentlly

dango wrote:

southy wrote:

dango wrote:
Why not build a couple of blocks of flats in London for the sole use of M.P.s, they come with the job and are vacated if they lose their seat. No more second flats, flipping etc. Job done.

That is what I have all ready said but in a different way.

in that case, I retract what I've said, heaven forbid I'd be seen agreeing with you! It seems the most sensible, straightforward approach to the situation.

I been saying this for a very long time and over the years, its only Andy from Lockheath that as presented a flaw in it.
He said it would make it easy for terrorist attacks, which is true it would, but the logic answer to that is, don't go upsetting other countrys or invading them or doing wrong to your own country people.

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

Yes you did tell me where you had it...... your favourites !! Yet you wont post the link on here.

You have also said this is in both Manifestos and been used for the past 3 / 4 years, but a search of both the relevant official websites nor the www come up with anything.

post the link and worry about upsetting the echo as I will save it to my favourites before they delete the post.

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

Yes you did tell me where you had it...... your favourites !! Yet you wont post the link on here.

You have also said this is in both Manifestos and been used for the past 3 / 4 years, but a search of both the relevant official websites nor the www come up with anything.

post the link and worry about upsetting the echo as I will save it to my favourites before they delete the post.

did I post a link to the Greens Party manifest, no i did not, so why are you not complaining about that to.
I have stood in personally my self in the last 2 local elections, and both times its been a needs budget, a needs budget is to get the economy moving and that means creating jobs, like say in a housing building program to trigger the next stage off. you need people in jobs and working reasonable hours. People need money to spend in the economy for a economy to grow they also need time on there hands to be able to spend. Making cuts will result in a slump in the economy and make the debt bigger, making people work longer hours will do the same thing.
what i will do at the next quarter meeting in london, i will ask the editor of the web site to put the manifest up on the first page of the policy page

Southy, i try and come to your rescue when you make some relevant points but you don't help yourself when you make stuff up.
There is no 2012 Green Party Manifesto.
pg 35 of the 2010 manifesto refers to nuclear power and peak oil.
If you meant the London mayor election the manifesto is only 16 pages long.
I joined the Green Party 2 years ago as being the closest to an anti-capitalist party as exists in this country. I stand by that judgement today.

I tnink that being paid to spend nights away from home isn't unreasonable or unusual. So the next thing to consider is how it can be done. How about letting MPs take any profit from their second taxpayer funded home, but cutting their final salary pension to a hundredth scheme

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

.. ah!, April next year you say.

You mean after the General Election?

Remember, back in May/June 2010 you were assuring us, many, many times that the coalition would fall apart by the end of 2012 at the very latest.

And as for your "needs budget program" and the Trotskyist rag Socialism Today. You do know all their recent editions are on line, don't you?

Just looked through both the April and May 2012 editions. Know what? Nothing. Sweet FA

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

I can't find it either, despite many searches of the whole www

And southy still can't resist having a dig at the Greens whenever I post - still thinks I am connected to them even though I have told him often that I'm not. Some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder me finks.

Just that I have been going though the Greens manidest alot lately ever since 2 now ex-green party members stop and chatted to us after coming back from Brighton Budget early on in the year.
You do not need to be connected to them to support them, the same as you do not need to be connected to the TUSC or any other political party to support them, I use to have high hopes for the Green Party but the more i learn about them the less I have.

.. yes, I'm now convinced it is OCD.

You can get help for it southy.

peenut81 wrote:
Southy, i try and come to your rescue when you make some relevant points but you don't help yourself when you make stuff up.
There is no 2012 Green Party Manifesto.
pg 35 of the 2010 manifesto refers to nuclear power and peak oil.
If you meant the London mayor election the manifesto is only 16 pages long.
I joined the Green Party 2 years ago as being the closest to an anti-capitalist party as exists in this country. I stand by that judgement today.

Sorry wrong page peenut.
Page 32 of the Manifesto:
"End the corrupting effects of Trade Union donations to political parties,and bring in a fair system of state funding."
If you said Socialist Green I would beleive you in saying anti-capitalist, but the Green party is all for Capitalism just not on the same scale as the Labour and Tory party

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

.. ah!, April next year you say.

You mean after the General Election?

Remember, back in May/June 2010 you were assuring us, many, many times that the coalition would fall apart by the end of 2012 at the very latest.

And as for your "needs budget program" and the Trotskyist rag Socialism Today. You do know all their recent editions are on line, don't you?

Just looked through both the April and May 2012 editions. Know what? Nothing. Sweet FA

And look what as happened in the last few days, 3 by-elections on the 15th Labour hold 2 won 1 take that into account and the Respect win, a general strike now would finish this government off and be force to call an early election, or the Liberals could switch sides and going into a coalition with Labour, which also will force the Torys to go to early election.
There are 3 more by-election on the 29th which 1 is a Tory seat.
Yes I do know part of the Socialist Today Mag is partly on line, and you need to reread it again there is part of it up.

southy wrote:

peenut81 wrote:
Southy, i try and come to your rescue when you make some relevant points but you don't help yourself when you make stuff up.
There is no 2012 Green Party Manifesto.
pg 35 of the 2010 manifesto refers to nuclear power and peak oil.
If you meant the London mayor election the manifesto is only 16 pages long.
I joined the Green Party 2 years ago as being the closest to an anti-capitalist party as exists in this country. I stand by that judgement today.

Sorry wrong page peenut.
Page 32 of the Manifesto:
"End the corrupting effects of Trade Union donations to political parties,and bring in a fair system of state funding."
If you said Socialist Green I would beleive you in saying anti-capitalist, but the Green party is all for Capitalism just not on the same scale as the Labour and Tory party

.. ah! Socialist Green. Yet another Trotskyist deception.

Why is it Trots are so ashamed of the word Trotskyist that you are always unable to ever use this accurate political label in the titles of your (many, many) factious and splintered organisations?

Freefinker you need to look for this bit.
Copy and paste.

The Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC) Steering Committee has agreed a draft policy platform, outlined below, to contest the local council elections that will take place in May 2012, in 158 councils in England and all councils in Wales.

Heres part of it, copy and paste

When faced with government cuts to council funding, councils should refuse to implement the cuts. We will support councils which in the first instance use their reserves and prudential borrowing powers to avoid passing them on - while arguing that the best way to mobilise the mass campaign that is necessary to defeat the cuts is to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community and demands that the government makes up the shortfall.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

.. ah!, April next year you say.

You mean after the General Election?

Remember, back in May/June 2010 you were assuring us, many, many times that the coalition would fall apart by the end of 2012 at the very latest.

And as for your "needs budget program" and the Trotskyist rag Socialism Today. You do know all their recent editions are on line, don't you?

Just looked through both the April and May 2012 editions. Know what? Nothing. Sweet FA

And look what as happened in the last few days, 3 by-elections on the 15th Labour hold 2 won 1 take that into account and the Respect win, a general strike now would finish this government off and be force to call an early election, or the Liberals could switch sides and going into a coalition with Labour, which also will force the Torys to go to early election.
There are 3 more by-election on the 29th which 1 is a Tory seat.
Yes I do know part of the Socialist Today Mag is partly on line, and you need to reread it again there is part of it up.

.. ah, the general strike. It aint going to happen, is it?

While the Respect win was spectacular, the one Lab gain of a marginal seat is hardly a political earthquake, is it?

You do live in a very deluded world. So, were you wrong about the coalition failing by the end of 2012? Yes, no?

As for your reference to 'Needs Budget Program' in Socialist Today – could you point it out a little more precisely, please?

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

peenut81 wrote:
Southy, i try and come to your rescue when you make some relevant points but you don't help yourself when you make stuff up.
There is no 2012 Green Party Manifesto.
pg 35 of the 2010 manifesto refers to nuclear power and peak oil.
If you meant the London mayor election the manifesto is only 16 pages long.
I joined the Green Party 2 years ago as being the closest to an anti-capitalist party as exists in this country. I stand by that judgement today.

Sorry wrong page peenut.
Page 32 of the Manifesto:
"End the corrupting effects of Trade Union donations to political parties,and bring in a fair system of state funding."
If you said Socialist Green I would beleive you in saying anti-capitalist, but the Green party is all for Capitalism just not on the same scale as the Labour and Tory party

.. ah! Socialist Green. Yet another Trotskyist deception.

Why is it Trots are so ashamed of the word Trotskyist that you are always unable to ever use this accurate political label in the titles of your (many, many) factious and splintered organisations?

are not all organisation splintered, just look how much the right wing are splintered organisation.
The use of Trotskyist is a not an accurated political label, even lo it be more of a compliment to be called one, because here was just one man of many of peace and change though the majority people who help to give the majority the vote for the very first time.

I can't wait for the trough to run out of feed and for the pigs to start eating each other.

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

.. ah!, April next year you say.

You mean after the General Election?

Remember, back in May/June 2010 you were assuring us, many, many times that the coalition would fall apart by the end of 2012 at the very latest.

And as for your "needs budget program" and the Trotskyist rag Socialism Today. You do know all their recent editions are on line, don't you?

Just looked through both the April and May 2012 editions. Know what? Nothing. Sweet FA

And look what as happened in the last few days, 3 by-elections on the 15th Labour hold 2 won 1 take that into account and the Respect win, a general strike now would finish this government off and be force to call an early election, or the Liberals could switch sides and going into a coalition with Labour, which also will force the Torys to go to early election.
There are 3 more by-election on the 29th which 1 is a Tory seat.
Yes I do know part of the Socialist Today Mag is partly on line, and you need to reread it again there is part of it up.

.. ah, the general strike. It aint going to happen, is it?

While the Respect win was spectacular, the one Lab gain of a marginal seat is hardly a political earthquake, is it?

You do live in a very deluded world. So, were you wrong about the coalition failing by the end of 2012? Yes, no?

As for your reference to 'Needs Budget Program' in Socialist Today – could you point it out a little more precisely, please?

That one more seat win for Labour is enough now to get a vote of no confidence in the house of commons. And a general Strike now will push the Lib/Dems back benchers in a vote of no confidence, and it will also cause a number of Tory back benchers that no longer trust Cameron in abstaining (to many Tory MP's want to see the back of Cameron), You need to remember the Torys are a minority Government and when they came into the house of lords that margin for a no confidence vote was to fine of a line so the Torys change the goal posts making it more in there favour to win, well now that favour to win a no confidence vote as gone.
its not the end of the year yet now is it, a day in politics is a long one.
As for the need budget bit i copy and paste a bit for you.

southy wrote:
Freefinker you need to look for this bit.
Copy and paste.

The Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition (TUSC) Steering Committee has agreed a draft policy platform, outlined below, to contest the local council elections that will take place in May 2012, in 158 councils in England and all councils in Wales.

Heres part of it, copy and paste

When faced with government cuts to council funding, councils should refuse to implement the cuts. We will support councils which in the first instance use their reserves and prudential borrowing powers to avoid passing them on - while arguing that the best way to mobilise the mass campaign that is necessary to defeat the cuts is to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community and demands that the government makes up the shortfall.

.. and you make that into a 'Needs Budget Program'?

Just because the word 'needs' is positioned four words after the word 'budget' does not make it into the huge edifice you have been going on about for weeks.

However, when you look at all the words you reproduce it's just the same old "No Cuts" slogan, isn’t it? It’s not a workable policy or budget proposal, is it? As in “demand that the government makes up the shortfall.” Yea, right; they’ll do that, won’t they?

You see, it’s the same old story. If you know you are unelectable you can make up the most ridiculous policies that totally fail to actually grasp the economic realities of the local council, the national government and the planet as a whole.

Yes, I would definitely vote for a bunch of bananas before I would ever consider putting a cross next to your name or those of your fellow delusionists.

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:

Cyber__Fug wrote:

southy wrote:

freefinker wrote:

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

.. well I can go along with a lot of that – accommodation block, free public transport and less salary.

However, you fail to deal with the costs of constituency office and its staffing. You can't expect MP's to pay for this out of their halved salary, as well as doing all the secretarial work themselves.

Yet again you show your political naivety when it actually comes to matters practical for elected politicians. But then, as your politics consists mainly of slogans and impossible utopian positions, you are as likely of being elected to any public position as a bunch of bananas.

Get back to the way it was, the MP done that work and not leave it to others to do. and when they was needed the it came out of party funds and not tax payers funds, and halfing MP's wages will still be a 1/3rd more than most people will earn.

And talk about about a bunch bananas take a read of page 35 of the Green party manifest of 2012, and the Greens try and pass them selfs off as a working class party

Isn't it funny that you can give direct and accurate information about that but you cannot give accurate information about something that you claim to have been included in the Socialist Party and the TUSC manifestos ?

Needs Budget Program ? I still can't find it !!

But I have and in the same way, told you where to look, and the Needs Budget is for local governments / Councils and is smaller than for manifest for national government.
Think you find some of it in the magazine called Socialism today in the april/may issues there are small veriations around the country but basiclly remains the same, so if you wait till April next year then look it will be near the very front when other councils will be heading for elections.
But when you do find it, the page that will interest you the most will be on pages 5 to 7.

.. ah!, April next year you say.

You mean after the General Election?

Remember, back in May/June 2010 you were assuring us, many, many times that the coalition would fall apart by the end of 2012 at the very latest.

And as for your "needs budget program" and the Trotskyist rag Socialism Today. You do know all their recent editions are on line, don't you?

Just looked through both the April and May 2012 editions. Know what? Nothing. Sweet FA

And look what as happened in the last few days, 3 by-elections on the 15th Labour hold 2 won 1 take that into account and the Respect win, a general strike now would finish this government off and be force to call an early election, or the Liberals could switch sides and going into a coalition with Labour, which also will force the Torys to go to early election.
There are 3 more by-election on the 29th which 1 is a Tory seat.
Yes I do know part of the Socialist Today Mag is partly on line, and you need to reread it again there is part of it up.

.. ah, the general strike. It aint going to happen, is it?

While the Respect win was spectacular, the one Lab gain of a marginal seat is hardly a political earthquake, is it?

You do live in a very deluded world. So, were you wrong about the coalition failing by the end of 2012? Yes, no?

As for your reference to 'Needs Budget Program' in Socialist Today – could you point it out a little more precisely, please?

That one more seat win for Labour is enough now to get a vote of no confidence in the house of commons. And a general Strike now will push the Lib/Dems back benchers in a vote of no confidence, and it will also cause a number of Tory back benchers that no longer trust Cameron in abstaining (to many Tory MP's want to see the back of Cameron), You need to remember the Torys are a minority Government and when they came into the house of lords that margin for a no confidence vote was to fine of a line so the Torys change the goal posts making it more in there favour to win, well now that favour to win a no confidence vote as gone.
its not the end of the year yet now is it, a day in politics is a long one.
As for the need budget bit i copy and paste a bit for you.

Come on all you brothers and sisters, southy has called for a general strike. Jump to it.

Freefinker

"to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program.
or is that beyond your under standing

southy wrote:
Freefinker

"to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program.
or is that beyond your under standing

And if you attended the Southampton Council Budget meetings in the last 2 years you would of heard Nick C giving out the out line to a needs budget to the council on the council chamber floor, giving this city an alternative choice to a budget that did not mean having cuts in services, jobs or wages.
We did not get any other alternative budgets from any other party apart from the ruling party. and which political partys took part in the local elections the First, Independant, Greens, BNP, Lib/Dems, Labour, TUSC and the Torys, why is it, its only the ruling party and the TUSC that presented a form of budget when all partys that took part in the elections should present one to the Council chambers.
Just go's to show who doing all the work out there.

I hope you can sleep at night John, do the right thing give the flat up and live in your own.and just maybe you may get some votes.

southy wrote:
Freefinker "to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program. or is that beyond your under standing

So the actual phrase 'Needs Budget Program' is one you've made up.

southy wrote:

southy wrote: Freefinker "to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program. or is that beyond your under standing

And if you attended the Southampton Council Budget meetings in the last 2 years you would of heard Nick C giving out the out line to a needs budget to the council on the council chamber floor, giving this city an alternative choice to a budget that did not mean having cuts in services, jobs or wages. We did not get any other alternative budgets from any other party apart from the ruling party. and which political partys took part in the local elections the First, Independant, Greens, BNP, Lib/Dems, Labour, TUSC and the Torys, why is it, its only the ruling party and the TUSC that presented a form of budget when all partys that took part in the elections should present one to the Council chambers. Just go's to show who doing all the work out there.

Southy, you have quite blatantly copy/ paste this and now passing it off as your own. There is not enough spelling mistakes and bad grammar for you to have written this, and it sort of makes sense, so there is now way you’ve written it.

I dont understand a set of rules that permits an MP not to claim second mortgage for interest purposes but then permits them to rent out their second property and obtain a third property for renting purposes and claim on that.

Furthermore I dont suppose John can tell me why he just doesn't commute up there each and every day like I had to do in 1998 for a salary of £16,000 per anumn.

He could be in Westminster by 09.10 if he went up on South West Trains leaving Southampton Central at 07.30. Lets say the rent on the property he inhabits is £250.00 a week. Thats about £12,000 a year. I am sure a season ticket valid for a year is not that much. Southampton is not that far from the centre of London so I think its a bit insulting to think that it cannot be done - I am very disappointed to see that this is going on especially as I have previously said that John is a good constituency MP. Very disappointing state of affairs.

rich the stitch wrote:

southy wrote:
Freefinker "to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program. or is that beyond your under standing

So the actual phrase 'Needs Budget Program' is one you've made up.

.. it's what I've been saying all along.

He made it up.

Met this guy at a birthday party a while ago. Seeing the way he was chomping down at the buffet this news comes as no surprise.

southy wrote:

southy wrote:
Freefinker

"to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program.
or is that beyond your under standing

And if you attended the Southampton Council Budget meetings in the last 2 years you would of heard Nick C giving out the out line to a needs budget to the council on the council chamber floor, giving this city an alternative choice to a budget that did not mean having cuts in services, jobs or wages.
We did not get any other alternative budgets from any other party apart from the ruling party. and which political partys took part in the local elections the First, Independant, Greens, BNP, Lib/Dems, Labour, TUSC and the Torys, why is it, its only the ruling party and the TUSC that presented a form of budget when all partys that took part in the elections should present one to the Council chambers.
Just go's to show who doing all the work out there.

.. right, OK, we now know YOU made up the phrase. A 'Needs Budget Program' is quite a good phrase as well, I’ll give you that.

But I'm sure if you closely inspected the manifestos of the Tories, NuLab, etc. you would find statements with a similar message to your “to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community”. It’s standard political waffle. So, nothing at all revolutionary there.

But, we have been through the TUSC policies and commitments before, haven’t we? Remember, it’s: -

“Oppose all cuts to council jobs, services, pay and conditions.
Reject increases in council tax, rent and service charges to compensate for government cuts.
When faced with government cuts to council funding, councils should refuse to implement the cuts”.

Now I have challenged you several times to actually tell us HOW you will pay the teachers, refuse collectors, social workers, etc. when the cash runs out. And run out it will as the main paymasters of local government, Eric Pickles and HMG, ARE cutting the money, year on year, that all councils receive.

It’s an inevitability there will be a cash shortfall if TUSC’s ‘No Cuts’ slogan is actually adopted as policy. But time after time after time you refuse to answer this simple question – where’s the money coming from?

So, your 'Needs Budget Program' is a useless façade. It’s just another simile for ‘No Cuts’ – a slogan you have been totally unable to economically and fiscally defend or explain.

Stillness wrote:
Met this guy at a birthday party a while ago. Seeing the way he was chomping down at the buffet this news comes as no surprise.

Does it come a suprise that there are 31 others !!!
.
Quote:- At least 32 MPs have been found to be claiming rent for second homes on their expenses while simultaneously letting out property nearby, an investigation reveals.
.
Mostly all Tories

Lone Ranger. wrote:

Stillness wrote:
Met this guy at a birthday party a while ago. Seeing the way he was chomping down at the buffet this news comes as no surprise.

Does it come a suprise that there are 31 others !!!
.
Quote:- At least 32 MPs have been found to be claiming rent for second homes on their expenses while simultaneously letting out property nearby, an investigation reveals.
.
Mostly all Tories

No surprise at all. Those with the most have the most to fear loosing so they devote their lives to protecting it and collecting more. A bit of a hollow existence when you think about it. A life ruled by fear.

Stillness wrote:
Met this guy at a birthday party a while ago. Seeing the way he was chomping down at the buffet this news comes as no surprise.
Does it come a suprise that there are 31 others !!!
.
Quote:- At least 32 MPs have been found to be claiming rent for second homes on their expenses while simultaneously letting out property nearby, an investigation reveals.
.
Mostly all Tories

Yes the Tories are wrong and so is Denham, more local shame for Labour, what an example to our children.

southy wrote:
Freefinker

"to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program.
or is that beyond your under standing

Thanks for eventually coming clean, so it was made up then. There was no actual 'Needs budget Program'.

Credibility rating = 0.

Shoong wrote:

southy wrote:
Freefinker

"to set a budget that meets the needs of the local community"= a needs budget program.
or is that beyond your under standing

Thanks for eventually coming clean, so it was made up then. There was no actual 'Needs budget Program'.

Credibility rating = 0.

.. 0? - that high?
I'd put it well in the minus department.

southy wrote:
Time that the MP's wages was cut in half, expenses sheet taking away, and build a block of flats near government for the MP's to live in, traveling free on public transport, so if any MP wants to live else where they can do, and if they want to travel by other means they can do that to, but they will need to pay for it for them selfs and not out of tax payers money, and the same with the Lords.

Half agree. MPs should have a generous salary, I see no problem with that. But yes, build MP accommodation near Parliament, that will get rid of any chance they have to fiddle their expenses into paying their mortgage off. I don't even care if they're luxury apartments with gold taps, just give them somewhere to stay near Parliament, and their own living arrangements are their own affairs and their own expense.